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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: wawrzon on November 07, 2010, 01:10:13 AM
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i would like to ask if there are people here willing to test apps im compiling for 68k. primarly games at this point. as these are mostly sdl/opengl based im targeting the owners of well upgraded machiery. i expect 040 to be a requirement, as well as a 3d gfx card. i am trying to get a picture what is possible on amiga in this direction. usually i am able to test most of it for myself but im currently a bit far away from my mediator setup, also there might be problems i do not notice on my machine. since sdl, in consequence many if not most of the programs will require the 62.1 ixemul.library from bernd rosch.
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none here interested to have a little more software choice on 68k? how disappointing..
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I am, and many other are!
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Hey, i am interested. I have a blizardPPC 68040/25 and a BVision. I doudt that my CPU will be fast enough for sdl stuff..
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I'm interested in more 68k software, but I'll stick with my 030 and ECS video, thanks.
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I'd be happy in my spare time. I have: stock A3000, A4000/060/PIV, A2000/060/Spectrum, A1200/060/AGA, A500/030-50/ECS.
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none here interested to have a little more software choice on 68k? how disappointing..
I suspect you'll get more response if you actually had something for people to look at rather than just asking a hypothetical question. Also, good luck with SDL software working at a usable speed on '040. I'd be surprised if even a pacman clone using SDL on '040 didnt suffer problems with speed :)
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BPPC 330mhz with 060 @ 60mhz.
Voodoo3 Gfx card.
Very happy to beta test any app!
Always very appreciative of 68k coding efforts!!!
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66mzh 060, but no 3d
´Never seen useable SDL application for 68k amigas. I know there is many of them but using/playing them is painfull experience
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I am happy to help. I have a A1200 with blizzard 1260 040 and a Voodoo 3 Pci Card
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in case opengl is involved those who do not have hardware 3d could regard wazp3d as possibility. do not ecpect usable speeds on real 68k though. as for screen depths below 16 bit (say aga and such) ive already watched gl demos on 8 and less bis screens once, must have been mesa software mode. but if it works on planar aga, i would have to test.
as for sdl being too slow, yes thats true most of the time. todays programs have other hardware expectations. but some time agi i have already uploaded to aminet a game that is working fine. this is a question of choice. and testing what can be done.
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okay, so for starters here is blockout2. it is playable without jit on my uae. it is compiled against storm mesa, so you need agl set of libraries on your system, needless to say hw 3d is actually a requirement. i tried to compile with full sound support, but it is turned out by default. i cant confirm it works. and if it works i expect to slow down everything to the death. you can access all options from the game. the file will remain available for a few days. sorry its zipped, i was too lazy, my uae gets on my nerves.
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=BB79c5HnSTdB
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and since i have uploaded this earlier
the name is kuklomenos, this also requires mesa. no sound support yet, but there is no much sound anyway.
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=XN4K3EvYPreW
windows version for comparison might be downloaded here:
http://mbays.freeshell.org/kuklomenos/
it has been reported to work with 6fps on 060/voodoo.
you should be able to resize window. please tell me if this influences the framerate (much).
other thing i'd like to know is if cursor keys controls the movement well, just like in windows version. it doesnt in my uae, but it might be uae settings fault.
watch for if it starts to turn like crazy when holding an arrow key for little too long.
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yet another project ive uploaded for a friend to test few days ago. still online apparently.
foobillard. it has been stripped of a few features that amiga mesa do not provide, and the glu tesselation part had to be adopted to the available api. dunno how well it work.
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=6khstmYL2CGx
it is actually more of a proof of concept. its around 1fps on fastest mediator setup ive heard of. i have two other billards, billardgl and apoolgl, both slower yet. dont see much room to improve. might be a candidate for a warpos build, would i have a backend. generally i dislike warpos a little, but could give it a try, just not to throw away all the work.
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50mhz blizzard 1260 I can run some mesa based games/programs, but not very fast.
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How long do they take to initiate? I've tried blockout2 and foobillard. I was left with an empty window and 100% CPU usage. In blockout2 i was able to issue a break to stop it. In foobillard everything froze except of the mouse pointer and i needed to reboot.
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50mhz blizzard 1260 I can run some mesa based games/programs, but not very fast.
The ironic (I think that's the right word) thing is, as the documentation states even now, Mesa was developed on the Amiga, for the Amiga, by Brian Paul to implement SGI OpenGL, before there were 060 accelerators even available. Sort of the story of Vim, but graphical.
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How long do they take to initiate? I've tried blockout2 and foobillard. I was left with an empty window and 100% CPU usage. In blockout2 i was able to issue a break to stop it. In foobillard everything froze except of the mouse pointer and i needed to reboot.
i dont know. ive not been able to test them on a real hw yet. usually this might be that the loading takes quite long. in some cases unbearably long. i had no hope in foo, but it did look like blockout could work. well it seems it is too demanding as well. please try kuklomenos, this should at least work.
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Hello Wawa
Just some tips for the testers:
to run StormMesa apps you need in LIBS:
agl.library
agle.library
aglsmap.library
aglu.library
aglut.library
from
http://aminet.net/util/libs/StormMesa_Libs68K.lha
Perhaps replacing agl.library with this one can help (or not...) for some 3d cards
http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/StormMesa2010
There is this program that can serve to test if StormMesa works on a 68k configuration
http://aminet.net/dev/src/StarShip.lha
Perhaps you should join the needed libraries to your tests-programs
Alain Thellier
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66mzh 060, but no 3d
´Never seen useable SDL application for 68k amigas. I know there is many of them but using/playing them is painfull experience
Two last SDL games I ported on my site http://artishq.wordpress.com/
have got lores versions of which I was reported to be playable on your config.
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i dont know. ive not been able to test them on a real hw yet. usually this might be that the loading takes quite long. in some cases unbearably long. i had no hope in foo, but it did look like blockout could work. well it seems it is too demanding as well. please try kuklomenos, this should at least work.
This one started right away. I changed the screenmode to 640x480x16 fullscreen. At 8bit the game was much slower for some reason and it doesn't let you choose a lower resolution.
I got about 3-4 fps maximum, which is pretty disappointing for such simple game. Perhaps you could compile them to use the aglxxxppc libraries and see how it goes. This will exclude 68k users, but i think that they are excluded eitherway.
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@wawrzon
I'll give them a go too :) thx for your work!
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It's good that your getting your hands dirty porting some games :)
But perhaps it would be more use porting older open source stuff, rather than stuff only a few people can run?
Full marks for actually getting some stuff ported over though.
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This one started right away. I changed the screenmode to 640x480x16 fullscreen. At 8bit the game was much slower for some reason and it doesn't let you choose a lower resolution.
I got about 3-4 fps maximum, which is pretty disappointing for such simple game. Perhaps you could compile them to use the aglxxxppc libraries and see how it goes. This will exclude 68k users, but i think that they are excluded eitherway.
just one hint more: you have to run opengl games on voodoo in 16bit screendepth. thats the only hw accelerated depth. 8bit and 32bit not to speak of 24bit is handeled in software.
what concerns this particular game its good that it starts right away. thats mostly because it doesnt need to load all the graphics. you can switch on snoopdos to see what others are doing on start.
if there is much difference in speed when you resize the window it indicates that something is still handled by software from what i know. iirc voodoo has no line acceleration, what makes this type of graphics paradoxically slower. but then there is some trick used, maybe matthey or alain can tell more about it. as im home now i will be able to check back withmy a4k.
@artur: good to see you back, i wondered why didnt you upload your ports to aminet. accidentaly my only upload up till now was the game you have already ported and ive noticed just lately. would be good to avoid something like that. btw, how is owb doing? i have now cmake here but not enough experience yet.
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It's good that your getting your hands dirty porting some games :)
But perhaps it would be more use porting older open source stuff, rather than stuff only a few people can run?
Full marks for actually getting some stuff ported over though.
if you have any suggestion im open to it. but my skills are limited.
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This one started right away. I changed the screenmode to 640x480x16 fullscreen. At 8bit the game was much slower for some reason and it doesn't let you choose a lower resolution.
I got about 3-4 fps maximum, which is pretty disappointing for such simple game. Perhaps you could compile them to use the aglxxxppc libraries and see how it goes. This will exclude 68k users, but i think that they are excluded eitherway.
I get 7 fps at 800x600x16PC with 68060@75MHz and Mediator+Voodoo4 (not any faster than Voodoo3). I do use tweeked/modified Warp3D files though. I guess I should release patches for those sometime. They give a modest speed boost but would only help 3-4 fps so much. What is your hardware setup?
Wawa's kuklomenos and mazemarathon should work on a fast Amiga. Much more is capable if compilers and programmers could optimize better on the 68k.
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Hardlink >> I was quite surprised that Menobox (http://aminet.net/package/game/wb/MenoBox) ran on my Classic A1200, with just the Blizzard 1260 and AGA. Not fast, but it runs. :)
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I get 7 fps at 800x600x16PC with 68060@75MHz and Mediator+Voodoo4 (not any faster than Voodoo3). I do use tweeked/modified Warp3D files though. I guess I should release patches for those sometime. They give a modest speed boost but would only help 3-4 fps so much. What is your hardware setup?
Wawa's kuklomenos and mazemarathon should work on a fast Amiga. Much more is capable if compilers and programmers could optimize better on the 68k.
A1200, BPPC 603/180 68040/25, BVision. Your CPU is so much faster than mine. I'm surpised that you only get 4 extra fps. I say release the patches and let anyone use them at his own risk. :)
@wawrzon
I will try to examine the other games with snoopdos tomorrow. I waited for about 5 minutes each to start. I don't have a voodoo card, btw.
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A1200, BPPC 603/180 68040/25, BVision. Your CPU is so much faster than mine. I'm surpised that you only get 4 extra fps. I say release the patches and let anyone use them at his own risk. :)
I get something like 10-12 fps when I reduce the window size to approximately 640x480. The game is playable but a bit sluggish at this frame rate. With a little optimizing and tweaking by wawa, this game could become playable on high end 68k systems. I don't think a 68040@25MHz is going to cut it though :(. You might need a PPC version.
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A1200, BPPC 603/180 68040/25, BVision. .
aww, i have overseen your setup. it is a wonder that it actually runs on it. ;P
no, seriously, the results you get are already pretty good. the game is actually optimized for 060, as advised by matthey. i think 030 is totally out of question, but if there is someone who wnats to give it a try i would be interestd if it even starts.
im going now to try it out on my a4k, and check a few options for improvement.
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erm, kuklomenos: i checked again the source and realized the game doesnt actually use opengl functions. everything seems to be done directly in sdl what would partly explain the low framerate. also the relatively good results on 040/bvision.
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for those interested, i have enabled sound in kuklomenos, could not test it yet though, so i dont know if it really works:
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=hrdTTvadtCCN
it should be on 3rd ahi channel.
in the meantime i was able to optimize foobillard even beyond expctations mostly removing little gimmicks. but table cloth still doesnt render right. apparently there are further bugs in w3d drivers. it might be possible to fix, thanks to matthey, but if so probably only for voodoo users. i dont know how it behaves on other cards/drivers. still i dont expect foo to be playable except on winuae/wazp, where it already works quite well anyway. the heaviest burden is physics, so as soon you hit the ball all hell breaks loose. lol.
but we will see. there is still more to come. btw if there is someone experienced in building amiga libraries with sdi includes, some guidance would be more than welcome.
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i think the approach was kinda wrong. its difficult to get ports tested in advance, better to release and await bug reports, so im starting to do so.
here were going:
http://aminet.net/game/think/Blockout2.lha
this is a blockuot2 port for uae with wazp3d or 3d-hw accelerated amigas (tested with voodoo3), should work with 060, maybe 040. if there are problems storm mesa or most likely warp3d might need an update. this is in works and i hope will be made available soon, at least for voodoo3. please tell me if this works on other configs. thanks.