Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: haywirepc on June 06, 2010, 10:33:53 PM
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What great drama creating this computer that was 20 years ahead of its time... Damn thats drama...
More drama as amiga progressed but never gained the market share that it should have...
Fast forward some years...
There is the real amiga company dying... Then bought by escom, then gateway... then Silly Billy the retard...
There is the AMIGA INC - Silly Billy's attempt to rape the amiga name and make a living from it... Failing miserably...
MorphOS gets fucked out of becoming the new Amiga OS. Hyperion gets the job but takes years longer than agreed to finish anything....
Also numerous attempts by many companies claiming they had the perfect amiga clone but never releasing any products... But hey no really, the prototypes worked...
We have amiga forever, cloanto somehow being the only people legally able to sell roms for amiga os? - Is that shit still legal now or can I just bit torrent all their roms and software without worry because they never proved that no one else is allowed to sell/copy/give amiga os away?
MINIMIG is no joke, that shit is great and actually works and is available!
FPGA amiga's make their debut and soon may even allow AGA.
Next, we have the hyperion verses amiga inc drama and legal battle...
Long, drawn out... who won? Not Silly Billy, he is selling his ass for
rent money right now apparently.
Netami says their new improved amiga clone will someday ship...
But still has not delivered a single board after 2 years of hype...
Also lots of aging overpriced ppc motherboards offered... My phone has more power than many of those...
NEXT Hyperion wins court battle...
Silly Billy vanishes....
Lately...
Hyperion putting all their hopes on this x1000 but no one has seen one work yet... End of summer release? Why no videos, demos, something?
Gee, do you think they might miss the release date for this hardware?
Dude its June, end of summer is 2 months away, and no one has any idea
what the keyboard and mouse looks like. (including the people apparently making this computer, after several emails no reply on request)
In the meantime...
MorphOS ports to mac hardware.... Reactions to this decision are mixed with some calling for x86 port, and others claiming that was a great idea.
At least MorphOS keeps alive... For now.
AROS keeps building, some hw guys decide to cash in on an open source project, angering many in that camp...
Some people apparently aren't too happy that after so many people contributed to AROS, that some companies are selling hardware with AROS
installed, making money essentially off of everyone else's hard work, without paying any of the aros developers except those required to finish their hardware projects.
X1000 is well awaited. MorphOS keeps gaining ground. AROS is also gaining ground... Whats next, and also, what did I miss?
Perhaps why I love amiga is not just the hardware, not just the software, but its like a ridiculous movie I'd like to make when you think of all this drama revolving... Great stuff!
Add your own drama to this thread please!
Steven
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Looks like you got it covered.
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Also lots of aging overpriced ppc motherboards offered... My phone has more power than many of those...
That is the biggest drama of all, and even worse, DCE is doing absolutely nothing with it :(
They have all the stuff from Phase5, schematics, designs, but it's just rotting away in their basement in a dark corner in some scruffy file cabinet :smack:
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looks like you got it covered.
x2 ;)
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I guess you can toss in the original drama and conspiracy from the fall of Commodore
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That is the biggest drama of all, and even worse, DCE is doing absolutely nothing with it :(
They have all the stuff from Phase5, schematics, designs, but it's just rotting away in their basement in a dark corner in some scruffy file cabinet :smack:
RHoS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive)
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RHoS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive)
Does that apply to North America? My "new" GVP Spectrum, I don't think, is RoHS :)
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I doubt that A1200 "Magic Packs" are ROHS compliant.
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Like most "Amigas", there is plenty of drama to go around.
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I doubt that A1200 "Magic Packs" are ROHS compliant.
Doesn't apply as they were manufactured prior to the cut-off date. They're classed as new old stock.
As far as the GVP stuff goes, if they're not ROHS compliant, they could not legally be shipped to the EU if they were new (this does not apply to the US), however again, if it's simply a case of selling off of old stock, this won't apply.
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@haywirepc
That's the drama so far yes, nice conlcusion.
Regardnig AROS hardware, I hope "some people" realize that those two guys selling AROS hardware actually are contributing more to AROS than "some people" probably ever donated in their lifetime. It's a give and take and to me it seems they've given alot more and I doubt they yet made one cent profit.
Just wanted to point that out.
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Where are those children, send them up the chimney, come on have you cleaned it yet.
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@Cluster
I've done my best to help, but it's not good, we are going to have to sell your children for medical experiments. Now about that Silent iMica ;-)
TrevorD
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I Should have said, amiga conspiracies, drama and rumors...
You never really know whats what, but these are all things I hear.
I also hear silly billy is a crack addict too, and his new plan is to start
"Atari International", he thinks he might be able to convince the atari crowd he is making new machines and also that atari anywhere will be the next big thing... but that too,could just be a rumor.
Steven
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@haywirepc
That's the drama so far yes, nice conlcusion.
Regardnig AROS hardware, I hope "some people" realize that those two guys selling AROS hardware actually are contributing more to AROS than "some people" probably ever donated in their lifetime. It's a give and take and to me it seems they've given alot more and I doubt they yet made one cent profit.
Just wanted to point that out.
As the original hardware guy of AROS, let me explain something. Without having any OEMs supporting AROS, AROS will have zero chance in having real growth. This is chicken and egg bit, AROS needs the OEMs as much as it need Devs. Not all Devs are seeing the fruit yet, well, life is never fair either. They either need to advertise their talents for pay or deal with it until AROS can grow large enough for paid Devs to become a reality. I do question how many Devs are not happy with it since they got involved in AROS, a well known open source project, if they had intentions of getting paid for their work in the first place.
Last time I checked, Linus is not getting paid a royalty either by the OEMs. But he is in a OEMs funded job.
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As the original hardware guy of AROS, let me explain something. Without having any OEMs supporting AROS, AROS will have zero chance in having real growth.
AROS is having some growth at the moment. "Real growth" can happen when AROS does everything every other OS does but faster or in a more efficient way. Seriously I can't see any of the Amiga systems out there today to have any real growth anytime soon.
For AROS, Imica and Ares is just a common denominator for hardware that runs AROS fine. If that helps attract new devs and users then that's just great. So their efforts fixes the hardware problem part for the moment. What's much needed now is dev.tools that makes programming for AROS easy and good documentation. If AROS scares away devs as soon as they get it running then that's AROS biggest problem now.
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What's much needed now is dev.tools that makes programming for AROS easy and good documentation. If AROS scares away devs as soon as they get it running then that's AROS biggest problem now.
That is where IMICA Ganymede IDE will come in. This will be a very important step in Aros development, but it will also change things, this product is a professional tool for Amiga flavours starting with Aros development to give new developers what they are used too in a Visual Studio kind of way. Syntax Highlighting, Intellisense, true debugging tools break, step, continue and a visual window layout tool as well.
I hope this will be on show in Bletchley.
We will see how developers feel about paying for development tools for Aros, the same costing model as professional tools like Cubic IDE, Hollywood etc.
If Aros wants professional quality tools then there will be a cost involved. You will be able to try this system before you buy it too.
@Trevordick
My poor kids and those medical experiments for money to fund Aros, it really is not on ;-)
@all
In all seriousness however, if you think there is money to be made in Aros right now, think again. None of us make money, however, our aim is to try and make the Amiga market generally more succesful and maybe later make a reasonable profit for our efforts. Remember I have on my site instructions on how to build an IMICA and so it is almost an Open Source hardware project with a we build it for you offer.
Steve
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Commodore USA have started releasing products....and yes.....they are paying royalties for the logo/name while they are in negotiations for a long term agreement.
Commodore USA is the best hope for AROS, and the success and proliferation of any Amiga-like OS, whether you like it or not.
*****IF/WHEN****** AROS becomes a standard fixture on Commodore machines any time soon, I have assurances that Commodore would contribute to the AROS community and fund some further development that will benefit everyone. You will see a snowballing of interest and activity in AROS ****IF/WHEN**** Commodore gets involved.
Commodore USA are for real and are not a scam. Even if the hardware is not for you, they are sure to sell machines in the tens of thousands, and renew interest in an Amiga experience that could spur many great developments for every Amiga-like OS and their vendors. This would be most befitting of the Amiga's 25th Anniversary and I really hope we can get past silly coloured wars and revive a mainstream Amiga experience, which is what we've all been waiting for since Commodore's demise.
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Quite a lot of drama but that does only mean ONE thing, people care about the Amiga still and we can still kill the PC/Apple if things work out the way they should..
If we keep a positive attitutide we can do it!
and yes, my A1200 030 is still faster than my quad kor workstation... (not) :)
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they are paying royalties for the logo/name while they are in negotiations for a long term agreement.
This'll be interesting to see backed up with evidence.
they are paying royalties for the logo/name
Commodore USA is the best hope for AROS, and the success and proliferation of any Amiga-like OS, whether you like it or not.
Actually I think you'll find that as far as hardware goes, the iMica is far better placed since it uses hardware specifically tailored to best support AROS's somewhat limited driver base. It also has the benefit of not looking like a complete scam.
Commodore USA are for real and are not a scam.
Having seen far too many to recall, and having seen the comparison of some of the text between amongst others, Apple and more recently (and worryingly) Merlancia and AmigaUSA, I have to say I'm deeply sceptical about them. I haven't completely written them off, but it'd be fair to say that they're about a hairs breadth away from that. I imagine I'm not alone in this feeling either.
they are sure to sell machines in the tens of thousands
I'll have whatever you're smoking, clearly that is some potent stuff.
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@the_leander
Here we go again. Fine...we'll wait and see then.
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Commodore USA is the best hope for AROS, and the success and proliferation of any Amiga-like OS, whether you like it or not.
The way you keep drumming these things is amazing. Commodore USA couldn't have found a better marketroid.
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-deleted-
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@the_leander
Here we go again. Fine...we'll wait and see then.
Assuming that people take your word for it, and it turns out to be another Merlancia. You do realise that as the (unofficial?) face of this shower, you can expect some heinous amounts of flack headed your way if this goes south, right?
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@haywirepc
Do I have to go through this with you every time on every thread?
Honestly, you're such a kill-joy Steven.
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@haywirepc
Do I have to go through this with you every time on every thread?
Honestly, you're such a kill-joy Steven.
That's right, Steven is totally a killjoy for stating the facts as they are known and potentially steering people away from a dubious unknown quantity!
How dare he! Who does he think he is pointing out the truth eh? Next thing you know he'll be mocking you!
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@haywirepc
Do I have to go through this with you every time on every thread?
Honestly, you're such a kill-joy Steven.
Can I make a small suggestion.
I know you are committed to this, that is evident, but perhaps just hold off the discussions except by email until you are ready to ship. Once you ship it will be evident that all is happening as you said.
I wish you all the best with this project as you can be a customer of my development system and maybe push other new developers into my user base when we ship IMICA Ganymede IDE.
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@clusteruk
Thanks for your advice. You're absolutely right.
I'll just focus on my efforts to get AROS on to Commodore machines, and I can only hope for the best.
There's no point pushing against such negativity until there is visible progress from Commodore USA on that front.
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Its the new announcement from Commodore Inc on their newest Amiga Rsurrecting product!
Exclusive images here:
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RHoS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive)
I don't think that's the problem.
They have reworked the Blizzard 1230 IV @ 50Mhz into the E-matrix, which http://www.vesalia.de/e_ematrix1230.htm sells.
I'm sure there is a reason for not bringing Cyberstorms, but I would like to hear it from a close source over there @ DCE.
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I don't believe Amiga will ever become mass market hardware again in any shape or form compared to Wintel PCs or even Macs. Hell look at how many mistakes Apple DON'T make and yet how little inroads they make into the lion's share of the home computer Wintel market or even persuading big companies to develop full price cutting edge games for Intel Macs. What chance has a dead company (Amiga Inc) and another one selling sticky labels for cheap tat running on pathetic Atom CPUs for rebadging purposes got today?
No company interested in becoming a third alternative has the cash to invest in the hardware side, and no company with the financial power (Google, IBM etc) is interested in doing anything via hardware.
I suppose technically it wouldn't be impossible to reverse engineer the basic design of the Xbox 360 motherboard with ATI Xenos GPU and PPC Xenon tri-core CPU with more memory to run a nice OS. Still it isn't going to happen despite the fact that rewriting OS4 for the 360 CPU would be quite trivial technically as it included the standard PPC instruction set already.
Not that anything like that will happen for us.
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AROS keeps building, some hw guys decide to cash in on an open source project, angering many in that camp...[1]
Some people apparently aren't too happy that after so many people contributed to AROS, that some companies are selling hardware with AROS
installed, making money essentially off of everyone else's hard work, without paying any of the aros developers except those required to finish their hardware projects.
Steven
[1] Citation needed.
I am an AROS developer and follow both the developer list and aros-exec and I don't get the vibe you try to describe. Both ClusterUK and phoenixkonsole are considered part of the AROS community as they are giving back.
greets,
Staf.
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-deleted-
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As far as any Aros drama, perhaps thats just a rumor I heard from a fellow amiga fan.You could certainly see that given the situation, it sounds believable. If that is not the case then I apologise. I know some developers left to start annubis. (drama I forgot to list)
I'm an aros user and fan myself. I may buy an imica myself, but for now I'm fine with my home built box.
Steven
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The only nice thing about all this drama about Amiga not getting a new life, is that we've got alot of life in the classic range still. I doubt that anyone would be doing anything with the 68k range of Amiga if we had PPC/Risc Amigas ages ago from Commodore itself.
Nice in one way, since I can still use my old Amiga and enjoy new software and hardware for it. In the other way it's sad that we never had those NG Amigas from Commodore.... :(
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I honestly thing that if commodore USA want to look serious in their development and in bundling AROS, should invest like clusterUK and phoenixkonsole did, in funding bounties and coding of the drivers they need to bundle AROS effectively with their machines, as in the give and take relationship between vendor and developer that come out in the AROS community.
Saimon69
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I know some developers left to start annubis. (drama I forgot to list)
Steven
Yes, but that was because some people did not like the (lack of) project management of AROS (no schedule and rockin') and the source code compatibility requirement with AOS3.x of AROS.
greets,
Staf.
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I think that clusterUK is on the right path. The necessary pieces are:
Standard PC hardware. As much as the specialized hardware was great for it's day, standard PCs have that now, and the only reason not to use the economies that the PC brings is to be different for difference sake, even if that means a lower quality product.
UAE integration. A large faction, understandably so, will only consider a new system an 'Amiga' if it is backward compatible to the A500. I don't know if I would go that far, but it is a requirement to get me to dedicate hardware to it.
Catweasal integration. Looks like this is on the brink. Being able to read and write actual Amiga disks IS part of being backward compatible, and is a key feature that makes the emulation look and feel native.
AROS for 68k. Ok, ClusterUK hasn't taken this on yet, but baring some bizarre rip in the space time continuum that makes all of the Kickstarts freely distributable, Kickstart for the 68k is going to have to be tackled eventually for backwards compatibility to be taken seriously. Today, it requires purchasing a separate product, or finding an illegal copy on the internet. While neither is difficult, it does prevent a freely distributable out of the box solution. Given how much trouble proprietary solutions on the Amiga have cause, this seems like a problem to me.
Getting UAE to be 100% compatible. Inevitable. If people use it, eventually all of the compatibility from WinUAE will be added to UAE.
Trademark. Either the Amiga name needs to be secured, or AROS needs to replace Amiga as the name of the platform, and the name Amiga needs to be seen by the community as a subset of AROS. Getting AROS for 68k working so that all of the MiniMigs could be shipped with AROS pre-installed would go a long way in that.
Once those things happen, I would say that AROS was THE new Amiga.
Doing all the same things to get C64 software running seamlessly on the same machine would take it to another level yet.
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I think that clusterUK is on the right path. The necessary pieces are:
Doing all the same things to get C64 software running seamlessly on the same machine would take it to another level yet.
Interestingly, the Catweasel driver for Aros that I sponsored from Ian Gledhill can now read C64 5.25" disk if you have a 5.25" pc drive. Plus it will read Macintosh floppy disk if you have a 3.5" drive.
The only problem is that Catweasel is quite expensive but for those that can afford it is great.
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@all
Amiga.org is a family friendly site. Please keep the tone civil.
This thread is being closed. Feel free to start a new thread on this subject, just keep the tone civil.