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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Magazines => Topic started by: Daff on May 08, 2010, 08:26:54 PM
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The magazine Obligement publish today an interview with Trevor Dickinson, director of A-EON Technology. This interview focuses on Trevor himself but also on the coming AmigaOne X1000 and the A-EON company.
English version is here : http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwdickinson_en.php
French version is here : http://obligement.free.fr/articles/itwdickinson.php
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My estimate is the price for the standard A1-X1000 system will be in excess of 1500 euros.
I really can't see anyone buying one for that price.
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I really hope they sell at least a dozen units before they flop. It will be nice retrogear in the future, much like the The Access by Index Information is now (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/access.html).
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Nice interview!
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"The Amiga developer community is also very active and programs like Timberwolf (Firefox) and Open Office are currently being ported to AmigaOS 4"
Truly GREAT news..thanks Trevor:):banana:
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1500 ouch!! I think I better rush my wallet to emergency.
They will probably get about 5 sales. I hope that covers their investment.
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IMO, ~1500€ is ok price for a high end AOS system.
It will be one of the cheapest Amigas I have ever bought.
800€ for SAM440flex seems like a lot of money when compared to x1000...
(perhaps ok price also for the most advanced Power architecture system on desktop)
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It will be one of the cheapest Amigas I have ever bought.
Interesting things these price comparisons. Especially since the HW prices don't stay static.
What kind of Amiga was more expensive really (lets talk about actual value of the money and relative HW prices of similar spec systems from the period)?
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Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.
Our constant is £1500 - Launch price in UK of A1000 and suggested launch price of X1000
Average UK house price in 1985 £31000
Average UK house price in 2010 £223000
Therefore an A1000 (£1500) was 4.8% of the average house value in 1985
Whereas an X1000 (£1500) will be 0.67% of the average house value in 2010
So an X1000 today is about 7.2x less expensive than an A1000 in 1985.
Clearly ignoring the technological gulf that the A1000 represented in 1985 ;)
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Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.
That's one way of measuring it. Not necessarily the one I was looking after. Computer value doesn't exactly follow the same pattern as house prices. ;-)
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Especially in the UK, where it is widely acknowledged that house prices have risen disproportionately in recent decades.
A different indicator of value is called for, I think.
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Anyway, a nice interview. That's quite a collection Trevor has :-o
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1500 ouch!! I think I better rush my wallet to emergency.
They will probably get about 5 sales. I hope that covers their investment.
Hmmmm I guess I will have to wait until its released and hear the reactions...then decide if divorce from my wife will be worth it. Haha
I must say the interview was nice and Trevor has certainly best intentions at heart. I wish them luck...its not like he took my 50 bucks. :)
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At the time of writing the kernel is up and running and the A1-X1000 can already boot up the AmigaOS 4.1 Update Workbench/install CD. This is the first time that an AmigaOS has run on a 64-bit Power CPU.
Running on a 64-bit processor is not quite the same thing as running 64-bit natively. I'm assuming that this is still a 32-bit build of the OS?
I wonder if a PAE kernel is in the pipeline to bridge the 32->64-bit gap? OS4 native apps that rely on MEMF_PRIVATE for most of their needs could presumably benefit from it.
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Wow! click on the pictures links for his harware collection! That's some serious Commodore porn!!!! :D
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I wonder if a PAE kernel is in the pipeline to bridge the 32->64-bit gap? OS4 native apps that rely on MEMF_PRIVATE for most of their needs could presumably benefit from it.
AFAIK PAE is something x86 specific.
Staf.
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AFAIK PAE is something x86 specific.
Staf.
I did wonder about that, I thought it might have been a "general" method of large memory model support for 32-bit systems. It's been a while since I've looked into this sort of stuff.
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That's one way of measuring it. Not necessarily the one I was looking after. Computer value doesn't exactly follow the same pattern as house prices. ;-)
I'm afraid the only comparison anyone is going to make is to comparable modern hardware. Comparing it to hardware of the time, or even houses, isn't going to drive sales. Period.
Ed.
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The reality is, £1500 is not a lot if it earns its keep somehow doing things better or differently than other platforms.
You cannot compare a small scale custom machine like this, built for a low volume market of users that have almost begged for this kind of machine and performance for there favourite AmigaOS4 that HAS to run on PowerPC, soon you will have it, get your credit cards preloaded with some cash.
This price is fair for what you are getting, not in a cost comparison with commodity hardware but with high end kit. Mac Pros start at this kind of price and they are mass market pro end kit. Check out a high end Games PC and you are looking well over a £1000.
Bottom line is forgetting, can I afford one which personally is not yet, I believe they are worth the money and they will please there new owners no end with a huge smile on there face. Plus they will once the potential starts to be realised, offer some great new features for a personal computer. Look at the A1000, only 4096 colours, then DCTV with 24 bit just by encoding a 16 colour images through some custom electronics and outputting to a composite output, genius. Mine then reverts back to RGB so my 25 year old A1000 has 24 bit animation.
I for one will save up, sell some old kit, part ex the girl friend and may even sell my Alfa to buy one. Well maybe not the Alfa :-)
Steve
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I'm presently facing the possibility of being made redundant in the near future, so I won't be buying any new hardware until that's clearer.
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@Karlos
Understood, but the point is, is this a lot for a high end computer.
http://store.apple.com/uk-business/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro
From £1940, I know which I would prefer and it is not named after fruit.
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The reality is, £1500 is not a lot if it earns its keep somehow doing things better or differently than other platforms.
The thing is it really doesn't. Not on any level to justify such a price tag.
The truth is that Windows, Mac OS X and even Linux beat the crap out of any NG amigoid system in any given task.
£1500 is a lot of money for just a "feel good" hobby system.
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Yea, this is really a bird in hand/two in bush argument, with dreamers talking about how awesome the new amiga is gonna be but never having seen how awesome it is (or isn't). Sigh...
Amigans have learned nothing after all these years.
Ed.
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@Karlos
Understood, but the point is, is this a lot for a high end computer.
http://store.apple.com/uk-business/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro
From £1940, I know which I would prefer and it is not named after fruit.
Quad-Core
One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor
3GB (three 1GB) memory
640GB hard drive
18x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB
That's disgraceful. Aside from the CPU/memory specs, my current PC stands up well to that and cost considerably less almost 2 years ago.
Comparable specs, when originally built:
2.66GHz Quad Core Q9450 processor
4GB DDR3 (dual channel rated 6-6-6 at 1600MHz, running at 1333MHz (CPU FSB) with 5-5-5 timing)
500GB SATA 2 HD
24x DVD RW (not blu ray though)
NVidia GTX260 with 896MB
Total cost was just over half the cost of the above Mac and that includes the Coolermaster Cosmos-S case, 850W CoolerMaster ultra-high efficiency modular PSU, Gigabyte GA-X48T-DQ6 motherboard (intel express X48 chipset, 2x PCIe 16 - both capable of full speed operation when occupied simultaneously) as well as the fact the CPU and graphics card were virutally fresh out of their respective stables at the time. Never mind the cost of DDR3 then!
Since then, I've replaced the gfx card (the hazard of buying bleeding edge) and added more storage and it still doesn't put much of a dent in the remaining price difference.
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The thing is it really doesn't. Not on any level to justify such a price tag.
Whether you're willing to pay >£1500 for an Amiga, and whether the price tag is justified, are two different things. Clearly you're not willing to pay >£1500, but that doesn't mean the price tag is not justified.
The price is justified because the target market is so small. I think it's unfair to compare the cost of this system to that of modern PCs because the market conditions are totally different. Given that AEON were never expecting to sell high quantities of these systems, and that they've had the motherboard designed from scratch (not just based on an existing design), I think they've done well to keep the price tag below £2000. It's economies of scale unfortunately!
If we compare it to second hand Blizzard (or Cysberstorm) PPC cards selling on Ebay, then the price tag suddenly becomes very attractive indeed. Recently I saw a Blizzard PPC card go for over £600 on Ebay! Granted it was the top spec card, but it'll have nowhere near the performance of the X1000 and also it's second hand, over 10 years old.
I'm not sure if I'm going to buy one yet. I think I'd be willing to part with the money for the X1000, so if I had plenty of money in the bank I'd definitely be getting one, but the question is whether I can justify the purchase of the X1000 in the face of some important jobs that need doing around the house and stuff like that. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to get one but I think I'm going to have to wait until the latter part of the year before I can save the money.
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The truth is that Windows, Mac OS X and even Linux beat the crap out of any NG amigoid system in any given task.
Are you sure you didn't you mean:
The truth is that Linux, Windows and even Mac OS X beat the crap out of any NG amigoid system in any given task.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Talking about the justification of the price tag is a bit misleading. Unless someone is trying to assert that the manufacturer of the system will be making a huge profit on each unit sold, there isn't really much to justify, only something to explain. A minority platform using non-mainstream hardware is subject to cost escalation that common mainstream hardware is not. With those factors taken into account, the system will cost whatever it costs.
Precisely why, I might add, the cost of the Mac system above does need justifying since it is now using "mainstream" hardware. The Xeon processor is phenomenally expensive for x86 hardware and, unless you are running a server, it's hard to see what specific advantage it gives you for desktop computing over say a Core 2 / Core i7, both of which are significantly less expensive.
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If we compare it to second hand Blizzard (or Cysberstorm) PPC cards selling on Ebay, then the price tag suddenly becomes very attractive indeed.
If we compare it against second hand PowerPC Macintosh hardware selling on Ebay, then the price tag suddenly becomes extremely unattractive indeed.
I've gotten two Mac Minis (one 1.5GHz with 64MB Video Memory) and a PowerBook 1.67GHz 2GB RAM etc for about half of that £1500 (granted that doesn't include the OS license, as obviously I don't need to pay for those).
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I've gotten two Mac Minis (one 1.5GHz with 64MB Video Memory) and a PowerBook 1.67GHz 2GB RAM etc for about half of that £1500 (granted that doesn't include the OS license, as obviously I don't need to pay for those).
Okay, yes I can see why you'd use that argument and it is a perfectly valid one. I can't say I disagree with it because I myself am going to struggle to find >£1500 for an X1000 and if instead it were available for old MAC systems then I'd probably jump on that band wagon as well.
The only issue I see with the second hand MAC idea is that I'm not sure for how long the prices would stay low, nor for how long they'd still be widely available. If OS4 were released for old MAC systems then potentially there could be a "mad dash" for them on Ebay and that itself would push up the prices, especially if the MAC people got wind of their new-found desirable status.
There is also the issue that the MAC systems are less powerful than the Amiga machine we're likely to see from AEON and a lot less expandable. So the MAC systems would be a good temporary move, but I remain unconvinced that they'd be a good permanent move. At some point we'd still need a new (high end) system, and the X1000 satisfies that right now. It's a lot of money to spend, but it's going to remain a very useable system for AmigaOS for *years* to come.
Also, if the X1000 turns out to be well accepted by the Amiga community, it could be securing future hardware developments. So that's a good thing as well.
AH.
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The only issue I see with the second hand MAC idea is that I'm not sure for how long the prices would stay low, nor for how long they'd still be widely available.
They'll easily outlive any custom amiga HW offerings. Try to find AmigaONE from Ebay. Now try to find Mac Mini G4 from Ebay.
See?
If OS4 were released for old MAC systems then potentially there could be a "mad dash" for them on Ebay and that itself would push up the prices, especially if the MAC people got wind of their new-found desirable status.
The number of PowerPC Macintosh hardware easily outnumbers any potential userbase for AmigaOS4, and thus the prices would stay reasonable.
There is also the issue that the MAC systems are less powerful than the Amiga machine we're likely to see from AEON and a lot less expandable.
That remains to be seen. 1.5GHz G4 isn't to be sneezed at, especially when MorphOS is so much faster than OS4 on the same HW. Later MorphOS is probably going to support even faster Macintosh hardware (I have a 1.67GHz powerbook running MorphOS already... but when that will be available for end users remains to be seen).
Also, the initial OS4 will use only one of the cores, and is likely to run in 32bit mode, and there won't be 3d acceleration for the included ATI card. That's somewhat of a bummer if you compare it against the Mac MorphOS offerings.
Expandability isn't much of an issue since the HW driver support for all amigoid systems is abysmal anyway. OS4 still lacks proper USB2 drivers for example.
Also, if the X1000 turns out to be well accepted by the Amiga community, it could be securing future hardware developments.
Even if the whole remaining Amiga community would get one it'd still be highly debatable if the project would be profitable. Yes, it really is that bad. HW projects are insanely expensive to pull off.
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1500 ouch!! I think I better rush my wallet to emergency.
They will probably get about 5 sales. I hope that covers their investment.
I'd bet somewhere between 200 and 350 total sales for the X1000 which would be a fatal disaster.
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Also, the initial OS4 will use only one of the cores, and is likely to run in 32bit mode, and there won't be 3d acceleration for the included ATI card. That's somewhat of a bummer if you compare it against the Mac MorphOS offerings.
That presupposes that the above situation will not change. I would be surprised if someone had gone to the effort of building new hardware, in a market as fragile as this one, without making sure the hardware could be properly utilised by the OS either on release, or without a serious feasibility study as to whether or not the OS can move in that direction.
You can cite the USB as a precedent, of course, but underutilizing USB is a far less serious waste of resources than running a 32-bit only uniprocessor OS on a dual core 64-bit CPU with 4 DIMM slots available to it. At least one of those issues has been mentioned previously (SMP).
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Also, the initial OS4 will use only one of the cores, and is likely to run in 32bit mode, and there won't be 3d acceleration for the included ATI card.
Yes, that is correct, but it is the intention of the OS4 Dev team to implement these features in the future. The migration to 64-bit and also multiple cores are very significant milestones so I think it's fair that a relatively small dev team with limited resources are going to take quite some time to pull it off. In the meantime, at least we'll have the necessary hardware to benefit from these features as and when they become available.
It would be no good Hyperion releasing an update supporting dual core if nobody in the Amiga community had a dual core machine to use. This way they can target their development to a specific platform that they know will be in use by people interested in AmigaOS. I think this is the only realistic way they could move things forwards.
1.5GHz G4 isn't to be sneezed at, especially when MorphOS is so much faster than OS4 on the same HW. Later MorphOS is probably going to support even faster Macintosh hardware
Well, if MorphOS is your main interest then you're already in a position to use good, cheap, second hand Mac hardware and as such you shouldn't be too disappointed that OS4 isn't going to run on it? It's clear to me that >£1500 for a system that runs OS4 isn't going to make much sense to you if your main interest is MorphOS and you've already bought some MAC hardware to run it on. That's fine. Good luck to MorphOS, I hope it runs very well on those machines and I hope people get a lot of fun out of it.
But, it seems to me that some people who promote MorphOS are a little disgruntled about the X1000 announcement because they don't want a situation where OS4 can be considered to be running on better hardware than MorphOS. Of course, nobody on the MorphOS side is going to admit to that, but it's certainly the impression I get from some people. I don't understand why, because as long as you're getting cheap MAC hardware to run your OS on (which, as you pointed out, the performance is not to be sneezed at - it's pretty damned good), then you should just be happy and content with that. If other people are willing to pay >£1500 for the X1000 system to run OS4 on, and you don't want it anyway, then why should you feel the need to pour scorn on it?
That's the bit I don't understand. But there you go. I'm sure if it were the other way around (MorphOS guys getting a nice £1500 system to run their OS on) it would be some individuals on the AmigaOS side of the fence trying to down play it and ridicule it instead. That's life.
AH.
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Eh, if you ain't gettin' it, AH, 'cause you don't _want_ to get it. Sorry to be blunt, but that's how I'm seein' your responses.
The majority of us that don't like the X1000's price don't criticize it because we love MorphOS (I'm in the x86 camp), we do it because, and I know this is hard to see: we don't like the _PRICE._
It's really very simple: In order for AmigaOS to be a viable OS again, it needs a user base. That will bring more developers, which will attract more users. More users, more developers, which will lead to more users, followed by developers. Etc, etc, etc...
And the best way to get the ol' ball rollin' is _hardware everyone can afford._
This isn't very complicated at all, but some people see only what they want to see.
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And the best way to get the ol' ball rollin' is _hardware everyone can afford._
This isn't very complicated at all, but some people see only what they want to see.
Well, there is already hardware for AmigaOS that people can afford. That's what the entry level SAM systems are for. I suppose you could still critisise the SAM systems as being expensive if you're going to compare their performance/price ratio, but again that comes down to economies of scale and there's nothing we can do about that right now. But, the fact remains, there are already affordable alternatives to run AmigaOS4 on if people prefer to go down that route. The X1000 isn't cheap because it's a high end system and, in small market like this, it's going to command high prices. Still, even those prices aren't too bad when you consider what we're already putting up with on the second hand Amiga accelerator market.
AH.
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They'll easily outlive any custom amiga HW offerings. Try to find AmigaONE from Ebay. Now try to find Mac Mini G4 from Ebay.
In all fairness, this isn't really about hardware longevity as it is numbers, is it?
You can find a deluge of second hand PPC macs simply because they were turned out in far larger numbers (than any PPC amiga hardware) to begin with and then rendered obsolete amongst their user base overnight by an architecture switch.
In comparison, PPC-based amiga machines (A1 - all flavours, Peg, Peg 2, Efika, Sam etc) have been produced in much smaller numbers. Most of the people that have bought them tend to keep them and whilst there has been a fair attrition rate on some of the old A1 / Peg 1 machines, it's probably fair to say most of them are still working. They just aren't for sale.
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Yes, that is correct, but it is the intention of the OS4 Dev team to implement these features in the future.
Like the 3D system overhaul that has been dragging for years now? Or the inability to get even 8500/9100 3D working with the current system? The ATI card intended to be used with X1000 currently has only basic 2D support. It doesn't look too bright IMHO.
The migration to 64-bit and also multiple cores are very significant milestones so I think it's fair that a relatively small dev team with limited resources are going to take quite some time to pull it off. In the meantime, at least we'll have the necessary hardware to benefit from these features as and when they become available.
That somewhat reminds me of people getting earlybird setups to run Linux. I would never do that, get extremely expensive hardware to limp by with fraction of the HW capabilities.
It would be no good Hyperion releasing an update supporting dual core if nobody in the Amiga community had a dual core machine to use. This way they can target their development to a specific platform that they know will be in use by people interested in AmigaOS. I think this is the only realistic way they could move things forwards.
Well obviously they think that they can. I don't. The 64bit target will just splinter their platform even more. It already is split into small sections, for instance ones with Altivec and ones without. With such hideously expensive platform they'll be driving themselves into corner they can't back out of.
Well, if MorphOS is your main interest then you're already in a position to use good, cheap, second hand Mac hardware and as such you shouldn't be too disappointed that OS4 isn't going to run on it?
Correct, I am not disappointed. I know a lot of OS4 users are. It's evident enough looking at the reception the Mac mini leak got. It seems the conditioning has now worked though. The new mantra "2nd hand is evil, must have new hw" seems to have been conditioned into the minds of the remaining faithfuls.
It's clear to me that >£1500 for a system that runs OS4 isn't going to make much sense to you if your main interest is MorphOS and you've already bought some MAC hardware to run it on. That's fine. Good luck to MorphOS, I hope it runs very well on those machines and I hope people get a lot of fun out of it.
It runs great and I'm doing my best to make it run even better.
But, it seems to me that some people who promote MorphOS are a little disgruntled about the X1000 announcement because they don't want a situation where OS4 can be considered to be running on better hardware than MorphOS.
It would seem like that for some, yes.
Of course, nobody on the MorphOS side is going to admit to that, but it's certainly the impression I get from some people. I don't understand why, because as long as you're getting cheap MAC hardware to run your OS on (which, as you pointed out, the performance is not to be sneezed at - it's pretty damned good), then you should just be happy and content with that.
They're probably worried OS4 users are going for yet another "trap", whatever that means. Like they were warned of the problems of the Articia. Those warnings were blatantly ignored, while now it's an accepted fact that Articia was a major disaster. The whole quality issues of the original AmigaOne series were major contributing factor to failure of the project (yes, I consider it a failure: For instance manufacturer warranties weren't respected and the dealers were left to carry the burden. This isn't something that is recalled fondly among the dealers I can reassure you).
If other people are willing to pay >£1500 for the X1000 system to run OS4 on, and you don't want it anyway, then why should you feel the need to pour scorn on it?
I presume these people want to warn OS4 users about yet another such incident, quite possibly unwarranted.
I'm sure if it were the other way around (MorphOS guys getting a nice £1500 system to run their OS on) it would be some individuals on the AmigaOS side of the fence trying to down play it and ridicule it instead.
Quite possibly.
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In all fairness, this isn't really about hardware longevity as it is numbers, is it?
Of course. But I also consider Apple HW superior to any AmigaOne. Build quality, durability, parts & repair availability are superior. It's a win-win situation.
Well, except that you can't get the PowePC Macintosh under warranty. But it's so cheap that you can actually replace the HW easily. The spare parts will be available for years to come, which is not going to happen for a computer with a production run of thousands.
So to recap, yes, it's mostly about numbers. And it's a good thing.
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I really dont understand this Anti-Amiga talk.
Cant people just support Amiga developers ?
Small companies have to grow before they can successfully build systems in large batches.
When the X1000 takes off we will increase the Amiga userbase by 1000-2000 !
Commodore made their own hardware, used their own parts and sold Amigas in 50,000 batches.
Commodore did not make Amiga from zero startup - they used the profit of millions of C64 sales and used its staff.
Commodore was founded in 1954.
C64 released in 1982 (28 years later)
Amiga 1000 released in 1985 (31 years later)
So A-eon have 31 years to create an Amiga equivelent to technological advances made in 1985.
So 2041 is the year to look out for :-)
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I'd bet somewhere between 200 and 350 total sales for the X1000 which would be a fatal disaster.
I'd bet somewhere between 200 and 350 total users of Aros...
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I wont buy MorphOS on dead end hardware. The Mac people would just laugh at me taking their scraps.
This parasitic route is not the way for me.
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I wont buy MorphOS on dead end hardware. The Mac people would just laugh at me taking their scraps.
This parasitic route is not the way for me.
Just as with the the "I bet they'll sell a dozen units" type remarks we've heard, I think that's equally a bit uncalled for. I think you are really trying to say is that you wouldn't buy MorphOS, period. Without a hardware vendor, releasing the OS for PPC Mac was probably the smartest move available for a software team. Either that, or go x86, for which there already is a free alternative.
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I wont buy MorphOS on dead end hardware.
Following this argument you won't buy OS4 on X1000 either, as it's even more dead end.
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Following this argument you won't buy OS4 on X1000 either, as it's even more dead end.
Can you even have degrees of dead-endedness? If you take it as meaning "lacking opportunities for development or advancement", then something is either dead-end or it isn't *shrug*
As long as a piece of hardware is in production, it has the potential to be developed further.
PPC Macs are not in active production or development. Viewed purely as a piece of hardware, it is, according to the above definition, dead-end. As are the old A1, Pegasos et al, not to mention classic Amiga models. The only opportunity for any form of advancement they all have are the ongoing development of software (including OS).
I have several dead-end machines and their dead-endedness has not proven to be a barrier to having any fun with them :)
I'd be quite happy to own more, finances permitting ;)
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Dickinson seems like a great guy. You almost want to pay 1500 euro for the system just to let the dream live and help out another Amiga user.
But then reality takes you back...
-In a perfect os4 world there would be no 150 euro MOS on 150 euro Apple hardware.
-In a perfect os4 + MOS world there would be no 0 euro AROS on 0 euro hardware.
Its going to be an interesting year from an Amiga perspective IMHO
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All this stuff about the high price is a bit silly, for what it is, it's actually very reasonable (eg I don't they A-Eon are going to get rich selling them).
I think it's also pretty obvious that if this thing sells 'enough' units, then we can expect a cheaper version from the A-Eon boys.
It will be a interesting time ahead and if it does all fall over in a big heap, at least OS4 would have gone out with a bang.......is there a better way?
:)
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Now that I know more about those involved in the project, I have to say for the first time that I'm actually excited about this. I'm not excited about the price, but the project yes! :)
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The reality is, £1500 is not a lot if it earns its keep somehow doing things better or differently than other platforms.
You cannot compare a small scale custom machine like this, built for a low volume market of users that have almost begged for this kind of machine and performance for there favourite AmigaOS4 that HAS to run on PowerPC, soon you will have it, get your credit cards preloaded with some cash.
This price is fair for what you are getting, not in a cost comparison with commodity hardware but with high end kit. Mac Pros start at this kind of price and they are mass market pro end kit. Check out a high end Games PC and you are looking well over a £1000.
Bottom line is forgetting, can I afford one which personally is not yet, I believe they are worth the money and they will please there new owners no end with a huge smile on there face. Plus they will once the potential starts to be realised, offer some great new features for a personal computer. Look at the A1000, only 4096 colours, then DCTV with 24 bit just by encoding a 16 colour images through some custom electronics and outputting to a composite output, genius. Mine then reverts back to RGB so my 25 year old A1000 has 24 bit animation.
I for one will save up, sell some old kit, part ex the girl friend and may even sell my Alfa to buy one. Well maybe not the Alfa :-)
Steve
NEVER, EVER sell the Alfa? Are you nuts?! Which Alfa is it by the way? :)
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The truth is that Windows, Mac OS X and even Linux beat the crap out of any NG amigoid system in any given task.
£1500 is a lot of money for just a "feel good" hobby system.
AMEN! Give me an "AmigaOne" that I can use to run Windows and/or Mac OS X and I'll gladly pay the price for the board.
Once again, it's what they wanted and that's great, for them. If I'm gonna burn that kinda cash on a computer, I'm going to build one that does *ALL* of the things I need it to do now, running the applications I currently use.
I wish them all the best, though.
-M
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I wont buy MorphOS on dead end hardware. The Mac people would just laugh at me taking their scraps.
This parasitic route is not the way for me.
Then don't. I seriously doubt the developers mind, as that's just one more machine available to those that do. :lol:
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I'd bet somewhere between 200 and 350 total users of Aros...
Which is way up from the few dozen. There are now two commercially available systems that run AROS being sold and a third (ARM) in the pipeline and none of those are asking $2,000USD if a person opted to purchase a new system.
I will also point out to you that C= sold mostly A500/A600/A1200 and very few big box Amigas as a percentage of total sales. Their cash cow the low cost systems because it would sell in high volume. One could reasonably say that if C= had never made the A500/A1200, that would have been the end of the Amiga line because they couldn't generate that type of revenue (because the lack of popularity) for future sales and cover their R&D/T&E costs. It was the low end Amigas (A500/A1200) that generated momentum to create a market for the big box Amigas.
Or if you want to look at it another way, commercial coders want to have a reasonable size market to enter into to recoup their cost of making or porting software. Without the software, who is going to buy any system, especially if it's a high price one? If you sold a few hundred units, what commercial company is going to be interested vs selling tens or hundreds of thousand units @ year? A-EON going high end with high end price tag without having a sizeable low end base to attract users and devs and hope to achieve critical mass has missed something very obvious, IMO.
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....I for one will save up, sell some old kit, part ex the girl friend and may even sell my Alfa to buy one. Well maybe not the Alfa :-)
Steve
great comparison Steve but please don't sell the Alfa ! computers are great but nothing beats a nice drive on a beautiful day:)
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Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.
Our constant is £1500 - Launch price in UK of A1000 and suggested launch price of X1000
Average UK house price in 1985 £31000
Average UK house price in 2010 £223000
Therefore an A1000 (£1500) was 4.8% of the average house value in 1985
Whereas an X1000 (£1500) will be 0.67% of the average house value in 2010
So an X1000 today is about 7.2x less expensive than an A1000 in 1985.
I hear VCRs and CD players were relatively expensive when they came out. Computers are a commodity now, how expensive an A1000 was in 1985 is no longer meaningful.
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Exactly, why not port OS 4 to the Limebook (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31329&forum=33)?
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I still kind of wonder why no one has made a deal with some Chinese factory to churn out a run of Amiga 1200s with updated CPU to sell for $99-149?Or even "stock" A1200 card in a small case sans kybd and floppy?
Didn't someone put the C64 in a joystick?
I play around with MorphOS-demo occasionally on 2 efikas and one Mac mini 1.5,just can't justify the license fee to myself in view of free linux and existing Win?ac OS.I am one of those not too proud to use an older computer or drive an older car as long as it gets the job done .
IF I had the $1500 to spare then I would probably buy an AEon 1000 for the uniqueness and as a bit of support for the hobby;of course,IF I had the money to spare then I would have already bought a SAM long ago.(And sent Piru and friends some money ,too.!)
How many here lurk because they maintain a fond interest in things Amiga but can't spend the money for current hardware?
Perhaps it is simlar to people who go see classic cars of their youth and admire those cars but just can't justify one in their household budget?
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Well, there is already hardware for AmigaOS that people can afford. That's what the entry level SAM systems are for. I suppose you could still critisise the SAM systems as being expensive if you're going to compare their performance/price ratio, but again that comes down to economies of scale and there's nothing we can do about that right now.
Yes, Sam440 is too expensive. It has been released 5 years later than Pegasos2 and is both slower and more expensive. We are talking in both cases (Peg2 and Sam440) about a small market so the low performance and the high price lacks any sense if you really want to make OS4 popular.
But, the fact remains, there are already affordable alternatives to run AmigaOS4 on if people prefer to go down that route.
I'm afraid there are not. Sam440 is not affordable. Moana would have been affordable but Hyperion decided to milk the users forcing them to buy überexpensive outdated hardware.
The X1000 isn't cheap because it's a high end system and, in small market like this, it's going to command high prices.
Our definition of "high-end" seems to differ. x1000 cpu is almost low end by today's standards. You can only find slower cpus in netbooks and even some of them now have dualcore Atoms (probably faster).
Still, even those prices aren't too bad when you consider what we're already putting up with on the second hand Amiga accelerator market.
Second hand Amiga accelerators are überexpensive collectors retro stuff, something that hardly looks reasonable once you use 5 minutes MorphOS/OS4 on a Mac Mini.
It's a pity they didn't publish Mac Mini version as they could have easily multiplied by 2 current OS4 base.
What AmigaOS4 needs is expanding its userbase to the maximum and x1000 won't achieve that. A powerbook G4 release would sell much more than any sam/x1000 version.
All in all: switching to 64bit will break binary compatibility, they could port it to x86 while they are doing that. If you sum the money invested in creating x1000, porting the OS to it and adding new features... you could do a x86-64 version using AROS drivers to save up developer time.
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Given history of Amiga users software "sharing" the owners of Amiga OS probably feel that a hardware dongle is the only way to ensure they make a little profit.
Perhaps Amiga OS owners Hyperion should have discussions with MorphOS developers and learn how to implement similar software lock to hardware?
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If I will demonstrate the new computer to friends who are former Amiga users I do not forward an Mac or Microsoft-PC, it would be purely ridiculous, the Amiga is about more than just an OS.
But I agree the price is somewhat high if you add tax and shipping, at least for me.
...and a good and interesting interview. Time to save money for a few months+ ahead.
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The Amiga was about doing more with cutting edge hardware and software. The new AmigaOS/AmigaOne is not cutting edge in either. The X1000 is an elitist hobbyist machine. It's about bragging rights in an ever shrinking community.
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The Amiga was about doing more with cutting edge hardware and software. The new AmigaOS/AmigaOne is not cutting edge in either. The X1000 is an elitist hobbyist machine. It's about bragging rights in an ever shrinking community.
I'd say that is a perfect summary.
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Interesting interview
I was a little shocked at the price though, i know i shouldnt be as everything in Amiga-land is priced quite high. My 2+ year old quad core PC cost less than this by quite a margin all in.
I hope you guys do well with it, good to see some new hardware and all that dedication.
The price rules me out though. X500 maybe? :)
Fantastic amount of Commodore hardware you got Trevor. You should open a Museum, I'd pay for admission, but don't go charging to much ;)
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You should open a Museum, I'd pay for admission, but don't go charging to much ;)
No problem. Admission free to all Amigans, whatever flavour! ;-)
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The Amiga was about doing more with cutting edge hardware and software. The new AmigaOS/AmigaOne is not cutting edge in either. The X1000 is an elitist hobbyist machine. It's about bragging rights in an ever shrinking community.
I'd say that is a perfect summary.
Change "elitist" to "religious" and I'll agree with you both 100%, instead of just 99.9% . The Amiga is a religion anymore, with acolytes, heretics and a few agnostics here and there; the pragmatists all fled a long time ago...
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Change "elitist" to "religious" and I'll agree with you both 100%, instead of just 99.9% . The Amiga is a religion anymore, with acolytes, heretics and a few agnostics here and there; the pragmatists all fled a long time ago...
I don't quite know where I fit into that. I have a fairly modern PC (2 years old, nearly, but a decent enough spec), I use other OSes, but I still retain several classics, an A1 and I was hoping to get a PPC mac for MOS2 and contemplating this X1000 machine too.
Alas, the old job security took a kick lately and such plans are now on hold for the moment.
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When the X1000 takes off we will increase the AmigaOne userbase by 1000-2000 !
^I fixed it for you.
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OSnews (http://www.osnews.com/story/23270/Interview_Trevor_Dickinson_A-EON_Technology)
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Never really liked the boing ball that case is gonna be dead ugly. Good interview though. I hope the motherboard will be available separately at some point...
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I'm still astonished that there exist people prepared to gamble good money on making custom hardware, to write an OS from scratch and to write drivers for that OS from scratch.
Personally, without knowing the numbers, I can't see how a business case can be put forward for this venture to be successful.
IMO its too expensive, but I always think that when I see ancient amiga 68k hardware sell for the prices that it does.
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Interesting things these price comparisons. Especially since the HW prices don't stay static.
What kind of Amiga was more expensive really (lets talk about actual value of the money and relative HW prices of similar spec systems from the period)?
My bare A500 was cheaper (4900FMK/~800€) but it was a low end machine.
My SAM (system) was cheaper (800€-1000€) but also it is a low end HW. (y1998 x86 performance? bought ten years later)
A2000 had 9000FMK/~1500€ price tag, less MIPS than on similarly priced PC systems of 1989, but ofcourse it then was not "behind" the mainstream at all (I got ~50% discount when mine was imported by my friend, not PCIDATA, IIRC list prices of my systems components was well above 20000FMK (1MCHIP,2MFAST,68000,20MB HDD,PC-XT-emu,NecMultisync)
A4000/040/6M cost 14500FMK/~2400€ without HDD (and in 1994 it already was behind high end PCs in many "numbers", year before it's list price was 17000FIM, IIRC)
In 1996/1997 I upgraded to 060/50 and it cost ~1200€ and it was years behind high end pentiums in pure numbers (and being only a CPU card)
...
x1000 is a mix of 2005...2007 CPU performance (more than enough for all our available SW, more than I imagine I ever need (stupid me?)) + almost the most modern GPGPU bus, so (IMO) better price/performance than on SAM & others AOS systems.
And ofcourse I value AmigaSW a lot, while the mainstream laughs at it.
And and the geekport! ;-)
Outside the red "AOS" world:
(to me x1000 is like a 2995€ G5 HW that was sold as new 5 years ago, now the same Mac can be bought for about 500-600€ ? But it is old & used & has some older technologies, slower buses, more noice, etc.)
((My MOS HW cost 220€+the MOS. No sane people that already have moved to MOS is going to buy x1000, but I nowdays am a little bit multicoloured and in the between of the official OS and the other(s)))
Hopefully there will be low end models with the same SoC ASAP!
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@ Trevor
You said you can't say what the CPU is because of a NDA. Could you tell us which of the commonly suggested CPUs it's not? Eliminating some of the debated CPUs would save some folks time from arguing. :)
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Originally Posted by Piru
"Interesting things these price comparisons. Especially since the HW prices don't stay static.
What kind of Amiga was more expensive really (lets talk about actual value of the money and relative HW prices of similar spec systems from the period)?"
Well In Aus a bare A4000 68040 was $4000 Aus, ie $2800 Euro. (Interestingly an A1200 was $1200.)
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Classic A4000s are selling for 500 pounds on ebay.
1500 pounds for a high performance complete system with OS sounds okay to me.
I'm not sure what people expect for such a specialised market. If they can't make a profit they cant make anymore or anything else.
I hope seeing Trevor's NZ connection there is a distributor way over here. Hope but doubt.
gertsy
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Classic A4000s are selling for 500 pounds on ebay.
1500 pounds for a high performance complete system with OS sounds okay to me.
I'm not sure what people expect for such a specialised market. gertsy
That's the thing, people want current mainstream hardware, not niche hardware. Special hardware was back during our custom chip days. Those days are long gone, there is no reason to be paying high prices for under performing hardware because of a badge. The idea of building market share on high priced hardware with nothing but old memories as it's appeal is not a business plan I would want to follow. Especially when the world economy is entering into a lost decade.
If the A1X1K was a tablet running OS4 with a bunch of pre-installed classic games for ~$500USD, that would a possible winner. That could build a nice market share because it's modern and wouldn't cost that much so you can have many end users. Many end users inspire indie game publishers to come sell their wares which brings more users. That creates a ecosystem that can not only survive but grow with out having millions of units sold.
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But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does. Only it is far more costly than either of those....
Classic A4000s are selling for 500 pounds on ebay.
1500 pounds for a high performance complete system with OS sounds okay to me.
I'm not sure what people expect for such a specialised market. If they can't make a profit they cant make anymore or anything else.
I hope seeing Trevor's NZ connection there is a distributor way over here. Hope but doubt.
gertsy
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But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does. Only it is far more costly than either of those....
Only the last part of your observation is correct. The first part is not. Neither OS4 or MOS run classic software in the same way a "Mac or PC" running UAE does. In both OS4 and MOS, system-friendly 68k apps run translated within the host operating system, wherein OS calls are ultimately routed to native code. Furthermore whilst UAE exists for both platforms to run software that does require classic hardware emulation, even that has been integrated rather more seamlessly of late. With software like RunInUAE you can just run such a legacy app from the workbench and have it pretty much transparently open in UAE.
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I don't quite know where I fit into that. I have a fairly modern PC (2 years old, nearly, but a decent enough spec), I use other OSes, but I still retain several classics, an A1 and I was hoping to get a PPC mac for MOS2 and contemplating this X1000 machine too.
Alas, the old job security took a kick lately and such plans are now on hold for the moment.
Well, I suppose if I were to try and "quantify" where one rates on the Amiga Religion scale, I'd have to say (for the sake of argument) that those who want PPC and think that Hyperion is going to save the world are probably 100% religious. I'd say that those who want PPC over x86 by asserting that PPC is somehow superior while ignoring the price performance ratio of alternatives are 100% religious.
Contrast that with someone like myself, I'd have to say I'm 10, maybe 20%, religious. I have my A1200. Haven't used it seriously in a long time but never had the heart to get rid of it. No modifications to it, use UAE more often than that and even then barely. Have AROS installed on a couple different boxes, etc...
So, I'd have to ask then, where do you think you fall in between those figures? You do sound like you got at least a little bit of pragmatism in ya, so I suspect you're somewhere in the middle.
Not that there's anything wrong with being religious, btw. For me the wrongness is being too far in one direction or the other. More importantly, the wrongness is in not seeing the reality of the situation and failing to adapt to it. (Such as giving us something that fails to grow the user base. Which is by far more important than a PPC machine with "customizable" chips that have, as yet, to prove their worth.)
But that's my two centavos.
Ed.
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I like PPC for the same reason I like most things: variation. I don't regard it as a "must-have". As long as it has the performance to run old apps "better" and new ones adequately I'm not really bothered if there are x86 processors that are far faster. I can, and do, use those just as happily with a different OS.
What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.
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Lots of pros and cons to viability of the X1000 but to get back to the interview and what it reveals to us.
Trevor said the mainboard manufacturer was a British company that had experience with ppc processors and also intimacy with Xmos. I believe that's enough info to find who the manufacturer is and thus also the processor.
Look at these links and see what you think.
Products http://www.varisys.co.uk/products.html
and News http://www.varisys.co.uk/news.html
The PA6T-1682M is the closest match to the specs quoted for the X1000 and so there could be a new variant of it and thus evaluation samples being used. Varisys does work for military and aerospace companies and so may have a guaranteed supply. The news item for March 18, 2009 provides the corroboration for extensive experience with Xmos.
It would only make sense that Varisys would want to keep this a secret until final product so as to not upset the "Apple"cart because they're using the PA6T-1682M on a competing (possibly?) platform. That would be somewhat ironic because Apple's early computers used MOS Technology processors.(That at some point was owned by Commodore) Crossed MOS = Xmos
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But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does. Only it is far more costly than either of those....
Here is a rough list of AMIGA apps that run in AOS4 directly without UAE.
http://www.blitterwolf.com/testing.html
+ with UAE + enough CPU power, x1000 should be the most compatible official Amiga there has ever been.
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What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.
Well, there is always ARM arch which seems to have a good long life left in it, unlike PPC. Vast majority of people do not care what the hardware is as long as they are getting a great deal on the old bang:buck ratio. That is why I think the X1000 has the potential of being a utter disaster sales wise, it violates the bang:buck ratio for anyone outside the OS4 community. If Trevor is not focus on selling outside of the OS4, that's fine, but the pool of people who have the cash for it gets very shallow very quickly unless there is some easy financing available, which I doubt.
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@dammy
PPC has plenty of life left it in, just not necessarily as a desktop processor.
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....
What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.
Here here!. Vive la difference.
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But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does. Only it is far more costly than either of those....
That wasn't the point I was making. 1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.
@Dammy Sorry but making a pesudo ipad out of OS4 and proprietry hardware for $500 is just a stupid business plan. Apple can afford to do it because of their reserve and the numbers they are assured of selling. $500 would be great for us. Unfortunately it would cost about twice as much just to manufacture the device. Out of business and in debt after the first run.
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That wasn't the point I was making. 1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.
It is if you don't have it :-/
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That wasn't the point I was making. 1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.
If it had a significant use that nothing could compare to it, you might be right. Problem is, it has zero niche uses other then running AOS4 on a single core. So not only does it not have any real practical use, the only reason for buying it is for a OS that is not SMP.
@Dammy Sorry but making a pesudo ipad out of OS4 and proprietry hardware for $500 is just a stupid business plan.
So your going with proprietary hardware that the target OS can't take fully advantage of the hardware and charge beyond a reasonable price for it is a smart business plan? And who said OS4 has to (now Hyperion has full say so) run on proprietary hardware?
Apple can afford to do it because of their reserve and the numbers they are assured of selling. $500 would be great for us. Unfortunately it would cost about twice as much just to manufacture the device. Out of business and in debt after the first run.
I never stipulated it had to be proprietary hardware, that's your end of this discussion. So exactly how much research did you go into OEM costs to produce a tablet for OS4? If Apple is selling it for around $600, it sure didn't cost that much to manufacture, they like nice profits as does the retail stores and whatever middlemen their are between Apple and the end user.
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I never stipulated it had to be proprietary hardware, that's your end of this discussion. So exactly how much research did you go into OEM costs to produce a tablet for OS4? If Apple is selling it for around $600, it sure didn't cost that much to manufacture, they like nice profits as does the retail stores and whatever middlemen their are between Apple and the end user.
Plus Apple provides a warranty. Since anyone buying OS4 hardware is likely unfamiliar with that term, I've provided a dictionary link. Definition #3 applies.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warranty
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£1500 is a huge amount for a niche system with dual processors but only one works...
You can pick a computer out of the trash for free and run aros. I wish them the very best but I'd be amazed if they sold 100 of these things.
Steven
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That wasn't the point I was making. 1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.
It is if you don't have it :-/
Which is precisely the point some of us are making: too much money, too little power, not justified for the current user base. Their first priority should be to grow that user base and this just won't do it.
I like PPC for the same reason I like most things: variation. I don't regard it as a "must-have". As long as it has the performance to run old apps "better" and new ones adequately I'm not really bothered if there are x86 processors that are far faster. I can, and do, use those just as happily with a different OS.
What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.
You know what, Karlos? Me too! :) Or in my case, I want competition. Real honest to goodness competition with Windows and Mac. Once again, that's not going to happen if we don't grow the userbase, and that won't happen if we don't give them reasonable priced hardware.
Now, to be clear, I don't care how that price is achieved, I've even stated elsewhere: "if it must be PPC, then XBox, Wii or PS3." This too, would get affordable hardware into a larger userbase than this X1000 ever could.
I lean towards x86 simply because of the price/performance ratio. Beyond that, I don't really care.
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Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.
Our constant is £1500 - Launch price in UK of A1000 and suggested launch price of X1000
Average UK house price in 1985 £31000
Average UK house price in 2010 £223000
Therefore an A1000 (£1500) was 4.8% of the average house value in 1985
Whereas an X1000 (£1500) will be 0.67% of the average house value in 2010
So an X1000 today is about 7.2x less expensive than an A1000 in 1985.
Clearly ignoring the technological gulf that the A1000 represented in 1985 ;)
1. Average price where? In the scottish highlands? Mode or median house price is much more useful than the mean average anyway.
2. Doubt it, at $1300 I don't remember the UK price being anything like £1500
Also you can't compare it like that, the A1000 cost 1/3 price of a top spec 512k Mac, and a lot less than an AT IBM PC with similar spec, hell a PC was easily the same OTT price as that Macintosh. The A1000 was better AND cheaper than either of those two anyway and that's the point, and just 18 months later you could get an A500 for half the price too.
So in context...what would you get for £1500 in PC hardware today on a like for like basis, a lot is the answer, certainly an i7 of the highest order with the best Nvidia mobo and the best graphics card and ludicrous amounts of memory. Do Apple even sell normal tower computers still or just that iMac?
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People don't compare the price of computers to houses, they compare price of computers to computers.... AND in this comparison all you can say about the X1000 is FAIL.
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People don't compare the price of computers to houses, they compare price of computers to computers.... AND in this comparison all you can say about the X1000 is FAIL.
It would be interesting if Dr. Schulz finishes the AROS port to EFIKA-MX now it's going into mass production (see http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2010/05/moving-to-mass-production.html ) in time for A1X1K's release date on which sells more. $2K officially sanctioned A1X1K with OS4 or one of the OEM (apparently there are several large OEMs) EFIKA-MX based smartbooks with (again assuming Dr. Schulz finishes it in time) AROS installed. If I buy one of the two, I know which one I would be buying, or atleast, could afford to buy.
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I never stipulated it had to be proprietary hardware, that's your end of this discussion. So exactly how much research did you go into OEM costs to produce a tablet for OS4? If Apple is selling it for around $600, it sure didn't cost that much to manufacture, they like nice profits as does the retail stores and whatever middlemen their are between Apple and the end user.
Don't disagree with what your saying dammy, if OS 4 was "ported" to x86/x64 then I'm sure somone would be able to put out a cheap pad/tab version to undercut Apples proprietry. Just look at the Wepad (WeTab now) complete with Flash.
It wasn't my end of the discussion, at the moment it's the cold reality of the situation. OS4 <> x86, and trying to make a pad from PPC is gonna cost a mint. No research here, just basing it on the costs of a std PPC Mobo.
PS: Better stop using that fruit world or people will get upset. And sorry if I came across rude with the "stupid business plan" line. I just re-read it and cringed.
@Karlos RE: "It is if you don't have it :-/ " Agree, for most it will be unjustifiable, but in reality so are 7 Amigas in the back room. I don't think 1500pounds is gouging, just the cold reality of the platform and it's lack of popularity. AROS is fantastic and works on an affordable platform;
But it isn't Amiga OS 4.
Gertsy
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I f someone smarter tham me would come up with a piece of software or modestly priced hardware mod that would run Amiga OS 4.x well(I suppose even 3.9x )on a Wii ,then I would gladly sacrifice a stock Wii in order to have a 700?MHz PPC machine.
$199 is much more attractive than $770 for a PPC unit sans AmigaOS;remember you still have to buy $150 AmigaOS4 in addition to price of SAM.
I had hopes for the Amiga Forever Wii but nothing new seen of it for many months.
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That's interesting, what is the cost of the Efika_MX smartbooks?
It would be interesting if Dr. Schulz finishes the AROS port to EFIKA-MX now it's going into mass production (see http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2010/05/moving-to-mass-production.html ) in time for A1X1K's release date on which sells more. $2K officially sanctioned A1X1K with OS4 or one of the OEM (apparently there are several large OEMs) EFIKA-MX based smartbooks with (again assuming Dr. Schulz finishes it in time) AROS installed. If I buy one of the two, I know which one I would be buying, or atleast, could afford to buy.
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We can best assess the business viability of the thing if we can answer two questions:
1) What does the Amiga OS do better than any other.
2) What does the new board do better than any other.
Both of these questions had obvious answers for the original Amiga at the time of its launch.
Answer these two questions and the best markets to apply the new box to should become apparent.
Personally, I believe the described equipment is already obsolete. Unless the programmable silicon is uber-cool question 2 will have no answer and the thing will die.
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Umm well for the internet generation, one thing you can do on OS4 is make sure when you reboot your machine is cleared of any crap malware/spyware/virus that may have got through. Compare this to Windows PCs where every second you are on the internet your OS is slowly killed at the mere whiff of a TCP/IP connection. Win7 is so broken (as in still hasn't fixed basic issues since XP) regarding this that I laugh my head off at so called experts who endorse Win7.
Going back to Wii + OS4...are you crazy? The Wii is a mildly breathed on Gamecube with some $150 rubbish woolly controllers and the CPU is pathetic, worse than SAM. It's a great time for non OS-specific fun technically with A/V codecs/Flash/Java. You don't need to actually own a Windows machine at all anymore, or blow your cash on those pathetic overpriced Apple jokes. If ever there was a time people wanted an alternative to Windows (and actually don't like Apple computers/OS) it is now. Rumours of IBM and OS/2 and Goolgle with their joke of an OS Chrome, which is a massive FAIL, show just how fractured the market will be. We need the equivalent of an high quality/equally price superior machine just like in the car world you don't need to have a Ford badge, you can spend the same cash and get a far superior car from Germany. Same with computers today. Nobody cares if there is a Microsoft logo on boot up, never have never will. They have it as they are trying to fix the shortcomings of the previous release of Microshit on their machine or they have no choice. Note to Apple, add a bloody second mouse button too.
All those stupid idiots at Amiga Inc had to do was ring up Sony and negotiate getting OS4 onto the PS3. Yellow Dog Linux is utter crap. So Simple. A no brainer. And they might even be here today, but they are idiots and the opportunity was lost probably for the last time to get Amiga back as a mass market machine. Hell they could have done a special white version of the PS3 with an Amiga logo for not much money at all later on...with a branded keyboard and mouse.
$300/400 for a massively powerful CPU/GPU with some exotic Blu-Ray decoding...could you really have asked for a better basis for a new Amiga in 2007? No you couldn't!
And CELL port of OS4 would be a lot quicker than x86 or x86-64bit.
Having said that X-1000 is not a mass market machine and therefore it will never be 'value for money' you have to accept that. Had AmigaONE been around in slightly bigger numbers I would have bought one of those at the start just to run OS4. It all went pear shaped when there was an OS completed but no hardware to run it on! Only the Amiga IP owners make that possible to paraphrase an old saying ;)