Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: cecilia on May 10, 2010, 09:05:31 PM
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[youtube]qp0HIF3SfI4[/youtube]
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How would 'snake oil' psychobabble have helped? LOL
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How would 'snake oil' psychobabble have helped? LOL
various companies over the years have also not appreciated his points and missed their opportunity to push the Amiga the way it deserved.
over the years I have seen people debating here about Amiga being HW or Software and THEY have just Missed the point completely.
AT least I understood it enough to end up with a career
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Cecilia, You're breaking my heart. You've missed an important point:
Why: Only Amiga Makes it Possible.
They did.!
This is not new. Ernie Shackleton 1915. Inspired leadership using the number one "WHY".
BTW:Apple's profit is not just a result of a good proposition or good product or marketing its also result of product lock-in. They've learnt from the past.
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BTW:Apple's profit is not just a result of a good proposition or good product or marketing its also result of product lock-in. They've learnt from the past.
Yes! Did you see Jobs' half an hour infomercial on the Ipad? Apple's recent success can partly be chalked up to mad snake oil salesmen...:)
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1985 Commercial in an alternate world where Amiga took over:
"The new alliance between Commodore, Atari, and Apple, has now come to fruition with the release of the Amiga. IBM and all clone companies are scrambling to obtain manufacturing licences as Amiga takes over the world."
By 2010 it takes over the worlds.
yes worlds we have colonies on Mars, two of Jupiters moons, and an Amiga powered colony on the sun.
Amiga needs no advertising anymore with "miggy" nanites impanted in our brains, providing any and all connectivity and information a person wants.
...but then in 2012 in the alternate universe, the miggy nanites take over and our brains are bypassed and put into a coma like state as the 8.3 billion humans become Agnes, Gary, Denise, Paula, Andrea, and Alice clones trying desparately to shed our meat shells.
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Yes! Did you see Jobs' half an hour infomercial on the Ipad? Apple's recent success can partly be chalked up to mad snake oil salesmen...:)
Forget all about apple crap here please, its an amiga forum.
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@thread
Amiga have their own marketing by the users thanks to the old good days, dont need marketing anymore.
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Forget all about apple crap here please, its an amiga forum.
ZOMG! Someone mentioned a successful computer company as it applied to the thread!!!!1111eleventyone
Honestly, if some folks here are going to continue having an allergic reaction to anyone daring to mention Apple, they are really only going to be setting themselves up as troll-bait and deserve everything they get.
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@cecilia
Really good video. Thanks! :)
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@thread
Amiga have their own marketing by the users thanks to the old good days, dont need marketing anymore.
Much good it did us.
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Yes! Did you see Jobs' half an hour infomercial on the Ipad? Apple's recent success can partly be chalked up to mad snake oil salesmen...:)
Strictly speaking, a snake oil salesman sells something that he knows doesn't work to the gullible. I'm not a fan of Apple, but the products that they put on the market work well.
That was an interesting video.
Hans
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ZOMG! Someone mentioned a successful computer company as it applied to the thread!!!!1111eleventyone
Honestly, if some folks here are going to continue having an allergic reaction to anyone daring to mention Apple, they are really only going to be setting themselves up as troll-bait and deserve everything they get.
on that topic THE most successful amiga-related company is NewTek
and they are still around
btw, i was not suggesting Amiga needs this marketing now. that's over with.
I was refering to what SHOULD have been done. and wasn't
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@cecilia
Really good video. Thanks! :)
http://www.ted.com/ has great stuff...
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You have to have a vision to sell a vision. Once the Amiga was released there was no guiding vision, just sell the thing.
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How would 'snake oil' psychobabble have helped? LOL
Oh, it would've helped a lot. It would've created the reality distortion field needed to propel Amiga to new heights in the minds of millions of superficial shoppers.
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You have to have a vision to sell a vision. Once the Amiga was released there was no guiding vision, just sell the thing.
True. I did hear though that C= marketing had some good people, but many ideas where turned down by upper dupper management. Another thing is that C= never had a cohesive, integrated marketing strategy. Each country was autonomous in how it marketed the products (some country managers could even refuse to sell certain products).
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You have to have a vision to sell a vision. Once the Amiga was released there was no guiding vision, just sell the thing.
Hello !!: "Only Amiga makes IT possible"
And if its not a Vision then this is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6uh1Q_D_XU
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True. I did hear though that C= marketing had some good people, but many ideas where turned down by upper dupper management. Another thing is that C= never had a cohesive, integrated marketing strategy. Each country was autonomous in how it marketed the products (some country managers could even refuse to sell certain products).
I can recommend a good read: On the edge: The rise and fall of commodore. It might enlighten a few people.
20 Million c64s. 5 Million Amigas. At the time (85-93) Amigas being second only in sales to,, dare I say it....Macs. Excluding IBM clones as they were not really computers back then.
Pretty successful really. Recipe for success : Be five years ahead of the norm: Inovation breeds revolution.
But rest on that inovation and you fall behind; The A1200 and A4000 were an evolution not a revolution. Good machines but not 5 years ahead of the mark. nor was the OS.
(sorry for the multi post. getting old)
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on that topic THE most successful amiga-related company is NewTek
and they are still around
Indeed they're used by, amongst others, Leo Laporte of This Week in Tech (http://twit.tv/) fame. I also believe that a lot of the other larger, more successful video casting community use their products too.
btw, i was not suggesting Amiga needs this marketing now. that's over with.
I was refering to what SHOULD have been done. and wasn't
Oh I understand that, don't get me wrong, I was mainly responding to how any mention of Apple automatically results in people whining. In the case of this thread the example given was a perfectly valid one.
Marketing is interesting, even if I don't fully understand the psychology of it.
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I agree with kickstart, this is not Apples ground.
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That's a slogan not a vision. The problem is that Commodore management couldn't tell the difference. Listen to Steve Jobs, he sells a vision and he has a product that matches that vision.
Vision + matching Product = Success
"Only Amiga makes IT possible?" What does that mean to a casual listener? What's IT? Why?
I do agree that the Master of Doom is a Vision, but what a vision it is....
Hello !!: "Only Amiga makes IT possible"
And if its not a Vision then this is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6uh1Q_D_XU
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Amiga's situation....none of it is really to do with marketing as such.
In 1985 the Amiga arrived, it was so advanced it could have fallen off the back of a UFO compared to Apple Mac 1984 version or EGA PC. Now the problem here is the Amiga did things people didn't even know they needed, didn't know were possible or how it could be used to benefit them or their business/home computing.
Now here is the problem, basically you are complaining a company who owned the technology which was so advanced nobody in the world knew what to do with it except possibly make kick-ass arcade quality exceeding games. Right OK problem with that is the OCS chipset was massively expensive as was the 68000. Add to that the development and purchase costs racked up and the fact Commodore had no rip-off scumbag scheme to screw game developers out of money like Nintendo via game sale royalties and all profits had to come from hardware sales only then you appreciate the complexity of the situation. So....how do you convince someone they 'need' a business computer that can do desktop video, photo-realistic static displays or a sound system that could interpret sample files from the Fairlight series of samplers? You can't, these were not even established paradigms in the mid 80s. People didn't even know what to do with speech. The business world was simply not ready for Multimedia.
Also storage technology was decades behind the capabilities of the Amiga, can you stream a video from floppy or crappy DOS MFM 20mb hard drives? No you can't. Was 512k or 2.5mb enough in 1985? No because you can do some incredible things still with 68000/OCS but with 10mb of RAM. What if the iPod had been designed at a time where solid state memory technology hit a brick wall and was stuck at 16mb? How far would the iPod got if storage technology had not increased in leaps and bounds ahead of the core technology of MP3 hardware playback? This was Amiga's problem in the 80s cost of memory and storage technology was just out of home users, and most business users, financial scale.
Apple schmapple, let's face it the original Mac was for airheads and clueless fanboys who valued style over substance (even though A1000 is a much more elegantly designed machine sorry) and it did not do much more than a Timex computer with a 68000 super CPU upgrade tacked on, and the innovative OS was pre-designed for them by Xerox Parc. Useless machine, cost 3x as much as the A1000 and didn't even have colour. Basically it was an overpriced over styled Amstrad all-in-one word processor with greyscale not green screen.
The iPod and iPhone are different, they produced an elegant machine and brushed under the carpet all the serious bad points of both, BUT the MP3 market was already established as was the touch screen cell phone market. Their success was excellent styling and due to them locking you into their stores (iTunes/Appstore) and DRMing and locking both systems completely...hence they made bucketloads of cash. The iPhone was launched with a camera 24 months backwards technically and the original iPod had very mediocre sound quality, people didn't care though which I find really strange.
So again I ask the question, how does this snake oil rubbish apply? Because Microsoft certainly didn't take this approach and they basically annihilated Apple in the 80s/90s/00s/today. 5% of the desktop computer market after 25 years of selling Macs is pathetic. During the reign of the Amiga/ST Apple almost went bankrupt with their stupid overpriced underpowered custom chip absent machines, Apple would have easily gone bankrupt if Commodore had invested in proper R&D or upped the CPU early on. And it wasn't until the Beige PPC Quadra Power Towers with the Wings A/V solution they even cottoned on to desktop video...this is years after things like VLAB and airlink or VLAB PAR let alone Video Toaster. Alan Sugar of Amstrad made millions with a very basic marketing strategy of 'give the people what they want in a single package'. Nobody thought their low rent products would get anywhere...but they got very far in the 80s and 90s without such Psychobable.
The reason Commodore went bust was penny pinching and greed, simple as that. AGA was too little too late (A1200 needed to include either a CPU or custom hardware to allow for Doom type games to run as well as they do on a 25mhz 80386 PC). Also all that fannying around with A2500 and A3000 but no improvement on OCS basic abilities until 1993 was a joke. 8 years in the computer world is the difference between the Atari VCS and Sega Genesis or SNES. A500 came out in 1987, in 1990 what should have come out is 3 layer flexible parallax scrolling, 8 channel sound, 128 colours in any resolution, hardware scaling of bitmaps Sega Outrun arcade motherboard style. Instead we got the A500PLUS with double the chip ram and the same limitations as an A1000 *sigh*
There are only so many people who 'need' a genlock based machine. Bulk of sales went to gamers via A500, this was clearly the right move end of story. How many people sold their Atari ST/PC because it didn't multitask or display 4096 colours in 320x512 or have high quality 8bit DACs? 0.00001% that's how many, it was simply because their action games were rubbish and looked/sounded worse. Job done. Shame about the lack of development until it was too late :)
And if you look at Apple today they are riding on the marketing coat tails of Sony. Sobering thought...the PS2 was very much inferior to the Xbox 1 technically, both had very good games...and yet they sold 90 million more units, sometimes at a higher price, simply because it has a Sony badge on it. Apple do the same, people buy iPods/iPhones/iPads for the cachet of the brand and for them it works. This was achieved at the expensive of selling rubbish products for 300% more than the competition for 2 decades...a risky business strategy indeed. Macbook air is inferior to the lightest Toshiba Portege, and it looks worse IMO but there you go...Toshiba badge is akin to a Toyota badge on your car...does the job without fuss. Apple enjoy the same sort of badge cachet as BMW or Mercedes though, despite their products being so-so technically.
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@Amiga_Nut
You are missing the point. Steve Jobs knew what he wanted years ago, he had vision, a mission if you will, and he was able to get others to believe in his vision. Amiga popped up out of no where, there was no stated or apparent vision and it just sort of sat there. Just a slogan.
Look at Microsoft's advertising. "We get it, Vista was a bad, bad thing, but now we listened to you and we produced a product that fits your lifestyle. We listen." It's not a bad message after all these years and I think enough to stop Mac's further incursion into it's territory.
That's the message of this video, perception is everything. Had Tramiel gotten out there and said we want to put video editing on everyone's desktop, we want to make graphics and and sound a part of your everyday life. We have artists, musicians and film makers as a part of our dream. Come on aboard.
I'm not great at this, but something along those lines would have made sense. Tell people your vision and bring them in on it.
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That's a slogan not a vision. The problem is that Commodore management couldn't tell the difference. Listen to Steve Jobs, he sells a vision and he has a product that matches that vision.
Vision + matching Product = Success
"Only Amiga makes IT possible?" What does that mean to a casual listener? What's IT? Why?
I do agree that the Master of Doom is a Vision, but what a vision it is....
@Amiga_Nut
You are missing the point. Steve Jobs knew what he wanted years ago, he had vision, a mission if you will, and he was able to get others to believe in his vision. Amiga popped up out of no where, there was no stated or apparent vision and it just sort of sat there. Just a slogan.
Look at Microsoft's advertising. "We get it, Vista was a bad, bad thing, but now we listened to you and we produced a product that fits your lifestyle. We listen." It's not a bad message after all these years and I think enough to stop Mac's further incursion into it's territory.
That's the message of this video, perception is everything. Had Tramiel gotten out there and said we want to put video editing on everyone's desktop, we want to make graphics and and sound a part of your everyday life. We have artists, musicians and film makers as a part of our dream. Come on aboard.
I'm not great at this, but something along those lines would have made sense. Tell people your vision and bring them in on it.
QFMFT. This is precisely what was being hinted at earlier in the thread and is a devastatingly accurate explanation of why C= died with its thumb stuck up its arse and why Apple post Sculley/Spindler/Amelio are now one of the hottest properties in the IT business. What I'm curious about now is how Apple will fair once Jobs is out of the picture...
To those here whining at the mere mention of Apple, in this thread, it was a valid, if not the perfect example of how the power of powerful advertising coupled with real vision in action can make a company.
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It is strange to see how shit chickens you can get after a few years.
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Talk about apple, the great mr jobs or get an iphone and be cool... dont be a troll.
Really sad to be a troll just for give an opinion.
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This is not about Trolls.
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Check the #9 post, im just ironic.
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Much worse. Trolls is downpriority.
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Here's a troll advertising the A-Eon site!
(http://www.failfunnies.com/32/images/balloon-troll-fail.jpg)
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.............
Marketing is interesting, even if I don't fully understand the psychology of it.
tell me about it!!! :lol:
I'm an artist.....marketing is still an odd idea, which is one of the reasons I made this thread when I saw the vid. I Know I am lacking in this subject.
and, yet ART is used in marketing. sometimes successfully, often not.
as to the Amiga, I recall when I first saw it. And I IMMEDIATELY understood the possibilities. I visualized making films...individuals on their own making films. WITHout the big studios. WITHout moron businessmen who have no creative soul whatsoever.
And I pursued that (with other amiga like minded persons) and we did good. The industry and YouTube have been forever altered. :)
it's a shame that most people don't understand the history, but the Amiga HAS left a mark.
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It is strange to see how shit chickens you can get after a few years.
Very strange indead. And how do they get the sculptors to make them. Very unhygenic..
Then I never got why you have to serve a qualifying period before you can buy the darn things.... If I knew the answer to that I'd have a back yard full of them by now...
Ohh help me... The tears are back...LOL
BTW: Simon Sinek says: "profit is just an outcome" Try telling that to the CFO when your 2 Billion in the red. Bye Bye visionary.
It may be an outcome in relation to the value chain but it's still a target and a part of EVERY business strategy.
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Well if you are big enough a corporation you can't fail. Look at General Motors, they were bailed out with huge loans from the US Government and were able to pay them back using US Government grants (TARP).
So there's a lesson in that I think, if you do really big stupid things go to your government and they'll loan you money. If you can't pay it back go to your government and they'll give you the money to pay the loans. Pretty nice set up, can't quite fit it into Simon Sinek, mind you....
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There's an old joke along those lines:
If you borrow a million dollars and can't pay it back, you're screwed.
If you borrow 100 million dollars and can't pay it back, the banks screwed.
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I thought this was pretty clever CD32 advertising back in the day. Got to be good when you can still remember it 15+ years on :)
Why didnt they think of more stuff like this.
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6537/cd32bb.jpg)