Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: dwaldrop on December 23, 2010, 12:06:44 AM
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When the A1000 was first introduced, I was working at a computer shop that sold Amiga and Leading Edge PCs (Model D). It was so easy to sell the Amiga.... fist show the PC with it's single tone BEEP and green monochrome screen. Next, load Defender of the Crown.
The Amiga was so advanced, it sold itself.
Back then it was multi-tasking, color, sound, animation and video....
If there were a new Amiga or Amiga-like computer... how could it change the game today?
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I think it would be very similar to what Apple did in that they went for intel and abandoned PPC. I think all custom chips would be gone in favour of the standard intel duo/quad cores of Apples and PC's today.
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It wouldn't and it couldn't. Computers and computing today are hardly anything more than sum_generic_persons tool for getting on the internet, typing an e-mail, looking at porn, editing their photos (because now, any idiot is a DIY "professional" photographer) and *maybe* editing their home videos. At work, they're still content using horrible technology with shoddy overpriced software written to maintain their books and inventory - all completely flawed, non-user friendly and prone to millions of dollars worth of mistakes and inaccuracies. Hardly any company is safe from that typical business-related scenario either despite the fact superior computers, OS's and software have come and gone.
The Mac and its spinoffs are the closest thing we have to anything "exciting" computing wise and frankly - they're going to be holding that reign for quite a while.
Now that the Democruds have gotten their way once again, the Grubment (FCC and its tangled throngs) will dumb the internet down even further - making that aspect of computing even less compelling than it's been, year after year, since the early 2000's. ALL of the mainstream social sites are proving this right now in fact. Look at MySpace and Facebook. Horseshit Twitter-like content is what it's quickly becoming. Pics of peoples pets and kids. Asinine status updates too, as if anyone really cares about most peoples petty lives and lifestyles. "Hey, look what I just bought from Wal-Mart". "The Cowboys are better than 'insert some other stupid team here'". Yep - there's your future of computing ;) Blech.
It's all over buddy. The mainstream has ruined yet another aspect of electronica. I don't see anything coming out in the near future computing wise that either hasn't already been done, much less worth get excited about. If any platform or truly unique or superior system came about (again), it'd be squashed for all the reasons stated above or not gain enough of the mainstreams acceptance for it to be relevant and profitable for anyone, for very long anyway. We should all know by now that anything "cool" doesn't last for long. Especially in America. It's almost always replaced by the un-friendly or otherwise inferior ware. It's just the way it is unfortunately. In just about every aspect of industry too. I can't think of a single thing that's made better today than yesteryear. This stuff is designed to break so you have to repurchase it AND/OR the genital pubic is too slow to realize that they've been made guinea pigs by these consumer electronics companies or at the very least, have become individual R&D "departments" w/ the privilege of paying for said status.
Totally free forming holographic displays that were worked on and put to use in 80's arcades (not this glasses wearing "3D" crap) would have or would be nice if perfected, but you can forget about that. Looks like the trend is going toward that multi-screen Nintendo DS technology for 3D instead. At least you don't have to wear silly overpriced glasses for it though.
Damn, that outlook sure is bleak! But it really does reflect what's going on by and large. And naturally, this is just my $.02. Not even worth that much outside of the choir, which frankly, I don't give a damn about. :laughing:
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Tell us exactly how you feel :)
The desktop computer is becoming a thing of the past. Computers are bought by most people for simple internet tasks, and we're at the point where that will start phasing out in favour of smart phones, tablets, netbooks etc
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@save2600
I think your too pessimistic about what could be done, even if right on the money about what will be done. What the Amiga did in it's day (obviously) wasn't impossible, but was shocking at what it did in it's price range.
So, take a look at it from that perspective. If someone could put together a system that had the things we can do today at huge prices, but could do it at less than a grand, what would we have? I know that I have been waiting for a game cube. Not the box that Nintendo put out, abut a 6 walled room you could play in with displays on all sides. Maybe we would have to settle for the floor not being a screen, so 5 sides, but we have the tech today to put up a 8'x8'x8' fiberglass framed tent with walls made of materiel designed for projecting an image from behind. 5 projectors, and we have a fully immersive environment for starting this new ground breaking system. Maybe it could be improved by making it a dome, and have software distort the display properly so that it looks right from the inside. Now, had some motion sensing cameras that have better response time that MS's, and you have a gaming environment, and actually a work environment like you have never seen before.
A similar effect could be achieved with stereoscopic glasses. 3D TVs will find their niche in video gaming (I don't think they will in watching television), but it is really the wrong approach for 3D gaming. Monitors fit inside the glasses with a left eye and a right eye image would make a lot more sense. Again, fitted with motion detection, you would have a whole new gaming environment.
Neither of these would be are outside the scope of what we could do today.
For more businessy type stuff, how taking the above game cube and making it the office cube. Build in a really good real time video codec (liklely in hardware), and make the cube your office cubicle. A couple of these in the office, and you could have face to face meetings just like you were there. You would get all of the same audio and visual cues without the long commute, as you would be sitting or standing right next to the person you were having a meeting with. Heck, put in a little fake Segway in the corner, and you could cruse around the entire office. Would a system that gave you a 'Virtual Cubicle' networked with an entire office of 'Virtual Cubicles', 'Virtual Conference Rooms', and maybe even 'Virtual Lunch Rooms' be any more difficult engineering wise, or any less ground breaking than what the Amiga was when it was released?
All that being said, I still think that making stuff happen physically is the 'PC' of the next decade. Robotics has just gotten cheap enough to be a home hobby for the nerds. We are at the robotics stage of the early computer kits. We are just at the verge of the Vic20 stage of robotics.
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I was going to throw in my own personal thoughts here but I reckon save2600 summed it up quite perfectly in his post here, although I'd just like to say I still have a dream that maybe one day some sort of miracle will happen and the Amiga will somehow rise from the ashes once again... :)
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The Amiga was so advanced, it sold itself.
Wish it did in large numbers. I sold Amiga's from about '89 to '91 in one of the more affluent areas in the Midwest (Chicago burbs). Can't tell you how many people I'd demonstrate the machine to (full Amiga 500 system w/ memory, spare drive and monitor for less than a grand) that would end up purchasing a $3000-$6000 IBM clone anyway. There was hardly any margin in selling Amiga stuff, but those overpriced PeeCee's brought in a cool 6%-8% commission off the top! As an Amiga user and believer since '87, it was REALLY difficult selling both platforms - let me tell you. The few I did sell, most of them ended up coming right straight back to us weeks later. Of course, the customers always knew when you wouldn't be around, despite your 50+ hour work week, so they'd return the Amiga (which I would then lose the already paltry commission on) and purchase a "multi-media" 8088 or 286 for thousands more from someone else. ARRGGHH! lol
Just about ALL of the best years of my life were wasted working retail. Trying to appease the least common denominator no less. Why is there no support group for us? :( :lol:
@Belial6:
I know what you're saying - but damn... history keeps repeating itself. Over and over and over again.
Beta vs. VCR
Sega Dreamcast vs. Sony PS2
3DO vs. Sony PS1 and Nintendo SNES
16/32-bit Atari Lynx vs. an 8-bit black/white Nintendo Gameboy
Sega Saturn vs. Sony PS1
SACD/DVD-Audio/HDCD vs. mp3's and regular CD's - still!
Sony 8mm camcorder vs. VHS-C
64-bit Atari Jaguar vs. anything (lol)
NEC TG-16 vs. NES
Toshiba's HDCD vs. Sony's Blu-ray
S-VHS vs. everything (funny how the input standard survived though)
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Wish it did in large numbers. I sold Amiga's from about '89 to '91 in one of the more affluent areas in the Midwest (Chicago burbs). Can't tell you how many people I'd demonstrate the machine to (full Amiga 500 system w/ memory, spare drive and monitor for less than a grand) that would end up purchasing a $3000-$6000 IBM clone anyway. There was hardly any margin in selling Amiga stuff, but those overpriced PeeCee's brought in a cool 6%-8% commission off the top! As an Amiga user and believer since '87, it was REALLY difficult selling both platforms - let me tell you. The few I did sell, most of them ended up coming right straight back to us weeks later. Of course, the customers always knew when you wouldn't be around, despite your 50+ hour work week, so they'd return the Amiga (which I would then lose the already paltry commission on) and purchase a "multi-media" 8088 or 286 for thousands more from someone else. ARRGGHH! lol
Just about ALL of the best years of my life were wasted on working retail and dealing with the least common denominator. Why is there no support group for us? :( :lol:
That about sums the whole thing up. Commodore's attitude in trying to replicate the C64 sales strategy backfired on them big time.
You didnt stand a chance mate :(
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Tell us exactly how you feel :)
The desktop computer is becoming a thing of the past. Computers are bought by most people for simple internet tasks, and we're at the point where that will start phasing out in favour of smart phones, tablets, netbooks etc
I would say that you are splitting hairs and redefining words. For example, when I was in school, there was a style of music called 'Heavy Metal'. Today, there is Heavy Metal, Metal, Nu-Metal, Grind-Core, Black Metal, Death Metal, Speed Metal, Hair Metal, NWBHM, Power Metal, etc., etc., etc... Heck, much of what was defined as 'Heavy Metal' when I was in school, doesn't even get filed under any of the 'Metals' anymore. Go into a record store and find a copy of Quiet Riot's 'Metal Health'. It is in the rock, or pop section. It isn't counted as heavy metal anymore, even with the word 'Metal' right there in the name. Many will now come out and claim that it never was 'Metal'. We see the same thing with "The King of Rock and Roll". Today he is considered to have been a country singer. I have had people tell me that I am stupid for claiming he sang Rock and Roll.
So, back to the point, smart phones, tablets and netbooks ARE computers. They may be small, they may be portable, but the definitely are computers. They are exactly what any computer nerd would have told you computers would one day be. Netbook in particular, wouldn't even be out of place in 2000. They would have just been called a laptop computer and cost $2500. Tablets and smartphones would have been considered amazingly cool and cutting edge, but would have been immediately identified as computers by any 1980's nerd.
As you can see here, at one time, the Atari 2600 was considered a 'Computer'.
(http://www.mr-atari.com/afbeeldingen/systems/2600pacmanblue.jpg)
No doubt, that most people would argue that it never was, even though it had a keyboard, and could be programed by the end use in basic.
There is much room for innovation in computers, it's just that marketers will want give them a new name so that they don't get associated with those last millennium boring and nerdy devices.
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So, back to the point, smart phones, tablets and netbooks ARE computers. They may be small, they may be portable, but the definitely are computers.
Cobblers... they're toys/gimmicks that sad gits buy just to be trendy, how do you do D.T.P. on an I phone ? where to you plug in the printer ?, where's the video output to connect up to a monitor ? etc.. etc..
As I say nothing but toys/gimmicks that mugs buy just to try and look cool, sad really... :(
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Wish it did in large numbers. I sold Amiga's from about '89 to '91 in one of the more affluent areas in the Midwest (Chicago burbs). Can't tell you how many people I'd demonstrate the machine to (full Amiga 500 system w/ memory, spare drive and monitor for less than a grand) that would end up purchasing a $3000-$6000 IBM clone anyway. There was hardly any margin in selling Amiga stuff, but those overpriced PeeCee's brought in a cool 6%-8% commission off the top! As an Amiga user and believer since '87, it was REALLY difficult selling both platforms - let me tell you. The few I did sell, most of them ended up coming right straight back to us weeks later. Of course, the customers always knew when you wouldn't be around, despite your 50+ hour work week, so they'd return the Amiga (which I would then lose the already paltry commission on) and purchase a "multi-media" 8088 or 286 for thousands more from someone else. ARRGGHH! lol
FOr a 286,I imagine "multimedia" meant "more than 4 colours" :D
Cobblers... they're toys/gimmicks that sad gits buy just to be trendy, how do you do D.T.P. on an I phone ? where to you plug in the printer ?, where's the video output to connect up to a monitor ? etc.. etc..
As I say nothing but toys/gimmicks that mugs buy just to try and look cool, sad really...
Not sure about the iphone, but my wife's phone has an HDMI output that can connect to all sorts of displays.
And printers :furious:
The sooner those infernal things disappear the better mate.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
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Cobblers... they're toys/gimmicks that sad gits buy just to be trendy, how do you do D.T.P. on an I phone ? where to you plug in the printer ?, where's the video output to connect up to a monitor ? etc.. etc..
As I say nothing but toys/gimmicks that mugs buy just to try and look cool, sad really... :(
Full desktop publishing might be tricky on such a small screen, but there are photo manipulation tools for the major smartphones as well as word processing/spreadsheet/presentation applications. http://mobile.photoshop.com/android/ http://www.quickoffice.com/quickoffice_connect_suite_android/
Printing is easy via WiFi or Bluetooth.
Video out? Yes. http://www.phonenews.com/motorola-announces-motoroi-android-device-with-hdmi-output-9996/
Android, in particular, is based on Linux, which is a real, powerful operating system for computers. It's unfortunate, but just about any smartphone on the market today has more processing power than the most powerful classic Amiga.
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The Amiga was introduced at a time when less than 1% of the world's population had use for computers in general. Today, with that percentage much higher and trends taking hold much faster, the Amiga, with technology even marginally comparable to today's standards, would likely flourish.
Think Johnny Depp instead of Andy Warhol and Lady Gaga instead of Debby Harry driving the hype and you might get a feel for what the enthusiasm could be.
I don't think the technology would necessarily have to be better than the competition. New products with a decent introduction tend to do well regardless of real technical merit.
But then again, the geniuses in Commodore's front office would again find a way to squander any success gained, and the Amiga would fizzle after its short rise to fame.
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And printers :furious:
The sooner those infernal things disappear the better mate.
Think of the joy a printer brings though, all that cursing and skelping the ruddy thing cos no matter how many times you clean the heads when you go to print out something you still end up with all those lovely frustrating banding effects... :lol:
Not to mention the joy of walking around for days with black ink stained fingers from when you try to refill the cartridge just to try and save a few quid... :lol:
Hmm... think you might a point there... ban the bloody things... :)
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@save2600 - Nice list. I guess I am an optimist as I think I owned all of the losing technologies EXCEPT HDCD.
I was in Kansas City and I seems to have very little trouble selling the A1000 and A500... unless someone HAD to have some high end business software like PeachTree )I think that was it at the time...)
I am still optimistic. I think that there is still enough vision left in the computer-related industry. It will take some risk and some hard work, but there is a lot that can be done.
I agree that the Mac feels more like my old Amiga than any other current commercial OS. The community is similar in many respects. As a programmer, I have encountered a good number of Mac users in my area of expertise that are willing to share experience and knowledge.
Good points all around and I appreciate your thoughts!
-David
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I agree with save 2600 and while we can't 'see' what the Amiga would be like today, I think we can make some educated guesses by looking at other platforms like Apple.
I think most of you will agree that Commodore had more in common with Apple than Microsoft or the 'PC' world. Given that, I think we can draw some insight on what Commodore would have done:
-The AmigaOS as you know it now would not exist today. We know that memory protection and hardware abstraction is a must for any modern OS. Without these two technologies, your OS is just too vulnerable to outside hackers, virii, and malware.
All anyone has to do is write to memory location $4 and I can bring down your Amiga. People put up with this in 1990, people would shoot you in 2010 if your OS allowed this. :-)
Apple realized this problem around System 7 but by then it was too late to move the train. They were even worse off as System 7 wasn't even a true multitasking OS. However, like trashing $4 on the Amiga, it was insanely easy to bring down the MacOS in a very similar way. You can't just 'bolt' on memory protection or a HAL so you must look for a new OS which means your old software is probably not going to work.
Apple did realize something that Commodore would have as well. Nobody cares about the 'frame' of the OS as long is the GUI and software work like you expect them too.
Apple went looking for a frame to carry their 'Mac Experience' on and thought about NT, Linux, BeOS, and NeXT. In the end we know they went with NeXT which wasn't horrible but I thought BeOS was quite nice as well.
They 'emulated' the old OS to keep the software base alive while they (begged) developers to port to their newer OS. Apple actually had a very difficult time because WinTel was just so powerful that many developers wondered why they should put the effort into a base that had such a small market share. Adobe, I'm looking in your direction...
Commodore would have had to make a similar decision. Do you write a new OS or just add Intuition on top of something else? Do not think for a minute that writing a core OS is something easy. It is a monumental task so there is much to be said for bolting on the Amiga Experience on top of something else.
Since AMIX was done at Commodore perhaps they would have looked at a Unix solution like Apple? This would not have been a bad solution, really.
-Hardware: CPU
The 68k was dead by the early 1990s so Commodore would have had to look toward a new CPU (just like Apple).
In older posts, Haynie mentioned the Alpha chip I think? I know it was a RISC based CPU so they might have moved to PPC along with Apple. Anything is possible.
This will really cause people to flame me, but going with Intel would have been very smart. Intel offers you a great many advantages that no other CPU does:
--Virtualization as opposed to emulation is something that sells computers. Apple may not trumpet it, but the ability to run Windows in a virtual window or boot into Windows via Boot Camp sold many people on an Apple computer (me included).
I still do a great deal of work in Windows but I can run Windows on my terms on my Mac. Its a VMWare window that runs along side my other Mac applications. Commodore could have offered something similar.
Boot Camp, Virtualization, and WINE really come in handy when you have to run Windows software but wish to do so on your terms.
--Its also much easier to compile for the same architecture than going from Intel to PPC or Intel to Alpha or whatever. Most of the games on the Mac are just Windows games running on a modified version of WINE. This allows ports without a great deal of work. If the Mac was still on PPC, I think the market share would have continued to shrink...
-Hardware: Chipset
It would be interesting to have seen if Commodore could have kept up with companies like nVidia or ATI (AMD) when it came to graphic chips.
AA or whatever was after AGA would have supported RTG -a start for a HAL- as well as a unified driver model for graphics. Also, the core chipset would have to compete against Intel, VIA, nVidia (well, not after 2010), and others.
-GUI
In the end, I think Commodore would have continued to refine the GUI (what we loved/love about the Amiga) and this would have evolved into something very nice. Perhaps people would have licensed technology from Commodore for their own OS?
I think if you look at how the MacOS evolved from System 7 to OS X, you can imagine how the AmigaOS would have evolved from 3.x to a modern OS.
Lastly, the AmigaOS was great at fitting a lot of OS into a small footprint so the mobile world could have embraced the AmigaOS on PDAs, phones, tablets, etc...
Commodore had some of the best engineers on the planet and great facilities at their disposal. MOS was a great asset that could have served them well as they continued to upgrade the hardware.
I think that the Open Source community would have embraced the Amiga and there would be great applications on it in 2010 though I still think Microsoft would dominate.
Too bad we'll never know....
Cheers!
P
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The Amiga was introduced at a time when less than 1% of the world's population had use for computers in general. Today, with that percentage much higher and trends taking hold much faster, the Amiga, with technology even marginally comparable to today's standards, would likely flourish.
Think Johnny Depp instead of Andy Warhol and Lady Gaga instead of Debby Harry driving the hype and you might get a feel for what the enthusiasm could be.
I don't think the technology would necessarily have to be better than the competition. New products with a decent introduction tend to do well regardless of real technical merit.
But then again, the geniuses in Commodore's front office would again find a way to squander any success gained, and the Amiga would fizzle after its short rise to fame.
I think the real key is "good enough"
Ipods arent the best MP3 players.. but they were marketed well, and they are good enough for the majority of people.
Itunes isn't the best place to buy music online. But its good enough.
So on and so forth.
A good enough product that people can buy, and have marketed to them will always beat a better product that nobody knows about, or is out of reach
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@ tone007
Yeah, but how do you fit a poxy mobile phone into a tower !!! or spend a fortune on ebay trying to buy an 060 board for it, plus when you open them up there's nothing to tinker with... :(
Nah old miggies & C64s rule the computing world in my universe... :)
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@Franko,
Most people I know have printers that connect via wi-fi or ethernet. It's very easy to print to a printer from an iPhone/iPad, I do it several times a week, always without a problem.
DTP would be a stretch but writing reports, spreadsheets, letters, simple newsletters, etc work fine on an iPad with bluetooth keyboard. There's some fantastic apps, Distant Suns out looking at the sky for example. Games are becoming more complex. In five years tablets will be the predominant form of computer.
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Yeah, but how do you fit a poxy mobile phone into a tower !!!
I prefer fitting it in my pocket and bringing it out while sitting at the bar to shop for things on eBay, Craigslist, check out what's going on here on Amiga.org, price compare items between different retail stores, get directions and have them read to me turn by turn over the car's stereo speakers, find a nice restaurant in the middle of nowhere, take before and after pictures of the wild boar ribs I ordered, tether to my laptop/netbook via WiFi to provide internet on the rare occasion I can't get what I need done on the phone itself...
Handy little things.
Wild boar ribs:
(http://jungle.net/tone/before.jpg)
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@Franko,
Most people I know have printers that connect via wi-fi or ethernet. It's very easy to print to a printer from an iPhone/iPad, I do it several times a week, always without a problem.
DTP would be a stretch but writing reports, spreadsheets, letters, simple newsletters, etc work fine on an iPad with bluetooth keyboard. There's some fantastic apps, Distant Suns out looking at the sky for example. Games are becoming more complex. In five years tablets will be the predominant form of computer.
Ok so they can do certain things I get that now... :)
But I think by now you'll have realised that I'm just a grumpy 40 something old fart who can't stand all these new fangled devices that have taken over the world today from me beloved miggies, and quite possibly going through some sort of mid life crisis... :)
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The Amiga was introduced at a time when less than 1% of the world's population had use for computers in general. Today, with that percentage much higher and trends taking hold much faster, the Amiga, with technology even marginally comparable to today's standards, would likely flourish.
Think Johnny Depp instead of Andy Warhol and Lady Gaga instead of Debby Harry driving the hype and you might get a feel for what the enthusiasm could be.
I don't think the technology would necessarily have to be better than the competition. New products with a decent introduction tend to do well regardless of real technical merit.
But then again, the geniuses in Commodore's front office would again find a way to squander any success gained, and the Amiga would fizzle after its short rise to fame.
But Jonny Depp and Lady Gaga are kittys.
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Wild boar ribs:
(http://jungle.net/tone/before.jpg)
Urgh... those look like some giant multi legged beetles covered in barbie sauce... are those PPC versions ??? :)
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But I think by now you'll have realised that I'm just a grumpy 40 something old fart who can't stand all these new fangled devices that have taken over the world today from me beloved miggies, and quite possibly going through some sort of mid life crisis... :)
If anything, the smartphones are taking over the world from the machines that took over the world from the Amigas, those being PCs and Macs.
..not that they're taking over the world. Nothing beats typing on a full sized keyboard.
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I think the main problem here is that the computer market has changed from the 80s... and not just the proccessing power available. When the Amiga first appeared it was a huge jump in capability over the 8-bit machines we were using back then. These days, any improvements are just marginal over an already advanced state of the art. I mean really, my current system is an Athlon XP 2600... hardly state of the art, but fast enough to emulate my Amiga and my original Atari 800 far faster than real hardware. The Terrabyte hard drive holds everything I ever did on those machines plus 10 years of magazines - with room to spare.... And I paid 5 bucks for the computer & 60 to replace the HD & RAM.
Computers are just a generic product now.
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@ JimS
Computers are just a generic product now.
That's one of the things I find sad about todays world of computing, I know it's no ones fault but being in at the start of true home computing way back in 82 with my first Vic20 then the C64 then the Amiga range, reading some of threads here by younger members it seems they take computers for granted as if they have always been around forever.
When I was at school calculators had only just been introduced to the mainstream public and there was not even one computer in my entire school, just as I left school the Z80 and ZX81 had just came out and then the Vic 20 which is where I started it was a whole new world that had suddenly opened up and we basically had to teach ourselves everything we now know about computers.
I genuinely feel sad and sorry that younger folk missed out on this experience and the whole bedroom industry of computer programming from where many of the large software companies sprang from, it really was a special time that sadly no-one will ever experience again... :(
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Technology progresses. It may not always get more interesting or awe-inspiring since the fundamentals were set years ago, but it's always going to change.
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@ JimS
I genuinely feel sad and sorry that younger folk missed out on this experience and the whole bedroom industry of computer programming from where many of the large software companies sprang from, it really was a special time that sadly no-one will ever experience again... :(
Not just software, but hardware as well... Apple starting from two guys in a garage is legend, but there were a lot of other garage based hardware companies back in the s100 days. Still, a niche market like Amiga does offer opportunities for folks... like one guy reproducing the entire Amiga inside an FPGA.
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@Tone:
Evolution and progression... are you sure you're not confusing the two? :lol:
From a societal perspective, I'm not seeing a single positive benefit to all of this modern technology at all. And the more portable it is, the more abused it gets. Especially by younger people. All it's doing is making them dumb and dumberer (that's a movie reference, not a grammatical error). Only people this technology is benefiting are big pharma, big government, cell phone providers and China. And worse yet, lets not forget how much of all this "wonderful" crap is going to end up in landfills. Sooner than later. I guarantee that ;)
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I said the technology is progressing, I didn't say anything about the people. ;)
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@Tone:
Evolution and progression... are you sure you're not confusing the two? :lol:
From a societal perspective, I'm not seeing a single positive benefit to all of this modern technology at all. And the more portable it is, the more abused it gets. Especially by younger people. All it's doing is making them dumb and dumberer ... ;)
Well said. As much of a tech-geek as I am, I would rather sit in a restaurant and talk to my wife than send a twitter message or update farcebook. I may be the exception, but I turn off the cel phone when I get home.
Like my computers... Love my wife...
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Well said. As much of a tech-geek as I am, I would rather sit in a restaurant and talk to my wife than send a twitter message or update farcebook. I may be the exception, but I turn off the cel phone when I get home.
Like my computers... Love my wife...
Neither owning a mobile phone or any portable computing device, I wish more folk were like you, It takes me all my self control when sitting in a restaurant or pub or other public places not to get up and ram folks ruddy mobile devices up their back end when the ignorant turds sit there talking as loud as they can about absolute S@&te, especially when the twat their talking to is sitting a few tables way or at the other end of the bar, not to mention all those ruddy grating ringtones that you constanly have to listen to... :madashell:
But sadly I seem to be in a minority in this matter, but one of these days I'm gonna be up on a GBH charge for it... but it will be worth it... :)
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Twitter, Facebook, friendster All those useless websites for people who have no life. Would rather go out spend time with kids or mess around with the garden or some Electronics project instead. I have to have a mobile as my work requires it but i hate it and don't use it as much.
humans are becoming too lazy these days (OK i spend my life in front of a PC since that's my job, but atleast i work out and do outside activities), people wonder why obesity especially childhood obesity is becoming so much of a problem.
I also agree most games are too much alike gone are the days where u would spend hours and hours and days and days on one game now days after an hour or so i get bored. Just nothing new or interesting in most games made today.
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Twitter, Facebook, friendster All those useless websites for people who have no life.
Never heard of "friendster" dot com until just now. LMAO! That name is almost as stupid as "twitter". Twat. Twit. People are just soooooo stupid these days. This the same mentality as naming your kid Bob Roberts or Bill Williams. I just don't get it and hope I never do ;-)
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People are just soooooo stupid these days. This the same mentality as naming your kid Bob Roberts or Bill Williams. I just don't get it and hope I never do ;-)
So twitter has a silly name you completely dismiss it as a tool? Yeah, gonna have to agree with you, people are stupid.
As for not understanding it... It's a massive great collective RSS feed on steroids. Pick and choose what you want, leave the rest. What's not to get?
Many Iranians seemed to find it useful at least...
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Never heard of "friendster" dot com until just now. LMAO! That name is almost as stupid as "twitter". Twat. Twit. People are just soooooo stupid these days. This the same mentality as naming your kid Bob Roberts or Bill Williams. I just don't get it and hope I never do ;-)
Yep friendster predates facebook (well to my users anyway) and i am glad i have blocked them all from the network!!!!!! dozens and dozens of unhappy people make me happy..... :D
Ok doesn't sound good but my users are a stupid bunch keep telling the CEO to get some monkeys shave them and replace them with the said monkeys.. More work would get done.....
These people love to waste time and this crap hence my blocking of everything msn, yahoo, facebook, twitter etc etc... but then again i am a nasty sys admin (among my many hats... :) )
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So twitter has a silly name you completely dismiss it as a tool?
It's the fact that soooo many people do not understand and comprehend root words anymore. Twit(ter). Knowing what a twit is, works out perfectly as most on it are exactly that. There *IS* a consortium of people that are bent on hiding/destroying history on many different levels and primarily for one agenda: the less you know about the past, the more moldable you are. And that's why I have a problem with a name like "Twitter". Even if you know nothing else, the word just sounds stupid as it "rolls" off your tongue. Like you know it's a silly word that you shouldn't be saying.
And yes, I am aware of the en masse bandwidth waste of space that Twitter is, even though none of my browsers on any of my computers have ever pointed to it. That is to say, I have never, ever - not even once, "tweeted" in my life. Never will either. :lol:
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There *IS* a consortium of people that are bent on hiding/destroying history on many different levels and primarily for one agenda: the less you know about the past, the more moldable you are. And that's why I have a problem with a name like "Twitter".
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LOL! Glad you can read, but comprehending is an entirely different matter. And screw paying for a tinfoil beanie. I fashion my own ;) My loss for not tweeting? Are you serious? Too funny. I do participate in Facebook... so it's kind of like "tweeting", you know?
Watch the B-52's Funplex video sometime. See if you identify.
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LOL! Glad you can read. And screw paying for a tinfoil beanie. I fashion my own ;) My loss for not tweeting? Are you serious? Too funny.
Like I said, Twitter is just a huge RSS feed on steroids, if used as such, can be a hugely powerful tool for information gathering or following breaking events long before the media get to it.
So yes, honestly I would say it is your loss.
I do participate in Facebook... so it's kind of like "tweeting", you know?
It really isn't.
Watch the B-52's Funplex video sometime. See if you identify.
Just watched it, realised that it's yet another indictment of consumer culture that doesn't offer an alternative or way forward.
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The root of twitter is from what a bird does. You 'tweet' as in make short chirp of a message. As much as I don't use twitter, making stuff up about it doesn't help your argument.
As for kids not having the ability to live through the wonders of the early computer world, I would disagree. They are just doing it with robotics for their hardware, and they are fiddling with software to control that. Most of us didn't work with vacuum tubes. What we did was use pieces that where already built for us. The C64 was not a build from scratch machine. The Amiga wasn't a build from scratch machine. Heck, even the old Heathkits were not really build from scratch if you talk to the people that worked on the parts that the kits were built up from.
As for printers being evil.... As funny as that comic is, 90% of the complaints about printers only apply to Inkjet printers. Just buy a laser printer, and they work fine.
Franko, if you want to get back that feeling you had with your early computers, look into robotics. They are just getting to where the vic20 or c64 were for home computers. I'm pretty sure with a little hacking, you could make something compatible with your tickle sticks. I would recommend the 2 ribbed model for the vic20 feeling, and the 3 ribbed model for the classic c64 feeling....
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Just watched it, realised that it's yet another indictment of consumer culture that doesn't offer an alternative or way forward.
Exactly - just as almost all of our choices today. Thanks to whom?
And how is Facebook different than Twitter? The hundreds of drones that are my "friends" on Facebook... when they update their status... how is that not tweeting? I get e-mails forwarded, letting me know when they added a new pic of their puppy or if they "liked" my status or comment w/ a one liner (often filled with horrible grammar and misspellings). It's all garbage. BS and junk. Wasted bandwidth. And yet I know for a fact, many of these puds no longer like to communicate any other way. Their relatives even tell me so. Writing a letter or picking up the phone is no longer fashionable or tolerated. They want you to communicate THEIR way or no way. Pretty selfish. As is this current ME generation and mindset. It all fits perfectly and was quite predictable as the mainstream moved in on all this mindless and senseless crap. BTW: how is the weather out by you? And how about them Bears?
@Belial6:
Who's making stuff up about Twitter? Is it not just an RSS feed on steroids (as previously mentioned) about your friends' status? Or am I missing something here??
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Exactly - just as almost all of our choices today. Thanks to whom?
The Victorians, specifically industrialisation.
And how is Facebook different than Twitter? The hundreds of drones that are my "friends" on Facebook... when they update their status... how is that not tweeting?
On my Twitter feed I get updates multiple news organisations, political organisations, a few select celebs such as Stephen Fry, some from Anonymous regarding some of their ops, some from bloggers such as Jack of Kent because when they update their blogs it pops up there. The result is I have a broad spectrum of opinion and news that is often hours or even sometimes days ahead of anything you'll pick up on TV or radio.
They want you to communicate THEIR way or no way. Pretty selfish. As is this current ME generation and mindset.
Please tell me you get the irony of this statement given the context.
Or am I missing something here??
You are, but then you'd actually have to check it out to figure out what that difference is.
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The Victorians, specifically industrialisation.
Please tell me you get the irony of this statement given the context.
Ah! I do and I appreciate that - although contextually, we're still talking about two entirely different things. Reading between your lines, I have surmised you can "suck" in different RSS feeds from varying places and sites of your choosing. Forgive my ignorance. I had thought Twitter was another tweeny-bopper social site of sorts. You'll have to forgive me. I am programmed to think anything popular today must be incredibly stupid and unworthy. Not sure exactly where I picked that up, but it is what it is. lol
Still... I am perfectly capable of picking up the paper, watching TV, reading the various news sites or simply looking up at my favorite restaurant (Big Brother and Big Sister now too is everywhere in every corner today as every pub/restaurant/bathroom or any public place period) as they are inundated with monitors if I want to scan their brand of "important" information scrolling across the screen. Stephen Kent and Jack of Fry - could care less who these people are. Kardashians - whatever. Yay for todays newsfeeds. So glad I heard about all the nutjobs too across the world doing horrible things to each other. Helps me a lot in life and solidifies what I already know. Time to go clean my guns now... :lol:
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Ah! I do and I appreciate that - although contextually, we're still talking about two entirely different things. Reading between your lines, I have surmised you can "suck" in different RSS feeds from varying places and sites of your choosing.
No, these are the peoples "tweets". But many blogs for instance have options to enable automated updates to their twitter account, effectively turning twitter into RSS by another name.
Forgive my ignorance. I had thought Twitter was another tweeny-bopper social site of sorts. You'll have to forgive me. I am programmed to think anything popular today must be incredibly stupid and unworthy. Not sure exactly where I picked that up, but it is what it is. lol
Twitter is a lot of things, there is an huge amount of noise, but it offers you a robust toolset to filter it out to your specific interests/wants.
For a tweeny bopper, it's little more than a quick and dirty way to announce to the world their every waking moment and thought as it comes into their heads. For an Iranian dissident, it's a means to let the world know their government has just ordered in the imperial guard and is attacking unarmed civilians in the street they're standing in... Same tool, totally different usage.
And that's why I like Twitter. It is quite literally what you make of it.
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And that's why I like Twitter. It is quite literally what you make of it.
Like most things in life, eh? Okay - thanks Leander. You've given me ample reason to check it out 'someday'. But for now, I'm quite content living without it. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it the way you did. Might be fundamental to some, but I've only been exposed to the tweeny/negative aspects of it. From what I've seen, read and heard: Twitter seems to be the laughing stock of the interwebs. Whatever. I still think it's a stupid name. lol
Great thread btw and sorry to all for the off-topic aspects :(
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Like most things in life, eh? Okay - thanks Leander. You've given me ample reason to check it out 'someday'. But for now, I'm quite content living without it. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it the way you did. Might be fundamental to some, but I've only been exposed (through hearsay) to the tweeny/negative aspects of it.
No worries matey. Was good to be able to talk about it. :D
Great thread btw and sorry to all for the off-topic aspects :(
Are you kidding, most of the greatest threads this place has ever seen has been off topic! :lol:
Besides, the discussion of the internet landscape in view of the original topic is fairly relevant I would have thought. Any new system would likely have to able to deal with these things in an effective manner, for better or worse :)
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I was referring to the claim that the root word of twitter is twit, as in an idiot. Perhaps it was just a pun, but it is making a connection that just isn't there.
The problem isn't that this generation is dumber than previous generations. What you are seeing that this generation actually does communicate more. The downside to that is that just as has always been the case, most people are dumb. You just didn't notice before because they had no way to tell you. It's like violence against kids. We live in an age where it is at an all time low, yet most people think it is more than ever because they now hear about every incident in the country, where as a generation ago, they only heard about it if it was in there state. A generation before that, they were luck if they heard about it when it was just one town over.
You really shouldn't complain about wasted bandwidth. Just as I told my father a decade ago when he would complain about people using the internet for voice chat... It is the bandwidth 'hogs' that push the envelope. They set the bar, and the rest follow. For half a decade now, my phone has been run over the internet, and no one thinks twice about it. Because of the bandwidth 'hogs' of last decade, I can now stream movies in HD to my TV from a selection of thousands of titles. The bandwidth 'hogs' are our friends. Bandwidth usage is graded on the curve. Someone will be setting the curve for the class.
I am not a fan of facebook, or twitter, but I can definitely say that the internet has increased my letter writing by at least a couple of thousand fold. Prior to the internet, I wrote at most 2 letters a year. At most. Today, I write half a dozen a day at least. This being one of them. Letter writing isn't dead. It is just delivered online, and it has exploded in popularity. The phone? That might be used a little less, but that is only because people do so much more of the communication in notes.
I will agree with the atrocious spelling and grammar though. I am not a stickler about either. I generally go with the fact that complaints about spelling and grammar are more frequently not, internet speak for "I don't want to agree with you, but I have nothing to refute what you say, so I will look for spelling errors." I avoid complaints about spelling and grammar because we all make mistakes now and then. Declaring someone wrong due to poor spelling can only lead to a declaration that you are wrong yourself. That doesn't mean that some of the stuff posted doesn't look like it was written by a retarded monkey.
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its one of these funny things.
On one hand, I love technology today. I like having a quick, reliable internet device at hand if I am travelling, I love having an MP3 player, I love my linux computer and what it stands for.
On the other hand, I hate the social networking, I hate people text messaging in the middle of a conversation or dinner, I hate the consumer must buy the new gadget mentality.
So eh :)
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I am programmed to think anything popular today must be incredibly stupid and unworthy. Not sure exactly where I picked that up, but it is what it is. lol:
I'm pretty sure that you over heard it from those kids on your lawn.
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I'm pretty sure that you over heard it from those kids on your lawn.
LOL! And yeah, the Twit in Twitter is a pun, but pretty damned close in reference to the silly status updates. Useful, relevant data that is absorbed by sentient beings who know what to do with said info - not ripping on that aspect of it. The_Leander is absolutely correct when he said it's all in how you use it. That's true of just about anything really, isn't it? Anywho, there's no denying MOST people are talking a lot, but saying very little in these "wondrous" times. Between texting, status updating, Facebooking, MySpacing, Twittering and yapping on their cell phones that is. Communication is at an all time high, but where is the content? Hardly on these mediums. Unless you have the patience and search filters in place of a saint. :lol:
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But are we much better? Yapping on about where a product 20 years dead would be today? It's kind of like what I say my experience with Netflix is. When I got Netflix a decade ago, I started watching every movie I ever wanted to see. I then re-watched every movie that I wanted to see again. THEN I started on the movies I don't want to see. Most of it is crap. Every once in a while though, I get a pleasant surprise and find something that I would have never found otherwise. When I don't, I also get context on what other people find interesting.
We live in an age where getting information in not the skill one needs. Filtering and processing the information is the skill of today. It will likely become even more important in the future.
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@dwaldrop
I think the key is customization like Android is with phones. If the computer in question has an operating system that offers the user all there basic necessities plus cross platform compatibility with complete consumer customization for that individual look and feel you just might have a winner.
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I'd go as far as to claim that iPads and other tablets are the Amigas of tomorrow. They are going to cut out a big niche in the private market, and you can bet your arses on that there will be retro communities aimed at iPhones and Galaxy pads in 20 years! ;)
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I think its interesting how MacOSX with its imminent release of Lion adopting the application phenomenon is a sign of where everything is heading and google looking to release ChromeOS i think this will be the war that will be waged.
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I'd go as far as to claim that iPads and other tablets are the Amigas of tomorrow. They are going to cut out a big niche in the private market, and you can bet your arses on that there will be retro communities aimed at iPhones and Galaxy pads in 20 years! ;)
I kind of doubt iPhones will. They are designed to stop working eventually, and their reliance on a subscriptions for one of it's primary functions makes it unlikely.
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Lets get this thread back on track.
I think its a real shame that desktop computing has pretty much come to a stand still, and are going to left behind very quickly if there is not some big revolution as to why you need one.
Smart phones are getting more and more advance and ok at the moment it difficult to see how you will be able to do certain type of work on a phone, like making web sites, desktop publishing etc, but then I never believed you could do any good video editing on on them, now you can thanks to iMovie and that's the problem the evolution going on in the mobile phone business and now the tablet market are going so quickly overtaking desktops as they are just standing still. Its not just smart phone either, TVs are getting better with internet built in and with more and more software being in the cloud why will you need to have a separate computer? Consoles are getting more and more like computers offering more and more features, web cam, video editing, etc.
What I'm trying to say is I can see it happening in maybe in less than 6 years even, that computers the way we think of them (big desktops) only being seen in business, not in the home, in the home your have smart phone with a dock to your tv, plonk it in and with a wireless mouse and keyboard your be able to do everything I can do on my desktop so why would you need one? Thats what the new amiga would have to be, a intelligent smart phone that when out of the dock your apps are touch controlled and work in the same way a current smart phone works, drop it in your dock attached to either your monitor or tv, the apps become desktop versions, with a simple blutooth connection to keyboard and mouse.
So the idea of a big desktop computer I think is nearing the end of line, and only geeks and business will have them, lucky I'm a geek.
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Lets get this thread back on track.
I think its a real shame that desktop computing has pretty much come to a stand still, and are going to left behind very quickly if there is not some big revolution as to why you need one.
Smart phones are getting more and more advance and ok at the moment it difficult to see how you will be able to do certain type of work on a phone, like making web sites, desktop publishing etc, but then I never believed you could do any good video editing on on them, now you can thanks to iMovie and that's the problem the evolution going on in the mobile phone business and now the tablet market are going so quickly overtaking desktops as they are just standing still. Its not just smart phone either, TVs are getting better with internet built in and with more and more software being in the cloud why will you need to have a separate computer? Consoles are getting more and more like computers offering more and more features, web cam, video editing, etc.
What I'm trying to say is I can see it happening in maybe in less than 6 years even, that computers the way we think of them (big desktops) only being seen in business, not in the home, in the home your have smart phone with a dock to your tv, plonk it in and with a wireless mouse and keyboard your be able to do everything I can do on my desktop so why would you need one? Thats what the new amiga would have to be, a intelligent smart phone that when out of the dock your apps are touch controlled and work in the same way a current smart phone works, drop it in your dock attached to either your monitor or tv, the apps become desktop versions, with a simple blutooth connection to keyboard and mouse.
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Smart phones are getting more and more advance and ok at the moment it difficult to see how you will be able to do certain type of work on a phone, like making web sites, desktop publishing etc,
You use the right tool for the right job. And there are certain jobs that are simply going to be beyond the scope of a 4 inch screen.
but then I never believed you could do any good video editing on on them, now you can thanks to iMovie
The basics for sure, but if you're planning on doing anything even remotely delicate a smart phone simply isn't the tool for the job due to it's form factor. Even if in terms of processing power and software it could probably do it.
v
and that's the problem the evolution going on in the mobile phone business and now the tablet market are going so quickly overtaking desktops as they are just standing still. Its not just smart phone either, TVs are getting better with internet built in and with more and more software being in the cloud why will you need to have a separate computer? Consoles are getting more and more like computers offering more and more features, web cam, video editing, etc.
The front room isn't the ideal place for net browsing no matter what you're running. It sounds like a really cool idea, right up until you actually try it.
What I'm trying to say is I can see it happening in maybe in less than 6 years even, that computers the way we think of them (big desktops) only being seen in business, not in the home, in the home your have smart phone with a dock to your tv, plonk it in and with a wireless mouse and keyboard your be able to do everything I can do on my desktop so why would you need one? Thats what the new amiga would have to be, a intelligent smart phone that when out of the dock your apps are touch controlled and work in the same way a current smart phone works, drop it in your dock attached to either your monitor or tv, the apps become desktop versions, with a simple blutooth connection to keyboard and mouse.
The digital home is pretty much there already tbh. It's simply a question of who will sell whole packages. Currently as it stands Apple are really the only ones who could probably put together an out of the box setup that anyone can use.
But even outside of that, you can do every single thing you describe today with current tech more or less.
So the idea of a big desktop computer I think is nearing the end of line, and only geeks and business will have them, lucky I'm a geek.
Gotta be honest, I'm not really going to shed many tears for honking great boxes. I like my space :)
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It's the fact that soooo many people do not understand and comprehend root words anymore. Twit(ter). Knowing what a twit is, works out perfectly as most on it are exactly that.
The irony of your statement about people not understand the root of words is fantastic, due to your failure to account for the fact that "twitter" and "twit" do not share a root :lol:
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moto
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It wouldn't and it couldn't. Computers and computing today are hardly anything more than sum_generic_persons tool for getting on the internet, typing an e-mail, looking at porn, editing their photos (because now, any idiot is a DIY "professional" photographer) and *maybe* editing their home videos. At work, they're still content using horrible technology with shoddy overpriced software written to maintain their books and inventory - all completely flawed, non-user friendly and prone to millions of dollars worth of mistakes and inaccuracies. Hardly any company is safe from that typical business-related scenario either despite the fact superior computers, OS's and software have come and gone.
The Mac and its spinoffs are the closest thing we have to anything "exciting" computing wise and frankly - they're going to be holding that reign for quite a while.
Now that the Democruds have gotten their way once again, the Grubment (FCC and its tangled throngs) will dumb the internet down even further - making that aspect of computing even less compelling than it's been, year after year, since the early 2000's. ALL of the mainstream social sites are proving this right now in fact. Look at MySpace and Facebook. Horseshit Twitter-like content is what it's quickly becoming. Pics of peoples pets and kids. Asinine status updates too, as if anyone really cares about most peoples petty lives and lifestyles. "Hey, look what I just bought from Wal-Mart". "The Cowboys are better than 'insert some other stupid team here'". Yep - there's your future of computing ;) Blech.
It's all over buddy. The mainstream has ruined yet another aspect of electronica. I don't see anything coming out in the near future computing wise that either hasn't already been done, much less worth get excited about. If any platform or truly unique or superior system came about (again), it'd be squashed for all the reasons stated above or not gain enough of the mainstreams acceptance for it to be relevant and profitable for anyone, for very long anyway. We should all know by now that anything "cool" doesn't last for long. Especially in America. It's almost always replaced by the un-friendly or otherwise inferior ware. It's just the way it is unfortunately. In just about every aspect of industry too. I can't think of a single thing that's made better today than yesteryear. This stuff is designed to break so you have to repurchase it AND/OR the genital pubic is too slow to realize that they've been made guinea pigs by these consumer electronics companies or at the very least, have become individual R&D "departments" w/ the privilege of paying for said status.
Totally free forming holographic displays that were worked on and put to use in 80's arcades (not this glasses wearing "3D" crap) would have or would be nice if perfected, but you can forget about that. Looks like the trend is going toward that multi-screen Nintendo DS technology for 3D instead. At least you don't have to wear silly overpriced glasses for it though.
Damn, that outlook sure is bleak! But it really does reflect what's going on by and large. And naturally, this is just my $.02. Not even worth that much outside of the choir, which frankly, I don't give a damn about. :laughing:
I very much agree with you here, and this is pretty much the reason why I can't get excited about either Wintel or Mac computers....been there, done it. Do I really care about tiny little improvements to OS from massive hikes in computer power from new CPUs/GPUs? Nope less is more and Amiga KS/Wb 1.1/1.2 on A1000 proves just how little progress we have made in the last quarter of a century thanks to people like Apple and Microsoft 'winning'*
The only mild interest I have is the technology inside the PS2/Gamecube at the time and Xbox360/PS3 today because of how they use non PC architecture to achieved greater price/performance on launch day than a £1500 'gaming PC'.
IF, and this is 99% unlikely, Amiga ever came back it would have to do what Microsoft did when designing the Xbox 360 motherboard to a pittance of a price. Ironic that Microsoft are the company that have shown it IS possible even today to use an off the shelf GPU from ATI and combine it with a weird and wonderful CPU and motherboard architecture to slamdunk gaming PC's price/performance on launch day by a factor of 3:1 isn't it? ;) However even consoles have now hit the wall with their photorealistic A/V and yet the future apparently is standing infront of a camera being a dick or using some low-tech motion sensing bollox with childish graphics as per the Wii. The future is here and they can shove it :madashell:
But we will never see this kind of intelligently alternatively designed product labelled as 'Amiga' and that is a fact, technology has nothing to do with it, just that sort of vision and intelligence required is missing from all existing Amiga hardware manufacturers, who are merely producing OS4 compatible motherboards in my book NOT Amigas...or even worse Wintel rubbish from CommodoreUSA ;)
*wakes up to sound of alarm clock ringing*
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You use the right tool for the right job. And there are certain jobs that are simply going to be beyond the scope of a 4 inch screen.
Have you looked at http://justiphoneart.com/
Now I'm not saying everyone can produce high quality work on iphones or other smart phones I'm just amazed that these tiny devices let you do all this and more. Plus lets not forget kids are growing up with these device from the age of 3, I'm amazed by how fast some can txt messages, these pepole are growing up with these devices and know how to use them so I think as apps become more clever with the way they work on tiny screens and the users are more use to working with them, your be surprised by what people can do.
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Oh god, not another one of these threads...
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I think its interesting how MacOSX with its imminent release of Lion adopting the application phenomenon is a sign of where everything is heading and google looking to release ChromeOS i think this will be the war that will be waged.
Google Chrome OS....an OS using a web browser for the basis of its GUI...this is the worst idea I have ever seen (and yes I have seen it and used it thanks)
So still going to be Apple and Microsoft for the foreseeable future then.....
*makes fake nonchalant 'hooray' near silent chear*
As for those praising the iPad...the 'internet pad' well....something costing half a grand and not being able to go on flash based websites of any kind is dumb in the extreme and something Medhi Ali would sign off on....so yeah it is kind of Amiga-ish sure...in the worst possible tradition ;)
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I kind of doubt iPhones will. They are designed to stop working eventually, and their reliance on a subscriptions for one of it's primary functions makes it unlikely.
Which is why I mentioned the iPad and other tablets. ;)
Also, notebook sales, of which netbooks have been a sizable portion of, are on the decline.
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Have you looked at http://justiphoneart.com/
Now I'm not saying everyone can produce high quality work on iphones or other smart phones I'm just amazed that these tiny devices let you do all this and more. Plus lets not forget kids are growing up with these device from the age of 3, I'm amazed by how fast some can txt messages, these pepole are growing up with these devices and know how to use them so I think as apps become more clever with the way they work on tiny screens and the users are more use to working with them, your be surprised by what people can do.
I look at it from the point of view of amazing scientific creations. The 1900s had all manner of technological revolutions...the 2000s so far have produced facepuke and younoob and an internet phone that doesn't go on flash based websites as our gadgets for the decade (as awarded by survey results of 1000s of people). Today cars are no different technically spark/bang/smoke tech, space travel is still pathetic 80 years after rocket tech was born, planes still use the same rubbish technology, the genome project has not cured bugger all cancers or anything else. As Save2600 says we talk more but the it is all unproductive talk going on these days and outside the computer industry there is sod all innovation and revolution.
And even CPU speed is going to hit the wall soon with everyone going multicore....which is no substitute for raw gigahertz at all.
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Which is why I mentioned the iPad and other tablets. ;)
Also, notebook sales, of which netbooks have been a sizable portion of, are on the decline.
All laptop sales will decline, in the last 10 years laptops have gone from getting closer to a desktop machine in capability and back to the bare minimum to run the OS. And after people realised Netbooks were just a fad and you can't do any real work on them so are not actual replacements for a 12" laptop the sales naturally will tail off.
Go into any shop today and see if you can find a new laptop for sale that can run the 2002 game Battlefield 1942....didn't think so ;) All you get today are Facebook/youtube capable dual core multi gigabyte bollox really, and this sours it for people who believe laptops are ONLY capable of this level of performance.
Which is funny because due to such lame programming by most games coders towards the end of the Amiga's life joe public assumed Amiga 1200s were barely superior to mid 80 Nintendo NES consoles technically and light years behind your average £1000 386SX PC from Amstrad. It would seam everything gets dumbed down to the lowest common denominator they can get away with these days *sigh*
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Cobblers... they're toys/gimmicks that sad gits buy just to be trendy, how do you do D.T.P. on an I phone ? where to you plug in the printer ?, where's the video output to connect up to a monitor ? etc.. etc..
As I say nothing but toys/gimmicks that mugs buy just to try and look cool, sad really... :(
There are smart phones with video output (composite or HDMI depending on the phone) & USB On The Go (which allows USB printers to be plugged in ). Eventually they will be cheap enough to be standard on all phones, but at the moment people don't want to pay money for something they will never use.
Most phones come with either bluetooth or wifi, which can be used for printing.
The software isn't necessarily there, that would be where you could make a difference. However you'd be better off hacking Android around.
DTP? really? when was the last time anyone actually did DTP?
And after people realised Netbooks were just a fad and you can't do any real work on them so are not actual replacements for a 12" laptop the sales naturally will tail off.
Go into any shop today and see if you can find a new laptop for sale that can run the 2002 game Battlefield 1942....didn't think so ;) All you get today are Facebook/youtube capable dual core multi gigabyte bollox really, and this sours it for people who believe laptops are ONLY capable of this level of performance.
The Asus 1016P is a good netbook for homework/web/social etc. It's not for gamers, but you shouldn't expect it for the price. There is an nvidia ion based version that is more expensive and will do better for games, but if you're in the minority of people that play PC games then yes don't buy a netbook.
However, you need to visit different shops. There are very capable systems out there, you'll pay more than that the price of a desktop (like you always did) and you won't get as good a performance as a desktop (like you always did) but you should at least be able to get a reasonable experience with games from 2008.
My laptop is nearly three years old and it can run crysis & I'm looking to upgrade because it's slow compared to what is available now.
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Have you looked at http://justiphoneart.com/
Now I'm not saying everyone can produce high quality work on iphones or other smart phones I'm just amazed that these tiny devices let you do all this and more. Plus lets not forget kids are growing up with these device from the age of 3, I'm amazed by how fast some can txt messages, these pepole are growing up with these devices and know how to use them so I think as apps become more clever with the way they work on tiny screens and the users are more use to working with them, your be surprised by what people can do.
Yes, very good, that still doesn't change the fact that a 4ins screen simply isn't up to some jobs. Yes, you can do truly astonishing things with smart phones. But for some tasks, a larger screen is always going to be needed.
That is all, the processing power is there, ram, OS and software is pretty much bob on. But the form factor simply cannot lend itself to some tasks, now plug it into a bigger screen and you're good to go however.
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There are smart phones with video output (composite or HDMI depending on the phone) & USB On The Go (which allows USB printers to be plugged in ). Eventually they will be cheap enough to be standard on all phones, but at the moment people don't want to pay money for something they will never use.
Most phones come with either bluetooth or wifi, which can be used for printing.
The software isn't necessarily there, that would be where you could make a difference. However you'd be better off hacking Android around.
Look, stop telling me porky pies here and trying to shatter my illusion than all mobile phones are evil... :(
Mobile phone with video output... PAH... next thing you'll be trying to tell me you can actually make phone calls with them... :lol:
I'm off back to the dark ages for now (pre 1990) where I can live safe and sound in me own little world... :)
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Mobile phone with video output... PAH... next thing you'll be trying to tell me you can actually make phone calls with them... :lol:
http://androidcommunity.com/acer-stream-gets-official-amoled-1ghz-and-hdmi-20100527/
Making phone calls is pretty standard, some phones manage it better than others. Although it is an optional extra for apple (iphone vs ipod touch).
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Yes, very good, that still doesn't change the fact that a 4ins screen simply isn't up to some jobs. Yes, you can do truly astonishing things with smart phones. But for some tasks, a larger screen is always going to be needed.
That is all, the processing power is there, ram, OS and software is pretty much bob on. But the form factor simply cannot lend itself to some tasks, now plug it into a bigger screen and you're good to go however.
How very dare you! Watching HD content on a 640x480 class screen in glorious monophonic sound (1kHz-8kHz speaker response) is the pinnacle of of home cinema!
No, you're right. It's all horses for courses.
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All laptop sales will decline, in the last 10 years laptops have gone from getting closer to a desktop machine in capability and back to the bare minimum to run the OS. And after people realised Netbooks were just a fad and you can't do any real work on them so are not actual replacements for a 12" laptop the sales naturally will tail off.
Go into any shop today and see if you can find a new laptop for sale that can run the 2002 game Battlefield 1942....didn't think so ;) All you get today are Facebook/youtube capable dual core multi gigabyte bollox really, and this sours it for people who believe laptops are ONLY capable of this level of performance.
Which is funny because due to such lame programming by most games coders towards the end of the Amiga's life joe public assumed Amiga 1200s were barely superior to mid 80 Nintendo NES consoles technically and light years behind your average £1000 386SX PC from Amstrad. It would seam everything gets dumbed down to the lowest common denominator they can get away with these days *sigh*
That's my point! The role which those crappy "multi-gigabyte bollox" are designed to fill are being taken over by tablets and smartphones. At the same time, PC gaming is on a rapid decline and console sales are still going strong.
We are heading for a more specialized computing culture, where small cheap devices like tablets and crappy notebooks and netbooks constitutes the bulk of private computing needs. Heavy hardware-intensive gaming will be done on consoles, and the only uses for real computers will be in the corporate world and the enthusiast market.
I miss the days when playing with Amos was cool. :(
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How very dare you! Watching HD content on a 640x480 class screen in glorious monophonic sound (1kHz-8kHz speaker response) is the pinnacle of of home cinema!
No, you're right. It's all horses for courses.
Simple solution: stereo headphones, and hold the screen closer to your face to simulate a 50" screen. Sorted.
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moto
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Simple solution: stereo headphones, and hold the screen closer to your face to simulate a 50" screen. Sorted.
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moto
(http://images.memegenerator.net/File/16948/MediumThumbnail.jpg)
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Eh? What's Hugh Laurie/House got to do with my obviously fantastic idea?
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Dr. House does not approve - he deceives.
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Eh? What's Hugh Laurie/House got to do with my obviously fantastic idea?
He's just... er... giving it the thumbs up, obviously. In no way sarcastically, either, I mean look at his face... :lol:
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OIC. I didn't really interpret that facial expression as sarcastic. :shrug:
Even though I know he's a horrible example of humanity, I idolise House for some reason...
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OIC. I didn't really interpret that facial expression as sarcastic. :shrug:
Even though I know he's a horrible example of humanity, I idolise House for some reason...
I just keep waiting for him to come out with a blackadder-era-ism...
10 to go!
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I just keep waiting for him to come out with a blackadder-era-ism...
The closest I saw was when he put on an English accent when he called another doctor :) It's so easy to forget it's him actually; his accent is so convincing and he plays the character so well that it's really weird think that it's the same guy :)
10 to go!
Grumble grumble............
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Rowan Atkinson as a patient with Lupus would be the ultimate House episode. I would happily watch it on my cell phone's 1.7" screen.
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Rowan Atkinson as a patient with Lupus would be the ultimate House episode. I would happily watch it on my cell phone's 1.7" screen.
Just add Stephen Fry as a rival consultant and that would be the best episode ever. And maybe the woman who played Nursie. As a nurse.
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That would be pure, uncut win!
Don't forget Tim McInnery as some conniving, ass-kissing specialist that is constantly sucking up to Stephen Fry's consultant character.
Someone should write in and suggest it as a seasonal special for next year.
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It would be the ultimate Brit overload; I doubt the World is ready.
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It would be the ultimate Brit overload; I doubt the World is ready.
No, it would be...
Best. Episode. Ever.
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That would be pure, uncut win!
Don't forget Tim McInnery as some conniving, ass-kissing specialist that is constantly sucking up to Stephen Fry's consultant character.
Someone should write in and suggest it as a seasonal special for next year.
I bet loads of Bladder/House fans already have ;)
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I bet loads of Bladder/House fans already have ;)
What we need then is a concerted campaign!
Maybe signing the letters "P.S. We know where you live." would add some weight to our plea? :lol:
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No, it would be...
Best. Episode. Ever.
I think it would be justified to say it would be the Best. Episode. EVAR!!1[/i][/b] (please note the underline/italic/bold power combo)
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Formatting adds up to more than the sum of its parts. But don't go combining them without knowing what power you're meddling with!
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I have trained Forum-fu for many moons now. I am ready to unleash true power upon the Coffee house-section!
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Don't you mean true power?
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Don't abuse the force!
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The irony of your statement about people not understand the root of words is fantastic, due to your failure to account for the fact that "twitter" and "twit" do not share a root :lol:
moto
Huh? Definition of a root word is a word from which others grow. Twit was a word first. The 'ter' in Twitter could be considered its suffix in these modern times. :lol:
Yeah, yeah, yeah - we all know that grammatically, the two words have nothing in common ('cept that some twits and twats like to tweet), but I digress. Besides, it's all in jest buddy! A pun really. Sorry, you took offense. Was just my strange American humor at work. haha
Can anyone else see those two people facing each other on The Electric Company coming up with a little ditty for this word?
Twit
Ter
Twitter! lmao
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@save2600
I wasn't offended at all, I was just pulling your leg ;) though in all seriousness, the etymology of "twit" and "twitter" are completely separate :razz:
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@save2600
I wasn't offended at all, I was just pulling your leg ;) though in all seriousness, the etymology of "twit" and "twitter" are completely separate :razz:
Ah... the the old pullin' of the leg trick, eh? Right, gotcha! Today they're separate, but who knows tomorrow!
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Must've dozed of there for a couple of hours... :)
This is worrying I can't think of nothing to say just now... :(
oh well, mince & tatties will have to do for now until me brain clicks back in... :(
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I think the main problem here is that the computer market has changed from the 80s... and not just the proccessing power available. When the Amiga first appeared it was a huge jump in capability over the 8-bit machines we were using back then. These days, any improvements are just marginal over an already advanced state of the art.
That's exactly why I consider desktop computing the last place the Amiga souls should try to reincarnate. One thing is AROS, which I consider the only viable 'future' for the old Amiga habits in the PC era, the other is what I imagine about an Amiga platform rebirth: it might be a tablet-like device with unique features smarter people than me should transform from dreams to reality. Something I can wear, for instance, which will augment reality. Think about a pair of special glasses that may integrate a GUI-overlay to the real environment and work with the movement of eyes, but definitely not a old, big, heavy, ugly desktop minitower.
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As I say nothing but toys/gimmicks that mugs buy just to try and look cool, sad really... :(
Yes, I suppose, but then again, I can play Angry Birds on my wife's phone while waiting for our sushi order to be ready.
I do prefer the desktop still.
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Yes, I suppose, but then again, I can play Angry Birds on my wife's phone while waiting for our sushi order to be ready.
I do prefer the desktop still.
Just go for a meal in Glasgow, you'll find plenty of angry birds there and they're real not just a game on a phone... but be prepaired to get your sushi stuffed in some awkward places when you get them really angry... :)
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Just go for a meal in Glasgow, you'll find plenty of angry birds there and they're real not just a game on a phone... but be prepaired to get your sushi stuffed in some awkward places when you get them really angry... :)
Lol. I think I'll pass. Raw tuna and bird mayonnaise ain't my kind of omega-3s.
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Lol. I think I'll pass. Raw tuna and bird mayonnaise ain't my kind of omega-3s.
You've just put me right of my dinner now... :roflmao:
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FOr a 286,I imagine "multimedia" meant "more than 4 colours" :D
Actually, even well before the '286 there was a rather neat piece of kit that IBM created called the IBM Graphics System. It consisted of two ISA (8-bit!) cards, each driven by an 8086 on the card, capable of millions of colors and some effects that wouldn't be seen again until ... well, the Amiga!
It was prohibitively expensive (imagine, you've bought an XT already, and now you turn around and have to buy essentially two more) and required a separate (and expensive) display.
But some of the real-time graphic effects you could get out of it were, for the time, amazing.
here (http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.jsp?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS183-145/index.html&breadCrum=DET001PT022&url=buttonpressed=DET002PT005&specific_index=DET001PEF502&DET015PGL002=DET001PEF011&submit.x=7&submit.y=8&lang=en_GB) are the specs on the card.
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Actually, even well before the '286 there was a rather neat piece of kit that IBM created called the IBM Graphics System. It consisted of two ISA (8-bit!) cards, each driven by an 8086 on the card, capable of millions of colors and some effects that wouldn't be seen again until ... well, the Amiga!
It was prohibitively expensive (imagine, you've bought an XT already, and now you turn around and have to buy essentially two more) and required a separate (and expensive) display.
But some of the real-time graphic effects you could get out of it were, for the time, amazing.
here (http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.jsp?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS183-145/index.html&breadCrum=DET001PT022&url=buttonpressed=DET002PT005&specific_index=DET001PEF502&DET015PGL002=DET001PEF011&submit.x=7&submit.y=8&lang=en_GB) are the specs on the card.
Very interesting. Thank you!
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I agree with save 2600 and while we can't 'see' what the Amiga would be like today, I think we can make some educated guesses by looking at other platforms like Apple.
I think most of you will agree that Commodore had more in common with Apple than Microsoft or the 'PC' world. Given that, I think we can draw some insight on what Commodore would have done:
-The AmigaOS as you know it now would not exist today. We know that memory protection and hardware abstraction is a must for any modern OS. Without these two technologies, your OS is just too vulnerable to outside hackers, virii, and malware.
All anyone has to do is write to memory location $4 and I can bring down your Amiga. People put up with this in 1990, people would shoot you in 2010 if your OS allowed this. :-)
Apple realized this problem around System 7 but by then it was too late to move the train. They were even worse off as System 7 wasn't even a true multitasking OS. However, like trashing $4 on the Amiga, it was insanely easy to bring down the MacOS in a very similar way. You can't just 'bolt' on memory protection or a HAL so you must look for a new OS which means your old software is probably not going to work.
Apple did realize something that Commodore would have as well. Nobody cares about the 'frame' of the OS as long is the GUI and software work like you expect them too.
Apple went looking for a frame to carry their 'Mac Experience' on and thought about NT, Linux, BeOS, and NeXT. In the end we know they went with NeXT which wasn't horrible but I thought BeOS was quite nice as well.
They 'emulated' the old OS to keep the software base alive while they (begged) developers to port to their newer OS. Apple actually had a very difficult time because WinTel was just so powerful that many developers wondered why they should put the effort into a base that had such a small market share. Adobe, I'm looking in your direction...
Commodore would have had to make a similar decision. Do you write a new OS or just add Intuition on top of something else? Do not think for a minute that writing a core OS is something easy. It is a monumental task so there is much to be said for bolting on the Amiga Experience on top of something else.
Since AMIX was done at Commodore perhaps they would have looked at a Unix solution like Apple? This would not have been a bad solution, really.
-Hardware: CPU
The 68k was dead by the early 1990s so Commodore would have had to look toward a new CPU (just like Apple).
In older posts, Haynie mentioned the Alpha chip I think? I know it was a RISC based CPU so they might have moved to PPC along with Apple. Anything is possible.
This will really cause people to flame me, but going with Intel would have been very smart. Intel offers you a great many advantages that no other CPU does:
--Virtualization as opposed to emulation is something that sells computers. Apple may not trumpet it, but the ability to run Windows in a virtual window or boot into Windows via Boot Camp sold many people on an Apple computer (me included).
I still do a great deal of work in Windows but I can run Windows on my terms on my Mac. Its a VMWare window that runs along side my other Mac applications. Commodore could have offered something similar.
Boot Camp, Virtualization, and WINE really come in handy when you have to run Windows software but wish to do so on your terms.
--Its also much easier to compile for the same architecture than going from Intel to PPC or Intel to Alpha or whatever. Most of the games on the Mac are just Windows games running on a modified version of WINE. This allows ports without a great deal of work. If the Mac was still on PPC, I think the market share would have continued to shrink...
-Hardware: Chipset
It would be interesting to have seen if Commodore could have kept up with companies like nVidia or ATI (AMD) when it came to graphic chips.
AA or whatever was after AGA would have supported RTG -a start for a HAL- as well as a unified driver model for graphics. Also, the core chipset would have to compete against Intel, VIA, nVidia (well, not after 2010), and others.
-GUI
In the end, I think Commodore would have continued to refine the GUI (what we loved/love about the Amiga) and this would have evolved into something very nice. Perhaps people would have licensed technology from Commodore for their own OS?
I think if you look at how the MacOS evolved from System 7 to OS X, you can imagine how the AmigaOS would have evolved from 3.x to a modern OS.
Lastly, the AmigaOS was great at fitting a lot of OS into a small footprint so the mobile world could have embraced the AmigaOS on PDAs, phones, tablets, etc...
Commodore had some of the best engineers on the planet and great facilities at their disposal. MOS was a great asset that could have served them well as they continued to upgrade the hardware.
I think that the Open Source community would have embraced the Amiga and there would be great applications on it in 2010 though I still think Microsoft would dominate.
Too bad we'll never know....
Cheers!
P
Very good write up and couldn't agree more Pentad.
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That's exactly why I consider desktop computing the last place the Amiga souls should try to reincarnate. One thing is AROS, which I consider the only viable 'future' for the old Amiga habits in the PC era, the other is what I imagine about an Amiga platform rebirth: it might be a tablet-like device with unique features smarter people than me should transform from dreams to reality. Something I can wear, for instance, which will augment reality. Think about a pair of special glasses that may integrate a GUI-overlay to the real environment and work with the movement of eyes, but definitely not a old, big, heavy, ugly desktop minitower.
Yeah, everything is a computer these days... phones, mp3 players, pads, even kitchen appliances. There will probably always be a place for the tower in there somewhere... at least as a base port for all those other gizmos. I wonder though if there's room for another player in the tablet market? I just saw an article today wondering if there weren't already too many OSes in that market.
I like the idea with the glasses... I read something like that in a sci-fi story. The guy had a "laptop", but used glasses that drew out the display with lasers directly on the retina. (ouch!). Sensor gloves on the hands replaced the keyboard & mouse.. the same laser drew a virtual keyboard. With a setup like that, you could bypass the pads, and go with something the size of an old school transistor radio as a portable computer.
As for Amiga... well best to maintain it's niches where it can... retro, emulation, FPGA.. should be enough there.