Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Colin_Camper on November 04, 2010, 11:01:14 AM
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Has CommodoreUSA shipped anything to anyone?
They have product in their store available to order.
I suspect noone has bought anything at all or received anything at all.
Which means......... I suspect
That this is just Scamiga Inc up to it's old tricks, trying to sell itself for an inflated amount.
Remember the last time Amiga Inc 'woke up'?
It updated it's website. It entered into a partnership with ACK.
It fooled a whole town with a multimillion $ sponsorship scam,
All the while it was trying to sell itself.
Now, the great CommodoreUSA comes along with it's $30million marketing budget, a deal with Amiga Inc. Then Amiga Inc invests $70 on a hosting package and ressurects the old website to pretend that it is a real company.
Then, suprise, suprise we hear that Amiga Inc is up for sale.
So, out of curiosity - has ANYONE received ANYTHING from CommodoreUSA or are they just another of BillyBoys elaborate scams?
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Now, the great CommodoreUSA comes along with it's $30million marketing budget, a deal with Amiga Inc. Then Amiga Inc invests $70 on a hosting package and ressurects the old website to pretend that it is a real company.
Where would commodoreUSA find $30 million to market something? I was under the impression they went bankrupt. :confused:
Out of curiosity how much does everyone think amigainc is worth? $1 million? $10 million? $50000?
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i dont pay any notice to this so called commodore usa anymore, sounded nice when it first did break the news. but it just dawned on me fast that this was just another kent arena. http://www.commodoreusa.net is a patchwork of photos of computer cases copied from other sites, 3d renderings taken from other amiga users, copy and paste texts from apple.com and other sites. these guys have $30million budget and the web page looks like its done by a 12 year old and a shoe string budget. when bill mcewan did announced the multimillion dollar kent arena sponsoring, the timing was about when they were trying to sell amiga, so the kent arena case is in my opinion a try to raise the valuation. after november the first announcement, amiga are selling everything via http://www.pluritas.com. i would draw the same conclusion, its the same old story. make a big announcement, then try to sell.
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Where would commodoreUSA find $30 million to market something?
That is easy. They can just use the same $30 million that Bill McEwen saved by canceling the Kent Arena deal. :roflmao:
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Out of curiosity how much does everyone think amigainc is worth? $1 million? $10 million? $50000?
Well turd in a can ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit ) sold for EUR124,000.
So anythings possible.
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I think it would be funny if we all stopped speculating so much....
I say we start a bounty, then hire a private investigator to tail silly billy,
find all his dirt, credit, background, talk to his neighbors,take pictures of
his car and his house and post all that information here.
I'm not saying do anything crazy or illegal, I would certainly not suggest that,but it would be awesome to find out he's got bad credit, went bankrupt, is driving a 500$ POS 1980's car and is living with his parents.
I'd say the likelyhood of one or more of those things being true is very
high myself.
Commodore USA investing 30 million dollars is about as believable as Silly Billy actually making a real product to sell. I agree with the previous poster, their website is stolen from apple, and they don't make anything but commodore stickers to slap on the already existing products they are selling at a 30% markup from the real producers.
Simply renaming a cybernet zpc and slapping a commodore or amiga sticker on it does not qualify as "making a product"
Steven
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So are the selling access to whatever IP is related to the Amiga? Is WB roms and OS included in this sale?
IF it is then this could be valued for a TV game type product as the purchaser would then own the roms. Question is how much they want. If its a few tens of thousands of dollars then it is in line with what one would pay for access to a major movie license (sometimes this goes into the millions or even hundreds of millions).
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We one could create a theory that Commodore USA is basically an appliance to increase the value of Amiga Inc before it's sold...
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It's worth $70 including the hosting pre-paid up front. Last time Commodore was up for sale it was about the same value as an EU 4 bedroom detached residence wasn't it? That was after C64 DTV and Commodore Gaming (may have been just before, not sure).
I wonder what the valuation would be via one of those websites that value domain names....that would be interesting.
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Why do we care what/when they're shipping? They're just shifting other people's Windows/Linux PC's. They blew their chance at the only Amiga-like OS that'll run on their machine (AROS), so at best it'll bog standard machine with a copy of UAE.
There are so many interesting things going on in the Amiga market - concentrate on them, not on a PC which someone has cynically slapped a "Commodore Amiga" badge on.
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Why do we care what/when they're shipping? They blew their chance at the only Amiga-like OS that'll run on their machine (AROS)
Well, they may have p1ssed off some AROS people but nothing could stop them using AROS in whatever capacity they choose. Also AROS would benefit from people like some of their offerings and would like to have a Commodore Amiga for nostalgia sake.
However, you missed the central point to my question - is it all just another elaborate Scamiga Scam. Are CommodoreUSA just being used by Scamiga or are they a part of this conspiracy to defraud potential purchasers of whatever assets Amiga Inc have left. (I can't think of many!).
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One could say that, based on some of their prior behaviour, Amiga Inc could be hiding behind C=USA and trying to increase the value of the brand...
But then, riddle me this...
Why would CommodoreUSA then enter into a trademark license agreement with ASIARIM(which includes an undisclosed amount of money being paid), an alltogether completely separate entity, to make a (only)commodore branded product? It doesn't compute...
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Only time will tell, but Id be more inclined to believe that something went wrong (or jut changed) with the C-USA deal, and on the back of that A. Inc. decided to sell the patents elsewhere. Really though Im beyond caring. A.Inc has done nothing since it bought Amiga besides outsourcing OS4.x, and C-USA have already proved thier lack of business sense, have lied, got into arguements over paying a small sum for drivers that they wanted, insulted people that actually are trying to push AROS forward (the clusteruk + phoenixsconsole attack by thier "CEO" was baffling) in addition to the more focused on incompetencies (things that I was willing to let slide personally, but others seem to have taken to heart). All this without actually even having released a product.
We, the community are the ones who have shaped the current state of "amiga", and despite somewhat slow progress, we're getting there. A.Inc. and now C-USA have been nothing but a thorn in our side.
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Has CommodoreUSA shipped anything to anyone?
They have product in their store available to order.
I suspect noone has bought anything at all or received anything at all.
Which means......... I suspect
That this is just Scamiga Inc up to it's old tricks, trying to sell itself for an inflated amount.
Remember the last time Amiga Inc 'woke up'?
It updated it's website. It entered into a partnership with ACK.
It fooled a whole town with a multimillion $ sponsorship scam,
All the while it was trying to sell itself.
Now, the great CommodoreUSA comes along with it's $30million marketing budget, a deal with Amiga Inc. Then Amiga Inc invests $70 on a hosting package and ressurects the old website to pretend that it is a real company.
Then, suprise, suprise we hear that Amiga Inc is up for sale.
So, out of curiosity - has ANYONE received ANYTHING from CommodoreUSA or are they just another of BillyBoys elaborate scams?
They have some nice aumro/karmadigital HTPC cases on their site though, and it will be interesting to see what they fills them with!
:)
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Are CommodoreUSA just being used by Scamiga or are they a part of this conspiracy to defraud potential purchasers of whatever assets Amiga Inc have left. (I can't think of many!).
Besides increasing the perceived value of the assets, there is one additional thing that the "Scamiga" people might have in mind: as their trademarks are being cancelled one after the other, they desperately need to show that they are using them. But, as this thread accurately says in the title, Commodore USA is pure vaporware so far, and that doesn't count much, does it?
To recap:
- Amiga Delaware has no patents (because they expired, and never even left Gateway)
- Amiga Delaware has no copyrights (because what the German notary public used to transfer the copyrights was a trademark/patent contract, not a copyright contract)
- If challenged, Amiga Delaware has no trademarks (because it failed to use them and to defend them)
- Amiga Washington and Amiga Delaware have lots of creditors, overdue taxes and court judgements, I would say for at least half a million dollars (from public sources), maybe more
- Amiga Delaware has (unless challenged by some of the Amiga Washington creditors/partners/employees, because it changed from the Washington company to the Delaware company defrauding the creditors of the Washington company) an interesting Spanish (and Portuguese) domain name: amiga.com
But is the amiga.com domain name worth more than the debts?
Am I missing something?
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The prestige of owning the Amiga name cannot be valued in simple dollars and cents!
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So are the selling access to whatever IP is related to the Amiga? Is WB roms and OS included in this sale?
IF it is then this could be valued for a TV game type product as the purchaser would then own the roms. Question is how much they want. If its a few tens of thousands of dollars then it is in line with what one would pay for access to a major movie license (sometimes this goes into the millions or even hundreds of millions).
The news release indicated that Amiga Inc. wants to keep the OS, but sell the trade name, as ludicrous as that may sound.
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It would be interesting to find out what the deal is between Barry's Furniture Co. and Amiga Inc, surely they would have to disclose the details of the deal to someone who wanted to buy the company....
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It would be interesting to find out what the deal is between Barry's Furniture Co. and Amiga Inc, surely they would have to disclose the details of the deal to someone who wanted to buy the company....
I don't think there is a deal, since they probably have realized that they are in violation of the settlement with Hyperion. Rather, I suspect that McEwen is going to sell the trade name to Barry outright for some price to circumvent the legal problem, UNLESS he can get more by selling it to someone else -- hence the notice of the attempted sale at this point in time.
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So......
Their 'shop' has been up for several months.
and no-one knows anyone who bought anything from CommodoreUSA.
I think that answers my question.
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@orb85750
They aren't producing an OS so they aren't in violation of their agreement with Hyperion. A lot of us spotted the hole when the settlement was posted. Amiga Inc can produce computers but only with someone else's OS, they can't produce their own....
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Bullsh*t has been shipping for several weeks.
:)
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@orb85750
They aren't producing an OS so they aren't in violation of their agreement with Hyperion. A lot of us spotted the hole when the settlement was posted. Amiga Inc can produce computers but only with someone else's OS, they can't produce their own....
Did I not read that Hyperion has filed suit?
EDIT: To get AROS to work fully with the C-USA hardware, are they not going to need to do some work? Is that work not under the umbrella of "OS production/development?" (I don't know.)
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Bullsh*t has been shipping for several weeks.
:)
:lol:
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Well, the site claims the Phoenix is available now, and this video suggests that it's not a hoax:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzsmiuEYUQY (Warning: music is loud; don't play at work.)
I suspect this guy "AussieAmigan" is BigBentheAussie on AmigaWorld.net who is the CTO for Commodore USA.
Only time will tell what it all means.
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Its just the cybernet zpc, which you can get 35-40% cheaper than from these idiots direct from cybernet
http://www.cybernetman.com/en/products/zerofootprintpc/zpc-gx31.cfm
You won't get a commodore sticker slapped on it.
Otherwise the video shows a grub boot menu that they put a commodore jpg in...with ubuntu, windows and aros installed, something anyone can do on any pc. A chief technical officer thats a fancy title now for someone who slaps a sticker on an existing computer and installs software?
(YAWN)
Steven
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This Commodore USA... I'm betting they are only interested in the Small form factor of the all in one keyboard design.
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The prestige of owning the Amiga name cannot be valued in simple dollars and cents!
Off Topic: Hey tone007, that is a nice new avatar and member title you have there!
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Well, they could start with t-shirts and an included coupon good for $X off their first shipping produce.
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Well they have already shipped something:
They shipped an apology letter to Thom Holwerda of OSnews.com :)
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I don't really understand their business philosophy. Even if one were to suspend doubt long enough to assume they were telling the truth, could the name Commodore really net them enough sales to justify the overhead of such a diverse hardware range? It seems to me that their "milk the name" strategy would be better realized if they focused on just a couple of computers.
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Well, the site claims the Phoenix is available now, and this video suggests that it's not a hoax:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzsmiuEYUQY (Warning: music is loud; don't play at work.)
I suspect this guy "AussieAmigan" is BigBentheAussie on AmigaWorld.net who is the CTO for Commodore USA.
Only time will tell what it all means.
Interesting video.. now lets see if BigBenAussie can post another video showing it running the official Amiga operating system and not some amiga-like operating system they cannot legally distribute.
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
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I don`t see any legal issues, shipping ubuntu with the Phoenix or even Windows 7, if it has been contracted!!
Bottom issue is that these are just pc`s with a taint of Commodore nostalgia. So what good could they be? Run a C64 emulator and think that they are a real C64. I mean they certainly aren`t fast enough to be used as a regular pc.
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Off Topic: Hey tone007, that is a nice new avatar and member title you have there!
The subject of my new avatar has severely cut into my Amiga-time and budget.
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I don`t see any legal issues, shipping ubuntu with the Phoenix or even Windows 7, if it has been contracted!!
Bottom issue is that these are just pc`s with a taint of Commodore nostalgia. So what good could they be? Run a C64 emulator and think that they are a real C64. I mean they certainly aren`t fast enough to be used as a regular pc.
I wasn't refering to Ubuntu or Windows 7... I was referring to AROS. :rtfm:
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wasn't refering to Ubuntu or Windows 7... I was referring to AROS.
That could be interesting if they could strike a deal with the AROS team and get it to work properly on their machines.
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>What deal would they need to strike with AROS. If I am not mistaken, no deal would be the answer. Aros is a free OS isn't it ?
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AROS is a free OS, but the development on it is limited by the amount of people. Unless the AROS people happen to write the drivers for their hardware, they won't be able to package it with AROS.
They had a really good chance for something special until they blew it so spectacularly with the AROS camp.
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No interest in paying a premium for an "amiga" sticker, but the machine itself looks kind of keen. Does anyone have experience with the Cybernet one?
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I haven't used that model, but I have an older P4 Cybernet all in one machine, I'd say the hardware quality is quite good.
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Curiouser and curiouser:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/Amiga.html
I must say, I'm especially amused by the phrase: "the Dream is over." If they don't support AROS in some way (or provide their own x86 version of AmigaOS) it definitely is. (Yes, I know, Hyperion contract, blah, blah, blah...) :)
On the flip side, this is incentive for AROS fans to fund drivers to make the machine work. If they ever deliver, of course.
I also have to admire their ambition (while I simultaneously question their ability). Where will this all end up? I can only speculate.
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It's like someone took a chewed up A1200 and an A3000 and painted them black! A fat keyboard, big enough to be an all in one, but requiring a desktop box.
How lame.
..or are those two separate products...
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OK, now this has moved from Curious to Comical:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/Corporate.html
Scroll to the bottom, and note the "employee" named "Moochie."
A name that bares a striking resemblance to a certain "Mitchy."
It would appear they're either nuts, or they truly want to capture Amiga fans. Given their recent "attitude" towards AROS, I can't help but wonder if it's the first.
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@ Tone007
My best guess is that we're looking at several products: A NeoAmiga 1000, 2000 and 3000 and a NeoAmiga 1200.
But that's only my guess.
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Curiouser and curiouser:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/Amiga.html
I must say, I'm especially amused by the phrase: "the Dream is over." If they don't support AROS in some way (or provide their own x86 version of AmigaOS) it definitely is. (Yes, I know, Hyperion contract, blah, blah, blah...) :)
http://www.3dvf.com/modules/galeriev2/artiste.php?idartist=4161&p=&t=&c=
Just another Lightwave render. Wonder if they got permission to use it this time.
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You're correct about the "NeoAmiga 1200," Mongo, but the "NeoAmiga 1000" and others appear to be real:
http://www.aumro.com/products.html
I gotta admit, they dream big. (When has anyone in Miggy-Land not?) I'm just curious if they'll ever actually produce.
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http://www.3dvf.com/modules/galeriev2/artiste.php?idartist=4161&p=&t=&c=
Just another Lightwave render. Wonder if they got permission to use it this time.
Oh dear...
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http://www.commodoreusa.net/Amiga.html
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As a MorphOS user with real concern over the use of relatively stagnant trademark I'm more concerned about this - if they do produce anything how will that affect those of you that are still rabidly concerned about what is and what isn't an Amiga?
Think about it. An Amiga shipping w/o an OS or with Linux or Windows.
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1. Register a familar sounding retro computer name.
2. Scan Google Images for nice 3D rendered computer images.
3. Blend all together in a $20 Walmart bender and post with Front Page 98.
4. Profit! $$$$
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As a MorphOS user with real concern over the use of relatively stagnant trademark I'm more concerned about this - if they do produce anything how will that affect those of you that are still rabidly concerned about what is and what isn't an Amiga?
Think about it. An Amiga shipping w/o an OS or with Linux or Windows.
think about this, how would you liked if Genesi bought a licence for the Amiga name, and started using the Amiga brand instead of MorphOS. how would that affected you?
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I reckon Moochie's the brains behind the whole operation... :)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af79/frankosamiga/Funny/Photo_16-1.jpg)
Hmm... wonder if they'll sue me for that... :)
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Go Moochie!
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Say what you want, but if they sell the PC64 for a reasonable price, I will buy one.
I don't care about the copyright infringment, as I have never met anyone that has never committed copyright infringement, and consider what he did to be benign.
I don't care that it isn't a "real" commodore product, as "real" commodore products have not been produced in decades, and I want a product that doesn't require the fiddling of the "real" ones.
I don't care that they got mad at people for raking them over the coals. I buy lots of things from people I might not want hang out with socially.
I have considered gutting an old c64 and installing a PC in it myself. It is only a question of whether they actually get them out the door or not. I don't see anything too difficult about it from a technical perspective, so I suspect they will. If they don't, no sweat off my back.
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Say what you want, but if they sell the PC64 for a reasonable price, I will buy one.
Wow... CommodoreUSA's first potential customer, well worth the $30 miillion they allegedly spent on advertising... :roflmao:
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Maybe Moochie can give each machine a approving lick before it ships out to customers. Moochies seal of quality.
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I hope CUSA makes a pile of cash selling Amiga branded computers running Windows. It's fitting and will bring much needed closure so folks can simply move on.
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I love it!
(http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//AKeyboard_rotating10.jpg)
(http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//AKeyboard_rear.jpg)
(http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//AMIGA-fantasyB_3_2_3.jpg)
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"I mean they certainly aren`t fast enough to be used as a regular pc. "
???How do you figure that? I used a quad core dailiy and a Core 2 duo laptop daily as regular PCs? What are you using? Tell that to apple who sell core 2 duos in the macbook and mac mini lines.
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It's like someone took a chewed up A1200 and an A3000 and painted them black! A fat keyboard, big enough to be an all in one, but requiring a desktop box.
How lame.
..or are those two separate products...
Just concept drawings, probably of separate products.
I really don't understand all the negative hysteria that has been floating around several Amiga related forum websites since C=USA's announcement that they had bought the Amiga name to use with their proposed products?
Not that your message is hysterical tone007, but I would have to disagree with your opinion, as I think Yoz Montana's designs are quite nice looking.
If I were a big fan of AROS, I would welcome the chance to get a case, or complete computer with Amiga branding that looks as nice as these renders to run AROS on.
I do understand why some people might be upset if all C=USA is doing is buying existing "All-In-One" keyboard computer designs for "X" dollars, putting a few stickers on them, installing a free OS and trying to resell them for "X" dollars + 40% to 50% markup profit. But these new designs, if ever produced, might be an interesting choice for some people.
If anyone is ONLY upset with C=USA because they bought the Amiga name from Amiga Inc., grow up! That was the only legal place such a name purchase could be obtained from, unless you expect everyone to wait another X years for the Amiga trademarks to be sold, or abandoned by Bill McEwen & company to someone else, and then think it would be OKAY to purchase the Amiga name from someone else.
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You're correct about the "NeoAmiga 1200," Mongo, but the "NeoAmiga 1000" and others appear to be real:
http://www.aumro.com/products.html
I gotta admit, they dream big. (When has anyone in Miggy-Land not?) I'm just curious if they'll ever actually produce.
I have to say, those cases are actually quite cool.
Not sure about his reimagined 1200 with the sliding keyboard (as much as there is a small bit of me that admires the retro form factor, my utilitarian side has long since tamed it), but the "big box" (aumro TF5 case) amiga... I think has a certain style that I do find appealing.
I have to say, if Barry were to stop trying to sell to the retro crowd and concentrate on selling very stylish PCs like one housed in the aumro TF5, he could probably do quite well for himself.
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I don't care about the copyright infringment, as I have never met anyone that has never committed copyright infringement, and consider what he did to be benign.
Many people disagree with you on that last part, simply because of the commercial aspect of it all.
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@Retrofan
What's in the keyboard and what's in the box?
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. But these new designs, if ever produced, might be an interesting choice for some people.
You answered the question there yourself really. This seller of imported Chinese furniture is grabbing text from Apple and pictures of completely unrelated products (like the A500+CD render or the C64+CD drive custom built one off DIY project) WITHOUT PERMISSION to promote his rubbish joke of a rebranded computer. You would have to be a bit of a nobhead to do anything other than wait for this man, who's first two initials are the same as those for Bull Shit I might add, to actually produce anything other than stickers to put on fugly all-in-ones for a huge mark up ;)
If he had even just designed a custom case to place mini ITX boards inside them that would be fine, but he hasn't and never will. Grow up and get real, Bill the conman of Amiga Inc did a deal with some loser to try and ramp up his company's value and this is it. Another project he touched that will turn to shit not gold haha
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(http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//AKeyboard_rotating10.jpg)
(http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//AKeyboard_rear.jpg)
Looks *really* cool!
:)
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The design suggestions dosent look to shabby but will it ever materialize? i doubt it. The webpage however looks like something they made at home for fun, no consistency, way to big pictures splattered all over +++ all in all very "i did this as my first webpage at home", i could have made something better in a day. If they really have the cash they bragg they do, they should hire some professionals.
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A word from Moochie...
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af79/frankosamiga/Funny/AKeyboard_rotating10.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af79/frankosamiga/Funny/Photo_16-2.jpg)
(get a grip... if that's an Amiga then I'm 100% sane) :crazy:
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A word from Moochie...
Hey look if they can get it done then more power to them. Nice design.
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Looks *really* cool!
:)
...and the colour scheme fits perfectly to a MorphOS machine... ;-)
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Correct me if I'm wrong but CommodoreUSA never actually designed that case?
I think a company with "30 million" for advertising alone should be able to exhibit some designs of their own. Even one days interest on 30 million should be sufficient to make a half professional looking website.
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think about this, how would you liked if Genesi bought a licence for the Amiga name, and started using the Amiga brand instead of MorphOS. how would that affected you?
I've been trying to point out to diehard MorphOS users for some time that Genesi isn't really important to us anymore. They don't current sell any MOS capabile equipment. Their last Efika motherboard uses an ARM processor (which they're now focusing on instead of PPCs) and their focusing on Linux as their OS of choice.
Genesi gave up on the Amiga market awhile ago. It seems unlikely they would condsider anything like you've mentioned. But if they did, they'd probably favor Linux (which Barry Altman has mentioned) for the new system.
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I've got nothing against CommodoreUSA buying in stock boards & putting them in cases designed by others and even using the Commodore name.
What I do find objectionable is the use of the C64 & AMIGA brand names, and the fact that if they do produce and sell such machines that some poor mugs who might have been out of the scene for a while may purchase one thinking they are getting a nice new modern genuine C64 or AMIGA that's 100% backwards compatible...
If anyone want's to run a C64 or AMIGA under emulation (which is all these machines will be doing) then buy an emulator for your PC or MAC and save yourself a small fortune. :)
I wish them luck in their ventures, just wish they wouldn't tarnish the legacy of two of the best home computers the world has ever seen. :)
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I've been trying to point out to diehard MorphOS users for some time that Genesi isn't really important to us anymore. They don't current sell any MOS capabile equipment. Their last Efika motherboard uses an ARM processor (which they're now focusing on instead of PPCs) and their focusing on Linux as their OS of choice.
Genesi gave up on the Amiga market awhile ago. It seems unlikely they would condsider anything like you've mentioned. But if they did, they'd probably favor Linux (which Barry Altman has mentioned) for the new system.
when genesi made their os they was planing to release it as amigaos, but since they didnt get the name at the time they named it morphos. genesi as a company know very well that a well known brand will sell a product more than a unknown brand. so again if you as a long time morphos user, got the news by genesi that they now have a licence for the amiga brand and was gonna change from morphos name to the amigaos name. how would that affected you as user?
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I have to say, those cases are actually quite cool.
Not sure about his reimagined 1200 with the sliding keyboard (as much as there is a small bit of me that admires the retro form factor, my utilitarian side has long since tamed it), but the "big box" (aumro TF5 case) amiga... I think has a certain style that I do find appealing.
I have to say, if Barry were to stop trying to sell to the retro crowd and concentrate on selling very stylish PCs like one housed in the aumro TF5, he could probably do quite well for himself.
Yea, I kinda like those cases too. If I'd known about them when I was building my AROS system, I might have chosen that slimmer model to house the motherboard. Of course, I don't think it's wide enough to fit a keyboard underneath, but I still like it's looks. ;)
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Hi guys 'n gals!
though I just signed up here *blush* I'm a real Amiga fanboy ;)
Now back to the topic. I really don't get all the negativity towards Commodore USA.
These new renderings are not stolen and these guys are actually in negotiation with
the designer.
That said I don't quite get their current business model either.
Who is the target market for a PC64? Probably some nostalgic fanboys - maybe you
sell like 900 units, that's if you're lucky. I am however really interested in the
development of the new Amiga line, and I'd like to bring across my pov about what
I think a new Amiga needs… though I'm afraid it flies in the face of many Amiga
enthusiasts.
I do hope Commodore USA builds a kickass high performance workstation and does not
go the ‘low cost / low performance’ way. We already have a Mac Mini.
For me the logical thing to do is drop all lame as hell PPC stuff and go with todays
MUCH faster and much more cost effective x86 architecture. Currently Intel i7
processors are a good choice.
For the GFX card forget about these laughable Radeon R700 they want to use in the
X1000, I'd suggest nothing slower than an ATI Radeon HD 5870.
Firewire, USB and a Blu-Ray drive with a slim A1200 style keyboard would be heaven.
Let’s hope they stick to Yoz design. We can just put the stuff that gets hot in the
A3000-esque box.
So now to the thing you will hate me for ;) The software support in MorphOS, AmigaOS
and even AROS is from the pov of a professional musican, hobbyist video artist,
3d modeller and programmer a joke.
Logic Audio, Final Cut Pro, Maya, the whole Adobe Suite & After Effects (running on
OS X!) are essential. For Nuendo, Samplitude, AutoCAD, gaming and XBOX360 programming
a Windows 7 System does fine - no let me rephrase - is much recommended. :P
There is no way those other Amiga OSystems could ever catch up with the amount of
driver support currently available for Windows and OS X Systems.
So in my opinion the best and most efficient thing to do is choose all parts like
network, firewire, Bluetooth, USB and soundchip to be commodity (Mac compatible!)
PC hardware.
For a workstation a SSD or even SSD raid would be appropriate. All other parts like
power supply and GFX card should be customized to the lowest noise level achievable.
Since we are Commodore freaks the first batch of Amiga workstations comes with a
free HardSID PCIe card included. ;)
The user runs Linux, Mac OS X, Windows 7 or if she’s a masochist AROS x86 (that's if
the devs ever catch up with the port… ).
Since we’re helpful peeps who know what people really need, all Amigas will get a
DVD with custom OS X SATA drivers to support Read/Write on NTFS drives right from
the start. As well as some kind of Linux Mint distro for starters with no OS
whatsoever. Amigas should be fun for everyone, no?
We also do our own custom Amiga boot menu OS X / Windows / some Linux distro / AROS.
Hey we could even do a competition who comes up with the most slick boot screen. :)
If people want to work as professionals in the media industry they need to use the
professional software at hand. Even if there was a brandnew realtime OS with never
heard of resource and task management it would be useless from the perspective of
someone who works in such an environment and has to exchange work with others.
Speaking of price ranges, an Amiga workstation system like the one described above,
would fall in-between a MAC Pro and one of these so called “Gamer PCs” that look
like a Walmart Halloween decoration.
There would be plenty of opportunities for the Amiga community to support the Amiga.
Like improving the Linux Mint distro for those who prefer to go without OS X/Win,
or working on AROS drivers.
But isn’t this just a normal PC with the Amiga label attached to it?
Well, given Yoz Montana’s design and the feature list above, it’s something that
does not exist yet but is closest to what I envision a modern Amiga to be.
Just my 2 cent. ;)
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Given the thread title and general mistrust/animosity towards C=USA, I'm surprised nobody has posted this, yet:
(http://www.shipmentoffail.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/shipment_of_fail.jpg)
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@Jan
What exactly is it that doesn't exist?
So far I already have whatever CUSA is "offering", the only slightly interesting bit is the properly layed out amiga keyboard.
Btw - halfway down your post you start using "we" as if you're part of CUSA - what's that about?
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I too can't quite figure out why C=USA are copping such a flogging...
True, they haven't shipped anything yet, but their plans, ideas and designs are quite nice.
I'd be quite willing to buy one (or more) of their boxes, assuming pricing and specs are reasonable.
Let's wait and see... They're not hurting or ripping anyone off... Relax...
Mike.
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@Jan
What exactly is it that doesn't exist?
So far I already have whatever CUSA is "offering", the only slightly interesting bit is the properly layed out amiga keyboard.
Btw - halfway down your post you start using "we" as if you're part of CUSA - what's that about?
hi kolla,
no, I'm in no way related to C=USA. Just read my post as a wishlist.
English is not my 1st language either, so forgive my laziness :)
As for what does not exist. Apart from the design, a computer optimized to all the features described
in my first post does not exist. It would take weeks of research.
Also, while I might be able to assemble and configure something at least close to it, many people I'm
working with won't ever. I'd expect from C=USA and the community to build up a level of support for
such a system that would simply not exist in a DIY solution.
greetz ;)
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when genesi made their os they was planing to release it as amigaos, but since they didnt get the name at the time they named it morphos. genesi as a company know very well that a well known brand will sell a product more than a unknown brand. so again if you as a long time morphos user, got the news by genesi that they now have a licence for the amiga brand and was gonna change from morphos name to the amigaos name. how would that affected you as user?
As I mentioned before, I couldn't care less what Genesi does. They no longer build hardware that uses MorphOS and they don't own the rights to the OS (the developers do).
I'm not typing this on a Genesi/bPlan designed computer, I'm using OWB (under MorphOS) on a Powermac.
I wish Genesi luck in their new focus on ARM based hardware and I'm rather imbivialent about CUSA. It would be nice if only one company was marketing Amiiga computers, but in the long run I can't see a knowledgable computer user confusing a CUSA Amiga with an AmigaOne.
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Btw - halfway down your post you start using "we" as if you're part of CUSA - what's that about?
I smell socks.
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hi kolla,
no, I'm in no way related to C=USA.
ok
As for what does not exist. Apart from the design, a computer optimized to all the features described in my first post does not exist. It would take weeks of research.
What, to put together a box with Intel i7 and radeon card? I don't get it.
Also, while I might be able to assemble and configure something at least close to it, many people I'm working with won't ever. I'd expect from C=USA and the community to build up a level of support for such a system that would simply not exist in a DIY solution.
greetz ;)
I'm still pussled, you describe what sounds like an ordinary barebone PC system and then you write that it doesn't already exist?
Btw - the design there is two seperate machines, one keyboard type box and one regular box. It's like A500 and A2000, A600 and A3000, A1200 and A4000. I thought that was quite obvious. Also it seems very aimed at Natami, with Super AGA, LUA etc.
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@ Jan
I've heard some crazy stuff in my time said about the Amiga but you sure take the biscuit... :)
Logic Audio, Final Cut Pro, Maya, the whole Adobe Suite & After Effects (running on
OS X!) are essential. For Nuendo, Samplitude, AutoCAD, gaming and XBOX360 programming
a Windows 7 System does fine - no let me rephrase - is much recommended. :P
If people want to work as professionals in the media industry they need to use the
professional software at hand. Even if there was a brandnew realtime OS with never
heard of resource and task management it would be useless from the perspective of
someone who works in such an environment and has to exchange work with others.
If you really want or need/need to use the programs you mention then use them on a PC or Mac or whatever machine they are written to run on. The Amiga has it's own software for doing such things and I don't honestly think that any Amiga user would actually even try to compare the old software they use against modern PC/Mac software. The Amiga may no longer be used by professionals anymore for such tasks but that's what a PC or Mac is for.
A PC can run emulation of an Amiga, but why on earth would someone want to emulate a modern day PC or MAC on an Amiga or run Windows or Mac software on it. The Amiga is what it is, a machine used by most of us left who still actively use it either in hardware form or emulation form for the fun, enjoyment and nostalgia of something that was and still is that wee bit different.
If someone does create and build an Amiga that does run Windows or Mac software then I for one would not be buying or using it, what's the point, if you want to use Windows software buy a PC if you want to run Mac software buy a Mac. If you simply want to run all your old Amiga software for what it does then invest in some old hardware or run an emulator.
The only thing lacking these day's with the Amiga is trying to keep things like memory cards and HDs CD/DVDs up and running but that's why their are still some folk constantly working on ingenious solutions to these problems not to mention all those who work on things like Aros or MorphOS.
The best thing to happen to the Amiga would be something like the Natami which is supposedly going to be 100% backwards compatible but running at speeds never before seen on an Amiga and hopefully the ability to be able to use things like SATA HDs & DVD drives.
I dream of such a machine, but I certainly don't want to run Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on it, I'd be perfectly happy running the likes of ImageFX at an almost realtime speed and all my other old Amiga software and either writing my own software to take advantage of it or using software that other folk would no doubt write to do the same.
The day the Amiga becomes nothing more than a machine for running Windows or Mac software will truly be the day the Amiga dies... :)
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Besides increasing the perceived value of the assets, there is one additional thing that the "Scamiga" people might have in mind: as their trademarks are being cancelled one after the other, they desperately need to show that they are using them. But, as this thread accurately says in the title, Commodore USA is pure vaporware so far, and that doesn't count much, does it?
To recap:
- Amiga Delaware has no patents (because they expired, and never even left Gateway)
- Amiga Delaware has no copyrights (because what the German notary public used to transfer the copyrights was a trademark/patent contract, not a copyright contract)
- If challenged, Amiga Delaware has no trademarks (because it failed to use them and to defend them)
- Amiga Washington and Amiga Delaware have lots of creditors, overdue taxes and court judgements, I would say for at least half a million dollars (from public sources), maybe more
- Amiga Delaware has (unless challenged by some of the Amiga Washington creditors/partners/employees, because it changed from the Washington company to the Delaware company defrauding the creditors of the Washington company) an interesting Spanish (and Portuguese) domain name: amiga.com
But is the amiga.com domain name worth more than the debts?
Am I missing something?
What an interesting first post.
You seem very well informed, Sir!
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(http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/epic-fail-sports-fail-epic-forehead-weak-retard-demotivational-poster-1206344902.jpg)
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Has CommodoreUSA shipped anything to anyone?
They have product in their store available to order.
I suspect noone has bought anything at all or received anything at all.
Which means......... I suspect
That this is just Scamiga Inc up to it's old tricks, trying to sell itself for an inflated amount.
Remember the last time Amiga Inc 'woke up'?
It updated it's website. It entered into a partnership with ACK.
It fooled a whole town with a multimillion $ sponsorship scam,
All the while it was trying to sell itself.
Now, the great CommodoreUSA comes along with it's $30million marketing budget, a deal with Amiga Inc. Then Amiga Inc invests $70 on a hosting package and ressurects the old website to pretend that it is a real company.
Then, suprise, suprise we hear that Amiga Inc is up for sale.
So, out of curiosity - has ANYONE received ANYTHING from CommodoreUSA or are they just another of BillyBoys elaborate scams?
Hi,
I certinlly hopes nots
Look at the stuff they are selling and then look at the price and the OS, those boys have a couple of screws loose. For the amount they are selling their stuff for, you could buy a good PC gamming rig with a 6 core AMD.
But
I do like the looks of their keyboard computers. Pretty nice style. Worth $1500, not.
They better put better electronics inside for the price they are asking.
smerf {:+(
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Hi,
I certinlly hopes nots
Look at the stuff they are selling and then look at the price and the OS, those boys have a couple of screws loose. For the amount they are selling their stuff for, you could buy a good PC gamming rig with a 6 core AMD.
But
I do like the looks of their keyboard computers. Pretty nice style. Worth $1500, not.
They better put better electronics inside for the price they are asking.
smerf {:+(
1500 ? as in.. 1500 dollars ?
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Hi,
@runequester,
Yes, for their top of the line model, which is equal to a computer I wouldn't even waste money on today.
Heck they want $495 just for a board in one of them fancy keyboards. No CPU, no nothing, just a board in a box.
smerf
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Hi,
@Franko,
""The Amiga may no longer be used by professionals anymore for such tasks but that's what a PC or Mac is for.""
Oh come on now, do you really think MAC people are professional, they only know how to punch keys. The other day I took on some kid that knew how to use those MAC programs for Desktop Publishing, he does it for his livelihood. I blew him out of the door by using some of those so called old Amiga programs, like imagefx, dpaint, ppaint etc. so much for a MAC pro, he lost against 20 year un upgraded software.
""A PC can run emulation of an Amiga, but why on earth would someone want to emulate a modern day PC or MAC on an Amiga or run Windows or Mac software on it.""
I don't know, I would really hate to downgrade my Amiga and make it suffer by doing so.
""The only thing lacking these day's with the Amiga is trying to keep things like memory cards and HDs CD/DVDs up and running but that's why their are still some folk constantly working on ingenious solutions to these problems not to mention all those who work on things like Aros or MorphOS.""
Franko old friend, you really have to start looking at Amigakit, you fell behind by a couple of years. By the way I don't consider Aros or MorphOS as real Amiga systems as of yet, but I have to admit I visit their sites once a month just to see if they accomplished anything of great value.
"The best thing to happen to the Amiga would be something like the Natami"
The thing wrong with Natami, is that by the time they solve something they are 5 years behind the curve, and the thing they just solved is obsolete. They have to learn how to solve the problems of the newer hardware, which is advancing faster then most PC people could keep up with.
""The day the Amiga becomes nothing more than a machine for running Windows or Mac software will truly be the day the Amiga dies...""
Never happen, who in the Amiga Circle would do this, we want to run everything on our machines. Look at my Quad core, it runs Amiga, Linux, Ubuntu (ok another Linux) NES, Windows 95, Window Visita and Windows 7. Could run MAC, but why waste a good machine.
I still use my Amiga for all my important stuff that I do not want to lose. My Amiga 4000 sits on my desk protecting my valuable data every day for the last 18 years. I can't recall ever having a PC for more than 7 years, and a no crash on any PC for more than 7 months (which means that about every 7 - 12 months I have to wipe out my PC and reload. Now the reload time for a PC is about 3 days, with all the updates, the reload time for an Amiga with OS 3.1 is about 20 minutes (got to stop for coffee don't you know) then another 45 -- 90 minutes for OS 3.5 and 3.9. How do I know this since I haven't reloaded my Amiga 4000 since 1992 (remember I said reloaded not updated) is because I just put in a compact flash (CF) drive in my PPC running A1200 tower, and once again thank you Amigakit for all the parts, I like advertising for a good quality company. (now about OS 4.0 hint hint). Now another thing I like about the Amiga is that if I don't like the first OS bench I made, it doesn't take me 3 days to reload.
As far as the Amiga kicking the bucket, you need to watch Erics new Amiga movie on you tube, because all I know is that my Amiga has outlasted approximately 17 PC's that I sent to the grave yard, but to be fair I have thrown out one Amiga by accident, when we moved from Florida to Pennsylvania, my wife asked what to do with the computers I had out in my garage, I said throw them out since they where all old Gateways and Packard Bells. Then when she got up to Pennsylvania, I asked if she packed up my Amiga 1000, she said where was it, and then I said it was in the (U guessed it), I then remembered, I had put it in the garage along with my C64 and C128 so the kids wouldn't touch them, (yes, Franko & Karlos) there are some computers I won't allow them to touch. Closest I have been to divorce in all my life and I keep telling myself it isn't her fault, but how could anyone not know what a A1000 looks like? or was she just jealous because I paid more attention to that A1000 then I did to her or was it just because when she sat naked in front of my monitor and asked what do you think, and I said I think your blocking my monitor.
Oh their I go babbling on.
smerf
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Oh come on now, do you really think MAC people are professional, they only know how to punch keys.
Huh, I for one quite like the score to Inception (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0kGAz6HYM8) and Gladiator. This guy (http://www.apple.com/ru/pro/music/zimmer/) knows how to punch keys for sure ;)
I figured the Amiga emulation for the iPhone was developed on a MAC, probably by a n00b (http://toucharcade.com/2010/02/09/commodore-amiga-emulator-coming-from-manomio/#comment-54111) ;)
By the way, developing iPhone/iPad apps is one fine way to earn money these day,
especially for programmers just starting out. As well as for people who like to
design little retro style games with a small team. Not unlike Amiga development back then.
There's still stuff like XNA development for Xbox360 that you definitely need a
fast PC for. For e.g. to run a windows emulation under a LinuX system equals way
too much hassle and speed loss. Also I still do my online gaming on Windows
machines.
The Amiga may no longer be used by professionals anymore for such tasks but that's what a PC or Mac is for.
I dream about changing this, I really do ;)
I'm still pussled, you describe what sounds like an ordinary barebone PC system and then you write that it doesn't already exist?
Well, you are most welcome to show me a silent high end PC System in a design that somehow resembles Yoz ones :knuddel:
and is compatible to my specs (including a custom boot loader and supporting community) and runs OS X
'out of the box'. (read without fiddeling kexts and in auto update mode).
What most folks at sites like OSx86 build is all too often a neverending re-configuration marathon.
Personally I need both Windows 7 as well as OS X. I would probably enjoy working every now and then
on some Linux distro that aims specifically at the Amiga community.
One big advantage for a 'chameleon system' as described would be the user base and the knowledge transfer
as many people would have the same initial configuration. Hmmmm, chameleon sounds like an excellent name btw :D
The one proposed OS X driver disk for not so computer savvy people, would make some people I work with order
an Amiga today. Sometimes it is those little things that make all the difference.
Yeah, the backbone of an Amiga would be a hand-selected collection of commodity hardware parts coupled with
excellent design. It would not be about custom chips like Xena or fancy exotic processors, nor about one specific OS.
Though Aros could become a viable alternative to the Linux distro one day.
Speaking of design, some people buy Kenwood others buy Bang & Olufsen. Some buy Alienware towers,
some buy Amigas :) There is a proven market for people who value good design.
Maybe it's time for C=USA to think about a different business model approach.
Ferrari wouldn't sell you a chassis without an engine either. ;)
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I figured the Amiga emulation for the iPhone was developed on a MAC
Was it? Shocking, considering that the iOS SDK is OSX only.
The question is, will Apple allow an Amiga emulator into their store?
Well, you are most welcome to show me a silent high end PC System in a design that somehow resembles Yoz ones
and is compatible to my specs (including a custom boot loader and supporting community) and runs OS X
'out of the box'. (read without fiddeling kexts and in auto update mode).
There are very good reasons for why you do not see high end i7 in such tiny cabinets. There are also reasons why you don't see OSX sold with regular PCs.
Personally I need both Windows 7 as well as OS X.
Then you either build a hackintosh yourself, or you buy a Mac. Apple do not allow OSX to be sold with other computers than Apple machines, doing so means that you have to face Apple in court. This has already happened.
I would probably enjoy working every now and then on some Linux distro that aims specifically at the Amiga community.
And who will provide that? The ignorants of CUSA?
The one proposed OS X driver disk for not so computer savvy people, would make some people I work with order an Amiga today. Sometimes it is those little things that make all the difference.
Why would it interest anyone here that one can order a PC with Amiga sticker on it? Do you not grasp why we are here? Do you not understand that it is Amiga systems that are our interest here? We already have OSX, Linux, Windows, *BSD and whatnot running for years, and we're active on the relevant forums for those systems.
So sure, go ahead an make a "designer PC" that can run any of the OSes you like and stick the Amiga name on it, I still won't care.
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Was it? Shocking, considering that the iOS SDK is OSX only.
and that's exactly why I chose this example. ;)
By the way, it runs great.
There are very good reasons for why you do not see high end i7 in such tiny cabinets. There are also reasons why you don't see OSX sold with regular PCs.
What might this A4000-esque box be good for, come on it doesn't take much imagination :)
Then you either build a hackintosh yourself, or you buy a Mac. Apple do not allow OSX to be sold with other computers than Apple machines, doing so means that you have to face Apple in court. This has already happened.
I already have and can therefore say it would be a great idea to assemble an Amiga
with having OS X driver support for each an every part in mind, rather than building one
based on PC hardware and later cry for drivers having no dev team.
It's legal where I live in Europe and for the states , well, you do not have to advertise
that your system runs OS X just perfect, word of mouth will do here :)
And who will provide that? The ignorants of CUSA?
[...]
Why would it interest anyone here that one can order a PC with Amiga sticker on it? Do you not grasp why we are here? Do you not understand that it is Amiga systems that are our interest here?
You know what I love most about Robert J. Mical? He's such a friendly charming persona.
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By the way, it runs great.
UAE running on whatever device is not really news, you know. We were running UAE on PDAs (Zaurus and iPaq) almost 10 years ago already.
What might this A4000-esque box be good for, come on it doesn't take much imagination :)
Host CPU and a cooling system.
I already have and can therefore say it would be a great idea to assemble an Amiga with having OS X driver support for each an every part in mind, rather than building one based on PC hardware and later cry for drivers having no dev team.
Which is fine, but how is it in any shape or form relevant to Amiga?
It's legal where I live in Europe and for the states , well, you do not have to advertise that your system runs OS X just perfect, word of mouth will do here
So you're thinking of selling a hackintosh without the OS. Great, but again - totally irrelevant to anything Amiga.
You know what I love most about Robert J. Mical? He's such a friendly charming persona.
And what does that have to do with anything?
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UAE running on whatever device is not really news, you know. We were running UAE on PDAs (Zaurus and iPaq) almost 10 years ago already.
given the number of sold iPhones and the achieved performance on the ARM it's apples and oranges,
anyway, I don't think this adds much to the discussion as my point was having an Amiga that I can
also use to develop iPhone apps. It's a waste of time assembling a hackintosh, when you could buy
a cheaper than Apple package that works right out of the box, looks great and is tagged with a
Commodore logo. ;)
Host CPU and a cooling system.
Yep and a high performance GFX card. For a keyboard only version (if they plan to offer different models)
one could think about mobile versions of the i7, like the ones used in the the Mac Book Pro (i7-620M)
Either way it would be enough to experience some heat on the keyboard, which I actually like :)
Which is fine, but how is it in any shape or form relevant to Amiga?
It all makes sense if you go back to my first post (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=590012&postcount=75). This is my vision of a future Amiga.
It's okay if you want to jump on the escapism train and bath in childhood memories,
or just want to fiddle around with outdated hardware and relax,
I just have a vision very different from yours and I am not even sure whether C=USA can pull it off.
Either way everyone should speak for themselves, which brings me to your next question
And what does that have to do with anything?
It has to do nothing with the Amiga and everything with you and your tone of speech,
but you probably already figured that out on your own, right? :kitty:
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This is my vision of a future Amiga.
It's okay if you want to jump on the escapism train and bath in childhood memories,
or just want to fiddle around with outdated hardware and relax,
I just have a vision very different from yours and I am not even sure whether C=USA can pull it off.
Well, everyone is entitled to a vision and there are certainly many and varied visions out there! :-)
As far as C=USA is concerned - people are very jaded. I mentioned ACK and Kent but there are literally dozens of these scenarios of 'ghost' companies and shell games involved with Scamiga Inc and others.
I am willing to give C=USA the benefit of doubt - they are an innocent party being used by Scamiga Inc to artificially inflate the worth of their IP and trading name.
This is what worries me. Scamiga are not stupid and they would not knowingly partner with a viable entity to play these games. Soooo...
either Scamiga have underestimated C=USA and we will see product or it will play out exactly the same as all the other 'games'.
I hope C=USA has some money and can ship stuff - especially the C64 and the Amiga fantasy and other rendered stuff.
I sincerely hope that if they have some money that they start their own distro of Linux or (even better with it's Amiga ethos) Haiku. The only people interested in AROS would only come from this community I guess.
It would still be nice to hear if C=USA has, indeed, shipped anything. :-)