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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ElPolloDiabl on May 05, 2010, 05:44:33 AM
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I've been contemplating doing this course. It covers Java programming, C progamming and C++ programming. It's AU$7160 a year (deferable) and I can do the subjects online.
For anyone who's done a similar course: do you feel it was worthwhile?
I suppose it will open up job opportunities. What do you think?
edit: Here is the link to it:
https://www.open.edu.au/wps/portal/oua/what-study/qualification?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/migration/OUA2/What+to+study/Qualifications/Qualification_Data/RMI_CPT_DEG&WT.ti=Bachelor%20of%20Technology%20%28Computing%20Studies%29 (https://www.open.edu.au/wps/portal/oua/what-study/qualification?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/migration/OUA2/What+to+study/Qualifications/Qualification_Data/RMI_CPT_DEG&WT.ti=Bachelor%20of%20Technology%20%28Computing%20Studies%29)
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Depends on if you want to be a programmer. I am a Telecommunications Major, and I really dont have a use for programming computers.. just switches and routers
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I just had a flashback to the 80's. Do you remember those ads on the games boxes asking "Would you like to program for us? dial 555****."
Yeah sure, my favourite part of IT.
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Maybe you can port Amiga 3.1 to run on my intel imac :)
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Should I do Bachelor of Technology?
Only if he's up for it ;-)
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I've been contemplating doing this course. It covers Java programming, C progamming and C++ programming. It's AU$7160 a year (deferable) and I can do the subjects online.
For anyone who's done a similar course: do you feel it was worthwhile?
I suppose it will open up job opportunities. What do you think?
Can you provide a link to the site for this program? Is it a credentialed program that is recognized all around where you live? Is it recognized in many different countries as a Bachelor's Degree when you have completed it? And lastly, you said the cost of the course is AU$7160 per year, can I assume that it is a two year course and the total cost is AU$14320?
Edit: To answer your question about it possibly opening up job opportunities, I would say "yes". I know one Java programmer that is making a decent living and I believe that C and C++ are still used in many places and there are untold number of proprietary C and C++ programs that need maintaining and modifying to keep them current with company needs.
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Programming jobs depends more on skills than on degrees, so the question is what level you're at now. If you can't currently program, then a bachelor will get you the first step *but* beware that you'll need to do a *lot* of work to make sure you get the skills - most programs like these only gets you a foundation.... Also make sure the program covers the skills you'll need for the type of jobs you might be interested in - technology is a *very* wide field.
If you have been programming for a while, I'd be more careful - a degree does not necessarily mean a higher salary unless you want to go work for a bank for example (at my company I don't even know who of my developers have a degree - I don't care, I care about their skill level; though we do have a guy with a PhD in philosophy...); in that case you might be better off reading by yourself and just getting lots of practice and/or looking for an entry level position to get a foot in the door.
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My level... 68k Amiga: Can construct menus, windows and text.
BASIC: databases and 2D games.
C: none
Java: none
It is a credential as far as a job requiring Bachelor degree minimum. I assume they would shove you in support until you have a few years programming experience.
I signed up, I hope I enjoy it...
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Only if he's up for it ;-)
Laugh..? I didn't start..
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Only if he's up for it ;-)
LOL
in truth, if I had it to do all over again, I would have become a lawyer or doctor...... look around at other online classes. that seems like a lot of money for online....
just my 2 cents worth
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I've been contemplating doing this course. It covers Java programming, C progamming and C++ programming. It's AU$7160 a year (deferable) and I can do the subjects online.
For anyone who's done a similar course: do you feel it was worthwhile?
I suppose it will open up job opportunities. What do you think?
Do you really want to do programming for a living? Do you program for a hobby? My experience is that if you do it for a living the hobby will die out (eventually). There's only that much of coding you'll feel comfortable doing, and usually your work has priority.
Also coding has lost the "wow" factor ages ago already. It's the typical grunt work just like any other. Some fields tend to be quite volatile as well, adding uncertainly. Add this the common problem of immature trade unions and lack of organization in the IT field and you might end up looking for some other field. When shit hits the fan it's usually the new guy that goes. In order to get to do some really interesting and cool stuff you usually have to find some small startup or such, which again means that they can't pay you much and if (when) shit hits the fan you're the first let go.
I'm not saying this is the same everywhere, or that it would necessarily be a problem for you. Other relatively young fields have similar problems aswell.
Happy programming (work or for fun)!
PS. I'm not coding for a living.
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I thought I had replied to this already, maybe not. I wouldn't go to a 100% online university as I doubt a HR will pay too much attention to it as it's questionable creditability. If it was a online section of a real school, that would be different. Real school, I would go talk to the Placement Office and see what % of Seniors (in the major your asking about) are getting job offers prior to their graduation. Ask what the current group (again, your major) of soon to graduates have secured job offers. If they give you a song and dance, it's either the wrong major to get a job or wrong place to be getting a degree from.
What was a hot major to get a degree from two years ago maybe cold stone dead now. Average person will now have three different careers in their life time.
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The thing to do is: do the level 1 subjects (which are pretty simple) online, get good results and you've got a much better chance of getting into the high demand course. Luckily there is a uni only 10 mins (1 hour in peak traffic:o)) drive away from me. So I can apply there at the end of the year.
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It is a real Uni, the programme is actually offered through RMIT, the 10th best Uni in the country right after Macquarie. I presume the degree would be from RMIT not the Open University. It's also nice in that you aren't expected to be full time so you can take more than three years and nobody cares.
I say go for it, I work for a Uni and everyone one here says that RMIT is good in Computer Sciences. Are you in Victoria that you could visit the Uni and talk to some of the instructors? I really think that the Open University is one of the best things they could do. I assume you are eligible for Austudy or Youth Allowance? That should help ease the burden.
The IT industry today runs on paper, all sorts of degrees and muttly awards are available. Back in the old days you just started programming and became an IT person...
Go for it!
I thought I had replied to this already, maybe not. I wouldn't go to a 100% online university as I doubt a HR will pay too much attention to it as it's questionable creditability. If it was a online section of a real school, that would be different. Real school, I would go talk to the Placement Office and see what % of Seniors (in the major your asking about) are getting job offers prior to their graduation. Ask what the current group (again, your major) of soon to graduates have secured job offers. If they give you a song and dance, it's either the wrong major to get a job or wrong place to be getting a degree from.
What was a hot major to get a degree from two years ago maybe cold stone dead now. Average person will now have three different careers in their life time.
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If its not too late look into help from Centrelink. Im studying similar stuff at uni (3 years to begin with), but a little more game centric (c/c++,flash/actionscript, 3dsmax, modding unreal engne,ai programming, etc.) and normally the fees werent dissimilar to what you've mentioned, but with some government education assistances (available to a good portion of the population I'd imagine) I managed to get in for less than 10% of the "advertised" prices. Im in a different state to you (Vic.), so things may be a little different, but it's probably worth looking into. Now in regards to the studying itself if it's anything like what Im doing it get pretty heavy quickly, and only the people that really want to be there seem to stick around for more than maybe 3 months or so. Having said this though if you'll get skills and/or knowledge (plus paper qualifications are useful sometimes) that you'd like to be using in your life then go for it, life's too short not to at least have a crack at things you want :-)
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Well, it depends on what you're wanting to do.
As I see it, you really have to choose what you want your career to look like. You've got two choices.
1) IT Expert - Pick an IT field and become the best in it. Become the expert that is hired to sort out the messes everyone else shies away from. The benefit is great pay. The drawback is you'll likely be a hired gun who has to juggle multiple clients. A technology degree could help you here, though you'll need certifications in your chosen area, as well.
2) Applied IT - Pick a business sector and learn that. The general programmers, support, etc, are easy for companies to outsource. The person who can talk business to the businessmen and then translate those business needs to IT solutions is incredibly valuable, though. For this type of work, I'd avoid the technology degree, and pick up a Bachelor in a subject related to the field I'd like to do IT in. Then just fill in a quick certification or two just to prove I know the IT half, as well.
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It's the bloody agencies that control IT hiring that worry about the paper. If you can get around them you are better off. We don't use the agencies and of all the IT hiring committees I've been on we've been divided on paper certifications. I tend to look at experience, younger people at degrees and certificates. I've seen people with a pocket full of Microsoft or CompTIA A+ certificates who didn't have a clue about the real world or at least the real world inside a Uni...
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The thing to do is: do the level 1 subjects (which are pretty simple) online, get good results and you've got a much better chance of getting into the high demand course. Luckily there is a uni only 10 mins (1 hour in peak traffic:o)) drive away from me. So I can apply there at the end of the year.
@Fanscale
I did degree in software engineering at RMIT back in the 90s. I can say at the time, it was the best university for a computer science degree. (Monash students will beg to differ)
We graduated with good knowledge of how to properly program, computer theory and algorithms, UNIX operating system programming, Oracle programming. We also had 3D programming on Silicon Graphic Workstations, user interface and Java programming which were all quite new and ground-breaking for the time!
For the group of us that pulled our weight, we have all done well. Most of us are in senior management or senior technical/architectural roles at present.
One thing I did notice is that all of us held programming roles for the shortest time possible with the exception of one person. I used to code on the Amiga (68k and C) as a hobby which stopped not long after working as a programmer - Piru is spot on there.
The question you have to ask yourself is what role do you want at the end of the course? If you want programming/software engineering, then the course looks good.
If you want a role in infrastructure such as system administration (Windows/UNIX) or network engineering, you might want to go for a role that includes Microsoft/Cisco subjects.
I started off wanting a job as a software engineer and fell into infrastructure within 2 years of graduating.
Also, for a long time now, large companies outsource their development work to countries like India - this is especially true of the banks in AU.
Good luck with your studies!
Cheers,
Chris
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LOL
in truth, if I had it to do all over again, I would have become a lawyer or doctor...... look around at other online classes. that seems like a lot of money for online....
just my 2 cents worth
I can see why you'd say that because Engineering (including software development and hardware development), whilst given the title of a "professional" field, are not shown anywhere near the same respect that people in law or medical professions receive. This means that your job prospects, in terms of the money you can earn, are quite bleak in the Engineering field. Well paid positions in Engineering are few and far between.
In the medical profession, you graduate from University and then when you apply for a job they already expect you to have zero experience. This is because the medical profession has a very organised structure in place to deal with graduate doctors - they take them on straight out of University and they then follow an intense training program, lasting over a number of years, where they slowly gain the work experience they need. Along the way they're offered a very good salary (although they do work hard for it) and once they're finished they can qualify as a consultant, at which point they can be on a very good salary indeed.
In Engineering there is no such training programme. Once you graduate, you are cast out into the real world with no experience to show for yourself. Employers don't accept that you'll be inexperienced, they just want the right person for the job. So without the experience, you are doomed.
The only way to overcome this is to do personal projects yourself (or, if you're in software, write lots of programs). Then, at least when you go to interviews you can show them some polished designs that you've done yourself. These can be sold to the employers as "experience". If you turn up to an interview with nothing but a qualification and your University project to show them... forget it you won't be hired.
So that's why Engineering is a bad profession. You need to be pretty smart to get a good Engineering degree, but you won't enjoy the same respect afterwards that people in law or medical professions do. That's just the way it is.
I never chose Engineering, it chose me. Electronics was the only thing I ever enjoyed. But, if any child of mine ever asks me if they should also pursue Engineering as a profession... I'd tell them not to, unless it's something they can say they really ENJOY doing!
Apple Hammer
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Only if he's up for it ;-)
What if its a she?
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It doesn't look bad but it looks more vocational than the typical Computer Science or IT Bachelors that you can do.
I think mostly so long as you have your Bachelors in a relevant field it's pretty much irrelevant. I've been working in IT for 10 years based on a Certificate IV in IT only.
I think you're better off having your Bachelors though as it's one of those hurdles most agencies and employers put up. Which is why I'm planning to go to Uni next year. The difference for me I guess is after I finish my Bachelors I'll still have loads of real world experience to back it up.
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Only if he's up for it ;-)
:roflmao:
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But of course the vast majority of Doctors finish with an MBBS, become a GP and try to survive paying off education, the price of setting up a surgery and the ever declining (in terms of real value) Medicare payments. I know GPs who work six days a week, twelve hour days. A good IT job pays more and demands less than a GP position. But if you do postgraduate study and become a specialist, then it's a whole different game. Lawyers are pretty much the same with solicitors having a harder go than barristers.
I visit my sister in law in Castle Hill and the best houses seem to have a tax cab parked in front of them, so education isn't everything...
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I visit my sister in law in Castle Hill and the best houses seem to have a tax cab parked in front of them, so education isn't everything...
Nope, it most certainly isn't. But if you want to get into Engineering then these days education is quite significant because often your CV won't earn you an interview without the right boxes ticked and unless you get the interview you can't sell your experience.
Engineering isn't the greatest line of work to get into. Even when you get a decent job you often have to put up with clueless managers who know nothing about Engineering and make silly, infuriating decisions. Commodore is a great example of that. So, Engineering isn't the right trade to get into if money is your goal or if an easy life is your goal, but if you can honestly say that you ENJOY Engineering then... well enjoying your work is half the battle and it's not all about the money :)
Apple Hammer
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My level... 68k Amiga: Can construct menus, windows and text.
BASIC: databases and 2D games.
C: none
Java: none
It is a credential as far as a job requiring Bachelor degree minimum. I assume they would shove you in support until you have a few years programming experience.
I signed up, I hope I enjoy it...
As someone who has had CS courses at a number of different schools, but also does a lot of programming as a hobby: be prepared to "unlearn" a lot of things you have non-formally taught yourself. Be prepared to open your mind and adjust your expectations. And if you have any trouble, come to the forums here for help!
- t
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Getting a degree is nowhere near as important as getting valuable work experience from the sandwich year of a degree course IMO.
First thing I would have checked is what requirements employers look for academically speaking for whatever type of work you are looking to find at the end of it and then check that the university/course provider has a competent department to help in getting work experience/your foot in the door.
I took a transfer to a degree course AFTER completing a course 1 level below and paid dearly because the work experience positions had nothing to do with systems analysis as it was so late in the day to sign on midway into the degree course. A qualification is just a piece of paper to most employers these days with the world and his dog getting degrees in Europe for sure.
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Thanks everyone for your input.
Job support is very good I have heard. There is always plenty of work for programmers on a contract basis.
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Fanscale,
More education never hurts... and having a 4-year degree or higher will always be beneficial - especially if you want to move into management. Remember, it is unfortunate fact, but pure technical skills is not the only thing that gets you hired. Most companies now have you interview at least two people - your potential manager and a HR manager. You have to impress your potential manager with your technical competency and impress the HR manager with your "Business" competency.
The HR manager will judge you on the way you dress, your haircut, you mannerisms and how you "interview". If you have tatoos, cover them. This person will care if you have a degree or not. HR will care about your GPA and will call your references. So make sure your reference are people good on the phone! They will feel they need to really know you as a person to determine if you are a good hire. Of course, this can't be done - people date years, get married and all hell breaks loose - but HR people think 3 hours of talking with you and the references YOU provide is enough to determine if you are a good hire - so just treat the HR interview like a first date with a really hot person and you'll be fine!
Your supervisor is different - he/she just wants a capable developer who is willing to learn and continually learn new skills. Having a degree and/or certifications is usually enough for them cause your supervisor understands degrees are outdated the day you get them. Also, remember schools are ALWAYS behind cutting edge technologies so the best have learned long ago to continue educating themselves. Everyone who graduated and then got a job says the same thing in 6 months - "I learn more in six months than 4 years of school!".
Certifications are good to a point - Certs that ask you what keyboard shortcut to do something in an IDE - like a lot of MS certs - is just stupid - but really testing people on code writing capability via multiple choice is really not possible. So don't be surprise if you meet managers who don't care for Certs because they've hired people with them that really couldn't code - but knew how to open a wizard with a Ctrl-Alt shortcut!
If you go far enough to higher level certs that test with simulations and/or labs - then you will have a good cert that can get you a job - but the intro level certs are not enough by themselves.
Good Luck!
Hope this info helps...