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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: johnklos on February 14, 2010, 07:14:46 AM
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I've just recently gotten my CyberStorm Mk III repaired as described here:
http://amiga.serveftp.net/Cyberstorm_socket.html (http://amiga.serveftp.net/Cyberstorm_socket.html)
At the same time I got a 71E41J mask m68060 (.32 micron as compared with .6) which runs MUCH cooler. I've read that this version can be run as high as 100 MHz:
http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/welcome.htm (http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/welcome.htm)
When I tried to run the CyberStorm with a 100 MHz oscillator, the CPU works - the power LED stays solid for a while, then flashes quickly - but apparently the memory or the rest of the board isn't fast enough because it doesn't get farther than this.
I have 50ns memory installed, and it works fine set to 60ns while running the CPU at 80 MHz, but I'm curious if anyone's had any success running a Mk III faster than 80 MHz, and if so, how.
Any ideas, anyone?
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So you mean you want to overclock it to the extreme :)
Suggestions for stretching your overclocking chances:
1-Make a volt mod, the 68060 can tolerate an absolute maximum 4.5 volts as supply
2-Put heatsinks and coolers working at high speed, not only on the processor, but also to the accompanying glue chipset of your CyberStorm. The more extra chips you cool the more likely the CyberStorm will tolerate overclocking.
3-Get a stable PSU, a PC one with at least 2 times the watts than the power consumed by your entire system, to ensure voltage stability at all times.
4-Overclock bit by bit. This means, dont go for 100mhz at one shot. Try 80, 85, 90, 95 and then 100mhz
5-When overclocking a 68060 the first component that will fail will be the built in FPU. So get a proper fpu test/benchmark and use it while you clock up your CyberStorm to ensure you are getting a stable system.
6-Dont forget to have your setup in a proper ventilated case, otherwise cooling will be useless.
7-If you got the money and the will, you can also try some water cooling setup
8-If you have plenty of money, use phase change cooling for the best results. If not you may also hack a beer mini-fridge for your CyberStorm. When using this type of cooling, remember to protect the cpu/chips by putting a heater near the cpu/chip to avoid condensation.
Bottomline: Overclocking to the extremes is half science and half art. Your mileage will allways vary.
Good luck!
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So you mean you want to overclock it to the extreme :)
Suggestions for stretching your overclocking chances:
1-Make a volt mod, the 68060 can tolerate an absolute maximum 4.5 volts as supply
2-Put heatsinks and coolers working at high speed, not only on the processor, but also to the accompanying glue chipset of your CyberStorm. The more extra chips you cool the more likely the CyberStorm will tolerate overclocking.
3-Get a stable PSU, a PC one with at least 2 times the watts than the power consumed by your entire system, to ensure voltage stability at all times.
4-Overclock bit by bit. This means, dont go for 100mhz at one shot. Try 80, 85, 90, 95 and then 100mhz
5-When overclocking a 68060 the first component that will fail will be the built in FPU. So get a proper fpu test/benchmark and use it while you clock up your CyberStorm to ensure you are getting a stable system.
6-Dont forget to have your setup in a proper ventilated case, otherwise cooling will be useless.
7-If you got the money and the will, you can also try some water cooling setup
8-If you have plenty of money, use phase change cooling for the best results. If not you may also hack a beer mini-fridge for your CyberStorm. When using this type of cooling, remember to protect the cpu/chips by putting a heater near the cpu/chip to avoid condensation.
Bottomline: Overclocking to the extremes is half science and half art. Your mileage will allways vary.
Good luck!
you forgat a couple of things
it's not all about PSU watts,it's also the PSU connections. as you lose voltage if all of the GND and 5v wires are not connected and should be kept short as possible to the PCB.
anyway here with EXTREME speeds the logic chips need voltage near their operating voltage ie 5v if it jrops to say 4.92 4.93 it starts to lock-up to be safe it must read 4.98 and above. the voltage reading must be take from the PCB ie the GND probe must not be connected to the frame but on the PCB itself along with positive probe to get a TRUE reading of the voltage on the PCB.
SIMMS
this also plays a important factor and most simms will fail even if it reads 50ns.
someone here on amiga.org said whats marked on the outside does not mean what on the inside,well he was right (he knows who he is).
i have here SIMM which is marked 60ns,but it is *not true*,it's infact 43ns which allows me to overclock pass 80MHz.
this may or may not effect all PHASE5 cards but i can say for the first time Blizzard PPC cards can operate at 80Mhz+.
68060 on **my** Blizzard PPC card has reached 80Mhz and passed 24Hr test and i don't thing this is the limit and im almost sure it will go faster as i have the correct simm for this kind of speed.
there are other things thats also stopping cards operating at EXTREME speeds which im not going into.
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I have a CSMK3 with 68060@75MHz. I use 50ns marked EDO SIMMs. I have a very fast and stable system at this speed. I do not overclock the motherboard or SCSI, just the 68060 with a 2nd oscillator. I changed a jumper to do this. It's described here...
http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/overclock/csppc.html
I tried 80MHz and the system booted but was not completely stable. I didn't think the problem was the 68060 (newest mask). It could have been the ram being too slow but I doubt that even. I can set the memory speed up in the CS boot menu at 75 MHz but it didn't help to have it at the slower speed at 80 MHz. I figured the limit of the CS circuitry had been reached. Good luck going farther and let me know if you have any luck.
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that link shows how to build a socket,but i dont like that idea.
the problem is when the CPU is going to be removed it can put a lot of stress on the outer pins and can or may removed the pads from the PCB.
a proper socket will add strength to all the pins and work together but if you are going to fit the latest mask why bother with a socket.
from what iv seen and my point of veiw 060 sockets is a bad idea and cause more problems,so any of my future projects will not include 060 sockets.
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that link shows how to build a socket,but i dont like that idea.
the problem is when the CPU is going to be removed it can put a lot of stress on the outer pins and can or may removed the pads from the PCB.
a proper socket will add strength to all the pins and work together but if you are going to fit the latest mask why bother with a socket.
from what iv seen and my point of veiw 060 sockets is a bad idea and cause more problems,so any of my future projects will not include 060 sockets.
Unfortunately, there's no way to solder an m68060 directly since the circuit board isn't through-pin - the socket is surface mounted. If you read the repair link, you'll see that they recommend building up the socket because there's no way to get underneath it.
If you think soldering the chip directly is a better idea, though, why would removal of the m68060 from the socket be a reason to support that? If the chip is soldered, then you can't swap it for any reason. If you have a socket, you just have to be very careful if you do swap it... but I don't have any reason whatsoever to ever change it since it's the latest / last mask.
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Suggestions for stretching your overclocking chances:
1-Make a volt mod, the 68060 can tolerate an absolute maximum 4.5 volts as supply
2-Put heatsinks and coolers working at high speed, not only on the processor, but also to the accompanying glue chipset of your CyberStorm. The more extra chips you cool the more likely the CyberStorm will tolerate overclocking.
3-Get a stable PSU, a PC one with at least 2 times the watts than the power consumed by your entire system, to ensure voltage stability at all times.
4-Overclock bit by bit. This means, dont go for 100mhz at one shot. Try 80, 85, 90, 95 and then 100mhz
5-When overclocking a 68060 the first component that will fail will be the built in FPU. So get a proper fpu test/benchmark and use it while you clock up your CyberStorm to ensure you are getting a stable system.
6-Dont forget to have your setup in a proper ventilated case, otherwise cooling will be useless.
7-If you got the money and the will, you can also try some water cooling setup
8-If you have plenty of money, use phase change cooling for the best results. If not you may also hack a beer mini-fridge for your CyberStorm. When using this type of cooling, remember to protect the cpu/chips by putting a heater near the cpu/chip to avoid condensation.
A lot of good suggestions. Most of these I already addressed:
1: decided against that, as this is in a colocated server and stability is more important than speed.
2: have little heat sinks on the chips under the SIMMs, too, since they do get ridiculously hot, and I have a fan moving air across (front of Amiga to back) the entire board.
3: even though I have the stock power supply, I've replaced some of the older components in it because of testing it at full load, put in a variable speed fan, removed a couple of metal fins on the back, and reduced the total power of the system significantly. It used to have a CyberStorm PPC, two 10,000 RPM UltraSCSI drives, and one 7,200 RPM IDE drive. Now it has just one 2 TB 5,900 RPM low power drive.
4: I either have to source some more oscillators between 80 and 100 MHz or I need to build a variable speed clock generator.
5: Good idea. I have been running some FPU-intensive programs to test it.
6: I spent a good bit of time improving ventilation and making sure there are no hot spots inside.
7: Too complicated and not enough space. Also, what would I cool? The CPU at 80 MHz and 100% load is still so cool with the ventilation that you can barely tell it's warmer than when it's off.
8: Same thing. Might be useful for the CyberStorm PPC since the 604e gets damned hot and it's got an original mask m68060.
Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes.
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Unfortunately, there's no way to solder an m68060 directly since the circuit board isn't through-pin - the socket is surface mounted. If you read the repair link, you'll see that they recommend building up the socket because there's no way to get underneath it.
If you think soldering the chip directly is a better idea, though, why would removal of the m68060 from the socket be a reason to support that? If the chip is soldered, then you can't swap it for any reason. If you have a socket, you just have to be very careful if you do swap it... but I don't have any reason whatsoever to ever change it since it's the latest / last mask.
this is why the CPU should be solder in direct by a expert,to stop users changing the CPU via a socket as it's surface mounted. if you keep changing CPU sooner or later you will damage the pads on the PCB.
if a socket must be mounted removing the bottom part of the pin (thin part) and solder a proper complete socket just like how the old socket was removed. but i don't recommend a socket for this PCB as to many changes of CPU may damage the pads.
that type of PCB is better off with the latest mask soldered in direct.
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It might be possible to run the bus at 1/2 CPU clock (like the Apollo cards easily can), check the 68060 docs for how this is supposed to be done. 100MHz should be entirely possible then, without stressing the rest of the card.
Aside from that, an Apollo 4060 is easily overclocked, with a Fastlane or 4091 you'd still have decent SCSI, too.
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if a socket must be mounted removing the bottom part of the pin (thin part) and solder a proper complete socket just like how the old socket was removed. but i don't recommend a socket for this PCB as to many changes of CPU may damage the pads.
Why not just put the CPU in the socket and leave it?
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With the scarcity of good accelerator cards for the Amiga, I would be too worried about ruining either of my Phase5 CyberStorm PPC cards or CyberVision graphics cards by overclocking them. That plus the fact that there are so few repair shops that will work on them if I do damage mine and parts are getting harder to find to make any repairs.
I will settle for 50MHz 68060 and 233MHz 604e PPC and just hope that they both last for several more years as I wait for MorphOS2.x, AmigaOS4.x and AROS to continue to get faster, better and have more software written specifically for them that will eventually cause me to retire, or sell my big box Classic Amiga computers and only use my PC, or MacBook with AmigaForever/WinUAE/AmiKit, and/or GBA1000 (if/when I ever get it completed), and/or A500+ w/GVP A530, and/or MiniMig (if/when I ever get it completed), and/or upgraded CDTV w/50MHz 68030+6882+32mb RAM, and/or A1200/50MHz 68060/256mb RAM/SCSI-2/Subway USB/IDE-to-CompactFlash 8gb internal drive, to relive the fun of playing all those old Classic Amiga games, unless I run E-UAE on my 1.5GHz G4 MacMini running MorphOS2.4 and just get rid of everything else once and for all. (never happen, it is incredibly hard to part with all this old hardware that has given so many good memories for so long a period of time, hard to choose which Amigas to get rid of and which to keep, but why do any of us need more than one computer, or one desktop and one laptop?)
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that link shows how to build a socket,but i dont like that idea.
the problem is when the CPU is going to be removed it can put a lot of stress on the outer pins and can or may removed the pads from the PCB.
When I designed that concept of a PGA socket using individual pin sockets, I did consider the stress on the pads. The Precidip part no. 714-87-164-31-012 data states the removal force as 0.4 N (typical) for each pin. Any one pad is easily strong enough to tolerate this upward force.
Not sure why you mentioned that the outer pins would have more stress applied to them, are you not using a PGA extraction tool? Most of these tools apply *downward* force to the outer pins, so if anything, these are under the least stress during removal.
As it has already been mentioned, it would be best to be able to solder the CPU directly to the board (higher reliability and it lessens the chances of the average punter messing with it), but obviously you can't do this due to the BGA footprint.
Unless you have access to a BGA replacement station and an X-ray machine to inspect the final joints, replacing the socket with a BGA type is not really an option.
If you have a suggestion of how to improve my socket implementation, I'm certainly open for ideas.
Advantages of individual pin sockets:
- Easy to obtain
- Each joint can be 100% visually inspected
- Unsoldered joints are obvious (the pin falls off)
- No specialised equipment required to fit them
The disadvantage is that it's crutial to align each socket perfectly, which takes a high degree of soldering ability.
Make a volt mod, the 68060 can tolerate an absolute maximum 4.5 volts as supply
Where did you find that detail? The 68060 datasheet I have specifies the maximum supply as 4.0V. [Section 12.1 - Maximum Ratings - Supply Voltage] Have you checked the supply voltage range of the other devices on the board which are powered from the 3.3V regulator?
with EXTREME speeds the logic chips need voltage near their operating voltage ie 5v if it jrops to say 4.92 4.93 it starts to lock-up to be safe it must read 4.98 and above
The supply to a CMOS device (and it's temperature) affects the propagation delay through the device and the output transition time. If you're talking about 50mV power supply variation before problems occur, it doesn't sound like a usable situation. Even good power supplies are specified for a load regulation of 3-5%. So best case, you need to expect a supply between 4.85 and 5.15V.
With the scarcity of good accelerator cards for the Amiga, I would be too worried about ruining either of my Phase5 CyberStorm PPC cards or CyberVision graphics cards by overclocking them. That plus the fact that there are so few repair shops that will work on them if I do damage mine and parts are getting harder to find to make any repairs.
Thanks, the best statement so far. I've lost track of the number of Cyberstorm boards I've repaired, only to get an Email back a few weeks later saying that the owner has overclocked it (against my advice) and the board no longer boots. You don't get a second chance after you've killed the programmable logic, the images to program new ones are not available, so you can kiss your hardware goodbye.
Why is it that device manufactures go to great lengths to generate operating parameters and limits?? So that you can operate the thing without killing it!
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when the pads go though a heat cycle (ie solder/resolder) it's not the same strength/bonding to the PCB.
when a new CPU is inserted force will be put on all the pins left,right,up,down and can damage the pads as there may be movement not on the pin(s) but the suface mounted pads itself in-effect tearing it from the PCB,this is why the *plastic housing* is inportant as all pins will work together.
so it's not just when you removing a CPU it's also when you insert it and it applies to all the pins not just the outer.
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The Cyberstorm MKIII can have it's firmware told to run more (or less) wait states on the DRAM controller. Once set (I think it might even be stored in NVRAM) it should be possible to overclock higher than standard.
I think you need a combination of Phase5 cpu060 and setmemmode
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Unfortunately, there's no way to solder an m68060 directly since the circuit board isn't through-pin - the socket is surface mounted. If you read the repair link, you'll see that they recommend building up the socket because there's no way to get underneath it.
If you think soldering the chip directly is a better idea, though, why would removal of the m68060 from the socket be a reason to support that? If the chip is soldered, then you can't swap it for any reason. If you have a socket, you just have to be very careful if you do swap it... but I don't have any reason whatsoever to ever change it since it's the latest / last mask.
there are other reasons why a socket should not be used which im not going into.but why do need a socket if you have the latest mask,what would be the reason to swap a 68060. how offten do their go faulty.
from my point of veiw 060 socket should be left for TESTING purpose only.
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i do have a improvment for the socket but i don't recommend a socket as said before.
first check that the plastic housing is not too wide,try this on a non working 68060/68040 add strip of pins socket on all of the 68060/040 pins,if all ok then try below.
when each row of pins (with plastic housing)as you are soldering along add a small amount of glue in between each row of the plastic casing,this will add strength to the hole socket.
the glue should be added first before soldering in the pins.
care must be taken that glue must not come into contact with the pins above and below. if glue does show it can be cleaned before it drys,but here again care must be taken as glue can go down the pin hole which can block the path for the CPU. very strong glue must be used to hold the socket together.
if glue does show but is NOT IN CONTACT with the pins it can be left as it is to dry,as it can be clean after or just leave it as it is. (sometimes it's best to leave it alone if glue shows above the socket).
very little glue must also be used in between the row of plastic housing,if too much glue is used when it comes to doing the last few rows of pins you may find it not in alignment with the pads.
SO KEEP A EYE ALSO ON ALIGNMENT WITH THE PADS AS YOU GO ALONG.
alignment can be done by adding two two pins at each end (in other words four pin socket inserted at each end) this will hold the single row of pin in place. after it has dryed do the same to the next row and so on until socket is complete. the glue must be completely set in-order to start the next row of pins and don't forget to solder the pins in as you go along.
NOTE: to complete the socket it may take one to two days (depending on glue used).
all above has never being tested on surface mounted PCB
with all the advised iv given in this thread im going to say it for the last time. socket is not recommened for that PCB.
***ALL MODIFICATION AT YOUR OWN RISK***
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i do have a improvment for the socket but i don't recommend a socket as said before.
OK, that is a good suggestion. Had considered something similar as well, but never took it further due to the time it would take and the handling of the glue. Probably OK if you're working on your own equipment, but if you're doing this commercially then of course time is money. The socket replacement costs enough as it is at the moment.
Still, it's worthy of more investigation to see what's realistically possible. Will give it a try next time I've got some dead boards coming this way.
Granted that the individual pin sockets can cause more sideways stress on PCB pads if pins are pushed sideways, though I've never had an instance of pad or track damage in all the Cyberstorms I've worked on. Never had a customer complaint or warranty claim on the repair work either. Except when they decide to overclock it and it kills the programmable logic, though that's hardly the fault of my work.
And yes, if I had my way there would be no IC socket on this board, or on many other pieces of equipment. Unfortunately going back in time to convince Phase5 otherwise is out of the question unless you have a DeLorean and a flux capacitor handy :-P
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Thanks, the best statement so far. I've lost track of the number of Cyberstorm boards I've repaired, only to get an Email back a few weeks later saying that the owner has overclocked it (against my advice) and the board no longer boots. You don't get a second chance after you've killed the programmable logic, the images to program new ones are not available, so you can kiss your hardware goodbye.
I suppose I wasn't thinking that I could damage the programmable logic - I didn't realize that it depends on the m68060 clock. If the programmable logic is a limiting factor and can be damaged from overclocking, then I will not be trying to clock this any faster - as a matter of fact, I'm going to bring it down.
The logic chips get hot, but they don't burn my fingers now that I have a cooling fan running over them. Then again, they always got ridiculously hot on the CyberStorm PPC without any overclocking, so I thought that was normal.
75 MHz is more than fast enough. Thanks!
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im not going to give any advice on overclocking,but here is a workbench screenshot of my overclocked Blizzard PPC and i don't have any problems whatsoever (this is the second fastest Blizzard card in the world)
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3039
i also own the fastest
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I suppose I wasn't thinking that I could damage the programmable logic - I didn't realize that it depends on the m68060 clock. If the programmable logic is a limiting factor and can be damaged from overclocking, then I will not be trying to clock this any faster - as a matter of fact, I'm going to bring it down.
...
75 MHz is more than fast enough. Thanks!
The right way to do the overclocking with the CSMK3 is to change the jumper and add a 2nd oscillator. This overclocks the 68060 only. This should be safe enough as this should be the way Phase5 would have supported faster 68060's. 75MHz is very fast considering the memory speeds up too and it was already faster than most other 68060 accelerators. Plus we have ultra wide SCSI. I wouldn't trade for an Apollo 68060@90MHz with half speed memory and broken SCSI. If I want a faster 68060, I'll wait for the Natami with 68060.
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The right way to do the overclocking with the CSMK3 is to change the jumper and add a 2nd oscillator. This overclocks the 68060 only. This should be safe enough as this should be the way Phase5 would have supported faster 68060's. 75MHz is very fast considering the memory speeds up too and it was already faster than most other 68060 accelerators. Plus we have ultra wide SCSI. I wouldn't trade for an Apollo 68060@90MHz with half speed memory and broken SCSI. If I want a faster 68060, I'll wait for the Natami with 68060.
CYBERSTORM VS BLIZZARD
PPC 604 150 MHZ OS4
Speed test for FFT + iFFT: (float)
time needed 19449ms for 413696 samples, => .241165652871131x speed
@44100Hz/stereo
------------ (5840ms at 500 MHZ)
Speed test for FFT + iFFT: (integer)
time needed 16485ms for 413696 samples, => .28452718257904x speed
@44100Hz/stereo
------------ (4950ms at 500 MHZ)
Speed test for FFT + iFFT: (integer handopmized 68K ASM)
time needed 7108ms for 413696 samples, => .659880518913269x speed
@44100Hz/stereo
------------ (2134ms at 500 MHZ)
----------------------
Blizzard PPC 321Mhz 80.333Mhz bus. OS4.0
Speed test for FFT + iFFT: (float)
time needed 17928ms for 413696 samples, => .261626005172729x speed @44100Hz/stereo
(11566ms at 500MHZ)
Speed test for FFT + iFFT: (integer)
time needed 15377ms for 413696 samples, => .30502900481224x speed @44100Hz/stereo
(9920 ms at 500MHZ)
Speed test for FFT + iFFT: (integer handoptimized 68K ASM)
time needed 12774ms for 413696 samples, => .367185741662979x speed @44100Hz/stereo
(8221 ms at 500MHZ)
-------------------------------------------------------------
*** any photo/benchmark of your apollo @90Mhz? ***
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@matthey
Changing only the CPU oscillator is still overclocking the programmable logic, which seems to be a really bad idea on the MK-III/CSPPC cards - I've heard it from a few people as well, one guy had his clocked at a mere 66 MHz before it failed. The Cypress chips on the card are rated at a maximum of 125 MHz, so (big conjecture here) if stock they are already running at an internal clock of 100 MHz, a 75 MHz CPU/bus clock would put them at 150 MHz internal clock - obviously a huge gamble.
The Apollo is definitely a step down from the MK-III, I know I would want a Z3 SCSI card if I had one. It performs well though, memory benchmarks at 40 MHz being roughly equal to an MK-III at 50 MHz. If something goes wrong, chances are it's only the CPU and not the irreplaceable logic that's fried. It would be slower, but enabling the divider on the Cyberstorm cards would be much safer (I looked at the details but technically it's simply over my head, no idea if it's even a possibility outside of the MK-II).
Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if there's something other than just the clockrate that kills the logic when the cards are overclocked. I checked the datasheets for the chips on my TekMagic before bumping it up to 64 MHz, installed a Rev 6 CPU, put heatsinks on the FPGAs "just in case" and lots of extra cooling around the card. I have had ZERO issues whatsoever that could be traced back to the overclock. However, I have to admit Castellen has me a little spooked - I think I'm going to put it back to 50 MHz, simply enjoy it as it is and save the overclocking for the (easily replaced) PC hardware. :P
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Blizzard PPC card but may apply to Cyberstorm PPC/Mk III card
**depending on settings** anything over 64Mhz can damage the card. i discovered this many years ago.
the problem has been fixed on my cards which also has a hack which allows me to have a FPU on the A1200 motherboard,without me having to remove it. so when the Blizzard PPC card is disable by holding down the 2 key the 020/FPU on the A1200 motherboard comes active
anyway cards overclocked over 64Mhz you will know if you have a problem,as you will get many lock-ups,BUT IT CAN GO WITHOUT WARNING.
one of the fault is that memory and PCI will stop working,but the 68k processor may continue to work (depending on type of card). SCSI may also stop working (i did not check this part)
so care must be taken when overclocking over 64Mhz bus.
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Blizzard PPC card but may apply to Cyberstorm PPC/Mk III card
**depending on settings** anything over 64Mhz can damage the card. i discovered this many years ago.
the problem has been fixed on my cards which also has a hack which allows me to have a FPU on the A1200 motherboard,without me having to remove it. so when the Blizzard PPC card is disable by holding down the 2 key the 020/FPU on the A1200 motherboard comes active
anyway cards overclocked over 64Mhz you will know if you have a problem,as you will get many lock-ups,BUT IT CAN GO WITHOUT WARNING.
one of the fault is that memory and PCI will stop working,but the 68k processor may continue to work (depending on type of card). SCSI may also stop working (i did not check this part)
so care must be taken when overclocking over 64Mhz bus.
I've had a Cyberstorm MK3 overclocked to 66.7MHz for years and it's been 100% stable. I had it modified at National Amiga (I believe they changed the oscillator and jumper)....maybe I got lucky? But the card is rock solid. I believe it's a 60MHz 060 on the card, but I forget. Heatsink gets in the way :)
Is there a way to tell the 060 MASK/revision in software?
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if here are users with overclocked 68k cards, i like to see how fast then SDL games at 640*480* 16 bit resolution can run.
I upload a defendguin with framerate display
it work on default in window.but for fastest speed it should start from shell with the defendguin -f
this work in fullscreen
Here is the link for download, can copy to ram and run.note music should stay off
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=nfvHR9gTPYGw
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I've had a Cyberstorm MK3 overclocked to 66.7MHz for years and it's been 100% stable. I had it modified at National Amiga (I believe they changed the oscillator and jumper)....maybe I got lucky? But the card is rock solid. I believe it's a 60MHz 060 on the card, but I forget. Heatsink gets in the way :)
Is there a way to tell the 060 MASK/revision in software?
You could boot a NetBSD kernel - it'll tell you the revision of the chip which will indicate the mask.
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Blizzard PPC card but may apply to Cyberstorm PPC/Mk III card
**depending on settings** anything over 64Mhz can damage the card. i discovered this many years ago.
You're being too general. I'd love to hear what you did to fix your Blizzard, but I doubt it has anything to do with the Cyberstorm, since it's obvious that 66 MHz is perfectly safe since the memory bus of the PowerPC 604e is running at 66 MHz.
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Is there a way to tell the 060 MASK/revision in software?
Scout, WhichAmiga, and the CPU command that comes in the Phase5 archive all give the revision number.
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so it`s back to benchmark.
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if here are users with overclocked 68k cards, i like to see how fast then SDL games at 640*480* 16 bit resolution can run.
I upload a defendguin with framerate display
it work on default in window.but for fastest speed it should start from shell with the defendguin -f
this work in fullscreen
Here is the link for download, can copy to ram and run.note music should stay off
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=nfvHR9gTPYGw
I got 20fps most of the time. It flashed a higher or lower fps from time to time but it wasn't displayed long enough to read it. I had AWeb & Genesis going in the background and my memory was probably pretty well fragmented. I decompressed to ram and did a lot of compiles and disassembles first. The speed seamed fast and responsive but the gfx were messed up. The foreground objects were multi-colored. The background was fine.
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I got 20fps most of the time. It flashed a higher or lower fps from time to time but it wasn't displayed long enough to read it. I had AWeb & Genesis going in the background and my memory was probably pretty well fragmented. I decompressed to ram and did a lot of compiles and disassembles first. The speed seamed fast and responsive but the gfx were messed up. The foreground objects were multi-colored. The background was fine.
err what is the speed of your processor(s) and what card do you have this would help if we are doing benchmark.
do you own a apollo @90Mhz?
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i did the test with sound 8 FPS most of the time,but when everthing went mutunt it jumped to around 20 - 24 FPS..no problems with GFX.
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err what is the speed of your processor(s) and what card do you have this would help if we are doing benchmark.
do you own a apollo @90Mhz?
Nope. Just a CSMK3 with 68060@75MHz, 50ns SIMMs running with the fastest memory settings of the CS, Mediator 3000T/4000T with Voodoo4 and AmigaOS 3.9 with updates in a 3000T.
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Nope. Just a CSMK3 with 68060@75MHz, 50ns SIMMs running with the fastest memory settings of the CS, Mediator 3000T/4000T with Voodoo4 and AmigaOS 3.9 with updates in a 3000T.
WOW WOW WOW thats fast.
lets see if i can get anywhere near it.
the last test was a trick (8 FPS) it's real but it was done on my Blizzard PPC TEST CARD which has a 200Mhz PPC processor overclocked to 240Mhz with 060 clocked @50Mhz with the slowest memory setting.
will upload test to this thread soon from one of my faster cards.
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>I decompressed to ram and did a lot of compiles and disassembles first. The speed >seamed fast and responsive but the gfx were messed up. The foreground objects were >multi-colored. The background was fine.
20fps look great, but i dont understand wy colors are wrong.
Can you post the sashimi output, also delshay can do it.
here is a test Program that show what Pixelmode your GFX Card support.If your GFX Card support RGB16 Pixelmode then speed is fastest.
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=yXDfJTmY7sMG
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@bernd
The Voodoo4 supports most every gfx mode but the big endian modes have problems with the colors of some objects. This is an Elbox bug for a long time and they don't seem too enthusiastic about fixing. Having big endian and small endian modes open at the same time can cause gfx corruption according to Elbox. Elbox recommends using little endian modes. Did your demo open in big endian mode? That would explain why it ran so fast too.
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i will upload test on monday. note my Bvision is overclocked from the standard 83Mhz to 100Mhz i don't know how much of a effect (if any) it will have on the test result.
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>The Voodoo4 supports most every gfx mode but the big endian modes have problems with >the colors of some objects. This is an Elbox bug for a long time and they don't seem too >enthusiastic about fixing.
netsurf do the same, it run fast when you have a RBG16 Pixelmode.does netsurf too show wrong colors ?
the Problem when use RGB16 PC Pixelmode is that SDL do not work ok.
the convert is done by a shift and mask value.(i explain at utiltiybase more)
When use RGB16PC then there need 2 bits from upper rotate, so that they are in the lower 2 bits.
But because C do not rotate the bits in the upper come not to the Bit Position 0 and 1 and so color information get lost.
So cant use RGB16PC mode in SDL good.I thought the classic amiga all use RGB16 and only winuae use RGB16PC.So i thought it make no speedloss.
SDL amiga do the way same as MOS, it use a RGB16 Mode intern and swap the data.
for others with RGB16 PC screenmode its maybe faster when set the env variable SDL_SWSURFACE
maybe delshay can try out if it work faster on his Card
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i wiil try on my card when i have time,as at the moment i have my test card plug-in testing out new modifcations,which may make my card faster.
i can also say the latest test shows the Blizzard PPC card will not go 100Mhz (to be comfirmed)
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I remember my CSPPC began to corrupt with 97 MHz.
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on my fastest card im getting around 12 FPS @72Mhz and 15 FPS @74MHZ in normal gameplay but speeds up when everything go's mutant.
68K processor is limited until it can be clocked on it's own.
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I send Matthey a Version that work on his system with rgb16PC and 20 fps with correct colors now.
maybe this run on your system too faster ?
Note, the framerate is limit in program code to 25 fps.More is not possible.
http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=UUUkArTbbnPm
Problem of this version is, red color accuracy is not soo good, but it look still nice.
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I have two CSPPCs, both are running with 80MHZ. I never tried more.
A friend at http://www.a1k.org (Reptile) has a running CSPPC with 85MHZ.
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I have two CSPPCs, both are running with 80MHZ. I never tried more.
A friend at http://www.a1k.org (Reptile) has a running CSPPC with 85MHZ.
I thought mine at 66.7Mhz was fast...*sniff*...
How do you get 80MHz? You need special revision/mask 060?
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You need good Ram`s (50ns) and a MC68060 Rev.7 CPU.
This CPU can clocked (theoretical) up to 100MHZ with active Cooling.
The MC`s are better than the XC`s because they stay more cool as the XC.
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You need good Ram`s (50ns) and a MC68060 Rev.7 CPU.
Revision 7? What mask is that? I've never heard of such a thing. I thought that the 71E41J mask was the last one.
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Cyberstorm with it's 64 bit is just too fast,so iv already started to fix this problem to closed the gap,my Blizzard card has jumped from 25Mhz to 41.33Mhz PCI bus speed.