Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: orb85750 on September 29, 2010, 07:33:15 PM
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I respect what they're doing with this machine, but I won't be buying one because I don't have that type of discretionary income. Who seriously plans to buy one soon after it's available? Anyone here?
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no
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I must say no.
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Nope.
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What's this currently clocking in at - $2500 or more? If so, F-no! I plan on purchasing at least a Dual Core 27" iMac and an iPad with my 'fun' money in the very near future. Had the X1000 been in the $1k-$1.5k arena, then I would have seriously considered putting the Mac off and going for it. I guess I'll just wait and purchase used when the time comes.
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Only if it's totally compatible (without any emulators) C64/C128/A1200/A3000/A4000/CD32/PS1/PS2/PS3 :mickeymouse:
Seriously: yes with price below 800.00 EUR (approx.: $1000.00 USD).
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Forget it.. Too expensive.
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I am a potential customer. Today I own a SAM400EP Flex and love to use the machine for a lot of my computing needs. There are currently just two things that bug me about it:
A) I can´t get the audio-In to work.
B) It is too slow to play video recorded with a FLIP-camera.
I think even the first version of the X1000 will be able to do that and will run everything SAM runs today.
I am saving a little now and maybe in 2011, if I don´t have other important needs at the time, I might get one. I feel it is a far better investment for me than some iPhone/iPad or plasma-TVs or 5.1 audio-systems which some people are buying these days.
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I respect what they're doing with this machine, but I won't be buying one because I don't have that type of discretionary income. Who seriously plans to buy one soon after it's available? Anyone here?
Unless the production unit costs a lot less than the beta board alone, I am going to have to say no. I am willing to buy a new pre-built computer to run AmigaOS but I can't justify $2500-$3000 for it. I haven't spent that much on the 3 modern computers in my house right now.
I certainly expect a mark up because the market is small and the hardware is custom. Unlike the markup on other niche platform vendors, that use all industry standard parts. However, it's simply too much for me to afford.
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No
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No, I'm happy with my Pegasos II running OS4.1u2. This toy is too expensive to be justified.
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Nope. For $99 you can get an XMOS dev kit and connect it to any computer you want - there goes the X1000's big "feature" right there.
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They should just launch AmigaOS 4.1 on X86 hardware. So much much more cheaper.
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No.
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No
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I was a yes, but am still a maybe.
Those worried about the cost, why worry? You'll probably get your money back in 20 years anyway from the collectors! :P You'll get buttons for your x86 stuff.
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Hell no! It makes SAMs look cheap by comparison. Makes EFIKA-MX netbook price look like pocket change.
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They should just launch AmigaOS 4.1 on X86 hardware. So much much more cheaper.
^^^^ This
My answer: Nope
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Have to wait and see just what it can do first, if it ever appears... :)
(maybe..)
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So far and easily, a majority of us are quickly saying no way. It'll be nice to keep track of who actually plans on purchasing and then see what they think.
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nop
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aol
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Possibly... but first it'd have to be less than £1000 ($1900 USD) and secondly it'd need a more modern spec with a lot of support, i.e. at least Core i3 comparable performance, 4GB minimum, good launch software. Basically A4000'030 launch price.
I'd also want to see a TV advert to know they are serious and to make sure my X1000 would have resale value as a collectors item should the worst happen (Commodore curse and all).
As it stands, no at the moment.
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Many of us old timers have no desire to buy pre-built anythings, much less a pre-built, overpriced Amiga in trim many people don't like to start with. They need to offer mobo's for me to even look at them, even if they were far cheaper.
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NO
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I'd also want to see a TV advert to know they are serious
Would a video on YouTube be serious enough? Because that's about the extent of it.
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Nope...
I don't even want to buy a Sam because they're too expensive, the Sam looks cheap compared to the x1000.
/edit
Besides, I see no point in spending money on an OS which has a software library that exist mainly of (quick & dirty) Linux ports. I can run these programs better/faster on my main system; a 7 year old x86 box running Debian Sid. BTW the same goes for MorphOS which I've used for nearly 7 years.
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No.
Not that they'll be making them anyway!
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Oh dear its not looking good for x1000 already . I would love to but like the rest it looks way to over priced unless something big happens on launch like os5 comes out with new workbench gui and lots of addon supported like printers ect.
sam460 is looking more like what I will end up with
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I'll have to say no for now, I just don't have the money. I'm more likely to buy a Natami and a SAM to be honest but even that will have to wait until 2011.
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No.
Not that they'll be making them anyway!
To elaborate on my previous post, if I had the money I would buy one, but alas...
(Not that they'll be making them anyway)
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Yes
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Of course not.
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Nope. Too expensive and underpowered.
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No.
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A great big resounding NO.
Its interesting that so many people here, who should be their core market, are all saying no way to purchase this thing.
With so many big amiga fans here saying no, looks like that thing is doomed before its even available.
I can get a mac g4 and run morphos for much less, and also build a custom aros machine, I'd still have money left to buy a new windows pc
and a new netbook.
Gee, I wonder why no one will buy this thing?
Steven
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Not a chance in this world!
Maybe AROS will be released for a new x86 based Commodore Amiga in the future? Perhaps I would consider that if the price is right, but that's probably how close I will come to new Amiga branded products as it seems today. The prices that the other "Amiga" parties are asking for Amiga branded products are nothing short of insane, and especially so considering what you actually get for your money.
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(http://www.2time-sys.com/2TimeBlog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/just_say_no.gif)
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(http://www.2time-sys.com/2TimeBlog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/just_say_no.gif)
+1
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Well, there is at least one 'yes' here and a number of 'maybe' answers. Perhaps a few percent of A.org users will purchase and it will be a good start for the X1000. I do wish them the best, but I also wish there were a really cheap PPC solution for running OS4!
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nope,
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No(http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YLprk-yUqxDRjde9HKSjhuTbX5-X69rXVy0UZKwhAUI?feat=directlink)(http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YLprk-yUqxDRjde9HKSjhuTbX5-X69rXVy0UZKwhAUI?feat=directlink)(http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YLprk-yUqxDRjde9HKSjhuTbX5-X69rXVy0UZKwhAUI?feat=directlink)
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Again, no.
Too pricey.
Already running MorphOS, Linux and Windows.
And Amiga is just a name.
Unless you're counting old hardware (and then I'd rather have a C65).
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While I appreciate the efforts and money the people behind the X1000 have invested, and wish them well (hopefully they dont lose money on it), I just cant fathom spending that sort of money on a machine that gives me nothing practical over my 2 year old core2duo AROS machine(@3.86ghz) (which cost me about 1/4 of the price even back then). Even performance wise the single core that is currently active in my AROS box would most likely outperform a PA6T with both cores active, not to mention the vastly superior (also ageing) graphics card in my AROS box (gf9600GT)..... while all 3 "NG" systems (mos/aros/os4) have advantages over each other, the practical benefits to the end user are minimal at best,.... it's the experience Im after, not the name and as such I just cant bring myself to spend that sort of money on hardware that offers me nothing (and is in fact inferior) over what can be bought now for about 1/6th of the price.
Now that the diplomacy is out of the way:
What, are you kidding me ? No freaking way :P
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Nope, way too much for my limited 'hobby fund'.
About the only thing I might be buying in the near future is the FPGA Arcade (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/index.htm) which will be much more affordable.
I just upgraded my old PC to a cute little ASUS Nvidia ION MiniITX-PC which cost me about $800 (AU) and couldn't justify spending any more than that on a 'home computer' no matter what badge it had on the front.
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Even having truckloads of money to buy, no. My laptop is good for my computing needs and the classic Amigas for the fun moments.
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I do wish them the best, but I also wish there were a really cheap PPC solution for running OS4!
You mean like a Mac Mini?? :griping:
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(http://www.2time-sys.com/2TimeBlog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/just_say_no.gif)
+2
The projected cost of this thing represents about what I've spent on computing in totality over the past decade.
No way in hell I would plunk down that kind of cash on a single unit, especially when there is no certainty that the hardware would ever be fully supported by the OS within a reasonable expectation of the hardware's lifetime.
As far as the Amiga goes, the only project that holds any interest for me is the MinimigAGA. Both the expected cost and the reasonable nature of the project, (not to mention the proven track record of the developer behind it) make it a much more easily justified purchase.
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Nope, way too much money.
Amiga needs to get on the x86 bandwagon and sell software.
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If my friend Spartacus buys one, so will I....
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No.
Because I don't buy the idea that we must have unique hardware in 2010. It only gives us disadvantages as in no-growth of possible users & devs. 1985 isn't gonna come back you know.
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No way!!
Maybe it's better to spend _some_ money on upgrading my "classic" hardware (just like having fun with a special old sports car - which I own :) ).
I really loved the motto "Only Amiga makes it possible!", but now it became "Only Amiga makes it impossible!" somehow...
Back in the days you can do wonderful things (graphics, audio, programming, etc.) with a wonderful computer (eg. A500) at the fraction of the cost of the others (while them weren't able to do the same).
Now we are not able to do the same as "the others" at 5 times the cost of them! :(
That doesn't mean "leave the Amiga" (I won't absolutely never), but consider it with a realistic view, with its (now few) strong points and limitations.
As I wrote in the past the only way the OS can survive and grow somehow (doesn't mean mainstream), is going in ONE direction (read ONE flavour): to x86 (eg. AROS).
Continuing following multiple "options" reduces delevoping force and intentions (roadmap to clear objectives).
Continuing on PPC, leads to nothing, even if we choose "largely" available hardware platforms (see Mac Mini) which are a dead end as well.
That's my opinion.
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Being single and livin' under the roof of my parents and holding down two jobs money is no obstacle to me so I'll be placing my order on day one.
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Let me see...
I own a SAM 667 a SAM 733 and a SAM 800...
I'll be getting two X1000s the 2nd one inline with the first cpu upgrade...
I will get the SAM 460 a bit later on...
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@slayer
And I haven't owned an Amiga since 1997 so will be interesting comeback for me.
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I'm in! not a second thought. It would be good to buy an amiga i don't have to assemble like the sams. It's a relief to be able to associate amiga and quality in the same sentence together. I think the x1000 will go down quite well :)
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It's a relief to be able to associate amiga and quality in the same sentence together.
Isn't that a bit premature, considering the product isn't even out yet? Or what are you basing this "quality" association on?
I don't associate "quality" with AmigaONE, quite the opposite actually.
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True its premature Piru, but wrong for you to mention AmigaOne in the broader sense after all the previous models were made by someone else as I am sure you know.
Just have to see how well the Beta test programme goes down... if its all plan sailing I would hope for a release by December. *fingers crossed*
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True its premature Piru, but wrong for you to mention AmigaOne in the broader sense after all the previous models were made by someone else as I am sure you know.
Just have to see how well the Beta test programme goes down... if its all plan sailing I would hope for a release by December. *fingers crossed*
:confused:
Unless I missed something, the general public will have no clue how the beta program goes, unless they shell out the money and join it. IIRC the beta users sign away their rights as end users and sign a NDA.
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Yes, I'm save money for it.
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It's quite a distinction to be able to shell out £1,150 for a motherboard and have to sign a gag order too....
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You know what, I wanted an AmigaONE in the past but never enough made to purchase them freely. Performance/price was bearable on that.
I think given the time that has elapsed and because OS4 only uses one core and no multi-threading the x1000 max price for a complete solution needs to be under £1000 simple as that. If this was the price I would get one because as a business user the security would be nice....unlike PCs which get ass raped as soon as you plug em into the net. And Apple is overpriced shite.
The machine is not the problem, the price is. Had they had the intelligence to just partner with IBM and get a Xenon 3.2ghz based solution (the CPU would have cost them peanuts and IBM NOT Microsoft own the rights to Xenon as in the Xbox360) things would be OK at even at £1500.
Mac users pay a premium for a variation of Linux with mild enhancements, I see nothing wrong in wanting a super fast OS4 machine. SAM and others are lame ducks as far as CPU speed goes and are also 200% overpriced IMO.
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Nope
I thought the A1 was overpriced and so to the sam and the Peg1 and PegII
Very happy with my £150 mac mini, might not be amazing to expand, but its the fastest PPC NExt Gen AmigaLike OS running machine out there and a great price
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Got a nice Mac Mini sat next to me at work which I own with a funky wireless keyboard... love em, but shame its Intel :(
May not be amazingly expandable, but has plenty of USB ports and who needs more RAM when you got 2GB and run Mac OS X... thats right virtually no-one!
And thats pretty much what the AmigaOne X1000 will have, plenty of RAM, heaps more USB ports, and a very comparable amount of Ghz. Just need all the compatibility issues to fall into place.
Edit: By Compatibility I mean.. all the hardware supported, extra cores, general USB etc...
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nope
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wrong for you to mention AmigaOne in the broader sense after all the previous models were made by someone else
They deliberately use the "AmigaONE" name with it. This means that it will be associated with the previous models, regardless who will be making it. If they would have wanted to make a break from the past they easily could have.
So until they've actually managed to get some end user products out there's only the ealier AmigaONE experiences to go by. Which weren't exactly smooth sailing to put it lightly.
I would hope for a release by December. *fingers crossed*
I would consider it remarkable if the beta boards would be delivered by end of the year.
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I will play around with the beta board. I never used AmigaOS 4.x and i would like to see it on a 1.8Ghz machine. Also you have to admit that having a workground for 64Bit and dualcore support is neat. But i understand the concerns about the price too.
Well since more apps will come for AROS, MOS and AmigaOS i need some machines : )
What is the €/Mhz ratio for other available machines? (Not MOS and AROS ones)
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No, I already got 4.0 on my A4000 CSPCC, and 4.1.2 on my Sam...
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no my money if I have any, is going toward mikes fpgaarcade. I have no use for a 'modern' non smp non 64bit pc. If I'm spending money its on a board that can run c64 with vga out and original amiga with vga out, thats what I want. If I want ppc amiga emulation I do it on my quadcore x86 with 16gb ram.
x1000, too expensive for no payoff (what can I do with it for that much money??)
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x1000, too expensive for no payoff (what can I do with it for that much money??)
I bought this for what an X1000 will cost!
(http://jungle.net/tone/bug1.jpg)
Maybe I should paint it like a boing ball.
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Money would have been better spent on X1000 than that pile of crap :)
Sorry I am sure you love beetles. I can't stand them/ They look like upside down old prams
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Money would have been better spent on X1000 than that pile of crap :)
Sorry I am sure you love beetles. I can't stand them/ They look like upside down old prams
...and yet it will hold its value far, far longer than Teron boards, industrial mini-ITX boards or PA6T boards ever could.
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I'm thinking about buying, but not right now.
Yet it is quite expensive, especially for Russia, with our small income.
Must be a way to buy just the motherboard - transfer large amounts of weight and rather expensive, difficult to pass the customs bureaucracy.
And all that is written "no," I want to say - you are enemies of amiga platform. Developers spent a lot of funds and time that would create a new, relatively competitive platform, and you can't spend some money once in 2-3 years to upgrade the computer on your favorite platform?
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I'm thinking about buying, but not right now.
Yet it is quite expensive, especially for Russia, with our small income.
Must be a way to buy just the motherboard - transfer large amounts of weight and rather expensive, difficult to pass the customs bureaucracy.
And all that is written "no," I want to say - you are enemies of amiga platform. Developers spent a lot of funds and time that would create a new, relatively competitive platform, and you can't spend some money once in 2-3 years to upgrade the computer on your favorite platform?
Or paint it yellow and you got your own Herbie. :lol:
@easy_john
Yeah buying a new computer every 2 or 3 years isn't a lot to ask now is it. Although the use of the word 'enemies' is probably misguided.
Anyways a similar thread (and more importantly a Poll) I started on AW is looking more positive at this moment in time at least. Although still quite divided.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32461&forum=33 (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32461&forum=33)
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I even say that it is not so much a question of buying a new motherboard, how to support the development amiga as platform altogether.
I believe that everyone who is connected with Amiga, must somehow try to help in its development.
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And all that is written "no," I want to say - you are enemies of amiga platform.
Oh dear.
Developers spent a lot of funds and time
Yes.
that would create a new, relatively competitive platform
No. Whichever way you look at it, it sure isn't competitive.
and you can't spend some money once in 2-3 years to upgrade the computer on your favorite platform?
"some money". You're kidding right?
I even say that it is not so much a question of buying a new motherboard, how to support the development amiga as platform altogether. I believe that everyone who is connected with Amiga, must somehow try to help in its development.
Regardless what you might want to think AmigaOS4 isn't the whole amiga platform, there are many other interesting developments and products to buy. Many don't consider AmigaOS4 any more amiga than the alternatives. So, why should anyone feel obliged to pay for something they don't consider worthy?
Just because someone is stupid enough to create a product that is hideously expensive and that has very tiny market doesn't mean we should be saving them from their own stupidity. Create a product that is reasonably priced with great balance of features and people will buy it.
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Although the use of the word 'enemies' is probably misguided.
maybe it's not quite accurate translation. In Russia there are well-established expression "You're your own enemy," it means that a person does something that will be worse for himself.
Without the support and regular production, although not very productive motherboard - platform dies, it's stupid not to understand. Anyone who says "I'm amiga-fan, but I will not buy a new board" is contributing to that development stops at all.
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I even say that it is not so much a question of buying a new motherboard, how to support the development amiga as platform altogether.
I believe that everyone who is connected with Amiga, must somehow try to help in its development.
We're talking about the X1000 here, not the Amiga.
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No. Whichever way you look at it, it sure isn't competitive.
So, no less - is better than it was before.
Without small steps will not be a major step.
Each purchased board, an investment in the continued development of the platform that would go on to make faster and more interesting board.
"some money". You're kidding right?
Аor me - it's very noticeable amount. I think I can spend money only in the spring.
On the other hand, if you look what Amiga motherboards, we were able to buy only once in 2-4 years, was really a new board. To do an upgrade every 3-4 years is not too often.
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We're talking about the X1000 here, not the Amiga.
oh, okay, do not have this flaming about that Amiga, and what does not Amiga.
Not too much hardware in the world, to run amigaos.
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Create a product that is reasonably priced with great balance of features and people will buy it.
I understand that to create a product that is comparable in complexity to a modern motherboard, the cheaper it is impossible.
Why do you think otherwise?
There are examples of cheap motherboards that were released in small batches?
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I understand that to create a product that is comparable in complexity to a modern motherboard, the cheaper it is impossible.
Why do you think otherwise?
What makes you think I think otherwise? I don't.
There are examples of cheap motherboards that were released in small batches?
There are none.
Which is kind of my point. That's why it is pure madness to try build new custom powerpc hardware. It will be hideously expensive, with little to no support and after couple of years once the manufacturer is gone there will be no way to get repairs or spare parts. It just doesn't make any sense.
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... and when was it planned to be released?
For me it is a NO.
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So Piru's answer is not even bother trying?
@jorkany - That old chestnut again. Considering X1000 and SAM range contain AmigaOS they can be considered an Amiga. There are other threads devoted to nit-pickers I am sure.
(ME: Although the use of the word 'enemies' is probably misguided.)
(EASY JOHN: maybe it's not quite accurate translation. In Russia there are well-established expression "You're your
own enemy," it means that a person does something that will be worse for himself.
Without the support and regular production, although not very productive motherboard - platform dies, it's stupid not to understand. Anyone who says "I'm amiga-fan, but I will not buy a new board" is contributing to that development stops at all.)
Yeah I can understand that 100%. Problem is there a lot of people on this board who don't really support Amiga and just come here to whinge about 'how things could have been' and look back into the past too much.
easy_john wrote: that would create a new, relatively competitive platform
piru replied: No. Whichever way you look at it, it sure isn't competitive.
Lacking in some big areas yes, but the OS looks fairly up to par in the most important of areas:
* Program Launcher
* File Exploration
* Networking between Macs and PCs
* Internet, FTP, Email
* Desktop and Gui preferences etc
Sure things maybe a little less eye-candy, but pretty functionality. Once again it really depends on everyone's personal expectations of what an operating system should offer.
If you want amazing third-party apps you have to give developers a great system first and the new Amiga specs do exactly that for the AVERAGE user.. ie. the biggest userbase.
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So Piru's answer is not even bother trying?
I'd guess he would say, there is more than one way to skin a cat :lol:
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Which is kind of my point. That's why it is pure madness to try build new custom powerpc hardware. It will be hideously expensive, with little to no support and after couple of years once the manufacturer is gone there will be no way to get repairs or spare parts. It just doesn't make any sense.
Okay, but without the hardware - platform is dead. What's your idea?
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Okay, but without the hardware - platform is dead. What's your idea?
Project Moana?
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I think the money spent on developing the X1000 would have been better spent on the MPC8610 Open Source Mainboard bounty.
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Project Moana?
Moana support only PPC mac? No way, it's deadlock. No more PPC mac hardware.
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When you have been using the Amiga right from the start just like I & many here have, you do have the tendency too look back and say what if & if only.
However that in no way means that I don't support anyone who tries to bring us new Amiga related products. You have to take each thing as it comes and judge it on it's own merits.
I've looked at all the products that have been released since the true Amiga died, I can only say none of them were for me. I'm just hoping that the X1000 will prove to be the one I'm after.
I don't understand why some folk keep going on about things being too expensive, if it's your main hobby and you what your doing brings you enjoyment, then surely the cost doesn't matter...
There is no point in saying Yes or No right now to the X1000 as it's best to wait and see just what it can actually do, if it ever does get released. That's why I said maybe earlier. :)
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Moana support only PPC mac? No way, it's deadlock. No more PPC mac hardware.
PPC Mac will be around for much longer than X1000 ever can. PPC Mac will have spare parts and repairs available for much longer than X1000 ever can.
It's just raw numbers. Millions of PPC Macs were sold. Even in the most optimistic scenarios X1000 will never be able to break a few thousand.
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So Piru's answer is not even bother trying?
No, I mean there are better ways to do it rather than banging your head against the custom ppc hw wall.
piru replied: No. Whichever way you look at it, it sure isn't competitive.
Lacking in some big areas yes, but the OS looks fairly up to par in the most important of areas:
* Program Launcher
* File Exploration
* Networking between Macs and PCs
* Internet, FTP, Email
* Desktop and Gui preferences etc
You must be kidding. AmigaOS4 is somewhere around late 90s in those areas. Not even close to what can be expected by average user these days. Workbench is outdated as hell and file exploration with it is quite awful, setting up file shares is extremely painful, there's no flash, browser situation is quite bleak (maybe NetSurf will come to rescue, OWB for OS4 is dead, Timberwolf is useless for any real world usage for now). Email clients are very basic and crude. Preferences are incoherent mess.
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I'd rather have a NatAmi than an X1000. The NatAmi will run more Amiga software than the X1000 ever will unless things have changed dramatically with the design of the X1000. EUAE stinks on OS4 due to lack of a JIT.
If raw brute force is needed, I'll just write an Erlang to VHDL converter and bang the bare FPGA on the NatAmi. I think that's not even an option on the X1000.
Popcorn anyone? :)
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Another perspective on price.
In 1989 I along with my two brothers stumped up £360 for a basic A500 and no software. I think the dealer felt sorry for us and threw in a copy of Photon Paint.
Using RPI that £360 would be £671 today. And using UK national average earnings it would be £842 today. If we did the same for a B2000, then I suspect that today's prices would be similar if not more than the X1000.
Now, I am happy to admit that the B2000 was ahead of the competition on ability and price, and the X1000 isn't, but for me it puts it in perspective.
Especially as I make about 50000% more per week than then. And especially as the entire production run of the X1000 is probably less than a couple of hours production run of the A500 when I bought it.
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PPC Mac will be around for much longer than X1000 ever can. PPC Mac will have spare parts and repairs available for much longer than X1000 ever can.
It's just raw numbers. Millions of PPC Macs were sold. Even in the most optimistic scenarios X1000 will never be able to break a few thousand.
Mac PPC is an old hardware and it does not develop, even if ppc ia a lot. If you go to the mac PPC now, what to do in 2-3 years? begin to develop new x1000 will be even harder.
Amigaos need new hardware, which would be developed, albeit slowly. Transition to a mac is good in the short term and very bad in the future.
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Gawd... It amazes me why some of the folk who post on this site are even here at all...
It's called Amiga.org, the name should give you a clue !!!
It's not called Mac.org, PC.org or AnythingButAmiga.org...
If you want to talk about such things then go to an appropriate site where you can happily express your biased views.
This site should be about the Amiga, not those pretend Amiga users who only run an emulator, who want to harp on about macs & pc's and like nothing more than trying to put down 80s & 90s hardware, cos it doesn't match their expectations of what todays hardware is capable of...
Get A life... :rolleyes:
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@ajlwalker
In 1989 you got the state of the art system with ton of useful software and games that was no-where to be found on other platforms. The HW was revolutionary and unique, as well as the operating system (for personal computers). The whole setup performed really well against the system of the time, too.
This isn't the case with X1000. X1000 was already ageing technology when it was planned. There are no software titles or games that would justify it either.
Even if you forget all that the PC systems were even more expensive back in 1989. In 2011 you can get probably at least 4-8 better performing PCs with the price (depending on how DYI you'll go).
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Mac PPC is an old hardware and it does not develop, even if ppc ia a lot. If you go to the mac PPC now, what to do in 2-3 years?
I'll still run my favorite amigoid OS on the PowerBook 1.67GHz laptop and multi-GHz Power Mac G5. Why?
Amigaos need new hardware, which would be developed, albeit slowly. Transition to a mac is good in the short term and very bad in the future.
I don't agree. The volumes are so small that it makes no sense whatsoever to try to make your own custom HW. What you need to do is to port your OS to whatever suitable PowerPC hardware there is. There is no way that AmigaOS alone can drive dekstop PowerPC further.
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@ajlwalker
You're forgetting that the 1989 A500/A2000 and the 2011 X1000 are not equal in terms of what you get for your money.
In 1989 you got the state of the art system with ton of useful software and games that was no-where to be found on other platforms. The HW was revolutionary and unique, as well as the operating system (for personal computers). The whole setup performed really well against the system of the time, too.
This isn't the case with X1000. X1000 was already ageing technology when it was planned. There are no software titles or games that would justify it either.
Even if you forget all that the PC systems were even more expensive back in 1989. In 2011 you can get probably at least 4-8 better performing PCs with the price (depending on how DYI you'll go).
No Piru, I don't think I'm forgetting any of that, especially when I said:
"Now, I am happy to admit that the B2000 was ahead of the competition on ability and price, and the X1000 isn't......."
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Gawd... It amazes me why some of the folk who post on this site are even here at all...
It's called Amiga.org, the name should give you a clue !!!
It's not called Mac.org, PC.org or AnythingButAmiga.org...
If you want to talk about such things then go to an appropriate site where you can happily express your biased views.
This site should be about the Amiga, not those pretend Amiga users who only run an emulator, who want to harp on about macs & pc's and like nothing more than trying to put down 80s & 90s hardware, cos it doesn't match their expectations of what todays hardware is capable of...
Get A life... :rolleyes:
amiga.org is free for all, and I think you should really consult the "Site Information and Policies" link at the bottom of the page if you still don't get it. These forums are meant for discussion. If you don't like it, you can always leave and find some other forums that will ban free speech.
If you don't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
As for "trying to put down 80s & 90s hardware, cos it doesn't match their expectations of what todays hardware is capable of", I really don't understand what you're talking about.
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No Piru, I don't think I'm forgetting any of that, especially when I said:
"Now, I am happy to admit that the B2000 was ahead of the competition on ability and price, and the X1000 isn't......."
Hm right. Sorry about that, missed it somehow.
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I'll still run my favorite amigoid OS on the PowerBook 1.67GHz laptop and multi-GHz Power Mac G5. Why?
I don't agree. The volumes are so small that it makes no sense whatsoever to try to make your own custom HW. What you need to do is to port your OS to whatever suitable PowerPC hardware there is. There is no way that AmigaOS alone can drive dekstop PowerPC further.
I agree it is sensible to port to what hardware is available, but what do you do in the future? Where next for MorphOS for example? Will you be porting to PS3 or XBOX360? What other mass produced PPC hardware is out there after the end of PPC Macs?
At the same time, I can see easy_john's point of view. I'm fortunate I can afford to buy an X1000 and for me the price will be worth it for the novelty value. That A500 was the last brand new Amiga I owned. My A1200 was 2nd hand and my A600 was rescued from a skip. I haven't used NG Amiga, and I am curious.
For all I use computers for, it will be entirely adequate for me.
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Even if you forget all that the PC systems were even more expensive back in 1989. In 2011 you can get probably at least 4-8 better performing PCs with the price (depending on how DYI you'll go).
And why the PC has become so cheap now? Because it is a lot of buying, and many produce. If someone wants to have evolved Amiga - you need to regularly release new products and sell them. Do not get a jerk to release the "super-motherboard" and immediately become a champion. Should be published each year, buy an upgrade. Thereby increasing the turnover and developers, and the presence of the secondary market and the number of people using the Amiga.
It's long and hard way, but it's only one way for non-mainstream platform.
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I agree with Piru.
Powerpc macs are plentiful, cheap and plenty of spare parts.
What do you think a blown motherboard on the x1000 would cost you to replace? or do you just throw it in the trash and spend another 2500$ if that happens on a new one?
People are too hung up on the name. Morph is worlds ahead in terms of usability and its inexpensive in comparison too. The hardware available is
as powerful for a small fraction of the price.
If you like ppc, Morph on mac hardware is a great way to go I think.
Personally, I don't care about the hardware, I care about the software and the end user experience.
Price of the toys however, of course, is a concern for everyone.
Steven
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Hm right. Sorry about that, missed it somehow.
No need to apologise. You did make some good points about software, which I guess I didn't think about in depth.
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I agree it is sensible to port to what hardware is available, but what do you do in the future? Where next for MorphOS for example?
Short term Power Macs and Mac laptops.
Will you be porting to PS3 or XBOX360? What other mass produced PPC hardware is out there after the end of PPC Macs?
It remains to be seen. Maybe something will come along or maybe not. One possibility is to migrate to other mainstream platforms. At least we're not financially ruined for spending hundreds of thousands of euros trying to build custom PowerPC HW, nor have we spent the crucial development resources on yet another miniscule platform.
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And why the PC has become so cheap now?
Due to circumstances that cannot be repeated in today's world. The market is way too saturated these days for any new small player to bring anything really new and revolutionary to to playground. Even if you tried you'd be ground to dust in seconds by the large megacorporations, or just bought out and the good parts being incorporated in their own products.
The best you can do is to try concentrate on the software and run in on someone else's HW. You can build a reasonable niche there, still.
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Short term Power Macs and Mac laptops.
It remains to be seen. Maybe something will come along or maybe not. One possibility is to migrate to other mainstream platforms. At least we're not financially ruined for spending hundreds of thousands of euros trying to build custom PowerPC HW, nor have we spent the crucial development resources on yet another miniscule platform.
Yes, I can definitely see the advantages of your approach.
If the X1000 does manage to built some momentum and shift a couple of thousand units, I wonder if you'd consider a port of MorphOS to it?
I am a "maybe" on the X1000, but if I do pick one up, I'd like the opportunity to try MorphOS on it too, and Trevor has stated he has no objections.
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@Franko
But again, not everyone buys your narrow definition of what an Amiga is. UAE is a marvellous way of maintaining an Amiga without having to deal with all the problems of 15 to 20 year old hardware. It's also capable of running an order of magnitude or more faster than any physical Amiga every made. There's never been a Steve Jobs to carry the vision forward. Throughout it's history it's been dragged through scandal, scam and dirty dealing in a manner that more resembles a soap opera than a computer history.
We live in 2010, almost 2011. It's fair to compare anything that we see that may carry the name Amiga in all or part of it's name to things that we can buy in 2010/11. I can go out, plunk down US$200 and get a 10 inch Android tablet that will emulate a Classic Amiga beautifully and has more power than a SAM.
I came into the Amiga 25 years ago because it was better than anything on the market and price comparable to MS Windows clones. It was cutting edge, bleeding edge really. That bleeding edge is no longer possible in the Amiga world, and likely never will be, so the only way to unify the desire for an Amiga and the desire to be on the bleeding edge is to run UAE on a high end Mac or PC....
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amiga.org is free for all, and I think you should really consult the "Site Information and Policies" link at the bottom of the page if you still don't get it. These forums are meant for discussion. If you don't like it, you can always leave and find some other forums that will ban free speech.
If you don't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
The original question asked by orb85750 was :-
'Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?'
orb85750:
I respect what they're doing with this machine, but I won't be buying one because I don't have that type of discretionary income. Who seriously plans to buy one soon after it's available? Anyone here?
It was not entitled what are Piru's biased views on everything else but this question...
Just expressing my own biased views on this 'free for all' and as yet 'free speech' site... :)
and to answer the question once again... maybe... :)
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I think AROS is the only real way forward, but I do have a keen interest in OS4.
In the end, I dont have the cash to splurge on it, but if I did, I'd probably get one.
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If the X1000 does manage to built some momentum and shift a couple of thousand units, I wonder if you'd consider a port of MorphOS to it?
No. Mostly because the platform is so obscure it would require tons of resources to get things running. The modern PPC Macs are quite similar to each other which makes things a lot easier.
Secondly most will have gotten the system for specific reason: To run OS4. Not many would be willing to pay over 100 eur for another OS.
Thirdly: Ben Hermans. You can't expect MorphOS developers to get involved with anything even remotely related to this person.
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The original question asked by orb85750 was :-
'Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?'
Well, if it still is unclear to anyone: No, I am not buying one of these things.
Besides I already have a dual 2.5GHz G5 system to play with. I paid 300 eur for it.
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Well, if it still is unclear to anyone: No, I am not buying one of these things.
Besides I already have a dual 2.5GHz G5 system to play with. I paid 300 eur for it.
I dont think anyone who has ever read any OS4 related thread on this forum was in any doubt mate ;)
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The original question asked by orb85750 was :-
'Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?'
It was not entitled what are Piru's biased views on everything else but this question...
From the responses so far, he has his answer, very very few on AO are planning to buy a A1X1K. No matter how much spin/hype or sunshine being blown where the sun don't shine is going to change the fact it's over priced and underwhelming capabilities. If the A1X1K is ever released to the public, I fully expect to see within 12 months smartphones with better benchmarks then the A1X1K.
We need today's and tomorrow's solutions now, not solutions from the 1990s.
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I myself haven`t invested yet in anything else than classic Amiga hardware. I have my old A500 and an beefed up A1200. So I`m craving for some new hardware to try Amiga OS on.
I could go the other way and buy myself a PowerMAC to run MorphOS on. But isn`t even that hardware getting itself old??
On the other hand AROS is nice. Nonetheless, I haven`t managed to run it without major problems on any of MY x86 systems I tested it on. So it`s not ready for prime time!!
So the dilemma is between an X1000 and a SAM 460. Which one I`ll buy? I would prefer the X1000, so my answer to this question is yes, finances sufficing!!
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From the responses so far, he has his answer, very very few on AO are planning to buy a A1X1K. No matter how much spin/hype or sunshine being blown where the sun don't shine is going to change the fact it's over priced and underwhelming capabilities. If the A1X1K is ever released to the public, I fully expect to see within 12 months smartphones with better benchmarks then the A1X1K.
We need today's and tomorrow's solutions now, not solutions from the 1990s.
There are no solutions and there likely wont ever be.
Every breed of it, morph, os4 and aros are playing catch up perpetually and they will never be able to match the amount of money, weight or mass thrown behind windows, linux and os x.
"amiga" is a hobby that occasionally strays into the realm of general computer use and I can't foresee anything changing that.
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I must say that the continued comparisons between Amiga and PC/Mac hardware based upon GHz and such like are not at all helpfull. I'm not going to try and convince anyone that a 700MHz PPC can out perform a 6 core super beast PC when raytracing and such but the clue is in the wording, PERFORM! It's not numbers of cycles that matter, it's how fast and well a computer gets the job done. If the job in question is picking up a few emails and the process is that of turning on the machine, collecting mail and turning it off again then one could argue that a SAM out performs many modern PCs as the job may well be complete on the SAM by the time the PC boots. Even on x86 based machines some tasks are no quicker now then fifteen years ago with a 486. It all depends on what you use the machine for, if 99% of that time is typing then the big speed up comes from improving the speed you type at does it not. This is also abou what resources that are available, windows eats cycles for breakfast leaving less available power then the numbers may suggest. Take all this into account and we see that hardware comparisons are not, by a long shot, the whole story.
Please note I'm not having a dig at anyone here but it's a fair point that needed a mention.
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AmigaOS4 is somewhere around late 90s in those areas. Not even close to what can be expected by average user these days. Workbench is outdated as hell and file exploration with it is quite awful, setting up file shares is extremely painful, there's no flash, browser situation is quite bleak (maybe NetSurf will come to rescue, OWB for OS4 is dead, Timberwolf is useless for any real world usage for now). Email clients are very basic and crude. Preferences are incoherent mess.
Come on. This is not fair and not true. OWB is getting updated every 2 month or so. And Timberwolf will arrive before X1000 hits the shelves. Workbench is a great file manager and neither mac nor PC offer anything better. You might be ignoring that most people on Windows use a norton commander clone? And Preferences are OK if you ignore the skinning and MUI-crap. Windows preferences however have no structure left at all in win7. AmigaOS4 doesn´t look outdated to me and I have been a Mac user for years.
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I must say that the continued comparisons between Amiga and PC/Mac hardware based upon GHz and such like are not at all helpfull. I'm not going to try and convince anyone that a 700MHz PPC can out perform a 6 core super beast PC when raytracing and such but the clue is in the wording, PERFORM! It's not numbers of cycles that matter, it's how fast and well a computer gets the job done. If the job in question is picking up a few emails and the process is that of turning on the machine, collecting mail and turning it off again then one could argue that a SAM out performs many modern PCs as the job may well be complete on the SAM by the time the PC boots. Even on x86 based machines some tasks are no quicker now then fifteen years ago with a 486. It all depends on what you use the machine for, if 99% of that time is typing then the big speed up comes from improving the speed you type at does it not. This is also abou what resources that are available, windows eats cycles for breakfast leaving less available power then the numbers may suggest. Take all this into account and we see that hardware comparisons are not, by a long shot, the whole story.
Please note I'm not having a dig at anyone here but it's a fair point that needed a mention.
I agree with what you say tripitaka.
However, Piru will come along and ask why you shut your machine down every time anyway. You can just use sleep/hibernate mode and it awakens in seconds.
Me, I'm old fashioned and do shut my windows boxes down every time, so what you describe is attractive to me, but it may not be attractive to others.
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@lsmart
I guess it falls down to taste then, but I think your input is indeed valid.
Personally I have no experience of preferences in OS4, but if it's anything like 3.1 then I will be happy.
Windows preferences are ok once you get used to them, but I hate the inconsistencies between the likes of XP and Vista. I also hate all the eye candy crap which just makes it harder to use for me.
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I bought this for what an X1000 will cost!
Maybe I should paint it like a boing ball.
Don´t ruin it! It is a great car. However that is precisely the point: You could have bought a more modern car where spare parts are easy to get, but you chose one that hit a soft spot.
The same kind of motivation will drive X1000 customers. There won´t be many.
MorphOS on Apple Computers may look cool to some. And I won´t talk them out of it. But I owned some Apple PPCs and I can say that I only miss one of them and thats is the original candy colored iMac - for cuteness only. And yes - that keyboard was crap.
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Windows preferences are ok once you get used to them.
Maybe it is partly my own fault that I have such a hard time. I was getting used to the classic windows list of controls and I haven´t jet figured out how to set Windows 7 to present the same categories. Right now I am always guessing whether to find the mouse speed under Printers & Stuff or Languages & Stuff ... there must be a setting to reverse that strange grouping.
Edit: Oh, It is actually easy .. just found the setting... thanks!
It always helps to talk to somebody.
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I bought this for what an X1000 will cost!
(http://jungle.net/tone/bug1.jpg)
Maybe I should paint it like a boing ball.
Wow! Tone, she's beautiful. Is that a '64??? O_O
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Wow! Tone, she's beautiful. Is that a '64??? O_O
It's a curved window sedan, which makes it a 73 or 74 Super Beetle.
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Come on. This is not fair and not true. OWB is getting updated every 2 month or so.
Didn't you get the memo? Joerg quit on OWB.
And Timberwolf will arrive before X1000 hits the shelves
Considering both Friedens are busy with OS4 itself I find that very hard to believe. Unless of course if X1000 release is postponed for a couple of years?
Workbench is a great file manager and neither mac nor PC offer anything better. You might be ignoring that most people on Windows use a norton commander clone?
That's just ridiculous. Workbench is stuck to WB2 era basically. Things have moved on elsewhere.
And Preferences are OK if you ignore the skinning and MUI-crap.
I disagree.
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Wow! Tone, she's beautiful. Is that a '64??? O_O
Yup, rounded windshield is a definite give away. Super Beetles are still pretty though.
Workbench is a great file manager and neither mac nor PC offer anything better. You might be ignoring that most people on Windows use a norton commander clone?
That just silly. Ambient and even Scalos are better than Workbench and I'm glad nothing under Windows even vaguely resembles Norton's software (the only Norton package I ever found useful was Ghost).
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However that is precisely the point: You could have bought a more modern car where spare parts are easy to get, but you chose one that hit a soft spot.
Actually, I picked the Beetle because it has a huge aftermarket and parts are quite easy (and inexpensive) to get. I liked my '64 Volvo way better, but parts were nonexistent. I love going off topic.
edit: and redrumloa is correct, of course, it's a 1973.
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if its going to cost north of 1500 then i am not going to buy an x1000 anytime soon...
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Of course NO.
Underpowered for a overprice hardware and one of the last attemps to get money from users with new hopes, using the 25th anniversary of a computing idea that has nothing to do with the "new" x1000, if anyone want to "celebrate" some anniversary an amiga dont need hundreds os cores o gigahertzs, the special thing on amiga is the chipset.
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Workbench is stuck to WB2 era basically. Things have moved on elsewhere
Where elsewhere exactly?
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Yup, rounded windshield is a definite give away. Super Beetles are still pretty though..
So, 6V system?
I remember messing around with a '67 that was all "prepared" for the new 12V, but with all parts still being 6V - it had a rather unique dynamo that looked like a 12V one but actually was a 6V one.
Btw - The pinnacle of desktop experiences for me has always been DOpus Magellan 5.82 - whatever happened to the OS4 port that was "promised", like 5 years ago or so?
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12v.
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Like so many others, unless the price drops to something truly competitive, I doubt I'll be buying one. I'll stick with my old "Classic" Amiga machines - The TI99/4A I landed, and the new Windows machines.
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Every breed of it, morph, os4 and aros are playing catch up perpetually and they will never be able to match the amount of money, weight or mass thrown behind windows, linux and os x.
or NetBSD, Haiku, RiscOS, MiNT, Plan9, OpenVMS, Inferno, VxWorks, Minix, Reactos, eCS, Symbian... the list is endless.
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So, 6V system?
I remember messing around with a '67 that was all "prepared" for the new 12V, but with all parts still being 6V - it had a rather unique dynamo that looked like a 12V one but actually was a 6V one.
Btw - The pinnacle of desktop experiences for me has always been DOpus Magellan 5.82 - whatever happened to the OS4 port that was "promised", like 5 years ago or so?
Yes, I remember my mother had a '65 with a 6V electrical system.
My personal favorite Beetle moment was buying a '70 from a friend's older brother and throwing a can of fix-a-flat in the back because the tires didn't look so good.
Driving home with the heat on, I couldn't figure out what the periodic ticking sound was. that is, until there was a loud explosion from the back and slimy rubbery sealant everywhere (as well as instant tinnitus on my part).
Never put a pressurized can of anything on the back seat floor of a Beetle! Hot air from the heating system caused the fix-a-flat can to explode (laid it flat from seam to seam). Man that stuff hard to get off of surfaces!
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Driving home with the heat on, I couldn't figure out what the periodic ticking sound was. that is, until there was a loud explosion from the back and slimy rubbery sealant everywhere (as well as instant tinnitus on my part).
The loud "PLING!" as the bottom of the container went from concave to convex didn't give you a hint? :lol:
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The loud "PLING!" as the bottom of the container went from concave to convex didn't give you a hint? :lol:
Yes, that was confusing, but it was the repeated ticking sounds that were really bugging me (the seam slowly giving way). Damn, I bought a lemon - blammo!
Not the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life, but one of the loudest.
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@slayer
And I haven't owned an Amiga since 1997 so will be interesting comeback for me.
That it will be, hope it works out for you. :banana:
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I bought this for what an X1000 will cost!
(http://jungle.net/tone/bug1.jpg)
Maybe I should paint it like a boing ball.
heh! Looks like a 1974 model... nice!
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Put an Apple sticker and everyone will say, "Oh that's why it's more expensive."
Regardless of price, I would have faith if they could just release it when they say they will. It won't happen though, a part time interest in the completion of these type of projects means that by the time it is released the technology has become bottom of the pack. Look at ARM going multicore. Next up is wireless USB.
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heh! Looks like a 1974 model... nice!
So tone007, you still have the vdub? I own 3 aircooled myself. 1960 Single Cab, 1967 Westy, and 1973 Thing. 8-)
Dragster, your in Mexico if I am not mistaken... you see all kinds of aircooled vws down there I bet.
tj
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Yup, I only bought it a couple of months ago. Weather is just getting nice enough to drive it around during the day comfortably.
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When you have been using the Amiga right from the start just like I & many here have, you do have the tendency too look back and say what if & if only.
However that in no way means that I don't support anyone who tries to bring us new Amiga related products. You have to take each thing as it comes and judge it on it's own merits.
I've looked at all the products that have been released since the true Amiga died, I can only say none of them were for me. I'm just hoping that the X1000 will prove to be the one I'm after.
I don't understand why some folk keep going on about things being too expensive, if it's your main hobby and you what your doing brings you enjoyment, then surely the cost doesn't matter...
There is no point in saying Yes or No right now to the X1000 as it's best to wait and see just what it can actually do, if it ever does get released. That's why I said maybe earlier. :)
l 100 % agree with you , whats the problem u either like and can afford it buy it
l buy one if l had the income not having job doesint help.
l waited for what seemed years to buy the blizzard ppc card bvsion got one as soon l chould not long after they came out .
the only new all ready built pc l ever brought was a new amiga 500 and a new 1200
so cost the 1200 and blizzard card whould be arround 4000 Nz with addons
and that was housed in hacked pc tower case
so to have new hardware with usb etc in own case nice....
the x1000 is the start l hope hell yes l buy one in split second cause l love amiga os 4.1
l heard al before they moaning groaning about the 500 + in the day then the 600
oh not going spend more money on hard drive l stick to me 1.3 floppy only 500 gezz
come on people the amiga 1000 was expensive in the day the 2000 was bloody expensive .
l spent 1800 nz on psx3 when first came out did l regret it no l loved my machine
even though had damm all decent games on release , l loved it for its home media use still do .
if you love amiga and being on amiga org l assume we do you have choice but dont wing moan about it gezzz
the man is building his machine not holding gun to your heads saying u must buy it.
l always brought the best option at the time if you pick second one down u end up spending more long run
so thats why x1000 is my pick of whats available l go for fastest cpu l can afford and or whats going
stay at the front for most amount time l for one feel thats the x1000 as its got new honestly something diffrent to
give xmos chip as l see it mean inovation that like they said hasint be around for long long time
so the ones bitching its low numbers thats the whole point dont you get it , it make low production runs of future
devices software more likey to be worth the risk
my mx5 is low production rates compared to alot cars doesint mean its pile of junk does it
all the best for the x1000 maybe there be x500 after it
A astin martin card is damm expesive doesint mean say people buy are crack pots
am sure when brought my MX5 people thought what loon its only got 2 seats if listened to everone u never do damm thing
l chould got another car same age for 1/4 the price so thats my choice am glad l did though best car for me
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And by the time you have your Aston Martin, I will have my turbocharged VW (a dirt cheap G5 Mac under MorphOS) and I will sill keep up with you (while spending a lot less). And of course the AROS users will be reminding the both of us that their machines are faster.
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no l be going 100 mphs sideways with smoke pouring of the tires like in top gear
actually to tell the truth l rather have vtr 1000 honda twin with two bothers racing
pipes oh yeah..... but thats what l mean its what exites you....... its not the numbers
its the x factor its being alive like mr clarkson says alot the worst car is the best car.
wonder what aros car is maybe souped up lada with racing pipe and bread bin on the bonnet
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Apple doesn't have anything that slow and certainly not that slow at that high a price. X1000 makes the Apple Store look like a discount store. A Mac Mini running at a higher speed is less the 30% of the X1000 price. Make it a laptop and the Mac Book is about 40% of the X1000 price...
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
Put an Apple sticker and everyone will say, "Oh that's why it's more expensive."
Regardless of price, I would have faith if they could just release it when they say they will. It won't happen though, a part time interest in the completion of these type of projects means that by the time it is released the technology has become bottom of the pack. Look at ARM going multicore. Next up is wireless USB.
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When the clock strikes the mid 1930's I've got to the point of struggling to find a car I like. You can burn down the highway as fast as you like but I would still be happier with a 1923 Cadillac tourer. Pure class.
As for the X1000, the only thing that's stopping me buying one is the lack of cash at this precise moment. My 25Mhz Blue lightning 486 cost me £1500 after all and I got that the same year I got my A1200, I loved them both. The A1200 I used everyday and my BL played doom faster than my mates DX2 66 (mostly due to the awesome cirrus logic daughter board).
When I consider the cash I've spent on computers in the past, Amigas, my blue lightning and my (at the time) high end dual 7900GT SLI rig I don't see the X1000 as hugely expensive. If I can find the cash I'll buy one, I'll just have to see how things go in 2011 I guess.
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It's a curved window sedan, which makes it a 73 or 74 Super Beetle.
Oh yeah. I now make out the vents behind the rear windows. Didn't see them before.
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no l be going 100 mphs sideways with smoke pouring of the tires like in top gear
actually to tell the truth l rather have vtr 1000 honda twin with two bothers racing
pipes oh yeah..... but thats what l mean its what exites you....... its not the numbers
its the x factor its being alive like mr clarkson says alot the worst car is the best car.
wonder what aros car is maybe souped up lada with racing pipe and bread bin on the bonnet
This is amusing, but guess what? I've actually got a US spec VFR750R (aka RC30) in my garage (no I'm not kidding).
I do like Honda's new V4 Sport-Tourer though.
Fast is fun, but efficient is better.
I actually like the X1000. I have had previous contact with the company that designed it (and admire their work).
But since the X1000 is overpriced (although considering the economies of its production's scale - its reasonable), I'll still take the Mac.
Actually, a Lada with a good stout Fiat 124 engine probably would move well. I have a lot of fond memories of the Fiat 124 Spyder.
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@Franko
But again, not everyone buys your narrow definition of what an Amiga is. UAE is a marvellous way of maintaining an Amiga without having to deal with all the problems of 15 to 20 year old hardware. It's also capable of running an order of magnitude or more faster than any physical Amiga every made. There's never been a Steve Jobs to carry the vision forward. Throughout it's history it's been dragged through scandal, scam and dirty dealing in a manner that more resembles a soap opera than a computer history.
We live in 2010, almost 2011. It's fair to compare anything that we see that may carry the name Amiga in all or part of it's name to things that we can buy in 2010/11. I can go out, plunk down US$200 and get a 10 inch Android tablet that will emulate a Classic Amiga beautifully and has more power than a SAM.
I came into the Amiga 25 years ago because it was better than anything on the market and price comparable to MS Windows clones. It was cutting edge, bleeding edge really. That bleeding edge is no longer possible in the Amiga world, and likely never will be, so the only way to unify the desire for an Amiga and the desire to be on the bleeding edge is to run UAE on a high end Mac or PC....
It's not just UAE performance on modern systems though, it's the fact that ppc macs and x86 pc's are *native* targets for modern "amiga" systems in MOS and AROS, so the value for money thing very much applies. It's not that Im anti OS4, given the money I'd like an OS4 system as well, but if it wasnt for the lightning fast amiga experience I get for a small amount of money from AROS, I'd probably be using MOS for my "NG" amiga system, as it represents the next best value for money. I can only assume (hope) that X1000 is aimed at the small numbers of OS4 users that want the best available platform for thier OS as there's just no market in a machine that while fast enough to give a nice experience for most day to day stuff, is still pretty underwhelming in comparison to what else is around for a fraction of the price. If OS4 stood out amongst the other "NG" amiga systems I'd possibly reconsider the X1000, but all 3 (aros/mos/os4) have a similar software base and for every advantage one has the others have thier own. Im just not willing to shell out that sort of money for a similar amiga experience I get elsewhere a lot cheaper. Each to htier own though.
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Each to htier own though.
Absolutely! I hope somebody buys X1000s (I'm just not selling the bike for one). And if you're leaning toward AOS and you can't afford an X1000, look at older hardware or consider an Acube motherboard,
I pray the developments team behind AOS4 and AROS continue to prosper.
I've never really found those markets a threat or even thought of them as competitors. Even if I use an MOS system, I want to wish these other Amiga users (and descendant systems) well. Software written for any Amiga system, old or next generation (regardless of variety) tends to get ported across all platforms and the more users we have the more successful our future will be.
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Isn't that a bit premature, considering the product isn't even out yet? Or what are you basing this "quality" association on?
I don't associate "quality" with AmigaONE, quite the opposite actually.
OK i'll rephrase that. Swap quality for pride. After watching trevor on youtube talking about the x1000 it's the first time i have considered buying an ng amiga. For me the sams and the pegasus were soulless but the x1000 clearly has emotion put into it so i want a part of it.
To this day when i touch my a500 i feel pride but when i bought my quad core 2 months ago i threw it on the table and switched it on and i didn't give a damn about it. It will be a relief to pick up an amiga again and feel pride.
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amen Kesa
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wow thats cool rc 30 vfr nice machines was at world superbike final here in nz
think was 88 forget know fred merkel won title on the honda after guy on bimota feel
of warm up lap on cold slicks
yeah wanted vrf 750 is my fav honda of all time yeah new one seems backwards step
l like light weight better handling myself
vfr 1200 looked yuk in pics but real life looks okay getting good reviews
honda know how to design good bikes like there philsopy u get that when u have
guy start biz like mr honda did .
also like truimph 675 daytona and the more street version.
yeah everone like good design
but for me see exon having someone with vision in company
alwys going beat corporation with people just there for the dollar
just my thoughts
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OK i'll rephrase that. Swap quality for pride. After watching trevor on youtube talking about the x1000 it's the first time i have considered buying an ng amiga. For me the sams and the pegasus were soulless but the x1000 clearly has emotion put into it so i want a part of it.
To this day when i touch my a500 i feel pride but when i bought my quad core 2 months ago i threw it on the table and switched it on and i didn't give a damn about it. It will be a relief to pick up an amiga again and feel pride.
That's the problem, I consider AmigaOnes series soulless. There is nothing attached to it but the lingering smell of arrogance.
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That's the problem, I consider AmigaOnes series soulless. There is nothing attached to it but the lingering smell of FAIL.
FTFY.
Seriously, how many A1's died due to their CPUs being fried thanks to bad power regulation on the board?
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Due to circumstances that cannot be repeated in today's world. The market is way too saturated these days for any new small player to bring anything really new and revolutionary to to playground. Even if you tried you'd be ground to dust in seconds by the large megacorporations, or just bought out and the good parts being incorporated in their own products.
The best you can do is to try concentrate on the software and run in on someone else's HW. You can build a reasonable niche there, still.
If that was true then the xbox360 would have a Quad Core Intel CPU and cost the same as a 2007 PC capable of running games @ 60FPS in 1920x1080...clearly they didn't and it doesn't
There is no substitute for genius design and clued up entrepreneurs fronting the cash.
Sure Commodore was a massive company in the mid 80s but Amiga was off the shelf tech bought in. Ditto if the makers of X1000 had a realistic business plan they only had to do 2 things.
1. Secure the services of IBM as an advisor on how to use the shit hot Xenon 3.2Ghz PPC compatible CPU
2. Hire some tech geniuses to understand roughly how the Xbox 360 motherboard works.
So in essence they would be doing what Commodore did, take a shit hot chipset and make a damned fine state of the art PC using those components that blew EVERYTHING out of the water in 1985/86.
This didn't happen, we got the luke warm X1000 idea, and it's doomed to sell a few thousand at best.
Now the real question is....is it fair to blame PC tech or Apple marketing here? No the simple fact is lack of intelligence = X1000 and not a $500 Xbox360 exceeding chipset on a motherboard that would have led to a computer selling possibly a million @ $500/£400.
It certainly is impossible to replicate the days of A1000, but is not impossible to replicate the days of Sega Megadrive/Genesis £200 vs A500 £450ish in 1988/89.
So I don't buy that X86 on OS4 was the only option (who's writing the millions of obscure drivers for every PC in the world?) and AROS IS AmigaOS on x86...support that one.
And I wouldn't want a Mac logo on a machine I run OS4 on so they better include a huge sticker to cover that shit if selling OS4 + PPC Mac in some future timeline.
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OK i'll rephrase that. Swap quality for pride. After watching trevor on youtube talking about the x1000 it's the first time i have considered buying an ng amiga. For me the sams and the pegasus were soulless but the x1000 clearly has emotion put into it so i want a part of it.
To this day when i touch my a500 i feel pride but when i bought my quad core 2 months ago i threw it on the table and switched it on and i didn't give a damn about it. It will be a relief to pick up an amiga again and feel pride.
That's nostalgia, nothing more. Stick an X1000 on a desk and a top of the range i7 (costing less) on the table and see what today's generation prefer....the machine that can play Call of Duty 4 or one that can run Final Writer 97 or some less than perfect web browser?
People don't care, X1000 gives them no reason to care (it costs more and does less than a PC) and Microsoft haters are rare in people buying their first PC nowadays.
You need to give people a reason to buy an X1000, either it must be superior to the alternative in every way to justify the price OR it must take design cues from something like the Xbox360 motherboard and from that $99 set of components build a machine that plays PS3/Xbox360 quality games @ 1080p AND cost half way between an actual Xbox360 and a PC capable of DX10 @ 1080p in 60FPS non-stop.
THIS is why A500 sold by the bucket load (and C64 too I guess) the x86 competition was too expensive* and the consoles were only consoles with expensive carts and no other abilities.
*(Yes you can buy some piece of shit for £400 now with gigs or ram and HD but they all come with crippled graphics and won't even run DX9 games at 720p with a kick up the ass, gaming rigs equalling 360/PS3 quality cost about 1000+ and without a monitor.....remember Win7 piece of shit needs a couple of Ghz to run alone let alone the same code as is being pushed through on the 360/PS3 code lol)
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If that was true then the xbox360 would have a Quad Core Intel CPU and cost the same as a 2007 PC capable of running games @ 60FPS in 1920x1080...clearly they didn't and it doesn't
Different market spaces.
Also you're ignoring the fact that the 360's cost is subsidised.
As to the rest... I'm fairly sure I've read this line before and others have explained to you why it isn't going to happen.
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OK i'll rephrase that. Swap quality for pride. After watching trevor on youtube talking about the x1000 it's the first time i have considered buying an ng amiga. For me the sams and the pegasus were soulless but the x1000 clearly has emotion put into it so i want a part of it.
To this day when i touch my a500 i feel pride but when i bought my quad core 2 months ago i threw it on the table and switched it on and i didn't give a damn about it. It will be a relief to pick up an amiga again and feel pride.
I think I get it. It doesn't matter what the actual product is, just the way it's presented. So if Trevor had been talking about your 2-month-old quad core, would you have felt pride about it then?
We have a LOT of people like Trevor here in Florida, particularly in South Florida. They usually target the elderly, infirm, and desperately lonely.
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If that was true then the xbox360 would have a Quad Core Intel CPU and cost the same as a 2007 PC capable of running games @ 60FPS in 1920x1080...clearly they didn't and it doesn't
Microsoft chose PowerPC because they could get full control of the chip (and for instance embed security features inside it... making it much harder to crack the console). That was not possible with intel or AMD. Original Xbox was cracked almost instantly and it meant major losses due to piracy.
There is no substitute for genius design and clued up entrepreneurs fronting the cash.
Sure Commodore was a massive company in the mid 80s but Amiga was off the shelf tech bought in. Ditto if the makers of X1000 had a realistic business plan they only had to do 2 things.
1. Secure the services of IBM as an advisor on how to use the shit hot Xenon 3.2Ghz PPC compatible CPU
2. Hire some tech geniuses to understand roughly how the Xbox 360 motherboard works.
So in essence they would be doing what Commodore did, take a shit hot chipset and make a damned fine state of the art PC using those components that blew EVERYTHING out of the water in 1985/86.
You're forgetting something: You can't just hack something like this (computer HW business introducing a new platform) up from our garage anymore. It takes capital, lots of it. Back in the day it was possible to (literally!) start your business from a garage... I argue that this isn't possible anymore.
How would you go on and sell this idea to VCs? New game console? New desktop? What would bring them the profits for their investment?
And btw, game consoles are cheap because they're sold at a loss. The income comes from the game sales.
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You're forgetting something: You can't just hack something like this up from our garage anymore. It takes capital, lots of it. Back in the day it was possible to (literally!) start your business from a garage... I argue that this isn't possible anymore.
100% wrong, I know of 3 folk personally, whom in the past 2 and a half years have started up their own business from a garage/home and who are continuing to go from strength to strength today.
It's all down to providing a service or product that enough people want. I have to admit that I was wrong with one of these people when she first told me her idea, I said that not enough folk would want that to make it viable. Well she proved me wrong and in less than 2 years she now employs 2 other people and is making a quite comfortable living from it.
Don't understand why you would believe Piru that such a feat is not possible in this day and age... :confused:
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100% wrong, I know of 3 folk personally, whom in the past 2 and a half years have started up their own business from a garage/home and who are continuing to go from strength to strength today.
It's all down to providing a service or product that enough people want. I have to admit that I was wrong with one of these people when she first told me her idea, I said that not enough folk would want that to make it viable. Well she proved me wrong and in less than 2 years she now employs 2 other people and is making a quite comfortable living from it.
Don't understand why you would believe Piru that such a feat is not possible in this day and age... :confused:
Uh. I obviously was talking in relation to computer HW business, specifically creating totally new platform. Say what Apple and other companies did in the silicon valley.
But sure, I'll edit the post to avoid any further confusion. Apparently it was somehow possible to misinterpret it.
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To this day when i touch my a500 i feel pride but when i bought my quad core 2 months ago i threw it on the table and switched it on and i didn't give a damn about it. It will be a relief to pick up an amiga again and feel pride.
I REALLY understand this: it happens to me as well...
I don't know if it comes from the object itself (I know, we're going out of "tangible reality"), from the experiences it gave me in the past (eg. nostalgia), or from both.
You can say whatever about this, but it's a matter of fact that something exists since we are talking about this! (the Amiga!) :)
Anyway at the moment I don't see/feel any special attraction regarding the X1000, exactly as for the AmigaONE.
The only thing is "uprising" me a bit is Natami, if only it will come to life (as MiniMig).
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Uh. I obviously was talking in relation to computer HW business, specifically creating totally new platform. Say what Apple and other companies did in the silicon valley.
But sure, I'll edit the post to avoid any further confusion. Apparently it was somehow possible to misinterpret it.
Point taken, but I would still say that such a feat could be possible today if the person has a good enough product and the willpower and capital to make a go of it. :)
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Microsoft chose PowerPC because they could get full control of the chip (and for instance embed security features inside it... making it much harder to crack the console). That was not possible with intel or AMD. Original Xbox was cracked almost instantly and it meant major losses due to piracy.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if M$ went ARM for their next generation XBox now M$ has licensed ARM technology. I'm sure Bing will see ARM servers, but there is no reason for M$ to stop at servers, why not portable Xbox and if so, why not the next generation XBox itself?
I see every possible perk for M$ to fully embrace their new technology on every level outside of desktops and that maybe a contract away. They have paid for it already, it's cheap, and they are in control.
Which is the exact opposite of A-EON/Hyperion's course set to epicfailville.
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I
We have a LOT of people like Trevor here in Florida, particularly in South Florida. They usually target the elderly, infirm, and desperately lonely.
Come on Jorkany, that is a little strong isn't it?
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Come on Jorkany, that is a little strong isn't it?
I guess we'll find out eventually. My opinion didn't start out that way but has shifted over the past few weeks. Mod if you wish, you know I won't complain.
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Selling overpriced stuff doesn't make you a fraud if the item does what it was promised to do.
Otherwise, Microsoft and Apple would have been out of business years ago mate.
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@Franko
But three people in a garage are not going to create the next Amiga, a world beating quantum leap in technology. Those days are gone. The cost of developing a new hardware system that truly advanced the state of the art would be beyond what anyone could afford. The '80s were a different time, they won't come again, at least not in computers.
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I guess we'll find out eventually. My opinion didn't start out that way but has shifted over the past few weeks.
I haven't seen anything, except he is making a product I am not interested in. AFAIK there is no history to suggest malfeasance.
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Neither of whom are selling a netbook spec'ed machine at 1500 quid....
Selling overpriced stuff doesn't make you a fraud if the item does what it was promised to do.
Otherwise, Microsoft and Apple would have been out of business years ago mate.
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Neither of whom are selling a netbook spec'ed machine at 1500 quid....
From the world english dictionary
1. deliberate deception, trickery, or cheating intended to gain an advantage
2. an act or instance of such deception
3. something false or spurious: his explanation was a fraud
4. informal a person who acts in a false or deceitful way
"selling something thats expensive" doesn't seem to be one of the definitions.
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From the world english dictionary
Oh I didn't realise this was deliberately obtuse day!
His comment was clearly in regard to Microsoft's and Apples product lists.
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Oh I didn't realise this was deliberately obtuse day!
His comment was clearly in regard to Microsoft's and Apples product lists.
This was understood.
However, claiming someone is a fraud for selling an expensive item is absurd, whether or not that item is overpriced.
Is the company trying to sell something that is not what was advertised ?
Then its a fraud.
Selling something you don't like or charging more money for it than you think is reasonable is not a fraud.
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@Franko
But three people in a garage are not going to create the next Amiga, a world beating quantum leap in technology. Those days are gone. The cost of developing a new hardware system that truly advanced the state of the art would be beyond what anyone could afford. The '80s were a different time, they won't come again, at least not in computers.
I still reckon anything is possible, if the idea is good enough and you have the willpower to see it through. :)
I may be getting on a bit, but all this defeatist talk and total disbelief in just what someone can achieve, only goes to show the almost total lack of self belief and defeatist attitude in folk today.
It's almost as if folk have resigned themselves to the belief that the little man can't do anything anymore without the backing of the multi nationals. It's a sad sorry world we live in if thats the attitude folk have today... :(
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I still reckon anything is possible, if the idea is good enough and you have the willpower to see it through. :)
I may be getting on a bit, but all this defeatist talk and total disbelief in just what someone can achieve, only goes to show the almost total lack of self belief and defeatist attitude in folk today.
It's almost as if folk have resigned themselves to the belief that the little man can't do anything anymore without the backing of the multi nationals. It's a sad sorry world we live in if thats the attitude folk have today... :(
Welcome to reality in 2010. The idea that the little guy that go 1 on 1 with a corp spending literally billions of dollars @ year on R&D is fantasy. Even C= didn't bother to bake up their own CPU, they used what was best for them and moved on to something they had to create. The world has changed since the 1980s, hardware is a fast changing commodity and the consumer has won out on buck:bang ratio. Whatever you dreamed of as a mega computer to own back in the 80s and 90s can probably come to reality in mobile phone that they sell down at the mall. If it's still not up to par, wait till this time next year, and it will be.
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Welcome to reality in 2010. The idea that the little guy that go 1 on 1 with a corp spending literally billions of dollars @ year on R&D is fantasy. Even C= didn't bother to bake up their own CPU, they used what was best for them and moved on to something they had to create. The world has changed since the 1980s, hardware is a fast changing commodity and the consumer has won out on buck:bang ratio. Whatever you dreamed of as a mega computer to own back in the 80s and 90s can probably come to reality in mobile phone that they sell down at the mall. If it's still not up to par, wait till this time next year, and it will be.
Reality for you maybe, but I unlike the majority have no need for a mobile phone or an all singing all dancing super duper PC or Mac. I did ask folk for advice in a recent thread for advice on buying my first ever PC and thank you to all who responded with lots of helpful and useful advice.
However having spent a couple of days this week trailing around the shops I can now safely say that the 2 grand I was willing to spend shall be staying in my pocket. The simple reason being nothing I saw impressed me in the slightest. I thought that their may have been something out there that would have at least given me something of the same feeling that I had when I purchased my very first A1000 or C64, but no, all I was left with was the feeling that all they wanted to do was sell me a piece of kit that was for nothing more than browsing the internet.
Oh and they try to convince you that you need to take out an extended warranty for a few hundred quid, if these machines are so unreliable that you need to be covered by said warranty in the first 3 years then they must be absolute crap to start with.
Me, I'm now even more happy in the knowledge that as long as I can keep my original Amiga hardware going, as it does all the computing requirements that I have and will ever need from a computer then I am more than satisfied. I have managed quite happily since my very first Vic20 to live without the need for speed, the internet and all the other pointless things (in my honest opinion) that todays typical home computing user seems to think are necessary.
I grant you that to most folk my opinions and views may be stuck in the past, but I have never been one to purchase something just to be trendy or because it's cool to own one. When my years broadband subscription runs out and if I haven't got one of my miggys online by then then I shall happily go back to living without the net.
Heck, I won't even by a flatscreen TV as they still haven't solved the problem of motion blur yet, what's the point in having a TV that looks good in the corner of you living room when the picture quality is naff, and before you say it not even the latest 600Hz TVs are without motion blur. Just another thing I pointed out when viewing the latest TVs along with PCs to the sales people in the shops. Yes they thought I was quite mad, but that's because to them it's not about the quality of the thing, it's all about how it looks and how it's cool to own one and how can you live without such things, my response to them was... Quite happily thank you... :)
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When my years broadband subscription runs out and if I haven't got one of my miggys online by then then I shall happily go back to living without the net.
However will you make it without your adult chats!?
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@tone007
Got banned from that site for pointing out that god doesn't exist and showing the members that what they said on that site was not private and could easily be googled... :(
Strange topics I know for an adult dating/chat site, but then the net is a very strange place full of some very strange peeps... :)
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Welcome to reality in 2010. The idea that the little guy that go 1 on 1 with a corp spending literally billions of dollars @ year on R&D is fantasy. Even C= didn't bother to bake up their own CPU, they used what was best for them and moved on to something they had to create. The world has changed since the 1980s, hardware is a fast changing commodity and the consumer has won out on buck:bang ratio. Whatever you dreamed of as a mega computer to own back in the 80s and 90s can probably come to reality in mobile phone that they sell down at the mall. If it's still not up to par, wait till this time next year, and it will be.
Just my two cents.
Interesting, I was not aware billion dollar Corps were competing in the Amiga Arena. I do know most New gadgets and Ideas are created by the "little Guy" as you call them. They may sell there ideas to Corporations or start partnerships to bring them to market. Look at Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Dell, Gateway, Ebay, and craigslist. They were all little guys at one time.
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The warranty shops offer is usually a rip off.
If your computer makes it past the first 3 months, it'll probably make it 5 years easy.
THats of course if you saved the receipt, original box etc etc, or they'll probably refuse to fix it anyways, unless you cough up more cash.
Oh and they try to convince you that you need to take out an extended warranty for a few hundred quid, if these machines are so unreliable that you need to be covered by said warranty in the first 3 years then they must be absolute crap to start with.
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Point taken, but I would still say that such a feat could be possible today if the person has a good enough product and the willpower and capital to make a go of it. :)
With so much dow, why set it up in a garage? :)
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I still reckon anything is possible, if the idea is good enough and you have the willpower to see it through. :)
I may be getting on a bit, but all this defeatist talk and total disbelief in just what someone can achieve, only goes to show the almost total lack of self belief and defeatist attitude in folk today.
It's almost as if folk have resigned themselves to the belief that the little man can't do anything anymore without the backing of the multi nationals. It's a sad sorry world we live in if thats the attitude folk have today... :(
I still remember the thread Dennis van Weeren announced his minimig in. Full of disbelievers and downright rude individuals and neg-heads.
If you're interested franko the link is here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19361
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I thought that their may have been something out there that would have at least given me something of the same feeling that I had when I purchased my very first A1000 or C64, but no, all I was left with was the feeling that all they wanted to do was sell me a piece of kit that was for nothing more than browsing the internet.
I'm sorry, but the "2 grand" you would have spent on a machine now, is *VASTLY* superior to "what you had when you purchased your very first A1000 or C64".
This is the *ENTIRE* problem with the Amiga Scene now. You're trapped in this fantasy world that someone, some tiny, obscure company consisting of less than a dozen employees is going to create the "new" Amiga that will take over the world, when IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Eventually all our miggies won't be able to cut it when it comes to "computing". Facts of live. The Amiga is getting left behind in the dust and people, like yourself, like Hyperion, who insist that going against the "modern computing" direction is the right one, are the reason Amiga users are ridiculed and considered "fanatics".
Delusional..... :roflmao:
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Reality for you maybe, but I unlike the majority have no need for a mobile phone or an all singing all dancing super duper PC or Mac. I did ask folk for advice in a recent thread for advice on buying my first ever PC and thank you to all who responded with lots of helpful and useful advice.
However having spent a couple of days this week trailing around the shops I can now safely say that the 2 grand I was willing to spend shall be staying in my pocket.
Two grand, for a desktop? Most I have ever spent was $768 and that was for a dual core (nVidia gfx) laptop. Unless your VAT is ungodly high, there isn't much of a reason to spend much more then $600 for a machine that should be impressive in performance.
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I still remember the thread Dennis van Weeren announced his minimig in. Full of disbelievers and downright rude individuals and neg-heads.
If you're interested franko the link is here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19361
A first time poster announces something that defeated dev giants of the community past...
Given the sheer number of scams and vapour projects this community has been subject to over the past decade, the reaction he received is perfectly understandable. Indeed it was in part due to this that the dev took the decision to announce it only when it was ready to roll.
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Two grand, for a desktop? Most I have ever spent was $768 and that was for a dual core (nVidia gfx) laptop. Unless your VAT is ungodly high, there isn't much of a reason to spend much more then $600 for a machine that should be impressive in performance.
As was pointed out by many when this thing was first announced, two grand plants you firmly into professional workstation or hardcore gamer territory. So you're up against two way 8 core systems with ram into the double figures, RAID or SSDs and top of the line graphics cards, probably in SLI.
Suddenly, a dualcore PPC motherboard seems woefully underpowered compared to the competition.
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Just my two cents.
Interesting, I was not aware billion dollar Corps were competing in the Amiga Arena. I do know most New gadgets and Ideas are created by the "little Guy" as you call them.
What is this Amiga Arena that your talking about? Lets look at all three Amiga-like OSs, AROS, MOS, and OS4. All three use atleast AMD gfx driver's and some use drivers for nVidia and Intel. You got a garage company that can roll out GFX cores that are above what the three above gfx chip guys are producing currently? I'm all ears about that one. Lets talk about CPUs with Intel, AMD plus IBM and Motorola, what garage company is cranking out CPUs that are next generation compared to what their current generations are? Again, I'm all ears about that as well.
My point is that no garage company is going to be able to pull ahead of what those giants are spending on yearly R&D budgets.
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People were creating computer companies out of the garage in the late 70's 80's because home computing was "new" then. It's too far gone now to do it. desktop computers are in the decline now in favor of smartphones and cloud computing.
The people starting companies out of they're garage these days are building transporters & holodecks!!!! ;)
What is this Amiga Arena that your talking about? Lets look at all three Amiga-like OSs, AROS, MOS, and OS4. All three use atleast AMD gfx driver's and some use drivers for nVidia and Intel. You got a garage company that can roll out GFX cores that are above what the three above gfx chip guys are producing currently? I'm all ears about that one. Lets talk about CPUs with Intel, AMD plus IBM and Motorola, what garage company is cranking out CPUs that are next generation compared to what their current generations are? Again, I'm all ears about that as well.
My point is that no garage company is going to be able to pull ahead of what those giants are spending on yearly R&D budgets.
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As was pointed out by many when this thing was first announced, two grand plants you firmly into professional workstation or hardcore gamer territory. So you're up against two way 8 core systems with ram into the double figures, RAID or SSDs and top of the line graphics cards, probably in SLI.
Suddenly, a dualcore PPC motherboard seems woefully underpowered compared to the competition.
It's unlikely to be only $2K USD. Looking at what the Beta mobo owners are going to be paying for mobo and RAM, and with a discount, one could see the final retail version of the A1X1K hitting around $3K USD.
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It's unlikely to be only $2K USD. Looking at what the Beta mobo owners are going to be paying for mobo and RAM, and with a discount, one could see the final retail version of the A1X1K hitting around $3K USD.
Hmm, throw in a decent pair of 21ins monitors and a good quality set of 7.1 surround sound speakers into the mix as well then.
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What is this Amiga Arena that your talking about? Lets look at all three Amiga-like OSs, AROS, MOS, and OS4. All three use atleast AMD gfx driver's and some use drivers for nVidia and Intel. You got a garage company that can roll out GFX cores that are above what the three above gfx chip guys are producing currently? I'm all ears about that one. Lets talk about CPUs with Intel, AMD plus IBM and Motorola, what garage company is cranking out CPUs that are next generation compared to what their current generations are? Again, I'm all ears about that as well.
My point is that no garage company is going to be able to pull ahead of what those giants are spending on yearly R&D budgets.
Ok, good point on GFX chips although that was not the point of the discussion I responded to. But most all companies manufacturing pc boards and systems use chips that are available to anyone. My observation was to your point regarding Amiga related hardware specifically X1000 and software which was being discussed. Nvidia, ATI, and Intel are not competing for amiga market share, but anyone can surely buy and use their chips and video boards. Drivers are created by individuals. So yes, in the Amiga world the "Little guy can compete".
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@Ajlwalker
I still remember the thread Dennis van Weeren announced his minimig in. Full of disbelievers and downright rude individuals and neg-heads.
If you're interested franko the link is here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19361
Thanks for pointing that thread out to me, most interesting that certain folk who were posting positive views back then, are now contradicting themselves here & now by saying it can't be done anymore as this is no longer the 80s, it's the old glass half empty mentality rearing it's ugly head once again. :)
@Methuselas
I'm sorry, but the "2 grand" you would have spent on a machine now, is *VASTLY* superior to "what you had when you purchased your very first A1000 or C64".
This is the *ENTIRE* problem with the Amiga Scene now. You're trapped in this fantasy world that someone, some tiny, obscure company consisting of less than a dozen employees is going to create the "new" Amiga that will take over the world, when IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Eventually all our miggies won't be able to cut it when it comes to "computing". Facts of live. The Amiga is getting left behind in the dust and people, like yourself, like Hyperion, who insist that going against the "modern computing" direction is the right one, are the reason Amiga users are ridiculed and considered "fanatics".
Dunno what your havering about, I never mentioned anything about looking for a vastly superior machine. I have already said elsewhere on this forum that I don't expect anyone ever to release a new Amiga that would rival the power of todays modern systems. As for your incredibly stupid comment that 'all our miggies wont be able to cut it when it comes to computing', what a load of utter gobshite you speak.
I have said before and I'll say it again for someone like you who obviously can't understand simple english, I am more than happy to use the Amiga for ALL my computing needs and will continue to do so, for as long as I have the money to keep them going and am able to buy parts/replacements to do me the rest of my lifetime, understand now, numpty... :rolleyes:
PS: Apart from the spelling mistake in your 'Facts of live' ! bit, if you believe that what you say is a 'Fact of life', then you a total dunderheid as well... :biglaugh:
@dammy
Two grand, for a desktop? Most I have ever spent was $768 and that was for a dual core (nVidia gfx) laptop. Unless your VAT is ungodly high, there isn't much of a reason to spend much more then $600 for a machine that should be impressive in performance.
Not being that much interested in PCs or Macs (even more so now), I didn't have any idea what it would cost to buy a decent set up. I would have been quite happy to spend 2 grand or more on such a set up as money doesn't mean that much to me, but unfortunately nothing I saw or was shown impressed me enough to part with the cash. I've came to the conclusion that I'm happier to spend the money on keeping my Amiga's going. :)
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a good quality set of 7.1 surround sound speakers into the mix as well then.
Surround? Why? :)
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most interesting that certain folk who were posting positive views back then, are now contradicting themselves here & now by saying it can't be done anymore
Huh - what?
Normally that thread is used for the exact opposite argument, good to see that your view is more accurate, allthough your conclusion is rather whack - note that the people who were positive back then _were right_, and the same people are now also most likely _right_. Why? Perhaps because they're not clueless gullible lunatics? :lol:
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Huh - what?
Normally that thread is used for the exact opposite argument, good to see that your view is more accurate, allthough your conclusion is rather whack - note that the people who were positive back then _were right_, and the same people are now also most likely _right_. Why? Perhaps because they're not clueless gullible lunatics? :lol:
It's all a matter of opinion, and I've spotted quite a few lunatics on this site... :)
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Dragster, your in Mexico if I am not mistaken... you see all kinds of aircooled vws down there I bet.
tj
That's right. Yeah, I've seen some.
Cheers,
Dragster
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A first time poster announces something that defeated dev giants of the community past...
Given the sheer number of scams and vapour projects this community has been subject to over the past decade, the reaction he received is perfectly understandable. Indeed it was in part due to this that the dev took the decision to announce it only when it was ready to roll.
Yes he was a first time poster. But reading his post he said he had uploaded photos that hadn't shown yet. So the prudent thing to do would have been to wait and see the evidence before shitting all over it.
And can you not see the irony that we have people here saying things can't be done, and then here comes one genius that ACHIEVED (not announced) "something that defeated dev giants"?
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Of course, didn't original Amiga developers burn through 7 million 1980's USD developing the Amiga? That's probably about $20m in today's money.
Have the Natami team burned through $20m developing their superAGA and 68k replacement and all their other work? I highly doubt it. Sure the Natami may never see the light of day, but assuming it does. It shows what could be achieved.
I wonder what the development costs have been for the X1000? I bet it's only in the tens of thousands.
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Surround? Why? :)
Why not? :)
Might as well get all the bells and whistles if you're going to plunk down that kinda cash. :)
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Yes he was a first time poster. But reading his post he said he had uploaded photos that hadn't shown yet. So the prudent thing to do would have been to wait and see the evidence before shitting all over it.
Prudent? Heh, no.
Unless you can provide evidence to back up your claims, you're lying. It is that simple. Anything else leaves you open to being scammed.
If the community as a whole had taken on board the above, chances are a good few scams, including those perpetrated by Amiga.Inc themselves would have been squelched before they hurt anyone.
And can you not see the irony that we have people here saying things can't be done,
Err, it would be if they said that in the thread. There was never any question of OCS or even AGA being possible to reimplement within an FPGA, the contention was if it had been done.
Likewise no one has said that the X1000 is impossible, just that it's retarded.
and then here comes one genius that ACHIEVED (not announced) "something that defeated dev giants"?
Dennis's work is a minor miracle and tbh offers one of the very few bright spots this community has seen in ten years. It achieved this by being practical, cost effective and by being realistic in terms of the market it was aiming for - IE it wasn't trying to take over the world.
X1000... It's a solution looking for a problem, it's too expensive realistically for the hobbyist set, too under powered as a workstation and given the state of OS4, may never be fully supported.
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Of course, didn't original Amiga developers burn through 7 million 1980's USD developing the Amiga? That's probably about $20m in today's money.
Have the Natami team burned through $20m developing their superAGA and 68k replacement and all their other work? I highly doubt it. Sure the Natami may never see the light of day, but assuming it does. It shows what could be achieved.
I wonder what the development costs have been for the X1000? I bet it's only in the tens of thousands.
I seem to remember him mentioning £200,000 so far spent on the X1000 in one of the videos floating around. One of the reasons it's so expensive.
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Hi,
@dougal,
You do not belong at Amiga.org, this board is only for insane people wanting to use old hardware to run only OS's. We know your type, you want to run a new computer with the latest hardware then go back to Microsoft, and don't come back, we don't like people like you who want to change things.
smerf
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Ok, good point on GFX chips although that was not the point of the discussion I responded to. But most all companies manufacturing pc boards and systems use chips that are available to anyone. My observation was to your point regarding Amiga related hardware specifically X1000 and software which was being discussed. Nvidia, ATI, and Intel are not competing for amiga market share, but anyone can surely buy and use their chips and video boards. Drivers are created by individuals. So yes, in the Amiga world the "Little guy can compete".
Oh, you mean the AmigaOne market? Sure, you can have a garage company slug it out with ACube and A-EON for a couple of dozen sales, I suppose. Why anyone would bother to do that type of investment for a couple of dozen sales is beyond me.
Back in the real world, it's just not worth it less your able to sell tens of thousands of units, like how C= USA is planning. Even then, it's off the shelf parts because it's too expensive unless your looking at multi million unit sales.
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As for your incredibly stupid comment that 'all our miggies wont be able to cut it when it comes to computing', what a load of utter gobshite you speak.
I use Maya, ZBrush, Flash, Illustrator, Photoshop, Painter and After Effects, just to name a few, on an almost daily basis. Name *ONE* Amiga, even the Next Gen's, that can do that. Gobshite......... I wasn't aware that Gobshite = Delusional.
I have said before and I'll say it again for someone like you who obviously can't understand simple english, I am more than happy to use the Amiga for ALL my computing needs and will continue to do so, for as long as I have the money to keep them going and am able to buy parts/replacements to do me the rest of my lifetime, understand now, numpty... :rolleyes:
By all means, use your Amiga for "ALL my (your) computing needs", but not all of us are able to do that. That's not our fault. We didn't make Commodore or the like go bankrupt.
I'm going to quote you verbatim, in toto here:
"However having spent a couple of days this week trailing around the shops I can now safely say that the 2 grand I was willing to spend shall be staying in my pocket. The simple reason being nothing I saw impressed me in the slightest."
Yes, you weren't impressed, 'cos there's nothing out there that's more impressive than 4096 colors, 4-channel stereo, 32 instruments, 8 sprites, a blitter and a male and female voice. :roll: An IPHONE has more "computing capability" than a decked out A4000, with a PPC card, BVision, etc *AND* it's smaller, not to mention cheaper.
PS: Apart from the spelling mistake in your 'Facts of live' ! bit, if you believe that what you say is a 'Fact of life', then you a total dunderheid as well... :biglaugh:
It's called a typo, Moron. I've been around here a *LONG* time and most of my friends on here, well, we don't care about typos and certainly don't use that as a "slam" against someone, trying to infer intellectual superiority. Wow..... I'm so hurt......you got me. Gee, I don't know what to do.
And since you're so up on "common grammatical errors", English, since it's a language, should be capitalized. Also, that should read "....if you believe that what you say is a "fact of life" (you use quotations here) then you're a total dunderheid as well..."
Not being that much interested in PCs or Macs (even more so now), I didn't have any idea what it would cost to buy a decent set up.
I can build a greater product with less than a grand, that would run circles around your *BEST* Amiga and it *STILL* runs all the same Amiga software you do, faster and more efficient, through emulation.
Zealot Trolls.......
Gotta love 'em.
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Why not? :)
Might as well get all the bells and whistles if you're going to plunk down that kinda cash. :)
Ah, and what does yet another piece of unsupported hardware matter anyways - you're right :)
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Ah, and what does yet another piece of unsupported hardware matter anyways - you're right :)
Actually I was thinking more along the lines of what I could get for 2-3k instead of the X1000 - The reason I threw in the monitors and speakers was because Dammy upped my budget from 2k to 3k... But now that you mention it... Yeah what you're saying works too :lol:
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Actually I was thinking more along the lines of what I could get for 2-3k instead of the X1000
For example this: http://store.apple.com/us/... (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC560LL/A?mco=MTg2OTUwMjQ)
It certainly has more horsepower than the X1000 but it probably won´t run UAE any better than your other PC.
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For example this: http://store.apple.com/us/... (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC560LL/A?mco=MTg2OTUwMjQ)
It certainly has more horsepower than the X1000 but it probably won´t run UAE any better than your other PC.
Since UAE can only use one core, it will depend on the speed of the individual cores for UAE's speed. The good thing is, we hit the minimum core speed to run OCS/ECS/AGA Amiga games awhile ago. Lets face reality, if your not using UAE for games, there isn't a whole lot of Amiga 68K apps that require heavy CPU usage.
Since most Amiga folks don't mind building their own system (be it x86 or PPC) let look at what we can build ourselves. You can buy a AMD six core plus mobo for under $400. Next year who knows how much CPU power (plus mobo) that same $400 will buy. Problem is for AROS/MOS/OS4 is that the SMP horse (x86_64 and ARM) left the barn years ago and isn't coming back. AROS at least runs on x86_64 but can't be SMP while OS4 wants to be AMP, it's on PPC and AMP will never be SMP without a massive rewrite. OS4 rewrite for SMP is highly unlikely to ever see the light of day. Basically we, the Amiga Community, are screwed for not being creative enough to adjust to the ever changing environment with rigid 3.1 API dogma. Shame really, we use to have pride on what our beloved OS could do that Windows/MacOS couldn't do at the time. Now the tables have turned and there is no way out for 10+ years of near sighted mistakes.
And people expect to sell a ~$3K USD system that is in danger of being eclipsed by smartphones and is unlikely to ever fully be used by OS4, in these economic times? Yeah, right.
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Nope I would rather invest in an FPGA Arcade, or a Natami than an Amiga X1000. I still have a classic Amiga 1200, just purchased (another) cd32 and have Amiga Forever 2010 on my PC. What more could I want?
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A quad core Mac Pro is *exactly* two grand in the Apple Store...
Configure your Mac Pro (http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MC560B/A?mco=MTg2OTUwMjE)
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NO the X1000 is not value for money. Also i would rather buy the FPGA Arcade and Natami when they are released.
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I use Maya, ZBrush, Flash, Illustrator, Photoshop, Painter and After Effects, just to name a few, on an almost daily basis. Name *ONE* Amiga, even the Next Gen's, that can do that. Gobshite......... I wasn't aware that Gobshite = Delusional.
Why on earth would I care to even attempt to name one Amiga that can run those programs, I know now that your not the sharpest knife in the drawer but why you want me to answer such a silly question beggars belief. I also wasn't aware that gobshite = delusional, so why your even attempting to compare the two, is just a waste of your two brain cells rubbing together.
By all means, use your Amiga for "ALL my (your) computing needs", but not all of us are able to do that. That's not our fault. We didn't make Commodore or the like go bankrupt.
So someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use a computer, and it's all Commodores fault !, Gawd, give me strength...
I'm going to quote you verbatim, in toto here:
"However having spent a couple of days this week trailing around the shops I can now safely say that the 2 grand I was willing to spend shall be staying in my pocket. The simple reason being nothing I saw impressed me in the slightest."
Yes, you weren't impressed, 'cos there's nothing out there that's more impressive than 4096 colors, 4-channel stereo, 32 instruments, 8 sprites, a blitter and a male and female voice. :roll: An IPHONE has more "computing capability" than a decked out A4000, with a PPC card, BVision, etc *AND* it's smaller, not to mention cheaper.
Wow I see the light now, I'll just nip out and buy an IPHONE, hook it up to a monitor add a keyboard some hard disks a Gfx card, USB ports, better CPU, floppy drive, CD/DVD writer, a joystick and a mouse and bobs your uncle I've got the perfect machine to beat an A4000...
What the f**k are you on, does the institution know you've escaped...
It's called a typo, Moron. I've been around here a *LONG* time and most of my friends on here, well, we don't care about typos and certainly don't use that as a "slam" against someone, trying to infer intellectual superiority. Wow..... I'm so hurt......you got me. Gee, I don't know what to do.
And since you're so up on "common grammatical errors", English, since it's a language, should be capitalized. Also, that should read "....if you believe that what you say is a "fact of life" (you use quotations here) then you're a total dunderheid as well..."
Wow, you've been around here a *LONG* time, well my Dad's bigger than your Dad... Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah. (just showing off my intellectual superiority again )
I can build a greater product with less than a grand, that would run circles around your *BEST* Amiga and it *STILL* runs all the same Amiga software you do, faster and more efficient, through emulation.
Who cares what you can build for less than a grand, I sure as hell don't. I'll put it as simply as I can for your simple little mind to understand once again, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU CAN DO, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY USING MY AMIGA, now if you can't understand that then, go bile yer heid ya diddy ye... :)
Just to keep the thread on topic, the answer is still maybe...
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This thread is descending into a nasty flame fest. Everyone, please be polite or this thread will be closed.
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(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh21/madtabby66/Online/ObviousTroll.jpg)
Seriously, enough now.
To everyone else.
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/filephp2file10988filenametroll-web.jpg)
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@the_leander
You seem to have a thing about trolls, could it be that you've still got that pathetic little goatee beard that when you turn your head upside down reminds you of your little troll picture... :)
(don't remember me do you, fat boy... :biglaugh:)
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Franko, Take your meds!
Seriously, step away from the computer, take a day off, and chill.
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Ok, point taken, I was just replying to comments made directly at myself. gonna pop some pills now and chill... :)
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And by the time you have your Aston Martin, I will have my turbocharged VW (a dirt cheap G5 Mac under MorphOS) and I will sill keep up with you (while spending a lot less). And of course the AROS users will be reminding the both of us that their machines are faster.
Sorry, but the Aston Martin is cooler!
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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
Nope, but I'm glad someone is willing to try to produce hardware for those that want it.
For me hardware is no longer relevant, UAE and AROS all the way.
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This thread is descending into a nasty flame fest. Everyone, please be polite or this thread will be closed.
Gotta love the new Ignore List feature. :lol: Sadly, the trolling has become a bit vapid as of late.....
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The trolls are comming for you
http://www.youtube.com/user/trolljegeren
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@franko
Dont take it seriously but... registered in july 2010 and more than 600 post, you need holidays.
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@franko
Dont take it seriously but... registered in july 2010 and more than 600 post, you need holidays.
Me take something seriously... never :)
Being new to the whole interweb-net-thingy, plus being retired & an insomniac, then I find this whole online stuff quite fascinating & interesting, It also helps pass the time of which I have plenty. :)
As for a holiday, the last one I had was in 82, when I went to the local pub only to find myself waking up on board a ferry somewhere in the Irish sea on my way to the Isle of Man. Got stuck there for a fortnight, but it was a good little holiday though... :)
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@franko
Dont take it seriously but... registered in july 2010 and more than 600 post, you need holidays.
He didn't get the "activity award" for nothing, you know :lol:
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It's called a typo, Moron. I've been around here a *LONG* time and most of my friends on here, well, we don't care about typos and certainly don't use that as a "slam" against someone, trying to infer intellectual superiority. Wow..... I'm so hurt......you got me. Gee, I don't know what to do.
Hey, "Moron", you actually do it too. You even used it against me a couple months ago... So you're just blatantly lying here.
Let's take this post of yours to refresh your memory:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=566337&postcount=158
(I guess i'm on his ignore list, but whatever)
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Now all of you, lay off Franko.
Where else am I going to learn such useful phrases? "Gobshite", ah man I love that one.
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Now all of you, lay off Franko.
Where else am I going to learn such useful phrases? "Gobshite", ah man I love that one.
Never heard it before? Man, I thought it was fairly common vernacular. For a perfect example usage:
[youtube]9R89oERKCaU[/youtube]
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Oi, rats no fer, ah goat an infraction stuck oan ma bloody profile fur usin rat wurd, noo it's been bandied aboot lik naybuddys bizness... :(
no fair, ah'm tellin ma waw oan ye's... :cry:
(Subtitles Available On BBC Scotland...)
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Oi, rats no fer, ah goat an infraction stuck oan ma bloody profile fur usin rat wurd, noo it's been bandied aboot lik naybuddys bizness... :(
no fair, ah'm tellin ma waw oan ye's... :cry:
It would be weird if you weren't scottish...
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Microsoft chose PowerPC because they could get full control of the chip (and for instance embed security features inside it... making it much harder to crack the console). That was not possible with intel or AMD. Original Xbox was cracked almost instantly and it meant major losses due to piracy.
You're forgetting something: You can't just hack something like this (computer HW business introducing a new platform) up from our garage anymore. It takes capital, lots of it. Back in the day it was possible to (literally!) start your business from a garage... I argue that this isn't possible anymore.
How would you go on and sell this idea to VCs? New game console? New desktop? What would bring them the profits for their investment?
And btw, game consoles are cheap because they're sold at a loss. The income comes from the game sales.
Microsoft went to IBM and asked for a CPU within a price range with a minimum performance that's all, which they decided they could provide thanks to CELL processor development work.
This was all confirmed from a contact who deals directly with Microsoft on a daily basis and specifically Xbox360 for licensing things like the visualizer and his 2 games released as full price titles I believe him wholeheartedly when he explains Microsoft went to IBM and IBM used half the research into CELL already subsidised by Sony/Toshiba to create Xenon. This is not based on Wikipedia bollox.
Xenon is 100% owned by IBM due to complaints and legal threats from Sony/Toshiba too.
So you have a situation exactly the same as in 1988 with Amiga A500 vs Sega Genesis/Megadrive. Both machines use the same CPU, and not some crap like the 65816 from WDC like in the pathetically slow SNES, and one costs 2.5x more than the other. The Megadrive was subsidised with £50 games too. The 360 motherboard may well be subsidised but it is still a cheap nasty device which is why it is $200 console not $450 like PS3. Even without subsidy the motherboard essentials are still going to come in at under $250...clearly a massive improvement on $1200 for a GPU devoid weird G5 based mobo used by x1000
The more things change the more they stay the same, my comment was merely if someone was serious about creating a true next gen OS4 platform then the only viable option is to use the 3.2Ghz Xenon CPU and to 'investigate' how Microsoft harness the power, the full price of which is still under $250 which is significantly cheaper than i7 solutions in x86-64 world. Creating the GLUE logic to make an ATI GPU and Xenon and RAM work is not costly or difficult and like I said the option is always there to hire IBM consultants to help as and when required.
It is VERY possible for a new spiritual successor of Amiga to exist, but it takes talent, insight, a rewrite of OS4 and substantially huge balls of solid iron to venture into such a business. Would not be expensive as Xenon is significantly cheaper than i7 due to the rate at which IBM has been producing them for the last 4 years either. Not the A1000 though, like I said more of the 1988 Sega Megadrive vs Amiga A500 kind of level of price/performance/compromise level. Had such design choices been made you could easily have got 1080p gaming rig performance for less than i7 PC gaming rig prices. (Apple are always overpriced and no games for it so forget those).
PC-AT/XT vs A500 vs Sega 16bit console is no different to xbox360 type tech on a desktop machine vs xbox360 vs PC x86-64. Where is the problem? None except for lack of vision. Never going to happen I agree, but the reason why a seriously powerful box to run OS4 on one of its cores at 3.2ghz doesn't exist isn't really a technical issue. Xenon is dirt cheap, ATI GPUs cost peanuts in bulk, basic engineering skill to stick it all together on a custom mobo are plentiful amongst talented graduates etc.
And as I stated before, x1000 is fine if all people want is the fastest OS4 box money can buy, not great value for money and OS4 has its problems too hence my 'pass' on a potential purchase.
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Which brings us to the point of why the X1000 costs so much even though its built from parts that were not specifically designed for it.
Number/Volume, say it anyway you'd like, but the Amiga market is SMALL.
Low volume=high prices
Simple, isn't it?
Just think, if there was larger potential market.
First, prices would lower.
Second, if the market was large enough, a custom processor (Like Sony's and Microsoft's) could be commissioned.
Third and most importantly, the stranglehold X86 has on personal computers might be loosened and we could provide a viable alternative system.
Then again, Nah that never happening!
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The more things change the more they stay the same, my comment was merely if someone was serious about creating a true next gen OS4 platform then the only viable option is to use the 3.2Ghz Xenon CPU and to 'investigate' how Microsoft harness the power, the full price of which is still under $250 which is significantly cheaper than i7 solutions in x86-64 world. Creating the GLUE logic to make an ATI GPU and Xenon and RAM work is not costly or difficult and like I said the option is always there to hire IBM consultants to help as and when required.
It helps to be a multibillion corporation to do these things. Garage company such as a-eon will not be able to do it I'm afraid. It certainly won't be in the 6 figures, more like 8.
I still think you're dismissing the fact that if you need to somehow recoup your investment in the R&D. Unless if you see hundred of thousands of the units with nice profit margin you're not going to do it. How are you going to convince the VCs to invest in your business if you don't have some guaranteed way to generate profit?
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Which brings us to the point of why the X1000 costs so much even though its built from parts that were not specifically designed for it.
Number/Volume, say it anyway you'd like, but the Amiga market is SMALL.
Low volume=high prices
Simple, isn't it?
It's worse than that - PPCs come with a terrific price premium over other non x86 processors.
Take a look at SBC and dev boards for PPC, MIPS, ARM or even Coldfire. To get to G4 class speeds typically costs you double or even triple what all those other arches cost to get you there...
Third and most importantly, the stranglehold X86 has on personal computers might be loosened and we could provide a viable alternative system.
Then again, Nah that never happening!
The last chance for other cpu makers to really make significant inroads into the mainstream desktop market was in the early 90's. After that really the market was pretty much sewn up.
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It's worse than that - PPCs come with a terrific price premium over other non x86 processors.
Take a look at SBC and dev boards for PPC, MIPS, ARM or even Coldfire. To get to G4 class speeds typically costs you double or even triple what all those other arches cost to get you there...
The last chance for other cpu makers to really make significant inroads into the mainstream desktop market was in the early 90's. After that really the market was pretty much sewn up.
Yes, and the scary thing is the G4 is a pretty slow processor. Not much memory bandwidth and a single core. There are AMD processors on the market that sell for less than $50 that would slap the G4 silly.
And no one making PPC processors is going to tout their products as competitive in the PC market. The fastest PPCs are made by IBM and they're aimed at markets above the PC market, while all other PPC manufacturers shoot for embedded apps below the PC range.
While IBM could make a PPC or Cell/Xenon related processor that was at least close to competitive with X86 processors they flatly are not interested.
Trust me, I talked to the head of the division focused on Cell development. They only want to market their IP to companies they select for applications they approve of (read that as they feel they now where they can make money, and it ain't in PCs). Maybe their right, after all IBM designed processors are now a part of all three major game consoles.
Still, if a large company with deep pockets approached them and could guarantee they would purchase X# (read millions) of processors, they would listen. In that regard, IBM has my respect. They know how to remain profitable.
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I hope no one is saying the X1000 will make an impact on the market, don't delude yourself.
If you want to buy a nice PPC Amiga at a rather high price, it's your money and I won't be badgering you. Just point curious ex Amiga users to some cheaper alternatives. Otherwise they respond to the price "whaat!" and return to their PC without a second look.
In my opinion it will be pure luck if there are more PPC desktops available later on, even then they will expensive and fairly low powered. Amiga long term future is in Arm or x86. It could easily have an impact as a light lean OS if it got some momentum.
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Remind me again. Since many here on this bord bought their Amiga 1200 in the ESCOM days: What did the 1200 cost in 1995 when you would get a Pentium 100MHz with 16MB RAM and huge HD for 900$?
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I can show you why I would say no:
(http://www.amigascene.nl/uploads/photos/815.jpg)
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I can show you why I would say no ...
Salvador Dali would have loved this one. I prefer straight lines though.
I think both Natami and Minimig are great projects and they will certainly bring the Amiga into the future. They might still be around when most of the classic hardware is broken beyond repair.
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I can show you why I would say no:
(http://www.amigascene.nl/uploads/photos/815.jpg)
OMG new Commodore USA Amiga!!1
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I think both Natami and Minimig are great projects and they will certainly bring the Amiga into the future. They might still be around when most of the classic hardware is broken beyond repair.
Yep, but classic hardware can still be repaired and in the near future we will think of new ways to intergrating new hardware on these old boards.
We are already doing it and what is stopping us from using other cpu's instead of high cost and unavailble Motorola processors ?
Even the custom chips shouldn't be to hard to fit into one chip.
I think we will see enough great new hardware for the Amiga future.
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....How are you going to convince the VCs to invest in your business if you don't have some guaranteed way to generate profit?
I think that's something we could all learn from AmigaInc! :P
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Maybe their right, after all IBM designed processors are now a part of all three major game consoles.
Tbh that is likely to represent the last stronghold of the PPC. As it stands they're also heavy into telecoms, but with the likes of ARM and MIPS being as cheap and as flexible as they are, I can't see that remaining for much longer.
Still, if a large company with deep pockets approached them and could guarantee they would purchase X# (read millions) of processors, they would listen. In that regard, IBM has my respect. They know how to remain profitable.
Probably the next round of games consoles. Although again, price performance will be a major issue. ARM A9 or some of the multicore MIPS chips look damned nice at the minute.
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I respect what they're doing with this machine, but I won't be buying one because I don't have that type of discretionary income. Who seriously plans to buy one soon after it's available? Anyone here?
I had been planning to get on the beta-tester program, but a change in circumstances dictated a change in priorities (ie the job I had turned out to be a lemon, and now I'm going self-employed instead).
If the self-employed plan takes off wildly, then we'll see: north-of-£1500 is a lot of money...
I wish every luck to Trevor and have been in touch to say why I'm dropping out of the beta-test program (didn't want him thinking I was the moobunny leak).
I won't be buying a SAM460 (or SAM440 for that matter), as I have no need for it - MorphOS on the Mac mini fulfills most of my media centre requirements atm, and the Powermac release will fill the remaining holes (ie digital sound output - I have an Aureon Sky card waiting), although I may have to hack a more silent cooling solution than the current windtunnel fans on the PSU.
My Dual 1GHz G4 MDD Powermac cost a whole £65 (including delivery), so around £170 for a full system with OS - which IS within my budget.
Whilst I'd love to get into AmigaOS4.x and have a play around with it, the hardware prices are just too much for my meager budget to bear. So, I simply wish good luck to those buying the hardware, and look forward to seeing it in action at some social event (eg LAG).
In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy MorphOS, keep an eye on AROS, and observe the development of OS4.x, with gratitude for the efforts of the developers of all the OSes on the way.
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I won't buy one unless it runs MorphOS and costs below 300 euro.
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I can show you why I would say no:
(http://www.hemmy.net/images/gadget/angelkittykeyboard01.jpg)
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Where can I get one of those?
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lol. usage premium comes at a high price though.
Seriously, I would buy an X1000 if I could afford one. But I think the a sam460 is much closer to my portfolio!!
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Oh she smashed her keyboard because she can't work with Windows XP, then she really is a dumbass and I rather wouldn't see her doing this to a beautiful Natami :roflmao::roflmao:
And no it won't increase her breasts either :roflmao:
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lol. usage premium comes at a high price though.
Seriously, I would buy an X1000 if I could afford one. But I think the a sam460 is much closer to my portfolio!!
I'm rather interested in seeing what the SAM460 is like myself. Frankly, that motherboard's hardware is more in line AOS 4's requirements anyway.
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I can show you why I would say no:
(http://www.amigascene.nl/uploads/photos/815.jpg)
Wow! It even matches those useless blank keys on the A1200! I have an A1200, I use it occasionally, but I wish they didn't cut corners to make English-speakers use international keyboards with blank keys.
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I can show you why I would say no:
that thing is hideous
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Yep, sort of Salvador Dali meets '80s computing, and not in a good way. It would be nice if they produced a mini itx board and let us put it in a case. There's a lot of mini-itx cases that look quite stylish....
that thing is hideous
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that thing is hideous
It looks melted.
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oh la la is that young lady in the mickey mouse club
my l got my bib on hehe
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Why do all futuristic renderings of Amiga's look like all in one PCs? That form factor is not really that popular with PC users.
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Why do all futuristic renderings of Amiga's look like all in one PCs? That form factor is not really that popular with PC users.
Iggy mentions the elephant in the room.
Thanks Iggy, I saw clouds parting and sunshine pouring through as I read your post. Considering how much the average Amigan tinkers with hardware I would think the all in one idea would suck for many of us. The first thing I would do is recase it.
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I do like this case however:
http://zedomax.com/blog/2009/03/10/diy-steampunk-frankenstein-pc-mod/
Well come on, Chaos Engine is my all time favourite game.
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But seriously, If you like something a bit more sleek:
http://www.coolcomputercases.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/case-3.jpg
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62 more posts to go by the 31st. That's the idea.
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Why do all futuristic renderings of Amiga's look like all in one PCs? That form factor is not really that popular with PC users.
The most popular PC IS an all in one form factor. It's called a laptop :D. The first Natami will be a small motherboard for a tower. The low power consumption and all in one capabilities would make it a great candidate for a laptop though. It's just that laptops cost a lot of money to make. There had been talk on the Natami forum about retrofitting to a cheap existing laptop but that would be later of course. Some Amiga users do love this Amiga 1200 form factor though.
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I'll give you the laptop comment, that's fair and a Natami laptop would rock. As for the A1200 form factor, it's great as far as it goes but once you start expaning it gets a bit tight. You can squeeze in networking and an optical drive but a faster than 030 CPU and RTG card leaves very few options in the original case. It is do-able of course but It's easier to go for a tower. I guess it depends on what you use it for and if you have other Amigas to use for RTG games etc..
Don't get me wrong, I still have an A1200 wedge myself but it's my "classic era" machine so to speak. '030 is enough and wireless networking is via PCMCIA. I also have a pet hate in the form of external drives, too messy for me, My desk is cluttered enough without adding to it. However, an opinion is just that and it all comes down to taste in the end.
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(http://steampunkworkshop.com/images/ain30-desktop.jpg)
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Why do all futuristic renderings of Amiga's look like all in one PCs? That form factor is not really that popular with PC users.
Actually, all in ones, or so called lifestyle PCs are one of the few growth areas for desktop systems. The only other area where growth is occurring is laptops, which as another poster pointed out, is little more than an all in one.
Truth is, there isn't the need to have a honking great tower, and unless you're a geek, chances are even with one the only upgrade it'll receive in it's lifetime will be its immediate successor given the power offered by most systems.
Even in the workplace micro towers and all in ones are where its all going. Space = money.
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(http://steampunkworkshop.com/images/ain30-desktop.jpg)
Now that sir, is a thing of beauty.
I <3 steampunk, I was on that site earlier today as it happens.
There is actually a company that makes those keyboards to order I found out.
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Maybe in larger organisations yes the_leander, but as small businesses make up for the vast majority of the marketplace I would say Time is a much higher priority. Very few businesses are going to go out of their way to replace existing hardware that is fit for purpose just go to and replace it with newer technology that just takes up less space - especially at this time when the world is in recession. It will be down to hardware manufacturers at the end of the day to determine what type of system they think the consumer will buy in the future without compromising on expandability and a number of other factors.
Nevertheless your point is still valid, I just don't think there is sufficient momentum behind it yet do you?
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Nevertheless your point is still valid, I just don't think there is sufficient momentum behind it yet do you?
I suspect that as the recession lifts and hardware naturally gets replaced old tower systems will get replaced more often with all in ones, because there is little to no justification for having a full tower unless you're a gamer or specifically need an addon card to do your work. The PC market is saturated, so you won't get a huge jump in sales because of a new form factor, but you will see trends develop thanks to natural wastage.
Someone on another site I frequent pointed out that hardware made in 2001 was still more than adequate for most day to day tasks, a point backed up by the fact that Atom based systems can hold their own. Consider that for a moment and think back to 2001, from that point in time could anyone seriously say the same of 1992 hardware?
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Absolutely not; the gap in technological advancement is massive in comparison right.
OT:
I think the timeframe of the recession lifting as you put it, seems to be getting further and further away - especially here in the UK. I ring businesses and local authorities as part of my daily work and all I am hearing is negativity. I am told over the phone 'oh we have to print in Black and White now as opposed to Colour to save money on ink cartridges we certainly don't have any money to buy what you are offering' or 'we have to ask permission from management to print absolutely anything'. Bleak times ahead. Hence my apprehension.. there is just no money about unless your a Solicitor, Debt Collector, Funeral Director or a f-ing Banker.
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I think the timeframe of the recession lifting as you put it, seems to be getting further and further away
No it's about the same distance as it always was - about a generation away to fix all the damage. Only difference is now that people are waking up to this fact.
Other than that yeah I agree with your post.
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Actually, all in ones, or so called lifestyle PCs are one of the few growth areas for desktop systems.
I bet these are the "good" kind of all in ones, though, system in the monitor like the iMac and Dell all in ones, and not the silly "super heavy keyboard I spilled my soda on and now my PC is dead" variety.
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I bet these are the "good" kind of all in ones, though, system in the monitor like the iMac and Dell all in ones, and not the silly "super heavy keyboard I spilled my soda on and now my PC is dead" variety.
You would be quids in with that guess. :)
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OT: I think the timeframe of the recession lifting as you put it, seems to be getting further and further away - especially here in the UK. I ring businesses and local authorities as part of my daily work and all I am hearing is negativity. I am told over the phone 'oh we have to print in Black and White now as opposed to Colour to save money on ink cartridges we certainly don't have any money to buy what you are offering' or 'we have to ask permission from management to print absolutely anything'. Bleak times ahead. Hence my apprehension.. there is just no money about unless your a Solicitor, Debt Collector, Funeral Director or a f-ing Banker.
It will most likely get worse before it gets better. US will more then likely (depending on next months elections and if the GOP can stop the rash of new taxes going into effect on Jan 1st) go back into recession. If the US does go into a recession, I don't see much hope until 2013 at the earliest of coming out of it. 2014 will likely see the US dipping yet again as the next wave of Obama taxes destroy the economy.
SAM460's price tag is going to be tough to chew on, the A1X1K's is just insanely priced. Which is kind of fitting since it's a relic of the past when one could ask for outlandish amount of money for PPC system. PPC for desktops declined for a reason, and we are being reminded of why with these new systems. Current economics just magnify it's short comings even more so.
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My personal feeling is that there's just too much good new stuff on the market to spend money on that it's hard to spend north of £1,500 on yesterday's technology. I'm collecting tablets at the moment and they are a lot of fun and don't cost anywhere near that amount. There are just too many toys and not enough time to play with them...
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Please take the teabagging to the political area.....I came here to read about Amiga's......
It will most likely get worse before it gets better. US will more then likely (depending on next months elections and if the GOP can stop the rash of new taxes going into effect on Jan 1st) go back into recession. If the US does go into a recession, I don't see much hope until 2013 at the earliest of coming out of it. 2014 will likely see the US dipping yet again as the next wave of Obama taxes destroy the economy.
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Please take the teabagging to the political area.....I came here to read about Amiga's......
Please stop using sexually offensive terminology. I find it personally offensive.
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For those who have been living on another planet:
(It's wikipedia, but be warned the page is sexually explicit)
Teabagging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging)
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Some socialism has never killed many.
Politics should probably be discused only on CH?
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Personally, I despise non stand form factors. I'm a chronic tinkerer and if I can't alter it I don't want it.
I could see using a laptop since that would have the benefit of portability. Using the interest from any location within the reach of my router would be cool.
But an all in one system? What if the keyboard goes bad? And I prefer older key click keyboards (noisy but it has tactile feedback), So I can't pick that component. And an all in one is bulkier than a keyboard (I'm not going to pick it up and put it in my lap like I occasionally do with my current system).
What about the other parts? I may have a choice of hard drives and the amount of installed memory, but everything else is built in.
So, no choice of video or sound cards. No expansion bus to add accessory cards.
Basically, once its obsolete I throw it out.
That might work for business. They rarely upgrade rather then replace.
An all in one computer doesn't suit me and never will.
At one time everyone was trying to convince me BTX cases were the wave of the future. ATX cases are still the most common type sold to people building or upgrading their systems. Micro ATX is beginning to make sense as many of the components that had to be added by cards are now commonly integrated into motherboards.
But I really don't believe that the keyboard computer will ever dominate.
I'd be less surprised to see laptops and netbooks become the most common PC form.
Oh, BTW, coming from Delaware and facing the potential of having a total tea bag head case elected to Congress the year (Christine O'Donnell), please don't drag us into this. I can promise you that with the ammunition that people from that party provide from their own mouths I can make your position look asinine.
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Oh gawd! grow up!. All I ask is you stay somewhat on topic and leave random politics over to the political section.
Please stop using sexually offensive terminology. I find it personally offensive.
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that thing is hideous
It looks melted.
Why do all futuristic renderings of Amiga's look like all in one PCs? That form factor is not really that popular with PC users.
Yep, sort of Salvador Dali meets '80s computing, and not in a good way. It would be nice if they produced a mini itx board and let us put it in a case. There's a lot of mini-itx cases that look quite stylish....
The rendering is just fan art of how a Natami could look like, nothing is set and nothing is definitive, so untill then it's all guessing at what it will be and how it will look :hammer:
This is how the baseboard looks now:
(http://www.natami.net/gfx/NatAmi16_LX/natami16_lx_5.jpg)
http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm
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Any chance of a wireless keyboard on the NatAmi?
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Any chance of a wireless keyboard on the NatAmi?
I guess this thread is as offtopic as it gets now. Or are you seriously comparing Natami to the X1000? Do you think there will be users coming back to the Amiga platform, because there is an 68060-class board on the market?
While I think Natami is great. I am sure it caters to a much different audience.
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I'm very picky about input devices, so the classic keyboard+computer form factor is kind of a turn off at this point. When I find a keyboard, mouse or joystick I like, I refuse to use anything else.
Besides keyboards can get dirty and worn out, and I'd rather not have to order special key modules and have to open up my computer just because the keyboard needs to be replaced.
The only type of AIO form factor that I like nowadays is the display+computer style, like the iMac for example. Display technology is now cheap enough and is changing fast enough that I want a new monitor as often as I want a new computer.
Years ago, I wouldn't dream of ditching my awesome CRT when upgrading my computer, but now that everything is cheap and light flat panel technology, I don't really care.
The LCD I have today is going to look like outdated trash next to the LED backlit, high contrast ratio, fast response time, quad HD display that I'll be able to get for half the price two years from now, and that display will be obsolete once AMOLED screens break the consumer price barrier.
Oh yeah, on topic, I don't think I'll be getting an X1000. It's just out of my price range and I don't have any reverance for the brand name any more. I'm a classic Amiga fan and a gamer, so I'll stick with my A500 and keep my eye on the minimigAGA and natami projects.
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Off topic here, but that's the current Natami board? It's tiny!
I don't think PPC systems and the Natami really compete with one another. I love to have a new 68K system, but its not going to be my main computer.
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Unless the X1000 comes with an Adobe style non-linear video editor, no. Waaaay too expensive.
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Do you seriously think that there will be users coming back to the Amiga platform? We are all there is and all there likely will be, whatever we do in the Amiga world we need to do for ourselves, not some mythical entry by troops...
I guess this thread is as offtopic as it gets now. Or are you seriously comparing Natami to the X1000? Do you think there will be users coming back to the Amiga platform, because there is an 68060-class board on the market?
While I think Natami is great. I am sure it caters to a much different audience.
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Personally, I despise non stand form factors. I'm a chronic tinkerer and if I can't alter it I don't want it.
Thing is, you're a dying breed, unfortunately.
But an all in one system? What if the keyboard goes bad?
Err, by all in one, I was talking iMac or similar - where the computer is built into the screen, not the keyboard. So in the case of "what if the keyboard goes bad", the answer is "buy a new one".
Having the computer built into the keyboard might be kinda cool and quirky in the retro sense, but it is a form factor that comes with too many compromises, even against iMac style systems.
What about the other parts? I may have a choice of hard drives and the amount of installed memory, but everything else is built in.
So, no choice of video or sound cards. No expansion bus to add accessory cards.
Basically, once its obsolete I throw it out.
Unless you're a gamer, or someone who has a specific need for a particular addon card, or in your case, a tinkerer, there really isn't the need for a honking great tower system, the vast majority of computers sold to consumers come with integrated everything and never get upgraded anyway, hell a good few of them will get dumped simply because of virus infestation rather than anything being wrong with the hardware...
That might work for business. They rarely upgrade rather then replace.
An all in one computer doesn't suit me and never will.
You != Average computer user.
Micro ATX is beginning to make sense as many of the components that had to be added by cards are now commonly integrated into motherboards.
The vast majority of systems sold in towers these days are MATX. They're cheap to produce, offer good enough graphics and sound, but again, unless the owner is like you or has specific need for a specific addon card or is a gamer, chances are that board will never, ever see an upgrade. Then again if you're a gamer chances are you're not going to be buying an entry level system which make up the majority of all PC sales.
But I really don't believe that the keyboard computer will ever dominate.
It won't, but all in ones of the type the rest of us are talking about - IE where it's built into the screen - the so called "lifestyle PC" probably will.
The netbook market has pretty much dried up as the emphasis on small cheap computers has moved to price ranges above entry level laptops, at which point it gets harder to justify the costs.
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Off topic here, but that's the current Natami board? It's tiny!
Yes, and the production board will not have the 68060 but an fpga cpu.
I don't think PPC systems and the Natami really compete with one another. I love to have a new 68K system, but its not going to be my main computer.
The Natami should be competitive with the low end PPC in the SAM. The clock speed is about 1/3 but CISC does more with less while having similar memory bandwidth and more helper processors with no slow buss to go through. I think the code will be more efficient too. The high end PPC (except IBM Power processors) is not getting faster very fast at all. On the other hand, fpgas are getting cheap fast allowing the performance to grow. It's price to performance ratio that will likely win the battle in the end. The x1000 sounds like the nicest most powerful PPC system yet but I think the price to performance is too far off to be successful.
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Do you seriously think that there will be users coming back to the Amiga platform? We are all there is and all there likely will be, whatever we do in the Amiga world we need to do for ourselves, not some mythical entry by troops...
I have come back myself. I haven´t done anything on Amigas between 1995 and 2008. Then I tried AROS - got dissapointed there and invested in SAM.
I am not talking about troops, but maybe one or two old veterans. It is the individual that counts.
Unless the X1000 comes with an Adobe style non-linear video editor, no.
There is a video editor in Blender. I haven´t really done anything with it, but it looked rather promising. I got the impression that it was even workable on my SAMs 800MHz CPU, so it should fly on an X1000.
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No. Cannot be used for anything useful in the real world and lacks any retro value that an old real Amiga might have.
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No. Cannot be used for anything useful in the real world and lacks any retro value that an old real Amiga might have.
Eh ?
"anything useful" is pretty broad. 99% of the crap normal people use computers for can be done on a far more modest machine than what the hardcore geeks think it "needed"
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I am not talking about troops, but maybe one or two old veterans. It is the individual that counts.
Thing is, that's all you're going to really get, one or two people more.
There is a video editor in Blender. I haven´t really done anything with it, but it looked rather promising. I got the impression that it was even workable on my SAMs 800MHz CPU, so it should fly on an X1000.
Blender is a 3d rendering package, iirc the editor within it is suited solely for setting up scenes within the 3d environment. It's not a video editor in the sense that avidmux or cinerella or windows movie editor is.
Eh ?
"anything useful" is pretty broad. 99% of the crap normal people use computers for can be done on a far more modest machine than what the hardcore geeks think it "needed"
The X1000/SAM doesn't even offer that though. Not because of hardware limitations, but because there simply isn't the software.
Couple that with the fact that a huge chunk of the Amiga's back catalogue is only available through UAE and you're left with the question "why the hell did I pay $2-3k for something that could be outdone by a machine costing a 5th of that?"
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Unless someone comes up with a killer app on the X1000 that is not available on the PC, I will definitely not buy one. I have plenty of classics to play with just to get my old time fix.
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Do you seriously think that there will be users coming back to the Amiga platform? We are all there is and all there likely will be, whatever we do in the Amiga world we need to do for ourselves, not some mythical entry by troops...
Yeah if either X1000 or Natami picks up, then it will be a change from your everyday PC / Mac.
My bet is on Natami, X1000 is just way too overpriced.
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The X1000/SAM doesn't even offer that though. Not because of hardware limitations, but because there simply isn't the software.
Couple that with the fact that a huge chunk of the Amiga's back catalogue is only available through UAE and you're left with the question "why the hell did I pay $2-3k for something that could be outdone by a machine costing a 5th of that?"
Yeah, the app limitations is the thing that is crushing the "next gen" amiga options.
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Yeah, the app limitations is the thing that is crushing the "next gen" amiga options.
Indeed. Although the hardware options themselves aren't all that attractive even from the context of running Linux on them.
But both poor software support and overpriced hardware... Yeah that'll go down well in the wider market...
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Indeed. Although the hardware options themselves aren't all that attractive even from the context of running Linux on them.
But both poor software support and overpriced hardware... Yeah that'll go down well in the wider market...
I still think the Pegasos ones seem to have been the best bet for a "modern amiga".
As far as I can tell, they weren't monster expensive. Of course things hadn't moved as far either at that point.
These days, I think we're safely in "hobby only" territory.
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I still think the Pegasos ones seem to have been the best bet for a "modern amiga".
As far as I can tell, they weren't monster expensive. Of course things hadn't moved as far either at that point.
Tbh Peg2 was a much better all round system. It didn't have the issues that came with the Articia S chipset. It was also fairly inexpensive.
But Peg 1 and 2 were both cheaper than the AmigaOne. Peg2 was, iirc cheaper than the Sam as well.
These days, I think we're safely in "hobby only" territory.
It's a shame apparently so few people in the community realise this. :(
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It's a shame apparently so few people in the community realise this. :(
I realise it, but their are some great people out there still doing great work on hardware.
It could have been different, if the end of Commodore really had everyone pulling out and doing nothing, then Amiga's and other Commordores would have vanished by now.
I'm just glad the retro feel of all old Commodores and all other consoles for that matter have stayed trough time.
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This whole Amiga thing is a real downer, man!
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Blender is a 3d rendering package, iirc the editor within it is suited solely for setting up scenes within the 3d environment.
It is definitely much more than this. There are tutorials on how to cut footage using Blender. It is powerful, yet somewhat unintuitive.
The X1000/SAM doesn't even offer that though. Not because of hardware limitations, but because there simply isn't the software.
Well there already is software to do e-mail, web surfing, irc, 3d rendering & movie editing, photo-management, word processing, retouche, painting, spreadsheets, dtp, games and software development. This is more than the original Amiga had in 1985. It might be enough for some people.
Try that on an iPad!
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@Piru
Some socialism has never killed many.
There are several million dead Russians who'd disagree with you.
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It is definitely much more than this. There are tutorials on how to cut footage using Blender. It is powerful, yet somewhat unintuitive.
2.43 and above only, and then only if you have a compatible version of ffmpeg installed.
Well there already is software to do e-mail, web surfing, irc, 3d rendering & movie editing, photo-management, word processing, retouche, painting, spreadsheets, dtp, games and software development. This is more than the original Amiga had in 1985. It might be enough for some people.
Try that on an iPad!
From the top, web surfing, so long as you don't mind not having java or flash, or indeed a usable browser, sure, you can browse. 3d rendering.. great, I can render like it's 1999!, photo management... Everything from feature phones upwards can do this, this isn't a feature, this is a baseline requirement to being taken seriously. Word Processing, so you can read and write to modern versions of Word documents, right? What's that, you cant? Then cross off that from the list. Painting, again, baseline, even my Tocco Lite has some basic retouching facilities. Spreadsheets, ok, great, again, can you read/write to excell or even OO.orgs file formats? DTP, heh... When I was big into the BeOS scene a few years back a friend of mine, someone who uses DTP professionally asked about Amiga DTP software and I pointed them to Pagestream, the comment I got back was "wait, people actually pay for this?". Software development? Hah, you'll be damned hard pressed to find a more spartan environment for development than the Amiga.
Also, trying to compare a web pad to an alleged desktop computer? LOL!
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After following this thread for several days I discern an unoptimistic view of the future of Amiga. Well, Amiga OS 4.1 is not a top notch OS, not even remotely. It lacks many eases that are taken for granted on Windows and Apples, even on Linux.
Nonetheless, the platform is still alive and with one way or another it is moving forward. Even new Amiga systems like the X1000 and the SAM boards still remain in the hobbyist domain, at least as I see them. I wouldn`t expect to get the same functionality as on my 4-core main desktop.
But yet again, by using it, maybe even developing something for it, that just might be a little pebble that helps the Amiga live on. I just don`t expect it ever again to become my main computer!!
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@lsmart
Actually you can do that on an iPad!
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I'm kinda at a depressed that commodore is gone and the little brown man killed it. I dont think i'd buy anything other then the rendered amiga 500 looking PC from commodoreusa.net. however that all fake anyhow.
Long Live the memory of J
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There is a video editor in Blender. I haven´t really done anything with it, but it looked rather promising.
Trust me, it's nothing, compared to Premiere and After Effects, or Shake, which has been discontinued, sadly. :(
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I wonder what A-Eon must be thinking!!