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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: strim on August 19, 2010, 03:09:23 PM
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Hello Amigadudes.
I'd really like to use ZorRAM in my A3000. In fact, I already ordered one :) . I have vague memory of AmigaKit site stating that ZorRAM is incompatible with Buster 9. But now there's information that ZorRAM is compatible only with Buster 11. Or maybe my memory is playing tricks on me...
Until recenty my Amiga was equipped with Buster 9. This setup was unstable, so I replaced it with Buster 7, and everything works just fine. I have 16MHz model of A3000, which is supposedly incompatible with Buster 11 (due to Buster 11 inability to run at 16MHz). So I probably can't upgrade it.
Anyone care to elaborate on this? Will I be able to use ZorRAM with Buster 7? Could installation of 25MHz A3640 card make it possible to install Buster 11?
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Hey,
I just went through this. I got B11 and B11 works with ZoroRam and Deneb in my A3000D. Got the B11 from A.K. Any one else here with a 16Mhz A3000 ?
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I don't know what the facts are, only my observations.
In my Buster9 A4000, zorram did not work.
In my Buster9 A3000 it worked fine...
So it's not strictly an incompatability with Buster9.
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Hello Amigadudes.
I'd really like to use ZorRAM in my A3000. In fact, I already ordered one :) . I have vague memory of AmigaKit site stating that ZorRAM is incompatible with Buster 9. But now there's information that ZorRAM is compatible only with Buster 11. Or maybe my memory is playing tricks on me...
Until recenty my Amiga was equipped with Buster 9. This setup was unstable, so I replaced it with Buster 7, and everything works just fine. I have 16MHz model of A3000, which is supposedly incompatible with Buster 11 (due to Buster 11 inability to run at 16MHz). So I probably can't upgrade it.
Anyone care to elaborate on this? Will I be able to use ZorRAM with Buster 7? Could installation of 25MHz A3640 card make it possible to install Buster 11?
Actually I just read on AmigaKit's website that Buster revision 11 is required...not sure why.
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I don't know what the facts are, only my observations.
In my Buster9 A4000, zorram did not work.
In my Buster9 A3000 it worked fine...
So it's not strictly an incompatability with Buster9.
Strange...and what is the result with A3000+Buster09+DENEB+ZORRAM ?
I still have big problem with A3000+Buster07/09/11+DENEB (perhaps only software pbs)!!!
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It wasn't the Deneb that caused me issues.
The Deneb worked fine on both machines, but I don't remember trying it with the zorram.
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It wasn't the Deneb that caused me issues.
The Deneb worked fine on both machines, but I don't remember trying it with the zorram.
Wouldn't the big trick to run with both? AFAIK the issue is mainly with Zorro3 bus master cards and bugs in the Buster that give issues when multiple bus masters are present. I recall this causing compatibility issues and that Buster11 was the best chip (but not error free)...
Methinks Deneb runs in Z3 bus master mode...
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I don't know. Deneb wasn't the focus for me.
A4k, buster9, zorram, no other cards present = Red Early Startup, board failed.
A3k, buster9, zorram, no other cards present = works
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"Buster revision 11 is required." - AmigaKit
Yeah, does say that. Funny, when you get the Zororam, the instructions never really mentioned it. Just have a free ZIII slot. Hmmm
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Deneb can run in DMA or PIO mode. DMA mode doesn't work with onboard or Zorro III SCSI due to Super Buster limitations.
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Deneb can run in DMA or PIO mode. DMA mode doesn't work with onboard or Zorro III SCSI due to Super Buster limitations.
offtopic, apologies. But does "onboard SCSI" include the SCSI in the A3000? Eg. is DMA mode of the Deneb supported on the A3000?
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offtopic, apologies. But does "onboard SCSI" include the SCSI in the A3000?
Yes, unfortunately.
Eg. is DMA mode of the Deneb supported on the A3000?
Yes, but only with CPU board SCSI. More than a single bus master messes up the Buster.
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Buster 11 has it's own strange caveats.
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A4000D(Buster11) + Blizzard 4030/50MHz + IndivisonAGA + Mediator4000Di (WinSize 512MB) + Radeon 256MB (with automatic Monitorswitch) + Realtek8139C + Deneb (FirmwareV9) + ZorRam 256MB = working
... but now i am running out of ZIII-ConfigSpace ... $4000.0000 - $7fff.ffff :-P
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My ZorRAM arrived today! Postal service literally massacred the package :angry:. Fortunately card was packaged very carefully and is not damaged.
I installed it immediately and tested extensively for a few hours. Looks like I was worried needlessly, because it works great even with Buster 7 :).
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A4000D(Buster11) + Blizzard 4030/50MHz + IndivisonAGA + Mediator4000Di (WinSize 512MB) + Radeon 256MB (with automatic Monitorswitch) + Realtek8139C + Deneb (FirmwareV9) + ZorRam 256MB = working
... but now i am running out of ZIII-ConfigSpace ... $4000.0000 - $7fff.ffff :-P
You need a beefier CPU in there ;) Otherwise you are good. how did you do the automatic monitor switch for the Radeon?
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My ZorRAM arrived today! Postal service literally massacred the package :angry:. Fortunately card was packaged very carefully and is not damaged.
I installed it immediately and tested extensively for a few hours. Looks like I was worried needlessly, because it works great even with Buster 7 :).
Perfect! Buster7 is the best! :)
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B7 works, that is good to know. I wondered about this. Enjoy!
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You need a beefier CPU in there ;) Otherwise you are good. how did you do the automatic monitor switch for the Radeon?
I send my defective CyberstormPPC to Vesa... in 2001 and it never returned.
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19230
(my selfmade monitorswitch based on the stmav340-referencedesign)
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I send my defective CyberstormPPC to Vesa... in 2001 and it never returned.
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19230
(my selfmade monitorswitch based on the stmav340-referencedesign)
Your monitor switch looks awesome :) Does it fit in normal A4000 case if that radeon is connected to the Mediator? I have what it looks like exact same Radeon card... :)
By the way, yesterday I put a Sapphire PCI Radeon 9250 256MB into my A4000 Mediator system and it worked! Much to my surprise ;)
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Just so you guys know we have 1 Buster 11 chip left in stock fresh system pull for sale if you are interested pm me. Its a good idea in General to have a Buster 11 in your a3k or a4k as it improves many things on the bus... with a lot less bugs and more speed. As shown in this thread many of the high end zorro 3 cards need buster 11 to run correctly!
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Your monitor switch looks awesome :) Does it fit in normal A4000 case if that radeon is connected to the Mediator? I have what it looks like exact same Radeon card... :)
By the way, yesterday I put a Sapphire PCI Radeon 9250 256MB into my A4000 Mediator system and it worked! Much to my surprise ;)
Switch to Page 3 (Seite 3) on that thread and you will see the Radeon inside the A4000D-housing.
Alternativ ... http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=360634&postcount=79
( The free PCI-Slot between Radeon and Network/USB is reserved for a PCI-Soundcard. But I need a card with OpenPCI-Support .. FM801 or is the SB128 fully supported by OpenPCI? )
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Just so you guys know we have 1 Buster 11 chip left in stock fresh system pull for sale if you are interested pm me. Its a good idea in General to have a Buster 11 in your a3k or a4k as it improves many things on the bus... with a lot less bugs and more speed. As shown in this thread many of the high end zorro 3 cards need buster 11 to run correctly!
For all the google-translaters .. on a1k exist a thread about the deneb and technical details about diferences between buster 9 and buster 11.
It seems to be, that ONLY buster 9 is able to handle TWO ZIII-cards in DMA-mode.
But it needs some workarounds to fix some timing problems, Deneb firmware can handle ist.
Buster11 is fixed in some issues but is only able to handle ONE ZIII-card in DMA-mode.
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Its a good idea in General to have a Buster 11 in your a3k or a4k as it improves many things on the bus...
Unless you have a 16MHz A3000.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=318304#post318304
http://www.magneticsystems.org
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@strim, I hope it's still going well. Congrat's, Good outcome.
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Switch to Page 3 (Seite 3) on that thread and you will see the Radeon inside the A4000D-housing.
Alternativ ... http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=360634&postcount=79
( The free PCI-Slot between Radeon and Network/USB is reserved for a PCI-Soundcard. But I need a card with OpenPCI-Support .. FM801 or is the SB128 fully supported by OpenPCI? )
Very nice. I like how you have saved a PCI slot by putting the Deneb USB connectors and realtek 8139 card on the same backplane. Good stuff.
Unfortunately for my A4000 (which is very similar to yours with Mediator PCI/4000i and Deneb), I often switch between OS 3.9BB4 and OS 4.0 so I don't put in a realtek 8139.
I have to keep the cards that are compatible with both OS 3.9 and OS 4.0 in the system.
So right now I have:
Voodoo 3 PCI (with fan - that chip gets VERY hot)
Realtek 8029
Deneb
ZorRAM 256MB
Those cards all either work in OS 4.0 or don't conflict with it, so when I switch between OS 3.9 and OS 4.0 I don't have to change any hardware.
I also don't like how the Radeon doesn't support Warp3D...too bad really :(
Otherwise for sure I'd prefer to leave my Radeon 9250 PCI 256MB in there...
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For all the google-translaters .. on a1k exist a thread about the deneb and technical details about diferences between buster 9 and buster 11.
It seems to be, that ONLY buster 9 is able to handle TWO ZIII-cards in DMA-mode.
But it needs some workarounds to fix some timing problems, Deneb firmware can handle ist.
Buster11 is fixed in some issues but is only able to handle ONE ZIII-card in DMA-mode.
I wish some enterprising individual would make a new Buster Rev.12 to fix all the lame bugs and limitations and make it faster....single DMA busmaster sucks (not to mention, it would be nice if Zorro 3 was faster.
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@strim, I hope it's still going well. Congrat's, Good outcome.
Sure, my Amiga is very stable and having this much RAM is amazing :afro: .
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I send my defective CyberstormPPC to Vesa... in 2001 and it never returned.
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19230
(my selfmade monitorswitch based on the stmav340-referencedesign)
is that monitor switch auto switching. i have a monitor switch built into the A1200 motherboard and switch between Indivision & Bvision.
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I wish some enterprising individual would make a new Buster Rev.12 to fix all the lame bugs and limitations and make it faster....single DMA busmaster sucks (not to mention, it would be nice if Zorro 3 was faster.
One can dream :)
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HammerD
I'm jeoulous of your classic a4k setup! I used to have a amiga tech 4000T w phase ppc and cybervisionppc but sold it when I got into pegasos. Boy i'd love to have that thing back! how is the ZoroRam board compared to say a DKB 3128 >?
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how is the ZoroRam board compared to say a DKB 3128 >?
Erm, the same? Cept DKB 3128 works in all Amiga's regardless of buster?
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Compared to the DKB3128, the new ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958) is cheaper than many DKB3128s sold second hand on Ebay. ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958) is also available in 256MB version and available new with warranty. ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958) uses SDRAM technology rather than SIMMs
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Guys, any comment on Buster 7 compatibility?
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Guys, any comment on Buster 7 compatibility?
Yes, only one: get a Buster 11 :-)
We haven't tested with Buster 7 - I think I have at least one crouching around in my spare part stuff, but Buster 7 is definitely outdated. My spare part is just for historical interests :-)
Michael
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Yes, only one: get a Buster 11 :-)
We haven't tested with Buster 7 - I think I have at least one crouching around in my spare part stuff, but Buster 7 is definitely outdated. My spare part is just for historical interests :-)
Ok, I will acquire one, but I'm not sure if it will work in my A3000 (16MHz model).
Now my A3000 is equipped with ZorRAM, Deneb and A3640. This configuration is completly stable since I downgraded from Buster 9 to 7.
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A Buster 11 will reportedly not work at 16 MHz! According to Dave Haynie, it was neither designed nor tested for that speed.
You'll need to upgrade to 25 MHz (which I would've done long ago) - but why change anything when it's working fine?
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Yes, only one: get a Buster 11 :-)
We haven't tested with Buster 7 - I think I have at least one crouching around in my spare part stuff, but Buster 7 is definitely outdated. My spare part is just for historical interests :-)
Michael
Hi Michael, you mention V10 Deneb firmware on your site in the FAQ? I assume this will come out at some point soon?
Also, I have two ZorRAM cards - how do I tell if they are affected by the Buster 9 problem?
Not that it really matters for me, my three A4000 systems have Buster-11.
Is there any remote possibility of making a buster-12 ? Fix the stupid bugs and faster would be nice. I mean, it can't be too complex of a chip nowadays...
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A Buster 11 will reportedly not work at 16 MHz! According to Dave Haynie, it was neither designed nor tested for that speed.
You'll need to upgrade to 25 MHz (which I would've done long ago) - but why change anything when it's working fine?
Actually A3640 is clocked at 25MHz, but I don't know if Buster is using the same clock signal. If it is then my problem is solved :afro:.
Upgrading to Buster 11 does have some sense, because Buster 7 does not support DMA, and DMA is always a nice thing (especially with slow CPUs).
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Actually A3640 is clocked at 25MHz, but I don't know if Buster is using the same clock signal. If it is then my problem is solved :afro:.
Sorry, missed that. The A3640 runs the board at 25 MHz, so it should be fine with the Buster 11 - but you should keep it in the back of your head in case you remove the '040 one day. ;)
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HammerD
I'm jeoulous of your classic a4k setup! I used to have a amiga tech 4000T w phase ppc and cybervisionppc but sold it when I got into pegasos. Boy i'd love to have that thing back! how is the ZoroRam board compared to say a DKB 3128 >?
Both my ZorRAM cards (I have two - one 128MB and one 256) work fine.
They aren't very fast because of Zorro 3 limitations, you'll max out at around 10MB/sec. But it's nice to have nonetheless. Better than trying to find a used DKB3128 which is next to impossible.
As for my setups, yes they are nice. I have actually three systems near identical setups, all with CS PPC's, two 233MHz versions and one 200MHz version upgraded to 366MHz ;)
And a CD32/SX32, but I have to admit that doesn't get much use :(
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So a ZorRAM has same read and write speed as a DKB3128?
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So a ZorRAM has same read and write speed as a DKB3128?
Well, I would expect that the limiting factor is going to be the bus in both cases.
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So all things being equal....they are equal (if you know what I mean)?
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So all things being equal....they are equal (if you know what I mean)?
I expect so. Except you can get ZorRAM new...
Actually, one difference I observed when the showconfig output was posted was that several ZorRAM modules together formed a single contiguous block of memory, IIRC your experiments with the DKB seemed to have holes in the address range.
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Yep, the DKBs don't like to be in adjacent slots.
I don't know if Doobrey wants to comment further...
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From what i read, ZorRAM works with buster 7, I am thinking of getting the 128 meg version within the next 2 months.. Is there anyone here running ZorRAM on a a3000D 030/25 with a buster 7 that confirm this?
lost
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I don't know what the facts are, only my observations.
In my Buster9 A4000, zorram did not work.
In my Buster9 A3000 it worked fine...
So it's not strictly an incompatability with Buster9.
It's the combination of Bridgette and Buster 9. Buster 9 has "wrong timings" compared to Bridgette, while Buster 11 has the "correct" timings compared to Bridgette. I.e. control signals of Buster 9 are "too fast" compared to the data path through bridgette.
A3000 has no bridgette.
Michael
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The Deneb worked fine on both machines, but I don't remember trying it with the zorram.
DENEB needs to take care of certain Buster "features" for DMA issues, timing is much more relaxed than in ZorRAM case. DENEB PIO must work in both Buster 9 and 11 setups (and is know to, except for certain issues being discussed on a1k.org, mainly related to 68ec030 issues, mainly concerned is the A3630).
Michael
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I recall this causing compatibility issues and that Buster11 was the best chip (but not error free)...
Buster 11, DENEB and DMA will lead to lockups in hardware if ZorRAM is being used heavily.
This is a "feature" of Buster 11, a remnant of the famous Buster 9 lockup which was claimed to be removed while stepping to rev11. It is still there, harder to trigger, but it will hit you just as a matter of time and statistics.
But: I have written a new firmware for DENEB which can cope with that situation. The DENEB FPGA takes over some buster work, and allows (according to all our tests in lab and at customers) stable operation of DENEB DMA and Zorro III RAM.
Firmware is available on request for testing, and will be published as free upgrade for all DENEB customers as time permits (i.e. I need to find some time to recompile the FPGA sources in a cleaned up version :-) )
Michael
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I installed it immediately and tested extensively for a few hours. Looks like I was worried needlessly, because it works great even with Buster 7 :).
;-) Buster 7 lacks all DMA support, and therefore also almost all DMA related "features" found in Buster 9 and 11.
Michael
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It seems to be, that ONLY buster 9 is able to handle TWO ZIII-cards in DMA-mode.
But it needs some workarounds to fix some timing problems, Deneb firmware can handle ist.
Buster11 is fixed in some issues but is only able to handle ONE ZIII-card in DMA-mode.
Buster 9 can handle two DMA controllers on Zorro III if both of them keep to some rules (i.e. Fastlane Z3 and DENEB as only working combination, no A4091, no A4kT onboard SCSI).
Buster 11 is more complicated. One DMA controller works fine as long as no Zorro III based RAM is available, with Zorro III RAM being present the new DENEB firmware is needed.
More DMA controllers should be possible, but this would need a small hack on DENEB, and even a more refined DENEB FPGA firmware.
Michael
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Erm, the same? Cept DKB 3128 works in all Amiga's regardless of buster?
It works as long as you don't do DMA on Zorro III. Zorro III lockup will also occur with DKB3128 and Buster 11 if Zorro III DMA is being used.
Buster 11 doesn't care about the manufacturer of the Zorro memory board :-(
Michael
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;-) Buster 7 lacks all DMA support, and therefore also almost all DMA related "features" found in Buster 9 and 11.
So, in a nutshell - ZorRAM is fine with Buster 7? As is Deneb (PIO only)?
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Over the weekend I was able to get the Zorram and Deneb both working in my buster9 A4k.
Regardless of the zorro slots used, if the deneb and zorram were in two adjacent slots, it would not work.
With the two separated by my GVP Spectrum card, they work great.
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A Buster 11 will reportedly not work at 16 MHz! According to Dave Haynie, it was neither designed nor tested for that speed.
You'll need to upgrade to 25 MHz (which I would've done long ago) - but why change anything when it's working fine?
I just put a Buster 11 in my 16mhz Amiga 3000 and it works just fine?. I haven't done any heavy testing yet but it booted right up.
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I just put a Buster 11 in my 16mhz Amiga 3000 and it works just fine?. I haven't done any heavy testing yet but it booted right up.
Still working when you got home? knock on wood... :)
@CSixx, that's curious. Is there any difference to the slots really? One more important than the other? Or is it just the way DMA looked at the cards?
EDIT - Oh well you did say DMA, I see.
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@CSixx, that's curious. Is there any difference to the slots really? One more important than the other? Or is it just the way DMA looked at the cards?
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I'm assuming it's an autoconfig issue because when the two cards are next to eachother, I get a red early startup screen complaining that the zorram is defective.
I don't know much about how all these things work, but I'm happy to have both working nicely now :)
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So, in a nutshell - ZorRAM is fine with Buster 7? As is Deneb (PIO only)?
so ditto on this one..I don't care about dma right now, that will be the future, so then i works ok with buster 7 I take it? anyone?
lost
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Still working when you got home? knock on wood... :)
@CSixx, that's curious. Is there any difference to the slots really? One more important than the other? Or is it just the way DMA looked at the cards?
EDIT - Oh well you did say DMA, I see.
@TheGoose,
No, I haven't rebooted it since then. It did work once though so that means it works right?. :)
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Woot ordered my ZorRAM yesterday!!!! Can't wait :) Next on the list is usb!
Pimping that a3k!
lost
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WOOT it came in yesterday and installed the zorram today! Installed and running fine!!!!
lol now what to do!!! Funny though fast ram is showing 137 megs...
lost
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WOOT it came in yesterday and installed the zorram today! Installed and running fine!!!!
lol now what to do!!! Funny though fast ram is showing 137 megs...
lost
Nice ! Run some speed tests on it let us know how fast it is :)
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OK, I was wrong on this!. After further testing my 16mhz 030 Amiga 3000 will not see zorro cards with a Buster 11 installed!. I'm going to put my Buster 07 back in and confirm this...
I just put a Buster 11 in my 16mhz Amiga 3000 and it works just fine?. I haven't done any heavy testing yet but it booted right up.
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OK, I was wrong on this!. After further testing my 16mhz 030 Amiga 3000 will not see zorro cards with a Buster 11 installed!. I'm going to put my Buster 07 back in and confirm this...
Same here. I bought a Buster 11 for my A3000 not knowing about the 16 MHz issue and lost the ability to see Zorro cards. I put back the Buster 9 and have had no problems with a phase5 Fastlane Z3 (although I only use it for the memory, not for the SCSI).
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Why don't you guys with 16 MHz A3000's just over-clock them to 20 MHz? I had no problems with Super Buster rev 11 when my A3000 motherboard was running @ 20 MHz! You might be surprised to find they may even run at 25 MHz!
Why is it that ZorRam owners always talk about the quantity of their memory and not the speed of their memory? (not much to say I guess).
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The two 16 MHz A3000 I 'upgraded' (swapped oscillator and changed jumper settings) ran fine right away.
Why is it that ZorRam owners always talk about the quantity of their memory and not the speed of their memory? (not much to say I guess).
ZorRAM is the fastest you can get with Z3 RAM - somewhat slower than onboard but faster than DKB and Fastlane. Your best bet is an accelerator with RAM which will be way faster.
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Why don't you guys with 16 MHz A3000's just over-clock them to 20 MHz? I had no problems with Super Buster rev 11 when my A3000 motherboard was running @ 20 MHz! You might be surprised to find they may even run at 25 MHz!
Why is it that ZorRam owners always talk about the quantity of their memory and not the speed of their memory? (not much to say I guess).
Because too much ram is always better than not enough ram,even if it is slower In daily use you dont even notice
has anyone compared the remapped radeon ram to the zorams z3 ram for speed?
I would think the zoram should win.
mech