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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ElPolloDiabl on September 18, 2010, 08:55:21 AM

Title: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on September 18, 2010, 08:55:21 AM
Hi, Which is the best media for long term storage... A DVD-R, a CD-R, USB Flash drive, good quality hard drive, tape?
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Xanxi on September 18, 2010, 09:36:09 AM
Hard-drive stored in a safe place, if you want your datas at home, or space storage somewhere on internet if you want it outside.
Anyway, double save your datas :)
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Astral on September 18, 2010, 09:49:44 AM
A combination of all possible backup sources - although I understand that's not the most practical. :)

If I was to choose one, it'd be CD/DVD. Not too small that you could misplace it. Cheap, and never had one fail on me!
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: loedown on September 18, 2010, 09:53:34 AM
I am no expert but I've read it's best to keep;


1. As your master at home, work disk

2. Backup at home stored away somewhere out of direct light and safe

3. Backup kept somewhere else safe, other premises


I use DVD and hard drive backup via a dedicated HDD unit in mirror ( Thecus N2200 )
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: bubblebobble on September 18, 2010, 10:11:05 AM
A stone.

This is a pretty robust medium and can last many thousands of years.

Unfortunately the capacity is rather limited, even if it was enough for the 10 commandments ;)
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Xanxi on September 18, 2010, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: bubblebobble;579973
A stone.

This is a pretty robust medium and can last many thousands of years.

Unfortunately the capacity is rather limited, even if it was enough for the 10 commandments ;)


I fully agree :D
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: mousehouse on September 18, 2010, 12:43:51 PM
It all depends on the data... how much risk are you willing to take on it?

I backup my Mac automatically to a Time Capsule. That way I always have a backup that is 1 hour out of sync at most. Then about every 3 to 4 weeks I sync my Photo's, Music,  Documents and Development folders to an external 2.5" USB harddrive that I have put somewhere safe. And about once or twice a year I burn all Photo's to DVD's and store them with my parents...
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Linde on September 18, 2010, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: bubblebobble;579973
A stone.

This is a pretty robust medium and can last many thousands of years.

Unfortunately the capacity is rather limited, even if it was enough for the 10 commandments ;)


I was about to suggest rock carving :)

But really, some kind of robust optical media should be the best for long term storage. I'm sure something better than CD is used by serious digital archivists
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: the_leander on September 18, 2010, 02:08:03 PM
Quote from: Linde;579989
I was about to suggest rock carving :)

But really, some kind of robust optical media should be the best for long term storage. I'm sure something better than CD is used by serious digital archivists


Probably something like Magneto Optical. In terms of media robustness outside of a piece of amber or a rock you're not going to get much better.

Problem is, the media and the drives are hideously expensive and the capacities are a fraction of DAT.

If you're that determined, you're probably as well off to use multiple sources for all important data. Gmail accounts make for great storage.

Then there are more specialised companies like box.net.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Fingers on September 18, 2010, 03:34:52 PM
One of my workmates is a long time music industry professional turned archivist & he swears by optical media (CD/DVD), in particular the brand Princo.

I myself use IMC branded discs & have never had any die yet :)

PZ.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on September 18, 2010, 03:44:13 PM
I use DVD-R at the moment, the only problem is that fingerprints after a few years turn sticky and are hard to wipe off. Also on 1 or 2 discs the silver material flakes off near the edge and the disc becomes squirly.
What I might continue doing is label the disc backup and lock it away for five years and then check on the condition. Otherwise I will load a 1 Terabyte hard drive and store that. Give it a check every few years and then maybe retire it at 10 years.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: modrobert on September 18, 2010, 03:53:05 PM
Regardless of media, I recommend using par2 (http://www.quickpar.org.uk/) to efficiently secure the data further, that way it will not matter if there are a few errors here and there, as long as you have enough par2 blocks to repair. Think of it as a flat file RAID5 system (Reed-Solomon).
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: runequester on September 18, 2010, 05:39:17 PM
For the few things that I want to ensure is not lost, I usually have a couple of online sources, as well as a CD or DVD.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Heinz on September 18, 2010, 07:17:44 PM
I would prefer CD over DVD as the Data Density is much lower and it seems to have more redundancies.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: jsixis on September 18, 2010, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: Xanxi;579968
Hard-drive stored in a safe place, if you want your datas at home, or space storage somewhere on internet if you want it outside.
Anyway, double save your datas :)



 I agree, stick a hard drive in your machine and once a month copy new, then unplug it
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: kolla on September 18, 2010, 10:28:11 PM
Quote from: bubblebobble;579973
Unfortunately the capacity is rather limited, even if it was enough for the 10 commandments


And look what happened to them; they were lost, regenerated and altered many times up through the time, so we today have a whole bunch of so called 10 commandments, each cult with their own corrupted copy :)
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: motrucker on September 18, 2010, 10:56:10 PM
There were (are?) CDs and DVDs that use a gold layer rather than just silver that supposedly increases the life to something like 80 to 100 years and are still pretty cheap.
I personally still have SyQuest 270 hard drive cartridges with data that is about 20 years old, and is still there. They made up to 2Gb cartridges I believe. Don't confuse these with the junk that ZIP (IOmega?) drives used.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Boudicca on September 18, 2010, 11:37:06 PM
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;579964
Hi, Which is the best media for long term storage... A DVD-R, a CD-R, USB Flash drive, good quality hard drive, tape?


Paper ironically. Next is stone (Suffers from problems relating being not very flexible), Paper is flexible and if kept inside a reasonably priced stone or lead box might survive 5 or 6 civilisations, another option is firing it off into space, no air to degrade the storage medium, it is anticipated that Voyager 1 and 2 might outlast the human species unless they bump into something first.

For us mere mortals the best form of long term storage is "refreshing your long term storage" every year or two. We are now hold patient data that goes back to the 70's, its gone from.....Punch - Magnetic Tape - Floppy Disk - Hard Disk - CD - DVDRAM - Back to Magnetic Tape and now to hard disk in two places or 3 if you count data centers backup too.

More than 1 copy is the key to long term storage, crack that and you laughing.

Ironically we had the answer all the time...Mr Caxton and Gutenberg...Make lots of copies and they survive centuries.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: xPhilx on September 19, 2010, 02:23:57 AM
Quote from: bubblebobble;579973
A stone.

This is a pretty robust medium and can last many thousands of years.

Unfortunately the capacity is rather limited, even if it was enough for the 10 commandments ;)


I've always found an elephant works just fine for me.  a bugger getting it back under the bed though!

Seriously, I use external hard drives, more cost effective per gigabyte than DVDs and a hell of a lot less hassle.  What is it now - about £30 for a 500GB HDD?  In saying that though I do still use QIC80 and DAT24 tapes in the retro PCs just for that retro feeling.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: persia on September 19, 2010, 03:41:48 AM
Regular paper that you buy at Woolys or K-Mart is *not* acid free, it will die in a decade or two, acid free paper will last much longer...
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Drummerboy on September 19, 2010, 04:23:43 AM
Then..

What happen with the Pendrives?.. Why its not a safety storage way?
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Thorham on September 19, 2010, 08:45:12 AM
Quote from: Boudicca;580087
Paper ironically.
What about a metal plate with the data etched on to it? If the metal is non-corrosive then it will almost last for ever :)
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: Boudicca on September 19, 2010, 09:16:46 AM
Quote from: Thorham;580126
What about a metal plate with the data etched on to it? If the metal is non-corrosive then it will almost last for ever :)


i.e like Voyager 1 and 2 then ;) Expensive tho, those plates on them cost a far few quid.
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: actung_bab on September 19, 2010, 09:26:45 AM
if you use dvd R cd rs not that l had any problems keep them out direct sunlight
avoid using lables on the disc itself and your have no problems
Title: Re: Which is the best media for long term storage?
Post by: scuzzb494 on September 19, 2010, 10:24:59 AM
Nothing. The trick is to cycle through duplicate back ups. What I have found is that the new USB storage devices are so large on a conventional machine you can keep several copies of everything and never worry about data loss. I did have old PCs that I had salvaged networked just for hard drives. The Amiga OS and software is so small I could copy most stuff in a fraction of time. I gave up with CD's and DVDs cus of access. You really cant beat a couple of either external USB drives or series of old PCs. Just make several copies of everything and have a backup routine. I have the Amiga networked to several machines and have FTP access to my online storage.

If you want your stuff to last for life then get a domain, online storage, spread it across the web and give others access to it. Interestingly I have been asked by several people to keep copies of their Amiga OS and software cus there machine had broken. I have special areas on my website for storage of information and software and have even a second domain with hosting for all my demo and PD disks.

Someone also pointed out that stone outlives everything.

CDs and DVDs are worse than floppies cus once damaged the whole thing is shot, at least with floppies I could salvage something. I really don`t trust any removable media. Its also a pain to find stuff and the drives get updated all the time as does software.

You can pick up an old PC for a couple of quid and stick in a couple of hard drives and using even a crude parnet can safely transfer your beloved Amiga software. Also get SCSI on the Amiga off a Blizzard or Squirrel and get a couple of external drives with 4GB hard drives in them. Mac style old ones. As I say the Amiga OS is so small would take an age to fill.

Backup and duplication is the key. And being able to get at the data ' all the time ' not by sifting through endless discs, disks etc etc.