Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ElPolloDiabl on March 20, 2010, 03:21:54 AM
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I have no doubt in the future everything will come with a wireless connection. As for moving to the 'cloud' I've really lost interest in it's potential. Onlive are going to charge $15 a month subsription just to play demos or watch trailers, you have to digitally purchase a game if you want to play it. Storage is dirt cheap and I find it more convenient to copy movies/music straight across to my mobile rather than fiddling around with uploads and downloads.
Google seems convinced the cloud is the future. Do you think Google is just pushing their business model?
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I think it is way over rated. I also just philosophically have a problem with someone handing me a computer thats dirt slow and then charging me to use their more powerful computer for processing or storage.
I want the powerful computer in my own hands, set to my own needs, not some castrated computer thats just a browser and then I have to pay monthly for storage/use of more power. No thank you.
I could be wrong we'll see, but I just don't see cloud computing working well for many people. I guess for a business or something that wants to
control useage/resources and share files it may be a more convienant way to do things, but I don't see many people (especially nerds) thinking its a good idea for their everyday computer use.
Google has invested incredibly heavy in this technology, and all google people talk this up as "The wave of the future". It will be interesting to see if their gamble pays off.
Personally, I don't see myself ever using a cloud computer or client, but then some of us already do without realizing it... Like gmail.
Steven
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Yup its overrated, very much like the web when it was in its infancy with companies jumping on it but not knowing what to do with it. I have been in dicussions with companies that MUST be moving to the cloud, and when asked why, the usual answer is "because its the next big thing"!!
I'm sure it'll find its place but its not a replacment for local applications and data, or remote servers and secure connections.
Having just been without the interweb at home for nearly a month I realised just how much I personally had come to rely on it for work and hobbies but also for simple things like googling phone numbers for local comapanies. My point been that until we have a 100% coverage wireless network covering the majority of the world then having all your data in the cloud is going to be problematic.
Gaz
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Yes the cloud, along with Microsoft and Apple, really is a piece of shit. But unfortunately in the future everything* WILL be done in the cloud.
Also, if everyone is basically using 'Dumb terminals' at home, this has got to push hardware prices up if you want a high spec PC at home instead.
What a pisser!!
*Office applications, Internet, Email & Games
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The cloud is convenient for somethings.
I think in the future what we will end up with is something that is more of a hybrid. We will all have always on super fast Internet connections (many of already do) and we will all have our own cloud.
We can access our own videos, pictures, music, Wall posts from wherever we are.
Opera Unite is already starting to show a little of this. But yeah, I think it will be more of a local storage but accessible from anywhere and connectible to other "clouds".
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The cloud is convenient for somethings.
I think in the future what we will end up with is something that is more of a hybrid. We will all have always on super fast Internet connections (many of already do) and we will all have our own cloud.
We can access our own videos, pictures, music, Wall posts from wherever we are.
Opera Unite is already starting to show a little of this. But yeah, I think it will be more of a local storage but accessible from anywhere and connectible to other "clouds".
The could concepts means a number of things:
Loss of control
Loss of privacy
Ownership/rights issues
Convenience
Accessibility
Increased retention of data (for most people)
Most of us have been in front of machines for a good long time. We see the trap being set, but we no longer have much pull in what shapes the future anymore. Most of the people participating these days don't know anything about what's going on in tech and could care less. By sheer numbers, they get to decide what environment we have to live with. When the door closes and they have to pay a monthly fee to use their computer and access their data, they won't even complain about it.
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What's the difference between thin client and cloud computing? Seems to me there are very weak differences.
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What's the difference between thin client and cloud computing? Seems to me there are very weak differences.
Cloud is at the mercy of someone elses servers and your internet connection.
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The cloud is a ********* stupid idea. Lets look at how computing worked, circa 1975:
everyone had a terminal. It had a green or amber screen, it went "beep" and you could watch the letters draw on the screen in real time. The actual computer was in the basement. Everything was at the mercy of this one computer, and if it went down, you were screwed.
So, now the personal computer is here, and internet. Everyone has a nicely powerful machine at home, they can do all their work, play games, etc lightning fast. They want to share something? Internet. Internet is awesome, if a server goes down somewhere in it, the rest is unaffected. It's impossible for it to go down because its completely decentralised.
So, for some reason, everyone wants to go back to mainframes+terminals, where nothing is really yours, the latency is horrible (goodbye, gaming), the computer can go down, and everyone is fucked, etc. Sure, there's colour screens. OTHER THAN THAT, IT IS THE SAME.
Anyone who seriously wants cloud computing should drown themselves. I mean, really.
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Yeah, it's like this newfangled web thing, highly over-rated, neither of them will amount to anything....
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The could concepts means a number of things:
Loss of control
Loss of privacy
Ownership/rights issues
Convenience
Accessibility
Increased retention of data (for most people)
Most of us have been in front of machines for a good long time. We see the trap being set, but we no longer have much pull in what shapes the future anymore. Most of the people participating these days don't know anything about what's going on in tech and could care less. By sheer numbers, they get to decide what environment we have to live with. When the door closes and they have to pay a monthly fee to use their computer and access their data, they won't even complain about it.
It's already playing out with cell phones. Ppl will happily transmit intimate photos, their GPS location, text their every waking thought, to get and use the latest feature.
"In an increasingly networked world, privacy and anonymity will be the most precious commodities."
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Yeah, but when Skynet becomes self-aware we will all be screwed.
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Yeah, it's like this newfangled web thing, highly over-rated, neither of them will amount to anything....
The cloud is literally the opposite of the internet, and is a move backwards.
Right now, we have a completely decentralised system, where every part plays an equal role. Because of this, it is indestructable, and uncontrolable, and largely a free for all. It's fast, easy, flexable, and efficient.
What we had in the 70s, was a system where everything was done on one machine, and piped out to the end users. This is incedibly slow and laggy, and prone to failure. It is easy to restrict, fragile, ineficient, and at there mercy of whoever was in charge.
Why on earth is the 70s model somehow considered a replacement for the tradition home computer+ internet? It makes no sense for the end user. In fact, it's pretty obvious this is being pushed as a method of controlling how people use computers. Wouldn't it be great, if the owner of the "cloud" you use, decides to check what everyone's got on there? can't prove that .mp3 is licenced? Fine, just buy it from the iTunes store else it won't play. Sorry, we "don't have a system to verify licencing from audio CDs, or other obsolite formats right now". Want to install peice of software n? Pay to rent it instead, we can't allow you to put anything "dirty" into the system like that.
Cloud computing is not a good thing. Luckily, it will fail.
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I agree with the general feeling that ppl. are too willing to give up individuality/privacy just so they can say they have the latest and greatest.
Are there that many people who don't stop and think? Sigh, I already know the answer...
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It's already playing out with cell phones. Ppl will happily transmit intimate photos, their GPS location, text their every waking thought, to get and use the latest feature.
"In an increasingly networked world, privacy and anonymity will be the most precious commodities."
And soon the iPad. Insert coin. Oh, you don't have the money? Well too bad, we'll give you 3 months to pay or everything you deposited on our server will be dumped into the bit bucket.
Folks pay an extra 5 bucks a month for the privilege to email themselves the grainy, lo rez pictures they snap on their managed devices, pay 4 dollars for a ring tone, etc.
Apple is probably the most evil computer company in existence right now. With the iPad they're trying to change the way folks use computing technology, they've said as much. A completely managed experience with a toll booth at every interface. People don't care about computers in general, they just want the content. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-15 years OS X machines will be high priced developer machines whose only purpose is to facilitate content generation by companies for consumer consumption. The digital walls are closing in, products made defective by design, it's on all fronts.
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I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-15 years OS X machines will be high priced developer machines whose only purpose is to facilitate content generation by companies for consumer consumption.
I would be very highly surprised if Apple still have their own operating system in 10 years, let alone 15.
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Hmmm, I'm not a huge fan of putting any personal content into the hands of another.
I find myself reminding my wife that things said in a public forum are available to just about anybody.
I'm amazed at the things that are said on "FaceBook". I think it is and excellent example of how the cloud works, and what impact it can have on an individual, group, and society as a whole.
I agree with several statements that have already been made.
"Give 'em a shinny new toy and they'll trade away any privacy without a further thought."
No facebook, twitter or any of the like for me.
Yes I do have a gmail account, but its mostly a spam collector, let the expert systems pick through that garbage. :D
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While I would admit that there is little to attract me to the idea, I already know of one internet based application that friends of mine are finding very useful.
My best man at my weeding is a licensed plumber. He uses Intuit's Quickbooks to help keep his accounts straight. Since he has an accountant, he uses the internet version of Quickbooks and no longer has to transfer files to his accountant. They both can log into a central site and the latest information is available to either of them.
They've been using this setup for about two year now, and it seems to have worked well. I can see where, if there was a need to share information with multiple people or computers/devices, an internet based application might be well suited.
Frankly, I still expect the bulk of my own computing to be based on my own hardware, but when I think of how much time I spend on the internet I have to ask, "aren't we already sort of doing this anyway?".
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Google seems convinced the cloud is the future. Do you think Google is just pushing their business model?
The cloud is a basically idiot idea. Pretending to serve you just because "your documents won't be on your PCs anymore, you can access them wherever you are and whenever you need them" is plain stupid, 'cos this wonderful thing just stops working when you loose your connection to the Internet. So the right plan is: make Internet always available, anywhere, anytime, and possibly free, and THEN move all your datas on the Internet. But beware: people is not dumb, they simply won't pay a monthly free just to keep their personal data, feelings and life on a remote server placed somewhere else.
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My best man at my weeding is a licensed plumber. He uses Intuit's Quickbooks to help keep his accounts straight. Since he has an accountant, he uses the internet version of Quickbooks and no longer has to transfer files to his accountant. They both can log into a central site and the latest information is available to either of them.
Your best man (and maybe his accountant) is a dream-come-true for the harvesters pushing cloud computing. My paranoid 2 cents.
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these big companies want to control everything. every scrap of data on your machine every program you use, everything. Microsoft with os and apps, valve with steam and game control updates etc. apple with content etc.
i think this is one of the reasons gaming on the pc has lost out to consoles. you cant get a game toss it in and play like a console and you cant install and play like before, you have to install and register, and update and update and update. they strangled the life out of the platform.
some people use computers for online stuff, facebook etc. and for them with a fast connection cloud is fine. even some apps like office and others work ok with a cloud computing setup.
i saw a show about startrek once that said it was unrealistic because noone uses centralized computing anymore but it looks like we might be moving back to that.
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I would be very highly surprised if Apple still have their own operating system in 10 years, let alone 15.
You do realise apple have done nothing but gained OS marketshare since 1998, right? Windows is leaking 1.5% a year currently. What do you have to base your rediculous prediction?
these big companies want to control everything. every scrap of data on your machine every program you use, everything.
Some of them.
Microsoft with os and apps,
Maybe, but not with the "cloud" model. Conflict of interests.
valve with steam and game control updates
You mean steam, the system where you buy a game, and own it for ever? (you lose a game CD it's gone for ever. delete a steam game? click install again) Where you can install on as many machines as you like, on any OS (soon), and just log in to play? Where updates are regulary relased to add content and features? That's not control, it's convenience.
etc. apple with content etc.
You mean like the DRM they fought the record compaines to have removed?
i think this is one of the reasons gaming on the pc has lost out to consoles. you cant get a game toss it in and play like a console and you cant install and play like before, you have to install and register, and update and update and update. they strangled the life out of the platform.
No, pc gaming hasn't lost. it always has, and always will be a higher priced niche.
"register"? So, a GFWL account (which is bad, GFWL is intrusive and sucks), and a steam account. you register twice, and that covers every single PC game released today. Some use one, some use the other. A few use both. Not hard.
"update and update and update."? Lol. What a weird complaint. Let's look at TF2, the most updated game I own. twice a month or so, a small patch is released that fixes explots and adds minor features, and takes literally 5 seconds to automatically download and install. It even happens while you play, and you exit the game to see a changelog window. Every three months, a "big" patch With new weapons, items, hats, maps, music, etc comes out. Maybe a ten minuite download and can also happen while playing. It's completely transparent to the user.
"they strangled the life out of the platform." Oh god, that hurt my head. Steam is an infinite improvement over going to a game shop, and using physical media. You can't lose a steam game or damage it. Plus it actually stops hacking shitheads from ruining mp.
some people use computers for online stuff, facebook etc. and for them with a fast connection cloud is fine. even some apps like office and others work ok with a cloud computing setup.
Nah. When google's "cloud" equivalent of wordpad runs badly on a 2ghz AMD whatever-it-was, it sucks.
i saw a show about startrek once that said it was unrealistic because noone uses centralized computing anymore but it looks like we might be moving back to that.
No, we won't. most will not buy anything that is "different".
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The cloud is a basically idiot idea. Pretending to serve you just because "your documents won't be on your PCs anymore, you can access them wherever you are and whenever you need them" is plain stupid, 'cos this wonderful thing just stops working when you loose your connection to the Internet. So the right plan is: make Internet always available, anywhere, anytime, and possibly free, and THEN move all your datas on the Internet. But beware: people is not dumb, they simply won't pay a monthly free just to keep their personal data, feelings and life on a remote server placed somewhere else.
OH, they'll pay all right. Just like they do for ring tones, sending pictures, text messages, 2ml ink carts, net flix, itunes, software subscriptions and all kinds of other retarded crap.
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You do realise apple have done nothing but gained OS marketshare since 1998, right? Windows is leaking 1.5% a year currently. What do you have to base your rediculous prediction?
Apple isn't interested in fostering an open and free computing environment. Everything they've done the past 8 years has been in the direction of a managed environment with toll booths all over the place. INSERT COIN
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Apple isn't interested in fostering an open and free computing environment. Everything they've done the past 8 years has been in the direction of a managed environment with toll booths all over the place. INSERT COIN
Over half of their operating system is open sourced. The commerical product itself, OSX, doesn't have any kind of licencing scheme or copy protection whatsoever. it's £25 and installs on commodity intel pcs if you use the right boot disc first.
Unless this is some kind of weird nonesensical dig at iTunes, where you PAY for a PRODUCT. Or the iPhone, where you can install anything you want that isn't iilegal or bypasses the OS in some way.
At any rate, your post neither makes a relevent point, or any logical sense at all.
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@hell labs
i would change my mind in a second about steam if i was the only one who complained about it and had problems. they have had network problems, they have been hacked etc.
google steam problems or check out wikopedia etc.
i can definitely see benefits in a good update system, however once again im not the only one seeing problems with it. publishers are using it as a crutch. the marketing guys set this rediculous release date so we will leave some bugs in and require an update right off the bat.
as for owning the game forever i dont think thats much of a deal i have playstation 1 games and xbox games that play flawlessly (and without updates)
afaik you still cant sell games youve bought on steam like this crappy racing game i bought
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Sorry.. What is Cloud ?
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Over half of their operating system is open sourced. The commerical product itself, OSX, doesn't have any kind of licencing scheme or copy protection whatsoever..
No copy protection, but there most definitely is licensing.
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.htm
2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time,and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software (excluding the Boot ROM code) in machine-readable form for backup purposes only; provided that the backup copy must include all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original.
Sure, it's easy to install it on ten machines, doesn't mean you're allowed to though.
and...
Microsoft with os and apps,
Maybe, but not with the "cloud" model. Conflict of interests.
Look up Windows Azure, hint, it's cloud computing by Microsoft, and apparently businesses are buying it.
At least check some facts before you post, otherwise you're typing all that garbage for nothing.
As for Cloud computing, it probably makes sense in certain limited capacities at this point, but it's definitely not for everyone (or most, even.)
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Over half of their operating system is open sourced.
No it's not. n\None of their APIs are opensource. All of the NExT underpinnings are closed source. All of their apps are close sourced. The BSD app layer sure as hell isn't half of the system.
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Your best man (and maybe his accountant) is a dream-come-true for the harvesters pushing cloud computing. My paranoid 2 cents.
Yeah, you're paranoid (but so are a lot of other people , so that hardly concerns me).
The point you're missing is that there are valid applications that when shared over the internet save time and simply real work. I wouldn't expect many of you to understand, as its not real likely that any of you have finances complicated enough to warrant hiring an accountant.
Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?
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btw pc game market has lost. it is almost totally stagnant. the console market has exploded in the last 5 years or so and the pc game market has lost ground. Get almost any game mag (i subscribe to game informer) and you will see at least 5 games for each console to every single pc game. advertising for pc games is almost nonexistant.
it always has been the higher priced niche but it was also always a much large niche. i think the problem started when graphics card makers wanted to release a new card every 6-8 months. noone wants that. console makers are shooting for a 7-10 year lifespan for their systems. that is much more in line with reality for most people. 2 grand every year for a new gaming pc or 400 for a console, not a tough call.
game publishers have also stepped away from mainstream computing. at least 50% of all pcs today regardless of all other things have integrated graphics chipset or older graphics card not a top of the line ati or nvidia card.
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Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?
i cant speak for anyone else but i am up on most of the new technologies that are out. i see the value of good efficient software and hardware, and i use computers everyday for study as i am a full time student with half my classes online. i use cloud computing system literally every day and i do see value in them for specific applications definitely not for everything though.
i dont think any of us is exclusively using any long dead computer system. i do use aros which is not long or dead. do you use amigas?
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I'm glad to see at least one reasonable post. And I do apologize for needling everybody to get to this point.
Yes, I too use other computers, but I have one system set up with AROS (and that Amiga like system is really beginning to impress me). I also have put together a Powermac system with the hope of running MorphOS on it when the next revision is released. As to a 'real' Amiga. I'm not about to pay the insane sums currently demanded for these to get back to running old software dead slow. AROS (with integrated UAE) or straight emulation is close enough for me.
And I don't use true Cloud computing apps to any extent, but I do see the validity of the concept for SOME uses.
And for now, Amiga and Amiga like systems may be a relatively dead issue, but they have to be the most interesting developments in retro computing.
I just got tired of everyone dumping on the cloud concept.
While a lot of the focus may just be companies looking for new ways to generate revenue, there is a legitimate place for this technology.
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What we had in the 70s, was a system where everything was done on one machine, and piped out to the end users. This is incedibly slow and laggy, and prone to failure. It is easy to restrict, fragile, ineficient, and at there mercy of whoever was in charge.
You're 19. You didn't have jack in the 70s. You weren't even a twinkle in your dads eye. You don't even know what you're talking about. I think YOU should drown yourself. Or at least stay off of Wikipedia.
Over half of their operating system is open sourced. The commerical product itself, OSX, doesn't have any kind of licencing scheme or copy protection whatsoever..
No, its not half open source. Its based on the MACH kernel, which is indeed open source as it's part of MINIX. Parts of BSD were mixed in to keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS and maintain BSD-friendliness. This is not over half of the OS.
Yes there are PARTS which are open source (the stuff that is BSD friendly, mostly) as that goes with the Unix territory, but saying over half the OS is open source is plain dense.
The rest of it is filled with Nextstep. Do you know what that is? I doubt it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense.
PS: That was for hijacking my thread on 1084s, AND for being numb.
ANYWAY
Cloud sounds a lot like a modern day, ubered up successor to PLATO or something. I think it will be a great setup for businesses, and people who travel often (business folk).
Businesses often lock out most of the computer to the user (employee) and most of the stuff that needs accesses is on some intranet anyway. They're basically dumbing a PC down into a terminal already in a lot of business/work places.
and people who travel A LOT can definitely benefit from having their stuff accessible from wherever they are, provided they have an internet connection.
It will be less expensive, easier to maintain, etc...
So, in that regard, I think its a neat idea, and might play out into something nice. It could give businesses a lot more flexibility. It might also crash and burn into a huge unsecured mess
However, the home user....especially the power users like those of us who constantly upgrade hardware, have tons of hard drives, RAID setups, home networks w/ file servers, etc. etc. etc. will not benefit from cloud. It will be a giant pain in the ass for people like that. We (power users) were fine without it, and wont need it. It is not practical for us, and probably wasn't designed with us in mind. Just like the intranets w/ PCs that have locked out features in the workplace weren't designed with us in mind either.
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Sorry.. What is Cloud ?
It mostly means productivity software is not installed on your computer. Instead you rent it from some place like Google an access it with an internet connection.
If you were a business your big database would not be in the building, it would hosted by another company.
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@Arkhan
Spank that ass.
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Yeah, you're paranoid (but so are a lot of other people , so that hardly concerns me).
The point you're missing is that there are valid applications that when shared over the internet save time and simply real work. I wouldn't expect many of you to understand, as its not real likely that any of you have finances complicated enough to warrant hiring an accountant.
Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?
Sorry Iggy, I wasn't trying to be personal.
The cloud will have some legitimate uses. I believe marketing, fashion, hyperbole, and bad intentions will pervert it into a bad direction for many ppl.
So, in addition to paranoia, I'm a bit jaded, too.
I suppose there could be such a thing as an invalid opinion. Not mine though, grin.
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Cloud computing from a business perspective makes sense in some cases.
Even from a home user there maybe applications for it (offsite backups, for instance).
That said, I would never, ever trust it, recently on slashdot there was a story about how games using the steam content management system going down - the result was a good many people suddenly couldn't access their own games as they wouldn't start if they can't phone home.
Now imagine that instead of it being a game, it's your documents, basic applications etc.
It also means that you're absolutely dependant on having a net connection present at all times. No deal for me given that I'm on a HSDPA connection, but even on a fixed line I'd be hesitent.
Having offsite backup is great, having multiple backups is better. But having the whole system hanging off of it? No thanks.
I have in the past used what might be considered a "cloud" application, or at least one tied to the cloud - a piece of software called Celtx, which I used for helping in the development of a comic (which was eventually scrapped as it happens) between myself and a couple of others. In this role it worked well. But the application itself was one that you installed on the local drive and could be used standalone as well as online. For colaborative works, the cloud makes a little more sense.
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It's one thing to trust a company to take care of your needs for a price, it's another to have no choice but to get by paying companies just to use your machine. Pay attention to this distinction. Cut a line in the sand. You own your machine and the shit thats on it, for now.
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It's one thing to trust a company to take care of your needs for a price, it's another to have no choice but to get by paying companies just to use your machine. Pay attention to this distinction. Cut a line in the sand. You own your machine and the shit thats on it, for now.
/thread
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Why would i pay to store my data when i can buy 1 TB for under $100, and dropping. What will it cost me, and how long will it take for me to upload and download this? why should I accept a performance hit when for $400 PC I can access this instantly from hard drive? why would i pay for apps when I can get for the same functions for free? And if i'm the type that needs to access my data, i'll buy a $300 netbook shove a 500 gig har drive and physically carry the damn thing with me and use my wireless broadband to upload and download.
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Yeah, but when Skynet becomes self-aware we will all be screwed.
Only if you can get Skynet to stop looking at all the pr0n.
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Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?
Amiga was once at the leading edge of computing, why wouldn't I want to know what true enthusiasts think of a new concept? Low spec and lean machines are a good candidate for cloud computing. It's one thing that you could progress, but is anyone going to do anything useful with it?
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You're 19. You didn't have jack in the 70s. You weren't even a twinkle in your dads eye. You don't even know what you're talking about. I think YOU should drown yourself. Or at least stay off of Wikipedia.
Do you have anything valid to say? Before the personal computer, what were people doing their computing on? Exactly. In fact, a system like that was still installed at my local library until about 2005. I used it a lot. It beeped when you pressed the enter key, and you could watch the cursor move as the screen redrew.
No, its not half open source. Its based on the MACH kernel, which is indeed open source as it's part of MINIX. Parts of BSD were mixed in to keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS and maintain BSD-friendliness. This is not over half of the OS.
Mach/bsd hybrid kernel, named xnu. Try to keep up. And why would using BSD "keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS"? Have you used The old mac os? It's the anti-unix.
Yes there are PARTS which are open source (the stuff that is BSD friendly, mostly) as that goes with the Unix territory, but saying over half the OS is open source is plain dense.
I can download darwin, the open source parts of OSX, put the disc in, and boot to a shell (I think it's bash, not used it in a while). The argument could be made that it's an entire open source operating system.
The rest of it is filled with Nextstep. Do you know what that is? I doubt it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense.
Given that I've got NS 3.3 running here in a virtual machine, admiring the total lack of software, I should hope so. It's funny how they developed doom on this, but it's not even complete.
You don't seem to aware that NeXTSTEP was also xnu kernal+bsd userland based. The biggest change between that and osx 10.0 was the display system.
PS: That was for hijacking my thread on 1084s, AND for being numb.
Cry more.
No copy protection, but there most definitely is licensing.
Sure, it's easy to install it on ten machines, doesn't mean you're allowed to though.
Not enforced.
Look up Windows Azure, hint, it's cloud computing by Microsoft, and apparently businesses are buying it.
At least check some facts before you post, otherwise you're typing all that garbage for nothing.
They're not pushing it. Microsoft right now are actually advertising windows, so I guess the reinforces the idea that they don't really care about it. The fact microsoft has to advertise is kind of weird though. Are they scared or something?
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Do you have anything valid to say? Before the personal computer, what were people doing their computing on? Exactly. In fact, a system like that was still installed at my local library until about 2005. I used it a lot. It beeped when you pressed the enter key, and you could watch the cursor move as the screen redrew.
I just think its hilarious when a 19 year old talks about what was going on in the 70s. I dont care if your library had one. So did mine. Its not nearly enough proof of how things worked in the 70s. Do you think all computer setups in the 70s beeped alot, and drew text to screen slowly? Is that all you think they did?
Get back to me when you know what it's like to not have a home computer, and you have to go into a lab, dial into a server (like a VAX), and work that way for hours to get things done. command line only. No windows.
Mach/bsd hybrid kernel, named xnu. Try to keep up.
Keep up with what? You just repeated what I said, while adding your idiotic, arrogant flavor to it. :roflmao:
And why would using BSD "keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS"? Have you used The old mac os? It's the anti-unix.
My bad, slip an X at the end of that Mac OS. OSX has been evolving for what, over a decade now?
Though I guess you could say longer, if you consider Nextstep.
I can download darwin, the open source parts of OSX, put the disc in, and boot to a shell (I think it's bash, not used it in a while). The argument could be made that it's an entire open source operating system.
..you THINK its bash? All of this wikipedia slinging, and you THINK thats what it is? Lol. If you want to argue that darwin is an entire OS, go on ahead. I'll be the guy in the back of the room doing this: :laughing:
Given that I've got NS 3.3 running here in a virtual machine, admiring the total lack of software, I should hope so. It's funny how they developed doom on this, but it's not even complete.
So what, you went on the google-machine and downloaded NS. Whoopeedoooo. Do you know what it is? How its put together? It closed source. It stops being LOLOPENSOURCE after the mach/bsd based part.
Just because two cars have the same engine, doesn't make them the same car.
Meaning, lets say you are a dodge charger and im a dodge dart. We both have 318's in us.
If you (and I stress the IF) become some engine expert with 318s and then walk up to my car, try to pop the hood and go WHAT, ITS THE SAME ENGINE, LET ME GET IN THERE AND DO STUFF.
I will slam the hood down on your face and go ITS CLOSED SOURCE, GO AWAY NOW. :afro:
You don't seem to aware that NeXTSTEP was also xnu kernal+bsd userland based. The biggest change between that and osx 10.0 was the display system.
You can stop trying to be different and "more informed" now and say mach kernel based like the rest of the world. If you think the biggest change was the display system, again, this is me: :laughing:. Why don't you leave comments like that for people who know stuff.
Cry more.
lrn2forum.
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I just think its hilarious when a 19 year old talks about what was going on in the 70s. I dont care if your library had one. So did mine. Its not nearly enough proof of how things worked in the 70s. Do you think all computer setups in the 70s beeped alot, and drew text to screen slowly? Is that all you think they did?
No, some of them printed text out on paper slowly instead.
Get back to me when you know what it's like to not have a home computer, and you have to go into a lab, dial into a server (like a VAX), and work that way for hours to get things done. command line only. No windows.
I pretty clearly have command line experiance, what with me already having mentioned using st.helens' council 1985 Amdahl (I checked, the entire town was run on it, not just our libraries). That was the only system outside of school I could use untill I got a PC in 2004. The school computers untill 2005 were also BBC Micro model Bs, when we were given hand-me-down dells with NT4. (The BBCs are currently in the tech's shed at home. I never got around to asking for one off him). So, if I was using a computer out of school, it was z/os for me. They had it set up with a menu for word processing, checking what books were in, and a third option for local goverment (council) use that needed a password. At any rate I first used a GUI in about 2003, if the playstation mouse counts.
..you THINK its bash? All of this wikipedia slinging, and you THINK thats what it is? Lol. If you want to argue that darwin is an entire OS, go on ahead. I'll be the guy in the back of the room doing this: :laughing:
I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?
So what, you went on the google-machine and downloaded NS. Whoopeedoooo. Do you know what it is? How its put together? It closed source. It stops being LOLOPENSOURCE after the mach/bsd based part.
No, I went to the ebay machine and bought a nextstep 3.3 386/68k install disc. Took a while to buff away the scratches.
Just because two cars have the same engine, doesn't make them the same car.
No, but it does make them easier to find parts on, and doesn't take as long to get used to working on the other.
Meaning, lets say you are a dodge charger and im a dodge dart. We both have 318's in us.
If you (and I stress the IF) become some engine expert with 318s and then walk up to my car, try to pop the hood and go WHAT, ITS THE SAME ENGINE, LET ME GET IN THERE AND DO STUFF.
So, were cars, not people. Then suddenly we become people who own cars? Not following you.
I will slam the hood down on your face and go ITS CLOSED SOURCE, GO AWAY NOW. :afro:
Drunken analogies: Bad idea.
You can stop trying to be different and "more informed" now and say mach kernel based like the rest of the world. If you think the biggest change was the display system, again, I am Mr.Hands.
.
The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.
Why don't you leave comments like that for people who know stuff.
Well I do, and you don't.
lrn2forum.
gb2gbs
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Why would i pay to store my data when i can buy 1 TB for under $100,
And what happens if for instance, you're flooded out, or your gear stolen?
Multiple backups in multiple locations are a good thing.
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No, some of them printed text out on paper slowly instead.
I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?
You know what they say about making assumptions.
The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.
I'm pretty certain he has stated that not once, but twice.
To me this just comes off as you playing a game of semantics to try to score points.
Well I do, and you don't.
Again, to everyone here reading this thread, it's clear this fella knows his stuff, that's not to say you don't.
Actually this whole thing just comes off like a clash of personalities.
I mean sure, its funny as hell watching you two rip on each other. But I don't think either one of you has enough of an advantage over the other to get anything other then a pyrrhic victory out of this.
gb2gbs
No U.
See, I can do memes as well!
(MODERATED: Image removed per user complaint.)
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I'd be more impressed if you knew what the "gbs" part was, and why it's significant.
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I pretty clearly have command line experiance, what with me already having mentioned using st.helens' c......BLAHBLAHBLAH...or local goverment (council) use that needed a password. At any rate I first used a GUI in about 2003, if the playstation mouse counts.
Youre 19. most of your early computer use experience is pretty useless and of no real consequence.
I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?
Oh, Mr. KnowItAll McUsedOldSystemsInHisYouthAndIsOfficiallyTheTerminalMasterBecauseOfIt cant remember something like BASH? I Just find that fact quoting people usually just wikipedia everything and start flinging facts around like it makes their credibility 100%.
No, I went to the ebay machine and bought a nextstep 3.3 386/68k install disc. Took a while to buff away the scratches.
Oh look at me I buffed a disc. I'm the sovereign lord of the computarz. :lol: Any more irrelevant bits of info that you think separate you from the pack!? LOOK OUT WORLD, HellLabs buffed out a CD-ROM! HES UNLEASHED THE TRUE POWER.
No, but it does make them easier to find parts on, and doesn't take as long to get used to working on the other.
So, were cars, not people. Then suddenly we become people who own cars? Not following you.
Drunken analogies: Bad idea.
It helps to read the entire analogy before responding, instead of breaking it into sections and commenting on them. again: LRN2FORUM. Let me dumb it down for you, sport: Just because 2 things use the same core and one is open sourced, doesn't mean they both are. The freedom of one doesnt always translate 1:1 to the other. OSX has plenty of non open source (>50%) stuff, which really makes it what it is. That is the root of the discussion. You claiming over half the OS is open sauce. Its not. Its very closed sauce. omfgbbq1337sauce to be exact.
The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.
You see that word BASED, that has been used a few times now? That implies they're not the same but are related. Again, thanks for the redundancy. It appears were all on the same page, yet you think youre a page ahead of us.
Well I do, and you don't.
Please. You'd be wise to not even bother going there. That kind of stupidity never ends well.
gb2gbs
funny, thats what I was sayin' when you started waving your tard-fu around in my monitor thread, and probably what people are saying about you in this thread about CLOUD . It wasn't an open invitation for your know it all penis waving
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Sorry boys for being off topic, but going back to this thing of cloud computing I just wanted to say that I believe it is a marketing buzzword for yuppies that want to sell some new technology trend, which is of course usefull, but overrated, much like the multimedia concept was in the 90s, much like web 2.0 was sometine ago much like the dot com crazyness.
And this technological marketing trends will keep coming and going from time to time, promising they will revolutionize everything, and then they will dissapear much like a pop song. Leaving us, in the best of cases, with something usefull, but not really groundbreaking.
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Cloud computing has its uses. I would not use another Company's hosting for business information but rather host the data on my own Company's servers accessible via a VPN.
I prefer to either have a physical product (CD/DVD) or a file on my local computer accessible at any time with or without an Internet connection; the option to download the product again is convenient, but I want the entire program locally without fees or the need for an Internet connection.
Regarding movies, the option like NetFlix is fine for movie rental, but if I want to own the entire movie, I'll buy a physical copy; there's no way I'm wasting my time or bandwidth waiting for a 8GB+ file to download when I can go to my local store to buy a professionally burned DVD/BlueRay.
Cloud computing is simply mainframe systems, thin clients, Citrix, and the likes of Outlook Web Access repackaged with Digital Distribution added to the mix. Accessibility is great for businesses as they get more revenue from monthly fees, but, as with any other product or service, buyer beware.
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To Hell Labs: Lay off the wikipedia I hate to agree because I was there for most of it, my first main frame when I was in seventh grade I ever touched was an IBM 360, got to use a VAX CLUSTER in college. I did my programming for that most of the time on a VT100 terminal in a college basement and at home using my Amiga 2000HD with VLT emulator...
After college I ended up doing work on projects for Disney CDROMs, on Macs and Windows PCs of the era. I had them all connected to a series of Windows NT 3.51 servers and the company bought a sparcstation and had about 25 Next Cubes (the old 68030 types) and about 10-15 next stations (68040s) and a few "white" box x86 NeXT Pizza box type machines with pure intel hardware.. I remember the company installing openstep and saying "YUCK" and deciding to depart for a completely windows environment at the time..
Since then I do work on Expression Studio, mainly Expression Blend and I do cloud apps as well using Windows Azure.. Microsoft doesn't really need to sell the cloud to anyone but developers because it's a developer technology. You as a consumer or business would use the cloud on a pc, and phone or even a tablet and not even know that you were doing so..
Is it overhyped ?? I don't think so.. Does it mean local storage won't be needed, EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL.. On my iphone one of my favorite apps is a wifi hard drive.. I just can use the drive in the device over my wifi connection..
Is Microsoft selling the cloud to developers? Sure do think they are..
http://www.azurebootcamp.com/
How many people use the cloud right now??
Ever use google docs?
Every use backupify to backup your social media accounts?
Ever use Microsoft office web apps (I do on my free 20 gig skydrive)..
http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?a=1318
Have I ever lost anything? No
Might I? maybe, but I like redundancy..
Remember the ipad and iphone are devices not full PCs not running full Mac OS..
This is the whole notion of charging for software as a service not having to license it or own it..
I am developing a Windows Phone 7 app in Silverlight right now that runs on Macs, full PCs with Windows, Linux boxes and Windows Phones (series 7) that uses the cloud and it makes thing much much easier.. I am also using OData (Open Data protocol)..
I think the cloud is a big part of our future, but like anything else it could be used in a bad way..
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Sorry boys for being off topic, but going back to this thing of cloud computing I just wanted to say that I believe it is a marketing buzzword for yuppies that want to sell some new technology trend, which is of course usefull, but overrated, much like the multimedia concept was in the 90s, much like web 2.0 was sometine ago much like the dot com crazyness.
And this technological marketing trends will keep coming and going from time to time, promising they will revolutionize everything, and then they will dissapear much like a pop song. Leaving us, in the best of cases, with something usefull, but not really groundbreaking.
this reminds me of someone who wouldn't shut up about Azure and silverlight (not you Donny!). Acting like it was THE MESSIAH of computing. Its neat, but we were OK without it, and will be fine after its hype has passed.
some people will benefit,and use it to its full, designed-for potential, but none of this stuff is going to be a widespread phenomenon
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Is the Cloud overrated?
I think not.
OK, there is little point in trying to apply the "pre cloud" applications and products into a cloud context. Isn't that what has been happening up until now? Not exactly ideal.
But there are new kinds of applications that is built for "the cloud" from the start, and then it suddenly makes more sense. Google Wave is a new tool with great potential for communication, collaboration, document authoring, etc. Very simple to use, yet extremely powerful, and its usefulness will only grow thanks to its third party API. Why struggle in keeping a local storage of MP3's, copy them between various devices, etc, when it's enough to have a play-list at Spotify? The same with movies, use Voddler!
So yes, with the new kind of applications that are coming now and in the future, "the cloud" will come natural and not something you as a consumer will even reflect upon.
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Youre 19. most of your early computer use experience is pretty useless and of no real consequence.
You're posting this on a forum where people play with old computers. Think for a second here. Is ECS curing cancer?
Oh, Mr. KnowItAll McUsedOldSystemsInHisYouthAndIsOfficiallyTheTerminalMasterBecauseOfIt cant remember something like BASH? I Just find that fact quoting people usually just wikipedia everything and start flinging facts around like it makes their credibility 100%.
What's your point? I've used bash before, a while ago. Not exactly bragging here, just a statement of facts.
Oh look at me I buffed a disc. I'm the sovereign lord of the computarz. :lol: Any more irrelevant bits of info that you think separate you from the pack!? LOOK OUT WORLD, HellLabs buffed out a CD-ROM! HES UNLEASHED THE TRUE POWER.
Okay, you don't have a point.
It helps to read the entire analogy before responding, instead of breaking it into sections and commenting on them.
Well, your analogy was completely broken. first, "we are cars", then we start opeing bonnets of cars we own? What the **** happened in your english class?
again: I'm sorry Jesus *pumps dick*
Let me dumb it down for you, sport: Just because 2 things use the same core and one is open sourced, doesn't mean they both are. The freedom of one doesnt always translate 1:1 to the other. OSX has plenty of non open source (>50%) stuff, which really makes it what it is. That is the root of the discussion. You claiming over half the OS is open sauce. Its not. Its very closed sauce. omfgbbq1337sauce to be exact.
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/2718/freedomy.jpg)
You see that word BASED, that has been used a few times now? That implies they're not the same but are related. Again, thanks for the redundancy. It appears were all on the same page, yet you think youre a page ahead of us.
Well use the right name then.
Please. You'd be wise to not even bother going there. That kind of stupidity never ends well.
If your handlers were smart, you'd have no keyboard.
funny, thats what I was sayin' when you started waving your tard-fu around in my monitor thread, and probably what people are saying about you in this thread about CLOUD . It wasn't an open invitation for your know it all penis waving
Haha, you're still butthurt about me asking a question about a monitor, in a thread about that monitor?.
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The point of the cloud is that nobody has just one computer any more. {ep[;e have a main laptop or desktop, a mobile phone, a tablet and/or netbook, perhaps another portable device, a work computer, plus there are just times that you need to use someone else's computer. Keeping all those in sync is difficult and not really necessary. Do I want all my work documents on my mobile phone? No. Do I want to be able to access certain ones at certain times? Absolutely. Do I know what those certain ones are? No, not really.
So here we are, the cloud has privacy implications but in the end it may be the only real solution for the growing presence of computers in our lives.
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We stand on the precipice of major change.
Cloud based applications will eventually decouple applications from any particular operating system and nullify OS lock-in. It is easy to debunk the utility of cloud based applications as we base it on a model that is only apparent today, failing to see it evolve out of necessity to address consumer concerns regarding privacy and ownership. As soon as one vendor solves this problem others will follow to remain competitive (and for the most part it has already been solved).
I believe the future of the cloud, for businesses and the consumer, is in hybrid applications, that are both native and available over the web, that store data locally as well as synchronise when on-line, with strong encryption and security and practically unlimited online storage(for a price).
Do not make the mistake of imagining that access and bandwidth in the future will be as limited as it is today. Bandwidth is increasing exponentially, and the amount of data points, at a minimum, around major cities will increase. You may lament you have limited access or speed right now, but this is unlikely to be the case in 10 years time. Today's cable and ADSL connections will feel like 56k baud modems popular in the 90s.
Google, AND MANY OTHERS, have developed and released technology that addresses most of your concerns. Many companies already aim to provide native compilation of apps and offline databases as well as browser based graphics acceleration. I've personally written apps using my own hybrid technology that run locally as well as on the web.
I believe app stores and vendor lock-in are a different matter entirely to cloud computing.
But let me take my view of the future much further. With web applications becoming increasingly ubiquitous, we will find many new Web based desktops taking advantage of native code compilation and graphics acceleration. These will relegate the OS to a layer that merely runs applications launched by URLs that in turn open browser based windows. To all intents and purposes web desktops/Window managers, customised to your own usage, will appear to perform as efficiently as regular desktops do today, on any system anywhere you are in the world. The era of the native desktop as a necessity or differentiating factor may end some time in this decade.
The major driver for Cloud computing is business and their desire to provide SaaS(Software As A Service) so they can pick up regular licensing fees and curb piracy. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this model which continues to keep the IT industry afloat, not to mention keep me and many, many developers in a job.
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Try free Cloud computing! (geared towards netbooks) http://jolicloud.com
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I have no private interest in cloud computing what so ever, because I want to run everything natively and I want all my data to be stored locally. I truly dislike the idea of being dependent an the internet for using my computer, and as a consequence, I'm staying away from this for as long as possible.
That said, it certainly has it's uses, but on a personal level I'm not interested.
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I believe the future of the cloud, for businesses and the consumer, is in hybrid applications, that are both native and available over the web, that store data locally as well as synchronise when on-line, with strong encryption and security and practically unlimited online storage(for a price).
There are examples of this already - Celtx (http://celtx.com/) is a good one that I've used personally with a reasonable amount of success.
I suspect some applications will remain always tied to local machines simply because it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to do otherwise.
Do not make the mistake of imagining that access and bandwidth in the future will be as limited as it is today. Bandwidth is increasing exponentially, and the amount of data points, at a minimum, around major cities will increase. You may lament you have limited access or speed right now, but this is unlikely to be the case in 10 years time. Today's cable and ADSL connections will feel like 56k baud modems popular in the 90s.
True enough, but at the same time, some applications simply don't make sense to have only as online.
But let me take my view of the future much further. With web applications becoming increasingly ubiquitous, we will find many new Web based desktops taking advantage of native code compilation and graphics acceleration. These will relegate the OS to a layer that merely runs applications launched by URLs that in turn open browser based windows. To all intents and purposes web desktops/Window managers, customised to your own usage, will appear to perform as efficiently as regular desktops do today, on any system anywhere you are in the world. The era of the native desktop as a necessity or differentiating factor may end some time in this decade.
This is where we disagree I think. Like I said earlier and agree with you - hybrid apps for some things make a whole lot of sense. The moment however you dump that to do online only is the moment you become absolutely dependant upon not only the companies not screwing you over, but that the connections are available at all times.
The moment you loose that immediacy of availability, it falls on it's backside as an option for most users. Sure, people will try it, some people might even like it. What's more likely though is you'll end up with a situation similar to that which was seen with the launch of Vista: People going en masse to get XP put on those machines.
The major driver for Cloud computing is business and their desire to provide SaaS(Software As A Service) so they can pick up regular licensing fees and curb piracy. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this model which continues to keep the IT industry afloat, not to mention keep me and many, many developers in a job.
I see the companies pushing for this certainly and for the reasons stated. I can also see a lot of other companies dismissing it out of hand due to data protection and privacy laws. Others will baulk at the prices and find non cloud smaller commercial or open source alternatives to pick up where MS leaves off. Having all apps on the cloud simply does not make sense from either a business or home user point of view.
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For business....giving users a PC and having them screw it up constantly is a real pain in the butt, always has been always will be because most users are thick twats. That's why Citrix was invented over a decade ago for large corporations (and any intelligent IT Service Manager would insist on this being used for all but the seriously experienced user...so 99%)
At home however it is nothing good, basically what happens when you upload a picture to photobucket and don't keep a copy but then Photobucket deletes it for whatever reason....imagine this on a terrabyte scale...ooof no thanks the internet nazis get enough control over us already with bills and laws impeaching on my civil rights left right and centre on the assumption I am a filthy pirating scumbag until I prove otherwise.
Nope...I will store what I want, where I want and as often as I want from wherever I locate it. That's what everyone wants and that's why TB drives are peanuts these days. Cloud computing is just an attempt to seize control from you about what you are allowed to store/keep......disguised (badly) as something else which is of little interest to most people today except as a novelty or to overcome the limitations of crappy 8gb netbooks that seem to be all the rage.
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For business....giving users a PC and having them screw it up constantly is a real pain in the butt, always has been always will be because most users are thick twats. That's why Citrix was invented over a decade ago for large corporations (and any intelligent IT Service Manager would insist on this being used for all but the seriously experienced user...so 99%)
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CITRIX!
That is what the library I work at uses. Its kind of pathetic though... They still ass it up using that. and then me, the lowly part time page/college student has to go and fix things all the time, lol.
This includes helping the IT repair man that shows up and doesn't know whats going on.
:roflmao:
cloud will work out great for people like that who need the dumbest-possible-terminal machine they can be sat in front of. It will give businesses more peace of mind that their workers aren't tarding up the machines and causing loss of productivity.
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CITRIX!
That is what the library I work at uses. Its kind of pathetic though... They still ass it up using that. and then me, the lowly part time page/college student has to go and fix things all the time, lol.
Ahh yes, Citrix. Oh how I would like to shake the developers of that particular piece of software by the balls...
I once worked in a call centre for a well known (some might say infamous) chain of PC and electrical stores. We all had dumb terminals.
If you were to take an A1200, crank up the colour depth to 256 colours, set the resolution to doublePAL highres with maximum overscan, you would get an idea of just how slow these things were. And this was before you actually tried to do anything with them. Oh and they were forever locking up.
Oh how I hated those systems.
cloud will work out great for people like that who need the dumbest-possible-terminal machine they can be sat in front of. It will give businesses more peace of mind that their workers aren't tarding up the machines and causing loss of productivity.
It just moves the problems rather then solves them. Ultimately you end up with a single point of failure that can take down your entire network and you and I both know that sooner rather then later, that'll happen. Most companies I've worked for that have played with dumb terminals have ended up dumping them and buying full blown desktops that are then locked down in every way possible. They just aren't effective.
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Everyone's computer is on the internet 24/7, everyone's phone and other device is on the internet 24/7. Look at the iPhone, can you figure out which apps are online and which are local? Nope. The key to the cloud is the ubiquity of the internet.
There are examples of this already -
The moment you loose that immediacy of availability, it falls on it's backside as an option for most users. Sure, people will try it, some people might even like it. What's more likely though is you'll end up with a situation similar to that which was seen with the launch of Vista: People going en masse to get XP put on those machines.
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It just moves the problems rather then solves them. Ultimately you end up with a single point of failure that can take down your entire network and you and I both know that sooner rather then later, that'll happen. Most companies I've worked for that have played with dumb terminals have ended up dumping them and buying full blown desktops that are then locked down in every way possible. They just aren't effective.
The one advantage we have today, though, over the old systems is that of the Cluster. If one server of say three goes does down, then it doesn't matter as the connections fail over to the remaining two. Naturally if there is only one server, then everything goes down with it. A smart System Designer would not build a cloud on a single server but on a cluster of at least two servers.
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The one advantage we have today, though, over the old systems is that of the Cluster. If one server of say three goes does down, then it doesn't matter as the connections fail over to the remaining two. Naturally if there is only one server, then everything goes down with it. A smart System Designer would not build a cloud on a single server but on a cluster of at least two servers.
I can only give you my own first hand experiences. The company that I worked for that ran these things had nothing but trouble with them. They were awful.
Every time I read about some company or other bringing terminals in, you can almost guarantee that within a year they'll go back to the more common PC/Server system. They are junk, even the new shiny expensive ones.
@persia, that's the point, not everyone's computers/phones etc are on all the time, nor are servers that host these things on all the time (see slashdot every time a game service goes down). The internet as a whole may well be ubiquitous. But individual services generally speaking aren't, when they go down, everyone relying on it goes down with them. As far as my own systems go, I have a very good idea what apps go online and which don't. As someone who uses a mobile connection I absolutely have to be aware as bandwidth through this medium is set on a monthly basis per payment (£15=3Gb or £25=7Gb). Having some application sucking down bandwidth very quickly gets noticed. As for phones, well not all of us are blessed with an iPhone. My Tocco Lite, whilst net capable (and actually fairly good at it) is very very rarely online.
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The problem with the Cloud is that it's constantly referred to as one cloud, whilst in reality, we're going to end up with an entire weather system.
Home computing is changing, and with the next generation consoles, more and more tasks handled by PC's will be moved to those platforms. Cloud computing will be used heavily here, especially when taking iPhones, and Android phones into account.
There are parts of this that I don't like, such as too much personal information being stored online, but in the end, people will be willing to risk personal integrity to gain access to 1337 games and easy-mode computing.
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The future is a computer hooked to the TV via HDMI, with a wireless keyboard and mouse. This will be eventually be replaced by a computer inside the TV....
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The future is a computer hooked to the TV via HDMI, with a wireless keyboard and mouse. This will be eventually be replaced by a computer inside the TV....
What do you mean "the future"? This has already been around for years.
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This has already been around for years.
Yeah, but I think he meant the actual transition from using a proper computer to using a gaming console for general purpose computing, and not the actual possibility.
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the future is nanite droplets that create a display right on your eyes and in your ears the same nanites detect that they are in your ear and produce perfect audio. as the lithium ion batteries die your body gets rid of them and new nanite drops replace them.
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I agree with the general feeling that ppl. are too willing to give up individuality/privacy just so they can say they have the latest and greatest.
Are there that many people who don't stop and think? Sigh, I already know the answer...
Your email is still on a server somewhere after you read it.
My Outlook Express folders have over 4,000 emails and one day it crashed. I wish I had my email backed up in cyberspace somewhere. I was paying for a program to recover email and it is a slow and hard recovery process.
I haven't flown anywhere since 9-11 but your email is probably more secure online than having to hand over your thumbdrives at the gate.
It is more convenient sometimes to find your files online than to have to remember to lug around a laptop, a hard drive, a thumbdrive, memory cards, etc.
There is probably an encryption solution to storing your stuff online.
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I think the cloud has a way to go before local capability and connectivity is suitable for business use at a utility level. But it's moving quickly. (must be the wind)
Amiga.org and other Web 2.0 technology, sa; social networking is effectively cloud. So in one sence we are bagging something on the very medium we think is over rated, smirk.
There is no need to have thin clients to connect to the cloud. That would be the worst case for Microsoft and Apple how would they sell there OS's and Systems+OSs?
MS realised in 2008 that moving to the browser would seriously stuff their business and made changes to ensure the desktop would go on. Why would you need a virtual desktop if all your systems run in the browser. Damn those Java boys. "ASP.Net all engines full reverse.!"
To me the issue is around sustainability. Unfortunately no matter how cool technology is the world can't sustain a new USB drive every year and a PC upgrade every 5 for 5 billion people.
In the words of Seinfield; "Something's gotta give!"
The cloud has issues a plenty. But it gives sustainability a chance and sounds like the right thing to do..
Gertsy