Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: Mika on December 12, 2002, 07:10:11 PM
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There are little things that make AmigaOS special to me...
That Ram disk icon...I love it!
...And I love seeing floppy/CD-Rom icon disappearing when removing the disk and popping up
again when reinserting...
And what about the Workbench title bar? Just a mouse click and the amount of free RAM is
shown for you there...what a beautiful scene!!!
Aaaaaahhh...
BUT...there are "big" things too.
Like AREXX, the command language that makes Amiga so powerfull...Just one button pushed and
Miami is made online and YAM will open!
And the OS in whole is so clear and simple. No hidden or locked doors.
Everything is open and well structured.
You control the computer, not vice versa...
Every little thing she does she does for me, yeah...
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And what about the Find program?
you can find new files that were added ten MINUTES ago.
i think windows is still stuck in days & months.
And Alias?
And Assign?
And.... :-)
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Well put Mika, couldn't have said it better myself
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The best thing I love about the Amiga is the VERY VERY fast bootup. I also like the little time it takes to load up applications. Unlike the PeeCees, they take up big amounts of memory and awhile to load up.... :-)
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I used to love the wacky large icons which used to be present on most disks.
I also love the fast boot times, and those Workbench hacks you used to get on coverdisks.
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I like the way that just about everything is configurable. You can almost guarantee that if you want something changing then theres a hack/program on aminet. No desktop/ system seems to be the same. This can be a disadvantage at times, but makes for a very personal system.
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And what about the Find program?
you can find new files that were added ten MINUTES ago.
i think windows is still stuck in days & months
umm...no, windows has and can still find things on the system that was put anywhere, with just a partial name or files containing certain text, or files that have just been modified, but I also like the find in Amiga os, it was a nice addition.
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Among other, previously mentioned things I like:
The fact that when you install something, you can usually
get rid of it very easily - often all is placed in a single
directory...
-> No bloody "un-install" scripts...
(the few things sometimes ending up in Libs: annoys
me though, all extras stuff needed by the program should be
installed with the program itself unless you explicitlty allow
otherwise. Oh...in a perfect world...).
.
SlimJim
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I was using Netscape on a Windows machine :-x about a year ago. In June, Netscape stopped (as an ISP) and gave way to AOL (crap).
I then switched to Compuserve (ok) after running the Un-Install shield in Windows 98.
I then decided to switch to Broadband.
I then find out that the machine seems convinced that I am still using Netscape.
I ran the un-install shield, but there are still traces of it on my system.
I uninstalled it in June!!!
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1. my windows machine boots from power button to desktop in under 30 seconds.
2. dont ever ever ever use a "portal" ISP like compuserve/aol to get online. use a proper bloody net account where you *just* dial in!
3. dont install stuff... if you reformat your PC's HD every so often then copy all your old stuff to a backup drive/partition, lots more things than you would think (e.g. netscape 7.0, quicktime 5+) can be copied from your backup to anywhere you like and just run .. psudeo amiga style
4. have a big drive/partition and copy your drivers and install cds to it... that way when you do reformat everything is ready to rumble on F: (or wherever) and you dont need to find a single floppy or CD (including windows!)
5. drag and drop, it works 10 times better on a PC than on an amiga (but non-ex-amigans haven't noticed) try using windows explorer to select multiple image files and dropping them onto the photoshop icon... it works a treat! ... oh yeah, and use windows explorer , it's bloody fantastic and ive been polling the guys at dopus to make something similar for el nuevo dopus.
6. set your swap file to 512 mb *fixed* size, and then defrag ... if you use a norton defragger it'll even put your swap file at the start of the drive .. = much faster windows
7. have 512 mb of ram too
8. and when you've done all that, boot your amiga and play doom on it instead... that and octamed are pretty much all i use it for! hehe
9. oh yeah, things i like about the PC that the amiga SHOULD do (just to be contentious, why am i in this mood today?)
9.a. global windows meta copy buffer... copy and paste anything from one program to another and if you do it cunningly enough it will do a reasonable job of it (text formatting, or putting things into spreadsheets) .. you cant even copy between progs in amiga (yeah i know there's stuff on aminet)
9.b. global shortcuts ... CTRL+C = copy , CTRL+V = paste, CTRL+X = cut, CTRL+N = new, CTRL+S = save, CTRL+A = select all , CTRL+Z = undo ... when using windows at high speed keep one finger of your left hand on ctrl and the rest poised to do the above, you can move at lightning speed.. but on the amiga? i have to use both hands to use both amiga keys and they're differeent for every bloody program
9.c. drag and drop (see above)
9.d. program files, my documents, windows, control panel... if you do things properly (my my documents is mapped to a different partition for example) then these are the only things you usually need to know about... in amiga you have prefs/ tools/ utils/ expansion/ workbench: sys: work: commodities/ etc/ etc/ etc/ argh! how am i supposed to find abything? and what does "work" mean wnyway? why not sys: programs: and data: ??? (still its not as stupid as linux, anyone know what bin/ usr/ fck/ xbd/ bsd/ etc/ is supposed to mean? i have a degree in physics and linux still confuses me with its instistence on being convoluted)
9.e. "retrace"
9.f. the API (including direct x) ... yup ... i'm only just coming around to this but imagine it.. an API where you can say "play this sound a bit over to the left" and it does it... no configging every individual app for AHI/native/zorro/etc. it just goes , it just does.. but i do prefer opengl for 3d mind ... i'm currently doing 3d games coding on the PC for a laugh and by using API stuff i dont need to mess about creating a bloody
startup dialogue!
cycloid
original ZX81 games coder at the age of 4 and aint stopped since and still loves his miggy
(insert flame here)
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@mika
So true, so beautiful... Than you for sharing this with us.
I truly hope we all one day have experience like that. Once again.
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@cycloid
Well said,
2. dont ever ever ever use a "portal" ISP like compuserve/aol to get online. use a proper bloody net account where you *just* dial in!
Yeah never use the ISP`s software which a lot still lie about, I use NTL broadband 600k and they insisted i had to use their CD to get it up and running, total load of crap, just open up a web browser type "Start.html" register and reset the set top box and away you go.
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Every little thing she does... -refering to Amiga
V.S
Every little thing it does...(sounds ugly) -refering to PC
And yes, ughhh... I own PC also from now...but
it was just 180 EURO for PIII 800Mhz,768(3x256)MB SDRAM,
Ati 16MB. Complete computer without monitor. To good bargain
to let it go away. 2x256MB will go into Something Amigish...
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Rock on y'all! defend the faith!
Amiga is #1!
it gives you more for less, there is no doubt about it (apart amongst the seriously ingorant)
there is so many aspects of glory...i will choose...
i am still amazed today at how much digital entertainment was managed to be stuffed into a single self-boot disk! especially all those demos
it is a mind boggle to witness the high quality
experience that demands a mere 1mg ram! while unachievable with tenfold of that and more elsewhere. not to mention that it was all soley done using essentially the same machine. can the same be said for instance about gamecube x-box or?
while some of it is far from impressive today (the end results), it is still amazing what was accomplished the production+the requirements of the end results.
the power of the amiga has always been, to me, in the production side. becasue on the playback/consumer side there is considerably less discrimination required. that will change too (or should...)
the most exiting prospects today is to envision that same effecient use of instruction on top of having available abundance of hardware backing :-P
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Well you can always copy to Ram:
in one document
fire up second Program and load whatever you saved into ram:
fire up third/fourth/fifth/sixth/seventh/eigth/ninth etc...
Proggie (All at the same time) and access, or even drag & drop into / out of Ram:
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1-. My Amiga Machine can be Booted & shutdown also in less than half of your boot time ;)
2-.No matter what software ISP provides,Miami,Genesis or Roadshow run
it fine ;)
3-.Same,Maybe faster & easier here.No need of reformating unless Upgrading
newer HD.
4-.It Can Be done also with the OS partition.Updates & drivers included.
No need to reinstalling.
5-.Drag & drop works here perfectly,also with ASL requesters.
6-.Virtual memory not needed ;)
7-.Less memory works well also.
8-.You can do some Art as well without Photoshop.
Art Effect,Photogenics,PerfectPaint,DiamondBox,FXPAint
9-.Shortcuts here on amiga too and most of programs do well,Amiga C,Amiga V,Amiga X,
10-.Work? what work: you can rename it as you want and set up your partitions as you like
not needed to set an specific config,and For drawers on Sys: partition,you cannot also
complain about /windows/system files,but more accurate and well known: fonts,Libs,etc ;)
11-.Warp3d,OpenGL have their own implementations here as well
12-.No,Zero EULA files out/deleted from your computer by someone
Amiga Still roolz!!
Started new flame war to non-MOS Campers ;)
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Hey,Just noticed my first gained Boing Cube ;)
Nice!!!
:hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:
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"there is no better OS in the world for sitting down, taking a massive bong rip and getting a little crazy with. Amiga is #1 beyond doubt!" , 420Dude
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I can't even put my fingers on what is so great about it other than all of the little things.
It just feels right. I tend to get extremely frustrated after working with other OSs for extended periods of time. Whenever I boot up my Amiga it just feels like home.
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9.d.
Actually, if Amiga were done Microsoft's way, your system would look like
this:
Relabel SYS: C
MakeDir C:Windows
Assign LIBS: C:Windows
Assign DEVS: C:Windows
Assign FONTS: C:Windows/Fonts
Assign L: C:Windows
Assign ENV: C:Windows
Assign ENVARC: C:Windows
Assign S: C:Windows
Assign T: C:Windows/Temp
Assign MUI: C:Windows
Assign Internet: C:Windows
Assign #?DamnNearEverything#? C:Windows
MakeDir "C:Program Files" ; Let's put a space in a drawer name!
Assign Work: "C:Program Files"
:-D
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Something else Windows needs to fix is the way the Apply gadget works.
Hitting Apply shouldn't make the change permanent. When I hit Apply
and I don't like the change, hitting "Cancel" should revert to the previous
settings.
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Better yet: Have these choices instead...
Use / Test / Cancel
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..is tragic? probably applies to the PC better :-)
my point about tools/utils/etc. was that when i first got my 1200 HD going with 3.1 (this was about 4 years ago) i had no idea where to find anything... it's probably a bit moot because that was before we all got used to start menus.
it IS a bit annoying that when you open a file requester there are a million Assigns thrown at you (before i run scripts for things like vbcc too!), some assumed tree logic might have been a little nicer, e.g. SYS:c/ SYS:libs/ SYS:devs/ etc. instead of assigning them all... so they'd still not suffer the c:/windows/bloat problem but at the same time it wouldnt be as scary when all tyou want to do is find something... ?
i just thought of something!!
how about a very clever file reqester that can not only hide system files but also has the option to hide system assigns (apart from SYS:)
assigns are the best thing in the universe never to be copied by the PC though... it's so nice to not have to make a distinction between a pointer, a folder or a volume! dontchathink?
cycloid
turbo amiga nutter:
www.cycloid.biz/junk/amiga3.jpg
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1. my windows machine boots from power button to desktop in under 30 seconds.
I have really hard to believe that you included the detect of hd, ram and such.... But anyways, so WHAT? My amiga boots in less than 5sec and its clocked at 7mhz!! :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P
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and yeah the ram disk!! aaaahh i love that feature.
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@cycloid
1. Mine used to get 20 seconds ;) (and if we're comparing fastest with fastest, I'm sure I've heard reports of more like 5-10 seconds on some Amigas).
5. It's more a limitation of implementation of the programs (especially Workbench, which doesn't seem to like opening multiple files) than a limitation of drag and drop. Dragging/dropping multiple files is certainly possible.
9a Um, yes you can copy between Amiga programs, without additional utilities. It's true that copying of non-text data isn't as well supported. Though at the same time, I feel this is badly implemented in Windows in that copying unformatted text (which I need 99% of the time) isn't the default, I have to go through a menu option then selecting through a window, where as it'd be one keypress on the Amiga.
9b. Er, replace Control with the Amiga key, and you have the Amiga's standard shortcuts. Maybe some programs, especially ten year old ones, do something different, but it's the same on Windows if programmers wish to be awkward.
9d. 'Prefs' is equivalent to 'Control Panel'. 'Sys' is equivalent to 'C:'. I don't know where you get Workbench and Work from; these simply don't exist. They're common choices for names of different partitions, but then you can have more than one partition on Windows. The only point here is that there is some redundancy between tools, utils and commodities, and that expansion seems to be useless (?), so I would agree that this situation should be cleaned up.
9f. Well you don't code for AHI/native/zorro/etc, because AHI *is* the API, and that will redirect to wherever is necessary. There is some OpenGL support in the form of Mesa (I'm doing some OpenGL stuff on Windows too, and porting it back over to the Amiga is pretty easy, without needing to create startup dialogues). Also there are other APIs, such as SDL. Certainly it's true that the APIs that Amiga has are fewer and less developed than Windows has, but you seem to think that the Amiga doesn't have anything at all here.. As for startup dialogues, some Amiga authors like to cater for more than one API and offer a choice, but this happens on Windows too.
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Ami603 wrote:
1-. My Amiga Machine can be Booted & shutdown also in less than half of your boot time ;)
Must be nice. It takes my A3k more than a minute to even start booting. :-o
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my point about the boot time was a PC thing, yeah that includes everything including me hitting the return key real quick when the network login box comes up. i was making a point though that PCs CAN work fast and efficiently if you just look after them and that getting amiga to be friendly is no easy task either (what with having to "install" all sorts of garbage like MUI Classact fulpallet etc!) ... e.g. theree's nothing in my systray but the clock and the volume control, ive seen people with hundreds of dodgy little programs running in there! eek!
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I agree its the little things that are the best i like the way an amiga can be reset and rebooted more than 4 times when a pc has not even managed one :-D :-D :-D
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When I got my first Amiga, the best I liked about her was how easy it was to play games. My dad had a PC then, and when I wanted to play a game on his machine, I had to make all kinds of boot disks. EMS, XMS, Himem, Soundcard drivers, etc. etc. With the Amiga it was easy. Just pop in the game, turn on the computer and it works. If you wanted to play another game.... just pop in another disk and reset!! They should make something like that with CDs possible on the Amiga One.
One of the best utilities ever I think is SnoopDos. I don't think there's anything like that for Windows (I could be wrong though)
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!! They should make something like that with CDs possible on the Amiga One.
Now that is what I call a really stupid idea !!!
Self-booting games on the A500 were only possible, because back than
all Amigas shared the HW. Try booting Lotus on an A1200 :-x
Such a CD would need to have all drivers for all setups on board,
but what if in a few years time, some plugs a Radeon_25000
into it ? Don't expect it to run with the Radeon_xx00-drivers found
on the CD.
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Here's something I'd like to see in Windows file requestors... The ability to set the default view and file order. I prefer the detail view and sort by date or type. Unfortunately, every time a Windows file requestor pop up, it's stuck in list view and name sort.
The point is, both OS'es may have advantages over the one another, but they also have disadvantages. Personally I think the Amiga OS has more advantages than disadvantages... Including Assigns.
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Tomas wrote:
and yeah the ram disk!! aaaahh i love that feature.
Yeah! I can still remember when I discovered that I could load a disk or two of a Sierra or CinemaWare game into RAM and never have to swap disks!! Cool!(This was before I got an HD, of course, but it was still cool.)
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I like the way that just about everything is configurable. You can almost guarantee that if you want something changing then theres a hack/program on aminet. No desktop/ system seems to be the same. This can be a disadvantage at times, but makes for a very personal system.
Yes but this also has got me in trouble a few times. I hate when I mes with something, or install something and I cant "undo" it without having another disk to boot up to take out whatever it was I did. I've had to reinstall my WB a few times because of this.
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@N7VQM:
Did your cat slap you after you did that to it? :lol:
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cycloid wrote:
my point about the boot time was a PC thing, yeah
My PC's have reasonable boot-up and log on times, to me atleast. However, my Win2k machines rarely ever get (re)booted and, when they do, I tend to push the button, leave the room and forget I was planning to use the computer for something.
My Dad's PC OTOH, takes forever to boot! I built it this past weekend (Athlon 2000+, ect.) and the Win2k install was FAST. In 15 minutes, I had that puppy up and running, fully installed. But, reboot it and it sits at the Win2k splash screen for about 90 seconds.
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Billsey wrote:
Did your cat slap you after you did that to it? :lol:
Minnie did that all on her own. I was deciding on a tie to wear to an interview, and she stuck her head into the one I was holding. It struck me as amusing, so I took a picture. 8-)
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The thing I always liked was using the Amiga (and shift) buttons to control the pointer. Real handy when drawing and you need to get something in the right place. :-)
Before getting a hard drive I also used RAD a lot for Slam Tilt or anything that was on multiple disks.
For me the RAM disk is also invaluable (even better when using HappyENV!) :-D
The depth gadgets are something I could NEVER do without - either on the screen or on the windows. I was disappointed when I heard that the A1 won't have the screen depth gadget, so when I get one I guess I'll have to live without it. :-(
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one thing (that i can do on the amiga and in SuSe linux but) i have never managed on windows is to have an active app window behind a non-active one! it's so ******* infuriating having to shift winodws around because the one you are using always always always is the one on top! bah bah bah!
i like windows explorer and 99 times out of 10 use detail view with sort-by-date... but on windows XP when you sort by date and have newest at the top the bloody list of folders dissapears to the bottom! how **************** infuriating is that!??
as for the games-that-boot-from-cd/dvd idea how about a compromise... you turn on your ng amiga and the cd/dvd is in the drive, it notices this and gives you 5 seconds to choose NOT to boot the disc... then it does a simul-boot, loading the OS and it's drivers and API without the GUI and other features and then plugs them into the game... cunning no? after all if it's a true and beautifully modular system...
cyc
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I tried Linux, more than once. I'm very unsatisfied. different fily set-up, okay. Different commands, okay expectable, besides they're about the same as Unix, so doubly useful. Linux won't boot right though, I've tried many times, it hates my computer. (admittedly its not the most well organized computer ever though.... on the hardware side because I put it so much free/old stuff in it).
Windows does really stupid things with allowing so much bloody adware/un allowed downloads (security even though I use outlook :oops: , *runs behind his firewall* )
Windows Xp can load very quickly, especially if you don't let programs load when Windows start, which depsite what Windows says is Not centralized, nor easy. /usr well thats bad its very old legacy for some old programs that use it (why not let the programs make it when they do need it eh?)
Basically, Linux is unfriendly, very hard to learn, very hard to get running.
Windows is easy to learn (well to a certain point, then it equalizes, but that point is 10% of the osftware's capabilities and 90% of what I do) and windows is 'friendly' it's easier to install, just click yes. Windows falls down when it comes to elegant programming or stability or good use for a power user (as its so bulky).
I hope that OS 5.0 will be user friendly and still elegant. Also, the A1s seem to be in a Very good price range that should help Amiga. Now if only they made a 2 Ghz 2500$ computer, the G3's probably wouldn't even run Xp. :-D
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Roj wrote:
Something else Windows needs to fix is the way the Apply gadget works.
Hitting Apply shouldn't make the change permanent. When I hit Apply
and I don't like the change, hitting "Cancel" should revert to the previous
settings.
i thought cancel did revert to the previous?...
there should be a 'revert' button anyway!!