Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: haywirepc on February 23, 2010, 10:43:49 PM
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I have an amiga 1200 with 50mhz 68030 and 32 megs ram. Originally I wanted to install os3.9 but I hear 3.1 is better for my setup.
I got a compact flash card and adapter with os3.1 pre-installed. While it works, it looks a little more retro than I'd like, and stuck in 4 colors as far as icons and so on even if you turn up the colors. In 3.9 its easy to change icons but that apparently does not work in 3.1
How can I change the icons to more colorful ones and what add ons/upgrades would you suggest for os3.1?
Also, if anyone has any screenshots of os3.1 after being customized, I'd really like to see them. Obviously because of this systems limited resources I'd prefer speed and function over bloat and eye candy, but a bit more colors, nicer icons and such I'm all for that.
Also, is there something I need to install so networking/internet will work?
I have no way to transfer files yet but I have a pcmcia cf adapter card and a windows/pc printer port networking kit on the way.
A scandoubler from amiga maniac is also on the way, but might take a few weeks to arrive...
I'll be so happy when I can transfer files to the amiga and get her going..
Any help or advice on getting os3.1 pimped out would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Steven
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When I used OS3.1, I used to use NewIcons - there were many sets of icons available. However, the MagicWB icons are also nice and don't require hacks, just a 8-colour display set to the right colours.
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If you really try, and add lots of software packages, you may achieve similar functionality than 3.9 but much faster. You will need to do plenty of tweaking, but in the end it will work.
I have done it a couple of years ago, if you want i can make a long post with the stuff that will work nicely with your setup
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Start off from classicWB and you're already most of the way there. Actually All you'd really need to do is change the font.
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Yes, really ClassicWB Advance will be easier in every way.
Get it at http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/advsp.htm
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I don't have a cf card reader on my windows pc, so I'm not sure that using this classic wb is an option for me now...
I will check it out I have seen this site before, very nice...
Steven
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AmigaOS 3.9 is essentially just a prettier version of 3.1 with a couple of handy features added, so there is no reason not to upgrade. Its not like you need to upgrade any chips or anything.
3.9 is a lot more stable than a heavily-modified 3.1
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Yes I've heard its more stable, but I have also heard its much much slower with workbench screen displays and things like that, something about that part of the os being rewritten from assembly to c between 3.1 and 3.9?
I'm getting a usb cf card reader for pc, and a couple of extra compact flash cards. Then I can test both out and go with whatever works best for me I suppose...
Steven
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I have also heard its much much slower with workbench screen displays and things like that, something about that part of the os being rewritten from assembly to c between 3.1 and 3.9?
Can any techs confirm this?
Never heard it before but it sounds plausable.
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picture.datatype is probably the biggest offender, replace that with something else (like the picasso96 picture.datatype?) and you should be good.
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Jope, is there an AGA compatible picture.datatype in Picasso96? Do you know if it works for sure? 3.9 is just too blasted slow to use on a 030 because of the bloated picture.datatype that it comes with. If you have a lot of images in your Workbench, like all the buttons in YAM, all the icons in a dock/start bar, wallpapers, window patterns, other bitmap GUI elements, they all take twice as long to load (doubling my boot time) with 3.9 compared to 3.1. Can AGA 030 users simply install 3.9, and replace the picture.datatype with the one from Picasso96, and everything will work and load speedily again?
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can't they copy the 3.1 library back? Would something go bang?
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Yes I've heard its more stable, but I have also heard its much much slower with workbench screen displays and things like that, something about that part of the os being rewritten from assembly to c between 3.1 and 3.9?
Steven
Hiya Steven,
Don't listen to the people who tell you that you can't run OS3.9 well on an AGA 030 like yours. Why wouldn't you want to run the latest version of the classic OS on your machine?
Check out my AGA OS3.9 thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50414&highlight=create+fast) which shows what you can do with a humble 030 1200 :)
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Jope, is there an AGA compatible picture.datatype in Picasso96? Do you know if it works for sure? 3.9 is just too blasted slow to use on a 030 because of the bloated picture.datatype that it comes with....
ICONBEFAST made a BIG difference to the speed of my setup, have you tried that yet?
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IconBeFast is a good patch, but it only helps icons load faster. The speed problem with picture.datatype is obvious when you use applications that load in lots of bitmap images, like YAM for example, or dock/start bar programs that need to load several small bitmap images. This isn't something I made up, I've experimented with 3.1, 3.9 and a hybrid 3.1/3.9 system, and in the end the main culprit for the speed problem is picture.datatype. The more images a 3.9 system has to load, the slower it will look compared to a 3.1 system. If your system is pretty default, and you don't use VisualPrefs (with bitmaps), Birdie, MUI with patterns or modern applications that use datatypes to load skins and GUI elements, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. But when you use an A1200 as your main system every day, waiting twice as long for things to load when you know it's capable of loading them much faster with an older datatype can get annoying. It's the reason I switched back to 3.1 from 3.9, 3.1 was just much snappier for the kind of usage I wanted to get from my Amiga.
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I guess I'll add, if it's possible to install 3.9 and use a faster picture.datatype, then 3.9 would definitely be worth using on a 030. So if the one in Picasso96 is AGA compatible and works with palette-mapped screens, and is as fast as the 3.1 picture.datatype then it'd be the perfect solution.
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Novacoder,
I've seen your screenshots before, very nice.
I think I may have to stick with patched up os3.1 because I have no os3.9 cdrom, or way to install it to the 1200 even if I had it. I have amiga forever and the 3.1 disk images.
Right now I have no way to transfer files to the 1200 either, I got 3.1 on a cf card preinstalled.
I have a windows to amiga networking kit on the way which I got from a user on amibay. That should help alot.
If someone wants to sell me a 4 gig cf card with os3.9 pre-installed, I'm very interested. Amigakit has only 100 gig 2.5 inch ide drives pre-installed with os3.9 and I think 100 gigs is a bit much for classic amiga.
I may go that route if I don't find another solution soon.
This is an interesting thread. Sounds like 3.9 could be just as speedy as 3.1 if I replaced one component....?
Sounds great to me.
Steven
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I have tested the picasso96 picture.datatype, it has some problems that show up when tweaking workbench backdrops with its prefs.
I find ReAction slows down GUI generation on programs compared to standart boopsi components. Too see this, just click of CacheCDFS in prefs and wait a while it draws its interface, and then compare it to its counterpart in the idefix97 package and you will notice a big difference in low end systems.
By the way, workbench.library is another 3.9 performance sucker!
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I haven't had my old A1200 for a while now, but I ended up ditching 3.9 because of performance problems. It had a DKB '030 Cobra 33MHz IIRC with 32Mb of RAM. I ended up using 3.5 with better results after a very few tweaks.
That system worked very nicely. 4.3Gb Toshiba 2.5" hard drive, and a Squirrel SCSI w/Sony CD Writer (4/8/32). With a 1942 monitor.
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Novacoder,
I've seen your screenshots before, very nice.
I think I may have to stick with patched up os3.1 because I have no os3.9 cdrom, or way to install it to the 1200 even if I had it. I have amiga forever and the 3.1 disk images. I may go that route if I don't find another solution soon.
This is an interesting thread. Sounds like 3.9 could be just as speedy as 3.1 if I replaced one component....?
Sounds great to me.
Steven
Hiya,
I used WinUAE with a CF reader to setup all of my OS3.9 installs. It's very easy, you can just mount your Amiga's HD (the CF card) as the HD under WinUAE and then install 3.9 (using the PC's CDROM drive). Stick your installed CF back in your Amiga and you're done :)
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Hiya,
I used WinUAE with a CF reader to setup all of my OS3.9 installs. It's very easy, you can just mount your Amiga's HD (the CF card) as the HD under WinUAE and then install 3.9 (using the PC's CDROM drive). Stick your installed CF back in your Amiga and you're done :)
yep thats the way to do it if you have no cdrom for your A1200
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This is all very interesting. I have run OS3.9 on my A500+ with a 50MHz Derringer 030 and 32MB RAM. I used an old SCSI hard drive with a GVP A500+ interface. I never really noticed much of a performance issue. hrmmmmm....
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In the end, 3.9 is better than 3.1, you just have to remove the crap that makes it slower on low end systems. On high spec 68k system it runs like a charm, way better than 3.1
I would rather say that a good experience on it starts with a 030 at 40mhz and at least 16MB fast!
AmigaOS3.9 low spec tip:
Amidock is a really cool app, but if you are low on spec, get rid of it! You will save ram and your Amiga will boot faster.
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Okay it seems the solution would be: Use 3.9, but don't actually use any programs with it, because then you start to notice how slow it is. Just boot it up and look at it, maybe play an MP3 to impress yourself, load a WHDLoad game, and then switch it off and use your PC for everything else.
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I don't have an os3.9 cdrom, just amiga forever.
Can I format a cf flash card then just copy the files in the amiga forever
system and work dirs over to the cf card? Otherwise I'm stuck with 3.1 I suppose.
I really like and am very used to the amiga forever 3.x setup. That would work nicely for me if I can somehow copy it over to the 1200.
In the next few weeks, I'll try to get both 3.1 and 3.9 going on this 1200
and then I guess I can decide whats best for my needs. I'm waiting on some parts and things that will help alot. Can't wait to get the scandoubler stuff, my old 1084 looks like yeech.
Its like torture waiting for these much needed parts and stuff to arrive...
Steven
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How to make 3.1 look like 3.9:
http://lilliput.host-cafe.com/TechDetails3.htm
@Cammy
The solution is to use 3.9 and strip some pieces of it so that it looks like 3.1, but upgraded and bugfixed in many areas! :)
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Setpatch should be 43.7 (by Gateway) :)
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Gulliver, which parts should be stripped to make it faster? Picture.datatype and Workbench.datatype? Are you confirming that the Picasso96 picture.datatype is a suitable replacement?
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Yes, it is a replacement that works, but it is buggier, as i said before. The other drawback is that it eats more memory and that the dithering method leaves a lot to be desired.
I believe that despite people blame picture.datatype in 3.9. It should be left there. The problem with picture.datatype in 3.9 is that it is compiled with Storm C, which does not produce optimized code eficiently, and that it is also a FAT binary, meaning it runs both on 68k and PPC.
I would change from 3.9 to make it faster:
Retire AmiDock from WBStartup
Of course, I would install MUI, as it draws programs GUIs faster than ReAction
Retire Benchtrash from WBStartup or if you really use it, replace it with Benchtrash 1.50
Retire DefIcons from WBStartup, it is one of the resource pigs
Remove all the .info files from /Prefs/ENV-Archive/Sys/ that you can
Replace RAWBInfo with Wbinfo 2.5
Replace the GIF and JPG datatypes for the akXXX series of datatypes, they are faster.
Replace Mounter with SCSIMounter 2.03
Replace CacheCDFS in prefs with the one that comes with Idefix97
Replace HDToolbox with HDInst 6.9
Replace Unarc with MUIUnarc
Replace Genesis TCP-IP with AmiTCP
Replace AWeb with IBrowse
Replace PlayCD with the Idefix97 counterpart
Remove Vinced or if you really use it, replace it with KingCon 1.8
Use env-handler, it will save precious memory
Remove AHI if you are just using Paula for sound
If possible avoid the usage of LoadModule and the AmigaOS ROM Update file by burning your own 3.9 rom. Use Remus and Romsplit for that and contact Nathan at http://www.amigamaniac.com to manufacture them
And then i would apply all this optimizations: http://lilliput.host-cafe.com/SpeednOp.htm
I know you will certainly get a faster, less memory and cpu hungry Amigaos 3.9 install this way!
PS: You can also remove all the files you wont use from /Locale, foreign languages.
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Okay it seems the solution would be: Use 3.9, but don't actually use any programs with it, because then you start to notice how slow it is. Just boot it up and look at it, maybe play an MP3 to impress yourself, load a WHDLoad game, and then switch it off and use your PC for everything else.
Isn't that what anyone uses an amiga for now anyway?:confused:
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Isn't that what anyone uses an amiga for now anyway?:confused:
Works for me ;)
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I had "fun" patching my Amiga systems today. Spent nearly half the day upgrading all sorts of 68k resident files to be 020+ optimized. On a dead serious note, my A2500 and A3000 (especially) seem to really fly now. Both of these systems are more responsive (button clicks to applications opening and general WB stuff I am talking) than just about any other computer I've ever used.
Only thing I really miss from my OS3.1 A3000 system compared to my OS3.9 A2500 is the fact that the latter knows what to do with certain files natively. Lemme 'splain... I guess I am aware of the GUIUnarc program (although I've never used it) for 3.1... be nice if, when you double-click on an archived file, that a GUI would pop up like it does with 3.9 giving you options. Other thing I really miss is the smooth scrolling of files within a window using the vertical slider (I plopped what I thought were the appropriate Gadgets into Sys:Classes/Gadgets to no avail) and how Icons are drawn in OS3.9 (WHDLoad icons specifically). They're pretty and colorful - totally opposite in 3.1. Oh and double-clicking on a .txt file, a .jpg/.bmp, etc., for the "basics", one should never bring up a frickin' CLI requester that forces the user to edit and point directly to a program for further opening/examination. All that shit should just "work" and be viewable when I double-click on it. lol Yes, I think I'm totally spoiled by now with using a Mac all these years. :lol:
I think I could be totally happy with an 030 system and 3.1 if a few of these issues could be tweaked. Not too far off really. I don't mind going up into the requester, backspacing before a compressed file and typing in lha e... lol But a lot of time is still wasted futzing around when the OS should know what to do with a certain file extension.
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I had "fun" patching my Amiga systems today. Spent nearly half the day upgrading all sorts of 68k resident files to be 020+ optimized. On a dead serious note, my A2500 and A3000 (especially) seem to really fly now. Both of these systems are more responsive (button clicks to applications opening and general WB stuff I am talking) than just about any other computer I've ever used.
Only thing I really miss from my OS3.1 A3000 system compared to my OS3.9 A2500 is the fact that the latter knows what to do with certain files natively. Lemme 'splain... I guess I am aware of the GUIUnarc program (although I've never used it) for 3.1... be nice if, when you double-click on an archived file, that a GUI would pop up like it does with 3.9 giving you options. Other thing I really miss is the smooth scrolling of files within a window using the vertical slider (I plopped what I thought were the appropriate Gadgets into Sys:Classes/Gadgets to no avail) and how Icons are drawn in OS3.9 (WHDLoad icons specifically). They're pretty and colorful - totally opposite in 3.1. Oh and double-clicking on a .txt file, a .jpg/.bmp, etc., Amigaguide should never bring up a frickin' CLI text time requester. All that shit should just "work" and be viewable when I double-click on it. lol Yes, I think I'm totally spoiled by now with using a Mac all these years. :lol:
I think I could be totally happy with an 030 system and 3.1 if a few of these issues could be tweaked. Not too far off really. I don't mind going up into the requester, backspacing before a compressed file and typing in lha e... lol
For archive extraction, I use Arcextract. Its icon sits on the desktop, drop and drop your archive into it and up pops a requester asking you where to extract.
Not sure how i did it but you can get jpg, jpegs, gifs to open with viewtek by double clicking on them, and i used muchmore for the text file. viewing. I used juno(spelling) to edit text. Man I've forgotten so much.
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Man I've forgotten so much.
You said it! Me too man, but it is fun going back and tweaking these beasts to get 'em to do what you want 'em to do. Thanks for the tidbits. I'll have to do some more investigating. I've definitely forgotten as much, if not more as I once knew. Lots of variables why that is, but let's just say as the more time goes on - with the internet and "computing" where it is now, I'm really digging the simplicity and the 'getting back to basics' (hardly) computing experience that one receives playing around with the Amiga again - after all these years. The resources are out there to keep these things viable or damn near it. May as well use 'em and put them to work. If it wasn't for the shite coding going on in a lot of today's websites (programming techniques laden with features and advertising I could care less about), I'd be just fine computing on a REAL computer such as the Miggy's instead of being forced to have a WinTel box or Apple product :)
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Recognizing an icon by its type? Did you ever listened about MCP? ;)
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I believe that despite people blame picture.datatype in 3.9. It should be left there.
For what it's worth, I use picture.datatype 42 (http://aminet.net/package/util/dtype/PictDT42) without any troubles on OS3.9.
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Replace RAWBInfo with Wbinfo 2.5
Hm, I only found 2.9, but there are locale for a version 3 it seems.
Anyways, too bad it doesnt support drag&drop for changing icons, and also it's one of those apps that confuse the protection bit for Hold with "Hidden" (easily changed by editing the binary though). It also lacks direct support for the "Start from" tooltypes, but one can ofcourse set them manually ("CLI" and "REXX").
On the MiniMig I just use the buildt in info window, it lacks a few things and can be improved (adding "Pure" and "Hold" protection bits, and a menu to select icon type, and lastly version info and perhaps even md5sum. I assume it is part of workbench.library?
Anyways, I happily prefer RAWBInfo and ClassAct/Reaction apps over MUI apps, I cant really say I have noticed that MUI is any faster or less RAM gobling, more the other way around really.
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Anyways, I happily prefer RAWBInfo and ClassAct/Reaction apps over MUI apps, I cant really say I have noticed that MUI is any faster or less RAM gobling, more the other way around really.
MUI was always slower and more RAM intensive, but once you got to '030 and 8 meg ram territory it didn't matter. MUI was also far more configurable and powerful. I seem to recall rumours that early on in the planning of 3.5, H and P wanted to use MUI over ClassAct, but didn't want to pay the asking price. As it turned out I think MUI became the foundation for the GUI for Ambient, shame really, MUI on a 3.1 machine was lightyears away ahead of any other GUI on any platform at the time.
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You said it! Me too man, but it is fun going back and tweaking these beasts to get 'em to do what you want 'em to do. Thanks for the tidbits. I'll have to do some more investigating. I've definitely forgotten as much, if not more as I once knew. Lots of variables why that is, but let's just say as the more time goes on - with the internet and "computing" where it is now, I'm really digging the simplicity and the 'getting back to basics' (hardly) computing experience that one receives playing around with the Amiga again - after all these years.
that was the thing about Amiga. For all the stuff that was lacking built in at the OS level, someone somewhere had written a program to cover it, usually for free, and stuck it on Aminet for anyone to enjoy.
I can remember seeing OS 3.1 screen shots of high end workbench screens that looked every bit as beautiful as what's available today, and each one customized and looking and working differently to the other. New Menu systems, gui driven archiver systems, multicolored icon systems, filetyping systems, new GUI systems, docks bars, souped-up CLI, all for free. IMO, the Amiga shareware/freeware scene had no peer in quantity and quality, and the programmers were so talented.