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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: runequester on July 15, 2010, 03:53:18 AM
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I am looking at getting a beefier card than my 030/25, but I am concerned about heat.
Reading a bit, it seems that 040 and 060 cards will cause heat issues in a normal A1200 case, is this correct?
What about an 030/50 ?
Basically, whats the beefiest option for a non-towered plain old A1200 case ?
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Pretty much anything except most 040 and mad overclocked 060 boards.
For the most part 060s run cooler than 040s.
Unless they are overclocked. Then you might need extra cooling and that could present a problem with the desktop case.
I have run 25, 40 and 50MHz 030s in desktop A1200s with no trouble.
If you have the funds, I would check out an 060 board. Perhaps an Apollo 1260. Running at 50 to 66MHz shouldn't require any additional cooling.
Make sure your PSU is up to the challenge though as it would draw a bit more juice than an 030 setup.
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Pretty much anything except most 040 and mad overclocked 060 boards.
For the most part 060s run cooler than 040s.
Unless they are overclocked. Then you might need extra cooling and that could present a problem with the desktop case.
I have run 25, 40 and 50MHz 030s in desktop A1200s with no trouble.
If you have the funds, I would check out an 060 board. Perhaps an Apollo 1260. Running at 50 to 66MHz shouldn't require any additional cooling.
Make sure your PSU is up to the challenge though as it would draw a bit more juice than an 030 setup.
Im using this monster
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=866
for power, so I think Im okay there.
It looks like 030/50's are reasonably cheap but if an 060 would work okay, I may have to stay on the lookout for that.
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I am looking at getting a beefier card than my 030/25, but I am concerned about heat.
Reading a bit, it seems that 040 and 060 cards will cause heat issues in a normal A1200 case, is this correct?
What about an 030/50 ?
Basically, whats the beefiest option for a non-towered plain old A1200 case ?
030/50 is your best bet, if you get a Blizzard it's also easy to move all your ROM libs to FASTRAM for a nice speed boost using the excellent BlizKick utility. That said you're not going to to able to do much more with an 030/50 over an 030/25.
The only other real option IMHO is an 060 (040's are too hot). There are a few issues with running 060's in a desktop case though (as I found out to my own cost). For a start you have to get one with a flat angled SIM socket which can only take single sided SIMS, you are then restricted in how much you can overclock it and you also need to consider the crappyness of the standard PSU which might not be up to the task.
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my Blizzard 030@50 with 32Mb Ram is the coolest thing PERIOD & PEACE OUT:afro:
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not too worried about overclocking it. I just want something that has some more punch than my current card :)
The most strain I'll put it through is probably Breathless and Doom
I've seen 030/50's with 32 megs of RAM, compared to the 8 I have now so that'd be kinda nice.
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any 060 card with the last mask 71E41J will work with very little heat.
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Might be worth a mention about motherboard revisions... some don't like 040 and 060's and require timing modifications.
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I`ve got my Blizzard Mk Iv with 64MB and a 68882 fpu and I am completely satisfied. You might run into some problems with some demos running slowly though. If that is your case, then your only option is a 68060 equipped board!!
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I`ve got my Blizzard Mk Iv with 64MB and a 68882 fpu and I am completely satisfied. You might run into some problems with some demos running slowly though. If that is your case, then your only option is a 68060 equipped board!!
If you play (or used to) games on that, what was your experiences with the various amiga FPS games ?
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The question was not for me, but I'll chime in anyway - Breathless is still slow on 030/50 to play on the best settings in my opinion, as is Doom (at least ADoom, that is, haven't tried Doom Attack, but it should be better optimized). Playable, but still far from smooth. I'd say Breathless is not smooth even on 060, but I don't like the game much anyway - it's like AGA = 256 shades of gray...
Edit: as for other FPSs - AB3D totally smooth, AB3DII totally not smooth bordering on unplayable, of course; Genetic Species pretty fast, the engine is well optimized. My general opinion is that 030/50 is not fast enough for decent 3D games, but most of them can be run at playable speed at least.
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How far can I overclock a Blizzard 1260 that's running inside a desktop case without adding a fan?
Is 66mhz the realistic limit? It runs fine at 50MHZ atm, but more speed would be great for stuff like Doom/Quake. (I know, just play on the PC... but the Amiga is just more fun... :P)
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I have been running my Blizzard in the A1200 overclocked at 66.667Mhz for about two years without problem. It may be worth checking the Mask revision of your 060 first.
I tried 80Mhz but the memory bus on the Blizzard just couldnt cope.
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I have been running my Blizzard in the A1200 overclocked at 66.667Mhz for about two years without problem. It may be worth checking the Mask revision of your 060 first.
I tried 80Mhz but the memory bus on the Blizzard just couldnt cope.
Ok cool!
Will one of the 66mhz crystals from your shop work?
And the memory doesn't need to change right? (IIRC it's 60NS)
Thanks! :)
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You probably won't get over 60Mhz with the original 060 revision, but as amigakit says (I guess that's not a person's name, but... :) ) newer revisions such as the E41J will let you overclock more. E.g. my E41J Cyberstorm is clocked at 66Mhz, but it runs cooler than the original 060 at 50Mhz.
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I am looking at getting a beefier card than my 030/25, but I am concerned about heat.
Reading a bit, it seems that 040 and 060 cards will cause heat issues in a normal A1200 case, is this correct?
What about an 030/50 ?
Basically, whats the beefiest option for a non-towered plain old A1200 case ?
A 68030 50mhz will be fine, I'm running mine with 64 meg of ram and a 2 gig compact flash in a 19" rack. No issues at all!
To help speed things up on os3.9 you may want to check this thread out it helped me out heaps!
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50414
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Also visit BoingBag #4 (http://lilliput.host-cafe.com/start.htm) pages for some speedup for OS3.9 (parts also work on WB3.1), especially icon.library & graphics.library.
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Thanks for all the help guys :)
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The question was not for me, but I'll chime in anyway - Breathless is still slow on 030/50 to play on the best settings in my opinion, as is Doom (at least ADoom, that is, haven't tried Doom Attack, but it should be better optimized). Playable, but still far from smooth. I'd say Breathless is not smooth even on 060, but I don't like the game much anyway - it's like AGA = 256 shades of gray...
Edit: as for other FPSs - AB3D totally smooth, AB3DII totally not smooth bordering on unplayable, of course; Genetic Species pretty fast, the engine is well optimized. My general opinion is that 030/50 is not fast enough for decent 3D games, but most of them can be run at playable speed at least.
ah, too bad about Breathless.
Figured AB3DII wouldn't run, supposedly this barely runs on an 060.
I can currently run Gloom and Fears pretty smoothly, so if an 030/50 would let me play full screen, I'll be happy.
I'd have to check out Genetic Species. I havent installed it currently, as Im pretty sure it wouldn't work well with 8 meg fast only
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I would also recommend Nemac IV, which is highly underrated in my opinion and runs great on 030/50.
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I would also recommend Nemac IV, which is highly underrated in my opinion and runs great on 030/50.
I actually have this installed. The intro is awesome.
It runs okayish on my 25, so I imagine it'd do great on a bigger card
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ah, too bad about Breathless.
Figured AB3DII wouldn't run, supposedly this barely runs on an 060.
there are some very very fast cards out there if done correctly this game should work..
some users have 68060 running @70Mhz+,their say appollo 68060 @80Mhz cards runs faster than Blizzard PPC card.
i think it about time to find out if this is true Blizzard PPC 68060@83Mhz.
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there are some very very fast cards out there if done correctly this game should work..
some users have 68060 running @70Mhz+,their say appollo 68060 @80Mhz cards runs faster than Blizzard PPC card.
i think it about time to find out if this is true Blizzard PPC 68060@83Mhz.
Hi, I thought you may be able to answer this... I saw all your work on overclocking the Bliz. PPC cards, very impressive stuff! :-)
I have a Blizzard (Phase 5 rev. 1) 1260... wondered if I can overclock it to 66mhz and still keep it in the desktop case (without fan)?
Or do I need to tower my Amiga if I want to overclock the 060?
Also, can I use this 66mhz crystal from AmigaKit (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=167), and is their instructions on how to do it anywhere? (Any soldering required?)
Thanks, Alex.
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Hi, I thought you may be able to answer this... I saw all your work on overclocking the Bliz. PPC cards, very impressive stuff! :-)
I have a Blizzard (Phase 5 rev. 1) 1260... wondered if I can overclock it to 66mhz and still keep it in the desktop case (without fan)?
Or do I need to tower my Amiga if I want to overclock the 060?
Also, can I use this 66mhz crystal from AmigaKit (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=167), and is their instructions on how to do it anywhere? (Any soldering required?)
Thanks, Alex.
it depends on what mask the 68060 is. if its mask 71e41j the processor will run cooler than other revision. ie no fan needed.
all 68060 should overclock to 66Mhz
the osc from amigakit will work.
RECOMMENDED: get a expert to desolder the old osc. don`t try it yourself unless you have very good soldering skills.
**all modification at your own risk**
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I would get the 060 it runs way cooler and you will have fewer problems with software.
I have an 040 in my 1200 and I wish I would have stayed with the 030.
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Thing is: the 060 will break some WHDLoad games (like 10~15% of them), and 030 will be compatible with all.
060 is awesome for ultimate AGA games and towered A1200 with a Mediator and a graphics card.
If you have another Amiga to run the flawed games that the 060 can't run, then go for it. Otherwise grab the best 030 accelerator you can buy, which is the Blizzard 1230 mk4 overclocked to 60MHz (you need to add at least a heatsink over the CPU & FPU & modify the trapdoor).
Now the Apollo 1260 can run a 060 at 80MHz when using the latest 060 mask CPU (71E41J) and will beat the Blizzard 1260 @66MHz.
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it depends on what mask the 68060 is. if its mask 71e41j the processor will run cooler than other revision. ie no fan needed.
all 68060 should overclock to 66Mhz
Except my earlier revision mask 68060. It's max STABLE operating speed was 60Mhz. Now that i have the latest mask i can easily put on a 66Mhz osc. But i still use 60Mhz to be sure :).
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Except my earlier revision mask 68060. It's max STABLE operating speed was 60Mhz. Now that i have the latest mask i can easily put on a 66Mhz osc. But i still use 60Mhz to be sure :).
71E41J can actually go to 100Mhz (and beyond)....just ask the Atari guys ;)
The problem is that the accelerator cards (memory timing) cannot keep up with them.
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Except my earlier revision mask 68060. It's max STABLE operating speed was 60Mhz. Now that i have the latest mask i can easily put on a 66Mhz osc. But i still use 60Mhz to be sure :).
i don`t know what revision you have,but i have a few old revisions and every single one overclock`s to 70Mhz or even 72Mhz.
i also have MC68060RC66E which i use for testing. but don`t be fooled by the marking,as what`s mark on the outside is not always whats on the inside.
every now and then i drop in a old revision as some my E41J 68060 has problems or maybe a fault with some of my processors.
look out for the marking on the left hand side of the processor ( E41J ) mine has S23328 004 and some end with 006,but some ( E41J ) end with 002.
i think 68060 has been clocked as high as 120-125Mhz,but here on my Blizzard PPC it has been clocked as high as 86Mhz.
marking also appliy`s to simms
the fastest EDO is 50ns,but don`t be fooled by the markings. there are some very poor 50ns simms out there.
there are some simms marked 60ns that out perform even simms that are marked
50ns so beware.
poor 50ns simms =47ns
good 50ns simms=45ns
very good 50ns simms=43ns
super excellent 50ns simms=?
very good=80mhz bus speed on Blizzard PPC card
Super excellent=83Mhz bus speed and above on Blizzard PPC card
this is why my Blizzard PPC card is as fast as a Cyberstorm 200Mhz and getting faster.
2nd fastest Blizzard card in the world.
68060@70Mhz 603e@320mhz ( 80Mhz bus ) with SCSI - 35Mhz PCI bus
ram settings all turned off in Blizzard menu ( DO NOT TRY THIS ON A VERY FAST CARDS WITHOUT **SPECIAL** PROPER COOLING ). you will damage the card.
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The Apollo cards have a very fast memory bus, faster than the phase 5 cards. In fact back in the day AIBB memory speed benchmark of my Apollo 68040 was quicker than a PPC/68060 board we had at the local user group, when by all accounts it should not have been.
Apollo boards also have a blizkick-type utility call remApollo (on Aminet), and this lets you map the OS ROMS and other things like ftext and fblit into the fast ram. It makes a huge difference in operating speed. But get an '060 if you can.
TBH I haven't experienced any whdload games that didn't work with it since I upgraded my 68040 Apollo to an 68060.
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The Apollo cards have a very fast memory bus, faster than the phase 5 cards. In fact back in the day AIBB memory speed benchmark of my Apollo 68040 was quicker than a PPC/68060 board we had at the local user group, when by all accounts it should not have been.
Apollo boards also have a blizkick-type utility call remApollo (on Aminet), and this lets you map the OS ROMS and other things like ftext and fblit into the fast ram. It makes a huge difference in operating speed. But get an '060 if you can.
TBH I haven't experienced any whdload games that didn't work with it since I upgraded my 68040 Apollo to an 68060.
Blizzard PPC card has its memory settings turn off ie no read/write waitstate,this is what makes a difference between my modifyed cards and other modification,this can be 2 seconds + quicker with this setting,this is why i wanted to find out if it`s true if the apollo card is faster.
my modifcation is done around this setting,this is why my card is fast or even faster than a Cyberstorm 200Mhz which puts it in second place as the second fastest classic amiga card.
the Cyberstorm 233Mhz is under threat and *may* lose it crown as the fastest classic amiga card,as iv discoverd something else whats slowing down my card,im awaiting some test result.
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I may be the last man on earth not using WHDload. I guess I just like doing it "the old way" :)