Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: tone007 on April 18, 2010, 10:19:14 PM
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Not mine, definitely worth a look though: http://cgi.ebay.com/Commodore-Amiga-Development-System_W0QQitemZ300419107197
What do you think, authentic prototype or A1000 stuffed into an ugly case?
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Aaah, Mitch waz ere. Paws for thought.
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Possibly interesting. I haven't the slightest idea what it could be. Ancient Amiga development was done on Suns... wonder if it's related to that?
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One of the custom chips their is mass produced production run variety so...........
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Can someone identify the various chips and stuff from the pictures ?
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Can someone identify the various chips and stuff from the pictures ?
Can't say I can, but I could photograph the insides of my A1000 with some closeups of various chips if that helps?
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Is thought that this was some sort of un-finished project from the PAWS company that gave us the 1200 Laptop (the paw logo on the mobo is a clear hint).
Though quite what machine it really is is not known and we may not ever know that unless somebody who is crazy enough to buy it who also happens to know what he's / she's doing.
Could be some sort of clone?
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Can someone identify the various chips and stuff from the pictures ?
Is thought that this was some sort of un-finished project from the PAWS company that gave us the 1200 Laptop. Though quite what machine it really is is not known and we might not ever know.
Could be some sort of clone?
Ahhh that's why PAWS was ringing a bell, lol never mind old age and all that.
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Is thought that this was some sort of un-finished project from the PAWS company that gave us the 1200 Laptop (the paw logo on the mobo is a clear hint).
Though quite what machine it really is is not known and we may not ever know that unless somebody who is crazy enough to buy it who also happens to know what he's / she's doing.
Could be some sort of clone?
Thats why I was hoping someone could identify some of the chips and stuff on the board, but it might not be doable.
Heck, Id love to even see what it looks like when it boots up, if it does
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Well i very much doubt its a Commodore thats for sure.
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I vaguely remember seeing pictures of a black boxed Amiga touted as a development machine that looked much as this one does. If this is a dev box, the paw print could be that of Mitch the dog. After all, it was also in the A1000 case.
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I vaguely remember seeing pictures of a black boxed Amiga touted as a development machine that looked much as this one does. If this is a dev box, the paw print could be that of Mitch the dog. After all, it was also in the A1000 case.
I think it is the LORRAINE prototype:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/1199ron.jpg)
See here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fobligement.free.fr%2Farticles%2Florraine.php&sl=fr&tl=en&swap=1
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it looks like you're right.. This guy is very, very lucky indeed.
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I think it is the LORRAINE prototype:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/1199ron.jpg)
See here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fobligement.free.fr%2Farticles%2Florraine.php&sl=fr&tl=en&swap=1
It would seem it's just "partial" then, as all the custom chip breadboards are stading in the back of the older picture.
If it is, it's too bad that they are lost, because as the seller is stating, this was salvaged from a pile of old vcrs.
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I know Mitchy wasn't a Labrador but did she have ambitions of being the Andrex puppy, or is there another reason for there being a toilet roll on the board.
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It seems likely the sell accidentally threw away the "good stuff" and kept the wrong bit... Anybody want to let him know? :)
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It would seem it's just "partial" then, as all the custom chip breadboards are stading in the back of the older picture.
If it is, it's too bad that they are lost, because as the seller is stating, this was salvaged from a pile of old vcrs.
To furthur my previous post, I think the "VCRs", might actually have been the custom chip units!
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One of the custom chips their is mass produced production run variety so...........
Where do you see that in the picture? The only two MOS chips I can identify from the crappy pictures posted would seem to be the CIAs. And I think that would hold true, as I believe the CIAs were actually a stock MOS part, developed separate from Amiga.
It looks fairly probable as legit to me. Paw print would be Mitchy. (Jay Minor's dog -- He is also the paw print inside the early A1000 cases.)
The ROMs handwritten as 24.60. Amiga beta ROMs seem to start at 27.xx, and kickstart 1.0 was 30.xx. This fits, as well.
If it's fake, someone put some time and research into placing things properly.
EDIT: I also believe, as others do, that it's incomplete. Most of the custom chipset appears to be missing.
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If it is the Lorraine (even part of) proto...
But, it wouldn't be impossible for some cunning sod to cludge together a fake and make a tidy sum from some cleverly assembled junk parts.
The paw and bog-roll icons on the PCB are interesting...
If it is what it appears to be then, WOW! It belongs in a computer museum.
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See also what Arcticfox designer/developer Damon Slye has to say about what they used to make their game:
http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Damon%20Slye
"Dynamix' first huge contract with EA for a whopping total budget of $35K ! We had finally hit the big-time! (or so we thought) We released this, EA's first original title for the Amiga, in 1986. We developed on a pre-release Amiga packaged in a black steel box with a wooden keyboard."
The seller needs to post more details or better photos.
If someone asks one of the original amiga team members they surely would be able to tell if it is the Lorraine prototype or not. I would have thought one of them would keep it themselves.
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... We developed on a pre-release Amiga packaged in a black steel box with a wooden keyboard."
Interesting. So it could be a Lorraine proto, or they could have used the same black steel boxes for their development boxes...
So, it still "might" not be missing too much.
Would be interesting to find out... Not $1500 interesting, but still. ;-)
desiv
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Maybe there were a bunch of pre-release Frankenstein1000s sent around to software developers? Would make sense.
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Maybe there were a bunch of pre-release Frankenstein1000s sent around to software developers? Would make sense.
Yeah, that would make sense. Also, assuming it's not fake, the serial number D-115 would lend more to that idea too. If it was a prototype it might not make sense to have the serial # there.
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It's doubtful it is Lorraine (or a part of her) if the sticker on the side saying 'C= Amiga dev system' is ligit, since Lorraine was developed and made even before C= got hold of Amiga Corp. IIRC.
Better pictures are needed.
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I'd love to get a dump of those ROMs...
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Yeah, thats a bad pics.. can´t see the components..
The only intersting fact is the Mitchy footprint and the toilet paper drawing..
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Was there a triple A chipset in there?
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This does look like only a peice of a dev system. I don't see any thing in there that could fuction as a custom co-processor. It looks more like it functioned as the keyboard and I/O interface.
I also recall years ago that some one talked of displaying the Lorraine proto boards at some clubs or meetings. Reportedly non-functioning. Could it be that these peices were some how separted long ago taking different paths?
Any one esle recall mention of those co-processor cards?
Plaz
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Amiga prototypes had several names like Lorraine, Zorro and Amiga PC. Lorraine refers to the project name (1983) and the early prototype (first part of 1984).
This machine sold at eBay had been made in late 1984/early 1985 for development purpose. But it's possible that no third developer really used it.
So we could consider it as a real Amiga prototype, a late prototype, but not a Lorraine.
And it's of course labelled "Commodore" because it had been made after Commodore bought Amiga Inc.
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For developer unit, the custom chip breadboards probably would have been housed in black metal cases that might have looked like some old broken "VCRs" :(
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Yepp it seems that the good parts is missing, I would never buy it at the state it is for that kind of money, since the pictures are so low quality and the facts that he have had it for 8 years without trying to hook it up to a monitor to see if it works.
without better pictures on the chips etc and a test to hook it up to a monitor and a report/pic on what happens would make it more of a good buy, tho someone that for sure knows what is missing and/or have the missing part might buy it and if we are lucky we will see him/her who buys it posting here :)
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I reckon by the time Commodore was sending out dev units, they'd have some actual chips rather than breadboards. Breadboards are too flakey to ship out to developers.
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Well, I emailed Carl Sassenrath to see what he makes of it...
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I reckon by the time Commodore was sending out dev units, they'd have some actual chips rather than breadboards. Breadboards are too flakey to ship out to developers.
I have to agree. Seems like a lot of guys are thrown on the wrong track by the old pictures where a very similar looking dev box and some of the lorraine wire wrap sandwiches were in a group portrait.
Whoever ends up buying this, please make sure to read out the ROMs and let them be free. :-D
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I have to agree. Seems like a lot of guys are thrown on the wrong track by the old pictures where a very similar looking dev box and some of the lorraine wire wrap sandwiches were in a group portrait.
Whoever ends up buying this, please make sure to read out the ROMs and let them be free. :-D
And take some better pictures of it! :)
As i was saying somewhere else, this must be a "sibbling" of the Lorraine. But from the link i found http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/563890692JxMvHh It seems that a similar unit was attached to a Sage IV host system... Going through the pics is interesting in itself! Check the floppies if you browse through the whole album.
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Yeah, I don't think its lorraine at all. The one in that photo set doesn't mention Commodore, and has a serial number ending in -002. It seems that between 002 and 115, commodore came along :-)
You can also see a prototype paula (portia) chip in the -002 model (Init OK, Disk Good?, Audio Good?), so there were definately custom chips before -115 came along.
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So what does the toilet paper roll signify???
(http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!BrPQbWQ!2k~$(KGrHqEH-DEEv!Mu+TQTBLy1l6cYrw~~_12.JPG)
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New pictures of this LORRAINE.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/fcuyom_th.jpg) (http://i42.tinypic.com/fcuyom.jpg)
and
(http://i42.tinypic.com/14y9xs7_th.jpg) (http://i42.tinypic.com/14y9xs7.jpg)
Others are coming as soon as possible.
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in the top picture, the main chip with the yellow dot, below it can easily read Portia (upside down).
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So what does the toilet paper roll signify???
Isn't tape up or tape down a term?
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Well, its pretty clear to me that this is a genuine Amiga developer system, with custom chips (no breadboards).
It is *NOT* the Lorraine prototype at all. But still very cool.
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We need information from the horses mouth.
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Looks like there's a bidder...
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Dale Luck is the actual owner of the Lorraine prototype (he still has it). The one in ebay is an early developer kit.
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Dale Luck is the actual owner of the Lorraine prototype (he still has it). The one in ebay is an early developer kit.
Do you know if it's intact?
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@som99
It had all the breadboards, and panels. :)
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@som99
It had all the breadboards, and panels. :)
Thanks for answering, it's appriciated :D
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/14y9xs7_th.jpg) (http://i42.tinypic.com/14y9xs7.jpg)
8520 CIA -> 6526 (C=64)
Sometimes you can read something about the 6526 "CIAs" in very old early dev.-documents.
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Dale Luck is the actual owner of the Lorraine prototype (he still has it). The one in ebay is an early developer kit.
I can verify this claim. Dale has the Lorraine prototype. This item on Ebay is not THE Lorraine prototype for sure, but seems genuine.
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I can verify this claim. Dale has the Lorraine prototype. This item on Ebay is not THE Lorraine prototype for sure, but seems genuine.
This is a pre-release developer box, a so called "black box" Amiga.. I hope that is clear by now.
What I'd like to know is, does this require a SAGE machine as a companion to be usable or will it boot up from an Amiga formatted disk.
The kickstart EPROMs look like quite an early revision, so they might contain only a bootstrap that can load stuff over the serial port.
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I hope that is clear by now.
Yeah, but you know some people don't read all comments and one poster earlier was calling it a Lorraine, so I just wanted to make it crystal clear that it's not.
As for the need for a SAGE (IV?), my guess is as yours for the early versions of the dev. system at least. This one comes with a floppy drive so perhaps not? Who knows?
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Do you know if it's intact?
I misread your previous comment for "do you know this for a fact?" Tired. Sigh...
So to answer your comment, as far as I know all the parts are the there, but it's in non-working shape. :-( As you can see from the various photos, it is a nightmare of wire-wraps which easily disconnect and would pretty much force someone to reverse engineer it to reconnect them properly...
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Sometimes you can read something about the 6526 "CIAs" in very old early dev.-documents.
Check the comment for gb_cia in gfxbase.i of V40 includes release :)
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Interesting indeed.
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So who was the lucky winner?
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Not I. A bit high for my tastes.
Lucky dog, speak up! ;-) (and please take better photos)