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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: dougal on September 05, 2010, 08:51:14 PM

Title: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 05, 2010, 08:51:14 PM
My A4000T with Picasso IV works great with the CRT SVGA monitor it is connected to, but id like to have it connected to an LCD.

I had connected it to a 22" Widescreen LCD and that worked perfectly, but i have since then sold the 22".

I have a 17" LCD which would be perfect but whenever i try using it it says something about the signal being out of range.

I remember running into the same problem with my (now sold) A4000D which had a ScanMagic/FlickerMagic. Worked fine on the 22" but not on the 17" LCD.

Is there a way i can force the Picasso or the monitor to be compatible with each other?
A setting or something?
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: mousehouse on September 05, 2010, 08:58:58 PM
You could try the 7.5 firmware released a few days ago to see if that solves your problem?
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: ajk on September 05, 2010, 09:18:27 PM
That does indeed sound very much like the trouble I had just earlier, and it got fixed. See discussion here (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=54582). Of course it might be that you just haven't set the refresh rate to a suitable value; check the manual/specs, a lot of the monitors only accept 56-75Hz.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 05, 2010, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: mousehouse;577913
You could try the 7.5 firmware released a few days ago to see if that solves your problem?


Tried that, but still the same.

It sort of looks like its gonna try and give a pic when Amiga is turned on and then it says "Out of Range" then during boot again looks like its gonna give a display "gives a dark grey screen" and then again says "out of range"
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: Darrin on September 05, 2010, 09:25:38 PM
I've just been adjusting my P96 drivers to work with my Radeon card.  Initially almost all the modes were "out of range".  Just go into your Prefs folder, open the PicassoMode prefs and start adjusting the screen modes one at a time using the "clock" slider bar.  As you slide it back and forth from left to right you should see the Horizontal and Vertical frequencies below change.  My monitor supports 28-82KHz and 50-85Hz.  I created a 1920x1080 screen mode, set the clock at 159.75MHz which gave me a 65kHz and 54Hz frequency which (using the TEST button) gave me a rock solid picture.  Once you find a screen mode that works then SAVE your settings.  Reboot, go to your Screen Mode Prefs, select it, TEST it and if it works then save or use it.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: MastaTabs on September 05, 2010, 09:29:37 PM
You could try to bring your amiga up in an NTSC mode, maybe the 60Hz are enough to get your display to work.

Hold your left and right mousebuttons at boot time to get into the Early startup menu and then hit space. That should switch to ntsc or pal. Look what happens.

Does your lcd on screen menu say something about the frequency ?

regs
Masta
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 05, 2010, 09:42:22 PM
Quote from: Darrin;577923
I've just been adjusting my P96 drivers to work with my Radeon card.  Initially almost all the modes were "out of range".  Just go into your Prefs folder, open the PicassoMode prefs and start adjusting the screen modes one at a time using the "clock" slider bar.  As you slide it back and forth from left to right you should see the Horizontal and Vertical frequencies below change.  My monitor supports 28-82KHz and 50-85Hz.  I created a 1920x1080 screen mode, set the clock at 159.75MHz which gave me a 65kHz and 54Hz frequency which (using the TEST button) gave me a rock solid picture.  Once you find a screen mode that works then SAVE your settings.  Reboot, go to your Screen Mode Prefs, select it, TEST it and if it works then save or use it.


I cant do that while the LCD is connected as i get no display... Could i do it while the CRT is connected and then switch monitors?
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 05, 2010, 09:43:08 PM
Quote from: MastaTabs;577925
You could try to bring your amiga up in an NTSC mode, maybe the 60Hz are enough to get your display to work.

Hold your left and right mousebuttons at boot time to get into the Early startup menu and then hit space. That should switch to ntsc or pal. Look what happens.

Does your lcd on screen menu say something about the frequency ?

regs
Masta


Cant even see the early startup using the LCD, so i cant do that unless ....maybe i can push space bar i didnt think of that
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: koshman on September 05, 2010, 10:01:31 PM
You'll just have to do some cable switching - between the LCD and the CRT. Adjust a screenmode in the P96 prefs, press the test button and connect the LCD - if it works, great, if not, you should be able to just press ESC and the previous functional screenmode will be activated again at which point you reconnect back to your CRT and continue tuning.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: Darrin on September 06, 2010, 03:14:43 AM
Quote from: dougal;577930
I cant do that while the LCD is connected as i get no display... Could i do it while the CRT is connected and then switch monitors?


Ah, it is your native modes that are causing trouble too.

It has already been mentioned above, your problem is probably your LCD not supporting native PAL modes, so switch to NTSC for native modes and then do what I mentioned above for the RTG modes.

One of the reasons I picked the ViewSonic LCD was that it would handle PAL modes too so I could use it with all my Amigas/Minimig.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 11:38:53 AM
I can see a display if i boot up into early startup and then press spacebar for ntsc but when i boot up it goes back to pal or something because i lose the display
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: mousehouse on September 07, 2010, 11:46:00 AM
I have exactly the same problem with my Picasso IV and the 3.9 boot floppy. On all other occasions it works perfectly... every 3.1 boot floppy I've thrown at it works - just the 3.9 emergency boot that doesn't.

Maybe you can deactivate some modes/resolutions in the Picasso preferences program? Also, you can remove the PAL monitor in DEVS:Monitors and only leave NTSC and PicassoIV, maybe that helps?
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 11:55:48 AM
Quote from: mousehouse;578173
I have exactly the same problem with my Picasso IV and the 3.9 boot floppy. On all other occasions it works perfectly... every 3.1 boot floppy I've thrown at it works - just the 3.9 emergency boot that doesn't.

Maybe you can deactivate some modes/resolutions in the Picasso preferences program? Also, you can remove the PAL monitor in DEVS:Monitors and only leave NTSC and PicassoIV, maybe that helps?


Would games run badly if i do that? and would i get a display using amiga native stuff (Not RTG) ?
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: mousehouse on September 07, 2010, 12:11:21 PM
For me the flicker fixer on the Picasso card works fine, except for this 3.9 emergency bootdisk issue I encountered (which still doesn't work - I need to try the 7.5 update).
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: mousehouse;578176
For me the flicker fixer on the Picasso card works fine, except for this 3.9 emergency bootdisk issue I encountered (which still doesn't work - I need to try the 7.5 update).


I tried the 7.5 update. It did nothing for me :(
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: ajk on September 07, 2010, 12:33:11 PM
Which modes don't work? Native modes (scandoubled), RTG modes, or neither?

Have you edited (using a display that works) the refresh rates to something your LCD can definitely accept? 60Hz is usually a safe bet.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: ajk;578179
Which modes don't work? Native modes (scandoubled), RTG modes, or neither?

Have you edited (using a display that works) the refresh rates to something your LCD can definitely accept? 60Hz is usually a safe bet.


How do i do that?

Sorry all the questions, its just that the corner where i managed to put my A4000T its very difficult to keep changing VGA cables between the CRT and LCD and so id like to do as little cable switching as possible.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: zipper on September 07, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Using this:
http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sophisticated-development.de%2Fsoftware%2FP-IV%2Fpmtng-2.9.lha&ei=lXWGTIGcFsnaOJyAvdcO&usg=AFQjCNGo4qWzh1LUIovsJvjYgM1wG4jHvw
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: zipper;578221
Using this:
http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sophisticated-development.de%2Fsoftware%2FP-IV%2Fpmtng-2.9.lha&ei=lXWGTIGcFsnaOJyAvdcO&usg=AFQjCNGo4qWzh1LUIovsJvjYgM1wG4jHvw


Installed.. But my Benq monitor isnt listed :(
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 06:51:50 PM
Specs for my LCD

Technical Information:

·  Screen Size: 17.1"

·  Resolution: 1280x1024 (SXGA)

·  Pixel pitch: (mm) 0.264 mm

·  Display Colors: 16.2 million

·  Horizontal Frequency (KHz): 31 - 81

·  Vertical Frequency (Hz): 56 - 76

·  Video Bandwidth (MHz): 25 - 135

·  Viewing Angle (L/R;U/D): (CR>=10) 140 / 130

·  Contrast Ratio: 500:1

·  Brightness: 400 cd/m2

·  Response time: 8 ms
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: ajk on September 07, 2010, 06:52:39 PM
It doesn't need to be, you can either use the "Sample data" button to query your monitor for details, or just enter the information manually on the right hand side.

Then after that you can press "Continue" and you'll see a list of the defined modes on the right side and various presets on the left side. If the selected modes have a refreshing rate of something like 100Hz, that is most likely the problem.

Press "Continue" again and you will then be able to edit all of the modes. Basically you just need to turn the "Scan rate" to something like 60Hz (or whatever your monitor supports) and then test the display settings to see if it works.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 07:10:29 PM
Sample Data detected my monitor , even make and model :)
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 07, 2010, 07:14:53 PM
I cant get the second part.. When i press continue i have the Active display modes.

PAL (Flicker Fixer , 49 HZ, 31 `khz)
NTSC (flicker fixer 59, 31)

and a bunch of picassoiv resolutions
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: ajk on September 07, 2010, 07:29:58 PM
Do you see something like:

PicassoIV:1024x768(16M, 60Hz, 48kHz)  ?

There will probably be a bunch of these lines for the different modes. It's the value with "Hz" that is interesting, if that is above or below what your monitor can handle, the mode isn't going to be displayed.

You could basically delete all modes except the flicker fixer modes and a couple of the 1280x1024 modes from the list, if it's bothering you that there are so many, but it's not necessary.

In any case you can go on to the last screen with Continue, you'll then be able to select any of the modes in the drop-down menu and change the refresh rate setting. Once it's set to something that the monitor can handle, you can test that it definitely works by testing "Test computed display settings". If you see an image with the offending monitor, you can save the changes, if not, press space or some other key to get back into the editor.

There shouldn't be much cable swapping once you get at least one mode working and set Workbench to use that.

Oh, and "PAL ... 49Hz" would explain why that doesn't work; it's clearly out of bounds for your monitor (56-76Hz).
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: zipper on September 07, 2010, 07:43:10 PM
You can edit those PAL  and NTSC flickerfixer modes upto 160 Hz.
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: dougal on September 08, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Ok... in TNG i managed to detect the LCD and change a setting to 57Hz and the test worked and gave a perfect display on the LCD.

But after i reconnected the crt to save etc... I still cant find the 57z resolution on the display in prefs..

what have i missed?
Title: Re: P IV and LCD Monitor trouble
Post by: ajk on September 08, 2010, 11:54:01 AM
You need to press the "keep computed settings" (or something to that effect) button and then save all the settings in the menus before you exit. I can't check the exact names of the menu items right now, but you should be able to figure it out. Almost there :)