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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: J-Golden on May 17, 2010, 05:08:42 AM

Title: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: J-Golden on May 17, 2010, 05:08:42 AM
I owned a C-64 but I was real young and more into games and the like.  I keep hearing and seeing ppl. go head over heals about this chip but I never quite understood why it was so great.
 
I had a disk of SID music way back then so I know it plays music and stuff, but it only reminded me of .MOD music...
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: BluPhenix316 on May 17, 2010, 05:49:42 AM
Thats the thing, it was unique in its day and even still today is unique. I write electronic music myself and i'm just getting into Amiga's and C64s but i've always known about the SID chip there are synthesisers built around that chip and even bands built around it. Check out Crystal Castles. It is in a way a aquired taste so to speak. I love the sound, and yes it does sound like MOD music, that was what MOD music was.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: XDelusion on May 17, 2010, 05:51:31 AM
It has a very unique sound and works well when being used as an Analog Synth. That's about all there is to it. Well that and that distinct old school vibe is gives when you hear it in modern musick.

Sound a nice break from this overly clean stuff you hear in music all the time now a days.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Britelite on May 17, 2010, 08:23:10 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;558966

I had a disk of SID music way back then so I know it plays music and stuff, but it only reminded me of .MOD music...


Umm, SID-music sounds nothing like MOD-music (except when playing mods). The similarities might ofcourse come from the fact that there are a lot of mods that try to sound like the SID :)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: XDelusion on May 17, 2010, 08:37:59 AM
Yep, MOD music is sample based.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Piru on May 17, 2010, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;558966
I owned a C-64 but I was real young and more into games and the like.  I keep hearing and seeing ppl. go head over heals about this chip but I never quite understood why it was so great.
 
I had a disk of SID music way back then so I know it plays music and stuff, but it only reminded me of .MOD music...


This is why it's so great:
[youtube]N6scnqwKufY[/youtube]
:-)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: xeron on May 17, 2010, 10:35:14 AM
Or this..
[youtube]aL2tUVzihCU[/youtube]
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Nostalgic_Amigan on May 17, 2010, 10:51:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI4p-jcVg2E&feature=related
 
I always loved this song and for me it demonstrates what the sid chip is all about.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Jope on May 17, 2010, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: Piru;558986
This is why it's so great:
[r3 by jt]
:-)


Ah, the first SID I ever ripped by myself as a teenager in front of my breadbox. Happy times.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Piru on May 17, 2010, 11:06:57 AM
Here's something interesting, these SID tunes were recorded using two different SID chips and mixed together to get a nice echo effect:

1_Jogeir&Geir_-_Oro_Insenso_R3&R4AR.mp3 (http://oms.wmhost.com/Echofied_6581/1_Jogeir&Geir_-_Oro_Insenso_R3&R4AR.mp3)

2_Jeroen_-_Ubi-Sound_R3&R4AR.mp3 (http://oms.wmhost.com/Echofied_6581/2_Jeroen_-_Ubi-Sound_R3&R4AR.mp3)

3_DRAX&Jeroen_-_Powerhouse_R3&R4AR.mp3 (http://oms.wmhost.com/Echofied_6581/3_DRAX&Jeroen_-_Powerhouse_R3&R4AR.mp3)

4_Laxity_-_Crosswords_R3&R4AR.mp3 (http://oms.wmhost.com/Echofied_6581/4_Laxity_-_Crosswords_R3&R4AR.mp3)

5_DRAX_-_Resolution_R3&R4AR.mp3 (http://oms.wmhost.com/Echofied_6581/5_DRAX_-_Resolution_R3&R4AR.mp3)

6_DRAX_-_Caught_In_The_Middle_R3&R4AR.mp3 (http://oms.wmhost.com/Echofied_6581/6_DRAX_-_Caught_In_The_Middle_R3&R4AR.mp3)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Linde on May 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM
Quote from: Piru;558991
Here's something interesting, these SID tunes were recorded using two different SID chips and mixed together to get a nice echo effect:


That's not entirely true; while they were recorded and mixed together (one SID model in the left channel and another in the right) the echo effect is done programmatically entirely on the C64. The third voice oscillator is read by in a fast interrupt and fed back a few hundred samples later into the master volume register of the SID (which is a a common trick to play 4-bit samples on the C64).
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Piru on May 17, 2010, 11:59:55 AM
Quote from: Linde;558992
That's not entirely true; while they were recorded and mixed together (one SID model in the left channel and another in the right) the echo effect is done programmatically entirely on the C64. The third voice oscillator is read by in a fast interrupt and fed back a few hundred samples later into the master volume register of the SID (which is a a common trick to play 4-bit samples on the C64).
Ah! Thanks for correcting! I bet Zer0-x explained it, but I just missed the details.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Amiga_Nut on May 17, 2010, 12:50:17 PM
The SID and Paula have NOTHING in common grrrr. I hate it when people compare the two, it's like comparing KFC to a Whopper meal. Yeah both are food/soundchips but the ingredients that make them up are nothing in common.

The SID is really an analogue synth on a chip, and the only spiritual successor I can think of to SID is the Ensoniq sound chip in the Apple 2 GS (same designer, Bob Yannes). It has many many features and effects for the time, and if you don't like its sound at all then you just don't like anything like that ie early 80s UK synth pop sound because it is the same technology really, a simple mono analogue synthesizer. Me I love it, not all tunes nope, maybe only 5% of the entire total of 100,000s of SID tunes out there, but 5% of that is more than all the commercial music tracks ever produced in the world that I like so. Anyway the point is the unique features borrowed from proper analogue synths not present in lesser chips like YM8912 or Pokey were key and well the diversity is clear, Hubbard tracks sound nothing like Galway tracks which sound nothing like Whittaker tracks....what I mean is you can't even tell those three composer's tunes are even being played on identical sound hardware. And listen to Cinemaware's game soundtracks too, very nicely interpreted from Amiga, far superior to the ST version aurally.

The Amiga had 2 stereo 8 bit DACs, that's it, some simple fixed freq muffler, sorry filter, with some volume controls. Amiga doesn't really have a unique sound, sure there were plenty of rubbish MODs in the 80s, but that's because everyone was using the same rubbish samples from crappy late 80s cheesy or rap music *cringe* but there are plenty of MODs that are very lovely and delicious indeed. Revelations slideshow is one that comes to mind from Crypto-burners, and as for games well Super Stardust is probably the best game soundtrack in the universe (and always will be!). But then these were done in the 90s as ambient music was getting a hold and rap crap wasn't shoved in your face at every corner TFFT. The Amiga's strength is the fact that basically you are given 4 DMA sound channels with AM/FM controls and off you go...do what you like, even mix them in software to make games with 6 channel sound total etc.

Both are great sound chips, both for VERY different reasons. Both have some funky tricks to punch above their weight like sample playback on original SID being quite good (listen to Arkanoid soundtrack or BMX Kidz) and Paula has a 14bit sample playback routine :) You don't see FM based Soundblaster cards with patches to play PCM type samples on PC do you? ;)

Don't think the original Mac had sound, and ST had the same inferior Yamaha chip as 8 bit Sinclair/Amstrad units. NES had rubbish sound, SNES sounded a bit General MIDI extra cheese on the side style too. So is there any wonder compared to the competition that of all the mass market machines people generally only remember the two from Commodore!

(I guess what I am trying to say is even though both are excellent if you haven't got a clue where to start then it is quite possible to listen to hours of crap SID or Paula tunes sure, but then that's your fault for not asking people in the know what composers to start with)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Britelite on May 17, 2010, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;558998
You don't see FM based Soundblaster cards with patches to play PCM type samples on PC do you? ;)


Actually, yes you do. There quite a few mod-players that even worked with the good old Adlib-card. The Soundblasters all had a DAC, so there was no need to play sample with the FM-chip.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: yakumo9275 on May 17, 2010, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic_Amigan;558989
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI4p-jcVg2E&feature=related
 
I always loved this song and for me it demonstrates what the sid chip is all about.


heres a +10 the LN1+2 music just kick ass! :)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Tension on May 17, 2010, 01:46:09 PM
It's the wulf!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKkES1KrjKI
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Arkhan on May 17, 2010, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: BluPhenix316;558971
even bands built around it. Check out Crystal Castles.


Or don't.

I once messaged that guy in the band and he had NFI what I was talking about when I mentioned SID/C64.  That instantly made what they were doing seem pretty meh and fake as far as I care.
--------------------------------
Quote from: Amiga_Nut

Don't think the original Mac had sound, and ST had the same inferior Yamaha chip as 8 bit Sinclair/Amstrad units. NES had rubbish sound, SNES sounded a bit General MIDI extra cheese on the side style too. So is there any wonder compared to the competition that of all the mass market machines people generally only remember the two from Commodore!


Eh.  The SID is great for music, but really sucks for games most of the time.  Look at how many games either have SFX OR music.  (Armalyte, R-Type).  

So many games have decent music, but then the blaring noisy SFX kick in and ruin the hell out of it.....  if your work around is omitting SFX, then you've done it wrong.

There are always exceptions to this.  Parallax for example does music and SFX good.  So does Myth, and Neverending Story 2 for example.

Also:
==========================
--The NES didn't have rubbish sound.  Don't be crazy.
--The MSX has great FM music.  Don't leave it out.  Add in the Konami SCC, and there you go.  Mix in the stock AY chip, and you have 17 channels of chip-music to be had.
--In the same vein as SCC, is the PC-Engine.  That soundchip never disappoints.  R-Type sounds like crap on Amiga in comparsion. :)
===========================
I think there is plenty of remembrance for stuff other than Paula and SID.


The reason the SID chip is "so great" though, is that it is an actual synthesizer, rather than a PSG.   You generate waveforms and filter/shape the sounds just like you would with say a Roland SH-101 (which you can make sound exactly like a SID, so the SID isn't exactly unique).

Other chips of the time were just bleepbloopers, while the SID was a shweeeepshwooooooper.  It set it apart in a good way from other computers.  Honestly, if the SID wasn't there, alot of the games would suck.

Though I really think the people that go all out of their way to make DIY synths out of SIDs are going a bit overboard, esp since the SID is pretty accident prone.  A roland or moog is way more reliable.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Amiga_Nut on May 17, 2010, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: Britelite;559002
Actually, yes you do. There quite a few mod-players that even worked with the good old Adlib-card. The Soundblasters all had a DAC, so there was no need to play sample with the FM-chip.


With an 8086 @ stock IBM XT CPU speed as per the time range of C64? Sure with enough CPU speed you can do renditions of SID via the fantastic C64S DOS emulator and PC speaker option. I'm not 100% on names of PC soundcards circa 85, but there were a few which were simple FM based things. Maybe there was more than one type of ADLIB card, certainly the original sounblaster (not SB-16 etc) from early to mid 80s did FM based OPL stuff no?

Like I said I'm not 100% up on every make and model of sound card, it's fair to say in the early 80s the C64 dumped on PCs from a great height, and so did the A1000 later on. Just because that company died it doesn't fuel my interest to run CGA games on 4.??mhz 8086 boxes now. I didn't miss out on anything by choosing a C64 at launch and an A1000 at launch, that much I know.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: KThunder on May 17, 2010, 03:45:44 PM
To be fair you really have to compare the sid to the other computers and consoles at the time to see why it was so good. Compared to the vic-20, atari 8bit, apple II series , pc, trs-80, or any of the old games consoles like the old ataris or intellivision etc. it really blows them away.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Amiga_Nut on May 17, 2010, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;559022
Or don't.

I once messaged that guy in the band and he had NFI what I was talking about when I mentioned SID/C64.  That instantly made what they were doing seem pretty meh and fake as far as I care.
--------------------------------


Eh.  The SID is great for music, but really sucks for games most of the time.  Look at how many games either have SFX OR music.  (Armalyte, R-Type).  

So many games have decent music, but then the blaring noisy SFX kick in and ruin the hell out of it.....  if your work around is omitting SFX, then you've done it wrong.

There are always exceptions to this.  Parallax for example does music and SFX good.  So does Myth, and Neverending Story 2 for example.

Also:
==========================
--The NES didn't have rubbish sound.  Don't be crazy.
--The MSX has great FM music.  Don't leave it out.  Add in the Konami SCC, and there you go.  Mix in the stock AY chip, and you have 17 channels of chip-music to be had.
--In the same vein as SCC, is the PC-Engine.  That soundchip never disappoints.  R-Type sounds like crap on Amiga in comparsion. :)
===========================
I think there is plenty of remembrance for stuff other than Paula and SID.


The reason the SID chip is "so great" though, is that it is an actual synthesizer, rather than a PSG.   You generate waveforms and filter/shape the sounds just like you would with say a Roland SH-101 (which you can make sound exactly like a SID, so the SID isn't exactly unique).

Other chips of the time were just bleepbloopers, while the SID was a shweeeepshwooooooper.  It set it apart in a good way from other computers.  Honestly, if the SID wasn't there, alot of the games would suck.

Though I really think the people that go all out of their way to make DIY synths out of SIDs are going a bit overboard, esp since the SID is pretty accident prone.  A roland or moog is way more reliable.


Good music is good music, technicalities aside. To me though all NES games were plinky plonk rubbish, and SNES games are very orchestral/General MIDI sounding. The artistic talent just isn't there like some of the great SIDs or stuff like Ghouls n Ghosts on Amiga. It's not a cultural thing because games like Vulcan Venture have awesome soundtracks in the arcade and the Sony chip in the SNES is technically good too. Yes Ghouls n Ghosts IS a crap conversion on Amiga (thanks to idiots hired by US Gold AGAIN!) BUT the music is light years ahead of the rubbish on the console versions. Limiting factor for Amiga games music was the floppy disk, but then cartridges have unlimited memory, With a hard drive on an A600 you could use all 1mb per level nicely without worrying about how many disk swaps would happen.

If anything sounds crap on Amiga it is down to one of two things...

1. Not enough sound channels..tricky to overcome for CPU hogging games code. Most games don't have enough channels to play with, Hybris is a good early example.
2. Crap samples/coding....easy to overcome...bit of a no-brainer in todays all digital world.

Usually it is 2 not 1 though as far as music quality goes, music and effects together has always been tricky on most home computers due to limited total numbers of sound channels. You can't really help it and in some ways I wish the PC version of Super Stardust had used different MOD samples as ultimately those amazing tunes are now forever compromised due to the samples used, necessary though as with just a 14mhz 020 there isn't enough CPU time left to do virtual 6 channel sound AND all the other funky stuff @ 50fps on one of the finest retro remakes ever made for any system. Such a shame the CD32/PC-CD versions used inferior music done on what sounds like a cheap Casio synth from a mail order catalogue for 100 bucks!

And yes as I stated the SID is a simpler version of many early analogue synths, sounds similar to very early 80s synth pop for a very good reason. You either like that kind of sound or you don't.

Ultimately what I do like about both Amiga and C64 sound hardware is that it is possible to get wildly different results, an ST always sounds like an ST unless samples are used, so does a Sinclair, NES and an Amstrad, that AY/YM chip is barely OK in ST/ZX/CPC but nothing to write home about. MSX was a bit of a golden turkey in the EU, so all I remember is for music Yamaha was the one to get as it had extra sound capabilities as standard....rather than getting a Toshiba one (most prevalent on ebay sadly).

But ultimately I have not heard a realistic, or otherwise, electric guitar sound produced from an 80s computer soundchip via waveforms alone except for a certain short tune from Wizball. And guess what one of the first A/V demos of the A1000 shipped to TV shows had on it....could it be an electric guitar sample played via the computer keyboard Protracker style....never :)

Of all the non Commodore machines of the 80s that aurally peeked my interest was probably the Megadrive (Genesis), the tunes on Gauntlet IV and Thunderforce III are just so nice, but at the same time they're different to either MODs or SIDs.

I don't really care what the badge is on a machine, only what comes out the speakers, and to be brutally honest there were better SID soundtracks in the mid 80s than commercial music on the whole in my personal opinion, music was just so boring in the charts in my childhood once experimental synth pop was killed off for plinky plonk pop music crap!
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Britelite on May 17, 2010, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;559035
Maybe there was more than one type of ADLIB card


I was referring to the original Adlib-card that only had a FM-chip, and still people were able to play samples and mods on it.

Quote
certainly the original sounblaster (not SB-16 etc) from early to mid 80s did FM based OPL stuff no?


Yes, the soundblaster had FM-chips (mainly for adlib-compatibility) but every single one of them also had a DAC for samples.

Anyway, my point was that we all know the Amiga was impressive and awesome, so there's no need to make thing up about the PC to make it look bad, it had many faults but please stick to things that are actually true ;)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: klx300r on May 17, 2010, 06:38:24 PM
@ Amiga Nut

well said! I have dual 6581's in my 64 along with a MSSIAH cart and I can honestly say that NOTHING sounds like the original SID chip (especially Rev4's)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Karlos on May 17, 2010, 07:52:59 PM
Quote from: klx300r;559069
@ Amiga Nut

well said! I have dual 6581's in my 64 along with a MSSIAH cart and I can honestly say that NOTHING sounds like the original SID chip (especially Rev4's)


Surely revision 1 is the original SID chip :p
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: KThunder on May 17, 2010, 07:55:25 PM
The 1st dual sid setup came out in the mid-80's didn't it? It was on a cart I think. Commodore should have incorperated it into the 64c and c128. The Amiga could have done even more with dual sids too.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Jpan1 on May 17, 2010, 09:17:39 PM
I'm still trying to get big into chip muzik...there's some wierd sounds going about these day or has time actually retro forwarded? for the best chip sounds came from Manics of Noise, and if you make a chip sounds expressive, then that's a major achievement for composers with limited noise producing machines that actually do the stuff from yesterday what we hear today ! :)
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Ilwrath on May 17, 2010, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: KThunder;559084
The 1st dual sid setup came out in the mid-80's didn't it? It was on a cart I think. Commodore should have incorperated it into the 64c and c128. The Amiga could have done even more with dual sids too.


Yeah, with as cheap as MOS could crank out the SID, it would have been cool if they had thrown one or two in the Amiga as a programmable synth, in addition to the digital Paula.  Paula's synth capabilities weren't as hot.  Offloading that would have allowed games to have great chiptunes while still having all the digital sample slots for multiple sound effect layering.

And as for what is so great about the SID.  Well, as mentioned, it's a real synth.  I hate to sound like a corny audiophile nut, but you just don't quite get that same sound from a digital sample as you do from a real synth.   I haven't done the blindfolded sound test, but I honestly think if someone played a tune on a real SID (or another synth chip) and then the same tune from a digitally emulated synth, I could tell the difference.  (Unlike the folks who need all gold-plated connector ends, even for their USB and Firewire cables...)  I know I could tell when my C64 emulator was using my Catweasel SID and when it wasn't.

And with so many people having the Commodore 64, the SID name has a lot of nostalgia for a lot of people who owned them.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: bbond007 on May 18, 2010, 01:49:46 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;558966
I owned a C-64 but I was real young and more into games and the like.  I keep hearing and seeing ppl. go head over heals about this chip but I never quite understood why it was so great.
 
I had a disk of SID music way back then so I know it plays music and stuff, but it only reminded me of .MOD music...


By "MOD" music I assume you mean multi-channel sound...

SID was pretty cool. It has 3 sound channels/voice each of which had various waveforms you could pick from(including sine, square, random etc). Those sounds where then altered by the envelope generator which would basically control the volume. By setting the waveform and the envelope generator for various timings of Attack, Delay, Sustain, Release intervals you could make a sound resembling a musical instrument, or alternately, make something sounding really unique/strange/funky. On top of that there are sound filters and I forget what else.

Most common computers at the time(excluding Atari which I can't speak for) had less sophisticated sound generators and only had a single channel/voice.

I do think the SID sounds very unique/distinct, but I'm also partial to the Roland MT32 for the same reason.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: bbond007 on May 18, 2010, 01:56:22 AM
Quote from: Britelite;559059
I was referring to the original Adlib-card that only had a FM-chip, and still people were able to play samples and mods on it.


The Adlib card had no digital output and I don't believe was ever able to play MODS...

The SoundBlaster(which I called the "Sandblaster") was Adlib-compatible but had 1 8bit sound channel which a fast 386/486 could mix 4 (amiga/mod) channel sound into a single channel. The FM sounds channels were typically used for midi type music or basic sound effects.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Britelite on May 18, 2010, 06:36:22 AM
Quote from: bbond007;559201
The Adlib card had no digital output and I don't believe was ever able to play MODS...


And that's where you're wrong, I've played a lot of mods on it :)

Quote
The SoundBlaster(which I called the "Sandblaster") was Adlib-compatible but had 1 8bit sound channel which a fast 386/486 could mix 4 (amiga/mod) channel sound into a single channel.


Actually, playing 4-channel mods with software mixing on a soundblaster was possible even on a 8MHz XT.
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Arkhan on May 18, 2010, 07:05:21 AM
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;559039
Good music is good music, technicalities aside. To me though all NES games were plinky plonk rubbish, and SNES games are very orchestral/General MIDI sounding. The artistic talent just isn't there like some of the great SIDs or stuff like Ghouls n Ghosts on Amiga. It's not a cultural thing because games like Vulcan Venture have awesome soundtracks in the arcade and the Sony chip in the SNES is technically good too. Yes Ghouls n Ghosts IS a crap conversion on Amiga (thanks to idiots hired by US Gold AGAIN!) BUT the music is light years ahead of the rubbish on the console versions. Limiting factor for Amiga games music was the floppy disk, but then cartridges have unlimited memory, With a hard drive on an A600 you could use all 1mb per level nicely without worrying about how many disk swaps would happen.

Well, Ghouls and Ghosts had the same tunes throughout all systems.... except for the Amiga, which had some cracked out disaster that was not like the arcade one at all.   Even the NES's Ghosts n Goblins had the right tracks lol.

Also the Amiga one had no sound effects, which is another big WTF.  

I much rather prefer the "plonky" / "cheesy" stuff that resembles the arcade ones as opposed to Soap Opera sounding background music and ambient noises or wonky sounding stuff that sounds like it belongs at a carnival.  So calling the home ones that aren't Amiga rubbish is basically calling the arcade one rubbish too....

If you want an awesome arcade to home conversion of GnG.. see Daimakaimura for Super Grafx.   Perfect soundtrack done w/ 32-Byte waveforms, and crisp visuals.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NNXwvndjg

and you can also check out the Megadrive one which has more arcade like FM tunes.

Both are excellent.

The arcade machines usually rocked the FM like a motherfudger anyway, and it often suits the games better.   Then the home machines have similar hardware and sounds, and everyone rejoices at similar home versions of arcade games...

Amiga's Golden Axe was also guilty of this lack-of-proper-soundtrack business.  I don't like swinging swords around to dance club music.  

Quote

Usually it is 2 not 1 though as far as music quality goes, music and effects together has always been tricky on most home computers due to limited total numbers of sound channels. You can't really help it


Japanese consoles/games never seem to have this problem.  MSX, NES, SMS, PC-Engine.... they all handled the sound limitations like a champ.  It's commonplace on these systems for the music to be playing and then a sound effect comes on, toggles one of the channels off to play the sound effect.... and then the music picks up right where it left off.  Perfectly blending sound effects and music without sacrificing anything.......

The omitting one or the other maneuver seems like something you only see on the C64 and sometimes (rarely) the Amiga.  I never understood why.   It really kills a game to not get both, especially if the arcade one had both...

Like R-Type for C64!
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: Piru on May 18, 2010, 04:06:37 PM
Music in this one is IMHO rather nice:

[youtube]yb3Mv05toSo[/youtube]
Title: Re: What is so great about the SID chip?
Post by: XDelusion on May 19, 2010, 12:06:24 AM
Here's a good example of why Retro is good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYxEveEW2r8