Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: runequester on February 08, 2010, 11:24:23 PM
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This is just pipedream speculation since nobody makes any of the chips etc anymore.
But given the success of the minimig, if someone was capable of putting out what was basically an original A500 / 1200 / whatever, whether using FPGA's, magic faerie dust to produce the original chips again or whatever, would you buy it?
More importantly, how much would you pay for it ?
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Would be kinda nice if someone made a small FPGA based board with an A1200 trapdoor compatible slot into which you could shove your existing accelerator kit.
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This is just pipedream speculation since nobody makes any of the chips etc anymore.
But given the success of the minimig, if someone was capable of putting out what was basically an original A500 / 1200 / whatever, whether using FPGA's, magic faerie dust to produce the original chips again or whatever, would you buy it?
More importantly, how much would you pay for it ?
Not an A500 or A1000 clone, but if/when a >400MHz 68020-68060 + AGA compatible, with, or without the Super-AGA enhancements planned in the Natami project is created, I would be interested in it. Of course it would have to be reasonably priced as well, say not more than $800 to $900 US dollars and hopefully much less as progress is made in FPGA projects and their use continues to lower the cost of the FPGA chips themselves.
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May as well just invest in WinUAE, AROS or Amiga Forever really. A friend from another forum brought his Intel based Macbook Pro over the other day and I got to play around with Amiga Forever for the first time. It was emulating an 040 and was running OS3.9. Long story short, we needed to activate the USB side of the Amiga so we could transfer data to and fro an CF Card equipped A500. There was no USB option, so I had the bright idea to install Hodge's Poseidon software. It worked!! Needless to say, I was quite impressed with the "feel" of that Amiga Forever package. Emulated P96 modes and everything else really well too. Really felt like a legitimate and modern/speedy Amiga to me anyway.
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Yes
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An Amiga 4000 clone with 7 zorro III slots, more bandwidth, faster custom chips and hardware emulated 68060 with effective speed over 500mhz? Sure I'd pay a couple hundred.
Of course, obtaining such a machine would require eating illegal mushrooms...
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That's a tough question to answer..
Would I buy an ATV, or an Amiga 500 in a joystick for about $50 if it were hackable to add a keyboard, MMC/SD card? Yes.
Would I buy a new Amiga 500 compatible PC, ala minimig? Probably not..
Would I buy a new Amiga 1200 compatible PC, ala Natami? Possibly, but I wouldn't pay more than $100 as that's about what I can get a 1200 for.
Would I buy something much fancier? Probably not...
desiv
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If I could not find a real A****, I might consider buying a clone of it, but there's plenty of old hardware available that's still in good, working condition. But I might buy a souped-up modern clone if it were still fully compatible.
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Absolutely as long as it was 99% compatible. Not being 99% compatible is really offputting for the minimig.
Put in networking and it will be a must have gadget.
I'd probably pay around $500 for such a machine.
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Most of the fun I have is messing with the hardware, so no.
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I would be interested in something like the Phoenix/GBA1000 but done with either an A1200/A4000.
I mean a complete motherboard redesign with some added extras, corrections and enhancements to become the ultimate Amiga 68k computer much like the GBA1000 is of the A1000.
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If a cheap simple cost effective solutution could be made then i'd be interested.
As long as it's more "Amiga" then "PeeCee" which I feel has been the problem in recent years IMHO.
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As long as the cost DID NOT cost more the real thing. IE: why the heck would you pay $300-$400 for a Clone than $50 to get an A500.If you ask me, these people are absolutely crazy.
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As long as the cost DID NOT cost more the real thing. IE: why the heck would you pay $300-$400 for a Clone than $50 to get an A500.If you ask me, these people are absolutely crazy.
The main thing would be to get hardware that isn't 15 years old. A lot of the stuff out there is starting to show its age sadly
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But given the success of the minimig, if someone was capable of putting out what was basically an original A500 / 1200 / whatever, whether using FPGA's, magic faerie dust to produce the original chips again or whatever, would you buy it?
UH.... the Minimig IS a cloned classic Amiga
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Absolutely as long as it was 99% compatible. Not being 99% compatible is really offputting for the minimig.
You've got to be kidding, the MiniMig is more compatible with my A500/A600 systems than they are compatible with one another.
Put in networking and it will be a must have gadget.
I'd probably pay around $500 for such a machine.
For a MiniMig with ethernet? Hang on while I find some glue.... :laughing:
Seriously though - make a MiniMig 2.0 with 16MB RAM, matching the ~50MHz 68000 CPU with 8MB of FastRAM and 2MB ChipRAM, some more for kickstart and whatever clever things one can do with the MBs left, simulate the lance chip for A2065 emulation, and I would no doubt buy it, even for $500. AGA is not really that important to me, but I know it is for others.
Add a socket for dropping in a 030 and maybe even 882 (dont we all have those floating around somewhere?), and a RAM socket for more RAM, and I would not even look too much at the pricetag :)
But anyhow, isnt this what the FPGAArcade (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/) is all about?
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The main thing would be to get hardware that isn't 15 years old. A lot of the stuff out there is starting to show its age sadly
This is true, but to replace a $50 item (or what ever) and pay $400 for the same thing but with new parts is just plain insanity. You could get 8 of them hand have those 8 last just as long as a "new one". But hey, it has been proven time and time again, that people are willing to dish out insane money just because it has the word Amiga on it.
BTW I am now selling "New" water bottles for $100 a pop. it is the same as any 50 cents bottle of water, but it is newer and has an Amiga boing ball on the label. If refrigerated, this bottle of water MAY last longer than the original bottle, but it is newer and shiner and has a sparkling jemstone glued to the lid. PM for details
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This is true, but to replace a $50 item (or what ever) and pay $400 for the same thing but with new parts is just plain insanity. You could get 8 of them hand have those 8 last just as long as a "new one". But hey, it has been proven time and time again, that people are willing to dish out insane money just because it has the word Amiga on it.
BTW I am now selling "New" water bottles for $100 a pop. it is the same as any 50 cents bottle of water, but it is newer and has an Amiga boing ball on the label. If refrigerated, this bottle of water MAY last longer than the original bottle, but it is newer and shiner and has a sparkling jemstone glued to the lid. PM for details
Brand new Atom systems (for a HTPC, motherboard, cpu and graphics) are $200 to $260. An Amiga clone wouldn't qualify for a 10,000 unit discount, so $500 is probably reasonable.
I can get tap water for a couple of cents but it smells foul and I don't want to drink it unless it's boiled.
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Id like to see an Amiga version of the C64DTV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV
A $50 A500 or A1200-in-a-joystick with a SD slot for storage and hackable expansion ports...
...yes!
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@quarkx
You're repeating yourself. Not everyone here share you sense of "sanity", get over it already. I'm one of those who would be happy to replace old relics that can fall apart any day (and also tend to have all kinds of weird problems due to age) with new, tinier, more robust hardware - not to mention programmable hardware that easily can be updated. The MiniMig is the most fun amiga thing I have bought in years, definetly the number one highlight of 2008-09 for me. And it just gets better and better :)
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UH.... the Minimig IS a cloned classic Amiga
I was thinking something with higher capability. Faster processors, more ram, supports two mice, can read actual amiga floppies, etc etc.
This is true, but to replace a $50 item (or what ever) and pay $400 for the same thing but with new parts is just plain insanity. You could get 8 of them hand have those 8 last just as long as a "new one". But hey, it has been proven time and time again, that people are willing to dish out insane money just because it has the word Amiga on it.
Well, to an extent you are right, but amiga prices for used hardware are climbing up and they wont be around forever.
Besides, buying something second hand is always going to be cheaper than buying it new. That's like saying you should never buy new clothes because its cheaper from goodwill.
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Would be kinda nice if someone made a small FPGA based board with an A1200 trapdoor compatible slot into which you could shove your existing accelerator kit.
that something that will never happen cause industry already moved from 5v ICs long time ago, now it's getting difficult even to find 3.3v stuff. all the level converting would be a nightmare, not worth the trouble just to support legacy expansion stuff.
But a small FPGA based board that will blow the most expanded A1200 out of the water is definitely a possibility, I believe it will be with us, maybe not very soon, but somebody wll make it eventually (if not the Natami team).
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Yes, I would buy a Natami if I could afford it.
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Yes, I would buy a Natami if I could afford it.
I'd buy a Natami too if the thing was actually for sale! lol
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no
Why I still have my Amigas is somethig I keep asking myself.
They can't view the web, they are only good for keeping me from learning new software.
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If it was a cloned A4000T with a 100Mhz 060 and a G5 for about £300 then yes.
Otherwise no.
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How about an aTablet...as opposed to an aPad. AOS4 should be adequate for a handheld device.
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I don't see the point when you can probaly get the real thing for cheaper (at least in my parts that is) :-)
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ok! so you are saying than people that pay (for example) +50000$ for a new ford mustang are crazy for not pay less than 10000$ for an old second hand one
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I don't see the point when you can probaly get the real thing for cheaper (at least in my parts that is) :-)
With the verious FPGA projects I think the key point is reconfigurability, I think. How about just loading a new core when it turns out game X doesn't work with a 68030? How about loading a C64, an Atari ST, an MSX or whatever? That's what's happening over at fpgaarcade.com for example.
That, and small form factor, reliable and new hardware, low power consumption, etc.
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I would buy a cloned classic Amiga if it came with AGA, 030 and a few meg of Fast RAM, and included some sort of hard drive support (whether a physical hard drive/compact flash card on an IDE interface or HDF read from an SD card.) I only tend to use UAE for WHDLoad games, so these specs would be ideal for me - anything more would be a bonus.
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I'd love to see a 1200 form factor machine, except with USB instead of ser/par ports, HDMI instead of 23 pin video, (Heavily implying Jen's fantastic flicker fixer built in!) and a DVD player on the other side of the case-original floppy drive intact for old games, or at least the header on the board to hack the connector in. Oh, and wifi, ethernet, or both.
For most people's old school game needs, an 040@40MHz is more than enough, just give it 256MB RAM or else a laptop DIMM slot. Make it $200, with modern connectivity, and full AGA/old game compatibility.
The 1200 was just the right size, and today's electronics make the case hugely roomy.
I've already got other computers with tons of CPU power, I just want an 'Amiga' that I can plug into a modern television, get on my LAN, and have enough browser (OWB) to find those old games and get my retro on :-) Haujobb demos on big screen yummm!!!
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ok! so you are saying than people that pay (for example) +50000$ for a new ford mustang are crazy for not pay less than 10000$ for an old second hand one
We are talking CLONES here Not the real thing. Its like saying would I pay for a $50000 custom kit car,based on a ford Taurus, that looks like a mustang, than a real mustang.
No matter what people say, the Clones will never be able to do everything that the real things can do. Maybe 98%, but I would never pay more for a clone than the Real thing.
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With AGA or someone getting hold of the blueprints for AAA, definitely. ECS/OCS - been done.
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No it means it would be handbuilt like a Ferarri. I think name brand products are more likely to end up dodgy.
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This is just pipedream speculation since nobody makes any of the chips etc anymore.
But given the success of the minimig, if someone was capable of putting out what was basically an original A500 / 1200 / whatever, whether using FPGA's, magic faerie dust to produce the original chips again or whatever, would you buy it?
More importantly, how much would you pay for it ?
If it is small, 100% compatible with Amiga 500 and costs less than ~100 euro I will buy one.
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Most definitely no. The cost is prohibitive. You can get an A600 for around £10.
I would also argue the commercial "success" of Minimig. It must have been a resounding commercial failure, this is reflected by the hardware prices having not coming down and no commercially viable clones having been produced nor commercial updates to the original PCB.
Plus there is little or no "scene" developing new cores. Just one or two users.
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What I'd like to see is a Phoenix-like board for the A600/A1200 case. AGA chipset, at least an '030 with a bunch of FastRAM and a built-in scandoubler.
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A nice idea would be a cloned A1200 motherboard which can fit inside the A1200's original casing replacing the original motherboard.
A nice spec would be:
68030 @ 50Mhz (with an option to upgrade using a real 68060)
32bit memory (Like on accelerator boards) upgradable with standard DDR/2 ram
Built in USB + LAN/Wifi (original A1200 case would need modding)
2 Fast IDE connectors
Support for PC floppy drives including HD drives (If that is possible)
Built in SD card slot (Case would need modding)
Upgraded sound hardware
Something like that which would fit into the A1200's original casing with very little modding required on the casing would really give an A1200 a modern computer feeling whilst still retaining the original looks.
Obviously same could be designed for the 500, A4000 and so on. Maybe even the A600.
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This is just pipedream speculation since nobody makes any of the chips etc anymore.
But given the success of the minimig, if someone was capable of putting out what was basically an original A500 / 1200 / whatever, whether using FPGA's, magic faerie dust to produce the original chips again or whatever, would you buy it?
More importantly, how much would you pay for it ?
I wouldn't buy one. The only thing I can think of wanting to run would be old games, UAE is good enough even operating on a single core. I remember my old Apple][+ days, there is just not a single piece of software I would even want to see again, let alone buying a ][+ clone. Day by day, Amiga software is becoming more and more obsolete and grabbing my attention less and less. Too much has flowed under the Amiga bridge to look too far back on it's glory days. I want something modern and portable that will keep my attention, much like my old A500 did for me so many years ago.
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Most definitely no. The cost is prohibitive. You can get an A600 for around £10.
I have two A600s and one Miminig, which one do you think I use most?
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If it is small, 100% compatible with Amiga 500 and costs less than ~100 euro I will buy one.
And, I suspect, in your view, the A500+ and A600 do not count since neither of them are 100% compatible with A500?
Really, people are asking for way too much here.
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What I'd like to see is a Phoenix-like board for the A600/A1200 case. AGA chipset, at least an '030 with a bunch of FastRAM and a built-in scandoubler.
A 030 is a challenge - voltage and availability, both rising the cost alot.
Another challenge - AGA chipset.
A workaround for the availability is to just offer cards with CPU socket, and leave it to the user to find CPU. Softcore 030 and AGA implemented on FPGA is science fiction at this point - one is better off with UAE.
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AGA implemented on FPGA is science fiction at this point - one is better off with UAE.
Isn't that in essence what the Indivision AGA is? An FPGA Lisa chip? I guess we'd still need a replacement Alice though.
As for the CPU, it doesn't need to be softcore, Freescale still make '040 and '060 CPUs.
Either way, it's still just a pipe dream. :-)
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Softcore 030 and AGA implemented on FPGA is science fiction at this point - one is better off with UAE.
No it isn't. Do you forget the natami, which already has motherboards printed, and already runs aga hardware banging stuff? Inivision AGA?
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..never mind the fact it doesn't actually work..
edit: and it seems they're using real CPUs... http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm
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This is just pipedream speculation since nobody makes any of the chips etc anymore.
Put an IDE and PCI, maybe a couple other things into a Minimig board, and you've got something better than A500. I never really understood what seemed to be a concern that BGA FPGA chips would be too much of a hassle to do this. I guess Natami is that, and we'll just have to wait for it.
Would I buy one? Not sure. I'll probably really want an X1000. And for some things I'd like to do, if we can't get uboot compiling to work on updates for AmigaOne XEW boards, then I'll also need to buy another Jtag kit for debugging, which is really expensive. While neat, I may pass due to expense. I have an FPGA on a PCI card with some other widgets that I'd like to tinker with porting Minimig to.
As for Natami using real CPU or softcore, I think softcore is better idea at this point. We can get enhancements that Freescale doesn't care to make, and even if it's in its own FPGA chip and the rest is in a second chip, that FPGA could be cheaper than a Freescale 060.