Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: morcar on July 13, 2010, 01:41:46 PM
-
I am going to buy a Commodore Phoenix Pro edition but someone said it wouldnt install Amiga OS 4 ?
Is this right or not ?
-
Correct, the Commodore Phoenix is just a rebranded PC and won't do anything more for you than an eMachines from WalMart.
-
I am going to buy a Commodore Phoenix Pro edition but someone said it wouldnt install Amiga OS 4 ?
If this (http://www.commodoreusa.net/Commodore_Phoenix_computer.html) is what you're on about, no, it won't. It's basically an X86 PC using laptop parts without the benefits of a screen.
OS4 will only run on PPC.
--edit--
To be clear - none of the computers on the commodoreusa site will run OS4.
At best you'll only be able run AROS or OS3.1 via UAE.
-
Is Commodore USA even legal? In wikipedia I found the following text
"In 2010, it was announced that the Commodore name was returning to computer production with a new model being introduced, which includes the built in keyboard as the Commodore 64 with a touchpad and memory card reader. See http://www.commodoreusa.net for more information on the forthcoming release."
However as much as I know the Commodore trademark is used by the following company;
http://www.commodoregaming.com/eu/home.aspx?q=18,148,1
Does anyone know of any documents which show the legal use Commodore USA??
Regards,
Sim085
-
Is Commodore USA even legal?
IANAL, but probably not. They claim they have permission to use the logo, "pending licensing rights". Make of that what you will.
The question is, does Commodore Gaming care enough/have enough cash to smoosh Barrys little enterprise?
Unless they take formal legal action to stop him, he can in principle do whatever the hell he likes with the logo and name.
-
I've been in fairly frequent contact with the owner of Commodore USA regarding the possibility of having AROS pre-installed on their machines, which he is quite open to. In fact he is quite open to all sorts of Commodore fan suggestions, and if things progress, will place an emphasis on opening things up to community involvement wherever possible and bringing back as many aspects and features of the original machines as possible. His desire is for Commodore to provide specialty computers by fans for fans. But a lot of plans are on hold UNTIL things are sorted out regarding the trademark.
Of course there are no PUBLIC documents available that show that Commodore USA can use the Commodore trademark legally. I am sufficiently convinced that their usage of the trademark is legal pending negotiations for a long term license. This agreement is an internal business matter, as it should be, and not for public consumption. There is a disclaimer in the small text on the Commodore USA website which will have to suffice in terms of a public explanation of what is going on.
Throughout our correspondence Barry has been quite open regarding the negotiations, and I can tell you that they are proceeding. If this was a football game, I would say that they are in extra time.
Commodore Gaming is just a licensee and not the OWNER of the Commodore trademarks, even though they seem to have represented themselves in that way to many people, which has led to a lot of misinformed speculation regarding trademark legality by the gadget press.
I am not surprised that people think Commodore USA's machines will run OS4, for all the free advertising Hyperion is getting on that site.
-
@morcar
BTW I have a Commodore Phoenix Basic, which I am very happy with. It's entirely silver with black keys and really looks much better in the flesh than it does on the website. It kinda feels like it just fell off a spaceship and is quite sleek sitting on my desk (a bit of an Amiga fantasy in looks). And of course everyone's favourite joke is that you have to stick the Commodore logo sticker on yourself, which was only the case for a few weeks, not now. The keyboard feels quite sturdy, and the keyboard placement actually makes a lot of sense after you use if for a while.
The machine currently only comes with Ubuntu. I also have it triple booting Windows, Ubuntu and AROS from a graphical grub2 BURG menu which I think is kinda cool in a geeky way. They all boot incredibly quickly in around 10 or so seconds and with the boot screen menu coming up practically instantly. It's a pretty quick machine for my usage pattern. I haven't really tried a modern game on it though as I do my gaming on consoles, but I imagine it will be adequate but not stellar. It isn't aimed at gamers. For a lark, if gaming does prove to be crap on these machines, and forgive me for not rushing out and buying a current game to try, but I might install one of those new mini-PCI ION based graphic cards that are coming out soon. I'd need to swap out the wifi taking up that slot now though, although I do have a USB wi-fi dongle I could use.
-
They look pretty cool, but you have to have at least two cables connected right? Power and video?
I'd run Aros on it...
-
How many hard-drives can you put in it, is it possible to upgrade the GPU, CPU and RAM. How many PCI slots are there?
Does it have any expansion opportunities, or is it just something new unnecessary clutter which will be stowed away or thrown in the garbage after a little while.
-
The address is a furniture store. It's a PC. They claim to be in negotiations with a Dutch company that owns the Commodore name. They are *not* in anyway shape or form related to the Commodore we knew and loved. They are pricey for the specs they have. The owner of "Commodore USA" went to the plants making various PCs and negotiated unbranded versions so that he could stick the Commodore labels on himself. You will be far better off putting together your own box and throwing a Commodore label on it. Actually you'll have one advantage of printing your own labels. Your machine will be legal since you aren't selling someone else's brand, just putting a label on a computer for personal use!
-
But a lot of plans are on hold UNTIL things are sorted out regarding the trademark.
And those things won't be sorted until they have negotiated and agreed to a deal.
Of course there are no PUBLIC documents available that show that Commodore USA can use the Commodore trademark legally.
That would be because they, by the websites own admission, have no such licence.
As such, any sale of C= branded machines by this company is illegal until there is a valid licence held.
I am sufficiently convinced that their usage of the trademark is legal pending negotiations for a long term license.
Then you are an even bigger tool than I took you for. If you require a licence, then until you have one, you are operating illegally. This isn't rocket science.
This agreement is an internal business matter, as it should be, and not for public consumption.
I've played this game before. Until there is a public statement to the effect agreed by both parties, CommodoreUSA's business should be considered infringing.
Yes, in some countries consumer protection laws will save your butt should it turn out that Barry has been BS'ing us all, but that does not apply to all countries.
The phrase Caveat Emptor could not be made in a better situation.
Commodore Gaming is just a licensee and not the OWNER of the Commodore trademarks, even though they seem to have represented themselves in that way to many people, which has led to a lot of misinformed speculation regarding trademark legality by the gadget press.
Citation needed. Now.
Because what you just said amounts to an accusation of criminal fraud.
Choose your next words very carefully sir.
-
And those things won't be sorted until they have negotiated and agreed to a deal.
That would be because they, by the websites own admission, have no such licence.
As such, any sale of C= branded machines by this company is illegal until there is a valid licence held.
It's illegal use when and only when the C= IP owners say it is. Verbal agreement is fine between them until the owners say it's not. Until we hear that Barry is being sued to stop him from using C= logo, he apparently is in good standing with the IP owner. Legally, I sure wouldn't want to be in Barry's shoes if the agreement is not executed, he's put himself in bad position marketing wise if this all blows up in his face. But that's good for the C= IP holders, just another tool to get what they want out of Barry.
-
It's illegal use when and only when the C= IP owners say it is. Verbal agreement is fine between them until the owners say it's not.
And Bernd Korz of Yellowtab totally had an agreement with Palm regarding the licensing of Be Inc IP.
Right up until Palm turned around and pimp slapped him when they decided that the direction he was taking wasn't to their liking...
Unless it is in writing, there is no proof of an agreement. And with regard use, it is technically illegal if you aren't licensed to trade under a brand not your own. As you say however it would require the owners to act before it would be enforced unless it was a big ass company whose brand you were selling under.
As someone who got stung by Korz, I would never, ever again knowingly place myself in a situation of buying potentially infringing products.
Until Barry gets a licence sorted. Steer well clear.
-
Until Barry gets a licence sorted. Steer well clear.
Oh yeah, because if Commodore USA lose the temporary right to use the Commodore trademark, the_leander will come to your house and strip the Commodore sticker off your Phoenix. ;-)
So whatever you do, don't give him your address okay. ;-)
Honestly, just because someone goes through a divorce doesn't necessarily mean marriage is bad for everyone. Get a grip.
-
Oh yeah, because if Commodore USA lose the temporary right to use the Commodore trademark
Any customer who has been suckered into purchasing infringing equipment can pretty much kiss goodbye to any support post a C&D.
Honestly, just because someone goes through a divorce doesn't necessarily mean marriage is bad for everyone. Get a grip.
I don't know why you're shilling for this guy, perhaps you are Barry, I don't know or care tbh. But until a genuine licence is in place, consumers are utterly at the mercy of the IP holders.
That is not a good place to be.
-
@the_leander
You seem to think the product and support suddenly disappears overnight because Barry can't stick a Commodore label on it.
He actually intends to keep selling and supporting these machines even if he has to resort to labeling it a Barrydore. :-D
If the Commodore negotiations go sour the only thing affected may be expansion plans.
BTW I am not Barry. Through our correspondence and a few chats, I've come to know Barry as a straight up nice bloke, who doesn't deserve all the allegations of dishonesty you are making. You really don't know what you are talking about.
-
@the_leander
Throughout my correspondence with Barry Altman, the owner of Commodore USA, I have brought up many of the concerns expressed on this forum and have had these absolutely and conclusively quelled. I am in the unfortunate situation of knowing the real state of things, but due to their confidential nature not being able to divulge information as proof to you. This dilemma of actually knowing that what is being said is factually incorrect compells me to attempt to set the record straight, to right the wrongs and injustice of your accusations, in a more vehement fashion than I would ordinarily.
Then you are an even bigger tool than I took you for. If you require a licence, then until you have one, you are operating illegally. This isn't rocket science.
The name calling is uncalled for. You don't think I asked these sorts of questions?
I have personally seen the e-mails between the various parties that have extended the negotiation period and the usage of the trademark from the TRUE Commodore trademark owners. This was shown to me in confidence, and to my knowledge Barry has been compliant with the licensor requests.
No, this is not rocket science. That you cannot fathom that temporary licensing deals can be struck between two or more parties, that have nothing at all to do with you, without advising you first, is really mind blowing. They've been selling these things for 3 months or so and it's been all over the gadget press. I can assure you that the trademark owners know all about it. are excited about it, and are getting royalties, but probably have no official website where they can acknowledge that the negotiations are actually taking place to your satisfaction. Unfortunately, it is entirely up to them to do so to put your little conspiracy theory to rest. It's not like the Commodore trademark owner cares what YOU think right now. There'll be info shared once the negotions are concluded. This is just the way business is done.
Citation needed. Now.
Because what you just said amounts to an accusation of criminal fraud.
Choose your next words very carefully sir.
Barry, like a lot of people, assumed that Commodore Gaming owned the Commodore trademark and even began negotiations with them. It was then discovered that they were not the actual OWNERS of the trademark and didn't have any rights they could extend. Make of that what you will, whether it was an honest mistake or not. Regardless, Barry is now in negotiations with the TRUE owners of the trademark as I have mentioned repeatedly. It is not for me to edify you on who these people are, however it is public knowledge.
The fact of the matter, sir, is that you don't know what you are talking about, which is quite understandable, as you do not have the information I have at hand, and my dilemma is that I can't share it with you. Expecting confidential information between two business entities to be splattered all over the internet is unrealistic I am afraid. Forums promote speculation and these sorts of wild accusations are expected and part of the territory, and that is all that I am seeing. You can take me at my word or not, it is what it is. I've been an avid forum member for around 7 or more years, and as a long time Commodore and Amiga fan have been advising Commodore USA's owner regarding this Amiga scene as any fan would. On these forums I have something to share and talk about that I am as excited about as any other fan thing I've heard about over the last 10 years. That some of you don't share my sense of excitement about these developments is fine. To each his own. That a Commodore entity could actually provide something tangible from a fan perspective is a great thing in my books, even if these particular products are not attractive to you.
-
@halvliter'n
How many hard-drives can you put in it, is it possible to upgrade the GPU, CPU and RAM. How many PCI slots are there?
Does it have any expansion opportunities, or is it just something new unnecessary clutter which will be stowed away or thrown in the garbage after a little while.
BTW the schematic, and the user manual are available on the website.
The machine, in its enclosure, obviously lends itself to as little in terms of expandibility as a Mac-mini would. You can upgrade RAM and the HD, and there is a mini-PCIe slot you could potentially repurpose. Upgrading the CPU is about as likely as any other PC motherboard. It is what it is. If you think a fully functional computer with these current specs are going to become garbage and clutter, it is really a matter for you to determine. The rapid pace of hardware development means that all machines have a degree of obsolescense built in. I would not dream of trying to use my A1000 for my daily tasks today for instance. This is a modern Commodore branded machine that is useful *today* in a form factor that screams Commodore. I personally don't envision throwing out my Commodore Phoenix until I get my own personal holodeck. ;-)
-
@persia
The address is a furniture store.
Heaven forbid that Commodore USA's owner Barry Altman actually runs what seems like a successful business. Were you expecting a letter box drop? ;-)
It's a PC.
Which I think is actually a plus. Why relegate yourself to fringe hardware?
They claim to be in negotiations with a Dutch company that owns the Commodore name.
Yep, and they are. I have seen e-mails to that affect, and if anyone stoops to the absurdity of claiming what I have seen is fake there really is no hope for you. Take me at my word or not.
They are *not* in anyway shape or form related to the Commodore we knew and loved.
After 17 years how could they be? It doesn't disposess them of selling Commodore branded machines for Commodore fans by Commodore fans. Does Sam Tramiel himself have to own it to be related?
They are pricey for the specs they have.
Yep, it's a specialty machine. If the brand, and the form factor mean nothing to you, don't buy it. I find it attractive and I know, from what I've heard of sales, other people do to.
The owner of "Commodore USA" went to the plants making various PCs and negotiated unbranded versions so that he could stick the Commodore labels on himself.
Yep, it beats spending a quarter of a million or more developing hardware from scratch that will be out of date by the time it comes to market.
You will be far better off putting together your own box and throwing a Commodore label on it.
In your opinion, sure. We'll have to agree to disagree. In my mind it is about as silly as you telling someone to buy a Google device and slap an Apple sticker on it to make it an iPhone. But go ahead if that floats your boat.
Actually you'll have one advantage of printing your own labels. Your machine will be legal since you aren't selling someone else's brand, just putting a label on a computer for personal use!
And there you go making an allegation that something is illegal when it is actually quite kosher. If my repeated assurances are not enough to quell this concern of yours, then short of business agreements becoming public, nothing will. When Commodore USA finally succeeds or fails to obtain the license I am sure you'll be hearing a lot from all parties.
BTW the Commodore labels are beautiful. They look as though they are encased in glass. I'm really annoyed they aren't displayed prominently on the site actually. Something you print off yourself on your own printer just doesn't compare in terms of quality I'm afraid, but have at it, if it floats your boat.
-
More nothing.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, to quote the great chan saying: Dox or GTFO.
The name calling is uncalled for. You don't think I asked these sorts of questions?
I don't give a crap if you have or not. At no point has there been any evidence to back up your claims. "Trust me" simply does not cut it.
I have personally seen the e-mails between the various parties that have extended the negotiation period and the usage of the trademark from the TRUE Commodore trademark owners. This was shown to me in confidence, and to my knowledge Barry has been compliant with the licensor requests.
Again, Dox or GTFO. You repeating this line is so much smoke and mirrors.
No, this is not rocket science. That you cannot fathom that temporary licensing deals can be struck between two or more parties, that have nothing at all to do with you, without advising you first, is really mind blowing.
Verbal contracts are worthless in the real world.
They've been selling these things for 3 months or so and it's been all over the gadget press. I can assure you that the trademark owners know all about it. are excited about it, and are getting royalties, but probably have no official website where they can acknowledge that the negotiations are actually taking place to your satisfaction.
Possibly the single most convoluted pile of tripe I've ever read.
The fact of the matter, sir, is that you don't know what you are talking about, which is quite understandable, as you do not have the information I have at hand, and my dilemma is that I can't share it with you.
Of course not, we're all simply supposed to accept you at your word. None of us has the faintest clue who you are, but hey no worries, it's the internet! It must be true! :rolleyes:
-
@KTThunder
They look pretty cool, but you have to have at least two cables connected right? Power and video?
I'd run Aros on it...
Yep, that's right. It has one DVI and one VGA, and I have one of each connected to each monitor. An inexpensive adapter can be purchased from most electronic stores if you need to change the VGA to DVI.
There's a power brick, but at least the power button is on the keyboard and not on the power brick, and the cabling distance is decent. :-D
Yeah, I've been stuffing around with AROS quite a bit lately and the experience is good, but it could be better with official hardware support, which will hopefully be sorted once all this trademark uncertainty is done with. Then Commodore USA will be free to both gather investors and make investments that would further appeal to the Commodore fan base.
-
@the_leander
Fine. Don't believe me.
Any docs I've seen are confidential. Live with it.
You cannot show me docs to negate what I am saying either.
I'll have to leave you to your ignorance I suppose.
Just attempting to inject some truth in here, and you keep knocking it. Oh well.
I will not be partaking in any further discussion....(I broke my rule)
There really is no more to say.
-
@the_leander
Fine. Don't believe me. I'll leave you to your ignorance I suppose.
Well perhaps if you provided Dox to back up your claims, I wouldn't be "ignorant", would I?
You can't have it both ways.
-
A low end PC in a screenless laptop format. Back in the days of CRTs and expensive video panels it made some sense to save a few bucks but putting the computer in the keyboard. Times have changed, the original companies that distributed these things were underwhelmed when it came to sales. Somebody thought they'd sell better if you slapped a Commodore label on them and made them some sort of faux nostalgia machine. Who knows? Me, I'll stick a computer box in a cabinet under of TV and use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. It's cheaper and cleaner.... No wires across my lounge room floor..l
-
@persia
No wires across my lounge room floor
No one would suggest you would use a Commodore Phoenix for your lounge room, it is a desktop computer.
The Commodore Invictus which has wireless HDMI is better suited for the lounge room. ;-)
It would not require anything in the cabinet nor would you need to worry about purchasing wireless peripherals and a HDMI cable.
Signing off.
-
It is such a shame to see the Commodore brand used once again in this way -- actually rather disgusting IMO.
-
Necrophiliacs abound!
-
Any docs I've seen are confidential. Live with it.
You cannot show me docs to negate what I am saying either.
I'll have to leave you to your ignorance I suppose.
You realize how stupid this sounds right?
How is he supposed to show you e-mails / paperwork to negate the e-mails/paperwork that you keep talking about but fail to show?
That makes absolutely no sense.
I HAVE THE DOCUMENTATIONS FROM THEM AND STUFF BUT I WONT SHOW ANYONE, AND YOU CANT SHOW ME THE EMAILS FROM THEM TO NEGATE THE EMAILS THEY GAVE ME BECAUSE YOURE IGNORANT.
(http://matchstic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/funny_fail_posters_5.jpg)
-
You don't seem to understand the significance of a period/full stop in sentences do you.
Twisting my sentences is just silly. You know precisely what I meant and just want to stir the pot. His accusations of wrong doing are not only baseless but slanderous without evidence. Besides that, if you actually read what I've been saying, it's not a matter of me telling you I won't, it is a matter of me telling you I CAN'T. I can't divulge that information as much as I would like to, I can only tell you what I have observed. He said prove it...and I have told you I can't provide you with evidence due to confidentiality reasons. That's just too bad. I don't understand all the skepticism and right now I really don't care. Goodnight.
-
It is such a shame to see the Commodore brand used once again in this way -- actually rather disgusting IMO.
I completely agree.
-
You don't seem to understand the significance of a period/full stop in sentences do you.
Twisting my sentences is just silly. You know precisely what I meant and just want to stir the pot. His accusations of wrong doing are not only baseless but slanderous without evidence. Besides that, if you actually read what I've been saying, it's not a matter of me telling you I won't, it is a matter of me telling you I CAN'T. I can't divulge that information as much as I would like to, I can only tell you what I have observed. He said prove it...and I have told you I can't provide you with evidence due to confidentiality reasons. That's just too bad. I don't understand all the skepticism and right now I really don't care. Goodnight.
The lack of punctuation was to make it sound as stupid to you as it does to the rest of us.
Way to admit to stirring the pot. SO MUCH FOR PROFESSIONALISM.
If you can't share the e-mails, don't mention em.
put up, or shut up. :)
-
And Bernd Korz of Yellowtab totally had an agreement with Palm regarding the licensing of Be Inc IP.
Right up until Palm turned around and pimp slapped him when they decided that the direction he was taking wasn't to their liking...
That's the danger, license can be revoked.
Unless it is in writing, there is no proof of an agreement.
Depends on the law of the land, Belgium, might be meaningless to have a verbal agreement, FL has a limited time (it's either 30 or 60 days) where verbal agreements are binding, if you can prove it was said.
And with regard use, it is technically illegal if you aren't licensed to trade under a brand not your own.
It's technically illegal if the IP owners says it is. If it's fine with the IP owner, it's not illegal.
As you say however it would require the owners to act before it would be enforced unless it was a big ass company whose brand you were selling under.
As someone who got stung by Korz, I would never, ever again knowingly place myself in a situation of buying potentially infringing products.
I wouldn't have done it either, but I side on prudent and reasonable risk taking. Barry has crawled too far out on that limb for my liking but if he and the IP owners are happy, good for him.
Until Barry gets a licence sorted. Steer well clear.
For end users, it's not going to matter a hill of beans. Resellers, OTOH, should take notice to stay away from that tar baby.
-
My solution has no wires, yours has a power cord to deal with. Mine has an inexpensive keyboard and mouse that can be replaced when worn or damaged. My keyboard is lighter, cooler to put on your lap. Plus for the same money I can get a modern chip with 4 cores instead of two and running a faster cpu. I can easily replace parts.
The Faux Commodore Invictus offers nothing yhat you can't do better and cheaper with a box and bluetooth.
@persia
No one would suggest you would use a Commodore Phoenix for your lounge room, it is a desktop computer.
The Commodore Invictus which has wireless HDMI is better suited for the lounge room. ;-)
It would not require anything in the cabinet nor would you need to worry about purchasing wireless peripherals and a HDMI cable.
Signing off.
-
The Faux Commodore Invictus offers nothing yhat you can't do better and cheaper with a box and bluetooth.
and a Commodore badge to make it "official"
-
BTW I am not Barry. Through our correspondence and a few chats, I've come to know Barry as a straight up nice bloke, who doesn't deserve all the allegations of dishonesty you are making. You really don't know what you are talking about.
Really?
http://www.commodoreusa.net/
http://uk.aminet.net/pix/trace/AMIGA-fantasyB.jpg
-
He nicked the Amiga Fantasy render from some years ago?
-
I think that we should let the IP owners worry about what is legal or not. If you don't think it is legal don't buy it. I really don't think it really matters too terribly much. None of the IP owners are tech powerhouses anymore, any advertising is a good thing I should think.
And by the way why is it when a Commodore or Amiga fan actually comes through and produces something we could all actually buy and enjoy someone goes and says it is disgusting. Is Minimig disgusting? or UAE, or Aros, or OS4? I think this stuff is cool.
I have a Commodore 90mhz pentium that I think is pretty cool. It was made after Amiga was split from commodore and there are very very few of them around. I've debated ripping out the guts and putting in a quadcore AMD system. Right now it is how it left commodore. Probably not a lot of people would want this computer, but I kinda like it.
-
He nicked the Amiga Fantasy render from some years ago?
Nicked it, removed the "Amiga Fantasy" logo, the artist's name, and the mouse cable. (All rather poorly done, I might add.)
And best of all, claims it's going to be "Available late 2010".
-
And by the way why is it when a Commodore or Amiga fan actually comes through and produces something we could all actually buy and enjoy someone goes and says it is disgusting. Is Minimig disgusting? or UAE, or Aros, or OS4? I think this stuff is cool.
This guy hasn't produced anything.
-
What are you talking about the phoenix looks nothing like the fantasy. The fantasy is all curved with a full grill along the top. The phoenix is square with the touchpad and speaker grills at the top.
I know you guys may not approve of this but lets not get carried away.
Oh wait I didn't actually check the commodore link you posted. Yeah that is the same. Maybe he and the original are the same guy or working together or something?
-
This guy hasn't produced anything.
You can buy the Phoenix right now on the website, and a few people actually have.
-
There's a difference between reselling and producing.
...though I guess he may have produced the stickers!
-
You can buy the Phoenix right now on the website, and a few people actually have.
There's a difference between reselling and producing.
...though he may have produced the stickers!
-
That Fantasy pic is pretty cool.
-
There's a difference between reselling and producing.
...though he may have produced the stickers!
So maybe we should skip anybody that wants to sell retro-styled computer stuff and just stick stickers on our Dells?
-
That Fantasy pic is pretty cool.
Cool enough to shamelessly steal, apparently.
-
So maybe we should skip anybody that wants to sell retro-styled computer stuff and just stick stickers on our Dells?
No, by all means, buy a computer that can do exactly what the computer you already have (or can get for easily half the price) does, and nothing more, solely because the case is a bit different (ha, "retro-style," good one.)
-
Cool enough to shamelessly steal, apparently.
How the heck do you know it was shamelessly stolen? Are you the original artist? Do you know this person? You seem to be jumping to conclusions because you don't like this product.
-
No, by all means, buy a computer that can do exactly what the computer you already have (or can get for easily half the price) does, and nothing more, solely because the case is a bit different (ha, "retro-style," good one.)
I would consider the fantasy case very retro styled. It looks like a modern black c64. Really cool. I'd buy one.
-
How the heck do you know it was shamelessly stolen? Are you the original artist? Do you know this person? You seem to be jumping to conclusions because you don't like this product.
I don't know for a fact, but there's a definite pattern here, some dork trying to make money off of other people's work. Most artists generally would appreciate their signature not being removed from a piece of their work.
-
I would consider the fantasy case very retro styled. It looks like a modern black c64. Really cool. I'd buy one.
The fantasy case looks nothing like a C64, it resembles an A500, and it doesn't exist, therefore I was not commenting on it but on the current offerings from "Commodore." Hopefully if a case like it somehow gets magically produced, the artist is compensated.
-
I don't know for a fact, but there's a definite pattern here, some dork trying to make money off of other people's work. Most artists generally would appreciate their signature not be removed from a piece of their work.
Anything we could possibly produce at this point would be at least partially off someone elses work. If he bought all rights to the art he could do anything he wants with it, even sign his own name.
-
The fantasy case looks nothing like a C64, it resembles an A500, and it doesn't exist, therefore I was not commenting on it but on the current offerings from "Commodore." Hopefully if a case like it somehow gets magically produced, the artist is compensated.
I owned one c64 and several 64c's and never owned an a500, to me it looks like a c64 (64c)
Ok an a500 or 1200 maybe. Anyway its cool
-
I owned one c64 and several 64c's and never owned an a500, to me it looks like a c64 (64c)
..well, it's got keys, in that way they're quite similar.
-
..well, it's got keys, in that way they're quite similar.
You dont see any similarities between the 64c the c128, the a500, a600 and a1200?
Ummm ok whatever...
-
You dont see any similarities between the 64c the c128, the a500, a600 and a1200?
Ummm ok whatever...
Hey, there are similarities between those, the Atari ST, an IBM 101 key keyboard, and a piece of pie I ate earlier in the week! How about that.
-
Hey, there are similarities between those, the Atari ST, an IBM 101 key keyboard, and a piece of pie I ate earlier in the week! How about that.
what does that have to do with anything? I was with you through most of this discussion but this is a bit off.
-
ummm what kind of pie was it?
-
ohhhh they are wedges, geeze that took a while. Ok but the lines and grill etc are very commodoresque.
-
All these comments about a product that doesn't exist, drawn by an unknown artist who likely doesn't know his work is being used, produced by a furniture company reusing the Commodore brand. Yawn.
We all know if Commodore had survived they wouldn't be making computers in a keyboard (aka screenless laptops). They did that a decade an a half ago because it was cheaper to construct. Now it's more expensive. Had Commodore survived they'd have switched to laptops and would be coming out with Android tablets....
-
I don't know anything about "Commodore USA" or the guy running the show there and quite frankly all of the pissing and moaning about intellectual property isn't going to amount to anything other than to further demonstrate just how fractured the Amiga population is.
Heck, in the very earliest days of the Amiga's history there was one company who felt that Amiga was ripping off there their I.P. and re-branding it. Anyone remember that incident? In the end none of it made a crap pile worth of difference.
Lets face it, there are lots of great examples of really straight up companies in the Commodore / Amiga legacy.
i.e. Commodore, Merlancia, Gateway, Amiga inc., need I go on...
In the end it's all about making money or satisfying a passion, in many cases at someone else's expense. Who cares if this guy makes a few nickels selling Commodore branded stuff. Even if it was a "real" Commodore product, most of us wouldn't buy anyway cause we're cheap bastards and stuck in a time warp anyway.
Regards,
AmigaEd
-
How the heck do you know it was shamelessly stolen? Are you the original artist? Do you know this person?
No idea about it, seems to be @ Marko Hirv, Estonia (possibly Tallinn).
-
So maybe we should skip anybody that wants to sell retro-styled computer stuff and just stick stickers on our Dells?
Finally someone gets it, autoboot AROS and stick Amiga/Commodore logos all over your PC indeed ;)
It's one thing to say it is hankering after the form factor of old computers (the black one looks a lot more like a Memotech MTX500 actually than any Commodore machine)...and another to specifically say it is a new Commodore computer for C64/Amiga fans and putting C= stickers on it when it has nothing technically to do with Commodore IP holders. For my money though all his stuff looks crap compared to the simple elegant beauty of a C64C (the wedge shaped one) but each to their own and how people spend their money is none of my business I guess :)
-
No idea about it, seems to be @ Marko Hirv, Estonia (possibly Tallinn).
Yup. From aminet subdir pix/trace:
(http://uk.aminet.net/pix/trace/AMIGA-fantasy2.jpg)
From commodoreusa.net:
(http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//PC64Pro.jpg)
-
How the heck do you know it was shamelessly stolen? Are you the original artist? Do you know this person? You seem to be jumping to conclusions because you don't like this product.
Unless you're the artist, then why would anyone care anyway? If you are then the picture has been sitting doing nothing for years & this is probably the only chance of it ever making any money for you. Complaining now is unlikely to have any positive effect (because CUSA probably has no money).
Successful businesses run as close to breaking the law as they can. It's pretty much impossible to make a load of money legally. Commodore of old knew that.
If the fantasy case actually gets produced then it does look quite cool, not sure that I'd buy a machine for the prices he wants to sell though. However I doubt he could ever afford to create the molds in the first place, but if he does then when he runs out of money someone could probably pick them up cheap.
Right now CUSA looks like some crazy kid with delusions of grandeur, but that is what you need for a startup these days.
Just go buy some popcorn, sit back and watch.
Posting on a forum is unlikely to make any difference anyway.
-
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32205&forum=17&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0
-
Unless you're the artist, then why would anyone care anyway? If you are then the picture has been sitting doing nothing for years & this is probably the only chance of it ever making any money for you. Complaining now is unlikely to have any positive effect (because CUSA probably has no money).
Successful businesses run as close to breaking the law as they can. It's pretty much impossible to make a load of money legally. Commodore of old knew that.
If the fantasy case actually gets produced then it does look quite cool, not sure that I'd buy a machine for the prices he wants to sell though. However I doubt he could ever afford to create the molds in the first place, but if he does then when he runs out of money someone could probably pick them up cheap.
Right now CUSA looks like some crazy kid with delusions of grandeur, but that is what you need for a startup these days.
Just go buy some popcorn, sit back and watch.
Posting on a forum is unlikely to make any difference anyway.
1. That particular design is copyright to the person who spent days modelling it.
2. It clearly shows there is no such machine like that in development, just lies to try and get some kudos going.
3. Removing information about the creator from the image with some ham-fisted cropping says it all really.
I feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to buy anything from this guy, if you really want these machines then buy them direct from the original makers at half the price, print out your own bloody C= stickers and be done with it lol
-
Came across this article... read the last paragraph... priceless!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/25/commodore_name_bounces_again/
-
Right now CUSA looks like some crazy kid with delusions of grandeur, but that is what you need for a startup these days.
Sound like someone familiar? I just hope this Comp USA thing isn't going to screw anyone over like Merlancia did. :|
-
Until the recent idea of fabricating custom cases, it was all fairly easy to accomplish stuff, wouldn't even have to have anything in stock. Get an order from a customer, order a system from your supplier, slap a sticker on it and send it to the purchaser. Anybody with a few hundred bucks to start with could get away with that.
I'd hope it'd take more than a graphic snatched off of the internet to start selling an "original" system, hard to believe people would be excited enough to preorder a CyberNet/Eee/etc keyboard PC with a custom case.
-
Unless you're the artist, then why would anyone care anyway?
Because apart from anything else, it shows a complete lack of scruples. As a consumer, I go out of my way to avoid people who blatantly flout the law to sell their wares.
I know, strange, huh?
It's pretty much impossible to make a load of money legally.
What utter rot. Then again I suppose if you're giving C= as the example I could almost understand where you're coming from.
C= were completely and utterly incompetent on every level. They couldn't have sold water to people dying of thirst in a desert.
Right now CUSA looks like some crazy kid with delusions of grandeur, but that is what you need for a startup these days.
No, what startups need is well thought out business models with decent products that fulfil a need within a given market, or even create their own.
Delusions of grandeur? See Merlancia.