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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 AM

Title: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: SysAdmin on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 AM
DiscreetFX's primary focus for quite a while has been developing visual effects products for video editing solutions on Windows. We would sometimes also make these effects available at a later date for Mac OS X. Potential Mac customers would call us concerned because certain products would ship much later for Mac OS X if ever. As 2010 winds down and ends we have noticed a softening in our Windows effects business. We did some research and found that while companies that sell integrated hardware/software solutions on Windows are doing fine software only vendors have noticed a great slow down.

 
Our research results have come back and this downward spiral will only continue and accelerate in the future. Microsoft continues to bleed many key executives at an alarming pace. What do they know that we don't? Since we wish to grow and expand DiscreetFX we plan to avoid this destitution and software sales decay. For some time we have already run the business side of DFX on Mac OS X and this has worked out well. Starting today we will change the focus of our software effects development from Windows to Mac OS X. Now the OS X versions of our software will come out first and later the Windows versions will ship if ever depending on the product. The first product this will affect is MusicFX.

 
DiscreetFX's Amiga business and Amiga.org will remain unchanged since this has always been the fun side of the business. This decision should strengthen DiscreetFX and help it grow. We are only reporting it here for transparency reasons and for full disclosure to our customers since some of them are members of this site. Of course old products are still fully supported.

 
If you have questions don't hesitate to ask. Our first mission is to help our great customer base. Exciting times are ahead like the Mac App Store. A lot of our regular customers have changed platforms from Windows to Mac and we will now join them. Expect to see other software developers follow suit. We are usually slightly ahead of the curve. If you remember we were one of the first to embrace selling software on Flash drives in 2006 and we completely moved to selling all our FX software on Flash drives in 2008. Apple just started selling Mac OS X and iLife 11 on Flash drives last week with the new MacBook Air.

Best regards

DiscreetFX Team
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Heiroglyph on November 05, 2010, 01:57:55 AM
I don't blame you, you have to follow the money or lose the business.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: tone007 on November 05, 2010, 02:03:18 AM
For instant success with the Mac crowd, prepend all of your product names with "i."
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: SysAdmin on November 05, 2010, 02:05:42 AM
Quote from: tone007;589460
For instant success with the Mac crowd, prepend all of your product names with "i."

Even better "iLuv"
 
 
Example iLuv SportsFX
 
:)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on November 05, 2010, 02:21:32 AM
Does that tell you about the type of people that are abandoning Windows in favour of a Mac?
It only proves to me that Windows Vista and 7 are lousy or at least not what a lot consumers wanted after XP.
It also could suggest that the previous $3000 to $4000 price tag of Macs was offputting.
Now if only we can attract more commercial software to Linux.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: A1260 on November 05, 2010, 02:23:16 AM
you can just hear the windows users scream IdisrespectFX from now on :lol:
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: amigadave on November 05, 2010, 02:34:18 AM
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;589463
Does that tell you about the type of people that are abandoning Windows in favour of a Mac?
It only proves to me that Windows Vista and 7 are lousy or at least not what a lot consumers wanted after XP.
It also could suggest that the previous $3000 to $4000 price tag of Macs was offputting.
Now if only we can attract more commercial software to Linux.

I don't think the announcement proves anything about Windows Vista and 7, it only reflects the current state of most people's financial down-turn and that they are spending less because of it.

Commercial software developers are attracted to users and platforms where they see people spending money to buy their products.  Most Linux users want everything for free, so there are always going to be fewer commercial software choices on Linux than other OSes, until the Linux user's spending habits change.  (I would still love to see Linux, or any other OS take down Windows, or at least become a serious competitor, some day in the future.  Not that I have any religious dislike or hate toward Windows, but it sucks to have one OS so dominant in the market to the point that it negatively affects software development and innovation on the other OS platforms)

Edit: Come to think of it (sadly), most *Amiga* users (*AmigaOS3.x, AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS2.x & AROS*) want all their software for free, or at very cheap prices, just like Linux users.  This attitude does not encourage more development of new, or updated apps and games for *us*.  So, next time you think about the lack of software (or hardware items too) for the *Amiga* community, spend your money supporting our remaining developers and hardware designers/manufacturers, or donate to a bounty to get the software or hardware you want to see created for the *Amiga*.  (Oh yes, also stop comparing prices of *Amiga* software and hardware to that available on other platforms, because it is your choice to use, or not use the *Amiga* platform, and unless there is another choice of software, or hardware item that is available for you to use on your *Amiga* computer of choice, at a lower price, you are stuck with paying the price asked, switching away from the *Amiga* to use Linux, Windows, or MacOSX, or creating the *Amiga* software/hardware item yourself.  Comparing it to what is available for Linux, Windows, or MacOSX does not help anything, anyone, or make any difference in getting what you want at a lower price.)  If you want a bigger and better *Amiga* community with more software and hardware choices, do something positive about it.  Spend your money, volunteer to assist developers with documentation and/or language translations, learn to program for the *Amiga* flavor of your choice (or cross compile for all flavors of the *Amiga* experience) and create some software for all of us to use and enjoy, or get involved in a user group, or project that "grows" more *Amiga* users by generating interest in new users and/or former Amiga users, so they can do any of the above for our community.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Heiroglyph on November 05, 2010, 03:08:22 AM
Being in the video market, it actually tells me that Apple did a great job of courting the video/film market and schools.  Students that know a product go on to jobs using that product.

They've started to turn their backs on all things that aren't mobile, so I give it a few more years before their hold on the video market starts to slip away.

Until then, as a third-party I'd absolutely target their market as well.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Louis Dias on November 05, 2010, 03:18:21 AM
Why not port to AROSx86 and sell "closed" hardware and software solutions then?
This way you control the quality of the hardware such as RAID(s) and video cards ensuring that your product performs expectedly well on the hardware.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Gulliver on November 05, 2010, 04:43:02 AM
@amigadave
On the other hand, as much as I have seen and heard that speech, I come to think that sadly many Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers (but not all), want to milk the cow at exorbitant prices and lousy products, with the old tale of economy of scale, niche markets, or whatever.

This is an attitude that does not encourage the preservation of the Amiga as a viable commercial market at all.

They even make investments on unreasonably dumb bounties that after sometime they regret that they have supported, instead of focusing what the community, and finally, what that market needs.

Look, on the contrary, how succesfull some very few Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers have been, that they felt humble enough, and took the time to analyse the community´s needs and have provided viable solutions. The Amiga user market has indeed responded by buying from them leaving many of their products literally out of stock.

It is not that Amiga users are cheap. As an example, all Amiga users I have personally contacted so far this year, have at least spent 200 US$ in Amiga accesories this year, despite there are not many available, and even some like me, have spent well over 800 US$. But then most of the time I, like many others find difficult, if not impossible, to get a particular Amiga item, despite the money that we have already stashed for that purpose.

So sanity and cooperation have to work both ways :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: amigadave on November 05, 2010, 05:56:39 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;589488
@amigadave
On the other hand, as much as I have seen and heard that speech, I come to think that sadly many Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers (but not all), want to milk the cow at exorbitant prices and lousy products, with the old tale of economy of scale, niche markets, or whatever.

This is an attitude that does not encourage the preservation of the Amiga as a viable commercial market at all.

As hard as it is to understand and accept, it is not the Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers job to preserve the Amiga market.  (I agree that some degree of cooperation is desirable, and would hope that they wish the Amiga market to continue, since it is in their best interest, but only if they continue to make a profit from Amiga products and services)

They provide, or try to provide a service or product at a price that they can make a profit from at a price they believe the "market" will pay.  If there is no market, they move into other markets where they can make a profit, or they close shop and do something else.  Of course any reseller/developer/hardware_designer that deliberately price gouges their customers will not survive long in any market, so I am not condoning such an attitude or actions, but all to often the Amiga users cry about the prices they must pay for services or products without having any clue about the actual operational & production costs to provide those services or products.  

You have your opinion regarding how often Amiga services and products are being offered at "exorbitant" prices, which differs from my opinion about how often this happens, but if no one else is offering the same service or product to the Amiga community it does not matter what either of us think.  It is the sellers choice to ask what ever they want and let the "market" determine if the service or product will survive at that price point.  The point I was trying to make was that if we don't show existing and potential new resellers/developers/hardware_designers that there is an Amiga market willing to spend money on Amiga products and services, we will not see any new resellers/developers/hardware_designers and eventually will lose the existing resellers/developers/hardware_designers that we have now.

Quote from: Gulliver;589488
They even make investments on unreasonably dumb bounties that after sometime they regret that they have supported, instead of focusing what the community, and finally, what that market needs.

You are obviously referring to specific company(ies) and product(s) that you feel are not needed or wanted by the Amiga community.  My response to that is, if the product or service is not wanted or needed it will fail to sell and hurts only the company or individual(s) who have invested the time and money to produce it.  I don't see how that hurts the Amiga community, unless other companies see the failure as a lack of an Amiga community being left to support any similar products they might be thinking of producing.

Quote from: Gulliver;589488
Look, on the contrary, how succesfull some very few Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers have been, that they felt humble enough, and took the time to analyse the community´s needs and have provided viable solutions.

I don't understand how this point is related to what I wrote.  Good products at prices the community is willing to pay succeed and bad ones, or ones that are priced too high, don't succeed.

Quote from: Gulliver;589488
The Amiga user market has indeed responded by buying from them leaving many of their products literally out of stock.

It is not that Amiga users are cheap. As an example, all Amiga users I have personally contacted so far this year, have at least spent 200 US$ in Amiga accesories this year, despite there are not many available, and even some like me, have spent well over 800 US$. But then most of the time I, like many others find difficult, if not impossible, to get a particular Amiga item, despite the money that we have already stashed for that purpose.

How much of the money above that you mentioned was spent on software (not counting the OS)?  My guess is zero, or very close to it.  My comparison of Amiga users to Linux users was mostly in regard to the willingness of the users to spend money on 3rd party software, not hardware.  I don't know too many users of any platform that expect to get their hardware for free.  I could have been more specific and excluded all hardware from my message, but chose to be inclusive, instead of software specific.  What is lacking from the Amiga community today, the availability of new, modern software to bring us closer to having a system we can use for more of our computing needs, or hardware to run the *Amiga* OS of your choice?  My opinion says (now that we have at least SOME hardware available) we need more developers and 3rd party software and games much more than hardware to increase the number of users and by having more users, we will see more developers and larger production runs of hardware.

Quote from: Gulliver;589488
So sanity and cooperation have to work both ways :)

I totally agree!
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Gulliver on November 05, 2010, 06:41:27 AM
@amigadave
Well, basicly I got the wrong idea on what was the concept you were wishing to elaborate on your previous post.

I see we agree on many things. And yes, you are right in that nearly an 80 percent of the money (and even more sometimes) Amiga users spend, is aimed at hardware. But then it is a chicken-egg situation: very little good Amiga software is available to buy -> few users buy that stuff, and they dont spend that much because there is not that much worth of it.

Yes, we need to support good resellers/developers/hardware_designers and their products. But, in the same way I must say, that when we usually come across one of those not so good ones, we unfortunately have to tolerate their rantings, and stand their "blame the Amiga community for my failure as a business venture". And they then add to that, the fact that as an example, no one supported their lunatic bounties, as an argument for their biased view.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: bloodline on November 05, 2010, 08:04:49 AM
Sounds like what I am seeing in my personal life... 6 years ago I didn't know anyone with a Mac... Now I can think of 14 people off the top of my head who all own a Mac (who didn't before)... And all but 3 of them bought MacBooks... The other 3 bought iMacs... The shift to internet based applications has made the OS less important, and people want a hardware/software combo that just works.

I'm not including all the people I know who have iPhones an or iPads and a PC... @karlos give Objective-C a chance... If this trend continues it will likely be one of the dominant programming languages of the future ;)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on November 05, 2010, 10:52:49 AM
Bringing up my old "We need an app store" thread...
If you have a number of $5 (max $30) apps/games easily available people will spend their money, generously. We just don't want to spend $80 on the classic disc based game or $130+ on some productivity software that may end up sucking.
I hope there is a lot development for AROS because I will happily jumped over to that, but only if it has some promising developers for it. If there is nothing, but complain that "there is no money", "it's not worth it, I could develop on system x", I will be hesitant.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: fishy_fiz on November 05, 2010, 12:10:00 PM
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;589463
Does that tell you about the type of people that are abandoning Windows in favour of a Mac?
It only proves to me that Windows Vista and 7 are lousy or at least not what a lot consumers wanted after XP.
It also could suggest that the previous $3000 to $4000 price tag of Macs was offputting.
Now if only we can attract more commercial software to Linux.



Actually, to me it suggests that 1, there's a heck of a lot more competition in the Windows world, 2, there's a lot more piracy in the Windows world, and 3, there's a lot more free options in the Windows world. It in no way, shape, or form reflects the quality of Windows. While there's no denying that Apple has improved its market share, the ratio is still 15:1 (if being generous to Apple). A quick look at any of the graphics centric magazines for sale show how prominant Windows is in this field, as does 90%+ of the uni's that teach these things.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 05, 2010, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: Transition;589457
DiscreetFX's primary focus for quite a while has been developing visual effects products for video editing solutions on Windows. We would sometimes also make these effects available at a later date for Mac OS X. Potential Mac customers would call us concerned because certain products would ship much later for Mac OS X if ever. As 2010 winds down and ends we have noticed a softening in our Windows effects business. We did some research and found that while companies that sell integrated hardware/software solutions on Windows are doing fine software only vendors have noticed a great slow down.

 
 
Our research results have come back and this downward spiral will only continue and accelerate in the future. Microsoft continues to bleed many key executives at an alarming pace. What do they know that we don't? Since we wish to grow and expand DiscreetFX we plan to avoid this destitution and software sales decay. For some time we have already run the business side of DFX on Mac OS X and this has worked out well. Starting today we will change the focus of our software effects development from Windows to Mac OS X. Now the OS X versions of our software will come out first and later the Windows versions will ship if ever depending on the product. The first product this will affect is MusicFX.

 
 
DiscreetFX's Amiga business and Amiga.org will remain unchanged since this has always been the fun side of the business. This decision should strengthen DiscreetFX and help it grow. We are only reporting it here for transparency reasons and for full disclosure to our customers since some of them are members of this site. Of course old products are still fully supported.

 
 
If you have questions don't hesitate to ask. Our first mission is to help our great customer base. Exciting times are ahead like the Mac App Store. A lot of our regular customers have changed platforms from Windows to Mac and we will now join them. Expect to see other software developers follow suit. We are usually slightly ahead of the curb. If you remember we were one of the first to embrace selling software on Flash drives in 2006 and we completely moved to selling all our FX software on Flash drives in 2008. Apple just started selling Mac OS X and iLife 11 on Flash drives last week with the new MacBook Air.

 
Best regards

 
DiscreetFX Team


Why not write your apps using Qt4 enabling you to simultaneously release your products for all major (and some not so major) platforms?
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 05, 2010, 12:14:42 PM
Quote from: lou_dias;589474
Why not port to AROSx86 and sell "closed" hardware and software solutions then?
This way you control the quality of the hardware such as RAID(s) and video cards ensuring that your product performs expectedly well on the hardware.


Excellent idea, but surely an OS with better stability would be better for such devices? Haiku/Linux/BSD etc....
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Khephren on November 05, 2010, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;589497
@amigadave
Well, basicly I got the wrong idea on what was the concept you were wishing to elaborate on your previous post.

I see we agree on many things. And yes, you are right in that nearly an 80 percent of the money (and even more sometimes) Amiga users spend, is aimed at hardware. But then it is a chicken-egg situation: very little good Amiga software is available to buy -> few users buy that stuff, and they dont spend that much because there is not that much worth of it.


It's a good point. I used my A500 for games, my A1200 for games/apps, my A4000T mainly for apps. I probably won't invest hundreds in new art apps like I once did, because my classics are just to slow. I would buy new games and utilities though, or applications at a lower price.
I guess i'm now a dabbler software wise. Though you are right, I probably would buy more hardware.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: jj on November 05, 2010, 12:33:40 PM
Was just wondering how one stays ahead of the "Curb" ?
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: bloodline on November 05, 2010, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: JJ;589557
Was just wondering how one stays ahead of the "Curb" ?
Drink less ;)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Karlos on November 05, 2010, 03:06:32 PM

@Transition

Good luck!
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Nlandas on November 05, 2010, 03:28:03 PM
Quote from: Transition;589457
As 2010 winds down and ends we have noticed a softening in our Windows effects business. We did some research and found that while companies that sell integrated hardware/software solutions on Windows are doing fine software only vendors have noticed a great slow down.

 
 
Our research results have come back and this downward spiral will only continue and accelerate in the future.
..............................................................................................
Starting today we will change the focus of our software effects development from Windows to Mac OS X. Now the OS X versions of our software will come out first and later the Windows versions will ship if ever depending on the product. The first product this will affect is MusicFX.

 
Best regards

 
DiscreetFX Team


    Fair enough, you've certainly supported the Amiga platform far and beyond. You have to follow the money but my only caution would be to not get into a position where you can't easily transition back. I suspect you are seeing a wave that Apple typically rides once in a while of popularity. Since it's users are more dedicated to making purchases regardless of other economic forces.

In other words, when the economy comes back, I bet you'll find so do you Windows sales.

-Nyle
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: jsixis on November 05, 2010, 05:00:43 PM
Good Luck, doesn't take a brain scientist to see why your developing for Windows's millions of users vs Amigas thousands of users.

1% of a million is way better then 10% of a thousand
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: amigadave on November 05, 2010, 05:58:48 PM
Quote from: jsixis;589637
Good Luck, doesn't take a brain scientist to see why your developing for Windows's millions of users vs Amigas thousands of users.

1% of a million is way better then 10% of a thousand

I wish we still had thousands who were actually actively using their Amigas, Classic, Next Gen, or Emulation.  I haven't seen any evidence that we have over 1,999 users left who still use their Amiga computers as anything more than a nostalgic hobby, or an interesting diversion from their mainstream computer experiences (which are almost always required for work, or because they can't do everything they need, or want to do on a computer from their Amiga, or Amiga-Like computers), which they turn on more than once a week, or once a month.

I hope, or wish someone can/could prove me wrong and show me that we still have 2,000+, or several thousand Amiga users (all varieties) who still use their Amiga computers for more than the occasional game once or twice a week, or month.  I wish someone could prove to me that we still have over 100 to 200 developers, writing code for the Amiga (all varieties), because we desperately need many new and/or updated applications and it would be nice to get some new games too.

@DiscreetFX, sorry for the off topic rant and good luck switching your focus from Windows to MacOSX as your primary target for new applications.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 05, 2010, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: amigadave;589659
I wish we still had thousands who were actually actively using their Amigas, Classic, Next Gen, or Emulation.  I haven't seen any evidence that we have over 1,999 users left who still use their Amiga computers as anything more than a nostalgic hobby, or an interesting diversion from their mainstream computer experiences (which are almost always required for work, or because they can't do everything they need, or want to do on a computer from their Amiga, or Amiga-Like computers), which they turn on more than once a week, or once a month.


While I agree with your sentiments, I have to disagree on the Amiga being nothing more than a hobby or diversion.

I use my Amigas for all my computing need's, Audio, Gfx, DTP etc.. on a daily basis, the only thing I use my iMac for is the net... :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 05, 2010, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: Franko;589664
the only thing I use my iMac for is the net... :)


Heretic! (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35564) ;)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: fishy_fiz on November 05, 2010, 07:24:50 PM
Quote from: amigadave;589659
I wish we still had thousands who were actually actively using their Amigas, Classic, Next Gen, or Emulation.  I haven't seen any evidence that we have over 1,999 users left who still use their Amiga computers as anything more than a nostalgic hobby, or an interesting diversion from their mainstream computer experiences (which are almost always required for work, or because they can't do everything they need, or want to do on a computer from their Amiga, or Amiga-Like computers), which they turn on more than once a week, or once a month.

I hope, or wish someone can/could prove me wrong and show me that we still have 2,000+, or several thousand Amiga users (all varieties) who still use their Amiga computers for more than the occasional game once or twice a week, or month.  I wish someone could prove to me that we still have over 100 to 200 developers, writing code for the Amiga (all varieties), because we desperately need many new and/or updated applications and it would be nice to get some new games too.



I have 3 desks against my bedroom wall. One Windows machine, one AROS machine and one Amithlon/OS3.9 machine and they all get used roughly equally. Little bit backwards compared to most, but I do most of my coding on AROS or os3.9 (yes, it is probably silly being that they have much weaker tools, but I dont do nearly as much Windows development and I like to develop on the machine Im developing for), most of my graphics on Windows (Amiga has some adequate software for this, but for my tastes nothing to compare to 3DS Max or more recent versions of PSP (sure Photoshop is considered industry standard, but I hate it)). I browse on AROS and Windows equally depending on which machine Im in front of at the time (rarely os3.9 though, 'cos,...err,.. not sure this needs explaining to anyone who's tried browsing on an amiga). Video gets played equally as much on AROS and Windows as well, depending on which machine Im not in front of at the time. As for games, they get played on Amithlon/OS3.9 more than any of the others while Im in my bedroom due to some of the later amiga games being made usually being more interesting to me (unless Im in the mood for a modern game, which happens occasionally, in which case I'll get up off my butt and move to the lounge for some xb360 or pc gaming (have my pc gaming rig in a multimedia case and connected to my main t.v.)..... I could go on and on, but the overall point I guess is that my "amiga" hobby is a lot more than occasionally firing up Lotus Espirit or Supercars, etc.  :-)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: amigadave on November 05, 2010, 08:06:54 PM
Quote from: Franko;589664
While I agree with your sentiments, I have to disagree on the Amiga being nothing more than a hobby or diversion.

I use my Amigas for all my computing need's, Audio, Gfx, DTP etc.. on a daily basis, the only thing I use my iMac for is the net... :)

I did not say that the Amiga is nothing more than a hobby or diversion!  Read my post again, slowly this time, and you will see that I wrote that I don't believe that there are "thousands" of Amiga users in the World that use their Amiga's as more than a hobby, or occasional diversion.  Big difference!

My point is that the Amiga (in any form) is NOT just a hobby or occasional diversion to only a few hundred users Worldwide.  To the rest of the people that even know or remember what the name Amiga means, the Amiga "IS" nothing more than a hobby, or an occasional entertaining diversion.

Is that more clear?

If anyone can prove me wrong, I would be happy to see the proof.  I am one of the users that like to think of the Amiga (and all of it's derivatives) as something more than a hobby, diversion, or toy, but it is a choice that takes additional effort to realize, where using a Windows, Mac, or even a Linux computer these days is easier and comes with more software & hardware choices.  

I am happy to make that choice and call myself an Amiga user and supporter, but I would like to be an even better user and supporter by using my Amiga (and MorphOS) computers more and MacOSX and Windows less.  Having more AmigaOS & MorphOS software would help, but I must admit, laziness is a key factor which keeps me from using my AmigaOS & MorphOS computers more, as after using only an Amiga at home for many years and then getting caught up with using Windows at work and finally buying a Windows laptop as my first PC, I gradually moved away from using my Amiga and became a collector, more than a user.  

I have gotten back to using my Amigas and also started using MorphOS, but still have not gotten back to the level of Amiga/MorphOS use to equal my previous familiarity with the Amiga I had in the past, but I am working on it.  I would guess that the same pattern of Amiga use is shared by many Amiga users.  Probably more in the USA than in other parts of the World.  Specially in the UK, EU and Australia, where the Amiga had a larger percentage of the total computer user base over a longer period of time, with some users staying active continuously, without any break in use, like my switch to a Windows laptop at home.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: persia on November 05, 2010, 08:26:12 PM
According to Steve Jobs, the Mac now makes up 20% of total computer sales.  I personally know of about a dozen people that have switched from PC to Mac,but none that have gone the other way....
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 05, 2010, 09:50:00 PM
Quote from: nicholas;589673
Heretic! (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35564) ;)


Believe me I'd love to get this old iMac doing something useful, but you'd need to use a calendar to time the bootup sequence and you could take the dog for along walk waiting for iTunes to start... :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 05, 2010, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: Franko;589723
Believe me I'd love to get this old iMac doing something useful, but you'd need to use a calendar to time the bootup sequence and you could take the dog for along walk waiting for iTunes to start... :)


Is it PPC or Intel?
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 05, 2010, 10:09:47 PM
Quote from: nicholas;589727
Is it PPC or Intel?


It's an old iMacG4 800Mhz PPC, bought it for £65 then had to pay some geezer nearly 400 quid to fully upgrade it to OS X 10.4.11

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af79/frankosamiga/Funny/apple_imac_fp.jpg)

Make's a nice desk lamp though... :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 05, 2010, 10:36:44 PM
Quote from: Franko;589732
It's an old iMacG4 800Mhz PPC, bought it for £65 then had to pay some geezer nearly 400 quid to fully upgrade it to OS X 10.4.11

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af79/frankosamiga/Funny/apple_imac_fp.jpg)

Make's a nice desk lamp though... :)

HOW MUCH?!?!?!?! :O

Burn this (http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/maverick/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/mini.iso) to a disc.

Stick it in your Mac, hold down the letter 'c' while it boots and follow the prompts to install it.

Once it reboots, login and type
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get install lubuntu-desktop
Wait for ages, then reboot when finished.

Et voila, a useful desk lamp! :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Louis Dias on November 05, 2010, 10:43:46 PM
Quote from: nicholas;589550
Excellent idea, but surely an OS with better stability would be better for such devices? Haiku/Linux/BSD etc....


In a closed box solution, stability is not a problem.  You turn on the box, in 10 seconds their package loads, no Workbench/Zune will ever be seen.  USB can be used to transfer to Win/Mac boxes when needed.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Nlandas on November 06, 2010, 12:26:25 AM
Quote from: persia;589700
According to Steve Jobs, the Mac now makes up 20% of total computer sales.  I personally know of about a dozen people that have switched from PC to Mac,but none that have gone the other way....


I'm sorry to hijack the thread with a long post which will immediately be perceived by Mac aficionados as trolling but I have to say......

Apple claims there are 5 million Macs worldwide. Microsoft just sold 240 Million licenses of Windows 7 alone. Now that doesn't include anyone still running Windows 98/2000/XP or any of the alternative platforms Linux(Ubuntu, SuSe, Redhat, etc.) which has more users that Mac as well.

So if you do the math of just 5 Million Macs and 240 million Windows 7 licenses - about what percentage does that come out to again - worldwide?

I used to love my Amiga more than any other platform. I certainly saw it through rose colored glasses but I never let my enjoyment - skew my real sense of reality like many fans of Apple seem to.

Apple is riding a wave of popularity due primarily to being in the right place at the right time to capitalize on the pent up demand for a quality digital music(mp3) player. They have capitalized very well off the mind-share created by their iPods and used to to launch a myriad of other iDevices(iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad). However, this hasn't translated into as many Macintosh sales as they would like. Hence the latest push to convince consumers Mac Air(Netbook) that they've started to merge their iPod/iPad line with their Mac line. Culminating in Lion and the new Apple store, etc.

This totally ignores that other vendors aren't sitting on the sidelines and conceding the market to the Apple monopoly. Just one good example of something that ultimately may lead to the collapse of this wave of popularity is Google's success with Android in the Smartphone market. Android has recently been dominating the Smartphone market which Apple never really was the leader of. (That would be RIM.) Now when I listen to students and local kids talk about phones it's not all iPhone this and that. A lot of them are talking about Droid and some are even picking on their peers for buying the iPhone 4 because of the antennae/reception issue. (But I digress because all Smartphones have bugs, including my Android phone.)

I guess my only point in this long diatribe is - I find it hard to believe that even the staunched promoter of Apple products could believe the claim that Apple Macintosh makes up 20% of computer sales. The market doesn't bear it out.

I'm glad you like Apple and have had good luck with their products. We have supported Mac labs for years, they've had all kinds of bugs that we've had to find work arounds for and end up taking up more support time than the Windows machines, even counting malware repairs on Windows. On top of that we have no local support firms, no local warranty repair and a total lack of knowledgebase to call upon when problems occur. To top it all off Apple is so unwilling to acknowledge any flaw in their products, we often must locate our own fixes to problems until, if we are lucky, they fix them in the next paid service pack(OS) release. For all Windows is picked on most of their OS versions go through several free point releases where as point releases of Mac OS are paid. Thankfully, they are only $30USD per machine for schools.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Gebrochen on November 06, 2010, 12:51:10 AM
@ Transition

Wanted to ask if any of your products will also hit the Amiga market again, once the X1000 has come out into the public domain?

Cheers
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: adolescent on November 06, 2010, 01:13:20 AM
Quote from: persia;589700
According to Steve Jobs, the Mac now makes up 20% of total computer sales.  I personally know of about a dozen people that have switched from PC to Mac,but none that have gone the other way....


He also said that the iPod Touch sold more than the Nintendo DS and PSP combined. Just because your lord and savior says it doesn't make it true.  :roflmao:
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: runequester on November 06, 2010, 01:47:49 AM
The mac vs windows thing never does get old now does it?
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: SysAdmin on November 06, 2010, 05:08:36 AM
Even Steve Ballmer himself lacks faith in MS and is selling 75 millions shares.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20022007-75.html?tag=cnetRiver
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Pyromania on November 06, 2010, 07:04:03 AM
Some of you expressed privately that you thought we might be joking about this since it's major DFX news but not on the DiscreetFX site. While it is true that we sometimes do mischief that's not the case this time. The Press Release will go out on Monday and is already live @.

http://www.discreetfx.com/press.html
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: vidarh on November 06, 2010, 08:10:34 AM
Quote from: Transition;589807
Even Steve Ballmer himself lacks faith in MS and is selling 75 millions shares.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20022007-75.html?tag=cnetRiver


... or he just wants to actually have some cash to spend. Execs selling shares is normal. Gates has been selling Microsoft shares on a schedule "forever" for example. Otherwise, what'd be the point of getting the shares in the first place?

Being rich on paper is well and good, but it doesn't buy you anything.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Pyromania on November 06, 2010, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: vidarh;589820
... or he just wants to actually have some cash to spend. Execs selling shares is normal. Gates has been selling Microsoft shares on a schedule "forever" for example. Otherwise, what'd be the point of getting the shares in the first place?

Being rich on paper is well and good, but it doesn't buy you anything.



Your point is understood but is selling 2 billion dollars worth of shares sound normal? That's a lot of money.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Orkin on November 06, 2010, 09:50:53 AM
Quote from: Gebrochen;589766
@ Transition
 
Wanted to ask if any of your products will also hit the Amiga market again, once the X1000 has come out into the public domain?
 
Cheers

X1000 is public domain? Awesome!
 
(I joke, but it's fun to think of the rumors this could start!)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: vidarh on November 06, 2010, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;589823
Your point is understood but is selling 2 billion dollars worth of shares sound normal? That's a lot of money.


Compared to his total shareholdings it's a large amount, but certainly not unheard of. He's selling off less than 20% of his shares as far as I can tell.

Note that I'm not saying it's not possible that he's "lost faith" - could very well be.  Just saying you can't read too much into sales like this, as anyone sane will diversify if they have billions locked up in shares of a single company.

Now, if there's a wider trend of sales amongst Microsoft management (I don't know either way - I don't pay much attention to MS), then it's worth taking notice.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2010, 11:21:22 AM
@ Nicholas

Cheers mate... :) I think... :confused:

Erm... bit of a dummy when it comes to macs, is that a cd or dvd I burn it to... :confused:

Will I lose all my data, progs, passwords, cookies etc... if I do this ?

I don't have any backup OSX discs if it goes wrong... :(

I assume Lubuntu is a different OS system...

Or is this all just a plot to blow up me mac and stop me posting nonsense on Amiga.org... :roflmao:

PS:The bill broke down as

1GB Memory Upgrade  £60
160GB Hard Disk £48
DVDRW Drive  £25
Upgrade OSX 10.2 to OSX10.4.11
Call Out Charge £55
Labour £192

Total Cost £380

(Spot the Mug or What ... :) )
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: tone007 on November 06, 2010, 11:42:36 AM
You can try Ubuntu this way as well: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.04/release/

The desktop CD image (livecd) they offer will allow you to boot into Ubuntu (which is Linux, of course,) without changing the data on your hard drive.  If you don't like it, you can pop the CD out and reboot into OSX.

I've got Ubuntu running on various PCs and PPC Macs, I have to say I prefer it to OS X by a long shot, especially considering the version of OS X supported on the PPC Macs is a couple of years old already.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2010, 11:47:11 AM
Cheers Tone, :)

I'll give that way a try first, as I say I have no way of reinstalling OSX back on this mac and don't want to lose any of the data on it.

Anything has to be better than OSX10.4 which I find terribly slow... :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 06, 2010, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Franko;589847
@ Nicholas

Cheers mate... :) I think... :confused:

Erm... bit of a dummy when it comes to macs, is that a cd or dvd I burn it to... :confused:


Either mate, it's only small so it will fit on a blank CD.

Quote

Will I lose all my data, progs, passwords, cookies etc... if I do this ?

I don't have any backup OSX discs if it goes wrong... :(


Yep, unless you backup your data first.

Quote

I assume Lubuntu is a different OS system...

Or is this all just a plot to blow up me mac and stop me posting nonsense on Amiga.org... :roflmao:


It's a version on Linux that runs well on low-end hardware like your iMac.

Quote

PS:The bill broke down as

1GB Memory Upgrade  £60
160GB Hard Disk £48
DVDRW Drive  £25
Upgrade OSX 10.2 to OSX10.4.11
Call Out Charge £55
Labour £192

Total Cost £380

(Spot the Mug or What ... :) )


You could have bought a brand new Intel Mac Mini for a couple of quid more!
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: tone007 on November 06, 2010, 11:50:40 AM
The LiveCD will seem pretty slow as well, since obviously CD access times are much higher than hard disk access times, but at least you'll get to see what it looks like.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 06, 2010, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Franko;589855
Cheers Tone, :)

I'll give that way a try first, as I say I have no way of reinstalling OSX back on this mac and don't want to lose any of the data on it.

Anything has to be better than OSX10.4 which I find terribly slow... :)

To do that you'll need to burn this (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.10/release/ubuntu-10.10-desktop-powerpc.iso) but it'll run like a dog on such a low spec machine, even slower than OSX 10.4.

Lubuntu is much more lightweight than it's daddy. :)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: tone007 on November 06, 2010, 11:56:45 AM
I'm curious now, I've only run OSX on my iMac (which is identical to Franko's.) I think I'll try the LiveCD to see how it runs. (if it runs!)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2010, 12:00:04 PM
@ Tone & Nicholas

I've got a spare 500Gb external Sata HD & one of the little SATA to USB adapters, I'll backup all my data first then give it a try (might take a while though it's only USB1.1)

I picked up the iMac at an action for £65 and thought, that looks like a bargain, and as I was too busy decorating at the time I thought I'll get someone in to set it up for me, it won't cost much... Boy was I wrong... :o

It was only after that I discovered that for a couple of hundred quid more I could have bought a new one, more money than sense me... :)

(Never thought I'd see the day when I was seriously talking about Macs...)
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Karlos on November 06, 2010, 12:00:14 PM
For me, getting second hand apple hardware to run a different OS is revenge for the time I actually had to use an early, crap slow and buggy OSX on a G3 iMac. Man I hated it!

If I ever get a Mac, it will be a PPC mac to run morphos / linux...
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: tone007 on November 06, 2010, 12:34:51 PM
I can't seem to get the Ubuntu LiveCD booting on my iMac.  Seems they're problem machines.  Oh well.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: persia on November 06, 2010, 02:15:33 PM
Frankly I don't see what people see in Linux.  At work I run a Virtual Linux box as a web server and it does great at that.  But as a web server it doesn't need a gui and it runs happily by itself, which is how Linux seems the happiest.  

Every once in a while I try a Virtual Linux box just to see how it works, I've tried KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, Openbox, E17 and none of the Windows managers impressed me as something I'd want as my main OS.  The whole this seems designed by geeks for geeks and frankly a waste of time for me.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Karlos on November 06, 2010, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: persia;589885
Every once in a while I try a Virtual Linux box just to see how it works, I've tried KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, Openbox, E17 and none of the Windows managers impressed me as something I'd want as my main OS.  The whole this seems designed by geeks for geeks and frankly a waste of time for me.


That's because your window manager is not your OS.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: nicholas on November 06, 2010, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: persia;589885
Frankly I don't see what people see in Linux.  At work I run a Virtual Linux box as a web server and it does great at that.  But as a web server it doesn't need a gui and it runs happily by itself, which is how Linux seems the happiest.  

Every once in a while I try a Virtual Linux box just to see how it works, I've tried KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, Openbox, E17 and none of the Windows managers impressed me as something I'd want as my main OS.  The whole this seems designed by geeks for geeks and frankly a waste of time for me.


Stick with what you like then.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: runequester on November 06, 2010, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: persia;589885
Frankly I don't see what people see in Linux.  At work I run a Virtual Linux box as a web server and it does great at that.  But as a web server it doesn't need a gui and it runs happily by itself, which is how Linux seems the happiest.  

Every once in a while I try a Virtual Linux box just to see how it works, I've tried KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, Openbox, E17 and none of the Windows managers impressed me as something I'd want as my main OS.  The whole this seems designed by geeks for geeks and frankly a waste of time for me.


To be frank, I don't see what people see in windows or os X. But then, we can all choose what we want, and that's pretty much why life is awesome, isn't it ?
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2010, 04:43:20 PM
To be Franko, I think I'll just have to stick with crapple OSX 10.4... :(

Backed up all my data, burnt the ISO, popped it in, booted up....

Nothing except for a black screen, waited for about an hour & nothing happend... (tried a couple of times) :(

Ah well, thanks anyway guys it was worth a try, I'll need to scour the net and see if I can find any info on how to get it up and running on such an old mac... :)

Cheers :drink:

Franko
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: psxphill on November 06, 2010, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: persia;589700
According to Steve Jobs, the Mac now makes up 20% of total computer sales. I personally know of about a dozen people that have switched from PC to Mac,but none that have gone the other way....

Just because people choose a Mac over a PC, doesn't make it a good choice. The main requirement is more money than sense. Most people know more about cars than computers & they just buy a car they can afford and like the look of.
 
If you've ever been in pc world when one of their sales people are upselling, you'd realise just how clueless everyone is.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: kolla on November 06, 2010, 05:07:12 PM
Quote from: persia;589885
The whole this seems designed by geeks for geeks and frankly a waste of time for me.


Gnome and KDE are designed by geeks, but not for geeks. Their target is "most users", which is why they both suck so bad, IMO. I would love to see a GUI centric DE made for geeks :P
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: tone007 on November 06, 2010, 06:41:15 PM
Quote from: Franko;589901
Backed up all my data, burnt the ISO, popped it in, booted up....

Nothing except for a black screen, waited for about an hour & nothing happend... (tried a couple of times) :(

 
Same issue with mine, there are ways to get it working but not via the LiveCD it seems. You'd need the alternate install CD and would need to hack around with X configurations, too much trouble for me.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2010, 06:52:09 PM
Yup, same here, however I'll keep mucking around with it and see if anything can be done without too much hassle or losing all data. It would be nice to get these old iMacs running at a decent speed but it's not looking too promising though... :(
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: SamuraiCrow on November 06, 2010, 06:55:08 PM
Quote from: tone007;589918
Same issue with mine, there are ways to get it working but not via the LiveCD it seems. You'd need the alternate install CD and would need to hack around with X configurations, too much trouble for me.


Maybe it will be better when Ubuntu Linux drops X in favor of Wayland.  Here's a link to OSNews (http://osne.ws/iim).
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Pyromania on November 07, 2010, 03:23:15 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/27/technology/microsoft_pdc/index.htm

CNN Story about Microsoft as a dying brand.
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: adolescent on November 07, 2010, 04:13:45 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;590043
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/27/technology/microsoft_pdc/index.htm

CNN Story about Microsoft as a dying brand.


I'm sure DiscreetFX switching to Mac will be the final nail in the coffin. :lol:
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: SysAdmin on November 07, 2010, 04:16:14 AM
Quote from: adolescent;590047
I'm sure DiscreetFX switching to Mac will be the final nail in the coffin. :lol:

You said it because you know its so true.


:roflmao:
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: Franko on November 07, 2010, 04:09:28 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;590043
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/27/technology/microsoft_pdc/index.htm

CNN Story about Microsoft as a dying brand.


I know I shouldn't laugh, I mean all those folk that could be out of a job, but what the hell it's Microsoft after all... :biglaugh: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao::banana:
Title: Re: DiscreetFX Platform Shift
Post by: hardlink on November 08, 2010, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: bloodline;589505
Sounds like what I am seeing in my personal life... 6 years ago I didn't know anyone with a Mac... Now I can think of 14 people off the top of my head who all own a Mac (who didn't before)... And all but 3 of them bought MacBooks...


I'm not surprised at the DiscreetFX Platform Shift, either, based on people I know who do video projects for money 'on the side'. In the 1990's they were the Toaster then Flyer users and boosters, with those specialized Amiga hardware boards. In the 2000's they went to big WindBlows systems, with specialized hardware boards. Now, the only specialized hardware is the compression chips in their cameras, and they use stock hi-spec MacBooks with specialized software to do all their video work. At least, that's how I got my A4000T T/F setup :)