Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ElPolloDiabl on April 16, 2010, 08:03:43 PM
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Let's stop bothering the X1000 people heat up this thread instead. No personal attacks. Make a case for or against your preferred platform.
I think BeOS had years to make an impact on PowerPC and got nowhere. It only picked up fans when it went x86. Amiga OS should do likewise.
Because most people (a majority) need an x86 system for work or study it's more convenient to use x86.
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Cost, performance, availability.
Even if you limited yourself to say the VIA Mini-itx form factor for driver support reasons, you're still going to be in a hell of a lot better shape then the market currently is.
And a 1.6Ghz Nano will monster just about any PPC going.
/thread.
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If there was an x86 based Amiga OS, I would port/develop applications for it. I am software developer by trade and it wasn't even until Apple went Intel that we started getting customers that owned Macs. They still need to run windows and a dual booting MacBook is a sweet thing.
Also, by going to x86 based Amiga, we could get a Java JVM for it and that would open the flood gates of applications and tools to use. Amiga OS working with a good implementation of Java would be a very desirable.
I agree I would at first limit to a subset motherboard and processor for initial driver support... but once its moved to x86, I think the sheer number of people wanting something new and original to work with could move the OS to a really influential install base.
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If there was an x86 based Amiga OS, I would port/develop applications for it. I am software developer by trade and it wasn't even until Apple went Intel that we started getting customers that owned Macs. They still need to run windows and a dual booting MacBook is a sweet thing.
Also, by going to x86 based Amiga, we could get a Java JVM for it and that would open the flood gates of applications and tools to use. Amiga OS working with a good implementation of Java would be a very desirable.
I agree I would at first limit to a subset motherboard and processor for initial driver support... but once its moved to x86, I think the sheer number of people wanting something new and original to work with could move the OS to a really influential install base.
Do all that stuff for AROS!!!
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Having purchased several copies of Amiga Forever (so that each machine has its own licensed copy),I kind of feel that I already have several x86-based classic Amigas!
Since the really unique thing about Amiga hardware was the ease of interfacing and using standard NTSC/PAL video out of the box,AND since those video standards have been retired by governments order' ,Amiga has little to lose by following at least the Apple path of using hardware that is 99% common commodity.
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Let's stop bothering the X1000 people heat up this thread instead. No personal attacks. Make a case for or against your preferred platform.
I think BeOS had years to make an impact on PowerPC and got nowhere. It only picked up fans when it went x86. Amiga OS should do likewise.
Because most people (a majority) need an x86 system for work or study it's more convenient to use x86.
X86_64 or ARM would work. AROS is already there and is in process of being ported to ARM. Problem is with AROS, it's old school and unlikely to see any modern features in a reasonable time period, if ever.
Basically, we need a new OS for the future that takes the best of the spirit of the Amiga that won't be a major pain in the rear end to use or maintain. That goes from tablet/smartphone to desktop/server with it doing a reasonable job.
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I think BeOS had years to make an impact on PowerPC and got nowhere. It only picked up fans when it went x86. Amiga OS should do likewise.
It has; it's called AROS.
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Since Aros is free and open source like Linux, it means we can make our own distributions of it specifically customised for certain applications or with its own unique look. At the moment, there's only Icaros, which is a pretty good all-in-one Aros setup packed with programs and games and emulators to use and it's so easy to install and use as an everyday OS, but still people seem to forget about it or not pay it much attention. Is it because of the name?
I wonder if we could make a new Aros distro called "Workbench 7" or "Batman OS" or something more attention grabbing, would more people download the live CD/DVD, reboot their PC and give it a go?
I sometimes think people just need to be reminded that Aros has come a long way and is at the stage where you can use it for nearly all your everyday needs. It has a fully CSS compatible web browser, plays just about any video file you can download (scaled to full screen too now), has MSN and IRC for chatting, a couple of really feature-packed Email clients, CD burning, graphics and music applications, file management, heaps of games and emulators...
And all of this is usable from the bootable CD/DVD! You just download the FREE ISO, burn it, reboot, and your PC is now running a modern AmigaOS written from scratch for x86 architecture. With a few clicks, you can begin installing it on a free partition and use it permanently. It will boot up faster than Windows, Linux or OSX.
How about installing it to a USB flash card? No problem! Then you can take your x86 Amiga OS setup with you anywhere you go. Plug it into the display laptops and netbooks at the shops, boot up into Aros, unplug and go to the next shop. Leave Amiga on everything.
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x86.
Hmmmm Errm No........... I rest my case. QED. Move along, nothing to see here.!
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I wonder if we could make a new Aros distro called "Workbench 7" or "Batman OS" or something more attention grabbing, would more people download the live CD/DVD, reboot their PC and give it a go?
I never really liked the name, AROS; always wished they would change it to something a little more interesting. In addition, I could really do without IcAROS, or iMica. These names are just unappealing. IcAROS reminds me too much of "Ich! AROS!" The Ares One, on the other hand, has a more appealing name.
Sorry, guys (AROS, IcAROS, iMica), not trying to lessen what you've done, because it is tremendous, but the names... Oi! :)
Ed.
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After watching what was happening with AROS for sometime now and after reading this thread I decided to give icaros ago, after working out what setting to choose to boot with to get the display to come up correctly I got to the desktop/workbench.
Everything looks good, I also liked the little red arrow in the corner, very nice touch. Downside is I could not get it to connect to the network none of the drivers on the live CD would work with my Broadcom chipset network card.
Gave up in the end so didn't even try to get sound working, will wait awhile longer I guess.
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It has; it's called AROS.
I know, but the tail hasn't caught on yet.
As to name, go from spanish friend to french friend, how about Ami OS? Rex OS, Mans best friend.
Some more: OS Revolution. OS Mk2. Good O'S (name of a dog food). Thanks OS...
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If some company were to make an x86 amiga os separate from AROS they would have to put in at least a couple years of dedicated effort just to get where AROS is now. Not only would they be reinventing the wheel, they would also be alienating those of us who have followed AROS from the beginning (or close to it)
They would be competing with a free product that is already quite stable and polished, which also has apps being developed for it. AROS has a maturity that has come from years of development and a very capable update framework that includes drivers, apps, and os functionality all organized through some very capable programmers.
No matter what the tail has caught on to, AROS is here, it's getting better all the time, and it and its programmers deserve some serious respect.
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Well now that Amiga Inc is dead, you could give AROS a more Amiga name, maybe Amigo or AmigOS. Or maybe (female) friend in Another language, Fili in Greek or Habib in Maltese.
Why not have a contest? Name AROS!
(http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2081856module10544627photo_1216528465macolanterns.jpg)
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@cammy
Good post I agree with what you say.
@thread
And about the name, well you can't please everybody, but "Ubuntu" "Kubuntu" that got to be the worst name you could put on an OS ever. :-)
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And all of this is usable from the bootable CD/DVD! You just download the FREE ISO, burn it, reboot, and your PC is now running a modern AmigaOS written from scratch for x86 architecture.
Except when it doesn't work. Which in my case is every time. I just tried it out last night.
Never mind. My machine doesn't seem to like Linux distros either, although I would have thought I have fairly standard hardware.
IF the new Commodore USA takes off, AND they are able to negotiate AROS OEM licensing, that would aid the AROS community immensely, with licensing income, increased exposure, as well as raise AROS's profile along-side a well known brand. Unfortunately it would seem that the AROS community is not prepared for OEM licensing as such, so hopefully this can get some focus.
With OEM hardware support for a stable hardware base, AROS could really shine. Add OEM licensing for classic Amiga ROMS via Amiga Forever licensing and you can run all classic Amiga software out of the box. Such a commercial distro for Commodore computers would be called "Commodore AROS". It wouldn't in any way disturb the existing AROS ecosystem, would add to the userbase, and a successful commercial entity would probably be able to contribute to bounties for functionality to aid the whole userbase regardless of what computer they are using.
It's not the Commodore of old of course, it can never be, but at least if they pay homage to the software legacy, it can't be a bad thing. Aside from the flagship model which is the Commodore Phoenix, Commodore will release a range of small all-in-one keyboard computers (Amigo), netbooks and tablets, that would be greatly aided by an efficient operating system like AROS. I have it on good authority that the amount of pre-orders for the Phoenix alone already dwarfs the existing AROS user base. The idea for an OEM Commodore specific distro has already been floated, and there will soon be a concerted effort to get the OEM licensing and hardware support happening. All parties with a stake or interest can expect to hear from me soon. Commodore USA is now serious about AROS and determined to make it happen real soon.
Disclaimer: I am Commodore's technical adviser. My opinion is purely my own.
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AROS is just the base package name. The idea is that the distributions can have whatever name the maintainer wants.
If you want "AmiOS" or "workBench 7", simply build and distribute one :))
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Downside is I could not get it to connect to the network none of the drivers on the live CD would work with my Broadcom chipset network card.
Gave up in the end so didn't even try to get sound working, will wait awhile longer I guess.
Why wait? Just pick the right hardware and you're done. You can get a compatible network and audio car for something like $ 10. The AROS HCL will help you: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_support
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IF the new Commodore USA takes off
I doubt they will:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/12/commodore-gaming-disavows-commodore-usa-and-its-decals
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My Aros install works on my desktop, but I'm running it in Virtual PC. Try running it on MS Virtual PC and see if you have any luck.
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How about installing it to a USB flash card? No problem! Then you can take your x86 Amiga OS setup with you anywhere you go. Plug it into the display laptops and netbooks at the shops, boot up into Aros, unplug and go to the next shop. Leave Amiga on everything.
Guerilla tactics...I like it :)
All you need to do is make a youtube video of AROS doing the following...
Running MSN/Live messenger and chatting (preferably with video chat)
Loading and updating someones Facebook page on the included browser.
Playing various music file formats like MP3/FLAC
Playing AVI (XVID/DIVX codecs) output to the usual 700mb per movie/350mb per 45minute TV show.
Downloading something via a Bittorrent client for P2P stuff.
Transferring a JPEG from a digital camera to the computer and then printing it.
(editing pics would be a nice bonus also)
And you know what, the above counts for 95% of PC/Laptop users needs today. Very few people do anything more than the above. That would really wake people up as to just how irrelevant buying an OS like Win7/OS X is in this day and age. If you can hammer home an advantage about reliability/speed/efficient use of CPU then even better.
(obviously if something above there is not possible then it's probably coming soon)
To the question at hand....if you mean a port of OS4 for x86 then that would also be nice yes. I do actually like OS4 but the hardware is either scarce/no longer produced or just not very fast in CPU terms compared to costs of various Intel CPUs.
THIS is what Amiga Inc should have focussed on, at the very least as a side project, and then taking it from their to offer a branded Amiga computer experience with this bespoke OS.
It never hurt Apple going from PPC to x86 and I don't think any users left Apple userdom in disgust over having Intel hardware.....had Commodore jumped from 680x0 to x86 I think it may have worked out a lot better for them instead of floundering over PPC stuff. Some people laughed or were horrified at the mere suggestion, but x86 CPU <> Windows & DOS and x86 <> no custom chips allowed on new Amigas, People didn't realise this at the time. and few people could see past their hate for Microsoft to realise the eventual good points of the other (ie x86 was king of the price/performance ratio due to economies of scale...and Commodore would have been buying a hell of a lot more CPUs than Apple in mid 90s had they remained alive long enough to make it happen).
A CPU is just a CPU....but it's a bit late for 'Amiga' as a bespoke computer, unless someone with the level of cash of say Google wanted to do something. Chrome OS is laughable....what a waste of money and customer loyalty that will be.
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I spent months making my Gentoo Linux behave like AmigaOS so I can have a decent OS on X86, and all this rant about AROS is temting me so badly to try it again...
So before I hit another wall (I tried it years ago) please tell me:
-Does AROS even boot on EFI-based machines? I've two X86 Mac Minis here that would be nice AROS machines.
-Does it support Nvidia 9400 graphics? Or would I have to use VESA modes for this one?
-Does it support Intel HDA sound? I believe it does, but I'm not sure.
regards
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I believe we should discuss AmigaOS x64, not x86, if we are going to discuss anything at all and seriously. And I understand that AROS supports x64.
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I believe we should discuss AmigaOS x64, not x86, if we are going to discuss anything at all and seriously. And I understand that AROS supports x64.
What makes AOS so special that it should be ported?
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I spent months making my Gentoo Linux behave like AmigaOS so I can have a decent OS on X86, and all this rant about AROS is temting me so badly to try it again...
So before I hit another wall (I tried it years ago) please tell me:
-Does AROS even boot on EFI-based machines? I've two X86 Mac Minis here that would be nice AROS machines.
-Does it support Nvidia 9400 graphics? Or would I have to use VESA modes for this one?
-Does it support Intel HDA sound? I believe it does, but I'm not sure.
regards
Yeah, the EFI boot issue is a problem with the Grub version we use to boot AROS... I've moaned about it in the past, as I lack the knowledge to fix it myself :(
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What makes AOS so special that it should be ported?
Ask he who started the thread. I am just following a theme, which is porting AmigaOS to x86. I believe that the better discussion is porting to x64. I could advocate AmigaOS or not AmigaOS.
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Ask he who started the thread. I am just following a theme, which is porting AmigaOS to x86. I believe that the better discussion is porting to x64. I could advocate AmigaOS or not AmigaOS.
x86 = x86-64
If it's ported there's no reason they can't can't share drivers and tools with AROS. It would be nice having the official version on x86-64 as a stamp of approval. Also you can brag to people that "Amiga is back" on the PC.
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Ask he who started the thread. I am just following a theme, which is porting AmigaOS to x86. I believe that the better discussion is porting to x64. I could advocate AmigaOS or not AmigaOS.
In a modern context, x86 means x64 and x86-64.
And I have to agree that this is a mute point now, AOS4 is what it is now. Those that have it, I'm sure are very happy let's leave them be. The rest of us have AROS, which already supports x86 (And yes, it has an x64/x86-64 build too) and PPC with various people looking into bringing the ARM and 68K ports up to speed...
IcAROS is a great distribution, almost anyone can use it. I thing everthing is good here :)
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Well, I should try it, where should I ask and donate to get it booting in EFI machines? :D
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Well, I should try it, where should I ask and donate to get it booting in EFI machines? :D
Just ask on aros-exec.org :)
If I wasn't so bogged down in iPhone code, I'd try and have a look myself!
Michal did say that the EFI actually provides all the services that AROS currently relies on GRUB to provide... So if might just be a case of building an AROS build that uses the EFI to load the exec.library etc...
-Edit- hmmm, did a bit if checking, and it looks like GRUB2 is in use by Ubuntu now... That might be a quicker and simpler way to go!
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I believe we should discuss AmigaOS x64, not x86, if we are going to discuss anything at all and seriously. And I understand that AROS supports x64.
x86, x64, whats the diff?
x64 is x86. x86 with extensions. I think it's suitability is relative to what do you want out of the xtra 32bits? 64bit opens multiple cans of worms, drivers being one of them.
Maybe they should put it on a GPU platform and blow other OSs out of the water for speed. Try something different/reveolutionary for a change and make non Amigans sit up and take notice. Imagine an Amiga OS and MB that could used multiple off the shelf GPUs
I wish I'd though of it.
Gertsy.
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x64 is x86. x86 with extensions.
That's not quite true. x86-64 is a newer architecture that retains most (not all) of x86 as a subset.
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That's not quite true. x86-64 is a newer architecture that retains most (not all) of x86 as a subset.
I like the name "IcAROS". But i like "Broadway" too : ) or AREOS a mix of ARES and AROS. Stay tuned....