Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on December 21, 2010, 12:30:51 AM
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News from Rogue via amigaworld.net
Hyperion Entertainment has opened up their new Developer Blog to the public. On this blog, we intend to inform you in irregular intervals about news and developments on AmigaOS 4.x and others stuff. We kick off with a sneak peek at the Classic AmigaOS 4.1 with two exclusive screenshots, written by our beta tester Darren Eveland.
Enjoy the blog at http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/)
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I have difficulty getting excited about this.
Assuming I can sell my left kidney etc. to get a PPC card for my A1200. What do I get out of AOS4.1 Classic to make it worth my while?
If only it worked with Intel generic architecture..
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If only it worked with Intel generic architecture..
What? PPCs are "Intel generic architecture"?
Stoopid!
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I own two 233mhz 604e cards
I own OS4.x for my 233mhz
I will buy OS4.1.x for my 233mhz
I am looking at getting the 5V 256Meg Radeon graphic card at this very moment
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What? PPCs are "Intel generic architecture"?
Stoopid!
No it's not, which kind of is OS4's problem...
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No it's not, which kind of is OS4's problem...
Totally unlike that other amiga-derivative OS.
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Totally unlike that other amiga-derivative OS.
...which indeed shares the "tied to the PPC anchor" faith of OS4, but at least aims to be running on all relevant PPC mainstream HW. Because if there is such a thing as mainstream PPC HW, then it consists of machines like the e-mac, mac mini, power mac and power book...
Ben Hermans and the Frieden brothers on the other hand doesn't think mainstream PPC HW is a small enough market, so they need to narrow the options down even further to systems built in batches of 30 units, costing a magnitude more, while offering less.
That shows the difference in philosophies between the two - MorphOS aims for being runnable on as many platforms as possible, and if there would have been an easy way of making it x86 to run on generic Intel HW they would probably have done it some time ago already, while OS4 wouldn't, because then "it would get pirated" (or such strange arguments)...
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Hard time believing much money will be made from 4.1 for classic.
Back when 4.0 was released, NG Amiga was in a state of chaos. No hardware, no future, and then wow,, out of nowhere, the house of Friedenology released an opurtunity to run the magic OS built from the true source of the only OS worthy of the name Amiga - WB3.1- on hardware easy to find (but at a hefty price), it was mindblowing to the extreme.
It was interesting to see what the hype was about, but in the end, once all the excitement was gone, there was little in there pulling me back.
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because then "it would get pirated" (or such strange arguments)...
I think the argument was:
If it runs on x86 hardware, it would mean the user would want to try another x86 OS, if user try other OS he will leave AmigaOS.
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I think the argument was:
If it runs on x86 hardware, it would mean the user would want to try another x86 OS, if user try other OS he will leave AmigaOS.
Yeah I've seen that one as well (there are many "arguments" against x86), and that one is even more stupid. It's so stupid it hurts.
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If it runs on x86 hardware, it would mean the user would want to try another x86 OS, if user try other OS he will leave AmigaOS.
Yeah... MorphOS runs on MacMini, MacOSX runs on MacMini as well.
And guess what ? People are buying MacMinis only for running MorphOS... Guess having another OS isn't a problem.
What people don't seem to understand is that most people already got another OS (either on the same machine, either on a PC/Mac). So if they wanted to leave the Amiga, they could have done so.
There's no piracy argument: people who want to use the Amiga, will use it no matter what happens (and even if they have to buy an expensive Sam that runs like a 7 years old PC). If OS4 was available on PC/Mac, they would still buy it, since it would be a lot less expensive. And some more people could also do it.
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...which indeed shares the "tied to the PPC anchor" faith of OS4, but at least aims to be running on all relevant PPC mainstream HW. Because if there is such a thing as mainstream PPC HW, then it consists of machines like the e-mac, mac mini, power mac and power book...
Ben Hermans and the Frieden brothers on the other hand doesn't think mainstream PPC HW is a small enough market, so they need to narrow the options down even further to systems built in batches of 30 units, costing a magnitude more, while offering less.
That shows the difference in philosophies between the two - MorphOS aims for being runnable on as many platforms as possible, and if there would have been an easy way of making it x86 to run on generic Intel HW they would probably have done it some time ago already, while OS4 wouldn't, because then "it would get pirated" (or such strange arguments)...
What a load of rubbish I'm sorry but the fact is if anything is holding MorphOS back from being ported to x86 it would be the same story for AmigaOS. And before you call me an AmigaOS fan boy I would have you no I own a registered copy of MorphOS and I own AmigaOS 4.1.
Seriously a lot of people bash Hyperion for not porting AmigaOS4.1 to x86 but what of the MorphOS developers? Lots of people argue it to be the most polished, best developed Amiga like/inspired OS after all your signature says MorphOS is amiga done right well if it was done right shouldn't it be on x86?
So why don't they CHOOSE to port Morphos/AmigaOS to x86, is it because they want to keep the limited 68k compatibility without relying on emulation via something like UAE? Who knows but if you want Amiga like OS on x86 try using the AmigaOS4 rip off called AROS or try emulation like Amikit or win uae with amigaforever from Cloanto.
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...which indeed shares the "tied to the PPC anchor" faith of OS4, but at least aims to be running on all relevant PPC mainstream HW. Because if there is such a thing as mainstream PPC HW, then it consists of machines like the e-mac, mac mini, power mac and power book...
Ben Hermans and the Frieden brothers on the other hand doesn't think mainstream PPC HW is a small enough market, so they need to narrow the options down even further to systems built in batches of 30 units, costing a magnitude more, while offering less.
That shows the difference in philosophies between the two - MorphOS aims for being runnable on as many platforms as possible, and if there would have been an easy way of making it x86 to run on generic Intel HW they would probably have done it some time ago already, while OS4 wouldn't, because then "it would get pirated" (or such strange arguments)...
;-) ...I somewhat expected this from you...
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;-) ...I somewhat expected this from you...
See http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55440 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55440) :lol: Which row do you think he inhabits?
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I believe if Amiga OS is to have a future it has to be available on x86 hardware. x86 rules the market place and will people who have never used it take a look at it? If it is stable, fast and runs their software then heck yeah, people hate Windows for the most part for those reasons and why Linux and MacOS have been growing and Windows has been losing users.
I am not an x86 guy either; x64 is better but I'll always be a RISC guy at heart. x86 is simply the ruler of the market place at this time. If some startup company produced a superior technology (say a Quantum gate processor) with a good OS (like the Amiga OS) and could run users current software, then yes, it could go head to head with the x86 world, but until that day comes, x86 will rule the world.
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I am not an x86 guy either; x64 is better but I'll always be a RISC guy at heart
Erm, AMD64 (to give it it's proper name) has been the standard for "x86" processors for quite some time now. Other than the atom, what was the last "x86" you could buy over any old computer store counter that wasn't 64-bit?
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x86 sounds good at first, but then you will also need things like WINE and directx to boost the the software for it. Otherwise you will have to wait for people to port software. It means years before you can do anything with it. AROS is as good as it gets here.
There 'could' be a market for it on ARM devices though. It could have a niche in between the alternatives. It has plenty of games and apps to bring across with it.
I would certainly prefer a customisable Amiga OS on my smartphone or in a simple portable computer.
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There 'could' be a market for it on ARM devices though. It could have a niche in between the alternatives. It has plenty of games and apps to bring across with it.
Being a user of RiscOS (still having an RiscPC running here...) I must admit that even the port of a *native* (!) desktop operating system like RiscOS to recent ARM hardware like the Beagle board or maybe the recent stuff from Genesi is a task that really, really laaaaaasts! I wouldn't assume that a port of an "ARM-alien" OS like AmigaOS or MorphOS will be really faster... (except you have some spare millions for a bunch of coders... ;-))
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excellent idea for the blog..we needed it!
@ Franko
time to upgrade from that 4.0 release you have that you say is so slow mate;)
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For personal computers, PowerPC is lying in its death bed. For servers, and consoles, it doing great, but neither are much use for us. So that leaves a few, specialist boards, which are released infrequently and cost a lot, and often have the Amiga aspect as a secondary reason to exist, behind a primary as an industrial control board, etc.
There are two potential future paths. x86 (might as well go straight to x86-64 and never deal with the crufty 32-bit stuff), or ARM.
I can only think how nice an AMD Brazos based mini-ITX board would be next year with AmigaOS. Single-chip dual-core CPU and Radeon HD graphics (not going to set the world alight, but cheap_)...
Or how about an ARM System-on-Chip? NVIDIA Tegra 2? TI OMAP? Marvell? Or dozens more ... these are getting to the dual-core, 1.5GHz+ arena now.
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x86 sounds good at first, but then you will also need things like WINE and directx to boost the the software for it. Otherwise you will have to wait for people to port software. It means years before you can do anything with it. AROS is as good as it gets here.
So you would rather have ... NOTHING?
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excellent idea for the blog..we needed it!
@ Franko
time to upgrade from that 4.0 release you have that you say is so slow mate;)
Nah... Karlos won't part with his BVision and Hyperion aint getting another penny out of me after the the shamefull way the conned OS4.0 users into buying it and then dropped all support for it... :(
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Nah... Karlos won't part with his BVision and Hyperion aint getting another penny out of me after the the shamefull way the conned OS4.0 users into buying it and then dropped all support for it... :(
well I can't comment on 4.0 matters as I went straight to OS4.1 quite happily..though keep in mind that when new hardware starting popping up (Pegs, A1's, Sams, new & upcoming Sam460ex and X1000) I was pleasontly surprised that they had time to bring the classic users up to date with OS4.1 & incorporating modern hardware for the classics
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well I can't comment on 4.0 matters as I went straight to OS4.1 quite happily..though keep in mind that when new hardware starting popping up (Pegs, A1's, Sams, new & upcoming Sam460ex and X1000) I was pleasontly surprised that they had time to bring the classic users up to date with OS4.1 & incorporating modern hardware for the classics
I've got be honest here the Natami or the MiniMig AGA are the only possible future for me "upgrading" my Amigas. I've given up on the X1000 and Sams etc... don't really do it for me.
I simply want to be able to run all my old Amiga software like PageStream, ImageFX etc.. a wee bit faster (not into games much) and be able to buy and use new HDs/DVD drives and the like without having to pay 500 quid on ebay for an accelerator board.
Having looked at AROS, MorphOS, Broadway, OS4.1 and such I can now say they are not for me. Strange as it may seem to some I really don't want to run an Amiga that looks and feels like a PC or Mac or even use the type of software that they use. I now have a couple of Macs that take care of that side of things and I'm now even more convinced than ever that the Amiga doesn't need to try and imitate these machines.
For me 25 years of using the Amiga on a daily basis has never lost it's charm and folk can say what they want, but I'm happy using my miggies just the way gawd intended... :)
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I've got be honest here the Natami or the MiniMig AGA are the only possible future for me "upgrading" my Amigas. I've given up on the X1000 and Sams etc... don't really do it for me.
I simply want to be able to run all my old Amiga software like PageStream, ImageFX etc.. a wee bit faster (not into games much) and be able to buy and use new HDs/DVD drives and the like without having to pay 500 quid on ebay for an accelerator board.
Having looked at AROS, MorphOS, Broadway, OS4.1 and such I can now say they are not for me. Strange as it may seem to some I really don't want to run an Amiga that looks and feels like a PC or Mac or even use the type of software that they use.
And running AROS on your MiniMig or Natami is totally out of the question? :confused:
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And running AROS on your MiniMig or Natami is totally out of the question? :confused:
I think he's already expressed his views on AROS...
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I've got be honest here the Natami or the MiniMig AGA are the only possible future for me "upgrading" my Amigas. I've given up on the X1000 and Sams etc... don't really do it for me.
I simply want to be able to run all my old Amiga software like PageStream, ImageFX etc.. a wee bit faster (not into games much) and be able to buy and use new HDs/DVD drives and the like without having to pay 500 quid on ebay for an accelerator board.
oh, sorry I thought you still had your PPC card from your comments on other threads, anyhow I hope Natami comes out for you then as I don't think Minimig AGA will run things any faster than your current classic setup.
also, I believe AROS runs PageSteam and ImageFX quite nicely from videos that ClusterUK has out...perhaps you could try out AROS if you have an old PC lying around without investing in AOS or MOS licences:confused:
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And running AROS on your MiniMig or Natami is totally out of the question? :confused:
Actually, it might be interesting...
If (when) there is a good AROS port for either or those machines (and general classic Amigas), it might create a migration path for some people who aren't considering it currently...
Will be interesting to watch the development (intended) on that.. ;-)
desiv
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Very good news, this will be a much needed communication channel from Hyperion regarding all their current projects.
Varthall
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the AmigaOS4 rip off called AROS.
Surely you mean Amiga OS 3.1 rip off?
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Surely you mean Amiga OS 3.1 rip off?
Yes you are right but I also mean AROS shamelessly even tries to look like AmigaOS with the dock bar and the way it functions I mean all they have to do is add subdocks and the photocopy is almost complete. Yes the icons are drawn a little differently and they call it Wanderer instead of workbench but they are not trying to hard to make it a whole lot more different are they?
It's like as if they badly want AmigaOS but not on PPC so they are just photocopying it so to speak onto x86. Looks like a rip off, works like a rip off so it is a rip off.
At least MorphOS looks different.
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Yes you are right but I also mean AROS shamelessly even tries to look like AmigaOS with the dock bar and the way it functions I mean all they have to do is add subdocks and the photocopy is almost complete. Yes the icons are drawn a little differently and they call it Wanderer instead of workbench but they are not trying to hard to make it a whole lot more different are they?
It's like as if they badly want AmigaOS but not on PPC so they are just photocopying it so to speak onto x86. Looks like a rip off, works like a rip off so it is a rip off.
At least MorphOS looks different.
Those corporate pigs... errr wait ahh nm =\
I'm pretty sure the point of Aros was to create an opensource reimplementation of amigaos =D
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I'm pretty sure the point of Aros was to create an opensource reimplementation of amigaos =D
Yup, Since 1994....
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Yes and since AROS started first, then that means that amiga os4 is an aros ripoff :lol:
Someone at Amiga inc saw aros and thought yes thats it! Hey this aros idea is good, but lets make ours for ridiculously priced power pc boards, AND make it closed source so we can completely control it without annoying users getting in our way. Yes thats it! And in true post commodore amiga style it will be an almost total failure!
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Yes you are right but I also mean AROS shamelessly even tries to look like AmigaOS with the dock bar and the way it functions I mean all they have to do is add subdocks and the photocopy is almost complete. Yes the icons are drawn a little differently and they call it Wanderer instead of workbench but they are not trying to hard to make it a whole lot more different are they?
It's like as if they badly want AmigaOS but not on PPC so they are just photocopying it so to speak onto x86. Looks like a rip off, works like a rip off so it is a rip off.
At least MorphOS looks different.
However, AROS was here first so you could definitely argue who is ripping who off! :-P
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However, AROS was here first so you could definitely argue who is ripping who off! :-P
LOL:-) Yeah and if OS4 gets Gallium soon it will most definitely start to look like an AROS rip off.
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@Terminills
@Argo
@Haywirepc
@Takemehomegrandma
@Manu
Sorry to burst your bubble boys.... well i'm not really :) but AmigaOS4.1 is a continuation of the development of all the previous WORKBENCH/AmigaOS derivatives including AmigaOS/Workbench 3.1 which AROS clearly is a rip off of. So bearing this in mind yes AROS was around before AmigaOS4 but it wasn't before 3.1 and all subsequent advances to which AmigaOS4 and 4.1 is as mentioned a derivative of.
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@Terminills
@Argo
@Haywirepc
@Takemehomegrandma
@Manu
Sorry to burst your bubble boys.... well i'm not really :) but AmigaOS4.1 is a continuation of the development of all the previous WORKBENCH/AmigaOS derivatives including AmigaOS/Workbench 3.1 which AROS clearly is a rip off of. So bearing this in mind yes AROS was around before AmigaOS4 but it wasn't before 3.1 and all subsequent advances to which AmigaOS4 and 4.1 is as mentioned a derivative of.
:roflmao:
Hello Dr Hirudo, long time no see.
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@Terminills
@Argo
@Haywirepc
@Takemehomegrandma
@Manu
Sorry to burst your bubble boys.... well i'm not really :) but AmigaOS4.1 is a continuation of the development of all the previous WORKBENCH/AmigaOS derivatives including AmigaOS/Workbench 3.1
Ahhh, gentlemen! We have a techie troll in our midst!
So tell me mr Fairdinkem, if that is your real name, how exactly is AOS4 a confirmation of 3.1, where AROS and MoS are not?*
which AROS clearly is a rip off of. So bearing this in mind yes AROS was around before AmigaOS4 but it wasn't before 3.1 and all subsequent advances to which AmigaOS4 and 4.1 is as mentioned a derivative of.
not sure I even parse this paragraph...
*I'll give you a quick clue; Hypeion have gone on record to say that very little of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code was used in AOS4 and that parts of AROS were used in AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9...
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You know.. you guys are one of the two reasons I am not going to try Morph any time soon
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@ bloodline
And running AROS on your MiniMig or Natami is totally out of the question?
It's not out of the question I'll have to wait and see, It's just that what I've learnt about the Natami it looks like the best choice for a modern Amiga for me personally, but until something actually appears there's not point in me saying which way I'll choose to go... :)
@ kix330r
oh, sorry I thought you still had your PPC card from your comments on other threads, anyhow I hope Natami comes out for you then as I don't think Minimig AGA will run things any faster than your current classic setup.
Sorry kik300r, I do have my 060/PPC card, what I meant in that post was if the Natami came out then if something were to go wrong with my BlizzPPC I wouldn't have to shell out nearly 500 quid again on ebay to buy another one... :)
I don't want to purchase a PC anymore and as I probably said here before the couple of macs I've got are for the internet only I really don't want to move away from the classic OS3.x and original Amiga hardware as it just my own personal taste that I am happy with and the Natami if it's true will in simple terms be basically be a faster more modern version of the original Amiga hardware... :)
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@ Nicholas
Hello Dr Hirudo, long time no see.
Don't know who Dr Hirudo is?
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Why the hell a thread about a developer blog for AmigaOS4 has become to another port to x86 and MorphOS/AROS vs AmigaOS4 flamewar?
Have you all become insane or what?
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Ahhh, gentlemen! We have a techie troll in our midst!
So tell me mr Fairdinkem, if that is your real name, how exactly is AOS4 a confirmation of 3.1, where AROS and MoS are not?*
not sure I even parse this paragraph...
*I'll give you a quick clue; Hypeion have gone on record to say that very little of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code was used in AOS4 and that parts of AROS were used in AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9...
Nice of you to call me a QUOTE Troll only because I stand in difference to your opinion..... Sorry I won't bow to your peer pressure tactics.
Little of 3.1 code was used by Hyperion because Amiga Inc could not/would not supply the source code sorry my friend. Hyperion advanced AmigaOS4 beyond that which was asked of them by Amiga Inc and created the Next Gen AmigaOS that was a stand alone OS independent of 68k.
Why is AROS and MorphOS not a confirmation of 3.1? I think you already no the answer to that but I will go there. Whist legalities were being conducted for the intellectual properties of Amiga part of the Amiga community thought they would take it upon themselves to set themselves up as the TRUE Amiga successor whilst in the background the real war was being conducted. Hyperion is the end result of many battles as far as the operating system is concerned not the good intentions of some well meaning or opinionated Amiga community members. (May the flaming begin.)
I would like to remind all on the thread I use all flavours of Amiga ie
I own a Pegasos 2 with registered copy of MorphOS 2.7, AmigaOS4.1 plus I have a PPC Classic Amiga 1200 and a 030 accelerated Amiga 1200 and an Amiga 500 plus I have a live cd of AROS.
So I am hardly a TROLL waving the Hyperion Flag but I do have my preference.
Yet no one has bothered to answer why it is that everyone is happy to bash Hyperion for not entering the x86 frontier but not the MorphOS team for taking MorphOS to the promised land?
Whilst all along AROS is held up as Amigas messiah yet it seems that they are not satisfied by it and are still holding out for AmigaOS to be ported?
By the way I am not some guy named Dr Hirudo, my nickname for this forum is Fairdinkem as it has always been.
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(http://store.vesterheim.org/images/products/jpg/0050-color.jpg)(http://www.feuerwher.de/forum/feuerwehr_forum_troll.jpg)
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Have you all become insane or what?
I only see one insane person here. Just look at the one stirring the pot.
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yeah good on ya mate
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So name calling like troll/Insane even by moderators is perfectly acceptable but asking legitimate questions about whats going on in the community or discussing things to do with history is not? Or is this AROS exec not Amiga.org?
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ok i wasn't going to say anything that i cant resist... :D Agro never mentioned anyone's name BUT if you think you are the one stirring the pot who are we to argue..... I for one don't care about anyone camp since it all looks kind of childish to me, didn't know we had so many young members here.......... :D
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It's like as if they badly want AmigaOS but not on PPC so they are just photocopying it so to speak onto x86..
For your information AROS runs on PPC (SAM400, Efika 5200), as well as on x86 and ARM platforms, and real 68k Amigas (and Natami/Minimig AGA in the future).
The entire idea is a open source rewrite of AmigaOS, and has been so for 16 years now. Your ranting about AROS being a "rip off" is like saying Linux is a rip off of AT&T UNIX, or that Haiku is a rip off of BeOS. Writing a free and open clone is NOT ripping anyone off, unless you are thinking like Microsoft who consider open source advocates quasi-criminal and probably communist, too.
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Don't feed the Troll. Notice he is always saying the same thing. "It's a copy, It's a Copy, It's a Copy" No change in argument.
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@Forcie
For your information AROS runs on PPC (SAM400, Efika 5200), as well as on x86 and ARM platforms, and real 68k Amigas (and Natami/Minimig AGA in the future).
I am well aware of the sam 440 port of AROS which was of recent updated and being maintained, but you have to be honest that AROS despite being a open source effort has always been focused on being an x86 venture to realise the dream of Amiga on x86:)
Your ranting about AROS being a "rip off"
Everyone perceives me as a TROLL or to be on a RANT rampage. Yet I thought forums were for intellectual discussion and sharing of opinions which can result in heated debate.
I have been singled out as the TROLL when I responded to TAKEMEHOMEGRANDMA reply #7 of this thread which I believe BAITED the thread with anti Hyperion sentiment.
I was merely trying to add balance to equation by showing MorphOS has potentially all the same reasons for not being ported to x86 architecture as Hyperion do with AmigaOS and that the constant badgering Hyperion endure whilst MorphOS developers fly under the radar is confusing to me.
I also pointed out that whilst Hyperion are bombarded with anti sentiment for not porting AmigaOS to x86 yet there is AROS which looks largely like AmigaOS.
I do believe a rewrite of someones intellectual property with out there consent to offer it up for free is a rip off even if you do offer up a defense of it's not a rip off its an open source clone. If I re write twilight and keep all the major and relevant plot lines and call it DUSK an inspired clone of twilight and offer it up for free its still a rip off but I guess I'm a communist.
I hope people can see I am merely trying to have a conversation not just troll a thread but my guess is I am forever labeled in this forum.
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Thank you , Fairdinkem
Now Good Evening and Good Night!
This has gone far enough off topic.