Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: xerces8 on January 02, 2011, 04:10:38 PM
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Hi! With 3TB hard drives out, I am wondering, what is the maximum size Amiga can handle (with appropriate patches and file systems) ? Regards, David
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hi! With 3tb hard drives out, i am wondering, what is the maximum size amiga can handle (with appropriate patches and file systems) ?
2TB
[random stuff here to make it possible to post 2TB in capitals]
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What setup is capable of 2 TB, and what AmigaOS version does it require?
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With SmartFileSystem Version 1.277 the max HD size is in fact 64TB... :)
I use it myself and have tested it on OS3.0 / 3.1 / 3.5 / 3.9 & 4.0... :)
The biggest HD I have tried so for is 1TB, I've never had any problems with SFS or loss of data. The big plus of SFS is the ability to create single file sizes of 4GB or larger if you require them (DVD ISO images for example)... :)
This is something that other Amiga file systems can't do... :)
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SFS cannot increase the maximum the driver can access.
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SFS cannot increase the maximum the driver can access.
?
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SFS cannot increase the maximum the driver can access.
In what maximum can drivers access?
At least common ones, like A1200 builtin etc.
2 TB ?
Is there a limit in RDB? (last time I checked it looked like it can handle many more, but that was years ago. No, decades ago (http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/RDB-Informer).)
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Both IDE and SCSI can only directly handle 2^32 (or 4 billion) sectors, which is 2 terabytes (or 2,199,023,255,552 bytes).
Both IDE and SCSI are extensible, so they technically can talk to drives which are larger, but if the chips don't directly support the larger sizes, then the CPU must do all the work of preparing and sending commands which ask for sectors beyond the 32 bit boundary, which means it's possible but slower.
When it comes to the Amiga's IDE, the CPU already does all the work, so it wouldn't be any slower, but someone would have to update the IDE drivers.
I've personally run 2 TB drives on both the Amiga's IDE and on the CyberStorm PPC SCSI under NetBSD. I don't have any 3 TB drives yet, but when I get one I'll pop one in and see how it works.
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My brother says the max hard drive size on Windows XP is 2TB and that if I want to use 3TB drives I hafta switch to Windows 7. Is that true?
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Both IDE and SCSI can only directly handle 2^32 (or 4 billion) sectors, which is 2 terabytes (or 2,199,023,255,552 bytes).
No. It depends how big the sectors are.
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My brother says the max hard drive size on Windows XP is 2TB and that if I want to use 3TB drives I hafta switch to Windows 7. Is that true?
the easy answer is yes,move to w7 to avoid any issues and be at ease.
It can be done in XP (by using larger sectors) but sooner or later you will get hit by a rogue program that damages the file-system.
Tom UK
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I have just added a 2TB Seagate SATA drive to my A1200 with FastATA/Sata adapter, OS 3.9
The first problem I had was with OS 3.9 HDToolbox.
I recommend first installing the RDB with AmigaOS 3.9 BB2 HDToolbox. Once the RDB is written, do not add partitions yet as soon as you press the PARTITION button, HDToolbox attempts to automatically add hundreds of small partitions which eventually crashes the Amiga!
Go into HDInstTools, manually add a few parititions at the start of the hard disk, then save and reboot. Go back into OS 3.9 BB2 HDToolbox and resume adding partitions (no crashes this time)
I recommend using SFS1 v1.279 for the System partition (bootable) and SFS2 v1.279 with long filename support for all others. Keep the first bootable partition (System) under 2GB in size.
You should ensure before prepping the hard disk that you have a patched 64-bit scsi.device and 64-bit Filesystem to use on the hard disk.
Hope this helps!
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No. It depends how big the sectors are.
My apologies that I didn't put a sufficient number of "generally" disclaimers. You know what I mean - drives with sector sizes other than 512 bytes are exceedingly rare, plus the new drives which have 4k sectors start up in a mode where they deliver 512 byte sectors by default, plus since there are no native SCSI devices larger than 2 TB and SCSI to IDE or SATA adapters have not been updated yet to support 4k sectors, and since the IDE bus on the Amiga can't support sector sizes for hard drives other than 512 bytes without modifying drivers, the answer is still the same - 2TB.
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No. It depends how big the sectors are.
Incorrect, it does not depend on the sector size. Amiga can only address 2TB with trackdisk64 and NSD.
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I assume MorphOS on my EMac will handle a 2TB internal drive as well then?
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I have just added a 2TB Seagate SATA drive to my A1200 with FastATA/Sata adapter, OS 3.9
The first problem I had was with OS 3.9 HDToolbox.
I recommend first installing the RDB with AmigaOS 3.9 BB2 HDToolbox. Once the RDB is written, do not add partitions yet as soon as you press the PARTITION button, HDToolbox attempts to automatically add hundreds of small partitions which eventually crashes the Amiga!
Go into HDInstTools, manually add a few parititions at the start of the hard disk, then save and reboot. Go back into OS 3.9 BB2 HDToolbox and resume adding partitions (no crashes this time)
I recommend using SFS1 v1.279 for the System partition (bootable) and SFS2 v1.279 with long filename support for all others. Keep the first bootable partition (System) under 2GB in size.
You should ensure before prepping the hard disk that you have a patched 64-bit scsi.device and 64-bit Filesystem to use on the hard disk.
Hope this helps!
The reason for the "hundreds of small partitions" is because you have set the FastATAdriver to split, set it to NOSPLIT and you'll eliminate this problem... :)
Also I wouldn't recommend making the WorkBench partition SFS (best to keep it as FFS) as if anything does go wrong there are not tools for SFS to repair things properly... :)
I use a 1GB FFS partition for WorkBench and the rest of my main HD is split into 26 FFS system partitions ranging from 1GB to 4GB with the remaining partitions using SFS/2 partitions... :)
My Main drive (500GB IDE) can use SPLIT & NOSPILT at the same time thanks to a version of the FastATAdriver installed, which I rewrote myself...:)
(not sure why Elbox never fixed this problem themselves...:()
My slave drive (500GB IDE) is split into 2 250GB partitions as this is only used for storage and not booting
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Where does the 2 TB limit come from? trackdisk64 with 64 bit addressing should be able to handle more. Or SCSI direct. Just wondering....
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Where does the 2 TB limit come from? trackdisk64 with 64 bit addressing should be able to handle more. Or SCSI direct. Just wondering....
It comes from using a 32 bit value to count sectors (2^32 times 512 bytes per sector).
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Use a fileserver via network and be done with the problem ;)
Btw, SCSI read (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI_Read_Commands#Read_.2832.29) can handle 64-bit sector addressing.
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It comes from using a 32 bit value to count sectors (2^32 times 512 bytes per sector).
By whom?
trackdisk64 does not count sectors.
RDB uses like 3x32 bits.
SCSI can handle loads of sectors, ATA also.
And SFS can also handle more.
So where does the limit come from?
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Btw, SCSI read can handle 64-bit sector addressing.
Well, yes and no. Unless the ROMs in the later Amiga 4000T and A4091 were explicitly updated, SCSI on the Amiga would mean the WDC 33C93 chip which came on the A590, A2091, and Amiga 3000. This chip didn't support 16 byte commands, so it didn't support READ 16 or WRITE 16.
By whom?
trackdisk64 does not count sectors.
RDB uses like 3x32 bits.
SCSI can handle loads of sectors, ATA also.
And SFS can also handle more.
So where does the limit come from?
The limitation comes from the fact that the size of the LBA (logical block addressing) fields supported by the most common SCSI chips in Amigas is 32 bits.
IDE is another issue. Since the Amiga doesn't have an IDE chip to speak of (all the work is done by the CPU), it's possible to support arbitrarily large IDE drives, but the ROMs definitely don't support booting anything beyond the first bit of a drive (how far? 2 gigs? 4 gigs? 8 gigs? 128 gigs?) While AmigaOS can't use space beyond 128 gigs on the IDE bus (I've tried), NetBSD has no limits:
wd0 at atabus0 drive 0: <ST32000542AS>
wd0: drive supports 16-sector PIO transfers, LBA48 addressing
wd0: 1863 GB, 3876021 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 3907029168 sectors
wd0: drive supports PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133)
Get someone to update the IDE code, and you're all set!
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Also I wouldn't recommend making the WorkBench partition SFS (best to keep it as FFS) as if anything does go wrong there are not tools for SFS to repair things properly... :)
That's big nonsense IMHO.
1. the system benefits most if the boot partition has the fastest file system
2. the system partition can be recreated at any time from scratch because everything on the system partition is also contained on installation floppy disks and CDs.
The partitions with your creative work like artwork, self-made music, videos, saved games, documents, source codes etc. are the important ones which need to be kept safe and backed up regularly. The system partition is the least important part of a hard drive.
3. the system partition does not change very much. You can make a backup once after installation and if the partition dies, you can restore that one old backup and have everything back quickly. Just make sure that you've got a boot flopppy with all software needed to access the backup and the HDD.
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The limitation comes from the fact that the size of the LBA (logical block addressing) fields supported by the most common SCSI chips in Amigas is 32 bits.
Incorrect, it does not depend on the sector size. Amiga can only address 2TB with trackdisk64 and NSD.
These two contradict. (at least partly). :confused:
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These two contradict. (at least partly). :confused:
No, they don't contradict. They state different reasons for the same thing. I can't say that I know enough about trackdisk64 and NSD, but it's perfectly reasonable to think that they don't necessarily support more than 2^32 blocks. The 64 bitness is certainly a reference to complete drive size in bytes.
It's entirely possible that both reasons are valid and true.
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Why do you guys need such large hard drives on an Amiga computer? Is it ego? The hard drives on my Amiga computers are 2 GB or less, and I have never filled one up. Now granted, most of my Amiga files and software are on CD-ROMs and ZIP-100s.
I do have to admit, my Workbench 3.9 systems do not get used as much as my Workbench 1.3 systems. I have found that the more you try to make an Amiga act like a modern PC, the less fun it is. 3 TB, lol. I am starting to get the feeling that many of you guys actually do not like the Amiga computer anymore, because you are trying to change it too much. My favorite Amiga models are the Amiga 1000, 500, and the 2000, because they are real Amiga computers. Starting with the Amiga 3000, Commodore starting changing the Amiga, for the worse. That was the beginning of Commodore's downfall and the death of the Amiga computer. The new machines were lower quality and suffered from many problems. Hell, the Amiga 4000 was not even finished yet and Commodore ordered its release. 3 TB , lmfao.
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Why do you guys need such large hard drives on an Amiga computer? Is it ego? The hard drives on my Amiga computers are 2 GB or less, and I have never filled one up. Now granted, most of my Amiga files and software are on CD-ROMs and ZIP-100s.
I do have to admit, my Workbench 3.9 systems do not get used as much as my Workbench 1.3 systems. I have found that the more you try to make an Amiga act like a modern PC, the less fun it is.
well, sometimes its fun just to see what the upper limits are.
I use a 4 gig drive (flash card) and I can't imagine actually filling the thing
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Why do you guys need such large hard drives on an Amiga computer? Is it ego?
I can't speak for others, but I had a 2 TB drive in my Amiga 4000 because I use my Amiga to maintain backups of various sites, such as:
archive.info-mac.org
debian.lcs.mit.edu
ftp.apple.asimov.net
ftp.mayn.de
metalab.unc.edu
sunsite.unc.edu
http://www.aux-penelope.com
My A4000 is also an active Aminet mirror (us3.aminet.net).
Granted, my usage isn't typical, but it is interesting to learn the limits of older hardware as it helps inform the future. The fact that SCSI could support 2 TB drives back in the day when a large hard drive was 40 megabytes is pretty amazing.
There is such a concept as "enough". The 2 TB drive in my A4000 started showing issues after just a year of use, so I put it on the IDE bus and bought a hardware mirroring enclosure which has two 500 gig SATA laptop drives. With all of the archives in place, I'm using only 70% of the 500 gigs, so did I really need a 2 TB drive? No. Is it good to know that 2 TB drives will work? Certainly.
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Why do you guys need such large hard drives on an Amiga computer? Is it ego? The hard drives on my Amiga computers are 2 GB or less, and I have never filled one up. Now granted, most of my Amiga files and software are on CD-ROMs and ZIP-100s.
Availability.
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Why do you guys need such large hard drives on an Amiga computer?
Data storage.
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That's big nonsense IMHO.
1. the system benefits most if the boot partition has the fastest file system
2. the system partition can be recreated at any time from scratch because everything on the system partition is also contained on installation floppy disks and CDs.
The partitions with your creative work like artwork, self-made music, videos, saved games, documents, source codes etc. are the important ones which need to be kept safe and backed up regularly. The system partition is the least important part of a hard drive.
3. the system partition does not change very much. You can make a backup once after installation and if the partition dies, you can restore that one old backup and have everything back quickly. Just make sure that you've got a boot flopppy with all software needed to access the backup and the HDD.
Well your entitled to your opinion but in my case its totally wrong... :)
1. FFS system is actually faster than SFS on my system partition mainly due to the fact the FFS accesses the thousands of small icon .info files faster than SFS can... :)
2. As for the system partition being easy to re-create easily at any time, wrong again in my case. As I use the System Partition for all of my program/executable files as well as the system stuff. All other partitions are used for data and nothing more... :)
3. Wrong again... my system partition is constantly changing as I write more progs or install new utils... :)
SFS is quite simply the best alternative file system for the Amiga user who requires access to large HDs and single file sizes greater than 4GBs. It may not be the fastest filesystem around but for reliability and almost unlimited large storage, it can't be beat... :)
I can say this with complete confidence as I've spent decades testing and benchmarking all of my various Amigas to get the best possible speed out of them. I would go as far as to say there won't be many folk out there with an Amiga set up quite like mine as it's is very customised and contains a lot of software & patches I have written myself that no one else has as I never released them... :)
@ Selles
Odd to call it ego because some of us have a lot of data & stuff on our HDs, If you can get by on 2GB of storage then good for you... :)
My 2 500GB HDs are both over 90% full of both Amiga & Non Amiga data not to mention all my other HDs which are almost full as well... :)
It's nothing to do with ego it's quite simply down to 25 years of collecting and gathering all sorts of stuff which need somewhere to be stored and have easy access to... :)
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definitely don't support booting anything beyond the first bit of a drive (how far? 2 gigs? 4 gigs? 8 gigs? 128 gigs?) While AmigaOS can't use space beyond 128 gigs on the IDE bus (I've tried)
You need to update your scsi.device with latest aminet patches from Chris Hodges & company
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Why do you guys need such large hard drives on an Amiga computer?
Ham8 pr0n movies.
@Franko
I would go as far as to say there won't be many folk out there with an Amiga set up quite like mine as it's is very customised and contains a lot of software & patches I have written myself that no one else has as I never released them...
I bet you and Cosmos have fun patching stuff but be gentle with us and share some bits ;-)
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I bet you and Cosmos have fun patching stuff but be gentle with us and share some bits ;-)
Id love to share my own hacked/rewritten version of the FastATA driver but as it's still owned by Elbox and not PD or freeware then sorry but I can't... :(
(I did email Elbox a long time ago about it, but never received any reply...:()
Many folk have sent me PMs asking for my various patches that I have written but unfortunately they were written for my own particular Amigas hardware & software set up and unless you have a system identical to mine they most likely won't work... :(
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I wonder if we can set up a bounty for Franko to write driver and such for us, since it is obvious that you know a few things about hardware and programming?
New scsi.device maybe???? :D
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I wonder if we can set up a bounty for Franko to write driver and such for us, since it is obvious that you know a few things about hardware and programming?
New scsi.device maybe???? :D
Gawd no... money's the last thing I need... :lol:
Often thought about it and actually started it, that's where the problem lies, I start to code something and think "hey that's a neat piece of code" then next thing I've started to use that bit of code to write something else altogether... :)
Or I disassemble something like the FastATA Driver, make it better and then can't share it with others cos it's still copyright and I'm the only one getting to use it... :(
Must have several hundred bits of software that I never got round to finishing... :)
!
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awwwwwwww dang it!!
well then what about a scsi.device just for me ( promise not to give it to anyone.. :D (insert evil smile too).. )
That reminds me does anyone have the keyboard short cut for the emotes here???? (i meant for this site....... :P)
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I jumped through all kinds of hoops two years ago and I can't get my A2000 or A1200 to use more than 4 gig. My A2000 uses a GVP 040 with SCSI, and my A1200 uses IDE.
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I jumped through all kinds of hoops two years ago and I can't get my A2000 or A1200 to use more than 4 gig. My A2000 uses a GVP 040 with SCSI, and my A1200 uses IDE.
You have to manually enter meaningful cylinders, sectors per track, tracks per cylinder, and sectors per cylinder numbers into HDToolBox yourself most of the time.
Franko: Perhaps you'd be willing to contribute a tiny bit of your technical experience to help get the FastATA supported under NetBSD?
http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/port-amiga/2011/01/03/msg007507.html (http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/port-amiga/2011/01/03/msg007507.html)
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QUOTE=johnklos;604130]You have to manually enter meaningful cylinders, sectors per track, tracks per cylinder, and sectors per cylinder numbers into HDToolBox yourself most of the time.
Franko: Perhaps you'd be willing to contribute a tiny bit of your technical experience to help get the FastATA supported under NetBSD?
http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/port-amiga/2011/01/03/msg007507.html (http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/port-amiga/2011/01/03/msg007507.html)[/QUOTE]
I'd be happy to help if I can but don't have a clue what NetBSD is... :(
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Or I disassemble something like the FastATA Driver, make it better and then can't share it with others cos it's still copyright and I'm the only one getting to use it... :(
Elbox never cared much about copyrights, licenses and other legalities. Why must we?
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franko
You talk about "rewritting" software yet you dont know what NetBSD is????
You have no need of money?
I'd love to see some screenshots of your modded drivers... or some code sample
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franko
You talk about "rewritting" software yet you dont know what NetBSD is????
You have no need of money?
I'd love to see some screenshots of your modded drivers... or some code sample
Well with a stupid comment like that YOUR never gonna find out...:p
Why fcuk should me not knowing what NetBSD is have anything to do with me re-writing or coding software ???
And yes Im very well off thank you, a lack of hard cash has never been a problem for me and most likely never will be... :)
So with an attitude like yours your gonna be the last to know, plenty of other folk in my short time here can testify to my coding and knowledge of the Amiga,
As for you I have no need to prove anything to you, so toddle off matey... :p
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Ehhh... sorry if I'm not very friendly in this thread, but... who is the one that is going to put those 2Tb in his Miggy? (Just to know :))
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I would If i can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but right now having probs just get 40GB to work fully all the time with my A1200, may have to end up playing with the cylinders or maybe have about 9 <4GB drives.....
which reminds me (off topic) but when i do build my A4000 if have a GVP 4060 with scsi and a FASTATA IV (zorro III) which would be better to use? Also have indivision and Deneb for that A4000
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I would If i can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but right now having probs just get 40GB to work fully all the time with my A1200, may have to end up playing with the cylinders or maybe have about 9 <4GB drives.....
which reminds me (off topic) but when i do build my A4000 if have a GVP 4060 with scsi and a FASTATA IV (zorro III) which would be better to use? Also have indivision and Deneb for that A4000
Me too... :)
Two 2TB HDs should be enough to last me till my sell buy date... :)
(PM sent about your HD probs... :))
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I'd be happy to help if I can but don't have a clue what NetBSD is... :(
NetBSD is a free Unix operating system from Berkeley (the school). It's based off of 4.4BSD and its lineage goes back to the beginning of Unix in the 1970s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bsd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bsd)
I think RadosÅaw just needs some pointers about general setup of the FastATA and about interrupt handling versus polling, et cetera. Please take a look at the link and if you have some ideas, just shoot an email off to port-amiga@netbsd.org.
Thanks!
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Hey Franko
Just so you know its rather distasteful to make posts like "money is no object to me" quite distasteful.
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You have to manually enter meaningful cylinders, sectors per track, tracks per cylinder, and sectors per cylinder numbers into HDToolBox yourself most of the time.
Can you give me some quick tips on that? I have a 50 gig SCSI drive in my A2000 and a 20 gig IDE drive in my A1200.
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Hey Franko
Just so you know its rather distasteful to make posts like "money is no object to me" quite distasteful.
Don't talk keech pal... I never claimed to have any taste in the first place so if it's distasteful to you then that's tough luck mate you'r the one who mentioned my name and brought it up with your other snidey little remarks...
And I suppose your nasty little que jumping and me, me, me posts in the "Amiga 1200 collection for grabs" thread are not distasteful...
I'm in los angeles and would like yo buy all of
your amiga stuff for cash :) please respond with pm or call me
if you can.
No problem.. but like I said if you want to sell all in one go for cash no shipping i'm the guy :)
Uh.. excuse me but why would anyone want to box and ship this stuff to australia? are you mad i'm local?
Anyway crawl back under your rock mate before I drop me wallet on you which is stuffed full of more cash than you could ever dream of and flatten you with it... :lol:
Ooops... sorry... was that me being distasteful again
I worked damn hard for every penny and everything I own, so if me having loadsa money bothers you then follow my example... work hard and earn it...
Now stop bugging my happiness and go and play in the traffic... :)
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Don't talk keech pal... I never claimed to have any taste in the first place so if it's distasteful to you
Anyway crawl back under your rock mate before I drop me wallet on you which is stuffed full of more cash than you could ever dream of and flatten you with it... :lol:
Now stop bugging my happiness and go and play in the traffic... :)
Well you just proved you have absolutely no taste at all and now i"m sure you are full of sh8t and dont have what you say. Its quite obvious. I'm also taking it that you are very young and inexperienced in the real world. There are so many posers and talkers like you in the amiga community its funny. Luckily there are really cool,interesting and talented people as well.
As far as your programming goes i'd love to see any proof of anything.. You of course wont produce that becuase you are a tosser and full of crap.
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Well you just proved you have absolutely no taste at all and now i"m sure you are full of sh8t and dont have what you say. Its quite obvious. I'm also taking it that you are very young and inexperienced in the real world. There are so many posers and talkers like you in the amiga community its funny. Luckily there are really cool,interesting and talented people as well.
As far as your programming goes i'd love to see any proof of anything.. You of course wont produce that becuase you are a tosser and full of crap.
You sir are a total knobhead... :)
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yeah i'm a knobhead and i'm awaiting your proof of your programming skills.. why dont you just come clean and say you LIED?
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yeah i'm a knobhead and i'm awaiting your proof of your programming skills.. why dont you just come clean and say you LIED?
Gawd tenacious little bugger aren't you... :)
Look on Aminet mate or my own site and see for yourself, the only one round here telling porky pies is you mate and you'r doing it to yourself... :)
PS: anything else you demand I should prove to you, a picture of my 8 inch dick for example (course I could have lied and said it was 10 but I'm not in the habit of telling lies)... :rolleyes:
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oh geeze, here too? maybe you guys should meet
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oh geeze, here too? maybe you guys should meet
Look he's the one who started all this and then decided to stretch it into another thread, no idea what his problem is but I'm not going to let him say what he wants about me and not respond to his lies and accusations... sorry...
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@Franko, If you have started a suitable driver. Maybe you could publish what you have so that others may continue upon it?
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yeah i'm a knobhead and i'm awaiting your proof of your programming skills.. why dont you just come clean and say you LIED?
are you in a position to verify anyones programming skills?
PS: You got called a knobhead. Thats frikkin classic.
Knobhead.
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@Franko, If you have started a suitable driver. Maybe you could publish what you have so that others may continue upon it?
I think I already said that I never got round to finishing it, the reason was in the end it was much easier to disassemble the Elbox FastATA driver and fix a couple of thing in it and re-assemble it for my own personal use.
The problem with the FastATA driver though is it only works with the A1200s FastATA hardware from Elbox, they even do a different one for the A4000 version which I've never had a look at... :(
The one I began to write myself was being programmed around the 4xEIDE hardware so I have no idea if I were to go back and try to complete it if it would work with any of the other buffered interface boards... :)
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yeah i'm a knobhead and i'm awaiting your proof of your programming skills.. why dont you just come clean and say you LIED?
Just out of curiosity is there anyone that you haven't pissed off with your attitude Magnetic?
While Franko does nowhere near need me to defend him i have looked at his code and can say he knows what he is talking about so before you open you mouth next time think please..
Also please stop claim jumping (i too can cross thread) makes you look like a get.....
Have a great day
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It was the same thing with both Minimig and ArcadeReplay. It's "impossible" it's fake bla.bla.. instead of doing something oneself. Like looking at the number of transistors needed and available etc..
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Hey Franko
Just so you know its rather distasteful to make posts like "money is no object to me" quite distasteful.
While I see that Franko is quite happy with his station, I do not see that he was comparing himself to others in derogatory fashion. Should someone who has worked in their life to be able to rest easily be ashamed or vilified by others?
It all depends upon what you infer from such a statement. Money is no object for me either, and I am flat phuqn broke these days with only a little bit every so often to allow myself an indulgence.
Every so often Franko comes off sounding like a prick -- again, the inference being the responsibility of the receiving party -- but taken for what it is, his statement is innocuous. Some people may have been offended by what he said; some people may have just rolled their eyes; other people, like myself, may have read his post and just continued on.
I think the latter two might maintain a lower stress level.
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2 Tb ought to be enough for anyone. ;)
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2 Tb ought to be enough for anyone. ;)
I would be happy if I can get the 40 or 80 or 160Gb to work fully!!! (and that's the whole point although you can have large drives on Amiga's they are a pain to get functioning fully). Just did a calculation I would need 95GB for all my Amiga stuff but then again I don't have as much as some people. :D
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I would be happy if I can get the 40 or 80 or 160Gb to work fully!!!
Same here...
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What I did with OS 3.9: Installed. Put 9Gig, 18gig and 36 Gig HDs in. Used them, using FFS. No problems. Ever.
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What I did with OS 3.9: Installed. Put 9Gig, 18gig and 36 Gig HDs in. Used them, using FFS. No problems. Ever.
Did you manually enter the partition information?
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Of course, 2 or 3 partitions below 4 GB and 2 bigger past 4GB for data and games.
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Can you give me some quick tips on that? I have a 50 gig SCSI drive in my A2000 and a 20 gig IDE drive in my A1200.
In NetBSD is a program called factor which helps, but you can do it manually if you like. Let's take the 50 gig drive as an example. I used to have a ton of Seagate full height 3.5" 50 gig hard drives like the ST150176LC or LW, so your might be similar. This model has 97,693,755 total sectors. Factoring that we get:
97693755: 3 5 6512917
That doesn't break down nicely, so let's round down a bit. Let's try:
97693750: 2 5 5 5 5 5 7 7 11 29
So now we can create some numbers for sectors per track, tracks per cylinder, et cetera. A good general guideline is to have less than 10,000 tracks. I'll just take:
5 * 5 * 11 * 29 = 7975 cylinders
That leaves us with 12250 sectors per cylinder which we can break down as:
5 * 5 * 7 = 175 sectors per track and 2 * 5 * 7 = 70 tracks per cylinder.
In summary:
7975 cylinders
175 sectors per track
70 tracks per cylinder
12250 sectors per cylinder
As long as the total number of sectors doesn't exceed the total size of the drive, you're good to go.
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what do you guys put on your miggy hard drives to fill up all that space? :)
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Games from CD take quite a lot of space.
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Games from CD take quite a lot of space.
this is true. I guess I didn't figure there were that many.
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what do you guys put on your miggy hard drives to fill up all that space? :)
I have literally hundreds of gigabytes of 16 bit AIFF audio files I need to store as well as CD/DVD ISO Image files which need up to 8GB storage space per file not to mention GFX data and around 9000 ADF files... :)
That's the reason I need such big HDs on my Amigas... :)
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8gig files on an amiga ? Using what file system ?
As for the general theme of the thread though, I must say that Ive never had any major dramas using larger drives. The only exception I guess being the boot partition size being restricted to 4gig, but that's no major hassle for such a small OS. I really dislike having many partitions (I use 6 on a 320 gig drive including the 4 gig OS partition) and it was as easy as pie to set up using os3.9 hdtoolbox. Once the partitions where defined I just installed pfs3 (I dont like sfs for reasons that aren't really important here) and changed and created the pfs partitions. Was as easy as setting up partitions on any other more mainstream OS.
It's pretty easy to fill the space though. Nightlong alone is a few gig of space, Descent:freespace 500+meg, quake 1, quake2, Napalm, Earth2140, lots and lots of whdload installed games, development software, emulator rom images and lots more. Sure, amiga software is typically a lot more basic than software for other systems, but there's so much stuff out there that it's easy enough to use as much storage space as you can throw at it.
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8gig files on an amiga ? Using what file system?
SFS using SFS/2 partitions... In theory the programmer claims using SFS/2 partitions you can have a single file as large a your partition is, but the biggest single file size I have used is 8.2GB for dual layer DVD ISO images... :)
I too have never had problem setting up large HDs but from the amount of folk who have PMd me here in the past couple of weeks alone it seems most folk are having trouble setting up a large HD, which I'm currently trying to find an easy way to solve for them... :)
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NetBSD is a free Unix operating system from Berkeley (the school). It's based off of 4.4BSD and its lineage goes back to the beginning of Unix in the 1970s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bsd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bsd)
I think RadosÅaw just needs some pointers about general setup of the FastATA and about interrupt handling versus polling, et cetera. Please take a look at the link and if you have some ideas, just shoot an email off to port-amiga@netbsd.org.
Thanks!
Sorry... I missed your post due to the slight distraction that was going on here...
I've read the link you posted thanks, but to be honest I know absolutely nothing about unix and only code in 68K and how to write stuff for the Amiga, C64 & Vic20 and how their hardware works... :)
I don't think anything I know about the FastATA driver or hardware would be of any use to someone writing Unix... Sorry... :)
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Franko keeps shouting BANG, BANG , BANG BANG, because hes a gangsta.
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Incorrect, it does not depend on the sector size. Amiga can only address 2TB with trackdisk64 and NSD.
Hi,
PC's today can't even use 3TB HD's to boot with, from what I heard, you have to have a two drive system, one HD to install windows on (doesn't matter what size, just as long as it will fit all of windows on it) and then the 3TB drive formatted for a user disk. From what I understand to go to 3 TB you would need a 128 bit computer.
smerf (probably wrong on this, it is just something I heard at work)
Heck I am having trouble using a 60 gig hard drive on my Amiga. I don't think there is enough Amiga programs to fill it and if there is then they must have made some pretty huge Amiga programs later on.
smerf
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Well you just proved you have absolutely no taste at all and now i"m sure you are full of sh8t and dont have what you say. Its quite obvious. I'm also taking it that you are very young and inexperienced in the real world. There are so many posers and talkers like you in the amiga community its funny. Luckily there are really cool,interesting and talented people as well.
As far as your programming goes i'd love to see any proof of anything.. You of course wont produce that becuase you are a tosser and full of crap.
Hi,
@magnetic,
Listen Pal,
Franko, helped me with a lot of stuff here lately, and the only thing full of sh8t is you, because you don't know what you are talking about. I was having trouble with trying to load OS4 on my computer, and thanks to Franko it now works. He sent me a boot disk that really helped and straightened out my OS4.
The only thing wrong with Franko, is that he is to nice and courteous to some idiots like you. Franko has helped me out many times and if you could figure out how to get on his web site you would find out that he has a very nice site.
smerf
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PC's today can't even use 3TB HD's to boot with. From what I understand to go to 3 TB you would need a 128 bit computer.
Utter rubbish :)
My boot disk is a 3TB, single partition and it's working fine under Windows7 x64 and I've had RAID arrays before now much bigger than 3TB as boot drives.
BUT my motherboard has UEFI and not BIOS
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The number of misunderstandings seems mindboogling..
Onle men in green can use above 640 kB! :P
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I wouldn't boot with a big slow 3TB sata, no matter if it's in RAID or not.
SSD in RAID is another thing, but the transfer rate of a good SSD will always be twice as much as a 3TB sata, even if they make it go 10K rpm.
On the Amiga side, why would you mount a 2TB drive into any Amiga ?
If you manage to get a 40GB ide drive full, I'd like to see with what, and only Amiga programs, games and tools.
No mp3's, video files or photos, that doesn't count.
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On the Amiga side, why would you mount a 2TB drive into any Amiga ?
If you manage to get a 40GB ide drive full, I'd like to see with what, and only Amiga programs, games and tools.
No mp3's, video files or photos, that doesn't count.
I have my 80+20GB drives full on A1200. Around 30GB is mp3, but the rest is Amiga stuff. And if you won't count music, videos etc on PC, it wouldn't need that big HD's either...
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I dug out my A1200 last night and I forgot that I did get one partition working above 4 gig on it, but I was still unable to use more than about 12 gig on a 20 gig drive. I couldn't make that last partition any larger, and I couldn't add any partitions after the last one. But I have yet to try manually entering partition information.
It's my A2000 with 50 gig SCSI drive that really frustrates me. I can't get it to use more than 4 gig in any way shape or form. But again, I have yet to try manually entering partition information.
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From what I understand to go to 3 TB you would need a 128 bit computer.
I think it was already covered in this thread, but modern disks are accessed using sectors and 48-bit logical block addressing (LBA). Most disks use 512 byte sectors, and the master boot record (MBR) partitioning scheme stores partition information using 32-bit values:
(2^32)-1 * 512 = 2,199,023,255,040 = ~2 TiB
That's where the recent 2 TiB boundary was established. (Note that disks are sold using base 10 values, and 2 TB < 2 TiB, which is why 2 TB drives work just fine.) Newer schemes use larger sector values, e.g. 64-bit LBA and GUID partition tables (GPT) use 64-bit values:
(2^64)-1 * 512 = 144,115,188,075,855,360 = ~8 ZiB
That's a lot of storage, but it doesn't solve the problem for legacy systems. (And we'll hit that new limit faster than anyone thinks we will, I'm sure.) 512 byte sectors have never been a universal standard, but most hard disks use them. Newer disks use 4096 byte sectors* allowing for much larger drives in a 32-bit space:
(2^32)-1 * 4096 = 17,592,186,040,320 = ~16 TiB
It's already possible to reach that limit using current drives and controllers, e.g. a 6 x 3 TiB array.
The maximum number of bytes you can access in e.g. a file on most modern systems is
(2^64)-1 = 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 = ~16 EiB
Again, that's a big value, but the mainstream will reach that limit soon. Many fields are already struggling with it, particularly finance and the physical sciences.
File systems have different limitations as they're based on cluster sizes, and clusters are multiples of sectors.
* Most still emulate 512 byte sectors to support legacy systems.
(probably wrong on this, it is just something I heard at work)
Now you can go back to work and school your coworkers. ;-)
EDIT: With respect to AmigaOS, I think we should dump RDB and move to GPT. As far as I know, while RDB and MBR can live together, RDB and GPT cannot.
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@KatManDEW
maybe you need new ROM on that SCSI card. but, anyway, you should try PFS3ds first. I never had problems with it and large HDDs (IDE or SCSI).