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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 09:43:15 AM

Title: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 09:43:15 AM
Hi,

I was wondering, is it possible to set the Amiga floppy drive to work similar to that of a PC floppy drive by changing some settings from workbench? or maybe something available from Aminet?

What I mean by this is the following; rather then having the floppy drive always check if a disk is in the drive and display an icon when a disk is inserted, similar to Windows, an icon for the floppy drive would always be available and workbench would only check if a disk is in the drive when double click on this icon.

Regards,
Sim085
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: dougal on February 17, 2010, 09:48:15 AM
I dont think that is possible
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 10:21:55 AM
I was thinking of dismounting DF0 on workbench start-up and then create a project icon that would run a script to re-mount it on click. The only problems I can see so far is how to stop workbench from displaying an icon for the disk-drive once mounted, and how to open window with disk content from script.

I think I will still dismount DF0 on workbench start-up and mount it back only when needed since I do not like the click sound very much and with a 'noclick' program it still does a regular small click.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: LoadWB on February 17, 2010, 10:24:53 AM
Which "no click" program are you using?  I have been using one for many many years now on multiple machines with multiple drives and I never hear a drive click after the program activates.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;543634
Which "no click" program are you using?  I have been using one for many many years now on multiple machines with multiple drives and I never hear a drive click after the program activates.

The one I have I downloaded it from Aminet (first one I found). With it the 'click' the drive makes was reduced, but I can still hear a 'small' click every few seconds.

Do you have a link to the NoClick program you use?
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Lockon_15 on February 17, 2010, 11:08:25 AM
Do you have A500 or A500+ ?
Noclick only reduces click on A500+,"regular" A500 is OK.
 
AMINET: anticlick,clicknot,killclick or tdx
Please provide some feedback.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: Lockon_15;543639
Do you have A500 or A500+ ?
Noclick only reduces click on A500+,"regular" A500 is OK.

I have an A500+.
 
Quote from: Lockon_15;543639
AMINET: anticlick,clicknot,killclick or tdx
Please provide some feedback.

I don't have my workbench installation on me but as much as I remember the one I use is named NoClick. This one does reduce the click sound but not at all. I always thought that the small click was because the drive still needed to check if a disk was present or not.

So with those the drive produce absolutely no sound when no disk is present?
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Lockon_15 on February 17, 2010, 12:09:42 PM
That makes sense.
 
Drive clicking = stepper motor activity.
Every floppy drive has 2 motors; one actually perform disk rotation while another one moves heads back and forth.
Reduced clicking noise on Rev8a might indicate that motor still get enough current to move head and thus generate a click noise.
(AFAIK, that might be cylinder position -1 to 0 and back ti -1, dunno for sure).
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 12:59:33 PM
So does that mean that it is impossible to eliminate the click sound completly from the A500+ floppy drive (unless dismounting the drive that is) ?
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: dougal on February 17, 2010, 01:01:29 PM
Quote from: sim085;543651
So does that mean that it is impossible to eliminate the click sound completly from the A500+ floppy drive (unless dismounting the drive that is) ?


Disconnect the drive :D

Or try the other Noclick programs maybe you will have better luck
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: tone007 on February 17, 2010, 01:06:24 PM
Or leave a disk in it!
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Thomas on February 17, 2010, 02:29:21 PM
In order to check if a disk is in the drive, normally the read/wrrite head is moved from track 0 to track 1 and back. This causes the click sound.

With the noclick option active, the drive is instructed to move from 0 to -1 instead. The drive should know that this is not possible and not move the head at all, but still report whether a disk is present or not.

Some drives however do not hat the intelligence to know that they are at track 0 already and try to move the head further, usually resulting in an even worse click than normal and also causing damage. If this happens, you should deactivate the noclick option immediately.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: itix on February 17, 2010, 03:03:54 PM
Quote from: Thomas;543662

Some drives however do not hat the intelligence to know that they are at track 0 already and try to move the head further, usually resulting in an even worse click than normal and also causing damage. If this happens, you should deactivate the noclick option immediately.


That is funny though... any crashing application could in theory destroy your floppy drive.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Thomas on February 17, 2010, 03:10:52 PM
Quote
That is funny though... any crashing application could in theory destroy your floppy drive.


It shouldn't harm if it happens only few times. But if it does it every two seconds, it's most likely to cause damage.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Tomas on February 17, 2010, 03:18:12 PM
Quote from: sim085;543626
Hi,

I was wondering, is it possible to set the Amiga floppy drive to work similar to that of a PC floppy drive by changing some settings from workbench? or maybe something available from Aminet?

What I mean by this is the following; rather then having the floppy drive always check if a disk is in the drive and display an icon when a disk is inserted, similar to Windows, an icon for the floppy drive would always be available and workbench would only check if a disk is in the drive when double click on this icon.

Regards,
Sim085

Why would you even want to do this?? If you are bothered by the sound then why not just insert a floppy disk into the drive?
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 03:18:36 PM
Ok, I am starting to get little worried ... however the current sound I hear is very small (compared to the usual click noise I have without the NoClick).

Also, in the case mentioned above, would all NoClick programs have the same effect? i.e. - possibly damage the floppy drive?
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 03:39:45 PM
Quote from: Tomas;543667
Why would you even want to do this?? If you are bothered by the sound then why not just insert a floppy disk into the drive?

Because I would like to find a more professional option then just put a floppy disk there :) Dismount the drive and mount it only when I needed sound more professional to me - however I do not want to be doing any damage.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Thomas on February 17, 2010, 03:51:42 PM
Quote
Also, in the case mentioned above, would all NoClick programs have the same effect?


All programs done for AmigaOS 2.0 and above do the same: they just set a flag in the internal structures of trackdisk.device and trackdisk.device then changes its behaviour. This is the only system-friendly way to do it.


Quote
however the current sound I hear is very small


It depends on the drive what happens with noclick enabled. As already mentioned, some drives try to move the head against the limit causing a cracking noise and possible damages. Some drives do not make any sound any more. And some drives still make a small sound.


Quote
Dismount the drive and mount it only when I needed sound more professional to me


The problem is that AmigaDOS does not allow to dismount floppy drives. Although you can remove the entries from the DOS list, trackdisk.device will still continue to poll for disk changes. So you gain nothing.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: LoadWB on February 17, 2010, 04:37:59 PM
Interesting about the A500+.  My primary 500 is a + model, and NoClick works just fine.  It could be the floppy drive I have in it, too.  I have gone through so many drives over the past 15 years...

I am not sure where I found mine, though I am assuming on AmiNet since it was many years ago.  I am pretty sure it is a commodity, and will check when I get home.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: LoadWB on February 17, 2010, 05:15:42 PM
Okay, I was right, it is a commodity, and it shows in Exchange with this
information:

NoClick 2.0 (C) 1996 by Timo C. Nentwig

It has a file size of 4988 bytes and a file version of "NoClick 2.0".

It looks like the matching entry at AmiNet is http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/noclick20_usr
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: sim085 on February 17, 2010, 07:19:51 PM
Thanks :) I'll try that one out.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: delshay on February 17, 2010, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Lockon_15;543647
That makes sense.
 
Drive clicking = stepper motor activity.
Every floppy drive has 2 motors; one actually perform disk rotation while another one moves heads back and forth.
Reduced clicking noise on Rev8a might indicate that motor still get enough current to move head and thus generate a click noise.
(AFAIK, that might be cylinder position -1 to 0 and back ti -1, dunno for sure).


don't know why you posted that,my drive has three motors. the extra motor is needed to eject the floppy disk. (motorized eject system)

maybe one day it may eject via software.

it's a jrop in replacement for my A1200 desktop floppy drive. it gets it's power (5v) via the ribbon cable on pin 3 of the A1200 motherboard 34 pin connector.

pin 3 is not on any A1200 motherboard i just added it in.
so the old floppy power connector is spare or removed on some of my other motherboards.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: LoadWB on February 17, 2010, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: delshay;543707
don't know why you posted that,my drive has three motors. the extra motor is needed to eject the floppy disk. (motorize eject system)

maybe one day it may eject via software.

it's a jrop in replacement for my A1200 desktop floppy drive.


Que?  What drive is that...?  Very interesting, indeed.
Title: Re: Floppy Drive work like on PC possible?
Post by: Lockon_15 on February 18, 2010, 07:40:10 AM
Quote from: delshay;543707
don't know why you posted that,my drive has three motors. the extra motor is needed to eject the floppy disk. (motorized eject system)
 
maybe one day it may eject via software.
 
it's a jrop in replacement for my A1200 desktop floppy drive. it gets it's power (5v) via the ribbon cable on pin 3 of the A1200 motherboard 34 pin connector.
 
pin 3 is not on any A1200 motherboard i just added it in.
so the old floppy power connector is spare or removed on some of my other motherboards.

Facts, pics, specs...so far we're all part of known Amiga universe, seems like you're an exception with your 3-motor drive....
Please proceed...don't be interrupted...:)