Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: clusteruk on November 20, 2010, 01:35:25 PM
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As most people are aware I usually prefer to do my projects quietly and just hopefully deliver when finished. However, I am embarking on this new one that I would like to invite the whole community to work together, in fact it will fail if not a community effort because we need all version to be compatible.
As some may be aware this is actually an old idea that I first saw on an Amiga 2000 in around 1987 not far from where I lived in Harrow. Basically then it was a camera that had digitzed images in real time and they were simply processed to view the motion. Now obviously they had super fast 608030 processors
Now I want to try and support developers on all platforms as a joint effort. I will try and fund raise for this and any developers who want to get involved in a cross platform job please let me know. If you are already working on this perhaps we could talk.
I have always believed this is the way we need to interact with our computers, obviously we will struggle with speech recognition but the rest should be fine once our respective USB stacks have a suitable driver for the Kinect controller.
So what do you think, this has huge potential and I would hate for us to miss out on this, but again, we all need to work together and all flavours can benefit.
Steve
edit: http://openkinect.org/wiki/Main_Page
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Sacrilege!
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Its certainly ambitious...
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... and some might say pointless...
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Kind of strange replies, Amiga had this concept first and we should try and get it back.
Oh, well I tried.
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... and plain bloody unfeasable!!!
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Kind of strange replies, Amiga had this concept first and we should try and get it back.
Oh, well I tried.
Come on, can you think of any existing Amiga games that would benefit from the Kinect?
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Come on, can you think of any existing Amiga games that would benefit from the Kinect?
I am not interested in games, think outside the obvious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRPEns8MS2o
There are so many things that can be done with this, this is the start of a new type of computing where the computer can see and tell what you are doing. Good and bad uses, but unbelievable amount of uses.
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Come on, can you think of any existing Amiga games that would benefit from the Kinect?
Tracker hero? :-P
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Posted by Fransexy, this is a great example.
http://www.vimeo.com/16985224
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Kinect may be interesting for art, games and toys, but as a general purpose computer interface? Horribly unergonomic and not at all in line with the trend of ubiquitous computing, since you need to set the sensor up, adjust the lights and pretty much rearrange the furniture for it to work.
Also, the notion of "taking it back" to the Amiga is amusing, as if it was somehow stolen from the Amiga, and didn't just disappear into obscurity after the hype died the first time around.
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@Linde
I never said it was stolen, what I said was I saw this concept on Amiga first back in 1987 but it had no depth ability just 2d view.
I believe the developers went to sony and developed EyeToy but I could be wrong on that.
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Kinect uses 10% of xbox 360 cpu power for decode in real time all, you need minimun a ppc603e only for this
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Kinect uses 10% of xbox 360 cpu power for decode in real time all, you need minimun a ppc603e only for this
Depends exactly how it's done.
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Depends exactly how it's done.
The kinect is made for xbox 360 and the drivers and dashboard for kinect are optmized to reach to the maximum speed with the less cpu power possible.
Kinect need about 10% from single xenon cpu (Xenon is a tri-core 6400mips x 3 = 132.000 mips and kinect needs a 10% of a single core from 6400 mips = aprox. 640mips for kinect.
You need to know that kinect use real-time detection for process all frames "onthefly" and of course, need cpu power. I don´t think that any "open source kinect" can be faster or more optimized than the internal drivers made by microsoft (by budget and years of development)
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@orb85750
Just because Microsoft has spent a fortune does not mean that the open source drivers can not be excellent to.
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I'd be curious to see how this went. If i can help sure I will, but I am not a programmer (I'm a systems engineer). I think it would be a neat and fun project, even if we had no games for it. I am sure if you could get it to work then maybe someone or a few of those talented Amiga programmers may come together and create a game for it just for fun. Besides if you have an Xbox and an Amiga then why not try to have fun with them both. I'm in if you can use me in any way (people this isn't about making and selling a million of these drivers ect...) it's a project that may or may not ever work, but a project never the less and not meant to go comercial so stop being so critical and either support it or wish them luck :)
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Come on, can you think of any existing Amiga games that would benefit from the Kinect?
Why limit your imagination to that which is already reality?
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Sounds like a niche within a niche within a niche to me.
Pass.
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The kinect is made for xbox 360 and the drivers and dashboard for kinect are optmized to reach to the maximum speed with the less cpu power possible.
Kinect need about 10% from single xenon cpu (Xenon is a tri-core 6400mips x 3 = 132.000 mips and kinect needs a 10% of a single core from 6400 mips = aprox. 640mips for kinect.
You need to know that kinect use real-time detection for process all frames "onthefly" and of course, need cpu power. I don´t think that any "open source kinect" can be faster or more optimized than the internal drivers made by microsoft (by budget and years of development)
What about a slower frame rate -- i.e. not using all the frames transmitted? Or a lower resolution? Impossible?
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Tracker hero? :-P
Air guitar Hero! :)
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I was read on other thread about the good health of the atary scene talking about 68k stuff, they enjoy the stuffs they have, and now in the other had is the amiga scene thinking in kinect (for what????) but with the 68k classics living like zombies, theres something worng on this history...
No agressive words just my filosofical reflection of the day.
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Maybe not as infeasible as some people have implied here....
http://www.osnews.com/story/24014/Kinect_Already_Hacked_Linux_Driver_Released
Although I guess the bigger problem stems from avaiable resources on some amiga hardware. Having said that though surely it'd be (theoretically) possible to scale functionality back on systems with fewer resources.
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It actually looks like no one here can, or wants to, think outside the box. While I doubt that most classic Amiga models could cope with this, Even I have an 040 fired A2000 - no USB yet, but that apparently easy to fix....
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The kinect is made for xbox 360 and the drivers and dashboard for kinect are optmized to reach to the maximum speed with the less cpu power possible.
Kinect need about 10% from single xenon cpu (Xenon is a tri-core 6400mips x 3 = 132.000 mips and kinect needs a 10% of a single core from 6400 mips = aprox. 640mips for kinect.
You need to know that kinect use real-time detection for process all frames "onthefly" and of course, need cpu power. I don´t think that any "open source kinect" can be faster or more optimized than the internal drivers made by microsoft (by budget and years of development)
I always wonder where people pull these numbers from ... How can you know Kinetic needs 10% of a single core ?!?!
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It actually looks like no one here can, or wants to, think outside the box. While I doubt that most classic Amiga models could cope with this, Even I have an 040 fired A2000 - no USB yet, but that apparently easy to fix....
Better buy a USB board while it's still available. Stocks are running lower and there won't be another production run of the Deneb.
About the Kinect, for me, it is the NextBigThing(TM), just look at the various YouTube videos. As for the use on Amiga: Only the Deneb would be able to drive it. Stuff like this needs realtime Iso transfer support, and no other HCI driver on Classic/Morphos/Aros/Aos4 is able to provide this.
But even if you would be able to port the open source driver, and though a 68060 might just be fast enough to capture the two video streams in realtime, it is very much impossible to process the image data in time to obtain useful information from it.
Sorry, this seems to be a pointless effort to me.
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But even if you would be able to port the open source driver, and though a 68060 might just be fast enough to capture the two video streams in realtime, it is very much impossible to process the image data in time to obtain useful information from it.
Sorry, this seems to be a pointless effort to me.
Oh, ok, so because the classics cannot process this data, that is not not worth the rest of us to have it. After all I have 3.5ghz with Aros, and AOS4 will have 1.8ghz and MorphOS I believe up to 2ghz at moment.
Sorry for Classic machines but maybe bits can be used if we get this off the ground.
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I was read on other thread about the good health of the atary scene talking about 68k stuff, they enjoy the stuffs they have, and now in the other had is the amiga scene thinking in kinect (for what????) but with the 68k classics living like zombies, theres something worng on this history...
No agressive words just my filosofical reflection of the day.
I'm not sure I understand quite what you're saying? Plenty of us love our 68K (even plain 68000) machines, but we also don't mind seeing Amiga continue to progress -- even if everyone seems to disagree about how to do it. Does the Atari scene really have the same degree of enthusiasm (obsession) exhibited by Amiga devotees?
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Oh, ok, so because the classics cannot process this data, that is not not worth the rest of us to have it. After all I have 3.5ghz with Aros, and AOS4 will have 1.8ghz and MorphOS I believe up to 2ghz at moment.
Sorry for Classic machines but maybe bits can be used if we get this off the ground.
Which part of "there is no support for realtime ISO on AROS, Morphos and AOS4" didn't you understand?
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Does the Atari scene really have the same degree of enthusiasm (obsession) exhibited by Amiga devotees?
Yes. Unless by "enthusiasm" you mean "insanity", then the answer is "No". The Atari community in general is a much healthier one, without all the nut cases you find in "our" camp. Ditto for any other retro camp.
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Yes. Unless by "enthusiasm" you mean "insanity", then the answer is "No". The Atari community in general is a much healthier one, without all the nut cases you find in "our" camp. Ditto for any other retro camp.
Same goes for C64 and Plus/4 scenes too. It's just the Amiga scene that is full of mentally disturbed "Mummys Boys".
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Which part of "there is no support for realtime ISO on AROS, Morphos and AOS4" didn't you understand?
I fully understand the problems we face in impplementing this, hence why I cannot do it alone with one or two coders. The question is do people want to get behind it or not and that is what I am trying to find out.
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Just an update, it appears Microsoft believe in Kinnect for things other than games as well.
http://www.osnews.com/story/24053/Microsoft_Wants_You_to_Hack_Kinect
We have only seen the beggining of Kinect, and expect other controller models.
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Yes. Unless by "enthusiasm" you mean "insanity", then the answer is "No". The Atari community in general is a much healthier one, without all the nut cases you find in "our" camp. Ditto for any other retro camp.
Where's the best place to read up on the progress being made with the Atari platform?
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@clusteruk
Something wonng with your keybboard? :)
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Where's the best place to read up on the progress being made with the Atari platform?
I'm not sure about websites, perhaps http://atari.org and http://www.ataricommunity.com
I'm on a few mailing lists that involves Atari people, such as the Aranym one and various linux/m68k related, and they all seems like very down to earth people :)
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Had missed this Kinect, but investigated it.
This may very well be the last piece in the puzzle for the next big revolution. Robots for the masses.
Most technologies is here now. Chatbots are good. Voice recognition is good. AI in games are good. GPS is cheap and in place. DARPA and Honda fixed the ”balance”. Wireless broadband in place. If this Kinect gets cheap, it could bridge “Gamespace” with reality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3C5sc8b3xM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oMTKuzc__M
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Wonder what Stephen Hawking would make of it... :)
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Yes. Unless by "enthusiasm" you mean "insanity", then the answer is "No". The Atari community in general is a much healthier one, without all the nut cases you find in "our" camp. Ditto for any other retro camp.
But Amiga is far from a stagnant platform, so it's not surprising that there are so many very strong opinions on the direction that things should be moving. If it were all retro-enjoyment, the Amiga forum would be a pretty peaceful place.
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Yes. Unless by "enthusiasm" you mean "insanity", then the answer is "No". The Atari community in general is a much healthier one, without all the nut cases you find in "our" camp. Ditto for any other retro camp.
Yes... and sometimes envy.
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We have only seen the beggining of Kinect, and expect other controller models.
Maybe for dance or move some games for casual gamers, hope the control pad be the main controller.
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I'm sick of all this gimmicky motion control. There's just too much latency and imprecision to take it seriously as a way to control action games.