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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: sniken on July 15, 2010, 10:48:07 PM

Title: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 15, 2010, 10:48:07 PM
Hi!

I'm currently using ShapeShifter and MacOS7 successfully. I thought I 'd try installing MacOS8 (8.1). However, when booting it on my real Amiga (CSPPC & CVPPC with OS3.9 BoingBag 1-4) it crashes, hangs and then restarts my Amiga, when it's about to load the Finder. It makes no difference if I hold down SHIFT key to skip extensions. Also, the MacOS8 mode is set.

Running MacOS8 with the same settings in ShapeShifter in E-UAE works just fine, but crashes at loading Finder in BasiliskII for MacOS X and Amiga (real and E-UAE).

Any tip on where I should be looking for possible settings changes to make it work on the real Amiga?


Thanks.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: mpiva on July 15, 2010, 11:41:53 PM
I remember having similar problems when I tried installing 8.1 in Shapeshifter a long time ago.  From what I recall, 8.0 worked with no problems but I never could get 8.1 to install properly.  I think I might have been able to pseudo-install 8.1 by installing most of it's components manually overtop of my 8.0 install.  Also, I think I had slightly more success with Fusion than Shapeshifter.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: mechy on July 16, 2010, 05:04:04 AM
I managed to get macos8.1 to run under fusion 3.2 i think it was(maybe 3.1?),on my A4000 csppc. Never could get it to work on shapeshifter.I also seem to recall you had to install it for "any computer" and not a specific model like the quadras or it wouldn't work. its been a long time, hope this is correct information.

Mike
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: stefcep2 on July 16, 2010, 05:06:18 AM
I did get 8.1 to work on a 68060 Cyberstorm 2 A4000.  There is something in 8.1 which conflicts with 68060.  Unfortunately I don't remember what.  BUT 8.1 is MUCH slower than 8.0 and I couldn't see the benefits over 8.0  Sorry not much help I know, but it was such a long time ago.  It does work though.

Yes you need a "general" version of the OS installed, not a specific model one.  And the ROM matters as well.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on July 16, 2010, 06:31:22 AM
I was going to suggest the ROM. You can find a guide somewhere that tells you which MacOS works with which Mac computer (or rom). Sorry I don't have time to search for it.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: Piru on July 16, 2010, 06:45:12 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;570637
There is something in 8.1 which conflicts with 68060. Unfortunately I don't remember what.

68060 superscalar mode must be disabled:
Code: [Select]
cpu060 NOSUPERSCALAR
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: pVC on July 16, 2010, 07:39:19 AM
I'd remember that there was some mac networking component which caused problems with 8.1. Can't remember now which it was, but disabling it on MacOS helped :)
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: Seiya on July 16, 2010, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: sniken;570616
Hi!

I'm currently using ShapeShifter and MacOS7 successfully. I thought I 'd try installing MacOS8 (8.1). However, when booting it on my real Amiga (CSPPC & CVPPC with OS3.9 BoingBag 1-4) it crashes, hangs and then restarts my Amiga, when it's about to load the Finder. It makes no difference if I hold down SHIFT key to skip extensions. Also, the MacOS8 mode is set.



could be the rom_updates
try to disable it to try MacOS 8.1
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 16, 2010, 06:56:08 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I've been able to try some of the suggestions.

Fusion, 3.2, just spend ages trying to load the HD image without getting anywhere. Confusing configuration too.

I've tried installing with no network component that i could chose in the MacOS setup, but wouldn't skiping the extensions be as affective? Though, no luck.

I grabbed the 060 utility from phase5.a1k.org, setting NOSUPERSCALAR. It didn't help, unfortunately.

All rom updates are stored on my DENEB :) Holding down L-mouse button to disable them had no affect. I also tried a clean OS3.1 install and just enough libraries needed to get ShapeShifter going, still no good.

All the various MacOS8.1 installations I've done works well in ShapeShifter/E-UAE, but all fail when loading Finder in BasiliskII (also failing in MacOSX) or ShapeShifter.

I'll just continue with System 7.5.5 for now. Maybe MacOS7.6.1 would work, if only I could find anyone selling it.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: mpiva on July 16, 2010, 07:23:39 PM
I thought everything up to (but not including) MacOS8 was free to download from Apple.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 16, 2010, 07:29:51 PM
@mpiva

No, not all. However, System 7.5.5 is. http://lowendmac.com/macos.shtml
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: zipper on July 16, 2010, 07:56:18 PM
And update to 7.6.1 is somewhere, don't  remember where.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: ddniUK on July 16, 2010, 07:58:34 PM
IIRC ShapeShifter options include an OS8 mode switch. I think it is in the miscellaneous options page... Did you try it?
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 16, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
@zipper

The MacOS7.6.1 update is from MacOS7.6.0. AFAIK, there is no update from System 7.5.5 to MacOS7.6.0. Maybe to do with the name changing (System to MacOS) to kill off the clones.

@ddniUK

Yes. I stated this in my original post.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: zipper on July 17, 2010, 09:59:24 AM
Yes, probably I updated from 7.6 - can't remember; in every case 7.0 to 7.1 to 7.53 to7.55 to 7.6 to 7.61 a long chain. 7.6 is available at least here:
http://nbbemulation.free.fr/emumac/os7/OS76usa.zip and then update to 7.61 is easier to find.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: recidivist on July 17, 2010, 04:36:12 PM
&.5.5 and Netscape 3 were my tools  for the internet and other computing in 1997  and worked well.

Spent many hours playing original Warcraft on the Apple.

Anyone remember Cyberdog?
I thought it was pretty good at the time.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: ddniUK on July 17, 2010, 05:44:58 PM
ooops! Apologies, skim reading again!
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: Seiya on July 17, 2010, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: sniken;570711
I grabbed the 060 utility from phase5.a1k.org, setting NOSUPERSCALAR. It didn't help, unfortunately.


try to install Oxypatcher!!
should works with this one
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: Opus on July 18, 2010, 12:54:26 AM
I ran 7.6.1 on Shapeshifter with an 040 for quite a few years, loved it. I tried installing 8.1 (maybe 8.0, should have it here somewhere on CD) and never could get it to work =/  I tried Fusion as well as different copies of Macos and had Amiga people helping when we were abundant, still to no success.  Good luck and keep us all posted, maybe I'll try again if you have luck!
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: stefcep2 on July 18, 2010, 01:43:16 AM
I just remembered.  There is a something called "Rose" in 8.1 that you have to remove.  It might be an extension.  So if you can boot into 8.1 using shapeshifter under euae, then have a look for anything with "rose" in the name and remove it.

Re: 68060 superscalar.  I think you have to boot your amiga with that switch as the first line in startup-sequence.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: stefcep2 on July 18, 2010, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: Seiya;570845
try to install Oxypatcher!!
should works with this one


i don't think oxypatcher matters matters. AFAIR the superscalar switch was needed beacsue Apple never had 68060 support in any of its OS's, beacsue it went form 68040 to ppc.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 18, 2010, 07:15:38 PM
Been trying a little more to get MacOS 8.1 to work.


@Seiya
I do not have a copy of Oxyron Patcher, but i did try Cyber Patcher. However, the Amiga still reboots upon loading the MacOS Finder.

@stefcep2
Putting "cpu060 NOSUPERSCALAR" at the beginning of startup-sequence didn't help.

Regarding "rose" do you mean "A/ROSE" as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/ROSE ? I couldn't find any files with "rose" nor "prep" in the installation. I tried installing MacOS 8.1 again using custom install to see if I could see any reference to "rose", but I didn't. It may be labeled as something else?

I did try to boot with holding down SHIFT to stop extensions loading without it making  a difference.

@Opus
Yes, MacOS 7.6.1 works just fine, so ill probably leave it there for now.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: stefcep2 on July 19, 2010, 04:39:55 AM
Quote from: sniken;570917
Been trying a little more to get MacOS 8.1 to work.


@Seiya
I

@stefcep2
Putting "cpu060 NOSUPERSCALAR" at the beginning of startup-sequence didn't help.

Regarding "rose" do you mean "A/ROSE" as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/ROSE ? I couldn't find any files with "rose" nor "prep" in the installation. I tried installing MacOS 8.1 again using custom install to see if I could see any reference to "rose", but I didn't. It may be labeled as something else?


Yes.  I found this: http://hemmerling.free.fr/html/en/apple.html
Under the heading: "How to build MacOS 7.5.5 from scratch !" it specifically says that:

"You can do a full installation "Universal System for any Macintosh", but you must exclude the system extension "A/ROSE" for use with some Mac emulators like "Basilisk II". If you forget, the emulator crashes. Remember that by keeping the shift key pressed at startup, all extensions are disabled so that "A/Rose" can be safely moved out of the extensions folder."

BTW I was running AmigaOS 3.1 at the time, not 3.9.  It may/may not matter.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 19, 2010, 04:56:32 AM
If A/ROSE can be disabled by disabling extensions at startup then A/ROSE is not my problem since the ShapeShifter/Amiga still crashes. I can't find A/ROSE in any of my installations. I'll have another look, but again skipping extensions at boot hasn't helped.

For my MacOS7.6.1 installation BasiliskII/MacOSX crashes if I chose a 68040 emulation, but work ok with 68030 without FPU. ShapeShifter/E-UAE works with anything I've fed it.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: stefcep2 on July 20, 2010, 04:32:57 AM
Quote from: sniken;570977
If A/ROSE can be disabled by disabling extensions at startup then A/ROSE is not my problem since the ShapeShifter/Amiga still crashes. **I can't find A/ROSE in any of my installations.** I'll have another look, but again skipping extensions at boot hasn't helped.


 I had to do a Universal installation of MacOS 8.0 ( and then upgraded to 8.1) to boot into it.  When I installed MacOS 8.0 off the CD and did a universal installation I always ended up with A/Rose getting installed and having to be removed before I could boot.  The fact that you don't have A/Rose and you haven't removed it suggests that you might not  have a universal MacOS installation.  Or may be there are variations of MacOS 8.0 install CD's with variable compatibility under emulation.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: sniken on July 20, 2010, 08:36:23 AM
This MacOS 8.1 CD (I do not have a 8.0 CD) gives me the options to install a full clean install of MacOS 8.1 or upgrade.  I chose the clean install. Then a customized install selecting only the  "Mac OS 8.1" option (no Java, internet access, text-to-speach, etc). It gives med no further customize options unlike my MacOS7.6 or MacOS9 install where I had another option for universal install, this mac, and some other third option.

It could be that my media is for a specific Mac? I will need to get back to work to have a closer look at the CD. I might need a different MacOS8 media. A MacOS8.0 version and install the 8.1 upgrade from there.

Edit: Changing the CPU option in E-UAE changed the behavior of the install of MacOS. I'll examine it closer.

Edit: I did get the A/ROSE startup error this time and removed the extension, but still crashes when loading the Finder.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: stefcep2 on July 21, 2010, 12:51:20 AM
Quote from: sniken;571128
This MacOS 8.1 CD (I do not have a 8.0 CD) gives me the options to install a full clean install of MacOS 8.1 or upgrade.  I chose the clean install. Then a customized install selecting only the  "Mac OS 8.1" option (no Java, internet access, text-to-speach, etc). It gives med no further customize options unlike my MacOS7.6 or MacOS9 install where I had another option for universal install, this mac, and some other third option.

It could be that my media is for a specific Mac? I will need to get back to work to have a closer look at the CD. I might need a different MacOS8 media. A MacOS8.0 version and install the 8.1 upgrade from there.

Edit: Changing the CPU option in E-UAE changed the behavior of the install of MacOS. I'll examine it closer.

Edit: I did get the A/ROSE startup error this time and removed the extension, but still crashes when loading the Finder.

It could well be that your media is specific to a model or series of models of Mac, that would be my best guess.  I'm not sure about the 8.1 media, I only had  the 8.0 that came with an old powermac7220, and I later downloaded the 8.1 update off the Apple site.

its possible that the emulator NEEDS some extensions to run, whilst others cause it to crash.  If you disable all extensions on boot up, you might be disabling necessary as well as conflicting ones.  It might be a process of elimination to find the right mix.  The other thing that used to cause problems was cfm-68k runtime enabler-sometimes I needed installed, sometimes disabled.

AFAIR most of the additions that came with 8.1 applied to powermacs, and the only noticeable thing was that it was slower than 8.0.
Title: Re: ShapeShifter and MacOS8
Post by: Ratte on April 14, 2012, 06:10:27 PM
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=509790&postcount=10

macos8.0 + shapeshifter3.11 (SS3.12 & BasiliskII untested)
- NoSuperscalar -

macos8.1 + fusion3.2 (SS3.12 & BasiliskII untested, crashes on SS3.11)
- NoSuperscalar -
- SetFPUExceptions OFF -
- NoBypass-

using Apollo4060 @ 90 MHz (060 rev.6) with P5.libs