Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: gertsy on June 12, 2010, 04:20:32 AM
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Thought I'd post a new thread to celebrate my 500th anniversary.
There are many little "things" about classic Amiga's that p*** people off.
In the spirit of positive feedback: It's the way products become better: CIP. Not that that will help with classics. But:
Why on the A500, A600 and A1200 is there a lip on the back that makes it impossible to see the connectors from above....Grrr...?
Any other pet hates ?
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The use of 2.5inch drives in the A1200 back in the day they were expensive and a lot slower than 3.5inch drives.
The lame 15watt PSU in that came with the A1200.
I've got plenty of gripes about the hard to expand Classic Macs as well. So your only real option is to fork out for another computer.
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My biggest one was the lack of a standard IDE connector for the CD rom drive of the CD32, which meant that when it went, you were SOL. This was compounded by the fact that neither the SX32 nor the SX32 pro (the one with the 68030 onboard) had proper buffering on their IDE lines, so you couldn't add a CD drive that way and use a hard drive at the same time. None of the IDEfix cards added the buffering since they were designed for the 1200 which had proper buffering of it's IDE.
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Simple, there where lots of 030/040/060 accelerators for the 1200, why didn't they fit a good 68030RC50 and 68882RC50 on it and for the last revision the 68060RC50 ?
They also could have done that with the A500.
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make the damn floppy drive stop clicking!
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Simple, there where lots of 030/040/060 accelerators for the 1200, why didn't they fit a good 68030RC50 and 68882RC50 on it and for the last revision the 68060RC50 ?
In a word? Cost.
At the time of the 1200's release, the 030 in any variant was exorbitant. When the 030 accelerators first came out, they weren't a whole lot less than the price of a new A1200. As for the 060... Oh good lord. Do you remember the costs of accelerators fitted with those things even in 1998?! ROTFL.
They also could have done that with the A500.
Because the 030 hadn't even been released until after the A500 was in full production. And again, cost, at the time the 030 would have been so fresh it would have been warm still by the time it was delivered. The A500 was designed to fit within a budget, adding even an 020 as an option at the time of launch would have been hideously expensive. Remember the costs of the A3000 when it was launched? I do.
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Thought I'd post a new thread to celebrate my 500th anniversary.
There are many little "things" about classic Amiga's that p*** people off.
In the spirit of positive feedback: It's the way products become better: CIP. Not that that will help with classics. But:
Why on the A500, A600 and A1200 is there a lip on the back that makes it impossible to see the connectors from above....Grrr...?
Any other pet hates ?
Nothing... Seriously. Nothing. And I mean that.
All I seem to have done my whole computing life is try to find anything that is as wonderful as the Amiga. It is obviously dated but hey that's not the girlfriends fault.
Thinks ' A thing of beauty is a joy forever '
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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make the damn floppy drive stop clicking!
You do realise there is a program on Aminet to let you do just that... Often appeared on cover disks. Personally I like the clicking given that the Amiga is so quiet. Like a heartbeat.
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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In a word? Cost.
At the time of the 1200's release, the 030 in any variant was exorbitant. When the 030 accelerators first came out, they weren't a whole lot less than the price of a new A1200. As for the 060... Oh good lord. Do you remember the costs of accelerators fitted with those things even in 1998?! ROTFL.
Because the 030 hadn't even been released until after the A500 was in full production. And again, cost, at the time the 030 would have been so fresh it would have been warm still by the time it was delivered. The A500 was designed to fit within a budget, adding even an 020 as an option at the time of launch would have been hideously expensive. Remember the costs of the A3000 when it was launched? I do.
No different to a PC of the day. And the PC, trust me was crap. I priced out like for like before I bought my Amiga 1200 in 1993 and the PC was more expensive. And having experienced a PC of the day trust me you didn`t want to go there.
Computing in those days was very expensive. What ever you ran. The Amiga was way ahead of its competitors in multitasking, animations etc and thats why. The Amiga though was the only model that let you start modest and build to your own pace. Unlike the tinboxes and Macs of the day.
As for 1998 ....
By 1998 the market of supply and demand was such that because of the falling user base the makers of the 060 had to lift the price to stay alive. Personally I would still pay those prices now if I could get a new Cyberstorm.... ar hum.
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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Battery leaking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It would have been nice if the controller ports were installed on the side or front, it was very frustrating to change the controller/mouse all the time playing games =).
But not like in the A600, they wont fit anything but "regular" connectors.
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In a word? Cost.
At the time of the 1200's release, the 030 in any variant was exorbitant. When the 030 accelerators first came out, they weren't a whole lot less than the price of a new A1200. As for the 060... Oh good lord. Do you remember the costs of accelerators fitted with those things even in 1998?! ROTFL.
*cough* Falcon 030 *cough*
Ok, it had a 16-bit data bus, but that was more for compatibility with the rest of the atari innards, not due to cost. The falcon was comparably priced to the A1200.
My pet hate with the A1200 was that it didn't come with any fast ram, nor the provision to add any beyond the trapdoor. A single SIMM slot and requisite glue logic on the motherboard would not have broken the bank and would have made the machine far more capable out of the box.
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The fact that, in contrast to any laptop or notebook, the largest part of a fitted pcmcia-card on the A1200 is outside of the computer.
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I guess mine is that the CPU slot in the 4000 was only designed to address a maximum of 128MB Ram, even though the 1200 could handle more.
Didn't those Commodore engineers realise just how memory intensive apps may have become nearly 20 years on! ;)
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2MB chip ram limit on 1200 and 4000, having an oboard simm socket with 2mb in as standard with the option to upgrade to 4MB or perhaps more would have been great. Perhaps then I could actually play games that expect to use all the chip ram like T-zero.
Black and white composite output on the 2000, seriously, why?
No scandoubler/flicker fixer in the 4000, a backwards step from the 3000
stupid yellowing plastic cases
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make the damn floppy drive stop clicking!
Noooooooo! ;-)
Battery leaking - most definitely!
TrevorD
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Leaky batteries and electrolytic caps mounted with the wrong polarity are two issues that are far beyond pet hates, these are serious design/production flaws that can spell an untimely end to your machine.
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make the damn floppy drive stop clicking!
Hi,
Did you ever hear of the program called noclick.
I believe it came on some of the old Software Hut disks when you purchased something from them in the old days.
smerf
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huh. Learn something new every day :)
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Arrh leaking batteries; the bane of the big box Amiga and the A501. Pitty they never looked at replacable CR2032s. How many Amigas would that have saved??
This one's not so much Amiga but software that wouldnt use DF1 for a second diskette. Grrr x 2
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Hi,
Did you ever hear of the program called noclick.
I believe it came on some of the old Software Hut disks when you purchased something from them in the old days.
smerf
There are ways around many of the pet annoyances we have; the point is you have to use a program or work around for something that shouldn't be annoying in the first place. A1200 pcmcia cards do stick way out the side. You can tower your 1200 and use a right angle adaptor, but really commodore should have made the slot deeper into the machine like most laptops had.
My big pet peeve was always the wires. on a c64, or 500, 600, or 1200, you have a minimum of what 3 or 4 wires connected just for a functional machine. Yeah nice compact case but it is tethered with a web of cables :(
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Hi,
@playgeneration,
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2MB chip ram limit on 1200 and 4000, having an oboard simm socket with 2mb in as standard with the option to upgrade to 4MB or perhaps more would have been great. Perhaps then I could actually play games that expect to use all the chip ram like T-zero.
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Can't really answer about the ram except that in those days ram was very expensive. Somehow Commodore saw expansion, and limited it to 2mb of ram. Probably an engineering design flaw, ask Mr. Haynie on this one. (Probably something planned for the future to make Commodore money).
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Black and white composite output on the 2000, seriously, why?
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I know that you are going to find this hard to believe, but Commodore brought out the A2000 to compete with the IBM business machine and Unix machines, back in those days Color monitors were very expensive and most business's used either B&W, Amber or Green monitors.
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No scandoubler/flicker fixer in the 4000, a backwards step from the 3000
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The original design had that and a lot more, Thanks to Mr. Ali on this one, he had the A4000 butchered to meet cost expenditures.
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stupid yellowing plastic cases
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Come on now, you guys will blame Commodore for everything, the yellowing case is actually your fault, you are the one that kept your machine out in the sunlight, now aren't you? I kept mine in a dark room with no lights, and my A1200 is still white. You have only yourself to blame for this one.
smerf
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actually commodore should have tested all their materials for 25 years to make sure they aged well. they should have realized their machines would still be in use in 2010 :)
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no kerning, makes all of your printing look amaturish
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Hi,
@Kthunder,
The reason Commodore had the disk drive constantly running was to recognize the insertion of a disk, then it would automatically load. Thanks to a smart programmer he was able to shut down the drive, and still have it determine if a disk was inserted. Workaround emmm yes, but then when you reload the Amiga Os the machine was really fast because you didn't have to hit the OK on the Insert disk 2 question like you did on other machines.
smerf
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no kerning, makes all of your printing look amaturish
Hi,
Ever try Final Copy or Final Copy II.
I was accused of having a laser printer back in the 80's because of these programs.
smerf
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Hi,
@ Karlos,
Once again Karlos, leaking battries is your fault, do you not check your car battery at least once a month for water, the reason you do this is so that the battery does not get hot from being dry and crack and leak the remaining acid out on your car. You should of read Commodores bulletin no. 234 on how to check your Amiga's battery, and bought the special refilling kit. This would have prevented this problem.
smerf
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what about the kickstart 1.3 startup screen? so ugly..
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Hi,
@Kthunder,
The reason Commodore had the disk drive constantly running was to recognize the insertion of a disk, then it would automatically load. Thanks to a smart programmer he was able to shut down the drive, and still have it determine if a disk was inserted. Workaround emmm yes, but then when you reload the Amiga Os the machine was really fast because you didn't have to hit the OK on the Insert disk 2 question like you did on other machines.
smerf
we all know the reasons behind a lot of these things, it doesn't make them any less annoying. we are all pointing out minor annoyances to our favorite computer and you are out on attack. relax geeze...
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I think my biggest pet peeve is that every time an A3000(T) or A4000(T) comes up for sale I'm short on funds :lol:.
Honestly I think the biggest peeve is that my LED cluster on the A2000 doesn't sit flush with the front panel.
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Hi,
Ever try Final Copy or Final Copy II.
I was accused of having a laser printer back in the 80's because of these programs.
smerf
That's almost true with me too. I got a nice complement by a professor on the quality of the printing I used with Final Writer and an Okidata.
Annoying things:
Leaking batteries.
The internal design of the A4000D is horrible. The insane way that the PSU case bumps right up against the CD drive making it damn near impossible to hook it up without breaking the plastic connectors on the ribbon due to how tight the connection is. The extremely fragile power button stick that breaks when you look at it. The damn near impossibility to get at some of the tabs in the front panel without taking some skin off. The cheap quality of the metal casing.
Not designing space for a CD drive in the A3000D
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Well my main complaints are basic AmigaOS related ones:
What the hell were they thinking when they created a Prefs folder with a million preferences program piled in it (actually fifteen prefrences programs on 3.0/3.1)?
Couldnt they simply created a centralized one with all the details much like ProDad p.O.S. or MorphOS have?
BTW, this complaint remains valid on 3.9 and even in 4.1. No one seems sane enough to fix this, or even acknowledge all this. They even make it worse. I hope no one ever releases OS5 or OS6, because we will need to take an internship just to get the grips on all the different preferences programs alone!
Funny facts:
OS version + Number of prefs programs
1.0 = 1
1.3 = 5
2.0 = 13
3.0 = 15
3.5 = 19
3.9 = 23
4.0 = 27
4.1 = 29
4.1 Update 1/2 = 31
Oh, and the printing system... Where they doing drugs? I mean 3 preference programs to handle the printing prefs (Printer, PrinterGFX, and PrinterPS) plus more programs on the tools folder (GraphicDump, InitPrinter, PrintFiles and CMD). What an hilarious mess!
Couldnt they just come up with something simpler more centralized like Turboprint? You need to use seven, yes SEVEN different programs to manage your printing since AmigaOS 3.0, and nothing still changes about that either.
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No different to a PC of the day.
I totally understand that, but there was a reason that the A500 sold as it did and the A2000 and A3000's didn't: Price.
And yes, by the time of the A1200 they were still ahead in its price bracket, but it's technological edge had been severely eroded and even surpassed in some areas.
In the big box arena, a fully specced A4000 by the time of it's release was out of date within the price bracket (about a grand for the lower end model iirc). Graphics and sound on the PC was already more advanced than anything that AGA could put out, even if the software wasn't yet there. By the time of the release of the A4000T, the writing was truly on the wall.
Only with the inclusion of 3rd party graphics and sound cards could the Amiga compete and even then at the time there wasn't any RTG, so only specific programs could make use of these features.
Computing in those days was very expensive.
I know, I was there.
As for 1998 ....
By 1998 the market of supply and demand was such that because of the falling user base the makers of the 060 had to lift the price to stay alive.
I don't think I ever saw the 060's sell for any less than £200 for the A1200 and £350 for the A3/4000 during their lives. They always carried a significant premium over lesser accelerators.
Personally I would still pay those prices now if I could get a new Cyberstorm.... ar hum.
Heh, yeah.
*cough* Falcon 030 *cough*
Ok, it had a 16-bit data bus, but that was more for compatibility with the rest of the atari innards, not due to cost. The falcon was comparably priced to the A1200.
IIRC it was around £100 more. Admittedly by this time C= had all but squashed Atari. And as you say, the internals of the Falcon were not as advanced. I think that adding a full blown 030 to the 1200 would have pushed the price up beyond the Falcons, possibly not by a huge margin, but maybe enough to have let Atari back into the game.
Now, the one thing I think the 1200 should have had but didn't, but that the Falcon did, was a MIDI port. I would guess that it would have made it much more appealing to you Karlos.
My pet hate with the A1200 was that it didn't come with any fast ram, nor the provision to add any beyond the trapdoor. A single SIMM slot and requisite glue logic on the motherboard would not have broken the bank and would have made the machine far more capable out of the box.
Agreed 100%. But by this time the beancounters were fully in control of C=. Which is probably why it didn't even have a full 020 which would have made more sense imho.
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I'll pour out some haterade...even though most of it has already been served up.
A2000 no real difference between that and the A500 save the slots. Should've had onboard SCSI. But we got that in the 3000.
A3000 ZIP RAM. Ugh. 30 pin SIMMs would've saved a lot of headaches. Also: that godawful riser card instead of inline slots. A4000 was guilty of the same crime. The cost of that over the trouble it must've caused is ridiculous.
A4000: fixed the ZIP RAM issue...aaaaaand ditched SCSI. WTF, guys. WTF.
A1200. Oh man where to start. No Fast RAM? Cut down 020? Shitty 2.5" IDE interface? And I mean it is shitty. A1200 should've sported an 030, Akiko and a couple SIMM sockets - it might have given the Amiga a little more breathing room. FPS's are by and large what ate the Amiga's lunch in gaming terms; if the HW to do those games had been ready to go when the 1200 came out.
Ah, what could have been...
Oh, I forgot: EVERYTHING ABOUT THE A600.
EVERYTHING.
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I can't believe no one mention the need of a scandoubler...
Always seemed retarded to me to have included such incredible graphics capabilities into the amiga but need a hardware hack to handle the funky scanrates and to do decent resolution.
The 1200 should have had a scandoubler built in and regular vga out like the 3000.
The lack of a built in hd controller on the 500 always bugged me too. I couldn't afford a hard drive addon at the time, so I had to deal with
ten tons of floppy disks for everything. Part of the reason I went to a pc was because I could buy a whole 486 with a hard drive for the cost of
just a hard drive add on for the 500.
Upgrading these machines past the factory specs is always very expensive, thats a real down side if you ask me. Who cares if the entry point is so cheap if you need to shell out another 3 or 5 hundred bucks
to get a hard drive, accellerator and so on?
Steven
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No different to a PC of the day. And the PC, trust me was crap. I priced out like for like before I bought my Amiga 1200 in 1993 and the PC was more expensive. And having experienced a PC of the day trust me you didn`t want to go there.
Computing in those days was very expensive. What ever you ran. The Amiga was way ahead of its competitors in multitasking, animations etc and thats why. The Amiga though was the only model that let you start modest and build to your own pace. Unlike the tinboxes and Macs of the day.
As for 1998 ....
By 1998 the market of supply and demand was such that because of the falling user base the makers of the 060 had to lift the price to stay alive. Personally I would still pay those prices now if I could get a new Cyberstorm.... ar hum.
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
Please move to the PC Bashing thread. :madashell:
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Please move to the PC Bashing thread. :madashell:
Why? It was a perfectly valid comparison for machines of that age.
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IIRC it was around £100 more. Admittedly by this time C= had all but squashed Atari. And as you say, the internals of the Falcon were not as advanced.
Well, the 16-bit bus was kinda sucky but the falcon's hardware had some decent capabilities. It could do 16-bit chunky mode IIRC, which beyond AGA's capabilities, Akiko or not.
I think that adding a full blown 030 to the 1200 would have pushed the price up beyond the Falcons, possibly not by a huge margin, but maybe enough to have let Atari back into the game.
Now, the one thing I think the 1200 should have had but didn't, but that the Falcon did, was a MIDI port. I would guess that it would have made it much more appealing to you Karlos.
Actually, not the MIDI, after all, MIDI interfaces for the amiga were cheap and you could make one yourself easily enough. One bit of hardware in the falcon that interested me was the DSP. It was probably that, more than the 030, that increased the price.
Agreed 100%. But by this time the beancounters were fully in control of C=. Which is probably why it didn't even have a full 020 which would have made more sense imho.
Yes, especially if you were adding SIMM sockets to the design.
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Please move to the PC Bashing thread. :madashell:
You obviously didn`t read what I wrote....
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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It would have been nice if the controller ports were installed on the side or front, it was very frustrating to change the controller/mouse all the time playing games =).
The controller ports are on the front of the A2000. But you refused to buy an A2000 so they tried switching them over to the side on the A3000. But you refused to buy an A3000 also. So Commodore concluded that easy access controller ports didn't really affect sales. =)
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no kerning, makes all of your printing look amaturish
Amiga kerns perfectly. Use Pagestream. Or any good word processor or DTP program.
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You do realise there is a program on Aminet to let you do just that... Often appeared on cover disks. Personally I like the clicking given that the Amiga is so quiet. Like a heartbeat.
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
I like the clicking too. It reminds me that I'm using an Amiga.
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Hi,
@Kthunder,
The reason Commodore had the disk drive constantly running was to recognize the insertion of a disk, then it would automatically load. Thanks to a smart programmer he was able to shut down the drive, and still have it determine if a disk was inserted. Workaround emmm yes, but then when you reload the Amiga Os the machine was really fast because you didn't have to hit the OK on the Insert disk 2 question like you did on other machines.
smerf
IIRC, NoClick came out during the AmigaOS 1.3 days and I think 95% of Amiga users used it. It always amazed me that Commodore never thought to implement NoClick's functionality as standard in AmigaOS 2.x or even 3.x
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Well my main complaints are basic AmigaOS related ones:
What the hell were they thinking when they created a Prefs folder with a million preferences program piled in it (actually fifteen prefrences programs on 3.0/3.1)?
Couldnt they simply created a centralized one with all the details much like ProDad p.O.S. or MorphOS have?
BTW, this complaint remains valid on 3.9 and even in 4.1. No one seems sane enough to fix this, or even acknowledge all this. They even make it worse. I hope no one ever releases OS5 or OS6, because we will need to take an internship just to get the grips on all the different preferences programs alone!
I don't really mind the number of Prefs programs. To me, having a Prefs directory with a dozen different programs is really no different than having a Prefs program with a dozen different Tabs. The real issue, I think, is the names of these programs. Unless you've been an Amiga user for a while, the names are complete gibberish. You have to rely more on what the icons look like than anything else.
I understand there may be some legal issues with trying to change the names of some of these programs but, at the very least, Prefs should have subdirectories like, "Graphics", "Sound", "Printers", "Input", etc. That would help a little bit.
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make the damn floppy drive stop clicking!
I might be weird, but I like the floppy drive click! Makes you know it's alive!
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@haywirepc
Scandoubler... you're absolutely right. I had two a1000's a 3000 and a 1200 and one of the reasons I chose the 3000 and 1200 and liked the 1000's is that the 1000, and 1200 could output composite video and the 3000 output vga.
We have discussions all the time here on Amiga.org about scandoublers, lcd tvs and other display related headaches.
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I agree with mpiva; I don't mind the number of prefs programs.. but the naming and organisation could be confusing to a new user.
Not like Window$ is much better in this regard... I'd been trying to get a WiFi adapter to work on my WinXP machine... had endless trouble remembering if I had to check 'network connections' 'Wireless connections', the software that came with the adapter, or whatever....
About the floppy click... OK, I use 'anticlick' or similar on all my machines... But it serves one purpose for me.... I freak out when patches slow down the boot... If I hear the click (before MCP runs) I know at least the machine is trying to boot...
Kerning.... As mentioned, if you use any decent WP or DTP program, the issue should be minimal.... But, I would have loved some advice/FAQs on setting up kerning tables... Wordworth alludes to this, but helps little...
Only 2MB chip RAM.... Bummer... But, in defense of the Amiga designers, they prob. never imagined how memory needs would increase, or the types of progs. we'd be running years from that point... Man, if only the 'Free Beer' jumper actually worked :)
Printing system... yup, it sucks... I confess I've not printed under 3.5/3.9 directly.... I was already using TurboPrint then.... Related... scalable fonts should have been available the second an '020 accel. was available for any Amiga... And programs adapted for said fonts.
I'll think of other things later..... Regardless, I still love my miggies :hammer:
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I had no gripes with my A500 during the first few years except maybe the annoying controller ports and lack of 2nd joystick button support as standard.
Later on in it's life the integrated motherboard and the proprietary nature of the Amiga's architecture was its Achilles heel when it came to trying to upgrade. It was cheaper to buy a whole new PC, so I did.
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There were some things that could have been better done - But there's nothing I "hate" about the Amiga, with the possible exception of a guy named Irving...
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I like the clicking too. It reminds me that I'm using an Amiga.
No matter how many times I put a floppy in a PC I still expected it to autodetect and stick an icon on the desktop. Having the floppy clicking made me always think the Amiga was ready and waiting and wanting of those floppies. Where as the PC almost was saying ' What you put that in there for ' :-)
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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@scuzzb494
You have a PC with a floppy drive??? I haven't seen one of those in years. Windows happily detects and open all modern media (USB sticks, DVDs, CDs) but old technology was left to die...
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@scuzzb494
You have a PC with a floppy drive??? I haven't seen one of those in years. Windows happily detects and open all modern media (USB sticks, DVDs, CDs) but old technology was left to die...
I have many PCs with floppy drives and ZIP disks even 5.25" disks. I like to be able to read most media.
Only time I take the floppy out is if I need the space in these tiny units for say another drive.
I thought there was an issue with Microsoft and the copyright on auto opening disks. I'm sure I read that somewhere....
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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having the controller ports on the front was a great idea on the A2000.
As far as design mistakes...
why no fast ram on the 1200 ?
Why no push for cd roms after the cdtv ? Might as well as used the technology for something, and I'd have liked Beneath a steel sky on a CD instead of 15 floppies
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The 1200 trapdoor.
The amount of physical effort it's taken me to shove my Apollo 1240 in that is beyond belief. Even then, the trapdoor is so shallow that the 68040 fan doesn't fit in the keyboard slant - causing the whole card to poke of the trapdoor - and I've had to mount the Amiga on legs so that the card doesn't touch the desk.
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1. The A520 tv modulator. It is bad enough that the modulator wasn't included internally in the A500 (just like ALL Commodore 8-bits), but having this big ugly thing sticking out from the back of the Amiga was a bit annoying. The worst thing is that because of it's size it put some strain on the motherboard connector, and I often had to wiggle it a bit just to get a somewhat decent display. Sadly, this was a solution often used on other devices too (like parallel sound samplers), and I can't figure out why it was so hard to have a wire with plug that went from these devices to the Amiga. It would have made it easier to place the tv/monitor behind the Amiga as well.
2. The power switch. All Commodore 8-bits had one included on the computer, and this meant that their PSU's could easily be hidden under the table. But this was not the case with the A500, A600 & 1200, because here the user had to have this ugly box in plain sight just for being able to easily swith the Amiga on/off. Why on earth couldn't a power switch been present on these Amigas as well? Even the Ataris had this functionality (afaik).
3. The A1200 keyboard adapters. Why on earth have they this large DIN connector instead of a smaller PS/2 one? As far as I know, only the A2000 keyboard uses a DIN plug, and I can understand that it makes it easier for those who want to use this keyboard with the A1200, but what about the people who wants to use PS/2 instead? I would like to think that they were in majority, so why on earth did they have to use an adapter on the adapter?
Hope I'm not sounding too harsh here, because this is in reality only minor issues when thinking about the many hours of enjoyment my Amigas have given me over the years :-)
Oh and by the way, I see people mentioning the annoying floppy drive clicking here. Well the easiest solution for getting rid of this has always been to simply insert a floppy into the drive :-)
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1. The A520 tv modulator
No disagreement from me here.
2. The power switch. All Commodore 8-bits had one included on the computer, and this meant that their PSU's could easily be hidden under the table.
This was also something that took a bit of getting used to. C64s only had 2 voltages to cut, whereas you've got 5V/12V/-12V on the Amigas you'd need to cut, maybe it was just cheaper/easier for them to put it on the supply.
3. The A1200 keyboard adapters. Why on earth have they this large DIN connector instead of a smaller PS/2 one? As far as I know, only the A2000 keyboard uses a DIN plug
The same large DIN connector was used on PC, A2000 and A3000 keyboards, and were far more widespread when those adapters were new. (It is getting tough to find PC keyboards with the old AT connector around here these days, though.) The ones that could use both old PC keyboards and A2000/A3000 keyboards were pretty flexible.
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The controller ports are on the front of the A2000. But you refused to buy an A2000 so they tried switching them over to the side on the A3000. But you refused to buy an A3000 also. So Commodore concluded that easy access controller ports didn't really affect sales. =)
Oh, cool! I didnt realise that =). Maybe I'm just too "low-end" user with my A1200/500.
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The A520 modulator gets my vote.
Nothing really was a pet hate hardware wise, I thought it was pretty good overall (I didn't have a big box Amiga). There are some things that I think would have been nice...
1) A500+ and A600 to use 14MHz 68000. A relatively simple improvement that would have encouraged more people to get these systems, and existing A500 owners to upgrade, which might have made Commodore some money (and increased the market via second hand Amigas). It would also have been good for 3D games as CPU speed had a direct impact on performance.
2) In addition the old A1000 should have been retained and kept the same specs as the premium consumer machine of the day (A1000+). The A2000 looked terrible.
3) A1200 IDE connector. Not-quite standard PCMCIA connector. Never-used FPU area. Tiny trapdoor. Lack of fast-ram SIMM slot.
4) Brick-like external PSUs with thick cables (A500, A1200).
5) CD32 should have been 1MB chip + 1MB fast. Never mind AGA missing out an 8-bit chunky mode, but that's an entire different argument (AGA deficiencies / dream Amiga chipset / etc).
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I think my biggest pet peeve is that every time an A3000(T) or A4000(T) comes up for sale I'm short on funds :lol:.
Honestly I think the biggest peeve is that my LED cluster on the A2000 doesn't sit flush with the front panel.
When you put the A2000 top on don't do up the side screws first. Check that the tab on the underside back of the cover isnt bent (common problem) straighten it out and fasten the back screw first. That should make the led mount flush. Then do the side screws.
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The 1200 trapdoor.
The amount of physical effort it's taken me to shove my Apollo 1240 in that is beyond belief. Even then, the trapdoor is so shallow that the 68040 fan doesn't fit in the keyboard slant - causing the whole card to poke of the trapdoor - and I've had to mount the Amiga on legs so that the card doesn't touch the desk.
Hmmm, Not a CBM problem I would hazard..
Other accelerators fit snug, but I supose the 040 & 060 chips take up much more space than CBM would have imagined.
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With amiga owner track record with upgrades, commodore should have realised most people would go with the 1200 and given it a better sized trapdoor. they gave the slot some pretty impressive capabilities but not enough space in the trapdoor to fit a device to use them all.
Imagine a card with 060, two simm slots, clock, pentium pc emu or ppc, fast buffered ide or scsi, sound chip, and rtg video. the slot could handle it (with a psu upgrade) but there is noway you would fit anything like that in there.
at the time i wondered why noone built an almost flat case filled with goodies that the 1200 could sit on top of, that would connect with a cable throught the trapdoor.
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I happen to like the floppy drive click too and the automatic detection on insertion... I still have to use a lot of floppy disks in work, and it does my head in having to refresh the drive window every time because I forget the PC doesn't notice I've swapped the disk. I don't think Commodore can be faulted really for not including more stuff in the 1200 (030 and fast RAM for a start) because cost was such a huge thing. The A1200 was already a relatively expensive computer and an extra hundred pounds would've been enough to drive it totally out of the casual gaming market where the Megadrive and SNES were ruling.
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GOOFY DB-23 connectors!
Why in the world would someone use such an odd connector blows my mind. With Commodore being so cost conscious, you'd think they'd go with something much more standard!
And then they went and used the stupid thing TWICE!!! Video AND floppy connectors.
Gotta really love engineers sometimes. Keeps you from wanting to throttle their little pencil necks.
At least that's my opinion.
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cost was a huge thing but commodore had the 1200 selling for way under what anything else was and the 4000 selling for way above anything else.
If they had gone more for middle ground they could have added features to the 1200 and sold more 4000s
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A500 - Modulator of low quality and external device. No on/off switch on A500 only on PSU.
A500 Plus - Stupid useless screen modes when what we all wanted was 128 colours in 320x256/512 which existed in 1987 thanks to Jay's work. Modulator. PSU
A600 - PSU on/off switch.
A1200 - Only chip ram on motherboard so 50% speed loss for all stock A1200s sold, and PSU on/off switch. Lack of upgraded Paula in AGA OR a dual Paula design (they put dual SID in C65 to address the fact Bob Yannes left and they were stuck with SID warts and all). Lack of chunky byte per pixel screen mode making 256 colour screens a real chore.
General stuff - No official C= CDROM drives for A1200. No Internet strategy at Commodore within Workbench 3 in 1994.
I would say horrible plasticy keyboards but as they're budget machines that's understandable, and as the A2000 and A1000 have excellent keyboards clearly it's a cost issue.
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cost was a huge thing but commodore had the 1200 selling for way under what anything else was and the 4000 selling for way above anything else.
If they had gone more for middle ground they could have added features to the 1200 and sold more 4000s
At 399 the original A1200 wasn't 'too cheap' at all. It had a 14mhz bare minimum 32bit CPU crippled to 50% speed as purchased due to all machines sold being 2mb chip ram, no CD-ROM package bundle from Commodore, no 16bit sound or increased number of sound channels. A1200 was NOT overpriced at all. Simm slot for internal simple fast ram addition, dual Paula and a proper chunky pixel mode was not too much to ask for 399 really. HD floppy drive also would have been nice, the price difference for the DD/HD units must have been peanuts anyway. Oh and it should have been A1200 in 92 and A4000 later in 93...NOT the other way round if they wanted an AGA machine to fend off bankruptcy.
But I agree, there should have been an A1300 or something with internal CD, 28mhz 020, and 2mb+1mb Chip + Fast ram as a standard machine. This would have helped a lot as games programmers then had a target machine intended for home buyers to aspire towards.
Also such a machine should have come with a fully functional internet browser and all the necessary networky black magic to make it work (and a non crippled serial port too allowing at least 33.6kb modems to work unencumbered).
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The 1200 trapdoor.
The amount of physical effort it's taken me to shove my Apollo 1240 in that is beyond belief. Even then, the trapdoor is so shallow that the 68040 fan doesn't fit in the keyboard slant - causing the whole card to poke of the trapdoor - and I've had to mount the Amiga on legs so that the card doesn't touch the desk.
Error: User bought the wrong accellerator.
The 68030 and 68060 cards don't have fans and don't need fans and fit nicely.
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I happen to like the floppy drive click too and the automatic detection on insertion... I still have to use a lot of floppy disks in work, and it does my head in having to refresh the drive window every time because I forget the PC doesn't notice I've swapped the disk. I don't think Commodore can be faulted really for not including more stuff in the 1200 (030 and fast RAM for a start) because cost was such a huge thing. The A1200 was already a relatively expensive computer and an extra hundred pounds would've been enough to drive it totally out of the casual gaming market where the Megadrive and SNES were ruling.
I hated the floppy click.
And as to the cost thing? Yeah, C= should've trodden into the Cadillac price range with the 1200 because Apple was already there, as were comparable PCs. But by the time of the 1200, C= management was raping and pillaging the company. They had to put up a good enough front (that they were interested in selling computers that were an advance over their old ones) to keep the investors' money coming in as they were sucking it dry. Not going with 030 and Fast RAM meant more money for them. Don't ascribe any kind of altruism to C= cost cutting.
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commodore diversified their product in the 80's by taking one basic system and building variants of it. The 1000, 500, and 2000 are very similar hardware wise. the 3000 and 600 were different of course but the focus then was on the 3000 powerhouse.
in the 90's they made two completely different systems. they should have made a slightly beefier 1200 with an 030 and 2megs chip 2megs fast for a little more money. And the 4000 should have been a 1200 with a bus controller and slots, in a big box case, for a bit more.
they would have sold a few less 1200s and probably quite a few more 4000s and then with the 4000t they could have added scsi more slots and other goodies.
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But I agree, there should have been an A1300 or something with internal CD, 28mhz 020, and 2mb+1mb Chip + Fast ram as a standard machine. This would have helped a lot as games programmers then had a target machine intended for home buyers to aspire towards.
Yeah, I agree that Commodore could have done a dual launch of the A1200, and an A1400 at a higher price (£200 more?) with 4MB (2+2), 28MHz 68020/30, and HD floppy.
Data CD drives were very young still, and expensive - don't forget these. I don't think the lack of a CD drive at launch or thereabouts was a major problem for the A1200. HD floppies would have saved some pain for larger AGA games though.
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Error: User bought the wrong accellerator.
The 68030 and 68060 cards don't have fans and don't need fans and fit nicely.
Pah, where's your sense of adventure? There was absolutely no mistaking when my A1200 was turned on. That damned 'orrible whiney fan on my Apollo 1240 turbo was so loud...
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A few niggles, let's say...
1: All of those cooling-slots on the top of the A500/600/1200 (same goes for the C64!) seem to be designed to attract and hold dust and be almost impossible to clean (without a scrubbing brush and water!)
2: The constant clicking/active floppy drives!
3: No proper VGA/SVGA non-interlaced, 24 bit modes in AGA
4: Location of the mouse ports - all over the place on the big-box Amigas...
5: The impossibly tight-fit of the A1200 expansion slot - maybe the expansion card makers are also to blame a bit? Why not make the cards (or slot) easier to fit stuff into?
6: The A4000 case - as ugly as a bag of spanners
7: Did I mention the ugly A4000 case?
:-)
Mike.
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@mingle
"7: Did I mention the ugly A4000 case?"
i think with the 3000 they were trying to make a case as cool as the 1000's and with the 4000 they were trying to make one as ugly as the 2000 :)
i think all the wedge cases looked really cool but were very impractical, once you got all the wires connected.
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mingle:
The 4000 case isn't That bad.... I've seen worse.... :)
But yeah, the cooling slots.... a pain, to be sure.... I keep an old small bristle brush around just because it's sized just right to clean those slots....
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Error: User bought the wrong accellerator.
The 68030 and 68060 cards don't have fans and don't need fans and fit nicely.
Guru Meditation: I realise this but cannot afford an 060.
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Thought I'd post a new thread to celebrate my 500th anniversary.
There are many little "things" about classic Amiga's that p*** people off.
In the spirit of positive feedback: It's the way products become better: CIP. Not that that will help with classics. But:
Why on the A500, A600 and A1200 is there a lip on the back that makes it impossible to see the connectors from above....Grrr...?
Any other pet hates ?
Hi,
What really makes me angry about my Amiga's is the way they were put together, you had to have an engineering degree on "How to take apart an Amiga" when you wanted to change or look at something, the A3000 was horrible, the A4000 was worse, the A2000 was just hard, and the A1200 had a course on "How to bandaid your hands after popping all those sharp tinny tabs" As a matter of fact Commodore came out with band aid instructions after the A1000. How many of you put off something on the Amiga to the week end because you know you had to pull it apart to put something in it?
smerf
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Damned PIO IDE interface in the A1200 :( Should have been DMA driven. Other than that, very little :)