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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 08:36:09 AM

Title: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 08:36:09 AM
In one of the AGA threads, a few people jumped in and mentioned they really enjoyed Breathless. So do I, and I am playing through it currently, so I thought it'd be nice to have a chat about it.

The ground rules:

Any comparison to Doom is forbidden. Thank you. That is all

So to kick things off, it ran okay but pretty sluggish on my old accelerator (030/25, 8 megs RAM). With my new ACA1230/56, it runs really well. Max screen size is still too slow but you can get a good size one or two steps below, and 1x1 pixels and still play at a good pace.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 08:43:48 AM
Yep, I loved Breathless too. I'm going to flaut your rules about comparing with Doom though. Yes Breathless was a very different game: techno-action rather than horror, so had a totally different atmosphere. But I never thought it would run on my 040 A1200 after trying Doom and finding it unplayable and ugly.

Nonetheless I took a chance and bought the floppy version of Breathless in a sale, and I was totally blown away. Great graphics, amazing huge levels, smooth movement in full screen, and proper 3D with looking!!! Breathless was one of the few games I played all the way through as I was totally gripped by it.

As I mentioned in the AGA thread, the only think that disappointed me about Breathless was that all the enemies were robots. Robots destroying other robots doesn't quite have the same atmosphere as humans killing aliens/demons/other humans ;) I wonder if anybody could mod Breathless to change the enemy graphics?

Sorry for the Doom comparison, but I think it was necessary in demonstrating the technical achievement of Breathless.

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 08:45:49 AM
Quote from: motorollin;602349
Yep, I loved Breathless too. I'm going to flaut your rules about comparing with Doom though. Yes Breathless was a very different game: techno-action rather than horror, so had a totally different atmosphere. But I never thought it would run on my 040 A1200 after trying Doom and finding it unplayable and ugly.

Nonetheless I took a chance and bought the floppy version of Breathless in a sale, and I was totally blown away. Great graphics, amazing huge levels, smooth movement in full screen, and proper 3D with looking!!! Breathless was one of the few games I played all the way through as I was totally gripped by it.

As I mentioned in the AGA thread, the only think that disappointed me about Breathless was that all the enemies were robots. Robots destroying other robots doesn't quite have the same atmosphere as humans killing aliens/demons/other humans ;) I wonder if anybody could mod Breathless to change the enemy graphics?

Sorry for the Doom comparison, but I think it was necessary in demonstrating the technical achievement of Breathless.

--
moto


well, okay :) I wanted to avoid the "wah wah doom killed the amiga" garbage. So you are okay mate.

And I agree, the graphics are gorgeous. Very crisp and sharp, which is an area where AB3D and Gloom definately had room to improve, great as those are.

The music is amazing too. The game really reminds of the Terminator movies.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: runequester;602350
well, okay :) I wanted to avoid the "wah wah doom killed the amiga" garbage. So you are okay mate.

I think that Breathless quite clearly proved that the Amiga was capable of its own Doom. So I don't think Doom killed the Amiga at all.

;)

Quote from: runequester;602350
And I agree, the graphics are gorgeous. Very crisp and sharp, which is an area where AB3D and Gloom definately had room to improve, great as those are.

I completely agree, the graphics in Gloom are terrible. Though it was fairly fun to play for a little while, due to its speed. Breathless wasn't as fast IIRC, but it didn't need to be; I remember it being more a creeping around game rather than a running-around-making-crowds-of-skinheads-explode game ;)

Quote from: runequester;602350
The music is amazing too. The game really reminds of the Terminator movies.

IIRC I played without music. I'll have to dig out my copy of Breathless and reinstall it on my A1200 :)

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 08:56:00 AM
Quote from: motorollin;602352
I think that Breathless quite clearly proved that the Amiga was capable of its own Doom. So I don't think Doom killed the Amiga at all.

;)


I completely agree, the graphics in Gloom are terrible. Though it was fairly fun to play for a little while, due to its speed. Breathless wasn't as fast IIRC, but it didn't need to be; I remember it being more a creeping around game rather than a running-around-making-crowds-of-skinheads-explode game ;)


IIRC I played without music. I'll have to dig out my copy of Breathless and reinstall it on my A1200 :)

--
moto


The thing with Gloom is.. its basically a 2D shooter like Chaos Engine, but in 3D. Its fun, but its a straight up blaster (with lots of guts).

And yeah, you're right. You can dash in Breathless but you really need to take it slow, get the drop on the enemies a few at a time, and avoid getting cornered.
I love that they'll come after you too, if you bail. No mercy from the robot overlords :D
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 08:58:57 AM
Quote from: runequester;602354
The thing with Gloom is.. its basically a 2D shooter like Chaos Engine, but in 3D. Its fun, but its a straight up blaster (with lots of guts).

Agreed. It's basically a different type of game, and the resemblance in 3D effect is purely cosmetic ;)

Quote from: runequester;602354
And yeah, you're right. You can dash in Breathless but you really need to take it slow, get the drop on the enemies a few at a time, and avoid getting cornered.
I love that they'll come after you too, if you bail. No mercy from the robot overlords :D

Yeah! Robots have no fear of death :)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 28, 2010, 08:59:15 AM
We could use a few SA-style Let's play-threads. I was thinking about making one about Genetic Species.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: whabang;602356
We could use a few SA-style Let's play-threads. I was thinking about making one about Genetic Species.


I would LOVE that. I need to reinstall that game, and see if I can get AHI to work this time around.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 09:02:43 AM
Quote from: whabang;602356
We could use a few SA-style Let's play-threads. I was thinking about making one about Genetic Species.


Unfortunately I never got Genetic Species to run at a reasonable speed/quality, even on an 060+RTG, which was a shame as I'd read amazing things about the graphics in that game.

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 09:03:48 AM
Quote from: motorollin;602359
Unfortunately I never got Genetic Species to run at a reasonable speed/quality, even on an 060+RTG, which was a shame as I'd read amazing things about the graphics in that game.

--
moto


When I had it installed on my old system, it didn't run too bad. Was playable in any event, but since I couldn't get sound to work, I ended up deleting it.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 28, 2010, 09:10:48 AM
Quote from: motorollin;602359
Unfortunately I never got Genetic Species to run at a reasonable speed/quality, even on an 060+RTG, which was a shame as I'd read amazing things about the graphics in that game.

--
moto
It runs like a charm under UAE. :p
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 09:27:37 AM
Quote from: runequester;602360
When I had it installed on my old system, it didn't run too bad. Was playable in any event, but since I couldn't get sound to work, I ended up deleting it.


Ahh well, I'll have enough to keep me entertained with Breathless today :)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 09:28:09 AM
Quote from: whabang;602361
It runs like a charm under UAE. :p


Blasphemy!!! :lol:
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 28, 2010, 09:36:46 AM
Well, if I'm to do a Let's play-thread, I want video clips and screenshots! ;)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: Karlos on December 28, 2010, 09:58:37 AM
The thing which bothered me most about breathless was the "by blocks" level design. It was, essentially, Wolfenstein 3D extended vertically. However, I recognise that this simplicity was in no small part responsible for it's speed.

Breathless was the first AGA FPS (you thought I was going to say game-that-shall-not-be-mentioned clone, didn't you?) that really demonstrated that with appropriate conversion you could have a scalable 1x1 pixelmode engine. On my 040, it was playable at a reasonable size in 1x1.

From a technical achievement perspective though, no amiga-bred FPS game comes close to the AlienBreed 3D game for me though. Pity that TKG was so rushed, it could have been so much more.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: yssing on December 28, 2010, 10:22:47 AM
Well Breathless runs great on my system. One of the things I find was really great, was the foggy areas, which I don't think the other games had.
Doom didnt had fog AFAIR. The only problem I ever had with Breathless, wass that, though you could control the player with the mouse, you couldnt look up and down using the mouse. But the graphics, the sound, the gameplay, well it left me breathless..

And I so wish for a leveleditor for breathless.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: mailman on December 28, 2010, 10:24:01 AM
At first I didn't like Breathless. It was way too difficult for me and I just simply put it back on the shelf. When my adventure with AB3D began and I really enjoyed it, I figured out that maybe I should give another try to Breathless. I did and I saw another side of this beautiful game. Although I still considered it as a very difficult game I managed to get through and learnt how to play. Right now, I consider Breathless as one of the greatest Amiga achievements of all times. Amazing graphics, atmospheric tunes, great gameplay. Some might say that the opponents seem to be little out of this planet and they move a bit awkward but after all you have to just kill them not to marry them.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: fishy_fiz on December 28, 2010, 10:27:30 AM
Im going to be a party pooper here and say that I wasnt particularly keen on Breathless. The graphics where ok, but there was very little color variation. It was basically grey and yellow. All this said it looked quite ok and ran fairly well, but for me the gameplay was quite sterile and that's where it let me down. I wanted to like it, as much as anything so I could show my friends who'd made the jump to PC that the amiga can do FPS games, but it was more engine than game for my tastes. Maybe not the the extent of something like FEARS, but it never made the transition to game as much as something like AB3d. Even Nemac IV, which was also only average felt more immersive.

To each his own though.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: whabang;602364
Well, if I'm to do a Let's play-thread, I want video clips and screenshots! ;)


There are some nice videos on YouTube :)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 10:33:02 AM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;602376
Im going to be a party pooper here and say that I wasnt particularly keen on Breathless. The graphics where ok, but there was very little color variation. It was basically grey and yellow.


Fair point. As for the gameplay, I don't remember Breathless being sterile as you say, but perhaps that's the Rose tinted specs talking. I'll have another go at it today and see what I think of it now.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 28, 2010, 11:18:39 AM
Quote from: motorollin;602377
There are some nice videos on YouTube :)
Well, I did say SA-style Let's play, didn't I?

Link for the ignorant masses (http://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=191)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 01:04:34 PM
Quote from: whabang;602391
Well, I did say SA-style Let's play, didn't I?

Link for the ignorant masses (http://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=191)

Oh right... I've never heard of that site before, which I guess qualifies me as a member of the ignorant masses ;)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: AmigaNG on December 28, 2010, 01:54:12 PM
Shameless plug
Amiga FPS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qd4BW4nNI0

Anyway on to Breathless, i remember a moment when you when down this massive lift and bads guys are shooting at you all over the place, it was a good game.

But for me the best first person shooter on the Amiga had to be Alien Breed, just the sound of the shotgun going off and then the next thing your here was a scream and splat. A great game shame it didn't have 1x1 pixels option. The squeal was just not as good, but technically impressive.

I remember when I went to the shops to get my first doom clone game on the Amiga and there was Alien Breed 3d, Gloom or Fears, I stupidly picked Fears only because it said it had a level editor in it, which it did and was more fun making 3d levels in that then playing the game.

However I must say who ever coded Fears must of been pretty good, full screen on a standard A1200 and not that bad speed.

PS: Genetic Species not running quick enough on 060 with RTS, I find that hard to believe, it run well on my amiga with just aga and 040.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 02:17:46 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;602423
PS: Genetic Species not running quick enough on 060 with RTS, I find that hard to believe, it run well on my amiga with just aga and 040.

I was lying!
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 02:30:37 PM
Well I've just tried Breathless on my 030 A1200 and unfortunately it wasn't particularly smooth :(
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 28, 2010, 02:57:39 PM
Quote from: motorollin;602432
Well I've just tried Breathless on my 030 A1200 and unfortunately it wasn't particularly smooth :(
Lying again, are you?

Also, the definition of "smooth" has changed quite considerably the last 15 years.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 02:59:57 PM
Quote from: whabang;602440
Lying again, are you?

Clearly ;)

Quote from: whabang;602440
Also, the definition of "smooth" has changed quite considerably the last 15 years.

True, but I think my memories of Breathless were from when I had an 060, so the game performed much better even in full screen with 1x1 pixels.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: Hattig on December 28, 2010, 03:41:41 PM
Quote from: motorollin;602432
Well I've just tried Breathless on my 030 A1200 and unfortunately it wasn't particularly smooth :(


Does the game have a 2x1 rendering mode - that would halve the complex calculations part of the ray casting...
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 28, 2010, 04:33:40 PM
Set the window size to one or two steps below the max, and it should run pretty good on an 030. At least it does for me
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: fishy_fiz on December 28, 2010, 04:45:43 PM
If I recall correctly I played it on a blizz mk4 50mhz '030 and to look at it, it ran pretty well 1x1 in a step or 2 down from full screen, but really needed 2x1 for more accurate controls (the game seems to put gfx updates before input if I recall correctly).
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 06:14:35 PM
Quote from: Hattig;602458
Does the game have a 2x1 rendering mode - that would halve the complex calculations part of the ray casting...


It does, but then it won't be as pretty ;)

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 28, 2010, 06:18:00 PM
Quote from: runequester;602475
Set the window size to one or two steps below the max, and it should run pretty good on an 030. At least it does for me


Quote from: fishy_fiz;602480
If I recall correctly I played it on a blizz mk4 50mhz '030 and to look at it, it ran pretty well 1x1 in a step or 2 down from full screen, but really needed 2x1 for more accurate controls (the game seems to put gfx updates before input if I recall correctly).


You're both right - a couple of sizes below full screen is enough to get pretty smooth movement. The biggest problem is that controls are not really smooth enough, making it very difficult to aim. This makes it a bit annoying when you're trying to turn to fire at an enemy, and you can only shoot either side of it. I'll give it a try on 2x1 and see what effect that has on the controls.

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: Cammy on December 29, 2010, 12:01:48 AM
If you do start a series of threads discussing separate games, can you please not act like every 13 year old on the internet by copying an internet meme like "Let's Play" and think of a more original and less annoying title?
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 29, 2010, 12:52:50 AM
Quote from: Cammy;602549
If you do start a series of threads discussing separate games, can you please not act like every 13 year old on the internet by copying an internet meme like "Let's Play" and think of a more original and less annoying title?

Harsh :)
 
I think its safe to say that there's no 13 year olds on an amiga forum ;)
 
I wasn't thinking a "lets play" as such, but rather to see if I could get a few people into playing the game while I do. Talk about the levels as we play through them, share tips etc.
 
Anyone up for it?
 
Doesn't matter to me if its emulated or "amiga for reals". I'll be happy to start my current game over, and we'll see if we can fight our way through the game together.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: Cammy on December 29, 2010, 03:24:13 AM
Sorry I should have worded it differently. I mean to say I'm supportive of the idea, as long as it's not titled "Let's play..." something, memes just really annoy me.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 29, 2010, 04:29:28 AM
its all good, don't worry.
 
i did want to do threads on a few others, notably Gloom and AB3D, so we'll find a catchy tile for the series
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: mechy on December 29, 2010, 06:38:01 AM
Quote from: whabang;602361
It runs like a charm under UAE. :p


Yea,but any lamer with: a Ridiculously overpowered I7-based PC with tons of RAM, and a video card with more computational power than any classic Amiga. Running a bloated version of Windows, and some kind of generic WinUAE setup thats scared of real hardware can do that...Takes a real amigan to push old hardware to do neet things.

MAWAHAhah!
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 29, 2010, 07:32:14 AM
I didn't get a chance to play as much tonight, since I was getting a few adventure games installed.

A few observations though:

I really dig that you can upgrade each weapon to a "double shot" without using more energy per shot.

Some people might fuss that using the same ammo for everything is lame. I kind of like it though.

Running around everywhere will get you chewed up.

The enemies will come after you if you try to retreat.

Strafing is an absolute must, to reduce incoming fire.

THe big beasties get pretty scary. They can soak up a lot of hits.

You can actually buy keys in the intex style computer, but its wicked expensive.

Looking up and down is nice, though its a bit awkward as its all by keyboard.

You only get a password every 5 levels. Holy shit.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 29, 2010, 12:16:58 PM
@runequester
Yup, it's a tough game alright ;) I really wish mouse looking was implemented properly. Mouse look + WASD rocks :)

@Cammy
"Lets play" is a reasonable topic title IMO. Even if that "meme" annoys you, I think it's a bit unreasonable not to write it as the title of a thread suggesting that readers play a game...

Incidentally, I find the use of the word "meme" to refer to transitory Internet fads more annoying than these "memes" themselves ;)

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 29, 2010, 01:55:02 PM
I never saw "Let's play" as a meme. Regardless, there's huge potential for terrible puns in those kind of topics and I welcome any future AO memes that spawn from such threads. :D
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: Karlos on December 29, 2010, 01:57:39 PM
Quote from: Cammy;602586
memes just really annoy me.

Problem?
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: JC on December 29, 2010, 02:40:15 PM
Fantastic game! Awesome with 060.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: koshman on December 29, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
runequester, I like the idea of more people playing and sharing their thoughts etc. I'll start tonight and share my thoughts with you :) I never really got into Breathless before, because it really seems like all the other me too FPSs on Amiga - a decent engine and shallow gameplay, everything gray gray gray, no weapon displayed etc. Graphically it wasn't bad though quite slow, all in all it resembled Wolf3D more than ****. I'll give it another chance :)
 
OTOH I love AB3D, that's a truly great game.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 29, 2010, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: Karlos;602652
Problem?

You, good Sir, just won this thread! :lol:
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: B00tDisk on December 29, 2010, 05:19:10 PM
I liked the look of Breathless' corridors and textures, but the enemies looked like bath toys and the whole "stream of bullets" thing just annoys.  I much rather prefer "hitscan" weapons (point the gun, pull the trigger, enemy is struck) for ballistic weapons.  Rockets and energy weapons (strangely enough) I'm OK with seeing the ammo fly.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: fishy_fiz on December 29, 2010, 05:37:26 PM
Quote from: whabang;602666
You, good Sir, just won this thread! :lol:


Is the thread the prize, or the contest itself ?   :)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: fishy_fiz on December 29, 2010, 05:43:12 PM
Sorry, I know it's off topic, but has anyone ever played Testament ? I had a demo from a CU Amiga magazine cover cd, but I enjoyed it more than Breathless and actually preferred the visual style more. Textures probably werent as well drawn, but there was more color and it didnt look so much like a generic "game that shall not be named" rip off. (visually I mean, the games themselves (doom/breathless) play very differently)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 29, 2010, 06:09:43 PM
Quote from: B00tDisk;602679
I liked the look of Breathless' corridors and textures, but the enemies looked like bath toys and the whole "stream of bullets" thing just annoys.  I much rather prefer "hitscan" weapons (point the gun, pull the trigger, enemy is struck) for ballistic weapons.  Rockets and energy weapons (strangely enough) I'm OK with seeing the ammo fly.


Actually I agree about the "stream of bullets". It does look tacky. After all, in the real world you can't see bullets flying through the air. Rockets you probably could, and energy weapons don't exist (at least in the form we see them in games AFAIK) so they can look however they want ;)

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 29, 2010, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;602684
Sorry, I know it's off topic, but has anyone ever played Testament ? I had a demo from a CU Amiga magazine cover cd, but I enjoyed it more than Breathless and actually preferred the visual style more. Textures probably werent as well drawn, but there was more color and it didnt look so much like a generic "game that shall not be named" rip off. (visually I mean, the games themselves (doom/breathless) play very differently)


No I never played it. IIRC it was released just before I got rid of all my original Amiga gear. I wasn't too impressed by the graphics, which of course is of prime importance in a FPS ;)

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: fishy_fiz on December 29, 2010, 06:41:37 PM
Sure, the graphics werent drawn all that well, but at least it wasnt bland like breathless. I only thought of it as its another Wolf3d style fps (as is breathless, even if they tried to hide it).
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 30, 2010, 05:07:42 AM
Testament sort of looks like a PD Wolfenstein clone :)

I liked that there was a map viewable while playing. For some reason, its super buggy for me. Maybe its just a bad version.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: koshman on December 30, 2010, 07:52:51 AM
So I played through the first 5 levels of Breathless yesterday. Almost finished the 6th level, but then it crashed... Not a bad game I must say, the actual experience is not that far off from the game-that-we-shall-not-mention. The graphics is not bad and it has more variety than I thought (besides the opening stage). I'm playing on 060 in 1x2 full screen and with mouse control it seems fluent to me (1x1 was playable, but mouse was a little jerky).
I found the game quite difficult in the beginning, but I once I got the rhythm it was actually quite simple to blast through the levels - mouse control and strafing help a lot.
The gripes - I want to see my weapon, it does a lot for the atmosphere. The level desing isn't great - a lot of huge empty rooms that don't make sense, but that's normal for a 1st gen FPS. I'd like more variety in enemies, sfx differing in volume (when I activate a switch the opening wall sounds like it's right behind my back even though it's on the other end of the map).
 
Overall it's not bad for what it is.
 
Still it's hard for me to understand why would anyone want to play 3D games on Amiga (especially AGA) and why would anyone want to play 1st generation FPS regardless of platform today (maybe with the expection of.... DOOM...). This is a genre that has really evolved and improved a lot.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 30, 2010, 08:04:10 AM
Quote from: koshman;602809
So I played through the first 5 levels of Breathless yesterday. Almost finished the 6th level, but then it crashed... Not a bad game I must say, the actual experience is not that far off from the game-that-we-shall-not-mention. The graphics is not bad and it has more variety than I thought (besides the opening stage). I'm playing on 060 in 1x2 full screen and with mouse control it seems fluent to me (1x1 was playable, but mouse was a little jerky).
I found the game quite difficult in the beginning, but I once I got the rhythm it was actually quite simple to blast through the levels - mouse control and strafing help a lot.
The gripes - I want to see my weapon, it does a lot for the atmosphere. The level desing isn't great - a lot of huge empty rooms that don't make sense, but that's normal for a 1st gen FPS. I'd like more variety in enemies, sfx differing in volume (when I activate a switch the opening wall sounds like it's right behind my back even though it's on the other end of the map).
 
Overall it's not bad for what it is.
 
Still it's hard for me to understand why would anyone want to play 3D games on Amiga (especially AGA) and why would anyone want to play 1st generation FPS regardless of platform today (maybe with the expection of.... DOOM...). This is a genre that has really evolved and improved a lot.

Its an acquired taste :) I enjoy a lot of those old FPS games, both amiga and PC (games like Alien Trilogy and Blood f.x.).
If I had to pick something, its nice to have a change from ultra realistic looking (space) marine dudes that tend to dominate the FPS genre, and I like a break from my usual poison of UT2004 :)

Thanks for giving it a shot though. Too bad the game crashed.

There are quite a few different enemies in the game but only 3 types or so per "world", so you have to blast through 5 levels of the same 3 guys before meeting new ones. A bit disappointing but maybe it was easier on memory limitations back then, who knows.

I do agree it'd be nice to see the gun. At least you get a nice big cross hair.
It seems the hit boxes are pretty wide, so I rarely have trouble hitting a target.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: koshman on December 30, 2010, 08:44:02 AM
I'll play some more next week (I'm leaving town for the New Year celebration tonight...). How many levels does the game have?
Also you mentioned something about getting access codes only every fifth level, but when I played I got them after every single level, what did you mean by that?
 
Btw, I'm desparately looking forward to Indivision MK2 shipping, because currently I'm using composite out -> VGA box and LCD and the output is pretty bad. A proper scan doubler will make using my A1200 much more enjoyable...
 
EDIT: you mentioned Blood, that was a great game. I also enjoy some older FPS games (not 1st gen though) like Outlaws, Dark Forces/Jedi Knight and Terminator:Future Shock - that one was awesome and brought us mouselook!
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 30, 2010, 08:45:55 AM
Quote from: koshman;602816
I'll play some more next week (I'm leaving town for the New Year celebration tonight...). How many levels does the game have?
Also you mentioned something about getting access codes only every fifth level, but when I played I got them after every single level, what did you mean by that?
 
Btw, I'm desparately looking forward to Indivision MK2 shipping, because currently I'm using composite out -> VGA box and LCD and the output is pretty bad. A proper scan doubler will make using my A1200 much more enjoyable...


Does your version say 1.1? I believe the patched version gives you codes every level. THe original only gave them at the end of a "world".

If I remember right, there's 20 or 25 levels in total, but I could be remembering wrong.

I have an external scan doubler that I got for a hundred bucks, which works pretty well. A tiny bit of ghosting in workbench but nothing bad at all.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: koshman on December 30, 2010, 09:20:38 AM
OK, I guess it must be the patched version - it's a WHDload version I downloaded somewhere.
 
I'm thinking whether I should wait for the Indivision or buy some other SD now. WB in 1024x768 would be nice, but I have other RTG equipped Amigas so it's not necessary, plus I'm afraid how it will work with my Lisa chip...
Btw, does you SD work on an LCD? That's a requirement for me + custom refresh rate (or at least fixed at 60Hz...).
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 30, 2010, 05:04:47 PM
http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html
this is what I use, along with a simple amiga monitor port to VGA adapter, you cn get from vesalia or amigakit for a few bucks.

I'll see if I can take a few pictures of how it looks, but basically good. On black backgrounds, you see some slight vertical lines, but I've heard people get that on indivision as well.

It works great with an LCD, which is what I use daily.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: XDelusion on December 30, 2010, 05:08:13 PM
Correct, DOOM didn't kill the Amiga, instead it gave it yet another target to aim for and it passed with flying colors! Genetic Species is another great example of this.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 30, 2010, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: XDelusion;602879
Correct, DOOM didn't kill the Amiga, instead it gave it yet another target to aim for and it passed with flying colors! Genetic Species is another great example of this.


I installed Genetic again last night and it is aaaawesome. I can't believe how quick it runs on an 030, and still looks so great.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2010, 05:17:13 PM
Quote from: koshman;602809
Still it's hard for me to understand why would anyone want to play 3D games on Amiga (especially AGA) and why would anyone want to play 1st generation FPS regardless of platform today (maybe with the expection of.... DOOM...). This is a genre that has really evolved and improved a lot.

I think there's a certain kick to be had from seeing how well the Amiga could do FPSs when everyone was raving about Doom on the PC. The bad ones are awful, but the good ones really showed the Amiga's potential.

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2010, 05:17:47 PM
Quote from: runequester;602880
I installed Genetic again last night and it is aaaawesome. I can't believe how quick it runs on an 030, and still looks so great.


What spec are you running on?

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 30, 2010, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: runequester;602880
I installed Genetic again last night and it is aaaawesome. I can't believe how quick it runs on an 030, and still looks so great.

Genetic species basically uses a Wolfenstein-esque engine with good textures and some transparent sprites. It's a cheap trick but the end result is awesome! :)
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2010, 05:33:17 PM
Quote from: whabang;602890
Genetic species basically uses a Wolfenstein-esque engine with good textures and some transparent sprites. It's a cheap trick but the end result is awesome! :)


Didn't it use lighting and shading effects and multiple alpha sprites? ISTR the magazine reviews discussing the fact that GS employed these techniques, seen for years on the PC, for the first time in an Amiga FPS.

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: koshman on December 30, 2010, 05:59:43 PM
@ Runequester:

Thanks for the link, I saw this device before, but didn't know how it performed in practice. It's good to know that you're happy with it. I like that it's external and universal, also the price isn't bad when compared with most Amiga scandoublers.

As for Genetic Species, it's probably one of the best looking FPSs on Amiga IMO. I only played a few levels and found the environments somewhat repetitive, but it' really amazing how fast it is considering how great it looks. I would like to see the engine render some outdoor levels, don't know if there are some, I will have to play it more.
I really like Nemac IV - it looks amazing, very sharp like it is higher res or something. I also find it enjoyable, it's highly underrated IMO.

@ Moto:

I know what you mean:-) I like playing mp3s and video on my Amigas just to see how far can I push them:-) But I prefer advanced demos to demonstrate Amiga's graphical capabilities as those have always been its strong point. I find it amusing that on my 060 the best running FPS as in fastest, most fluent, is Doom. Serkously. The most technically advanced then would be Quake - playable with RTG and OCed 060.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: runequester on December 30, 2010, 06:20:27 PM
Moto - Its a 1230/56, and 64 megs of RAM, the new ones from Individual Computers. I dont know if the fact its SD RAM makes a significant difference here. I think the game is just very well coded.
 
 
I think after the new years, when Im supposed to go as much "amiga only" as I can, as part of my experiment, I'll do a series of discussions on each of the various amiga FPS games. Seems like there's fodder for conversation and some game playing together here :)
 
Koshman - If I forget, remind me after the weekend to get some pictures for you, of the thing in use. Its pretty incognito, mine is just stuffed behind the amiga. The only annoying thing is it has an AC adapter, so the power strip gets a bit crowded, but other than that, I've been really happy, and its a lot cheaper than Indivision (which is second hand only right now).
 
Also, you dont have to mess around inside the miggy, whcih in this day and age is probably a good thing. That case gets pretty cramped as it is
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: whabang on December 30, 2010, 06:48:02 PM
Quote from: motorollin;602894
Didn't it use lighting and shading effects and  multiple alpha sprites? ISTR the magazine reviews discussing the fact  that GS employed these techniques, seen for years on the PC, for the  first time in an Amiga FPS.

--
moto
Yeah, that's what I meant with transparent sprites, wasn't familiar with the technical term for them. :)

The  3D rendering is done with ray casting, just as in Wolfenstein 3D. It's  just that the textures are waaaay prettier and the sprites have an alpha  channel.
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2010, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: koshman;602900
I know what you mean:-) I like playing mp3s and video on my Amigas just to see how far can I push them:-) But I prefer advanced demos to demonstrate Amiga's graphical capabilities as those have always been its strong point. I find it amusing that on my 060 the best running FPS as in fastest, most fluent, is Doom. Serkously. The most technically advanced then would be Quake - playable with RTG and OCed 060.

It's great to see what we can do with our old machines, both from the point of view of seeing how far they can be pushed, and also to see if they can keep up with comparable machines of the day (even if it is too late now ;))

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2010, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: runequester;602902
Moto - Its a 1230/56, and 64 megs of RAM, the new ones from Individual Computers. I dont know if the fact its SD RAM makes a significant difference here. I think the game is just very well coded.


Hmm, must be. I'm using a Blizzard 1230/50 with 16MB of RAM. Oh god, the upgrade monster has got me again :nervous:

--
moto
Title: Re: Lets talk or play... Breathless
Post by: koshman on January 05, 2011, 02:10:34 PM
I played some more yesterday. One thing I like is the static backdrop image in outdoor sections - it's a small thing, but it really helps immersion. On the other hand - some of the levels are making me crazy - like the maze in lvl 8 where you are vulnerable and attacked from all 4 sides by those generic soldiers and apes (don't look like robots to me :) ) - it's little unfair, but adds challenge, true :)