Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: TheGoose on May 19, 2010, 09:21:49 PM
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You know about this I bet:
http://www.8bitventures.com/mssiah/
questions:
Does anyone have it / use it ?
I assume this would be cool to use with Octamed Sound Studio?
Has anyone got it going with an Amiga + MIDI ?
Hmmm, found a whole setup on ebay...
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The device only seems to have a single midi port, though perhaps it can be configured as an input or an output.
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I used the predecessor (Prophet 64) with a MIDI interface together with OSS, and it worked great. I have yet to try, but I imagine it'd be just as good with MSSIAH.
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I have one. I have not used it with OSS but it can take MIDI input, not output only.
It is VERY impressive. I would suggest a C= 1351 mouse to use with it as well. It does support Amiga mice but in a limit fashion (no right button).
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Ok, I'm bidding on this it looks fun. Trendy sounds right now, but fun.
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And I just happen to be selling this for use with Mssiah. :)
http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52789
I have not had the opportunity to really dig into MSSIAH like I would liked to of. Though I do have a stock C64 which I will eventually add a second SID chip to and will be using that for my experiments.
I'd really be interested to see how people have used this with OctaMED S.S.
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And I just happen to be selling this for use with Mssiah. :)
http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52789
I have not had the opportunity to really dig into MSSIAH like I would liked to of. Though I do have a stock C64 which I will eventually add a second SID chip to and will be using that for my experiments.
I'd really be interested to see how people have used this with OctaMED S.S.
Wow, that is very cool. You should do a song or you tube post...
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I never found the time to wrap my mind around the Hardware, plus the guy who built that for me became very scarce after a while so I never fully understood what all I had, let alone how to use it. Hence part of the reason I am parting with it. I figure someone out there with more knowledge might know what to do with it all.
As an extra prevention from learning much about MSSIAH thus far, my MicroSys Mouse adapter has NEVER worked right on my Atari 8-bit or the C64's I have. Though it does work perfectly on my Amiga. Strange.
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Hi there! I am using a stock c64 + mmsiah and an A600 + OSS, linked via midi at the moment. Its works great. Mmsiah is just awesome!
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VERY cool... Might have to invest in one of these!
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I never found the time to wrap my mind around the Hardware, plus the guy who built that for me became very scarce after a while so I never fully understood what all I had, let alone how to use it. Hence part of the reason I am parting with it. I figure someone out there with more knowledge might know what to do with it all.
As an extra prevention from learning much about MSSIAH thus far, my MicroSys Mouse adapter has NEVER worked right on my Atari 8-bit or the C64's I have. Though it does work perfectly on my Amiga. Strange.
No kidding, that rig blows the mind. I read now the the Commodore 64C had upgraded SID chip, does anyone know if there was an audible difference?
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That might be the 8580 Sid replacing the 6581 (not sure about the numbers). I never heard the 6581 in original, but as far as i know there is not much of a difference. I red that 8580 has less noise while some people say the filters of the 6581 sound better and also it sounds more dirty.
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@Vegas If you don't mind explaining a bit, perhaps with a few pics, how you got your A600 and C64 running together with MIDI and MSSIAH, I'd be eager to learn.
On a side note, my C64 did not sell ironically, not even a bid and there were 11 watchers. I guess that is a sign that I should keep it. :)
As for the Second SID upgrade, yes it's totally worth it, you get 8 Channels instead of 4!
Having Dual POKEY on the Atari 8-Bit ain't a bad idea either, now all we need is something similar to MSSIAH for it, and we'll be set! The POKEY is a highly under rated audio chip and they are cheap!
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As for the Second SID upgrade, yes it's totally worth it, you get 8 Channels instead of 4!
Sure that's not 6 channels instead of 3? ;)
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Corrected. I'm too used to my POKEY's! :)
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@Vegas If you don't mind explaining a bit, perhaps with a few pics, how you got your A600 and C64 running together with MIDI and MSSIAH, I'd be eager to learn.
Sure, no problem! Lets take the Mmsiah Sequencer:
- Connect Mmsiah cartridge to "Midi Out" of the Amiga Midi Interface
- Boot up Mmsiah, load Sequencer, load in your instruments:
AUDIO -> INSTRUMENTS
- open Midi Mode window:
FUNCTIONS -> MIDI MODE (midisetup1.jpg)
Here you can select Midi channels for each instrument (1). Choose 1, 2, 3 for example. Then select START (2). The sceen will turn black, Mmsiah is in Midi Mode now.
- Now open Octamed.
- Open INSTRUMENT PROPERTIES window (midisetup2.jpg)
- Select an empty intrument.
- Set Midi channel referring to the Mmsiah (3). For example, choose 1 if you want this intrument to play the Mmsiah instrument which you have set to midi channel 1 before.
- Don´t forget to set the intruments volume! (4) Otherwise you wont hear anything (it took me ages to find out about that...).
- Select the next empty intrument and repeat this procedure.
- Last thing you have to do is to activate Octamed Midi:
Top Menu: MIDI -> MIDI ACTIVE
And thats pretty much it!
Some additional stuff:
- For some reason the notes wont stop, you have to do it manually by pressing SPACE on the Amiga, respectively add the command to your track.
- It can be an advantage not to play the notes/send Midi CC directly, because the c64 sometimes is too slow. Instead just Midi - sync Octamed to the Mmsiah. In Monosynth/Bassline/Drummer you can also trigger and sync patterns via midi.
Hope this is some help for you. Lets hear some sweet crispy 8bit stuff soon!
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- For some reason the notes wont stop, you have to do it manually by pressing SPACE on the Amiga, respectively add the command to your track.
It depends on the default note length for the instrument. Usually, it's zero, which means play until a stop message is sent.
You can change the default note length (in ticks) for an instrument by setting the Hold value in the instrument properties window. This works for samples and MIDI instruments. The decay value works for samples only.
If you do set a default note and need it to play longer in a sequence, you need to extend the note manually in the channel by using the enter key to sustain the current note. For example, if you were using 4 lines per beat and 6 ticks per line and had set the instrument hold to 6, the following pattern would play for 1/4 beat on each beat:
C-3 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
--- 000000
C-3 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
--- 000000
C-3 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
--- 000000
C-3 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
--- 000000
If you wanted the notes to play longer, say half a beat, you'd extend them (using the enter key in edit mode, and your track would look like this:
C-3 100000
-|- 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
C-3 100000
-|- 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
C-3 100000
-|- 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
C-3 100000
-|- 100000
--- 000000
--- 000000
You can control the note length to less than one line by using the player command 08xx, which sets the length and repeat rate (see manual for more info). This is good for creating very chopped up sounding stuff with very short timing.
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Ah, thanks! Problem solved.
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Aghh ha ha!!! I'm so glad that my C64 did not sell!!!!!!
Now I need to order myself a new mixer board to replace my old broken one. Get my Atari 2600 MIDI adapter in the mail, and I'm going to lock my self in doors for months!
Going to try to test this out before I goto bed.
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Aghh ha ha!!! I'm so glad that my C64 did not sell!!!!!!
Now I need to order myself a new mixer board to replace my old broken one. Get my Atari 2600 MIDI adapter in the mail, and I'm going to lock my self in doors for months!
Going to try to test this out before I goto bed.
Cool. Does your C64 have the sid2sid mod too? Tell us about it if it does?
(http://8bitcollective.com/items/images/sid2sid.jpg)
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I didn't get a chance to do any testing last night, but yes, I got to SID's and some...
Commodore 64 last generation "Bread Box".
Painted with interior Porsche (car) paint
2 SID chips
2 Audio In ports (using guitar jacks)
2 Audio out ports (using guitar jacks)
4 assigned knob switches
2 built in guitar effects processors
4 additional knobs to use with MSSIAH
2 SID Feedback knobs
An additional video out port
Not sure what all it can do, or how for that matter. I had this custom built a while back, and now the guys who did the modifications are impossible to contact for info, but I'm sure I'll have it figured out in time. Being able to interface it with my Amiga gives me extra incentive.
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That is one crazy sick C64 :eek:
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Alright, I'm about to test this OctaMED S.S. to MSSIAH business out. I had to reorganize my room a bit and make way for the new set up.
I got excited and had to take a picture!
I still need to order a proper mixing board as my old one died, and I still don't have my Atari 2600 MIDI interface for SynthCart, so that is not connected yet, but for the note it has been pro-sounded and fit with a guitar jack.
That aside we have my tricked out C64 with Amiga Joystick, running MSSIAH.
Amiga 1200 with a 40Mhz 030 with 16Mb of RAM, Midi 1 MIDI device, Digital Sound Studio, internal HxC USB Floppy emulator, and 4Gb HD via CF adapter.
This will soon be upgraded to a 50Mhz 060 with 64Mb or RAM, and I'll probably order a Delfina sound card before long.
Basic MIDI capable Casio Keyboard.
On the side and out of the picture is an old 1.3Ghz HP with 1Gb or RAM running Windows XP which I use only to run UAE the software for my HxC USB Floppy emulator. Other than that it gets no use.
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O.K. I'm still wrapping my head around loading instruments, making them, naming them, etc. So I loaded the demo song and used its samples with MIDI! With 2 SID chips I have 6 Channels to play with!
So my next step. Try to figure out exactly what the manual is telling me when it comes to samples. After that I need to figure out the Audio In part of my C64 and feed the Amiga's audio output through that which is supposed to then pass through the SID chips.
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Alright, I can name an instrument, select different instruments and define them, but when I go into MIDI mode, all channels sound the same regardless of the fact that I set them to 1-6.
EDIT: I was setting the channel and forgot the instruments. Got it!
Now how do I stop a sample? I.E. I have a sample that just goes on and on. I want to cut it off in the track after it plays for half a second.
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Either set a default note length in the instrument properties or use the note off command (00FFF)
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@ XDelusion: Man you got gear lust :biglaugh:
But the c64 is just awesome! How could you ever consider selling it??
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That might be the 8580 Sid replacing the 6581 (not sure about the numbers). I never heard the 6581 in original, but as far as i know there is not much of a difference. I red that 8580 has less noise while some people say the filters of the 6581 sound better and also it sounds more dirty.
There is a big difference when using with MSSIAH. (And when playing back SIDs! When they're composed specifically for one or the other.)
The Bassline, Monosynth, and Drum portions of MSSIAH are said to be designed for use with the 8580.
I have used MSSIAH on both versions of SID and can say that the authors are right when they state in the manual that there is a big difference in sound, when an instrument or module is designed for one specific chip. The filters on the 8580 let some sound through that the filters on the 6581 would just totally cut off, IIRC.
It really depends what you're after... the original 6581 is more what we remember from video games, and the 8580 has greater refinement for sound synthesis.
I have started messing around with the MSSIAH's Sequencer and can say that it really is truly exceptional, and that people just using MSSIAH as a soundbank are missing out. If you want to use MSSIAH with Octamed, definitely just take MIDI Out from Octamed to the MIDI In (there's only one!) on the MSSIAH. Have Octamed send MIDI Clock, and then turn MIDI Clock *on* in MSSIAH sequencer. Then whenever you "start" Octamed, MSSIAH should start along with it, and play back in sync. You can loop any portion of your MSSIAH sequence, edit it as it's playing back, and mute/unmute tracks, all live. This would be a great setup for using sampled sounds via OctaMED and synthesized sounds via MSSIAH. I'm not an OctaMED or OSS user though so YMMV. I have slaved MSSIAH to my drum machine, and also to an Amiga running Bars & Pipes. It's very reliable.
Definitely get a C=1351 mouse as someone else said, or be like me and find a Micromys. MSSIAH supports the scroll wheel on PS/2 mice connected via Micromys.
- t
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O.K. I'm still wrapping my head around loading instruments, making them, naming them, etc. So I loaded the demo song and used its samples with MIDI! With 2 SID chips I have 6 Channels to play with!
The instruments are still available in the instrument editor even if you don't load the demo song. You can scroll through the built-in instruments and then double-click the "GET" button to load that instrument into that ... voice.
So my next step. Try to figure out exactly what the manual is telling me when it comes to samples. After that I need to figure out the Audio In part of my C64 and feed the Amiga's audio output through that which is supposed to then pass through the SID chips.
Samples? You mean instruments? They are not samples... they are real synthesized sounds.
You won't want to take the audio out of the Amiga into the audio in of the SID. The audio in of the SID is mono, and the Amiga is stereo. Just get a little audio mixer.
Unless you have two SIDs and are planning on having one channel of Amiga audio go to one SID, and the other channel go to the other? Still, you'd have more control over your sound if you just get an external audio mixer like a Behringer Eurorack or a Yamaha thingy. Or buy my Sunrize SoundSwitch :).
- t
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There is a big difference when using with MSSIAH. (And when playing back SIDs! When they're composed specifically for one or the other.)
The Bassline, Monosynth, and Drum portions of MSSIAH are said to be designed for use with the 8580.
I have used MSSIAH on both versions of SID and can say that the authors are right when they state in the manual that there is a big difference in sound, when an instrument or module is designed for one specific chip. The filters on the 8580 let some sound through that the filters on the 6581 would just totally cut off, IIRC.
It really depends what you're after... the original 6581 is more what we remember from video games, and the 8580 has greater refinement for sound synthesis.
I have started messing around with the MSSIAH's Sequencer and can say that it really is truly exceptional, and that people just using MSSIAH as a soundbank are missing out. If you want to use MSSIAH with Octamed, definitely just take MIDI Out from Octamed to the MIDI In (there's only one!) on the MSSIAH. Have Octamed send MIDI Clock, and then turn MIDI Clock *on* in MSSIAH sequencer. Then whenever you "start" Octamed, MSSIAH should start along with it, and play back in sync. You can loop any portion of your MSSIAH sequence, edit it as it's playing back, and mute/unmute tracks, all live. This would be a great setup for using sampled sounds via OctaMED and synthesized sounds via MSSIAH. I'm not an OctaMED or OSS user though so YMMV. I have slaved MSSIAH to my drum machine, and also to an Amiga running Bars & Pipes. It's very reliable.
Definitely get a C=1351 mouse as someone else said, or be like me and find a Micromys. MSSIAH supports the scroll wheel on PS/2 mice connected via Micromys.
- t
Interesting, so my thought now is to build my sid2sid board with one of each, so I can have max flavor, so to speak. Does that pose any issue? I can't wait to get my crap. Still hunting wild C64s on ebay...
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I have started messing around with the MSSIAH's Sequencer and can say that it really is truly exceptional, and that people just using MSSIAH as a soundbank are missing out. - t
Of course! When i got my Mmsiah, i had no possibility to save any data, since i just found the c64 in the dumpster. So i started creating sounds and sampled them to be used in other ways, OSS for example. Even though i have a datasette now, i somehow got stuck to this method. There are nice aspects in both ways. But you are right, i really have to dig into Sequencing on the c64 itself.
Also thanks for the info about sids :idea:
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Interesting, so my thought now is to build my sid2sid board with one of each, so I can have max flavor, so to speak. Does that pose any issue? I can't wait to get my crap. Still hunting wild C64s on ebay...
Yeah, the manual says you can't do it. You have to use 2 x whichever SID came with the machine you plan to use.
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Also thanks for the info about sids :idea:
Sure! Sounds like the O.P. already knows a lot, and has two audio-in plugs on the Commodore, so I was telling the O.P. some things he already knew... but good thing somebody else finds it interesting and useful :)
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Trilobyte - Yes I have two Audio Inputs on my C64, one assigned to each SID, and I meant instrument, not sample. I can't imagine using samples with only 64k or RAM! ;)
Karlos - That worked, also I sent you a PM about previous help you sent to me.
Vegas - I was going to keep my stock C64 and add a second SID chip. The one I was going to sell, was the one I had custom built. Sadly the guy who did the MOD kind of vanished on me so I have this great and expensive gear with little knowledge on how to take advantage of it's extra tweaks. Most of those knobs don't seem to do anything, like the MSSIAH knobs.
I never had a clue what they do exactly or how to make use of them. Does MSSIAH have something built in that caters to that?
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I can't imagine using samples with only 64k or RAM! ;)
Mmsiah Wave Player ?!