Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Amiga_Nut on November 08, 2010, 09:26:12 PM
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Can't remember very many of these, in fact only Bullfrog's Fusion comes to mind and it had scrolling as jerky as an Atari ST too :(
Any other commercial 64 colour Amiga games?
(copper gradients excluded in colour count, only those running in proper EHB mode)
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Can't remember very many of these, in fact only Bullfrog's Fusion comes to mind and it had scrolling as jerky as an Atari ST too :(
Any other commercial 64 colour Amiga games?
(copper gradients excluded in colour count, only those running in proper EHB mode)
A partial list of "supposed to" be
EHB
Agony
Black crypt
Dessert Strike
Conquest of the Longbow
Lionheart
John Madden Football
Simcity
Pirates
Elysium
Defender of the crown II
Gloom Deluxe
Abandoned Places 2
HAM
Links
Knights of Crystallion
Pioneer Plague
Labyrinth of time
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A partial list of "supposed to" be
EHB
Agony
Black crypt
Dessert Strike
Conquest of the Longbow
Lionheart
John Madden Football
Simcity
Pirates
Elysium
Defender of the crown II
Gloom Deluxe
Abandoned Places 2
HAM
Links
Knights of Crystallion
Pioneer Plague
Labyrinth of time
Thanks for the list. Isn't Agony and other parallax games just using 6 bit planes in stock dual playfield mode? Agony doesn't look like 64 colours bobs + copper lists really. Lionheart used another trick to get round the 16+16 foregroung/background limit too I believe.
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Thanks for the list. Isn't Agony and other parallax games just using 6 bit planes in stock dual playfield mode? Agony doesn't look like 64 colours bobs + copper lists really. Lionheart used another trick to get round the 16+16 foregroung/background limit too I believe.
Most likely, I haven't got round to trying them all myself yet to actually see if they're EHB, Agony, Lionhart I didn't try at all.. and Pirates was reviewed as EHB, but my from my memroy of it I don't really remeber if it actually was..the rest should pretty much be EHB..
There's still a few others.. one more just came to me, Wing Commander ECS is also probably EHB as well.. I was making a list of all the EHB/HAM games, based on what I remeber/rumors etc.. but can't seem to find it.. If I do find it I'll add in the rest.
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Thanks for the list. Isn't Agony and other parallax games just using 6 bit planes in stock dual playfield mode? Agony doesn't look like 64 colours bobs + copper lists really. Lionheart used another trick to get round the 16+16 foregroung/background limit too I believe.
Actually it's 8 + 8 for ocs/ecs. Only AGA has 16 + 16 (3bitplanes (8 colors) + 3 bitplanes per playfield or 4bitplanes (16colors) + 4 bitplanes) respectively). It wasnt uncommon however to use 16+16 colors for ocs/ecs, but its not dual playfield mode, rather just a way to save some chipram (data is in 4bit color this way wather than 5bits).
*edit*
Heh,... bizarre. I was going through this thread again and noticed the typo of "wather" instead of "rather". Clicking edit however and the text actually reads "rather". I've also had some problems with the layout being different in the thread than it was typed and appears when you click "edit". Has anyone else encountered any of these strange glitches? Or is this maybe a bit too off topic to so as to warrant a seperate thread ?
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Fightin' Spirit uses Extra Half-Bright mode, and Covergirl Strip Poker uses HAM6.
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IIRC, "Death Mask" uses EHB, and I purchased a Denise upgrade to play this game.
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if I remember correctly, adventure game called "Universe" was supposed to have many colors even on standard nonAGA Amigas.
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if I remember correctly, adventure game called "Universe" was supposed to have many colors even on standard nonAGA Amigas.
I remember at the time, Universe was said to use a special, carefully chosen HAM6 palette, that did not cause fringing. I'd like to know more about that.
Wasn't Labyrinth of time in HAM as well?
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Wasn't Settlers using EHB to produce the shadows of the men, flags, buildings etc? I can't remember if it was OCS or ECS compatible...
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I remember at the time, Universe was said to use a special, carefully chosen HAM6 palette, that did not cause fringing. I'd like to know more about that.
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I remember magazines at the time reporting they used 256 colors even on ocs/ecs machines, although dont recall them saying it was HAM. Im not saying you're wrong, I've just always been curious about how the got so many colors on ocs/ecs :-) I'd always put it down to changing color registers multiple times with a base of 64 colors, but that was just a guess.
I used to enjoy reading interviews with developers in the old c64/amiga magzines. Would be good if AGTW or someone interviewed some of the developers of Amiga software that used the hardware in creative ways in my opinion :-) (assuming theyre contactable).
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I used to enjoy reading interviews with developers in the old c64/amiga magzines. Would be good if AGTW or someone interviewed some of the developers of Amiga software that used the hardware in creative ways in my opinion :-) (assuming theyre contactable).
Definetly, think about all those skills and tricks they took with them when they left, i'd love to know some of the secrets, even though I can't code!
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E-Motion was HAM, too.
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Fightin' Spirit uses Extra Half-Bright mode........
Interesting, only have the AGA CD32 version so will track that down and see what the speed is like compared to stock 32 colour OCS/ECS Shadow Fighter.
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I remember magazines at the time reporting they used 256 colors even on ocs/ecs machines, although dont recall them saying it was HAM. Im not saying you're wrong, I've just always been curious about how the got so many colors on ocs/ecs :-) I'd always put it down to changing color registers multiple times with a base of 64 colors, but that was just a guess.
I used to enjoy reading interviews with developers in the old c64/amiga magzines. Would be good if AGTW or someone interviewed some of the developers of Amiga software that used the hardware in creative ways in my opinion :-) (assuming theyre contactable).
I'm pretty sure the 256 colour graphics of Universe was achieved using palette switching on the fly per scan-line but still using non-HAM screen mode on non AGA machines. In fact wasn't it identical graphics for both?
Could be wrong, but see if I can dig up some blurb on it from one of my Amiga mags.
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I believe there was a special version of A10 (flight sim) that used HAM.
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Interesting, only have the AGA CD32 version so will track that down and see what the speed is like compared to stock 32 colour OCS/ECS Shadow Fighter.
The CD32 version isn't AGA, it still uses EHB but it has extra graphics like the guy with the flags who starts the match. Shadow Fighter OCS used dual playfield mode which is two 8 colour (7 + transparency) so it's not a 32 colour game. The AGA version uses two 16 colour playfields so it's 32 colours in a way though.
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Wasn't "James Pond 2: Robocod" also EHB?
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Can' believe Conquest of the Longbow uses HB. The graphics are awful. That's the only adventure game conversion that i prefer to play on MSDOS with PC-Task.
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Well, it's not just about how many colours you put on screen that mattered, it's how they were used too. After all, Syndicate only used 16 colours for the in-mission graphics (even the PC version which used 640x400 for the in-mission graphics, no more than 16 colours were used).
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Risky Woods from Dinamic Software ( published by EA ) was EHB.
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Well, it's not just about how many colours you put on screen that mattered, it's how they were used too. After all, Syndicate only used 16 colours for the in-mission graphics (even the PC version which used 640x400 for the in-mission graphics, no more than 16 colours were used).
Reckon that kinda sums up why todays games don't impress me much, having started of with the VIC 20s 8 colours & the C64s 16 colours and being totally blown away at the time with what people could achieve with so little. It kinda makes todays stuff look like nothing more than a bunch of full colour screen grabs joined together as quickly as possible in order to lull folk in with that initial WOW factor and bugger the gameplay or heaven forbid actually making each game something new and different... :)
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Reckon that kinda sums up why todays games don't impress me much, having started of with the VIC 20s 8 colours & the C64s 16 colours and being totally blown away at the time with what people could achieve with so little. :)
Exactly how I feel. One of the reasons modern gaming seems so generic to me. All looks the same today! At least back then, when you saw a screen shot of something, you could make an educated guess as to what platform it was on. And that's partly what made the games and systems more interesting. Nothing compelling about generic off the shelf parts and standards. Unless they're put to use in creating an affordable and economically sensible computer to run an Amiga or Amiga like OS on ;)
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Reckon that kinda sums up why todays games don't impress me much, having started of with the VIC 20s 8 colours & the C64s 16 colours and being totally blown away at the time with what people could achieve with so little. It kinda makes todays stuff look like nothing more than a bunch of full colour screen grabs joined together as quickly as possible in order to lull folk in with that initial WOW factor and bugger the gameplay or heaven forbid actually making each game something new and different... :)
While I agree to a degree that the more retro machines can be used in impressive ways, I'd have to say that the same has in recent times come true of modern games too. Once upon a time modern graphics power was used to hide a weak game, but proportionally I dont think there's a lot of difference between generic use/abuse of modern hardware vs. hardware put to good use for the gaming experience today as there was yesteryear.
There definately is a lot of stuff driven via audiovisuals nowadays, but I think it's more a parallel to hollywood than it is to abuse gameplay.... big budgets, parent companies/investors not wanting to take risks, etc.
People arent easily impressed with modern titles these days, eye candy is a given whether the game is good or not, so it cant be hidden behind these days so easily.
Im a big retro game fan, the classic amiga is my favorite system, and I get a kick out of seeing what results can be obtained with aga and so I do get it, but sometimes I think it's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses. Although I agree gaming can be quite generic these days, it again isnt too far different from the amigas heyday, the main thing that's different is the genres. FPS's today, platformers or 2d shooters yesterday.
At the end of the day a well crafted game is a well crafted game and I'll accept all good applicants :)
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Was Battle Squadron in EHB?
I always thought that pinball would have been nicely suited for a HAM game.
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The CD32 version isn't AGA, it still uses EHB but it has extra graphics like the guy with the flags who starts the match. Shadow Fighter OCS used dual playfield mode which is two 8 colour (7 + transparency) so it's not a 32 colour game. The AGA version uses two 16 colour playfields so it's 32 colours in a way though.
So there is no 256 colour version of Fightin' Spirit at all? Hmm can't say I have played the CDs yet (CD32 is kaputt)
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Reckon that kinda sums up why todays games don't impress me much, having started of with the VIC 20s 8 colours & the C64s 16 colours and being totally blown away at the time with what people could achieve with so little. It kinda makes todays stuff look like nothing more than a bunch of full colour screen grabs joined together as quickly as possible in order to lull folk in with that initial WOW factor and bugger the gameplay or heaven forbid actually making each game something new and different... :)
Wasn't it max 4 colours on screen on VIC-20 from a palette of 16 (only 8 for inside the border though) Anirog Skramble for VIC20 looks pretty good compared to the C64 version except the resolution on VIC is pants.
Anyway each step has produced a marked increase in quality.
VCS/Intellivision/ZX81 to
C64/Atari 5200/Amstrad etc
Amiga/SNES/Genesis/VGA DOS
Software 3D on DOS PC/PS1/Saturn/N64
PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube t
PS3/360/£300 GPU + i7 in PC etc
Ok the last generation is the start of refinement/photo-realism sure but it is still very noticeable to me. Popup in games affects gameplay despite being a technical issue too.
You couldn't do something like Jet Set Radio Future before Xbox level of graphics and what an awesome and original game that was, a true class act. Ditto Shadow of the Beast on anything other than Amiga was a waste of time too. Every evolution will have games worth playing end of story.
But I do believe this is the last generation where any improvements in graphics are going to be barely noticeable and we only have 2 ears so 5.1 sound is enough :)
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I remember magazines at the time reporting they used 256 colors even on ocs/ecs machines, although dont recall them saying it was HAM. Im not saying you're wrong, I've just always been curious about how the got so many colors on ocs/ecs :-)
They have different tricks for changing the palette per scan like E-Ham and things.
Something fun if you have an OCS/ECS Amiga is to show hundreds of colors at once.
Load up DPaint and select a 32 color mode. Create 32 colors in a gradient blues or something. Now create a gradient going left to right across the screen.
Leave dpaint running and go back to Workbench. Load up 3 more instances of Dpaint, and create different gradients in each instance of Dpaint, reds, greens, yellow, whatever just get unique colors.
Now simply drag the 1st Dpaint down to the bottom 1/4 of the screen, drag the 2nd about 1/2 way, the 3rd copy about 3/4 or the way down, and leave the 4th copy of Dpaint up at the top.
Now you have an OCS/ECS Amiga easily displaying 128 colors at once on your monitor.
That essentially what some of these tricks do, only for hundreds of pallets (on for each line) and they do it really fast.
People always think Amiga can only show 32 colors (besides HAM), but that's not really true. Amiga OCS/ECS can show 32 colors Per palette. There isn't a limit on the number of palettes. So you can create a game with 100s of colors. Maybe the ground you walk on is 32 colors of greens and browns. Then the background is 32 colors of blue for the sky. That's just an easy example of making a game with 64 colors.
Same thing works in Hi-Res. Amiga is limited to 16 colors per Palette. In reality you can technically have 1000s of colors on OCS in hi-res too.
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There definately is a lot of stuff driven via audiovisuals nowadays, but I think it's more a parallel to hollywood than it is to abuse gameplay.... big budgets, parent companies/investors not wanting to take risks, etc.:)
I reckon with a lot of todays games you'd be better off just buying the movie on DVD and sitting back and watching it with some popcorn instead of bothering to play the game.
If I wanted photo realistic graphics just to run around shooting everything, I'd be better of dressing up as Action Man and running around the woods at the back of my house with a paint gun shooting the squirrels, much more fun & plenty of healthy exercise too. Don't think the neighbours would notice as there used to my odd little ways by now... :)
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A lot of amiga games changed colours from one line to the next making appear them more colourful.
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Well some messages above was mentioned Universe; i dont know exactly how the palette was splitted but from a technical point, the way i would have done (skills allowing) it is using together blitter and copper and have several 16x16 32 (or 64) color tiles with 16 fixed colors and 16 changing colors from tile to tile; that could have granted a good fidelity of the final image and also made the dynamic elements (bobs, dialogs,etc) look uniform and also reduced the memory footprint of all copperlists (just 320 instead of 16x num of lines); if i remember correctly, from the final credits the method was scalled SPAC (super pre-adjusted color) and is a pity it was not user in other games.... maybe they used 8x8 tiles (since is the limit of the OCS/ECS copper to have 8px scanlines) i dont know...
Saimon69
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Im a big retro game fan, the classic amiga is my favorite system, and I get a kick out of seeing what results can be obtained with aga and so I do get it, but sometimes I think it's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses. Although I agree gaming can be quite generic these days, it again isnt too far different from the amigas heyday, the main thing that's different is the genres. FPS's today, platformers or 2d shooters yesterday.
I don't agree. I've been in the games industry now for over 13 years, and it's gone from someone with a passionate idea, or a small group of like minded people, to teams of hundreds, and design by comittee. The commitee normally being dominated by corporates with no passion for games.
Video games play it a lot safer than in decades past, because they are so expensive to make. Obviously the coporate mentality was there in the amiga era as well, but it's much worse now.
That's why I moved from next gen to handheld stuff. Good stuff still gets made, but you really have to fight against the publishers, and generally lose.
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Was Battle Squadron in EHB?
I always thought that pinball would have been nicely suited for a HAM game.
The unreleased sequel to it definitely was going to be EHB.