Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: harrison on February 17, 2010, 02:28:45 PM
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I'm pleased to announce the launch of the survey:
The Top 100 Amiga Games of All Time!
Our goal is to get as many Amiga fan to take part as we can, so we can create the definitive Top 100 list of Amiga games of all time.
You will be asked during the survey to select your personal Top 10 Amiga games from a list of over 300 games. Each person's Top 10 will then be combined to decide the final Top 100 games list, which will be published once the survey is concluded.
Due to the total number of games released for the Amiga over the years, we decided it would not be possible to include them all. Instead, using a selection process, we picked the most popular and best games released for the Amiga to offer a choice of 300 games for you to pick from. We hope all of your favourites are included, and apologise if we have missed any out.
Please visit http://top100amigagames.classicemu.com to take part.
Notes
You have to register to take part in this survey, and will be emailed a unique access url to take part once you have. Your registration details will not be used for anything other than this survey, as the registration is only to ensure that each person taking part only submits their game choices once.
On the second page of the survey we are asking additional information about each person taking the survey, but you do not have to complete these questions if you do not wish to. However these questions will help us build a better picture of the Amiga fans still supporting this great system today.
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Voted. Lots of good games still left out from top10 I'm afraid
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Voted. Lots of good games still left out from top10 I'm afraid
Yeah. I didn't see Civ, Myst, Supercars and a lot of others.
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VOTED! Great idea.
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If Pirates! is not there (for the reason mentioned above) then should I vote to Pirates! Gold? The problem is that I never owned the latter but had great fun playing the former!
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There isn't Great Courts 2, I've spent so much time with that...
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I voted though it was missing some great games. How can you put Crazy Cars II on the list (pretty crap) and not III?!
Most of the good'uns was on there so I just voted for what there was on the list though I would have preferred to select 10 them mix them around accordingly personally.
Otherwise I thought it was a neat idea. Would be interesting to compare with the Lemon Amiga site of games as voted by the world public.
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Good initiative ;). Ive voted, even though some of my fav games were not in the list.
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You have to register to take part in this survey, and will be emailed a unique access url to take part once you have.
I'm sorry, but I'm certainly not going to create yet another account for a *poll*. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
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I'm sorry, but I'm certainly not going to create yet another account for a *poll*. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
You don't get an account as such. You just put in your details and it emails you a URL. No usernames or passwords to remember.
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Voted!
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I voted though it was missing some great games. How can you put Crazy Cars II on the list (pretty crap) and not III?!
Wasn't Lamborghini American Challenge there instead??
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Got as far as seeing the registration and thought :effort:
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I'm sorry, but I'm certainly not going to create yet another account for a *poll*. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
It isn't an account. The registration process is to ensure that each person only submits into the survey once to make it fair for everyone and to try and give a truer reflection of voting.
All the survey's registration process does is assign a unique "ID" to your registered details, and emails you a direct link containing your unique ID, to take part in the survey.
Regarding games missed from the survey. As we said, we know many people would be disappointed with a favourite game being missed from the list. We will be running updates to this survey yearly and will open it up to nominations across all Amiga communities for the next one, so you can all nominate games for inclusion in next year's voting. Hopefully that will please you all.
Also we have another survey planned once this one is concluded, which will be to find out what your favourite games are by genre. Selecting 5 games per genre in the survey. Hopefully that will please those of you who didn't find your favourites in this initial survey.
Any suggestions for future surveys or how we can improve them next time please, so that we can create better surveys for you as we continue.
Already this survey is proving popular, with over 160 completed submissions and over 290 people registering to take part.
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Where is Capital Punishment?
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Come on.. where was Deuteros (or Millenium 2.2) ??
Didnt Deuteros score 90% in AF's review. It's a classic in anyones book :(
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We performed a closed noimation selection process for the final games list. Obviously different people have very different favourite games, and some peoples favourites were not within the games nominated for inclusion by our selection group.
For the next survey we will be opening up the initial selection process to everyone, so you can all nominate games for inclusion. Hopefully this will make everyone happier.
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We performed a closed noimation selection process for the final games list. Obviously different people have very different favourite games, and some peoples favourites were not within the games nominated for inclusion by our selection group.
For the next survey we will be opening up the initial selection process to everyone, so you can all nominate games for inclusion. Hopefully this will make everyone happier.
Oh I see so its really a "Pick YOUR favourite from a list of OUR favourites" poll?
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Where is the sense to discuss the choosed games for this survey? I mean...what shall they do? Spend more and more time to make a poll to find favourites for a poll or what? They choosed 100 Games and everyone has to accept that. These discussions are leading to nowhere as the survey is still running.
The idea was great, the effort is pretty much appreciated and the survey is working perfect in all aspects.
Everyone who's not satisfied with the games in that list can try to make an own survey and spend all the time to realize it. You'll see that there will always be some people moaning, as there were a lot more of only 100 great games for the Amiga.
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Yeah, I agree. Some nice games might be missing, but majority is there and the idea is still great.
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@Jon Hare. Thank you for your words. You summed it up perfectly. Although there are actual over 300 games in the selection list.
And as I said previously, we will be running the survey yearly from now on, and will be allowing nominations from the whole Amiga community for games to be added to next years edition.
This survey is our first attempt, so we can only learn and improve on it by everyone posting positive feedback, with ideas on how it can be improved in the future.
Also remember. Just because you personally have a favourite game doesn't mean it would end up in the Top 100, even if it were in the final list. Currently we have had over 300 people submitting voting to the survey, and even the game currently in 100th position needed the equivalent of 4 1st place votes to reach that position.
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I'm sorry, but I'm certainly not going to create yet another account for a *poll*. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
Let me clue you all into a website that will help you from creating a million email accounts for things like this.
http://www.mailinator.com
It let's you send email from any user @ the domains they host. It works with most sites that require an email. BE AWARE: This is not private email so don't sign up for pay accounts with it. You can see how easily it works by going to the site.
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@Jon Hare. Thank you for your words. You summed it up perfectly. Although there are actual over 300 games in the selection list.
This survey is our first attempt, so we can only learn and improve on it by everyone posting positive feedback, with ideas on how it can be improved in the future.
Also remember. Just because you personally have a favorite game doesn't mean it would end up in the Top 100, even if it were in the final list.
I loved the idea of the quiz, why not make a couple of the cells, write in. That way missed games can be typed in by the users. I didn't see Starcraft on there, my brothers and I logged many hours slagging each other in space.
Yes, our favorites might not be everyone else's but who's to know, if they aren't even on the list. <] ;^ D
-Nyle
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Thank you to everyone how has taken part in the survey so far. We have had a great response with over 400 submissions so far and a total of over 600 people registering to take part.
We will be keeping the survey running for a little longer and will bring it to a close in March.
And thank you all for your feedback. This is the first survey we have run and I understand the frustrations for those of you who did not find your personal favourites in the selection of games we provided, but we did have to reduce the huge number of games released over the years for the Amiga down to a manageable size for the final survey.
We will take this feedback on board for the next survey we are designing. Sadly we cannot add additional games to the current survey or offer the ability to add more via blank fields. This would be unfair for the many who had already submitted their votes into the survey. However, when we run the survey again next year we will give you all the opportunity to nominate additional games for inclusion.
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Voting for the Top 100 will be closing next Monday 8th March, so if you haven't got your votes in yet please be quick.
Thank you to everyone who has so far taken part and voted for their favourite games. We have now had over 500 votes submitted, so the final results will be constructed from the votes of a lot of Amiga fans.
We will also be sending a reminder email this week to everyone who has registered to take part, but has not yet completed their voting and submitted their entry, to give them a final chance to submit their votes.
If possible we hope to have the results compiled and ready to be released towards the end of next week.
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I'm sorry, but I'm certainly not going to create yet another account for a *poll*. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
Man there are a lot of paranoid people here these days.:(
I sure added my two cents, for what it's worth...
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Hi,
Unfortunately, the only game I could objectively rank as number one is not in the preselection : "Maupiti Island" from Lankhor. Since to my knowledge the Amiga version of Maupiti is the only video game I have played that is both artistically one of the most ambitious and technically one of the closest to perfection, I think it would have been necessary to include it in order this preselection to make sense. Especially since the latter is not very credible, as it includes some vulgar and ugly games that haven't much intrinsic value.
Unless the only goal of this survey is to gather personal favourites, but then it should not offer any preselection at all, and it's only a sociological survey -- it should not be called "The Top 100 list of Amiga games of all time" but "The 100 most popular Amiga games among Amiga forums visitors in 2010"...
And the goal itself is not clear : the same page says "vote on and discover what you think the best Amiga games really are", then "Pick your favourite Amiga games from the list below". The first sentence calls for an objective judgement, while the second calls for a subjective judgement, and that can make two very different Top 10. For example, I will put "Another World" in my Top 10 if I answer the first sentence, but I won't if I answer the second...
In conclusion, I'm afraid this survey will well need revision and clarification so that its results can be usable and correspond to its goal. I remember taking part in a similar survey on another website a few years ago, maybe "The Alltime Amiga Games Top 50" whose site is now down. That survey was more valid : it was clear that you had to submit the "best" games, not your favourite games, and you could select any Amiga game by copying the titles of your choice from the - huge - list and pasting them into the survey form.
I will be happy to help if I can.
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Over analysis of the introductory text I wrote by some margin.
Just because a specific game is viewed as the best game they have personally played, this only reflects that person's personal view. This might not be the same view as anyone else.
If someone thinks a game is one of the best on the Amiga, surely it would also be one of their favourites?
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Hi,
Thank you for your reaction.
Just because a specific game is viewed as the best game they have personally played, this only reflects that person's personal view.
Since man is capable of knowledge and consciousness, it may not only reflect personal view : a personal view may be worked on in order to get closer to the object's qualities than illusion. It is such a work which entitled me to make that assertion : that's why I briefly justified it. If that's not enough, I can demonstrate it -- that it is absurd not to include "Maupiti Island" to the preselection, and also that some other missing games (such as "Super Cars" and "Budokan") have more intrinsic value than a number of games from the preselection.
This might not be the same view as anyone else.
Naturally ! Since your goal is to "create the definitive Top 100 list of Amiga games of all time", a list that serves the games and may serve as a reference in the future, that's the reason why my purpose is to highlight the merits of the games beyond subjective personal views (including mine of course).
If someone thinks a game is one of the best on the Amiga, surely it would also be one of their favourites?
Absolutely not, and in a way you have just agreed with me by saying that someone else may not share my view about Maupiti Island : a masterpiece, or perfection, may not be to everyone's liking. I took an example : to my knowledge "Another World" is one of the best Amiga games, but although I like watching it I hate playing it so I would never rank it among my favourites.
It occurs to me that the current preselection could be defensible if it defined video game as raw recreation only, instead of art or interactive digital art. But then such a major restriction should be mentioned in the title at least (for example "The 100 most relaxing Amiga games of all time" :lol:). Yet Maupiti Island's real-time and immersion work alone may provide unique recreation. And thanks to its unique physics, the fun of such a game as "4D Sports Driving" for example cannot be ruled out among racing games.
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...defensible if it defined video game as raw recreation only, instead of art or interactive digital art.
I would completely agree with that statement. You have summed up pretty much every Top 100 ever conducted among gamers with this.
The argument about video games being art is a long running and continuing one, without any real conclusions drawn by the art bodies or supposed experts in the field so far. As a graphics designer I agree with you that a game can be interactive digital art, just as a film can be motion art. But many others will argue against this.
However, I'm of the view that graphics do not make a game, in the same way that visual post production effects do not make a film, or a book cover a true representation of its content. Narrative content, a good captivating or intelligent story, brilliant gameplay.. These are the things that form a good game regardless of the graphical style or age of their design. People still play the original Space Invaders or even Pong and enjoy it just as much as a current Wii game that uses the same mechanics of gameplay, but these old games graphics are some of the most primitive you will find. It proves that a good game, a favourite of gamers, just has to contain good gameplay, a control system that works, and something that sparks the player's imagination and they can relate to in order to deliver an enjoyable and fun experience whilst playing. Exactly as a film or book should entertain and captivate you.
The artistic merits of a game, and the actual game itself are 2 very different things. I think the argument of games as art is a fascinating one, and as a huge fan of the demo scene, computer art is definitely very much real, but this is going slightly off on a tangent that is not quite directly related to this survey or the reason for people voting. The survey is definitely about the games people place in their top 10 of their favourites because they enjoy playing them, not because they enjoy watching them. Maybe games as art is a discussion for another time and place, or even another survey.
With any survey of this kind it is impossible to please everyone completely who takes part. As I said before, that just is not possible. But with constructive feedback we can improve our future surveys to hopefully address any shortfalls of this first one.
We ran this survey in the way we have, and so we have to see it to the conclusion and publish the results. Most people will be happy with the final Top 100 voted for, and we will be giving everyone the opportunity next year to vote again.
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Thank you for your answer.
However, I'm of the view that graphics do not make a game, in the same way that visual post production effects do not make a film, or a book cover a true representation of its content. Narrative content, a good captivating or intelligent story, brilliant gameplay.. These are the things that form a good game regardless of the graphical style or age of their design. People still play the original Space Invaders or even Pong and enjoy it just as much as a current Wii game that uses the same mechanics of gameplay, but these old games graphics are some of the most primitive you will find. It proves that a good game, a favourite of gamers, just has to contain good gameplay, a control system that works, and something that sparks the player's imagination and they can relate to in order to deliver an enjoyable and fun experience whilst playing. Exactly as a film or book should entertain and captivate you.
I'm afraid you are reading in my approach the flaws I attributed to your preselection : I agree with you, and that's the reason why I intervened.
Talking of art or interactive digital art, I'm not referring to any specific angle such as graphics, gameplay, music, sound, animation or scenario. I'm not referring to the sum of them either : a masterpiece is not (or not only) a preconceived sum of successful elements, but a successful conception. I'm referring to art in the general sense of the word.
The artistic merits of a game, and the actual game itself are 2 very different things.
That's why I am obliged to mention "Maupiti Island" : to my knowledge the Amiga version (and Atari version to a certain extent but not the IBM-PC version which is a rather bad and poor copy of the original) is the only video game which demonstrates by itself that "the artistic merits of a game and the actual game" can be indissociable. From the artistic point of view, it means that Maupiti demonstrates that interactive digital art (hence video games) is a distinctive art form. And from the gaming point of view, it means that Maupiti demonstrates that quality of gaming experience may reach new levels if the gameplay and other subjective dimensions of creation are developed as only one creation process.
I know that such a statement may sound so grandiloquent that one could succumb to the temptation to attribute it to ordinary egocentricity, but it would be a mistake, and the stakes are so important that this thesis needs to be given at least the benefit of the doubt. Moreover I know that it may be too condensed to be received easily by a person who doesn't agree with it ; I just don't have the time to develop if nobody asks me so, and I still haven't written any essay or article on this subject, but I will answer any question or argument.
It goes without saying that I am and will always be looking for any conflicting argument, whether it is spontaneous or erudite.
With any survey of this kind it is impossible to please everyone completely who takes part. As I said before, that just is not possible.
I wish to make it clear that it is your own regret, not mine : I haven't mentioned any personal preference. On the contrary my purpose is to help you validate your selection hence your survey, beyond any personal view.
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Why not just go to http://www.lemonamiga.com to find out what the top 100 Amiga games are, based on user ratings???
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It would indeed be easier. Also Lemon's voting system allows more accuracy and liberty. Moreover it is dynamic, therefore really "definitive", at least in the time sense of the word, unlike a survey. In order to aim at achieving a "definitive" Top in the authoritative sense of the word, one would have to replace the voters by a jury, but it still wouldn't be definitive in the temporal sense.
However I suppose that the fun is part of Harrison's motivation, and on this at least I can agree !