Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: mantisspider on November 17, 2003, 01:43:39 AM
-
Due to reasons I will not explain here further (ask me in private), Poseidon keyfiles cannot be bought after 01-Aug-03. People having just bought an USB card, that does not come with an OEM Licence, have the chance to register Poseidon until the end of this month.
Support for existing users is NOT affected and will continue as usually.
It is recommended that dealers stop selling USB cards without licence to avoid angry customers buying an useless piece of hardware, until the vendor delivers his own software solution or the situation is solved somehow.
Chris Hodges
Author of Poseidon
the Elbox website says
The CD enclosed with the Spider card contains Mediator EHCI (USB 2.0) and OHCI (USB 1.1) drivers for the Poseidon stack.
But i gather from the news post Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44598) that they dont supply the drivers for the Poseidon stack. :-( im pretty confused again.
basically; if i buy the spider PCI card i wont be able to use it cos Poseidon dont support it and supply drivers for it anymore? that right?
also saw that the spider is the only PCI hardware controller for the amiga. DAMN biscuits!
im sure there must be a lot of people coming back to the amiga who got excited about USB on their miggy (i told a friend of mine on the phone and he was stunned for a fair few moments). any info on how to show the glory of the digital cameras and easy data exchanging to our amiga 1200s will be greatly appreciated.
-
Poseidon support for the Spider has been terminated due to issues between Chris Hodges and Elbox.
Elbox are supposedly preparing to release their own stack for use with the Spider, but AFAIK this has not happened yet.
Alternatively, the next release of OpenPCI should allow Guido Mersmann's ArakAttack driver to work with ordinary Amigas. Of course, if you have an A1200 with a Mediator, you probably won't have OpenPCi support either, so you have no choice except to rely on Elbox.
Welcome to today's real Amiga scene! :-(
-
damn that sucks incredibly.
so the long and the short of it is that I wont be able to have USB on my amiga. DOH!
-
You could try a subway (clockport?) which is supported by Poseidon (and the cost for it is included), or wait on Elbox to deliver their driver. All I know for certain is that it is a hairy situation.
-
Yup its true, basicly if you get a Spider USB card for mediator you have a 30 min use of Poseidon. Its lame and stupid to say the least. This has been a long ongoing battle in the mediator mailing list for ages now too. I got a spider just before the post about him not supporting it, by the time I got my card it was to late. I have since sold it because Chris refused to issue me a key even if I paid for in twice! I'm now using a ZII Algor card (I think the big thing was Elbox sold more Spider cards then E3B sold clock and Zorro cards)
-
mantispider: go get a subway usb, it has a usbstack included and there will be no fuzz when getting it.
it fits on the clockport (a1200) , or if you have a ziv mediator then you can fit it on there also, on a catweasel etc..
dont wait for elbox on this as elbox still just tells you that go to aminet and download poseidon demo and use that bla bla..
anyway to remove the confusio:
(PCI) Spider 2.0 = Poseidon Impossible to Register (since aug.2003)
(Clockport)Subway = Still possible.
also all products are shown on the poseidon website what it supports , and its not likely support will stop for the adapters like subway etc.
also a small note to all spider owners , to them who registered before august 2003 can still get updates but it havent happened yet.
anyway i have a spider2.0 and its good, and i regged before aug2003 (phew) ...
cheers
-
(I think the big thing was Elbox sold more Spider cards then E3B sold clock and Zorro cards)
I honestly doubt that ther were more then a few Spider cards sold. The whole issue is about Elbox not being open an honest to Chris about e few things. He has the whole story on its website and I actually bothered to read the whole thing. Unfortunately (well I think at last for you) most of it is in german.
-
But i gather from the news post Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 that they dont supply the drivers for the Poseidon stack. im pretty confused again.
Spider drivers for the Poseidon stack have never been included in the Poseidon stack archive.
Spider drivers (spider.device and usb.device) have been developed by Elbox. They are enclosed on Elbox SpiderCD, which is bundled with the Spider card.
-
Poseidon support for the Spider has been terminated
Poseidon has NEVER supported the Spider card directly. Poseidon is the USB stack.
The support for the specific USB cards is provided by hardware drivers. Spider hardware drivers for the Poseidon stack have been developed and are supplied by Elbox, not by the Poseidon author.
Poseidon is like TCP/IP stack (e.g. MiamiDX, Genesis or Envoy 3). TCP/IP stacks do not support any network card directly. Drivers for the specific Ethernet or FastEthernet cards are supplied by the network card or the PCI busboard manufacturer.
Elbox still supports Poseidon stack and Spider/Poseidon users. OHCI and EHCI drivers for the Poseidon stack are enclosed with each Spider card.
due to issues between Chris Hodges and Elbox.
Here is my translation of the the most important part of the message from Elbox which appeared last month in one of the Polish news list in this respect:
----
Pursuant to the agreement made with Chris Hodges, author of the Poseidon stack,
(mutually agreed official release see here:
http://www.elbox.com/news_02_09_11B.html) Elbox undertook to write hardware
drivers for the Poseidon stack for users of our USB controllers, and the author
of the Poseidon stack undertook to provide problem-free, paid registration of his
shareware software to every Mediator user who asks him for such registration.
Since making this agreement Elbox has been keeping all his obligations.
Unfortunately, the other party of the agreement, author of the Poseidon stack,
Chris Hodges, has been violating provisions of the agreement for several weeks
now, refusing sales of registration keys to users of Spider cards.
Chris Hodges refuses to answer our messages in this respect.
This dishonest action of Chris Hodges we perceive as an attempt at forcing
Mediator users to buy controllers of the USB 1.1 standard, produced by the E3B
company, with which Chris Hodges is very closely related.
We are now taking steps to cool down Chris Hodges from harming Mediator users.
Independent of this, every Mediator user who wants to use the Spider card and the
Poseidon stack, is fully entitled to demand problem-free registration from the
stack's author: Chris Hodges.
----
-
Alternatively, the next release of OpenPCI should allow Guido Mersmann's ArakAttack driver to work with ordinary Amigas.
ArakAttack drivers are USB 1.1 (OHCI and UHCI) ONLY.
Spider drivers by Elbox are EHCI (USB 2.0)!
AFAIK ArakAttack drivers do not include the Poseidon registration too.
-
You could try a subway (clockport?) which is supported by Poseidon
New Elbox drivers (e.g. for Mediator) do not work when you have any USB card from E3B (subway, highway, algor) installed in your computer.
-
The whole issue is about Elbox not being open an honest to Chris about e few things. He has the whole story on its website and I actually bothered to read the whole thing. Unfortunately (well I think at last for you) most of it is in german.
No. The 'Soap Opera' is not in German. It is in English.
I read all this 'Soap Opera' of Hodges and I have to admit I respect Elbox for peace and good manners in treating this 'partner,' who since very beginning wanted to go against them. Problem is that it was HODGES who BROKE the agreement. It is Hodges who is not honest.
For more about Hodges' ethics see my post in the Mediator ML http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16577 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16577)
-
You aren`t by any chance on the payrole of Elbox ? Heck I belive you are FROM Elbox.
But you are right, the elboxstory on Chris page is indeed in english. I didn`t "notice" since reading english in the web has become quite naturally for me, so I often don`t "feel" the difference.
-
@ Lemmink
I'm Hodges' customer. Hodges cheated me. He switched off my registration keys for Poseidon, for which I paid him.
-
damn after reading all this things about the relationship between Hodges, Elbox and E3Bug makes u fill sick how people are still causing so much trouble around a platform which is trying to stop itself being killed.
guys developing for it should be applauded and hats off to Hodges, but if any of the accusations against him are true, it goes to show that the mighty dollar (quid, buck, sheckles, whatever) really turn something good into something bad.
So to use USB 2.0 devices on an Amiga, with OS3.9 (until OS4 comes out) what do we actually need?
barring in mind it has to be an option compatible with the Mediator PCI bus or the Eyetech PCI solution for those using that one.
This must be a question that is on so many Amiga users minds... cos face it, USB is one of major features required on any machine today.
cheers guys
-
I wonder how he would manage that: thelepatie telekinese... If you have a fully working keyfile it just doesn`t stop working all of a sudden, but I can quite imagine that newser versions won`t work with that keyfile anymore.
You should blame Elbox and not Chris for this. If they told Chris the whole story, that they plan to sell a dongeled card you wold get an OEM license directly from Elbox together with the card, just like it is with der Highway,Subway,Algor.
I still belive you are working for Elbox, as no one could ever be on the side of Elbox no matter on what case.
-
---
-
@tjaoz
Why don't you shut up and write that stack for Elbox?
Otherwise, take Chris Hodges to court for the alleged breach of contract or STFU!
Everyone in the Amiga community is fed up with your trolling in every thread. It wouldn't surpise me at all to find that the coward who posted a "how-to-crack-Poseidon" guide on the amithlonopen list was you.
Yes, ArakAttack drivers do not include Poseidon registrations either - for now. OTOH, users are not being ripped off by being made to pay for something which cannot be used, which is the case for the Spider.
Elbox have always been totally hostile to all other developers, and have a track record for bad relations. No wonder no one wants to support them.
The ironic thing is that Elbox excuse their inclusion of trojans in their software by claiming to be combating piracy, while at the same time their most fanatical supporters are involved in open piracy.
-
i am still using my regged posidon with spider2.0 , he havent removed me from his list...
wanna explain further?
cheers
-
quote:
New Elbox drivers (e.g. for Mediator) do not work when you have any USB card from E3B (subway, highway, algor) installed in your computer.
end of quote
WTF? , if this happens then i will boikott elbox forever, theese wars are simply STUPID and if this happens then i claim my money back for all the hw i bought at elbox (and that aint little)
cheers
-
@Lemmink
If you have a fully working keyfile it just doesn`t stop working all of a sudden, but I can quite imagine that newser versions won`t work with that keyfile anymore.
My keys do not work since ver.2.0 of Poseidon. See the part of Hodges description about this Poseidon version: 'Although the version number has been bumped to V2.0, it contains mostly bug fixes.' Switching my keys off is a clear violation of my rights as a client.
You should blame Elbox and not Chris for this. If they told Chris the whole story, that they plan to sell a dongeled card you wold get an OEM license directly from Elbox together with the card, just like it is with der Highway,Subway,Algor.
In case of such dishonest person as Hodges, OEM license do not solve anything. Hodges could always inform: 'OEM license for Spider has been terminated and the support has been dropped for all the times.'
If a company, where I bought my hardware, sold it to me along with Poseidon (e.g. as OEM product), I would have complained with them. But I bought Poseidon directly from Hodges, no go-betweens!
BTW. You should know that it was Hodges, who refused bundling Poseidon with the Elbox USB card. Check this post in the Mediator ML:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/13629 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/13629 )
-
@_D_
It's precisely that attitude which prevents me from spending any money with Elbox.
I think that this is simple response to the Hodges' move.
Stopping Poseidon registration for the Spider users promotes other (IMHO obsolete and overpriced) USB Amiga cards.
You can find in the 'soap opera' that Hodges agreed with Elbox to be neutral to users of different hardware USB Amiga solutions. Hodges clearly broke this agreement. Now Elbox helps him in this case.
Fortunately we have companies now such as Genesi, which don't have to resort to dirty tricks to sell products.
Do you want to discuss here the dirty tricks of the ex-phase5 (now Genesi) people?
-
@bhoggett
Otherwise, take Chris Hodges to court for the alleged breach of contract or STFU!
I approached the German federation for consumer rights against Hodges. I will pursue my rights from Hodges on the legal way.
Everyone in the Amiga community is fed up with your trolling in every thread.
I rather find you as such permanent troll.
If you do not like my posts, simply stop reading them.
It wouldn't surpise me at all to find that the coward who posted a "how-to-crack-Poseidon" guide on the amithlonopen list was you. Yes, ArakAttack drivers do not include Poseidon registrations either - for now. OTOH, users are not being ripped off by being made to pay for something which cannot be used, which is the case for the Spider.
Maybe this is you 'who posted a "how-to-crack-Poseidon" guide on the amithlonopen list' to allow using Poseidon with ArakAttack without the registration key?
Have you registered the Poseidon stack?
Elbox have always been totally hostile to all other developers, and have a track record for bad relations. No wonder no one wants to support them.
AFAIK Elbox have much more drivers for their PCI solution than any other manufacturer. It proves that they have excellent relations with real, honest software developers.
-
@tjaoz
I rather find you as such permanent troll. If you do not like my posts, simply stop reading them.
Hardly. Not only are you intent on damaging a developer, but you troll by posting 6 replies to every one post.
Maybe this is you 'who posted a "how-to-crack-Poseidon" guide on the amithlonopen list' to allow using Poseidon with ArakAttack without the registration key?
And why would I do that? I not me who hates Chris Hodges, it's you. It's not ArakAttack users who will not get support with Poseidon, it's Elbox customers.
Have you registered the Poseidon stack?
Why would I do that? I don't have a Spider, since I wouldn't touch any Elbox product with a bargepole, and I don't use ArakAttack as I have no need for USB on the few occasions I use AmigaOS.
AFAIK Elbox have much more drivers for their PCI solution than any other manufacturer. It proves that they have excellent relations with real, honest software developers.
Really? Shall we dig up the way they broke the licensing conditions on the P96 dev kit? Or the way they sold the Spider II with "Amithlon support" without telling the general public that they couldn't use it yet? Or the recriminations and name calling they indulged in with Hyperion before agreeing a deal over the Warp3D drivers for Voodoo 3 cards? Or the way they claimed thay had Voodoo 4 and 5 specific drivers when they were only Voodoo 3 drivers that worked with Voodoo 4 and 5 but without the advanced features being supported? Or the viruses they put in their software and the LIES they told when denying the existence of those trojans? Or how about the long list of drivers they said they had in development years ago which have never materialised.
No... let's not bother. You'd need to extract your head from your rectum before you could see any of that, and we all know that's asking too much of you.
-
Switching of keyfiles does NOT violate your rights, cos you only bought
Poseidon 1.x, which still works for you,not 2.x.
Free updates are a friendly gesture, not something that is mandatory.
Friendly gestures towards someone as hostile as you cant be expected.
Man, am I happy I never bought any Hellbox-crap.
-
My keys do not work since ver.2.0 of Poseidon. See the part of Hodges description about this Poseidon version: 'Although the version number has been bumped to V2.0, it contains mostly bug fixes.' Switching my keys off is a clear violation of my rights as a client.
You are not really a client. Elbox has "at NO time" had an OEM license for Hodges USB software. Never.
In case of such dishonest person as Hodges, OEM license do not solve anything. Hodges could always inform: 'OEM license for Spider has been terminated and the support has been dropped for all the times.'
Why does that make Hodges dishonest? If you remember correctly, the reason Hodges has problems with Elbox, is because they inserted malicious code into their drivers who's purpose was to corrupt users harddrive.
When Hodges learned this, he gave Elbox a choice, either remove the code and APOLOGISE to their customers, or go fish. Elbox REFUSED to apologise, and decided, of their own free will, to go fish. This decision was %100 Elbox.
-
Nothing more than blind praise.
The trojan thing should have been the end of Elbox in the Amiga market instead of people defending those crooks who continue to spit in the faces of Amiga users and developers.
In this market you can sh!t on people and get nothing but praise and thanks in return.
-
---removed---
-
New Elbox drivers (e.g. for Mediator) do not work when you have any USB card from E3B (subway, highway, algor) installed in your computer.
No this is simply untrue. I have a Algor and I have a mediator, both are working just fine.
tjaoz wrote:
-
tjaoz wrote:
You could try a subway (clockport?) which is supported by Poseidon
New Elbox drivers (e.g. for Mediator) do not work when you have any USB card from E3B (subway, highway, algor) installed in your computer.
!!!!
Why?
-
@tjaoz
So, you are now saying that my Mediator driver prevents me from CHOOSING another USB solution for my A1200?!
-
I lost track of who makes what in this thread. It just cracks me up that you Amiga zealots bash other platforms like crazy and complain about evil business practices, while at the same time you're buying hardware from one company, drivers from someone else, "stacks" or whateverthehell from someone else, and they all seem to fight with each other. You guys really are pretty desperate to buy stuff in pieces like this.
Reputation, folks... a company or individual is nothing without reputation. Precicely why I don't get mixed up in this crappy aftermarket, at least not anymore. I bought a Subaru because they've been around for decades and make kickass cars. I bought aftermarket parts for the car because I wanted to make it better. I found out very quickly that if "they" ship you the wrong swaybar or a bracket doesn't fit... tough -- take it to a machine shop and fix it yourself!
Thus, I don't buy aftermarket parts, anymore, unless they come from a local shop that does a LOT of work and have knowledgeable technicians on site that go through all the installation stages with you ahead of time. It costs more, but it's worth it. I learned my lesson the hard way.
This is why I wanted to see Amiga Inc. get on their feet and unify the Amiga market. Instead, we're still being served crap in pieces.
-
@ tjaoz
I'm tempted to reply but you obviously have lost the sense for reallity or are just plain dumb, so it won't make sense to talk to you anymore.
-
@ tjaoz
I'm tempted to reply but you obviously have lost the sense for reallity or are just plain dumb, so it won't make sense to talk to you anymore.
I would have to agree...in fact I deleted all
of my other comments to tjzoa in this thread,
dunno why I even bothered to begin with. :/
This thread should probably be locked or moved
off the front page...
-
Lemmink: Good thing on Tjaoz is that only thing he cares is Elbox ... So most of time he's remins dormant.
And you can consider yourself lucky if you have not seen his rants on ann.lu ... those insults (mostly about C. Hodges mental state) were quite telling.
-
@-D-
Yes, it's time this thread was put out of its misery. What started out as a simple enquiry that got factual but neutral answers has degenerated into YAF (Yet Another Farce or Yet Another Flamefest, take your pick).
I wish I didn't let myself get dragged into these things. :roll:
@mantisspider
The problem with the Amiga market isn't the mighty dollar, it's the lack of the mighty dollar. Everyone is so busy fighting over the few remaining scraps that they neglect what they set out to do in the first place.
-
@T-Bone
When Hodges learned this, he gave Elbox a choice, either remove the code and APOLOGISE to their customers, or go fish. Elbox REFUSED to apologise, and decided, of their own free will, to go fish. This decision was %100 Elbox.
When I learned that Elbox had this code in their drivers, I was surprised, but not worried. I have had a mediator for a couple of years now with a Gfx card/TVCard/Soundcard/Ethernet card and have had NO problems with drivers trashing my HDD.
So as such I feel no need to have Elbox apologise to me.
While I agree that it might not have been the wisest move to include the anti-piracy code, now they have removed it I don't see why CH got so upset.
Rassilon
-
never been attacked by thoose anti piracy code either, but maybe thats because i regged the drivers and bought the mmcd etc? .
i dont know why this is so dangerous , but then again i dont say its right to do so but i would be pretty pissed also if someone put my drivers on the web for free when it was commercial stuff.
anyway i lost the connection on this thread now , it seems tjhoz is in the middle (both pro and con on elbox) and so am i..
i would probably have been on a Z2i solution now ifit hadnt been for the mediator so i am very glad it did this upgrade, its the best i have ever done ... or hmm i think that was my 060 in 95... ok mediator = second best :)
-
He attacked Chris andhe removed his right to upgrade, which is totally legal.
When you buy a program, you buy the CURRENT version of it, not future ones.
-
It's dangerous because the AmigaOS is not a memory protected system. If you're unlucky enough,
a crashed program could jump in the code and
execute it, erasing your RDB.
The other ways to trigger it can be manupulated by
a naughty program the same way.
-
The thing that makes me mad about this this, Chris went to Elbox and got them to stop development on the USB stack they wee making and adopt his. Not after a few months of it working he acts like a child and takes it away. Not very adult if you ask me. I wasted $80 on a spider card too before I knew he stopped taking registrations.
-
@AmiGR
I have developed 1 or two programs on my miggy (including progs for the Elbox TVCard drivers) , so through testing I have had my fair share of crashes.
In all this time I have not had Elbox's RDB trashing code activate at all.
If I was cynical I would say that the anti-piracy code was a convenient excuse for CH, after all he has a number of other possibly (<----note the word possibly) conflicting companies using his software!.
Rassilon
-
If I was cynical I would say that the anti-piracy code was a convenient excuse for CH, after all he has a number of other possibly (<----note the word possibly) conflicting companies using his software!.
Well said! You know I am 99.9% sure that this all came out when someone tried to pirate the driver and make a non Elbox branded with the same chipset work with the drivers. I'm sure the code activated and messed up te RDB at that time. Its a shame, but thats what you get for hackig a driver like that. chris the decided he would be a child and do what he did. If you read his soap opera you can see he is the one that freaked and didnt and acted likea kid instead of talking it out. That email he sent to Elbox was just totaly off the scale!!! I cant believe a programer would do something like that! How baby like can you get Chris?!
-
JoannaK wrote:
Lemmink: Good thing on Tjaoz is that only thing he cares is Elbox ... So most of time he's remins dormant.
And you can consider yourself lucky if you have not seen his rants on ann.lu ... those insults (mostly about C. Hodges mental state) were quite telling.
I've noticed that too, check his posting history here, EVERY post he's made is promoting various Elbox products, or throwing mud at Elbox's enemies.
-
> While I agree that it might not have been the
> wisest move to include the anti-piracy code, now
> they have removed it I don't see why CH got so upset.
Maybe he was upset because it's ILLEGAL? He stated very plainly why he was upset. Elbox required an OEM license, yet they were trying to finagle a non-OEM license for an OEM product, this, on TOP of having an ILLEGAL anti-piracy mecanism built into the driver that's supposed to interface to Chris's stack.
Elbox would today, still be licensed, if they simply apologised for the illegal code. if only everyone who's made mistakes had it THAT easy.
-
"If I was cynical I would say that the anti-piracy code was a convenient excuse for CH, after all he has a number of other possibly (<----note the word possibly) conflicting companies using his software!."
How is that an incentive to block Elbox?
A license is a license. Makes no difference to Chris who the card is licensed to, he gets his fee.
That's like saying someone who owns a gas station might POSSIBLY have an ulterior motive for not selling gas to Ford built cars, even though their only income is from selling gas.
-
i give a rats ass about all this mumbojumbo , i want to know if i buy cards from other companies..am i in danger then?
maybe i want an extra pci slot? then i will toss out my spider for sure and my soundcard..., if this will do me harm or my amiga then i will get crazy.
lets say , i get a delphina clockport card and a subway usb... if i attach them they wont work because i have a mediator?...
maaaaaaaaaaan i can smell all these new thread on theese forums we use...
now what if it works but it trash your setup? "mediator detected , Time To take REVENGE" BRRRRRRRR
or what on earth is all this about?...
i want an answer and that NOW, i give a #### about the malicious code in spider driver because it would never hurt me anyway, if it had then it would have trashed my system ages ago...nothing ever works here :D
cheers
-
@Kronos
Switching of keyfiles does NOT violate your rights, cos you only bought
Poseidon 1.x, which still works for you,not 2.x.
Free updates are a friendly gesture, not something that is mandatory.
You have completely no idea how consumer rights work in EU.
You can read about it in my post in the Mediator ML: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16526 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16526)
-
You never answered my question tjoaz. Will updating my mediator driver prevent me from using a SubWay card?
-
@T_Bone
You are not really a client. Elbox has "at NO time" had an OEM license for Hodges USB software. Never.
You did not get the point.
I'm a Hodges' client. I bought the registration keys directly from him. Hodges is a seller in this case, not matter what he sells.
Why does that make Hodges dishonest?
1. He switched off the keys, for which I paid him.
2. He does not fulfil obligations of the agreement that he made with Elbox.
-
@Acill
No this is simply untrue. I have a Algor and I have a mediator, both are working just fine.
Which driver versions do you use?
Do you have access to the pci.library 6.0?
-
@T_Bone
!!!!
Why?
OK, once again:
My guess is this is a simple response to the Hodges' move.
Stopping Poseidon registration for Spider users promotes other (IMHO obsolete and overpriced) USB Amiga cards. Hodges agreed with Elbox to be always neutral to users of different hardware USB Amiga solutions. Hodges move clearly breaks this agreement.
Now Elbox helps Hodges in restoring balance and regaining neutrality for various Amiga USB solutions.
-
@Targhan
So, you are now saying that my Mediator driver prevents me from CHOOSING another USB solution for my A1200?!
You can always use old drivers.
-
i give a rats ass about all this mumbojumbo , i want to know if i buy cards from other companies..am i in danger then?
maybe i want an extra pci slot? then i will toss out my spider for sure and my soundcard..., if this will do me harm or my amiga then i will get crazy.
lets say , i get a delphina clockport card and a subway usb... if i attach them they wont work because i have a mediator?...
maaaaaaaaaaan i can smell all these new thread on theese forums we use...
now what if it works but it trash your setup? "mediator detected , Time To take REVENGE" BRRRRRRRR
or what on earth is all this about?...
i want an answer and that NOW, i give a #### about the malicious code in spider driver because it would never hurt me anyway, if it had then it would have trashed my system ages ago...nothing ever works here :D
cheers
-
@Lemmink
I'm tempted to reply but you obviously have lost the sense for reallity or are just plain dumb, so it won't make sense to talk to you anymore.
Thank you for you kind words. I'm glad not to hear from you any more.
-
tjaoz wrote:
@Kronos
Switching of keyfiles does NOT violate your rights, cos you only bought
Poseidon 1.x, which still works for you,not 2.x.
Free updates are a friendly gesture, not something that is mandatory.
You have completely no idea how consumer rights work in EU.
Neither do you Tjaoz..
By your logic, I should sue Microsoft for not letting me have a free copy of WinXP..since I`m a registered Win95&98 owner..
If your original version of Poseidon stopped working, then I`d agree and say you had a legal case against Chris Hodges ..but it hasn`t has it?
-
@bhoggett
Hardly. Not only are you intent on damaging a developer,
No, this is not my intention.
It is Hodges who tries to damage his own reputation and his own product with the childish game, he plays against Spider users and against Elbox.
According to me, such behaviour as his should be publicly ostracised.
Hodges did not prepare drivers for Spider. Pawel Stypula, a developer from Elbox did the job. The drivers were prepared on Hodges's request. Now Hodges refusing sales of keys for Mediator users is trying to DESTROY the work of another developer.
At the same time, Hodges tries to destroy the only USB 2.0 controller for Amiga and to help selling out ancient USB 1.1 cards made by his friend from E3B. Sure, same Pegasos fans applause Hodges. They are not really happy with Pegasos having only USB 1.1 support while Spider is a USB 2.0 controller.
Games like that of Hodges' make the Amiga situation as bad as it is now. Sure, for you it's only pleasure - you are not bothering about a computer which you do not have.
but you troll by posting 6 replies to every one post.
It seems that you have serious problems with counting. Could you show me these 6 replies of mine to ONE post?
And why would I do that? I not me who hates Chris Hodges, it's you. It's not ArakAttack users who will not get support with Poseidon, it's Elbox customers.
Why would you do that?
Maybe you posted this 'how-to-crack-Poseidon' guide in order to convince Hodges to finally begin Poseidon registration for ArakAttack users. Now he has no choice, if he does not want to lose money he should very quickly start the Poseidon registration for the ArakAttack users. It looks like Amithlon funs have much more 'effective methods' to convince Hodges to support their platform than Mediator users have ever had.
I don't have a Spider, since I wouldn't touch any Elbox product with a bargepole, and I don't use ArakAttack as I have no need for USB on the few occasions I use AmigaOS.
As someone completely not 'interested in using the Poseidon stack' you have very much to talk about. :-)
Really? Shall we dig up the way they broke the licensing conditions on the P96 dev kit? Or the way they sold the Spider II with "Amithlon support" without telling the general public that they couldn't use it yet? Or the recriminations and name calling they indulged in with Hyperion before agreeing a deal over the Warp3D drivers for Voodoo 3 cards? Or the way they claimed thay had Voodoo 4 and 5 specific drivers when they were only Voodoo 3 drivers that worked with Voodoo 4 and 5 but without the advanced features being supported? Or the viruses they put in their software and the LIES they told when denying the existence of those trojans? Or how about the long list of drivers they said they had in development years ago which have never materialised.
1. Elbox wrote their own hardware drivers for graphic cards to work with the P96 graphic system. P96 authors did not help Elbox in writing these drivers. Elbox never had any contract with them. What Elbox did in this case is legal and honest. From each point of view it is much more fair than what other companies did with P96.
Maybe you prefer the Ateo way?
I heard that they ordered P96 drivers from P96 team for their Pixel64 card. The Picasso team developed these drivers but Ateo never paid.
2. As far as Spider Amithlon support is concern your accusations are your own fantasies. I remember this amiga.org thread where you were so angry at Elbox that VMC placed on-line their new powerpci.library a few days AFTER Elbox had announced the Spider II Amithlon support.
It so funny that in your eyes Elbox is responsible for everything happening in the world. :-)
It is even more funny taking into account that, as you wrote, you are not interested in USB support at all :-)
3. About Elbox and Hyperion story: Elbox and Hyperion are serious companies. They negotiated the Warp3D contract longer than e.g. Matay did. But remember that Matay do not exist as a company any more, so it is not the best example. Finally both Elbox and Hyperion met their contract obligations. I even heard that Elbox was the only company which paid Warp 3D OEM bills.
BTW As far as I see you are an Amithlon fun.
Do you know that Amithlon does not have Warp 3D support at all?
Do you know that it is because Amithlon authors/editors have not agreed to pay Hyperion for the Warp 3D OEM licence like Elbox did?
Why you do not cry in this case?!
4. Voodoo 4 and Voodoo 5 support: Elbox have their own P96 drivers SPECIFIC for the Voodoo 4 and Voodoo5 cards. Warp 3D drivers for Voodoo 3 support Voodoo 4 and Voodoo 5 thanks to proper initialization of Voodoo4/5 cards by Elbox 2D drivers. Elbox clearly informed about this, e.g. here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Prometheus/message/1057 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Prometheus/message/1057)
5. About viruses and trojans: You should learn a little bit more what are the meanings of these words.
You'd need to extract your head from your rectum before you could see any of that, and we all know that's asking too much of you.
Interesting ideas. Are you practising some yoga games? It must be very hard on your body when you want to write in this position :-)
-
@tjaoz
Maybe you posted this 'how-to-crack-Poseidon' guide in order to convince Hodges to finally begin Poseidon registration for ArakAttack users. Now he has no choice, if he does not want to lose money he should very quickly start the Poseidon registration for the ArakAttack users. It looks like Amithlon funs have much more 'effective methods' to convince Hodges to support their platform than Mediator users have ever had.
This is a lie, as I would expect from tjaoz aka Rat.
The person who posted the how-to-crack guide is not an Amithlon "fun" and is most likely not a user either. His name is certainly not Dan Gaines and he is not in the UK either, despite the e-mail address used.
The person in question joined the mailing list less than a week before posting the crack, and that was the only post he ever made. It was cross posted to the amithlonopen, amithlon and Mediator mailing lists. The purpose was simply to damage Chris Hodges and nothing else.
So, considering that you tell lies about what happened and try to blame genuine users, and considering that "Dan Gaines" posted in bad English which showed it was not his native laguage, I'm quite certain the culprit is you.
As for Hodges making Poseidon available with ArakAttack, this was always going to happen in good time, as was posted by the ArakAttack author when he released the driver. The piracy episode has had no effect whatsoever, except to have the bogus address immediately expelled from both amithlon lists. I have no idea how the mediator list reacted since that forum is of no interest to me.
However, any list that condoned such actions or failed to remove the offending message leaves itself open to closure by YahooGroups for abusing their usage conditions.
As far as I'm concerned Elbox are a bunch of virus writers, no different at all from the scum who write all those Outlook worms. It doesn't matter why they did it, only that they did.
You do not have entitlement to Poseidon 2. End of story. You paid for Poseidon v1 and that's what you got. Hodges never "switched off" your key, he just removed it from the list of keys supported by the updates. Unless you have a written guarantee that you are entitled to free updates for life, you have no case.
As for Elbox having an agreement with Hodges, where is the contract? Where does it say that they are allowed to use Poseidon to activate their virus? Both the lack of a contract and Elbox' criminal abuse of his software entitle Hodges to remove all support from Elbox as he has done.
Now Elbox using their updated drivers to disable competitors' hardware from existing users is another matter. That is unquestionably an abuse of consumer rights, and if I was an affected customer I would definitely make an official complaint against them.
-
tjaoz wrote:
> You did not get the point. I'm a Hodges' client. I bought the
> registration keys directly from him. Hodges is a seller in this
> case, not matter what he sells.
You still have what you bought from him.
>> Why does that make Hodges dishonest?
> 1. He switched off the keys, for which I paid him.
No, he disabled your key for the versions you DIDNT pay for.
I have a key for photoshop 7, this doesn't mean I'm entitled to Photoshop 8.
> He does not fulfil obligations of the agreement that he made with Elbox.
Chris has a legal and valid reason NOT to, one, no OEM agreement was *ever* made, two, even if one *had* been made, Elbox's illegal action made any agreement incontingent.
Also, let's not forget Chris *did* give Elbox a chance, like I said he made it perfectly clear that they remove all illegal code and apologise, or go fish. Elbox chose to go fish. That was a choice Elbox made. If you disagree with their choice, you should take that up with Elbox.
If Elbox had simply apologised, none of this would have happened.
-
I am astound that some care so less about the RDB deletion code that were in the Elbox drivers. Let`s say some company installs a mechanism in a car that shoots whoever is in the driveing seat, if he tries to move the car without haveing the ignitionkey. There will be a chance of say 1 to 1.000.000 for a system malfunction. Would you dare to drive with such a car ??
-
@T_Bone
How is that an incentive to block Elbox? A license is a license. Makes no difference to Chris who the card is licensed to, he gets his fee.
Now I'm not saying that this is the same situation, but look at the last time Elbox had a contract with a driver supplier.... CGFX..... and look what happened, another company nullified there contract by arranging an exclusive contract.
You ask why someone might do that? for money, why else!
As for the anti-piracy code it was an easy get out clause, that enabled CH to cancel the contract. Elbox removed the code and things were ok for a while, then CH decided out of the blue that he didn't want to support Elbox any more.
TBH the only way CH could lose out in the Elbox deal is if someone pirated a keyfile, otherwise anyone that purchased a Spider card has to register Posiedon to get any proper use out of it.
Now you would argue that if Elbox had purchased an OEM agreement the piracy wouldn't have happened and CH would have got his money, but look at my previous point with CGFX, Elbox lost out, MONEY, becuase a supplier back stabbed them.
Now you wonder why they appraoch other suppliers with a cynical attitude!
Rassilon
-
Tjaoz is not a troll. He simply says some true things and some people can't accept them.
Man, am I happy I never bought any Hellbox-crap.
Infact you are crap Kronos. A little children.... Who cares? The only reason why i use my amiga again is Elbox hardware, and this is true for a lot of amigans.
About the new driver story... Yes, wil be a stupid Elbox moves, they were "attacked" by Chris and other products but if they do it they are wrong as their competitors.
-
I dont see Tjaoz trolling on here, maybe it is elsewhere that is being referred to. I see him conducting himself civilly despite being attacked by other forum users.
-
1. Tjaoz bought Poseidon, but has been denied updates. This is not illegal, most products are sold that way by default. I am a registered AmIRC 2.x user. I would have to pay again to get AmIRC 3.x. This is legal. The fact that other Poseidon users are granted free updates is a matter of courtesy, NOT law.
2. The RDB code was utterly wrong and utterly illegal, no matter how unlikely it is to execute on a legitimate users machine. I felt betrayed by Elbox and their actions are inexcusable. I almost stopped working on SuperTV there and then, but that would be harming the users more than Elbox. It did stop my work on some other Mediator drivers, though.
3. It seems to me that the whole poseidon issue is the fault of both Elbox and Chris.
That is all I have to say on the subject.
-
Since i still havent got an answer to this , i will ask again.
i give a rats ass about all this mumbojumbo , i want to know if i buy cards from other companies..am i in danger then?
maybe i want an extra pci slot? then i will toss out my spider for sure and my soundcard..., if this will do me harm or my amiga then i will get crazy.
lets say , i get a delphina clockport card and a subway usb... if i attach them they wont work because i have a mediator?...
maaaaaaaaaaan i can smell all these new thread on theese forums we use...
now what if it works but it trash your setup? "mediator detected , Time To take REVENGE" BRRRRRRRR
or what on earth is all this about?...
i want an answer and that NOW, i give a #### about the malicious code in spider driver because it would never hurt me anyway, if it had then it would have trashed my system ages ago...nothing ever works here :D
cheers
-
> now what if it works but it trash your setup? "mediator detected , Time To take REVENGE" BRRRRRRRR
No. Read exactly what Rat wrote: He claims that Elb*x planted code into THEIR drivers to detect E3B hardware and will therefore refuse working. As long as nobody has these "new" drivers, I consider everything Rat says as FUD. Poseidon does not contain code to stop working on setups with Elb*x hardware installed, except for the RDB trashing code detection for their usb.device.
-
@lempkee
I have an Algor in one of the zorro slots of my Mediator 4000. Works great.
-
Hi Chris,
(Please note that I have a mediator with gfx card/sound card etc, but not USB card from any supplier)
Having read your Soap Opera I can only conclude that you over reacted.
I understand your concern over the anti-piracy code, but as it was removed by Elbox that should have been the end of the issue. Your insistance of a public apology, (when no one had accidently activated the anti-piracy code) was unecessary, and a poor excuse for removing support.
At the end of the day you did yourself a dis-service by not continuing the keyfile system. Had you continued it you would not have lost money, only made some from registrations from Spider users.
Just because an unscroupulous individual decides to hack your USB stack it is not down to Elbox, and unfairly penalises users that have already registered or would like to register posiedon. To blaim them without proof for the hack is childish not to mention silly, and makes you out to be paranoid (which i am sure you are not).
It would be nice to think that you will reconsider for the users sake. (Please note that I am not doing this on my behalf as I have an A1 and await OS4 with its stack). Instead I am suggesting that you reconsider for the benefit of the users, yourself, and the Amgia community.
Rassilon
-
xeron: but i guess you aint a mediator betatester right? , the new drivers is beeing worked on..
anyway it seems pretty stupid if they do this, people buy what ever hw they want and if its made to not work with other on evil purposes then its time i raise my sword....
grr
-
so now there is 2 options right?
elbox makes the new stack, this stack will have to be registered , so we who regged poseidon will have to pay yet again to get a stack... or?
option 2:
elbox makes the stack for free to the allready regged spider owners.
(and in this new stack + all drivers there might be some E3b anti code?, please let us know asap becasuse this is getting rather annoying..)
-
understand your concern over the anti-piracy code, but as it was removed by Elbox that should have been the end of the issue. Your insistance of a public apology, (when no one had accidently activated the anti-piracy code) was unecessary, and a poor excuse for removing support.
I agree.
-
tjaoz wrote:
@T_Bone
!!!!
Why?
OK, once again:
My guess is this is a simple response to the Hodges' move.
Oh, you mean instead of just apologising to the customers, which would have fixed everything. Way to go Elbox.
Stopping Poseidon registration for Spider users promotes other (IMHO obsolete and overpriced) USB Amiga cards. Hodges agreed with Elbox to be always neutral to users of different hardware USB Amiga solutions. Hodges move clearly breaks this agreement.
Elbox broke the agreement, when they broke the law. End of story. Elbox don't have a "right" to Poseiden. Poseiden belongs to Chris.
Repeat after me...
"What Elbox did is ILLEGAL"
"What Elbox did is ILLEGAL"
"What Elbox did is ILLEGAL"
You seriously think Chris should be neutral to an ILLEGAL driver?
Now Elbox helps Hodges in restoring balance and regaining neutrality for various Amiga USB solutions.
You mean instead of just apologising, which is all Chris asked them to do.
I'm kind of glad you keep bringing this up. People who might not have known about all this crooked crap learn alot every time you try "defending" them. You are Elbox's worst PR nightmare. You keep this up, and you'll probably have even Elbox begging you to keep quiet, so they arn't embarassed by these threads.
-
i want an answer and that NOW, i give a #### about the malicious code in spider driver because it would never hurt me anyway, if it had then it would have trashed my system ages ago...nothing ever works here :D
Like I said before, its all untrue about E3B cards makig the Meiator not works or do any harm to your system. I am using a Catweasel and an Algor USB card (since my spider is useless to me now) with no problems at all.
-
> As for the anti-piracy code it was an easy get out clause,
> that enabled CH to cancel the contract.
Chris never *wanted* to cancel the contract. his whole mission was to unite USB support so there wouldn't be 12 standards.
Even when the whole trojan incident happened, Chris *could* have walked away from the contract, but he didn't, he asked them to apologise, which was a VERY easy thing to do for Elbox. Chris didn't even have to do that. Elbox had a way out, a damned easy one at that, and didn't take it.
How much easier could Chris have made it for Elbox? An apology is the LEAST one could have asked.
> Elbox removed the code and things were ok for a while,
> then CH decided out of the blue that he didn't want to
> support Elbox any more.
Out of the blue? No, he gave Elbox a choice, either apologise for the illegal driver that they were caught red handed with, or he'd drop support. Elbox, of their own free will, chose not to do so.
I realise many simply don't care that the drivers were illegal, as they make excellent hardware, but weather or not you care is beside the point. The drivers were illegal, and Chris didn't even need to give them the choice at all, he would have been fully within his rights to simply drop Elbox support unconditionally at that point.
Elbox could have cleared this whole thing up by simply floating a "We're Sorry" to the mailing list. We're talking about pressing about 10 keys on the keyboard here, not exactly pulling teeth you'd think.
-
t_bone: aint you out of line now? , it seems you never owned a elbox product oh and that comment about 12 usb standards , well there will be atleast 2 from now on or maybe i should say 1 since Poseidon is obviously only for E3b products and this is yet another example of what went wrong with p96/cgx , pup/wup etc.
i am atleast 110% sure i wont by any hw from e3b until i know for sure it wont do my setup any harm, and for that i need to wait for mediator updates which should come pretty soon i guess.
i know that it works with the drivers we have now, but what happens with the next updates, lets see and as i said i wont buy anything before i know.
i simply dislike all of this thread, it shows what monopolism is and how its done and now it seems elbox is willing to play a mudfight against e3b and Ch , i dont take any side of this but i am not willingly giving up my mediator with the hw around it just because of some cry babies in both camps.
this is simply STUPID! and i hope elbox never will do this.
-
Rassilon wrote:
(when no one had accidently activated the anti-piracy code)
This is impossible to prove since the person wouldn't know that the Elbox software was the culprit.
-
xeron:well i normally dont loose my rdbs , last time i ever did so was maybe 3 years ago, and i have been a spider user for quite a while, and a mediator user for longer.
and to prove what did it if it happened, how can you prove it was elboxs code that did it then? and not something from some anti elbox people maybe?.
sorry but i am really fed up here atm.
-
@T_Bone
Even when the whole trojan incident happened, Chris *could* have walked away from the contract, but he didn't, he asked them to apologise, which was a VERY easy thing to do for Elbox. Chris didn't even have to do that. Elbox had a way out, a damned easy one at that, and didn't take it.
I think you should look up the meaning of the word trojan, as it doesn't describe Elbox's anti-piracy code.
We both know why Elbox did not appologise
- They didn't believe what they did was wrong, after all they were trying to safegaurd their investment.
- Apologising is admission of guilt leaving them open to being sued.
Now I'm not saying that what they did was right, but they removed the code from the driver, the code that was the cause of CH concern. THERE problem solved, any further requests were for his own gratification.
If one person can come forward with the legitimate and proveable occurence of the Elbox code going awry (without them hacking it!) then we may start to get somewhere. But until then there is no point in Elbox appologising for something that as far as we know hasn't happened.
Rassilon
-
lempkee wrote:
xeron:well i normally dont loose my rdbs
Neither do I. I'm not saying it happens all the time. Far from it. I'm just saying that you can't say its never happened, because its just not possible to say either way.
and to prove what did it if it happened, how can you prove it was elboxs code that did it then?
I'm not saying it is or isn't possible to figure out what killed your RDB. My only points are:
1. Elbox were wrong to include the code. It was illegal, and it was wrong. What if due to human error the checking code was broken in a future update (had the code been left in there)?
2. Nobody can say that the code has or has not been triggered by accident. It has almost certainly never ever happened, but people DO get struck by lighning and people DO win the lottery. It could have been triggered, but the person won't know what happened. All they'd know is that their hard disk stopped working.
Elbox are supposed to have removed the code now, but their reputation in my eyes is tarnished by the whole affair.
-
Rassilon wrote:
But until then there is no point in Elbox appologising for something that as far as we know hasn't happened.
He wasn't asking them to apologise for the code triggering, he was asking them to apologise for the codes existance, which is known and proven. I think Chris' problem was Elbox maintaining that they had done nothing wrong.
-
Hi Xeron,
you wrote:
He wasn't asking them to apologise for the code triggering, he was asking them to apologise for the codes existance, which is known and proven. I think Chris' problem was Elbox maintaining that they had done nothing wrong.
I understand that, and I wrote in a previous message they won't do that because it would leave them open to legal action.
As I said before I don't condone their practise, but I understand why they did it, and as far as we know no-one has been a victim of it. (Yes it would be very difficult to prove anyway)
But I know that you have developed lots of software, so you should have experienced the odd developmental crash ;-) has any triggered the elbox code to your knowledge?
I think its highly unlikely that anyone could trigger it unknowingly without resorting to unscroupulous means.
I just don't see why the public appology was such a big thing to CH.
Rassilon
-
Rassilon wrote:
and as far as we know no-one has been a victim of it. (Yes it would be very difficult to prove anyway)
Aaaarrghh... That whole point is irrelevent since it doesn't excuse the code, and its impossible to prove either way. Stop bringing that up as if it makes it ok! THAT is the thing that bothers me.
has any triggered the elbox code to your knowledge?
Whats that got to do with anything?
I think its highly unlikely that anyone could trigger it unknowingly without resorting to unscroupulous means.
I know. I agree. This does not excuse its existance.
I just don't see why the public appology was such a big thing to CH.
I think he just wanted them to admit they were wrong.
-
Look, if anyone's machine was ####ed and and had
sensitive, not recoverable, data in it and he got pissed off, he could have sued Elbox AND Chris.
Chris would have to proove that he was innocent in
court. He eventually would get out of it but would be
harmed by the costs of the lawsuit.
-
1) He did not switch off anything. You can still use the version YOU BOUGHT THE KEY FOR!
2) There was never a real agreement with Elbox.
BTW, do you have any explainations to the earlier
#### Elbox pulled on companies?
VFD, the P96 team, Hyperion? No? Too bad...
-
Now I'm not saying that this is the same situation, but look at the last time Elbox had a contract with a driver supplier.... CGFX..... and look what happened, another company nullified there contract by arranging an exclusive contract.
--
They had NO contract with VFD...
-
Hi Xeron,
as I said in my previous posts I don't condone their methods.
I just understand why they wanted to include an anti-piracy deterrent, and why they haven't appologised ie.e legal problems
With regard to whether you had managed to trigger the code through programming experiments accidentaly - I was trying to show that if a programmer (who by nature would have more crashes than a normal user) hasn't triggered the code, then it would be highly unlikely that a user could.
Rassilon
-
by AmiGR on 2003/11/19 15:44:04
They had NO contract with VFD...
Well thats untrue. Elbox provided Frank Mariak with an A1200 tower complete with Mediator, Voodoo3 card and development docs. They did that because they had a contract. I don't know whether it was written or verbal, I imagine it was written (as in email)
Rassilon
-
@Rassilon
>I understand your concern over the anti-piracy code, but as it was removed by Elbox that should have been the end of the issue. Your insistance of a public apology, (when no one had accidently activated the anti-piracy code) was unecessary, and a poor excuse for removing support.
Actually, if you have truely read the soap opera, the stop of registrations was NOT an issue about apologies for the RDB issue (except for implicitely calling me a liar), but their denial to clearly state on their websites and advertisments that the software necessary to use the Spider card (Poseidon USB Stack) is NOT shipped with the Spider and is NOT registered, thus potential buyers being maliciously deceived (and me getting mails from angry users). Moreover, they were promoting their product with the features that it does not have per se, but only with Poseidon installed. In fact, they copy & pasted the poseidon feature list. I told them to remove it (copyright violation). They denied it. They treated me like sh*t. They even claimed that they did not need a registered copy of Poseidon to develop their drivers, thus never registered it. Stopping the registration process was my only way to attract attention to this issue. The only thing that eventually would hurt them. Unfortunately, I was wrong: These bunch of [insert your favourite word here] did not stop selling the Spider or deliver their own product, but actively continued to promote it, intentionally not mentioning that registrations have ceased. They just don't care what happens to the user, as long as they can sell their stuff.
So, as the users kept supporting Elb*x and their exceptional moral concepts, things will change again soon.
-
@Chris Hodges
What confuses me in this matter, is that you went along with their bundling option for a good while before you requested that they highlight the unregistered nature of the version of poseidon that was available.
If I was being cynical I would ask why it suited you originally but not now?
As for using the feature list, while again I can understand you wanting to protect your property, their marketing of the spider was netting YOU registrations. So you shot yourself in the foot?!?
If they were to market the Spider card as- A USB2 card - it wouldn't sell many because it doesn't mention any benefits.
By marketing the card with the featurelist of the available USB stack it seems much more attractive. So why would you want Elbox to sell fewer Spider cards? It would mean you get less registrations. It doesn't seem (on the surface at least) to add up.
Rassilon
-
They had a verbal agreement, not something remotely as bining as a contract. DCE offered him
a contract to do something under payment and he
accepted it.
-
If they were to market the Spider card as- A USB2 card - it wouldn't sell many because it doesn't mention any benefits.
That's Elbox's problem, not Chris Hodges'.
By marketing the card with the featurelist of the available USB stack it seems much more attractive.
Uh-huh, but by marketing the card with the featurelist of the available USB stack you're deceiving potential customers as to the benefits they get by buying the card.
If I told you that you could buy my car and that it had a V8 engine and certain bhp, 6-CD changer, and certain add-ons like a chrome gear stick handle and bucket seats: BUT ONLY IF YOU FIT THEM YOURSELF AFTERWARDS ON YOUR OWN TIME AND MONEY, you wouldn't buy it, would you?
Elbox refrain to mention it, so you could expect purchasers to do so in good faith and expect to receive said features. As it stands, they do not, and they had to spend more money on Poseidon.
So why would you want Elbox to sell fewer Spider cards? It would mean you get less registrations.
Sometimes the money received from registrations does not adequately cover the stress and hassle of dealing with companies like Elbox. Sometimes it just plain isn't worth it.
=Neko=
-
@Neko
If CH wants to make any money from Elbox Spider registrations then it is in his interests to let them use the poseidon feature list.
As it was CH who approached Elbox to use the Posiedon stack, and they produced the drivers, and indeed he would also benefit from sales of Spider cards through Poseidon registration he's done pretty well so far.
If I told you that you could buy my car and that it had a V8 engine and certain bhp, 6-CD changer, and certain add-ons like a chrome gear stick handle and bucket seats: BUT ONLY IF YOU FIT THEM YOURSELF AFTERWARDS ON YOUR OWN TIME AND MONEY, you wouldn't buy it, would you?
Uh-huh, if I told you that you could buy a DVD from me and I told you that you can skip between the different sections of a film, BUT ONLY IF YOU BUY A DVD PLAYER, you wouldn't buy it, would you? - Oh yeah thats how it works in real life.
Sometimes things are quite as clear cut as we would all like to believe!
Rassilon
-
I believe, if you read the soap opra, that the initial idea was that the spider was to include the cost for the poseidon stack. If Elbox/C.H. could have come to terms on that, all of this would have been avoided.
However, they couldn't come to terms on such. Right now, no one wins--Not Elbox, not Chris, and certainly not the users. At this point, I don't know if there is a way to mediate the situation (no pun intended). This is worsened by pirates posting "how to crack poseidon" and some of the other dubious activites floating around.
-
They are not really happy with Pegasos having only USB 1.1 support while Spider is a USB 2.0 controller.
Well, I'm happy, I bought Zorro2 board to my A1200 instead of Mediator, mainly becouse Z2 isn't Elbox product, which means that developers can support it...
Everyone surely knows, what would likely happen, if someone wanted to support Mediator by, for example, adding Mediator support to OpenPCI...
(Or we don't know, as it wasn't added, due to legal threats...)
I wonder, if I could have been able to use even MorphOS with Mediator... Well, no use thinking such things, as I chose better solution back then...
And I needed to add only Ethernet and I/O card (X-Surf and A2232, had HyperCom3 for a while, but it didn't suit my needs)
But now I'm happy Pegasos user, with USB _with_ drivers "built-in" the OS itself.
-EDIT-
About the illegal RDB trashing code, I didn't really have problems with that...
But the way they handled it, ("It's not there", "ok, it's there, but it's not illegal", "We updated our drivers (The RDB trasher was still there)")
All that instead of "the right way", that would have been "We're terribly sorry, the code has been removed now."
That made me really proud unprivileged user :-)
-
platon42 wrote:
These bunch of [insert your favourite word here] did not stop selling the Spider or deliver their own product, but actively continued to promote it, intentionally not mentioning that registrations have ceased. They just don't care what happens to the user, as long as they can sell their stuff.
Have a look at Elbox`s Spider II page (http://www.elbox.com/products/spider_usb_20_pci.html)
When it comes to software, they say...
The software support for particular USB device is provided by appropriate Poseidon class driver.
Still Elbox fail to mention that for the last 3 1/2 months ,their customers will only get a USB stack that works in demo mode only !
And back when the RDB killer news came out, Elbox first denied it.. then a couple of days later said it was removed, then called everyone who hadn`t bought a Mediator "underpriviledged"...........
Who the hell do they think they are? Anyone would think they didn`t want any new customers.
-
@xeron
1. Tjaoz bought Poseidon, but has been denied updates. This is not illegal, most products are sold that way by default. I am a registered AmIRC 2.x user. I would have to pay again to get AmIRC 3.x. This is legal. The fact that other Poseidon users are granted free updates is a matter of courtesy, NOT law.
You are wrong.
Hodges invalidated my keyfile in the publicly available update of the Poseidon stack, for which I paid him 6 months earlier.
Even if he has written in the licence that he is not obliged to make bugfixes, if he is making such bugfixes in public, he must not ban access to them to selected clients according to his whims.
What Hodges has done is discrimination, illegal in European law.
-
@platon42
As long as nobody has these "new" drivers, I consider everything Rat says as FUD.
How can you know who has them and who has not? Want to get them from some 'friendly user'?
I have them, and I know that I'm not the only one who received them.
BTW. FUD is exacly what you spread about Elbox.
You are a master in FUD.
-
@T_Bone
Oh, you mean instead of just apologising to the customers, which would have fixed everything. Way to go Elbox.
I do not expect apology from Elbox.
I want apology from Chris Hodges.
I'm sure that many Mediator users feel the same.
But you probably are not a Mediator user, so you need apology from Elbox...
For what? Lack of USB 2.0 support for your platform?
Elbox broke the agreement, when they broke the law.
Sorry, the law does not work in this way that it is you who decides who broke and who did not break the law. The only place where breaking of the law may be found out is the court.
Public accusing of someone running commercial business of breaking law, in order to harm his reputation, is slander.
You have just done that.
According to your own theory, you are already guilty!
Repeat after me...
"What Elbox did is ILLEGAL"
"What Elbox did is ILLEGAL"
"What Elbox did is ILLEGAL"
Replace Elbox with T_Bone and repeat many times.
-
T_Bone
> Elbox removed the code and things were ok for a while,
> then CH decided out of the blue that he didn't want to
> support Elbox any more.
Out of the blue? No, he gave Elbox a choice, either
The choice?
All terrorist go this way. They give someone a chance to meet their demand. When someone accepts this, they offer new demands.
Hodges behaves like a terrorist who always wants something new. Read Hodges' 'soap opera' carefully and you will see it.
I wrote about this Hodges-terrorist behaviour in the Mediator ML here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16577 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16577)
-
@xeron
I think he just wanted them to admit they were wrong.
Are you sure that's all?
Here is the original public set of 'requests' placed by Hodges:
a) admit, that the code was in their driver,
b) admit, that they have constantly lied to the users,
d) have placed a public apology for the first time in their life,
c) and have removed any malicious code.
Please note that Hodges publicly release these 'requests' AFTER Elbox sent out new driver versions.
I wrote about this timing here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16577 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16577)
-
@AmiGR
They had NO contract with VFD...
:-)
So, what is this press release about?
in the VFD site: http://www.vgr.com/mediator/pressrelease1.txt (http://tinyurl.com/vq4r)
in the Elbox site: http://elbox.com/news_00_07_24.html (http://elbox.com/news_00_07_24.html)
-
@platon42
Actually, if you have truely read the soap opera, the stop of registrations was NOT an issue about apologies for the RDB issue (except for implicitely calling me a liar), but their denial to clearly state on their websites and advertisments that the software necessary to use the Spider card (Poseidon USB Stack) is NOT shipped with the Spider and is NOT registered, thus potential buyers being maliciously deceived (and me getting mails from angry users).
Yes, a real terrorist like you, always has new demands!
Now you want to say that Elbox does not inform that a user has to buy Poseidon to use Spider in Amiga.
You are of course well aware that your accusation that Elbox does not inform about it is untrue.
With your lies you are trying to mislead those who do not care about visiting the Elbox website to check the facts.
You lied similarly in this (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2574) discussion in amiga.org.
Elbox informs very precisely in the Spider II page (http://www.buy.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=705S20) about what you need to use Spider:
--
Requirements:
- One free PCI slot
- Mediator Multimedia CD (for Mediator based systems)
- Poseidon stack (for Amithlon and Mediator based systems)
- Windows 2000 or Windows XP (for PC systems)
- Mac X OS (for Mac systems)
--
From this it is clear that apart from one free PCI slot you have to have a Poseidon to work with Amiga or Amithlon, Windows 2000 (or XP) for work with PC, and MacX OS for work with Mac. Neither a free PCI slot nor any of USB stacks or operating systems with a USB stack are not bundled with Spider. And Amiga computer and AmigaOS are not bundled, either.
Moreover, they were promoting their product with the features that it does not have per se, but only with Poseidon installed. In fact, they copy & pasted the poseidon feature list. I told them to remove it (copyright violation).
You are really funny.
You are all the time writing about the same text:
'Note: The Poseidon USB Stack is a software solution that unleashes the possibilities of the Universal Serial Bus (USB) and the devices with USB interface, ranging from mice, keyboards, tablets, joysticks, printers, scanners, webcams, digicams, flash card readers, zip drives, floppy disk drives, harddisks, memory sticks, ethernet adapters, scanners and audio adapters to less common things like power supplies, GPS location devices or finger print readers. '
I do not know who first wrote this text, you or Elbox Press Dept, but it was included in your bilateral Press Announcement: http://www.elbox.com/news_02_09_11B.html (http://www.elbox.com/news_02_09_11B.html).
It means that this note is the official information about Poseidon, which you agreed with Elbox. It must be clear that they use a text agreed with you and are not writing their own stories about Poseidon. No copyright restrictions apply here, obviously. This type of texts are not covered by copyright law.
By the way, this text details more USB standard features than the features of your stack. I have not heard that Poseidon offers support for
power supplies, GPS location devices or finger print readers.
Or maybe you are so mad that you think you have copyright on the USB standard features?
They treated me like sh*t.
Maybe in that sense only that they try to keep distans from you :-)
They even claimed that they did not need a registered copy of Poseidon to develop their drivers,
In the 'soap opera' you yourself are stating in one of the messages to Elbox that the keys are not necessary for developement of new drivers only, but even to their tests!
thus never registered it.
You have given free developer keys to them, right?
Stopping the registration process was my only way to attract attention to this issue.
You behave like a child.
-
@AmiGR
DCE offered him a contract to do something under payment and he accepted it.
Let's call a spade a spade:
DCE bribed Mariak to not support Mediator.
-
@bhoggett
The person who posted the how-to-crack guide is not an Amithlon "fun" and is most likely not a user either. His name is certainly not Dan Gaines and he is not in the UK either, despite the e-mail address used.
The person in question joined the mailing list less than a week before posting the crack, and that was the only post he ever made. It was cross posted to the amithlonopen, amithlon and Mediator mailing lists. The purpose was simply to damage Chris Hodges and nothing else.
So, considering that you tell lies about what happened and try to blame genuine users, and considering that "Dan Gaines" posted in bad English which showed it was not his native laguage,
You do not have any problems to meet all the above conditions. What is the problem for a native English speaker in writing a message with language mistakes? Your explanations show more and more that you could have been involved in the 'how-to-crack-poseidon' guide.
As for Hodges making Poseidon available with ArakAttack, this was always going to happen in good time, as was posted by the ArakAttack author when he released the driver.
ArakAttack has been available for some time in the VMC website, and the possibility of registering Poseidon for ArakAttack users is still nonexistent. What was the sense of making ArrakAttack available before the possibility of registering Poseidon? Is Poseidon not necessary for ArakAttack operation. Maybe you wanted to force Hodges to stop delaying the Poseidon registration? Or maybe you even wanted to force him to provide OEM licences for ArakAttak?
As far as I'm concerned Elbox are a bunch of virus writers, no different at all from the scum who write all those Outlook worms. It doesn't matter why they did it, only that they did.
You think Elbox is sending you viruses?
You should see a doctor. :-)
You do not have entitlement to Poseidon 2. End of story. You paid for Poseidon v1 and that's what you got. Hodges never "switched off" your key, he just removed it from the list of keys supported by the updates. Unless you have a written guarantee that you are entitled to free updates for life, you have no case.
(..)
Now Elbox using their updated drivers to disable competitors' hardware from existing users is another matter. That is unquestionably an abuse of consumer rights, and if I was an affected customer I would definitely make an official complaint against them.
:-)
You change your viewpoint very fast!
Changed position for writing this message? Where is your head now?
Maybe you should write:
Now Elbox just removed E3B users from the list of users supported by the updates of their software. Unless you have a written guarantee that you are entitled to free updates for life.
-
So, what is this press release about?
in the VFD site: http://www.vgr.com/mediator/pressrelease1.txt
in the Elbox site: http://elbox.com/news_00_07_24.html
So, where's the mention of a contract? :lol:
-
I'll respect the first one of the combatants (CH, Elbox, I really don't care which) who stands up and says, "What's done is done. What's gone is gone. Now let's put this crap behind us, put our egos in neutral and move forward for the benefit of everyone." That's what it's going to take.
If it's gone beyond this, then there's really not enough left to have respect for.
-
@DaveP
I dont see Tjaoz trolling on here, maybe it is elsewhere that is being referred to. I see him conducting himself civilly despite being attacked by other forum users.
Insenuating that bhoggett cracked Poseidon is
your idea of civility and not being a troll?
-
Dear Rat,
you are like a bad commercial on a home order television channel, always repeating and repeating the same stuff. I wonder who will buy it :-D
It is really funny, I could have predicted nearly every reply from you. As stated earlier, most of the time you take some keywords that have been releated to you and turn them upside down and say "No!!! It's YOU that [is a liar|a pirate|has cracked poseidon]!!!". Hilarious! It is rather impressive how skewed your view of the real world is. It is funny to see you calling me a (real) terrorist! :-D
I wonder if you will ever realise, that you are doing NO good in promoting Elb*x, but the opposite?
And no, please don't reply (oh, I forgot that you're probably anankastic, sorry, do what you cannot resist to, no matter how ridiculous it might be). This thread is already full of sh*t thanks to you. But that is the natural way, whenever there's a Rat involved. Twisters like you are natural disasters, aren't they?
-
@-D-
Take a look again. Bill H accuses him without substance and
the counter accusation came back, I thought to make the point
that one could j'accuse anyone. If A accusing B is trolling then
you are also calling Bill a troll, which I don't think is valid.
Accusation:
It wouldn't surpise me at all to find that the coward who posted a "how-to-crack-Poseidon" guide on the amithlonopen list was you.
Retort:
Maybe this is you 'who posted a "how-to-crack-Poseidon" guide on the amithlonopen list' to allow using Poseidon with ArakAttack without the registration key?
Dave.
-
If you think the guy is is civil and not a troll,
be my guest. I simply disagree.
-
@-D-
You pointed out a specific instance to me which required
explanation.
I happen to think Chris Hodges doesn't come out of all this
particularly well either, the round of emails and the
recent conspiracy theories seem to be the product of
a deap seated emotional hatred rather than a rational
contract dispute.
I don't have a stake in either party, I don't particularly give a
flying one about USB on the Amiga or Elbox.
I see yet another bit of anti-competitive politicking and a little
bit of bullying going on and more than a little bit of
"I'll take my ball home now" crap.
Sorry but the whole thing looked at from the outside
looks incredibly juvenile, as do many of the personalities
involved. Bit like the whole market.
If you want to disagree, be my guest.
Dave.
-
@DaveP
>If you want to disagree, be my guest.
No, I think now we are in complete agreement (for
once).
-
@DaveP
Take a look again. Bill H accuses him without substance and the counter accusation came back, I thought to make the point that one could j'accuse anyone. If A accusing B is trolling then you are also calling Bill a troll, which I don't think is valid.
While my accusation is admittedly based on nothing more than circumstantial evidence, his reply contains verifiable untruths.
Why would someone wanting to force CH to support ArakAttack on Amithlon cross-post the crack to the Mediator list? Why would I use a fake UK identity and then post in particularly bad English? Why would anyone feel they have to "force" CH to do something that he was going to do anyway, as announced in the ArakAttack release message?
I think everyone can see why Rat would post the crack, but can anyone see why I would do so? If you do, let me know, because I can't think of any such reason myself.
You're right that the dispute does not come across as terribly professional on either side. However, I can't blame CH for his actions. Elbox exposed him to potential legal action from any users that may be damaged by their "protection" scheme, not to mention proving beyond doubt that they employ dubious business practices. The only natural reaction for CH would be to distance himself from them as fast as possible, and that includes removing any semblance of support for their products. Bernie was put in the same position by H&P and no choice in his reaction either. The users are the ones to really suffer, of course, but their contract is with the company whose product they bought, in the above cases Elbox and H&P.
H&P are effectively out of the Amiga market now. How long before Elbox go the same way, since neither AmigaOne or Pegasos users have any need for them?
-
Why would someone wanting to force CH to support ArakAttack on Amithlon cross-post the crack to the Mediator list? Why would I use a fake UK identity and then post in particularly bad English? Why would anyone feel they have to "force" CH to do something that he was going to do anyway, as announced in the ArakAttack release message?
I assumed that these were made in the spirit of showing how
spurious the allegations against him were by example.
Dave.
-
For those interested I have contacted the author of the Thylacene USB stack and cards as well as Elbox to see if Elbox would be interested in writing a second set of drivers for this stack. Its a nice stack and well worth it. The good thing about this is the OS4 USB stack and this one are one in the same. The author is very interested it sounds like.
-
> For what? Lack of USB 2.0 support for your platform?
Yeah sure, especially since the all mighty USB 2 Solution from Elbox isn`t one ditch faster then the Algor ROTLF.
Want me to show the official benchmark from the Amiga+ magazine issue 05/2003 page 16
Sure there must be some code in Poseidon that drags down the Spider 2 on purpose :roflmao: