Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: runequester on October 01, 2010, 04:26:56 PM
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The infighting about "amiga" stuff is pretty legendary, and its something that is pretty much 25% of the traffic on this site.
My question is.. what is the point of it?
So we have 3 options for "next gen" amiga OS
Amiga OS 4
Morph OS
AROS.
Let's examine these individually.
Morph comes with an install requirement of "buy an old mac someone doesn't want on Craigslist", and has a hefty registration fee to actually use the damn thing for more than an hour.
OS 4 does less and only works on hardware thats on the wrong side of 800 dollars.
AROS is free but barely runs on anything.
I see people spending more time tearing down platform xx or yy than they do actually talking up their own product, all to convince people that their version is marginally better than the others, and that their chosen one is totally a mainstream OS.
I'd be surprised if either has an install base much over a thousand people.
What is it worth, other than internet nerd rage points ?
Why not cooperate and actually try to put something out there that might be remotely of interest to anybody other than the existing user base ?
Is the earth truly round ?
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AROS is free but barely runs on anything.
Huh?
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Could you please link to the infighting between the AROS and MorphOS communities?
Thanks!
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Its probably more OS4 vs Morph. The AROS guys seem to hang out somewhere else. or just try to do their thing.
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Could you please link to the infighting between the AROS and MorphOS communities?
Thanks!
Probably goes back when the AROS Devs found out the loop hole in the APL/MPL that allow any seperate files from APL code to be exempted from the APL. Like what is being done with FireFox/Timberwolf code, only the actual MPL files are being released to the public. This explains why some of the devs from those days went to LGPL/GPL for any new AROS code. I can't blame in the least either.
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When it comes to the Amiga I personally couldn't care less about Amiga OS 4, Morph OS or AROS. My souped up A1200 does everything I require and all the software I use is native 68K, with the odd exception of one or two bits of PPC software. :)
The only time that these other OS systems and language's may affect me is if I purchase an X1000.
To me, while others may be happy to use such things and use other non Amiga machines, then best of luck to them, and in a way they are still helping to keep the Amiga alive. I have and hopefully only ever will, use genuine classic Amiga hardware & software for 99% of my computing needs, as in my book that is the only time you can call yourself a true Amiga User. :)
PS:The earth is not round... :)
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The infighting about "amiga" stuff is pretty legendary, and its something that is pretty much 25% of the traffic on this site.
And this post is in that 25%.
How ironic you start a post questioning the point of the fighting, then proceed to take jabs at MorphOS, OS4, and AROS...
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And this post is in that 25%.
How ironic you start a post questioning the point of the fighting, then proceed to take jabs at MorphOS, OS4, and AROS...
I am aware of the irony. The point is there's nothing to be gained from the red and blue trolls slugging it out as nobody is where they ought to be yet.
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When it comes to the Amiga I personally couldn't care less about Amiga OS 4, Morph OS or AROS.
Exactly! I look at my Amigas the same way Jay Leno might look at a classic car. It's beautiful, simple, brings back happy memories and it is fun to take for a spin every now and then but I don't use them for every day activities.
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My question is.. what is the point of it?
I guess because the Atari guys are no enemies any more people have to find another victim.
On a more seroius note: There is none. So try to stay away from this (like I do) and enjoy the amigaverse instead.
Is the earth truly round ?
Not really. Actually it is pretty much shaped like an egg. ;-)
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I guess because the Atari guys are no enemies any more people have to find another victim.
I imagine there must be some retro atari communities out there still these days :)
Maybe we can fight those guys
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I imagine there must be some retro atari communities out there still these days :)
Maybe we can fight those guys
Would be much better than what's happenig atm really...
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More like a slightly flat ball (due to rotation) - howerver I don't know what kind of egg you're referring to.
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The point?
(http://perso.numericable.fr/eric.alglave/Grammaire/xfiles/images/1X23cap106.jpg)
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Probably goes back when the AROS Devs found out the loop hole in the APL/MPL that allow any seperate files from APL code to be exempted from the APL. Like what is being done with FireFox/Timberwolf code, only the actual MPL files are being released to the public. This explains why some of the devs from those days went to LGPL/GPL for any new AROS code. I can't blame in the least either.
That was not even my biggest gripe; it was that we needed to beg everytime we wanted the most recent version of the files that actually fall under MPL And a special arrangement had to be made with Georg Steger so he could filter the MPL code from their source repository and put it in the AROS one. According to the MPL it is the programmers task to release the source code.
To talk about infighting; I never liked the way BBRV seems to work and do business. He/they seemed never to be able to develop and market a product without stirring the pot and creating a lot of infighting.
greets,
Staf.
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When it comes to the Amiga I personally couldn't care less about Amiga OS 4, Morph OS or AROS. My souped up A1200 does everything I require and all the software I use is native 68K, with the odd exception of one or two bits of PPC software. :)
One day AROS will run on m68k ...
greets,
Staf.
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One day AROS will run on m68k ...
greets,
Staf.
I've never really looked properly at AROS, and to be honest I don't see what use it could be to me, I much prefer coding in the Amigas native 68k... :)
Would be interested though if someone would care to mention just why AROS may be of a benefit to me. :)
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Aros is for people who want the power of the PC, but don't want to run Windows, Linux or OSX to harness it.
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Huh?
Huh?
Would you like to me to list you several configurations that AROS won't run?
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Aros is for people who want the power of the PC, but don't want to run Windows, Linux or OSX to harness it.
So it's no use for me on an 060/PPC A1200 then... :(
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One day AROS will run on m68k ...
http://paste.pocoo.org/show/268888/
Got an arch/all-linux/kernel/sigcore.h.m68k.src for me? :)
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I much prefer coding in the Amigas native 68k
Your hacking on AmigaOS components and other programs is of little use for the rest of us you know :)
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http://paste.pocoo.org/show/268888/
Got an arch/all-linux/kernel/sigcore.h.m68k.src for me? :)
Your hacking on AmigaOS components and other programs is of little use for the rest of us you know
Still none the wiser !!! that link was total gobblydegook to me... :confused:
I aint hacking nuthing... my code is just for other bamsticks who might find it usefull... :)
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Your hacking on AmigaOS components and other programs is of little use for the rest of us you know :)
Like the man said - In this corner....
I still use mainly classic, or "real" Amigas - but I also use an emulator on my windows machine every now & then. Just because I don't use Morph OS or OS 4, I don't cut them down in any way shape or form. I don't understand the mentality that must cut down the other guys.
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Still none the wiser !!! that link was total gobblydegook to me... :confused:
It was just a snippet from aros build, the bit where it currently stops up for m68k :)
I aint hacking nuthing... my code is just for other bamsticks who might find it usefull... :)
I'm sure alot of people could find them usefull, but it's kinda hard to know when one don't even know what they are.. hint... hint... :)
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"Why not cooperate and actually try to put something out there that might be remotely of interest to anybody other than the existing user base ?"
Ummm. As if we have any control over the cooperation of OS4 and MOS developers and what they produce? Those are proprietary OS! (AROS is a place where cooperation is happening.)
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>Your hacking on AmigaOS components and other programs is of little use for the rest of us you know
Why would it be of little use?
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"AROS is free but barely runs on anything"
Aros runs on just about any pc, but the trick is selecting a suitable supported soundcard,network card and video card.
An sb live is 10$ on ebay, and solves amost any problems with sound you may experience. Same goes for network, pick up an intel network card for 10$ on ebay.
A list of supported video cards is also available, pick one, install it in the machine and you can get accellerated video working fine. I got a supported nvida card for 20$ on ebay.
Its much like linux at its start, when you had to make sure you had supported hardware. I can rememeber building a few pc's for linux back in the day from a list of supported hardware components.
Writing drivers for every sound,network and video card imaginable is just not feasable for aros. Pick up an sblive,intel network card and a supported video card, and Aros runs like a dream. If installing a video,network card and soundcard is not within your technical skills, then maybe you should stick to mac or windows.
You can get a 2-3ghz dell (or any pc) on ebay for 50$ add another 50$ for supported sound, video and network card, and for 100$ or so total you have an AROS system that runs rings around any classic machine, and any OS4 machine too, for that matter.
As far as the bickering, some of it is for good reasons. Some people insist on ppc, while others say intel is the way to go, and so on. People like different things. If you ask me, we should all be happy we have 3 choices.
I have the most experience with aros, but I have to say MorphOS looks awesome, and when I have the extra cash, I will be getting myself a mac mini or imac to run morph os on.
As far as OS4, its too expensive for such a crappy slow computer, but thats just my opinion, I wish them, and all their users the best.
Steven
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The infighting about "amiga" stuff is pretty legendary, and its something that is pretty much 25% of the traffic on this site.
My question is.. what is the point of it?
Natural Selection
The Earth is a polyhedron!
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...As far as OS4, its too expensive for such a crappy slow computer, but thats just my opinion, I wish them, and all their users the best.
Steven
I assume you haven't tried OS4.1 update 2 ? it's actually very responsive on my 800Mhz Sam flex and it's quicker than any accelerator PPC card every made for the classic amiga by far....also it will be even quicker on the new Sam460ex and X1000:cool:
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See that? Speaking of infighting, I don't really care how snappy os4 is on your 800mhz sam system is... 500$ just for a motherboard? Complete system at amigakit is 900$ Thats crazy.
I'm pretty sure aros on my 100$ 3.0ghz machine smokes that system, especially for things like 3d rendering. I support your right to use that if it makes you happy though. Sometimes there is no better or worse, its just a matter of personal tastes.
Steven
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Just to add my own flaming:
I have been lucky and had the oportunity to test all the Amigoid OSes
-MorphOS is slick and fast, but I dont feel at home with it. Blame me, the old schooler.
-AROS is a great concept which has evolved greatly during the last years. It has become a tempting alternative.
-AmigaOS 68k is an oldie goldie. The true thing. I love it, despite its drawbacks. I enjoy tinkering with it. I will never leave it.
-OS4 was a huge dissapointment for me. I expected an improved 3.9 experience, and I got an incompatible, unstable and downgraded one. And I am not talking about its hardware! It could have been so great, I was expecting it with open arms, but well... they run short... so short.
BTW The Earth is a boing ball!
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See that? Speaking of infighting
nah mate, no fighting at all, I was just responding to your previous comment:
"As far as OS4, its too expensive for such a crappy slow computer, but thats just my opinion, I wish them, and all their users the best."
see that? ;)
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Maybe thats part of the problem I also had with os4. I also expected an updated more modern 3.9 too. What I experienced when I tried a friends sam system was 68k apps that didn't work. Slow, not as slick as 3.9.
I much preferred running 3.9 on an emulator to the experience of os4.
Amiga forever costs 50$ and I prefer that to os4, because almost every
classic app just works.
I haven't had a chance to try morphos yet, but everything I have seen and heard about it from users looks awesome. I've been drooling over screenshots and youtube videos. I'm planning on buying an imac and registering morphos. Just what I needed, one more computer in the man cave...
Steven
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I've never really looked properly at AROS, and to be honest I don't see what use it could be to me, I much prefer coding in the Amigas native 68k... :)
Would be interested though if someone would care to mention just why AROS may be of a benefit to me. :)
Hi,
@Franko,
I have tried AROS on several of my machines, could get them running for everything except browsing on the internet, seems that the internet part needs a special nic card.
So
I see no use for AROS as of yet, it is cool to try to run another OS, but an OS without software is like a car without tires, it runs but it just doesn't go anywhere.
MorphOS-- who the heck wants to own a special MAC, my gosh the people comming up with this stuff is worse than Commodore, but they shouldn't have to follow Commodore's style. Why not work on something that will work on today's modern day computer's, especially when I have to pay for it.
OS-4 -- when will Amigians finally relize that PPC's are dead, finished, gone forever, they are about as old as the Amiga. Then they bring out a 800 mhz SAM and expect me to buy it just to run OS-4. Once again a car without wheels, it runs, but sure isn't going to go anywhere and besides who wants an old VW engine in their car. Come on, lets try getting something that uses the new modern speedy engines of todays computer, instead of a single core, how about a 4 or 6 core engine.
Now listen up fellow Amigians, we need a system that is new, will run all kinds of software, and will be interesting to developers all the way around but mostly run with newer specs and be ready for upgradable software.
In other words put the darn wheels back on the car so that we can go somewhere.
smerf
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Hi,
@haywirepc,
I'm planning on buying an imac and registering morphos. Just what I needed, one more computer in the man cave...
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Know how you feel, I have several old computers laying around but why should I buy an old outdated computer to run some software that I have to pay bucks for that has no software company developers developing for it. Excuse me, I usually don't go out and buy an old outdated computer, then spend $150 to run just an operating system. I don't drool over anything like that, I LOL, at people who support this insanity. If you are going to charge me for an OS, then at least make it able to run on todays modern day computer systems which might have a chance of attracting software companies to try writing software for it.
smerf
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Hi,
@ Haywirepc,
Hey are you a Phillies fan, they look pretty good this year, but the Eagles still look like they are a bunch of losers, maybe Vick will pull them out.
I go for the gold, I am a Pittsbugh Steeler fan, and live a little North of you up in Wilkes Barre, where you have to walk the streets with a 357 Ruger in order to go to the store, and where the Mayor of Wilkes Barre charges you 3% tax for this excitement.
smerf
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Huh?
Would you like to me to list you several configurations that AROS won't run?
I bet AmigaOS4 or MorphOS won't run on these machine either ...
Given that AROS runs hosted under linux I claim it can run on much more machines than any of the other OSes from the Amiga family.
greets,
Staf.
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So it's no use for me on an 060/PPC A1200 then... :(
The m68k AROS version of should run on your machine and would be comparable to an OS upgrade on the machine.
greets,
Staf.
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Back in the day, there was more competition between MorpOS and AmigaOS4. I think that some of us got caught up in the frenzy of mud-slinging and name-calling and trolling.
In my own case, I wanted to upgrade from a very old Classic Amiga running AmigaOS 3.1 to the "next generation". At that time, there were two choices (MorphOS and AmigaOS4) and they ran on different hardware . I could not afford to purchase both systems. I chose one and was immediately branded as being a member of that camp.
It all seems so silly to me now.
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redfox
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Getting back to the original topic ...
Whats the point of the infighting?
Maybe all we have to do is use some common courtesy in the forums.
We are all individuals, with different tastes and different needs and different priorities and different spending habits.
We have many choices available to us:
a wide variety of Classic Amiga machines
a wide variety of emulation products
MorphOS
AROS
AmigaOS 4
IMHO, if your choice gives you that "Amiga" feeling, then you have made a good choice.
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redfox
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Aros is for people who want the power of the PC, but don't want to run Windows, Linux or OSX to harness it.
Until AROS gets working 64-bit SMP and OpenCL (on the reasonable assumption that CUDA is a complete impossibility), I'll still have to stick with Linux to harness the power in mine.
Mind you, the only times I ran AROS on it recently were via linux anyway, so actually, that's not really much of a problem.