Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: sundown on November 03, 2010, 10:23:44 PM
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There's a new PPC accelerator poll on AW, front page, right side. Those of you that are interested, could you please vote if you're interested.
I'm not involved in this h/w project, so please don't ask me any questions, I'm just the messenger. Err..., wait, they shoot messengers don't they? :-D
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Never having owned a PPC or OS4, the third option confuses me.
Doesn't OS4.1 run 68k applications?
Thanks
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I was going to vote yes but that would mean logging in and that site's just too OS4.x biased to me (if I logged in I might upset a few of the nerds over there...:)
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I was going to vote yes but that would mean logging in and that site's just too OS4.x biased to me (if I logged in I might upset a few of the nerds over there...:)
+1
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Forget that question, they meant for running 3.x itself, not for running 3.x APPS in 4.1.
I totally missed that distinction.
Unless it's dirt cheap (ha!) I'm not really interested in PPC though.
If I had a log-in there I would vote no.
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Never having owned a PPC or OS4, the third option confuses me.
Doesn't OS4.1 run 68k applications?
Thanks
That is probably because a1200 with phase5 accelerator can run "not so system friendly programs". With only PPC cpu a1200 can only run system friendly programs, because accelerators disables 68k cpu
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That is probably because a1200 with phase5 accelerator can run "not so system friendly programs". With only PPC cpu a1200 can only run system friendly programs, because accelerators disables 68k cpu
I use a Blizzard060/PPC on my Amiga everyday and it certainly doesn't disable the 68k (otherwise I'd never even be able to boot up). Where'd you get that idea from... :confused:
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If a new PPC accelerator were to be developed for the A1200/A4000, capable of running OS4.1, would you buy it, assuming reasonable price?
Reasonable price, yeah that is a bit vague, if the card would have a 060 and a 700 Mhz PPC or something for around 200-250 euro's, yeah.
But even existing PPC's will run 4.1, maybe not superfast, but it will run.
Why not make a poll here, I'm not going to create a login for that site, nor a1k.org
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The processor that gets disabled on an ordinary accelerated system, is only the one that comes as default with the Amiga, the one that you cannot manually unplug by disconecting a card.
Blizzard PPC accelerator boards come with two processors on board, a 68k (either a 040 or a 060) and a ppc, they continue to run both at the same time, only the host Amiga default one gets disabled.
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PPC is dead.
:hammer:
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The processor that gets disabled on an ordinary accelerated system, is only the one that comes as default with the Amiga, the one that you cannot manually unplug by disconecting a card.
Blizzard PPC accelerator boards come with two processors on board, a 68k (either a 040 or a 060) and a ppc, they continue to run both at the same time, only the host Amiga default one gets disabled.
I think the confusion is with OS4 Classic the 68k is disabled and OS4 runs from the PPC only.
As Gulliver says in normal OS3.x both CPU's are active and you can run 68k apps/games and WarpOS/PowerUP apps/games
Steve.
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@thread
2 quick things:
the background leading to the creation of the poll (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32618&forum=33&viewmode=flat&order=0)
The poll is a xoops poll (members only), as opposed to a normal thread poll where anyone can vote. It was designed that way as an information gathering instrument.
If one issue is the hesistancy to become a member solely for the purpose of registering a vote, I truly understand.
Maybe you could implement something similar here on amiga.org to help gather some responses.
#6
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@thread
2 quick things:
the background leading to the creation of the poll (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32618&forum=33&viewmode=flat&order=0)
The poll is a xoops poll (members only), as opposed to a normal thread poll where anyone can vote. It was designed that way as an information gathering instrument.
If one issue is the hesistancy to become a member solely for the purpose of registering a vote, I truly understand.
Maybe you could implement something similar here on amiga.org to help gather some responses.
#6
When it first came out I bought Classic OS4.0 to run on my Blizzard060/PPC and can only say what a total waste of money it was, there was no mention that you needed an RTG GFX card to make it usable and then Hyperion quickly dropped all support for it after only one update. :madashell:
This poll which is clearly linked to the release of Classic OS4.1 is kinda pointless in my opinion. I mean how many folk are going to be daft enough like me to pay nearly 500 quid on ebay to buy a BPPC, then try and buy a BVision (still haven't found one) to make Classic OS4.x any way at all useable. Thats assuming of course if you can find a BPPC or Bvision for sale in the first place.
I know Amigakit sell the Mediator boards, but in a thread I placed a few days ago asking if anyone uses the Mediator and what it could do, not a dicky bird... :(
Point is how many Amiga users are going to buy OS4.1 when it's going to cost them a small fortune to upgrade their Amigas just to run an OS that by past experience shows that you'll be left at the whim of Hyperion when they suddenly decide to drop support for it, not many I guess...
So what's the point in the poll, do you have some inside information about a new PPC board someone is planning for the Amiga, or is this just some more wishful thinking (and yes I did read the thread...) :)
(just noticed the thread were one lucky mug can bid on a BPPC , won't be me this time... but at least the Amiga community will have one more PPC user soon, even if he/she is a little poorer... :) )
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@Franko
I'm not managing the poll either. I just noticed that it had been pointed to from here, and thought I should clarify what I knew to be the reason for its existance.
At this point, I realize my 2nd point was made in haste, and should be disregarded.
The very reason for the xoops poll was to obtain unique serious responses.
Fostering a poll with the same entries on amiga.org would merely result in duplication, which the poll creator surely does not want.
Is there an accelerator?
Let's just say that the facts to date are that dealers would like that as a product option.
#6
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I'd rather it if someone brought out an Amiga-style keyboard wedge case that fits a Mini-ITX motherboard and stick in a Sam440 to run OS4, or an iMica to run Aros.
Since Aros is making its way to 68k Amigas we're going to have a major OS update soon, meaning there's even less reason to upgrade to PPC just to use a newer OS on our classics.
Even if we got a new PPC accelerator, the Sam still has USB, RTG and 16bit audio, fast ethernet and a whole bunch of other features that would be slower on a PPC-powered classic Amiga.
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Is there an accelerator?
Let's just say that the facts to date are that dealers would like that as a product option.
#6
Hmm... now that is interesting... go on spill the beans... :)
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I won't register for voting, but the PPC way is dead...
I understand that Hyperion/Ben Hermans does not agree, since the amount of work behind Amiga OS4 (beside problems, whatsover it has), but it will lead to death IMHO.
Happy for AROS on 68k (so an OS upgrade for "classic" Amigas could be done, sooner or later) and for AROS x86, so to have cheap updated hardware almost off-the-shelf.
Beside this, even WinUAE with AROS 68k will be an upgrade option (in case AROS x86 is not mature enough).
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Hmm... now that is interesting... go on spill the beans... :)
As luck would have it, AW seems to be down again atm.
I was going to point to some links, to show the statement made by Amigakit, at the very least.
If you read the thread from years ago (link given within the thread I pointed to earlier) you can see the phenomenal # of responses.
With each passing year, perhaps interest seems to decrease.
Or perhaps it is just because it has become so difficult to believe in anything?
I still believe the most horrid/misleading statement ever made was "classic is dead", especially when you consider -when- that statement was made.
Whether anyone makes an effort as regards the subject is totally unknown at this point. Relating the history would be pointless, because I can only deal with the human resources that remain at any given point.
Sorry, if that is vague, but that is as much as can be said without leaving you with any false impression or illusion of promise.
#6
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I won't register for voting, but the PPC way is dead...
I understand that Hyperion/Ben Hermans does not agree, since the amount of work behind Amiga OS4 (beside problems, whatsover it has), but it will lead to death IMHO.
Happy for AROS on 68k (so an OS upgrade for "classic" Amigas could be done, sooner or later) and for AROS x86, so to have cheap updated hardware almost off-the-shelf.
Beside this, even WinUAE with AROS 68k will be an upgrade option (in case AROS x86 is not mature enough).
You said PowerPC is dead and then you say you are happy with an Aros on a processor that is not even produced anymore (68k).Contradictory response yours
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A fast 68k card with either an FPGA or a different CPU with a 68k emulator in ROM would pique my interest, but not a PPC.
Unless the PPC can masquerade as a 68K fast enough to beat my 060/66 that is.
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I was going to vote yes but that would mean logging in and that site's just too OS4.x biased to me (if I logged in I might upset a few of the nerds over there...:)
some of those 'nerds' are among us:nervous:
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@thread
It's nice to read all the opinions and experiences in this thread, quite a variety :)
I will apply some statistical analysis to the results once the poll runs it's course at the end of the month. A stats professor at my University has written an excel spreadsheet for me that will do this.
He said to me if you estimate a total population size of 2000, 5000, or 10000 possible users, the poll has a plus or minus accuracy rate of 9.5%.
Extrapolating those numbers out based on the population estimate could give you an estimate of possible sales.
For example, currently the poll has 38% of respondents saying "Yes!".
38% of various estimated population sizes is:
For 2000 Users: 760
For 5000 Users: 1900
For 10000 Users: 3800
The variance is plus or minus 9.5% as I stated.
At least that is how I interpret what the Professor has said to me. But once the poll is finished I will ask him exactly how to interpret the results and I can even post the spreadsheet here. ;) I'm by no means a stats expert so I could be totally wrong.
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some of those 'nerds' are among us:nervous:
I'd noticed that... :sealed:
But then some over their are more nerdier than your average nerds. I mean there was a thread that ran for about 2 gizzillion pages, where the discussion was about how many pounds of thrust it would require to push an asteroid off a collision course with earth !!!
Still, at least it cured my insomnia... :roflmao:
(It's also a good advert for euthanasia... :roflmao: )
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You said PowerPC is dead and then you say you are happy with an Aros on a processor that is not even produced anymore (68k).Contradictory response yours
I admit, but what matters to me is that the number of PPC Amigas is far less than the "classic" 68k ones right now.
And we, all amigans, have already a 68k processor (in a physical form or "emulated in software"), so we'll benefit for an updated "classic OS" on our old machines (and emulators).
This means you haven't to spend much money (also nothing) for improvements.
On the other end, following the PPC way, you have to buy new hardware, already proven to be very expensive (for the average pockets, at least), for a processor family whose life expectancy is far for being clear nor long (I know IBM is going on with it, but for how long?).
So the option of a FPGA-based processor (could be done forever if we have access to complex programmable logic) or backwards compatibility through software emulation on common hardware, is the most comfortable, cheap, valuable, long life way to go (in my opinion, of course).
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@Franko (sorry I must have missed your mediator post)
I'm running a Blizzard 060/PPC and Mediator setup and I must say its awesome!
I've got a Soundblaster 128 and a Voodoo 5 5500 hooked up to it. With the update patch OS4 runs with this setup right out of the box in RTG.
I'm personally looking forward to OS4.1 as I'm sure there will be a lot more options for it software wise as OS4 is a little thin on the ground.
I also use Amigasys4AGA and Classic Workbench P96 along with my RTG setup and they both look and run great.
I also have a stock OS3.9 setup running off the Blizzard SCSI which is nice and fast plus WarpOS/Warp3D all setup and working with the Voodoo 5.
I'm glad I got my PPC, I know it cost me an arm and a leg but I feel part of a very exclusive club and surprisingly I'm not at all worried about using it, I switch the machine on and use it daily.
Steve.
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there were so many polls and discussions about the subject in the past. jens rejected that, because of the amount of development work and costs, i think this really says it all as this is currently the only person/company in the scene that actually delivers.
as for techical side ppc might still be an easier option these days since there is warpos (and os4 for that matter) that could take advantage of that. but i would prefer a completely new solution, maybe 68k emulation layer on an arm, jit lag makes me uneasy though. nothing is an responsive as true 68k.
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@Franko (sorry I must have missed your mediator post)
I'm running a Blizzard 060/PPC and Mediator setup and I must say its awesome!
I've got a Soundblaster 128 and a Voodoo 5 5500 hooked up to it. With the update patch OS4 runs with this setup right out of the box in RTG.
I'm personally looking forward to OS4.1 as I'm sure there will be a lot more options for it software wise as OS4 is a little thin on the ground.
I also use Amigasys4AGA and Classic Workbench P96 along with my RTG setup and they both look and run great.
I also have a stock OS3.9 setup running off the Blizzard SCSI which is nice and fast plus WarpOS/Warp3D all setup and working with the Voodoo 5.
I'm glad I got my PPC, I know it cost me an arm and a leg but I feel part of a very exclusive club and surprisingly I'm not at all worried about using it, I switch the machine on and use it daily.
Steve.
Cheers for that info Steve... :)
I've always been curious about the mediator board and that's the kind of answers I was hoping for. Amigakit say they have a new version arriving soon so I reckon I'll go with that. :)
Finally looks like I'll have a good use for my trusty old BPPC board at last and be able to give up trying to find a BVision for it... :)
Cheers :drink:
Franko
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Cheers for that info Steve... :)
I've always been curious about the mediator board and that's the kind of answers I was hoping for. Amigakit say they have a new version arriving soon so I reckon I'll go with that. :)
Finally looks like I'll have a good use for my trusty old BPPC board at last and be able to give up trying to find a BVision for it... :)
Cheers :drink:
Franko
Hey no problem Franko, also Elbox have updated their drivers with a new MMCD so better support for varioius Network Cards, TV Cards, in addition to the Sound and Graphics. They also do a USB card but I'm led to beleive you're better off with a Subway.
Anyway the mediator was the best move I made for my A1200 after I towered it, I tried a MicroNik Zorro Busboard and I had nothing but a nightmare. The Mediator (aside from Warp3D) was pretty straight forward to setup.
Steve.
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@thread
It's nice to read all the opinions and experiences in this thread, quite a variety :)
I will apply some statistical analysis to the results once the poll runs it's course at the end of the month. A stats professor at my University has written an excel spreadsheet for me that will do this.
He said to me if you estimate a total population size of 2000, 5000, or 10000 possible users, the poll has a plus or minus accuracy rate of 9.5%.
Extrapolating those numbers out based on the population estimate could give you an estimate of possible sales.
For example, currently the poll has 38% of respondents saying "Yes!".
38% of various estimated population sizes is:
For 2000 Users: 760
For 5000 Users: 1900
For 10000 Users: 3800
The variance is plus or minus 9.5% as I stated.
At least that is how I interpret what the Professor has said to me. But once the poll is finished I will ask him exactly how to interpret the results and I can even post the spreadsheet here. ;) I'm by no means a stats expert so I could be totally wrong.
I don't think that is correct. The so-called standard error is the square root of [p*(1-p)/n],
where p is the probability (0.38) and n is the sample size. Using the standard error gives only a 68% confidence of the result. For a 95% confidence, you use ~twice the standard error. I have no idea how many have participated in the poll, but let's say it is 100 (for example). Then the standard error is about 5%. So at the 68% confidence level, that would be 38% +/- 5% and at the 95% confidence level, that would be 38% +/- 10%. BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS you're assuming that the AW website is a good representation of Amiga users. If it is tilted toward OS4 fans, then extrapolating these results to all Amiga users is not a good idea.
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I don't think that is correct. The so-called standard error is the square root of [p*(1-p)/n],
where p is the probability (0.38) and n is the sample size. Using the standard error gives only a 68% confidence of the result. For a 95% confidence, you use ~twice the standard error. I have no idea how many have participated in the poll, but let's say it is 100 (for example). Then the standard error is about 5%. So at the 68% confidence level, that would be 38% +/- 5% and at the 95% confidence level, that would be 38% +/- 10%. BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS you're assuming that the AW website is a good representation of Amiga users. If it is tilted toward OS4 fans, then extrapolating these results to all Amiga users is not a good idea.
You wouldn't be one of those nice Amigaworld.net erm.. chappies I mentioned earlier... :roflmao:
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I was going to vote yes but that would mean logging in and that site's just too OS4.x biased to me (if I logged in I might upset a few of the nerds over there...:)
amigaworld.net may have started out OS4 centric and have a user base that reflects that, but these days is pretty much an all formats forum, just like this place.
You wouldn't be one of those nice Amigaworld.net erm.. chappies I mentioned earlier...
Hey, don't knock 'em. There are plenty of perfectly nice people over there. When I decided to get my neglected A1 up and running again, I found the folks there most helpful.
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@ Karlos
Not knocking them... just some could do with a sense of humor transplant... :)
Steve (the moderators) a good laugh though... :)
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There's a new PPC accelerator poll on AW, front page, right side. Those of you that are interested, could you please vote if you're interested.
I'm not involved in this h/w project, so please don't ask me any questions, I'm just the messenger. Err..., wait, they shoot messengers don't they? :-D
I tried to vote, but it seems that you can't vote in that poll unless you are a member of that site. So why post it here? I'm sure the members of *that site* (this is a different site) are aware of the poll anyway, since it's on the *front page*, yes?
I am not a member of that site.
I can't vote.
:(
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He was hoping you'd join, sheesh.
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amigaworld.net may have started out OS4 centric and have a user base that reflects that, but these days is pretty much an all formats forum, just like this place.
AmigaWorld.net is **NOTHING** like this place!
OK?
....
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I tried to vote, but it seems that you can't vote in that poll unless you are a member of that site. So why post it here? I'm sure the members of *that site* (this is a different site) are aware of the poll anyway, since it's on the *front page*, yes?
No. I'm a member but I don't check it that often and when I do, I tend to go straight to the latest posts section (just as I do here).
I am not a member of that site.
I can't vote.
:(
Well, if you wanted to vote on it, it wouldn't be difficult to open an account.
AmigaWorld.net is **NOTHING** like this place!
OK?
Well, it certainly seems to have a higher proportion of OS4 users, but I still see plenty of classic, AROS and MorphOS discussion going on over there too, so I stand by my observation that it's an all formats sort of place.
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AmigaWorld.net is **NOTHING** like this place!
OK?
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You've got that right, too many brain cells over there for my liking... :)
(and only one person speaks scottish, ye ken... :) )
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Guys, seriously. If you want to make disparaging remarks about somebody else's forum, at least have the stones to go there and do it. Don't sit and snipe from here.
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Sorry... Point taken... :o
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@Franko (sorry I must have missed your mediator post)
I'm running a Blizzard 060/PPC and Mediator setup and I must say its awesome!
I've got a Soundblaster 128 and a Voodoo 5 5500 hooked up to it. With the update patch OS4 runs with this setup right out of the box in RTG.
I'm personally looking forward to OS4.1 as I'm sure there will be a lot more options for it software wise as OS4 is a little thin on the ground.
I also use Amigasys4AGA and Classic Workbench P96 along with my RTG setup and they both look and run great.
I also have a stock OS3.9 setup running off the Blizzard SCSI which is nice and fast plus WarpOS/Warp3D all setup and working with the Voodoo 5.
I'm glad I got my PPC, I know it cost me an arm and a leg but I feel part of a very exclusive club and surprisingly I'm not at all worried about using it, I switch the machine on and use it daily.
Steve.
Hi Steve, just a quick couple of questions if I may... :)
Can you still buy the Soundblaster & Voodoo cards in the shops/online
and what speed is your BPPC running at. Mines is 60Mhz/240Mhz... :)
Decided I'm going to go with the mediator set up for now while I wait and see whether the X1000 or Natami ever appear.
Cheers :drink:
Franko
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I admit, but what matters to me is that the number of PPC Amigas is far less than the "classic" 68k ones right now.
And we, all amigans, have already a 68k processor (in a physical form or "emulated in software"), so we'll benefit for an updated "classic OS" on our old machines (and emulators).
This means you haven't to spend much money (also nothing) for improvements.
On the other end, following the PPC way, you have to buy new hardware, already proven to be very expensive (for the average pockets, at least), for a processor family whose life expectancy is far for being clear nor long (I know IBM is going on with it, but for how long?).
Some amigans already have PPC machines.
So the option of a FPGA-based processor (could be done forever if we have access to complex programmable logic) or backwards compatibility through software emulation on common hardware, is the most comfortable, cheap, valuable, long life way to go (in my opinion, of course).
But you have to buy those machine with a FPGA processor, it's the same point you were making for PPC.
Besides, all this doesn't make the 68k range CPU less dead.
Varthall
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@Varthall
The fact that the 68k is dead doesn't change the fact that the Amiga has been dead for years anyway but we still keep using them. Besides, softcores are more software-upgradable therefore a larger FPGA is going to be more cost-effective than fixed logic. Especially when you consider the costs of trying to buy a system that's fast enough to emulate a 50 MHz 68060 vs. having a 100+ MHz 680x0 softcore.
PPC doesn't have a suitable JIT in its versions of EUAE, after all, and still has no backward compatibility for the chipset in it's OS JIT. Factoring in for the 30% code-bloat associated with PPC's RISC instruction set (which translates into poor cache performance), this leaves the choices at 68k or Pentium. I'd choose 68k if it can be made competitive per clock (and the N68050 softcore is well optimized in that aspect).
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I keep reading on this site that X chip can do this and Y chip can do that and how these amazing pieces of modern day manufacturing can run rings round the old M68K series.
Why then, hasn't anyone yet produced one of these holy grail chips that can completely emulate 100% such old technology as the M68K series and the Amigas custom chipset.
It's surely not beyond the scope of today's engineers/designers/ programers to create such a thing if these chips are as good as some folk claim them to be... :)
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@Varthall
The fact that the 68k is dead doesn't change the fact that the Amiga has been dead for years anyway but we still keep using them.
Actually I was pointing out Ognix' contradiction, who stated that he's not interested in a PPC accelerator since PPC is dead, while he was praising AROS for 68k although 68k is dead as well.
Varthall
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I'd rather it if someone brought out an Amiga-style keyboard wedge case that fits a Mini-ITX motherboard and stick in a Sam440 to run OS4, or an iMica to run Aros.
Since Aros is making its way to 68k Amigas we're going to have a major OS update soon, meaning there's even less reason to upgrade to PPC just to use a newer OS on our classics.
Even if we got a new PPC accelerator, the Sam still has USB, RTG and 16bit audio, fast ethernet and a whole bunch of other features that would be slower on a PPC-powered classic Amiga.
I agree with this. There is no point in putting a MiniMig and PPC on the same accelerator since you'd just be using a few CIA chips in the host motherboard.
Implementing CIA chips in the FPGA softcore would be better because then you could leave the old hardware behind. You'd only need a Kickstart 3.1 ROM image to run the new system under AmigaOS 3.x and if you really NEED PPC compatibility, give it a Sonnet Crescendo G4 accelerator in a PCI slot.
The only point I'd disagree upon is that AROS will be a major upgrade for 68k. AfaOS already backported most of the features of AROS to AmigaOS 3.9 a long time ago. A few features of 3.9 need to be implemented in AROS before I consider it useful on 68k: bit-planar support for AGA or ECS would be chief among them. Otherwise you'll still be forced to use a graphics card on all AROS apps the same way as AfaOS does now. I think that will come eventually though.
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PPC is dead.
:hammer:
I'm sure Sony, Microsoft, IBM, and Freescale would
all appreciate an email, so they can adjust their paltry business plans accordingly.:roflmao:
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Don't forget Nintendo who have been using PPC since the GameCube and now the Wii.
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In regards to the poll Im not going to bother to vote, but I do have some thoughts, which I thought Id share with y'all.
Firstly, no I wouldnt buy a new ppc card for classics, as it'd more than likely be too slow to add much in the way of modern functionality. The classic itself would be an additional bottleneck to something that already would be very humble (in terms of modern computing). If a Sam440 struggles to even play dvds without dropping frames then what chance does something that'll be most likely slower have. I would however buy a new accelerator that aleviated the need for cpu resources, like an accelerator with onboard rtg + video decoder hardware.
I only glanced over the thread, but I noticed something about %-ages of members vs people voting and so on. One thing to bare in mind here is that the number of active people is significantly lower than the amount of actual members. Remember that Amigaworld doesnt close accounts, so there's probably a not small portion of members who dont actually use the site. I actually asked to have my account removed almost a year ago from amigaworld.net and they refused me, and I know Im far from the only one.
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I only glanced over the thread, but I noticed something about %-ages of members vs people voting and so on. One thing to bare in mind here is that the number of active people is significantly lower than the amount of actual members. Remember that Amigaworld doesnt close accounts, so there's probably a not small portion of members who dont actually use the site. I actually asked to have my account removed almost a year ago from amigaworld.net and they refused me, and I know Im far from the only one.
And still having a membership allows you to actually get the facts you are alluding to. Otherwise, you can not access the xoops members pages.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/xoopsmembers/
Try "Last login is less than X days ago" and enter "365".
1950 "members found" vs 4604 "members" shows on front page.
Rather open and honest, no?
#6
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Why insist on playing DVDs on an unsuited computer when you can buy a perfectly capable DVD player for close to nothing? Sometimes I get the feeling that video playback is the only thing amiga (and morphos) users care about, and for some weird reason they insist on doing it the worst way possible - on their puny, barely capable systems.
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What would be a reasonable price be for a new PPC board, in your opinion? Would one need to buy a RTG graphics card too in order to use OS4.1?
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@orb85750
About the same price as that of a Wii and some superglue :)