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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Retrofan on June 05, 2010, 03:18:16 PM
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Hi:
Well, I have my Sandisk 16GB CF working with the patched Idefix and using SFS. In that I used partitions under 4gb. One thing I must say is I didn't do the format using SMS but the quick Workbench one. I don't know if I should use it now, as it's running fine.
The thing is I've bought a Trascend 32Gb CF and have installed it using SFS format, patched Idefix and three partitions: the bootable with 512Mb, the second with 3Gb and the latest with 28GB.
If I turn on the Amiga I get the Install disk screen. If I do with the install one I see no partitions, if I use HDToolBox it shows the partitions (only the first two ones), but if I save the changes or not doesn't matter because yes, after a reboot I got all the system working fine with all the partitions, but after a cold reboot I get again the install disk screen.
I've tried to use the HDInstallTools, but even saving changes I get always the install disk screen after a cold reboot (not after a quick one).
What's wr:confused:ng?
Ah! Yes, Thomas you're always wellcome...
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Known issue with some CF cards. Similar to the slow spin up problem of some harddrives. AFAIK nobody has found a solution for that yet. Just press Ctrl-A-A after power on.
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Dude, don't use a 16 GB CF card on your Amiga. Find a 1,2, 4 GB SandDisk card and go with that. You are asking for trouble.
Why would you need 16 or 32 GB?
I say with friendliness and experience.
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Its best to trust genuine Sandisk brand for use with the Amiga
We sell brand new 4GB CF Hard Drives (Sandisk brand/prepped/Amiga formatted) here:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=883
Note: Avoid Kingston branded CF cards due to Amiga compatibility problems.
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I've got a 4Gb Kingston elite pro CF that goes perfect. The 16GB Sandisk's one goes perfect too (after the nightmare with the Idefix problem). I believe I have no reason to format that one using SFS as I read, because at the instructions it says it's enough with a quick format, and it doesn't talk about using SFS format. Anyway, I've used it with the Trascend one.
I forgot to comment that the Sandisk Ultra CF I've got doubles the speed of the Sandisk Ultra II one (30MB/s against 15Mb/s). I thought Utra II should be better than "Ultra" alone, but it's the opposite.
Coudn't it be fixed changing something in the Startup sequence?
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Coudn't it be fixed changing something in the Startup sequence?
Use your brain. How should a file stored on the HDD be able to influence something if the entire HDD is not recognised?
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So do you think even if I make the partitions under 4Gb it won't work?
Yes... if you say it's a hardware problem, I can't do anything, but I don't give up so easily...:bitch:
About brains... I think I will taste yours...(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:7YA963UvYZ_F2M:http://guts.blogspot.es/img/zombie.jpg) (http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=http://guts.blogspot.es/img/zombie.jpg&imgrefurl=http://guts.blogspot.es/i2009-04/&usg=__7nsdg3u4i7LgH6_GjqBuSwZKvmE=&h=477&w=397&sz=125&hl=es&start=70&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=7YA963UvYZ_F2M:&tbnh=129&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dzombies%26start%3D60%26um%3D1%26hl%3Des%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1)
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I wonder how much magic you interpret into this partition thing. Partitions is a DOS feature. DOS is not even born when hard drives are recognised or not.
The first hard disk related OS part which jumps in after a reset is the hardware driver (scsi.device). It initialises the controller and checks which drives are connected. If your HDD is not recognised at this stage, it is completely ignored in all of the following steps. That's what happens in your Amiga.
The next step is that all recognised harddrives are checked for a valid partition table and a list of possible parttions is created.
Only now it is time for DOS to wake up. If no floppy disk is in the drives and if there are partitions in the list, then dos.library is initialised and the partitions are mounted, i.e. they are copied from the list created before in to the list of devices known to DOS.
You see, if the hardware driver does not recognise the HDD, then there is nothing in DOS or partitons or files which could change this.
About brains... I think I will taste yours...
Well, it's known that threadworms can learn from others by eating them. AFAIK this is not possible with humans (or humanoids).
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Well, like always it seems Thomas is right...(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:o65hu48vpWDpWM:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nJfctxrWYRs/SlI5i7m4N_I/AAAAAAAAAPw/urfuYj5M2qw/s320/mortadelo_y_filemon.jpg) (http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nJfctxrWYRs/SlI5i7m4N_I/AAAAAAAAAPw/urfuYj5M2qw/s320/mortadelo_y_filemon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://caminandoporlalinea.blogspot.com/2009/07/los-interrogatorios-de-mortadelo-y.html&usg=__jA4oCSuWk5xVIsyDygoZD_DfQEY=&h=285&w=244&sz=18&hl=es&start=16&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=o65hu48vpWDpWM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmortadelo%26um%3D1%26hl%3Des%26tbs%3Disch:1) but it isn't really a big problem, if you turn on the Amiga you only have to use the Ctrl-A-A when it asks for the floppy as Thomas said and it starts right.
As I'm a little perfectionist I will sell it to someone that has to own OS3.9 and a Whdload license as it will have 1,6GB of games installed. It has a patched Idefix (you should own it too) and Sys4Aga. I believe 80 euros is a good price (look: http://computers.pricegrabber.com/flash-memory/Transcend-32GB-CompactFlash-Card/m61755784.html (http://computers.pricegrabber.com/flash-memory/Transcend-32GB-CompactFlash-Card/m61755784.html) ).
It was installed for an A1200 with an internal Cd rom.
PM are wellcome!
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The first hard disk related OS part which jumps in after a reset is the hardware driver (scsi.device).
Sorry to insist, but coudn't a patched scsi.device solve the problem?
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Sorry to insist, but coudn't a patched scsi.device solve the problem?
Yes, but how do you want to patch it if you cannot boot? You would have to put the patch into some kind of ROM. For example you could make your own Kickstart ROM which contains the patched scsi.device and burn it into an EPROM to replace the original Kickstart ROM. Or a flash ROM like on the Deneb USB controller. IMHO the latter is even more sure than the former because it's not said that the patched scsi.device will help, but the Deneb does a reset to activate updated modules, just like OS 3.9's SetPatch and this reset will surely help.
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Thanks. I've come to the conclusion that pressing three buttons at the same time isn't the greatest problem in the world, I think I can do it, or if I forget how, I can write a manual...
About why to use a 32Gb CF, I've just discovered KGWHD preinstalled Whdload Games, and it seems they will take up much room on it...
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I'm going to copy 3,43 GB of KGWHD games using WinUAE. Before I had done drawers transfer using a PC with XP, but now I will use a Laptop with Vista. I didn't get the option of add Harddrive as I have in the XP and started to search in Google. I was going to try the -disablehardddrivesafetycheck, but I've discovered that if I make a shortcut of winuae.exe at the Desktop and simply make a right click on it and select Execute as Administrator I get the Add Harddrive option and I can read and write on it.
The question is: what do you need -disableharddrivesafetycheck for?
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what do you need -disableharddrivesafetycheck for?
You don't need it. It does not exist any more in recent versions of WinUAE. Older versions refused to add media with a PC partition table to WinUAE, even if it's empty. The command line option was the a around that. Recent versions have more intelligent checks. They only refuse to add drives with partitions on them.
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You guys have me a bit paranoid. Or rather Thomas does.
I see this discussion is for OS 3.x users, and it appears that OS 3.9 users do not have to worry about Hard Drive size limitations. Assuming I am reading all correctly.
The reason I am curious is because I just received a new Kingston 8Gb CF in the mail, I'm using OS 3.9, and was able to set up the Partition tables in WinUAE, format on the A1200, and boot without issues. Shouldn't I be having problems being that it is a Kingston? Is there something I have to worry about down the road such as random data loss or some jazz?
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There are only two major issues with CF cards:
1. if the CF card identifies itself as a removable device, then it might not be recognised on the Amiga or might be refused by HDToolbox and similar programs. Behaviour might be different depending on which driver you use, i.e. Kick 3.1 scsi.device, OS 3.9 scsi.device, IDEfix or something else.
If your Amiga accepts the card as a harddrive, then you are fine.
Some removable cards can be redefined as fixed with some PC software. AFAIK such software only exists for Sandisk cards, therefore if you cought a removable card of another brand, you've bad luck.
2. IDE devices like CF cards will produce corrupted data if the MaxTransfer value is too high. The maximum possible MaxTransfer value for IDE is 0x1fe00 (255 blocks of 512 bytes each). Unfortunately WB 3.1's HDToolbox defaults to 0xffffff which is way too high.
Make sure that your MaxTransfer is set correctly for all partitions, then you are fine.
If both of the above is taken care of, then the card should work, no matter which brand it is.
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Good to hear! :)
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Just an FYI. 8GB authentic SANDisk CFs work fine in an A1200 and A4000. Or at least they do in mine.
Gertsy
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Yep 2 Amiga 1200's rev 2B running Sandisk Ultra II and III CF 8GB, Delock CF Adapters and both Blizzard 1230IV with 64MB running Classic WB 3.1.
Both stable :)
These are the CF adapters:
(http://www.vesalia.de/pic/cfide4044adapter.jpg)
http://www.vesalia.de/e_cfide4044adapter.htm
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I don't know what happens. I've got two (well, I have three) CF: the 16Gb Sandisk and the 32 GB Transcend, and both have some problems. The Transcend has the cold boot one, but for the rest goes right, I've installed Boing Bag 3 and runs fine.
But the other, the Sandisk that was running fine crashes in the same Amiga when I try to install Boing Bag 2 with the Rom update. I've tried it twice with the same result. If I try it in WinUAE it runs Ok, but in the amiga only get a black screen. Why?
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In WinUAE, did you use uaehf.device or scsi.device? Uaehf.device has all the modern features that scsi.device lacks: it is able to handle large harddrives with both NSD and TD64 commands and it is independant of MaxTransfer issues.
So if you prepare a harddrive with uaehf.device all might work right in UAE but once you connect to the real Amiga it might not work at all.
And even if you use scsi.device in UAE it might still work better than scsi.device in the real Amiga, because with UAE there is Windows and USB in the middle which might filter out some incompatibilities.
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I used uaehf device in HDToolBox.
I'm gonna trying to do all in the PC with scsi.device.
I will make a copy of System (I have a copy of when it had BB1) to the PC and will reinstall the System drawers from the copy.
EDIT: No, I've remembered the last time I used the Amiga to make the partitions in this CF. Will try with WinUAE this time
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Anyone with experience with one of the dual CF adaptors?
Like the Addonics AD44MIDE2CF
http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp
Its a 44 pin adaptor that appears that the bottom card is master and the top is slave.
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I've just tried partitioning with WinUAE (HdTools as Uaehf), formating with SFS and have the BB2 crash again.
Before doing that I tried to see the partitions with HDTools setting it as scsi.device, but coudn't see the drive with it. I don't know much about WinUAE... how do I do it?
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When you add the harddrive, select IDE0 as controller. It's like real hardware: if you connect the HDD to one controller naturally it cannot be seen on another one.
In order to use IDE0 you need to make sure that you emulate a chipset which actually has an IDE controller and that your Kickstart ROM matches this chipset. Easiest way to be sure is to select A1200 from the quickstart menu. If you have an A1200 Kickstart ROM file, that is.
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Ok, I've got WinUAE working with the right Kickstart and IDE0, and made the partitions, but I get a message when I try to format using SFSformat saying "error while initiating the drive, packet request type unknown".
So I've done a quick format without any format (no fast system, no other selected). The thing is I made a copy of SFSformat on one of the partitions and tried to SFSformat in the Amiga, but I get the same message.
Anyway I will go on with the installation, as I believe it isn't neccesary to use that kind of format, is it?
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I believe it isn't neccesary to use that kind of format, is it?
I think this has already been discussed a thousand times: you don't need to format a harddrive and you should never format a flash memory drive!
There are no format commands for IDE anyway. The drives are formatted by the manufacturer and you need special manufacturer-specific software to format them again.
The commands issued by the Format program are translated into write commands by the IDE driver. This means that Format does nothing but to write garbage into each and every sector of the harddrive. This is completely unnecessary unless you want to safely destroy all data before you sell the drive.
Writing to every sector on the drive just stresses the drive and in case of flash memory, which has a limited amount of write cycles, significantly reduces the life time.
packet request type unknown
Are you sure you use SFS? You can only initialize SFS partitions with SFSFormat. This message implies that you try to format an FFS partition.
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I don't understand what you say about formatting. I never make any complete format since you told me so. I only do a quickformat, as it's a must. In this case I tried with SFSformat that is a quick one too, and finally did a WB quickformat without filling any add.
I followed your fantastic "Quick Installation Guide for OS3.9 on WinUAE (with CD-Rom support)" at some points like create emergency disk and unprotect the df0, and I did with DH0 too, as it didn't write all when it tried to self-install os3.9 from the Sys4Aga I installed first.
Well, it's true that I coudn't make the OS3.9 start from the Emergency Disk, as it didn't find unit 0 (I tried with unit 1 and 2 too, although I only have one cdrom in the laptop), but I installed without it and OS telling I must do it from it, but (that's extrange) with the Emergency disk inside at the end it said as I was installing from the floppy, to press enter if it was inside, and I did so.
The thing is I could install BB1 and BB2, and it worked in the PC, but again it crashed in the Amiga. At least I know it has no relationship with Idefix, as it wasn't installed.
As I see it now, there must be some kind of problem with this Sandisk Ultra CF and the rom update, as I can't explain why the Transcend one works in the same Amiga doing the same.
I believe I will install it again with BB1, as I don't believe BB2 has to be so neccesary, or up to BB2 without rom update.
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Hi again:
As it's been a long time I will resume the thing:
As you know I'm using my 32GB Transcend CF as HD, and I get a problem when I make a cold boot, as the Amiga asks for a floppy to start. Thomas said it hasn't solution, and the only I can do is pressing A+A+Ctrl, start from a warm boot.
That works right and that's what I was using. I have to say I only had installed a Hawk Ramboard.
The thing is that today I've received a fantastic Blizzard 1260 from Stachu and the first thing I see is that when I make the cold boot it starts right, no floppy demand and all perfect.
Thomas can you please tell me why, what has happened? I thought it didn't have any soluti:confused:n...
EDIT: I have to say I'm happy because I've seen a new Tron movie will be on Cinemas by december
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Hi again:
As it's been a long time I will resume the thing:
As you know I'm using my 32GB Transcend CF as HD, and I get a problem when I make a cold boot, as the Amiga asks for a floppy to start. Thomas said it hasn't solution, and the only I can do is pressing A+A+Ctrl, start from a warm boot.
That works right and that's what I was using. I have to say I only had installed a Hawk Ramboard.
The thing is that today I've received a fantastic Blizzard 1260 from Stachu and the first thing I see is that when I make the cold boot it starts right, no floppy demand and all perfect.
Thomas can you please tell me why, what has happened? I thought it didn't have any soluti:confused:n...
EDIT: I have to say I'm happy because I've seen a new Tron movie will be on Cinemas by december
I have seen this same behavior before.
Couple years ago I had a stock, unaccelerated A1200 with 4 gig Kingston Elite Pro CF card in it. Booted up fine every time. Added in a Paravision 030 accelerator and I would get the same issue as you. I would have to press Control-A-A and then it would boot up fine off the CF card.
I replaced the Kingston card with an 8 gig Sandisk Ultra card and everything was perfect. Would boot up straight away each time.
Bottom line is that results may vary depending on whether the Amiga has an accelerator, brand of CF card, adaptor used, standard ide port or buffered and etc.
But, I really think the CF card is going to be the difference. The English Amiga board has a large thread about using CF cards on the ide bus in the A600 and A1200. You can see folks vary greatly depending on the brand of CF card.
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Thanks, @broken. I didn't have idea of it .
I wonder how much magic you interpret into this partition thing. Partitions is a DOS feature. DOS is not even born when hard drives are recognised or not.
The first hard disk related OS part which jumps in after a reset is the hardware driver (scsi.device). It initialises the controller and checks which drives are connected. If your HDD is not recognised at this stage, it is completely ignored in all of the following steps. That's what happens in your Amiga.
The next step is that all recognised harddrives are checked for a valid partition table and a list of possible parttions is created.
Only now it is time for DOS to wake up. If no floppy disk is in the drives and if there are partitions in the list, then dos.library is initialised and the partitions are mounted, i.e. they are copied from the list created before in to the list of devices known to DOS.
You see, if the hardware driver does not recognise the HDD, then there is nothing in DOS or partitons or files which could change this.
That's what Thomas explained, which I find very interesting. What I don't understand is how the booting process can recognize or not the HD depending on the accelerator
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Dunno.
I think its just a compatibility issue. Generally the Sandisk cards have probably been the most compatible across the board for Amiga users. Granted, other models from other brands can work too...some with limited success and others not at all.
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I'd vote for the completely different timing.
- although the 68060 is much faster than the 68020, its access to the motherboard is slower which makes the entire initialisation process a bit slower
- the accelerator is an expansion card which needs to be initialised before it is used (autoconfig)
- the accelerator has a firmware ROM which is executed before the IDE driver
- perhaps the firmware has some programmed delays, for example to wait for a key press to disable the accelerator
The sum of all these delays is probably just long enough for the CF card to wake up before the IDE driver searches for connected devices.
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That's more or less what I thought too. When I turn the Amiga on with the Blizzard some colors like a rainbow appear before it turns on, and takes a second or two more to start. By the way, is it normal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvrVf4mD4KI (http://wmail44.movistar.es/cp/ps/Mail/ExternalURLProxy?d=&u=&url=-744105845)
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With a Blizzard 1230 you can also add the scsi kit and use a scsi->ide adapter. With this combination if you don't have anything connected to the motherboard ide, the scsi kit will wait around 30 seconds or more before booting. I had this combination once, though the delay might have been due to me putting memory on the scsi kit only.
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I'm thinking about the scsi kit I've go too. I already have a 128mb ram module atached, but would like to put some more.
The fan in the Blizzard seems a good idea (not sure of how much hot it disipates in that side), but I can't use the SCSI kit with it.
I believe I will use a fan at the other side with a heatsink. I've bought this thin one (42mm (L) x 42mm (W) x 10mm (H))
(http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/skyliance/FZV0031SC-tb.jpg)
and I have the Amiga over white rubber feets, 1cm up.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/04/!BoDNlfgBGk~$(KGrHqEH-C8EtrIv87gBBLl-8LKes!~~_35.JPG)
I think I will make a cut on the trapdoor to stick the fan over the CPU.
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@Retrofan,
I'm happy that card arrived safe and working fine :-)
With regards to SCSI KIT used in desktop:
As said it makes sense with SCSI-IDE converter and installing CF card.
Using real 3,5" SCSI drive inside desktop it's also possible, but required some modification inside and unfortunately SCSI HDD are usually louder than IDE.
And to use SCSI KIT you have to remove the fan and install this fan somewhere else (cutting trapdoor and installing fan here seems to be good idea).
With regards to 30 seconds delay during booting from SCSI:
These 30 seconds delays were introduced in KS3.1 to give some time to IDE devices to start after power-on.
And these 30 second occurs ONLY if there is no device connected to A1200 onboard IDE.
If you will connect onboard A1200 IDE to any IDE device or IDE-CF adapter and put small CF card in it and connect power; you will notice that these 30 seconds delay are gone.
So in short:
To decrease boot time with SCSI KIT please connect any IDE device to A1200 onboard IDE.
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Try with this last version of IDEfix : http://aminet.net/driver/media/IDEFix_patches.lha
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I have those patches alredy installed (wasn't easy) because I got the Amiga crashing with the big HD CF and the internal CD rom after installed the normal Idefix. After I installed the patches everything runs ok. Still haven't tried the SCSI kit, and what I'm hearing about those 30 seconds delay for booting is new for me.
I wasn't planning to put or use the scsi cable because I'm planning to use the small plastic trapdoor hole for the Indivision Aga output (BTW, has any one for sale? I've been told they will be for sale again in september) and a USB connection from a Subway USB connector I'm waiting to arrive from AmigaKit...; both in the same place. In fact, yesterday I did a metal plaque for them (photos).
I'm thinking to put only one USB port of the 4 it has. Do you believe it's necessary more than one?
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That looks nice Retro .
:drink:
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I taked the idea from this:
(http://shop.amigakit.com/images/indivision-subway-installed-a1200.jpg)
This was done by Amigakit at their "upgrade service", but mine is made in metal...