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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: spavatch on December 09, 2003, 09:42:04 PM

Title: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: spavatch on December 09, 2003, 09:42:04 PM
It has to be done. I have to face it. Picking the best network card for my A4000. Which one should I get? Ariadne/Ariadne II or X-surf/X-surf II? Or maybe there are other ones? The ones I've mentioned are available (off-hand) so I'd prefer them instead of unknown ones. NICs are expensive but it's still better investment than using that old 28.8k modem when 15 Mbit LAN is around... :roll:
Please choose one and justify your choice.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: adolescent on December 09, 2003, 09:45:32 PM
I've heard good things about the X-Surf II.  Though, I myself have my good old A2065 that I've had working for 10+ years with no problems.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Effy on December 09, 2003, 09:46:38 PM
I sold last week one Xsurf for 51 euro + 5 euro porto on Ebay worldwide. That may give you an idea ...
The Xsurf II is still for sale brandnew as it is a new card ...
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: platon42 on December 09, 2003, 10:21:31 PM
Okay, I'm just posting this here, because it is an often neglected and unknown possibility. There is a small 10MBit TP network module for the Algor and Highway USB cards. This add-on is a bit cheaper than the stand-alone network cards. However, it is of course more expensive for only buying a network, as you have to buy the Algor or Highway USB carrier board (although this will give you USB and 512KB FlashRom). The card (combo) itself does not obscure a video/PCI/ISA slot because it is just as large as the Zorro slot (unlike the X-Surf/Ariadne). However, you don't get the additional IDE ports of the X-Surf. There were some reviews in several Amiga magazines.

This is just for information, not for advertising the product. Find out more yourself ;)
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Ilwrath on December 09, 2003, 10:28:26 PM
I was NOT pleased with my original series X-Surf.  It had some performance and reliability issues, to say the least.  My advice would be to avoid this one.  Mine caused mucho Zorro bus intererence, even before the ISA network card that is grafted onto it started malfunctioning.

The A2065 is a sound old workhorse, but you need an adaptor or 10-b-2 CoAx connection...  This is the card I currently have in my A4000, though.  It's cheap, fast (well, fast for 10mbit), reliable, and compatible.  What I SHOULD have bought in the first place.  I was worried that an old-school Zorro2 card designed for an A2000 might have problems on a SuperBuster-11 modern A4000, but it has behaved very well.  Designed back in the "golden years" of Commodore.  ;-)

I have heard good things about the Ariadne 2 and X-surf 2....  I haven't owned either one, myself, though, so I can't give a review.  
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Matt_H on December 09, 2003, 10:51:43 PM
I've got an XSurf in my 1200T. I'm not making use of the IDE or clock ports, but it's nice to have the option open. Heavy network traffic (downloads) interferes with MP3 decoding/playback via my Delfina Lite, but I'm not sure if that's a software issue or another general problem. Reliability-wise, I've had no problems.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: spavatch on December 09, 2003, 10:52:05 PM
I forgot to mention - it would be best if "the chosen one" had a RJ45 connector... Commodore A2065 sounds nice 'cause it's marked with C= sign ;-) but it's not so easy to make RJ45 plug fit that BNC socket hahaha :lol:.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: sdesros on December 09, 2003, 11:02:07 PM
My XSurfII works great...  Too bad my A4000 doesn't.  :-(
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: fragment on December 09, 2003, 11:16:20 PM
Quote

spavatch wrote:
I forgot to mention - it would be best if "the chosen one" had a RJ45 connector... Commodore A2065 sounds nice 'cause it's marked with C= sign ;-) but it's not so easy to make RJ45 plug fit that BNC socket hahaha :lol:.


Yeah, but you can plug a transceiver into the AUI port, right?
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: spavatch on December 09, 2003, 11:32:31 PM
Probably yes. But it must be included with the card - it's not easy to find one nowadays... :-(
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: tweek on December 09, 2003, 11:35:00 PM
I have used an X-Surf II board for about a year without any problems (it's still in use right now... *
I would recommend it, but I must admit that I've recently ordered a Mediator and am going for pci.

-Tweek
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Matt_H on December 09, 2003, 11:37:44 PM
A lot of older routers have AUI/BNC connectors on them. Maybe you could get one from a network room at an office/basement/closet?
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Doobrey on December 10, 2003, 12:16:24 AM
I got an Ariadne II when they came out, and never had a problem with it. It even came with the Genesis TCP stack which was a bonus.
 Shame it`s no longer made, like others have said, if you want a new card it`s either X-Surf II or the Norway and Algor combo.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Smack on December 10, 2003, 11:13:28 AM
Matt_H
Quote
I've got an XSurf in my 1200T. I'm not making use of the IDE or clock ports, but it's nice to have the option open. Heavy network traffic (downloads) interferes with MP3 decoding/playback via my Delfina Lite, but I'm not sure if that's a software issue or another general problem. Reliability-wise, I've had no problems.

Is that interference still there with the current versions of DelfMPEG (v1.0) and delfinampeg.device (v1.6)?

I'm asking that because these last updates include fixes for a problem like this: MP3 playback had interfered with network activity, especially serial I/O with a modem - most of the time the network connection became extremely slow and unreliable when Delfina MPEG decoding was active.  That should be fixed now.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: duesi on December 10, 2003, 11:22:40 AM
I used to have a X-Surf1 first. The damn thing fried my A4000 Mobo one day... so it was bad luck or the X-Surf1 is crap !?
I have an X-surf2 now.. this one is faster than the X-Surf1 and works nice
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Effy on December 10, 2003, 03:58:52 PM
Strange that there seem to be problems with the Xsurf. Never had any problems myself,and I have had 2 cards like that ... the IDE connector was very cool to add another CDrom but not for harddrive ...
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: odin on December 10, 2003, 04:37:06 PM
I've used a Ariadne2 on a Micronik Z2 busboard on an A1200 motherboard for a few years now. Works flawless.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: HotRod on December 10, 2003, 06:21:00 PM
If you want to use a second-hand card you could buy the IOBlixZII with the Ethernet-module. That's what I'm using and it's a great card. But if you don't need more/better parallel or serial ports it's not for you :-) .
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: SilvrDrgn on December 10, 2003, 06:47:57 PM
I have two Ariadne-II cards.  Used to have them both installed in my A4000T when I was using that as a gateway machine for all the other computers on my network.  Since have bought a LinkSys switch to put in between my cable modem and my computers.  No longer needed both cards in that case, so I removed one of them and am just keeping it for a spare.  The other that is still in my A4000T is quite a few years old and still working perfectly with Miami Deluxe.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: x56h34 on December 10, 2003, 07:11:39 PM
I've got an X-Surf II card and it has been working great for about 6 months now. Very easy to install. Thumbs up.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Cass on December 10, 2003, 09:42:43 PM
I have an X-Surf here. I'm pretty satisfied with the card, I have plenty of alternatives for expansion (IDEs, clockports etc.), plus 2 connection plugs (coaxial or RJ45, you chose).

What bothers me is the transfer rate: The theoretical 1.5 Mbyte/sec is reduced to 130-150kb/sec, via SAMBA. Some tests have given a 500kb/sec via ftp, but what counts is the daily use with the PC shared volumes.

For an internet connection, is more than you need :-)

The "Eth" modules for Algor worth considering though... (you spare a Zorro slot!), plus you get the USB ports (Algor will be the next expansion for my A4000 :-D )
________
Airsoft (http://airsoft-shop.info/tag/airsoft)
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: amigau on December 11, 2003, 02:05:55 AM
well, i've had a hydra, x-surf and a couple ariadne cards

- the hydra only has a coax port, so for rj45 that's out plus it's an older and slower card.

- the x-surf worked fine and has an additional IDE controller on it, pretty cool but on at least one computer the accel wasn't happy (tekmagic 060 in an A2000 I had) so I had to swap it out for the ariadne - it's supposed to be faster than the ariadne, too.

- ariadne had the least amount of hassles but you'd have to find a used one around, and it's not supposed to be as fast as the x-surf, although I never benchmarked any of them.

If you can find one, the DKB Wildfire 060 is a great card that has BOTH the accel and the ethernet built into it, BUT, it's only for A2000's not a3k/a4k computers, so there's a slight disadvantage there...

Holger Kruse, no matter what people may think of him now, had a good comparison of these cards on his site, not including the new x-surf 2 of course, since that's pretty much brand new....

http://www.nordicglobal.com/etherrec.html


good luck!

kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: SHADES on December 11, 2003, 03:03:23 AM
@amigau

>>"Holger Kruse, no matter what people may think of him now, "

Why do you say that about Holger?
Is he considered to be a reall ahole now or something?
I thought he developed some great apps for the Mig.

Oh if anyone knows where I can pick up a cheap A4000 network card, pm me please!!
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: aardvark on December 11, 2003, 04:47:31 AM
Quote
Probably yes. But it must be included with the card - it's not easy to find one nowadays...

Hmmm, I've got 5 of those transceivers just for when I get more cards with AUI ports. :-D
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Framiga on December 11, 2003, 09:25:34 AM
Hi all,

XSurf2 . . .one of my best buy :-)

Now in special offer:

From Individual Computers

http://www.jschoenfeld.de/news/news91_e.htm

Special price for the X-Surf 2

The advent season has already begun at our trade partners, now we want to announce it officially again: Participating resellers have the X-Surf 2 networking card for 69,90 EUR. This price is also valid for direct orders. You're saving 20,- EUR compared to the recommended retail price, but only until december 31st!

Happy X-mas!

Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: shIva on December 11, 2003, 10:05:14 AM
my a4000  works with one XSurf (1) and a HydraCOM.
Those work really fine. the only problem is that the HydraCOM gets slow at some point, and has to be resetted.

Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: carls on December 11, 2003, 10:11:06 AM
I have an X-Surf II and I recommend it strongly. The two extra IDE interfaces are also very nice.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: spavatch on December 11, 2003, 03:48:11 PM
Aardvark, you lucky bastard ;-). If you have so many of these then send me one... as a Christmas gift :lol:.
OK, that gave me an idea which one should I choose. As all mentioned NICs have equal prices it looks like the X-Surf II is the one I'd like to have. But there's a question. What does it look like? Is it an ISA card connected to a Zorro slot via a special converter, just like first generation X-Surfs?
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: utri007 on December 11, 2003, 04:05:35 PM
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Matt_H on December 11, 2003, 05:08:06 PM
Quote
Smack wrote:

Is that interference still there with the current versions of DelfMPEG (v1.0) and delfinampeg.device (v1.6)?

I'm asking that because these last updates include fixes for a problem like this: MP3 playback had interfered with network activity, especially serial I/O with a modem - most of the time the network connection became extremely slow and unreliable when Delfina MPEG decoding was active.  That should be fixed now.


You know, I think I'm still using the previous version. I'll check this out later today. Thanks. :-)
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: 1500 on December 11, 2003, 06:32:03 PM
No problems with X-Surf II although I have no experience of anything else.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: amigau on December 11, 2003, 07:01:16 PM
Holger is/was a great Amiga developer, he gave us the Miami TCP stack, ported from BSD, I believe.  I wasn't making a comment on him either way, it's just that many are mad at him for leaving up the Nordic Global site and implying that you can still 'buy' Miami when that's not been the case for many years now (at least 3+).  If you were on the Miami mailing list, you'd have seen how many people tried to buy in the past and were completely ignored, some were charged, some not...

it was too bad, because the software was GREAT!

kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: jj on December 11, 2003, 09:03:09 PM
Hi on the same topic, but a question rather than an offering to this thread.

I have been offered a commodore A2065 for £50


A few questions


Is this a fair price.
How easy/hard is it to connect the miggy using any nic to an xp machine.  could I expect full networking as u get with windows networks.  i.e file and print sharing(can access volumes from both machines), internet sharing and gaming.


cheers for any advice
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: tweek on December 11, 2003, 09:49:22 PM
Quote
What does it look like? Is it an ISA card connected to a Zorro slot via a special converter, just like first generation X-Surfs?


Exactly!

-Tweek
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: elendil on December 11, 2003, 10:09:11 PM
I own an a2065 and have been very happy about it.

Some years ago I bought such a tranciever thingie for a six-pack, but never got it to work. Are there jumpers that need to be changed to make the a2065 communicate via the aui port rather than the bnc one, or is the tranciever just faulty?

Sincerely,

-Kenneth Straarup.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Ilwrath on December 11, 2003, 11:59:30 PM
Quote
Are there jumpers that need to be changed to make the a2065 communicate via the aui port rather than the bnc one


Yes, there are.

I think they're detailed in the listing at Amiga-hardware.com
A2065 (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/a2065.html)

Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Doobrey on December 12, 2003, 02:31:03 AM
Quote

shIva wrote:
my a4000  works with one XSurf (1) and a HydraCOM.
Those work really fine. the only problem is that the HydraCOM gets slow at some point, and has to be resetted.


@shlva,
 Do you have a Cyberstorm accelerator in your A4000??
 There`s a known problem about it slowing/stopping the Hypercom cards down..
 If you want,I`ll find the fix and PM it...now which unlabelled CD-R did I put it on ???
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: THEWASP on December 12, 2003, 05:51:42 AM
How well does the Xsurf II's  IDE handle hard drives? How big of an IDE can one hook to it? I was hoping to had a BIG IDE to it and use for file storage for my BBS. I am days away from buying a network card and hopefully have my BBS back on-line via telnet.


THEWASP
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: carls on December 12, 2003, 09:59:51 AM
@THEWASP
The biggest drive I've tried with it is an old 3GB, but my guess is that as long your OS/filesystem can handle it, X-Surf can handle it too.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: spavatch on December 14, 2003, 11:20:54 PM
I've read a lot of good things about A4066 card. Any comments on this one? Maybe someone has one for sale?
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: jeffimix on December 15, 2003, 02:02:19 AM
@THEWASP

The Buddha IDE controller can handle IDE drives larger than 4GB (I think unilimited size acutally) and it's made by the same people, so I wouldn't be surprised if the X-Surf works the same way.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: tormedhammaren on December 15, 2003, 02:13:08 AM
@duesi:

It fried your A4000 mobo? How do you know that it was the X-surfs' fault ? You didn't put an old 2.5" HD on it? The X-surf don't give enough amps (300 mA+) to spin them around.

I've used a X-surf for two years now and I've never had any problems with it. It's a easy board to install, PPPoE drivers are included with it and it features IDE ports to. I think the X-surf 2 is designed quite similar to the X-surf with the exception of no BNC.

What do X-surf users think of the speed of their cards?
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Ilwrath on December 15, 2003, 03:12:59 AM
Quote
It fried your A4000 mobo? How do you know that it was the X-surfs' fault ? You didn't put an old 2.5" HD on it? The X-surf don't give enough amps (300 mA+) to spin them around.


I believe him.  When my X-surf died, it crashed my A4000 VERY hard.  Yellow-screen hardware error style.  Audible popping in the sound output on the yellow screen, and several other hints that something went HORRIBLY wrong in my system.  My first thought was that the motherboard was toast.  Turns out that the only thing wrong was that the cheapo ISA card grafted to the X-surf had fried.  I got lucky.

By the way, I was only using the network card part of it, anyhow.   I don't have any IDE devices on the 4000.  I run SCSI drives from the CyberStorm 060 SCSI option.

Quote
What do X-surf users think of the speed of their cards?


Mine was garbage.  I never got it past about 900Kbit/sec.  (110KByte/sec.), compared to about 8000Kbit/sec (1.0MByte/sec) from my old A2065 in the same computer.
(A4000 w/ mk2 CyberStorm 060 @50mhz)  

Maybe I just had a bad X-Surf card to start with....  I ordered mine fairly early in the production run, and I have heard quality improved later on.  But it left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I wouldn't trust another one in one of my machines.
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Cass on December 15, 2003, 03:44:48 AM
Quote

What do X-surf users think of the speed of their cards?


My answer: :-)
Quote

What bothers me is the transfer rate: The theoretical 1.5 Mbyte/sec is reduced to 130-150kb/sec, via SAMBA. Some tests have given a 500kb/sec via ftp, but what counts is the daily use with the PC shared volumes.


These are my results. The model is 2 years old. I'm wondering if this max transfer rate barrier can be broken, or is it a hardware limit?
________
Cumshot Braces (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/484/braces/videos/1)
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Effy on December 15, 2003, 03:54:38 AM
I definitely have had transfers over 150 kb/s depending on which site I was on, never had any complaints of any kind. CDroms work just fine on the IDE connector. Didn´t try the other expansion ports though. Anyway, I got one for sale on Ebay if anyone is interested !! Check out this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5640)  :-)
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Neo on December 15, 2003, 12:58:49 PM
I, myself have an Ariadne II network card.

It's using Realtek's RTL8019AS chip which has an ISA bus interface.

I use smbfs to access my server. i did some performance tests with SysSpeed to see what transfer speed I could get with different configurations.

What I found out was that how much I did overclock the system maximum transfer rate seemed to be the following.
Write: 230 kbyte/s
Read: 690 kbyte/s

Apparently this seems to be more a limitation of smbfs than the network card since tcpspeed still gets a performance boost. (Maybe something with interrupt timings!?)

Oh, by the way I succeded to improve the the benchmark values for opening files by replacing the 25MHz oscillator on the Ariadne II board with a 50Mhz variant. This didn't increase the heat on the board. (I expected that the Realtek chip could operate beyond it's specs without problem and it did)



Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: Cass on December 15, 2003, 06:17:21 PM
Here is an article (http://www.amigalife.info/inediti/inediti2-dossier.html) (in italian), that has some benchmarks for the x-surf:

Quote

AmigaExplorer 3 (configurato con packet size di 16384)

da Amiga a PC:  154 KB/s

da PC a Amiga:  210 KB/s



FTP (wu.ftp su Amiga e ftp da finestra DOS su PC)

da Amiga a PC:  380 KB/s

da PC a Amiga:  255 KB/s



Samba (condivisione file su PC e smbclient su Amiga)

da Amiga a PC:  144 KB/s

da PC a Amiga:  160 KB/s


Just to mention from the same article, that the same ISA card (of the X-surf) used on a PC can go up to  1 MB/sec, but on the AMiGA side hardly beats half the speed... This might be due to the ISA -> Zorro conversion?
________
MILF RUSSIAN (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/781/russian/videos/1)
Title: Re: The best Zorro slot network card
Post by: patrik on December 15, 2003, 07:03:17 PM
Are there no benchmarks using a simple software, downloading a file from a pc connected with a crossover cable using HTTP, preferrably to the ram-disk?

The reasons for this are:
1. Ftp is a cpu-blog.
2. Samba is a larger cpu-blog.
3. From the results, amiga explorer seems to be a cpu-blog too.
4. A piece of good written software retrieving files using the HTTP-protocol will use little cpu power.
4. Most new 100Mbit switches doesnt handle 10MBit NICs that well, thats why a crossover cable should be used when benchmarking.
5. With the ram-disk you are not affected by software which uses the filesystem in an inappropriate way for fast transfers.


After all, it is the performance of the NIC you want to try to measure, not the performance of your CPUs, right? Then it is a very good idea to try to minimize the CPU-usage!


/Patrik