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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: fishy_fiz on February 03, 2010, 12:25:21 AM

Title: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: fishy_fiz on February 03, 2010, 12:25:21 AM
The topic says it all really. I assume its possible to do, but I have no idea how to do it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Oh yeah, incase it's necessary to know the machine that's connected to the net is a windows machine and it's OS3.9 that Im trying to get online via serial cable.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Karlos on February 03, 2010, 12:28:31 AM
Can you not get a proper NIC? Seriously.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: fishy_fiz on February 03, 2010, 12:33:32 AM
lol. I very nearly wrote a little p.s. to say the conditions Im in absoultely require me to use a serial connection, but refrained from doing so. I have no free pci slots and no pcmcia connection (running amithlon).
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on February 03, 2010, 12:41:20 AM
I would be interested in a solution to this problem also, as there is no other way to go online from a CD32 and I would love to have my CD32 on the network as well.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Karlos on February 03, 2010, 12:44:01 AM
Doesnt SANA-II have SLIP drivers?
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: tone007 on February 03, 2010, 12:45:32 AM
This http://www.tivohelp.com/archive/tivohelp.swiki.net/45.html might be worth a shot.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: mrmkl on February 03, 2010, 01:46:24 AM
Hello. Half-way off-topic reply: for Unix/Linux + Amiga there is Mlink (Multilink)
At aminet: http://aminet.net/package/comm/net/mlink132
If you have some extra linux pc for this you could use it between Amiga and the windows PC.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: amiga92570 on February 03, 2010, 02:27:26 AM
Quote from: mrmkl;541286
Hello. Half-way off-topic reply: for Unix/Linux + Amiga there is Mlink (Multilink)
At aminet: http://aminet.net/package/comm/net/mlink132
If you have some extra linux pc for this you could use it between Amiga and the windows PC.


I used Multilink with a 500 a while back and it works well.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: desiv on February 03, 2010, 04:24:21 AM
Worth a shot.  Now the initial response will probably be that he said he has a Windows machine, not Linux, so how would he get the needed "unix" shell account multilink needs?

All he needs is a small Linux VM running under VMWare (or one of the other virtualizers) on his windows machine.

I haven't used that multilink, but I think I'll look into it myself, as I have lots of Linux running already.

desiv
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: EvilGuy on February 03, 2010, 04:45:53 AM
There was a slirp client for the Amiga that worked with a Windows host. Mind you, I last used that in 1995 :-)
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on February 03, 2010, 05:44:37 AM
I run Linux (and not Windows) on the laptop here so Multilink might just be the thing for me too. Now I just need one of those USB-Serial adapters.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 03, 2010, 09:16:22 AM
There is the recipe for connecting an a600 to the net over a serial link:

Ingredients:
- A fonera 2.0g router (in developer mode)
- A serial to USB adapter and the corresponding module (driver).
- Extra slip module for the fonera (compiled by me).
- Some slip tools & scripts for the fonera (compiled and wrote by me).
- Some extra iptables rules for the fonera's firewall (added by me, included on the scripts above).
- A null modem cable.
- An unexpanded Amiga 600. I've installed a 64Mb CF as HD, but you can built It from floppies.
- Workbench 2.x+
- AmiTCP 4 (demo version, of course).
- If you want a webserver, add the arexxwebserver package...

Preparation:
- Plug all cables and machines together.
(fonera usb port<---> USB to serial dongle <---> Null modem cable <---> Amiga 600 serial port)
- Turn on the machines.
- Install all the stuff into the fonera and restart It.
- Run Workbench.
- Install and configure AmiTCP to match your network settings using slip protocol.
- Configure arexxwebserver if you want It
- Run AmiTCP.

:D

That's what I did, and It works like a charm.
Of course, It's very sloooooooooooooow... But I's amazing what you can do with a 1Mb Chip Ram machine.
Now you can do networking betwen your slip machine (the amiga) and your wired and wifi machines, and/or internet too...  :D
 
The only advice:
The most reliable speed I got with serial.device was 9600 bps. You can use 19200 bps if you want, but you'll lose a lot of packets (about 25% on my tests).
You can use also cslip instead of plain slip, but It gives no much speed increase, and a bit more of cpu power load...

Extra tip:
Baudrate: 9600, hardware handsake (7 wires or CTS/RTS)
MTU: 576

I'll post all the details later (I'm at work now).
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 03, 2010, 09:41:04 AM
Quote from: Cammy;541303
I run Linux (and not Windows) on the laptop here so Multilink might just be the thing for me too. Now I just need one of those USB-Serial adapters.

Cammy, What distro do you use?
I can help you to configure your linux machine.
It's easy: You only need to include the slip support into the kernel (if you haven't It), as a module or recompiling It (the kernel).
After that, you only need to run slattach and bring up the interface.
Denpending on your distro, you'll need some routing and iptables rules too.
Of course, you must do It with the USB to Serial adapter plugged in and the null modem cable between It and your amiga :P
On the amiga side, you only need AmiTCP.
If you need more details, please send me a PM.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 03, 2010, 09:31:55 PM
Hey, here comes a little demo:

http://ferix.no-ip.org:2080

Please, be patient. Remember It's connected over a 9600bps link...

If you can't view It, please try later. It only serves one page at time (a memory restriction).
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on February 05, 2010, 04:21:12 AM
Hi Ferix, thanks for the quick guide and offer to help! At the moment I don't have a USB-Serial adapter yet, but I'm going to order some from DealExtreme. When they arrive I'd very much like to work out how to do this, mainly so I can get the CD32 online. Hopefully the connection to the net won't be too slow for me to play Dynamite, but I have a feeling it may be. I have Ubuntu on the laptop.

Your site is cute, just like the A600. It was nice to see it loading up from there. :)
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 05, 2010, 08:04:56 AM
Ubuntu? fine... You're a nice girl ;)
Please, remember you also need a nullmodem cable or adapter. They were easy to find some time ago, but I don't know if they are now.
Regarding to the link speed... I guess the CD32 could deal with a 19200 link, or even a bit more...
Even the A500/A600 can do that if they have real fast ram (same applies to A1000 and A2000).
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: jj on February 05, 2010, 10:25:37 AM
Cut your breakfast on a mirror.
 
Master, master
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 05, 2010, 01:08:50 PM
Taste me you will see
More is all you need
Dedicated to
How I'm killing you
...

Well, after this, let's try to maintain this thread on topic ;)
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: jj on February 05, 2010, 01:26:03 PM
Love them, been to see them twice , once in 92 and once in 2007
 
Welcome homke (Sanatariuim) my fav off Master of puppets album
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: tone007 on February 05, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
Black Album FTW!
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: jj on February 05, 2010, 04:22:36 PM
No, master of puppets easily their best albumn.  They did go shit with load/reload/st anger, but death magnetic a return to form
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 05, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: JJ;541690
No, master of puppets easily their best albumn.  They did go shit with load/reload/st anger, but death magnetic a return to form

Totally agree!!!
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: desiv on February 05, 2010, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: Cammy;541615
...but I'm going to order some from DealExtreme.

On a only semi-related note.  If you're going to order something from DealExtreme, you should pick up one of those $2 USB bluetooth adapters.

Not Amiga specific (at least not that I've come up with yet), but I threw one in my cart when I ordered just recently.  Figured $2, what the heck.

Got it yesterday, plugged it in, XP (Yes, my wife's laptop; she's not converted.. yet) recognized it, loaded drivers and I paired with my phone no problem.

I'm not sure why I'd need more, but the next order I place (come to think of it, I could use a USB-serial adapter.  Mine is OLD), I'll probably grab another. :-)

desiv
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Louis Dias on February 05, 2010, 06:51:59 PM
What about the old trick of using the old PDA serial-to-ethernet adapter?  I think the PDA was a Palm...
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on February 05, 2010, 11:27:52 PM
Quote from: lou_dias;541710
What about the old trick of using the old PDA serial-to-ethernet adapter?  I think the PDA was a Palm...

Hmm... It could be possible... but there are some disavantages.
First, It's a very old piece of hardware, and a rare one too.
Second, I don't know what "language" It talks, but for sure It's not slip or ppp, so you need some kind of proxy software.
The USB to serial approach seems to be the most realistic one. And It works too :P
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on February 07, 2010, 01:00:24 AM
Quote from: desiv;541704
On a only semi-related note.  If you're going to order something from DealExtreme, you should pick up one of those $2 USB bluetooth adapters.


Thanks for the tip, but I wouldn't have a use for it. I don't own any Bluetooth devices, including a phone, which is something I have never used before, and will never own. I will however get a few bits and pieces in the same order, like a USB Ethernet device to use with any Aros PC that doesn't have a supported Ethernet chipset or card in it. I just have to save up a little first before I order this stuff, I'm quite poor.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: mbueler on February 07, 2010, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: JJ;541690
No, master of puppets easily their best albumn.  They did go shit with load/reload/st anger, but death magnetic a return to form


I agree,but death magnetic has a very bad sound recording,lars`s druming is so distorded and I would love to smack him over the head with that snare drum of his.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on February 07, 2010, 02:07:29 AM
Could you be more specific on the setup?. I tried ages ago to set up a slip link between my a1200 and windows pc for internet sharing, but couldn't get it to work. Heck, i managed to get siamese rtg over serial, but never got the internet runnin over serial.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: desiv on February 07, 2010, 04:32:10 AM
Quote from: Cammy;541851
Thanks for the tip, but I wouldn't have a use for it.
No prob...

One of my "possible projects" is networking my Amiga 500 to the internet.
I'll start with straight serial, but I'm considering in the future getting a serial-to-bluetooth adapter so I can do this wirelessly.

Not sure if the $2 bluetooth adapter supports a serial port emulation, and I think the serial-to-bluetooth adapter I'd need on the Amiga side would need "modem emulation" which I believe would up the price.  But I've just started looking into it.

I have heard from someone at amibay that she used a wireless parallel device and parnet on the Amiga side to do something similar.  Would probably be faster, but as an old telco person, I like serial. :-)

desiv
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on March 20, 2010, 07:25:28 AM
I received my Serial-to-USB adapters this week, so I'm going to test my A1200 and A600 going online over the null-modem cable using this USB adapter plugged into my Linux laptop. If I'm successful, hopefully the connection will be fast enough for me to run Dynamite online. Does anyone know if a game like this would work on a dialup-speed connection? I made a (crappy) video of Dynamite and AmiNetRadio running on the A1200 030, but it's using a PCMCIA Ethernet card, and YouTube cut the audio out, but you can see the game running here, for those who have no idea what Dynamite is - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72NjheWP-A
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on March 20, 2010, 08:30:15 AM
Cammy, I'll help you to setup the linux host. Send me a PM ;)
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on March 20, 2010, 10:49:47 AM
Hi Ferix, could you talk me through it next time you catch me on MSN? I'm kind of excited to try this. :)
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: ferix on March 20, 2010, 10:51:31 AM
Ok, I'll try to catch you, but I didn't see you on MSN for a month...
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on July 22, 2012, 11:55:41 AM
I'm sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but can anyone manage to compile the Unix version of Multilink for Linux? I have tried but it fails, and all I need is that executable file and I should be able to go online with my other Amigas without even needing to run AmiTCP or Miami.

The Unix source code is included in this package, with instructions in the MLink.guide file: http://aminet.net/package/comm/net/mlink132
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: mongo on July 22, 2012, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: Cammy;700988
I'm sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but can anyone manage to compile the Unix version of Multilink for Linux? I have tried but it fails, and all I need is that executable file and I should be able to go online with my other Amigas without even needing to run AmiTCP or Miami.

The Unix source code is included in this package, with instructions in the MLink.guide file: http://aminet.net/package/comm/net/mlink132


I've compiled it, but I currently have no way to test it to see if it works.

You can get it here : http://www.sendspace.com/file/b3a6wf
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on July 23, 2012, 03:58:32 AM
Thank you for compiling this for me, Mongo! I haven't been able to get any of this thing working yet, I don't have any experience with terminal networking so it could be a while before I even know if the executable file works. I should have mentioned I'm using a 32bit PC for Linux in this case.

I wonder if anyone has ever had Multilink working through a null-modem cable before, or were they all using dialup modems, which is what the documentation assumes you're using.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on July 23, 2012, 01:57:21 PM
Got it sorted out, Cammy?. I will try that program when time permits, as i always wanted to connect to the net the amigas over serial. I only need a console shell, and serial is plenty of speed for that. Using a ssh connection over one of my unix/linux machines should get me on the net perfectly with lynx.
Thanks in advance!!!
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Cammy on July 30, 2012, 11:47:04 PM
After much stuffing around, I discovered that the A1200's serial port I was using didn't work, so after switching to another Amiga and with lots of patient help from ferix, I have managed to get it working! That's right, I am browsing the web, chatting on IRC, and even directly controlling the PC and seeing its display on my Amiga, connected to the PC via a serial null-modem cable using Multilink. That means I don't even need a TCP/IP stack running, so it's got to be the best solution for low-end Amigas, and the speed is fine! I suppose it's comparable to a fast dialup modem on a good line, which was absolutely fine for the internet until broadband came along.

In fact, since you are using a PC as the host it's possible to browse the web using Opera or Chrome or Firefox through TwinVNC on a separate Intuition screen or in a window on Workbench, so the PC handles the huge websites with its connection and spits out the results to your Amiga quickly.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: gunni on July 31, 2012, 12:03:45 AM
I use a slip setup with linux and my amiga 500, if anyone is interested here's how I do it...
linux side

  sudo modprobe slip
  sudo slattach -v -d -p slip -s 19200 /dev/ttyS0 &
  sudo ifconfig sl0 192.168.1.34 pointopoint 172.16.180.2 up
  sudo ifconfig sl0 mtu 576

  sudo iptables -A FORWARD -o eth0 -i sl0 -s 172.16.180.0/24 -m conntrack --ctstate NEW -j ACCEPT
  sudo iptables -A FORWARD -m conntrack --ctstate ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
  sudo iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE

  sudo sh -c "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward"

amiga side

ip addr 172.16.180.2
  host amiga
  #
  mbox thirdparty on
  mbox attend on
  mbox sysop on
  mbox timer 1833
  #
  attach asy serial.device 0 slip sl0 32768 576 19200
  ifconfig sl0 netmask 0xffffffff broadcast 172.16.180.2
  #
  tcp timertype linear
  tcp trace off
  ip ttl 64

and I use this script for the connection
Quote
sudo modprobe slip
sudo slattach -v -d -p slip -s 19200 /dev/ttyUSB0 &
sudo ifconfig sl0 192.168.1.34 pointopoint 172.16.180.2 up
sudo ifconfig sl0 mtu 576

sudo iptables -A FORWARD -o eth1 -i sl0 -s 172.16.180.0/24 -m conntrack --ctstate NEW -j ACCEPT
sudo iptables -A FORWARD -m conntrack --ctstate ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
sudo iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE

sudo sh -c "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward"
hope that's of help to someone!
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: mutch on July 31, 2012, 12:47:05 AM
While not as sophisticated as the above, a simple way is BBS Server, which allows access from the Amiga via null modem serial cable through a winpc connected to the internet. Its a modem emulator, easy to set up, and works well. You can connect to BBS's, check email, chat etc. Download it from a real C=64 BBS, link below. Instructions on pdf are there also.

http://www.jammingsignal.com/leif/bbs/

Cheers mutch.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: k4lmp on July 31, 2012, 02:19:36 PM
Cammy, I am very interested in this for my A2000.  Can you post a kind of tutorial on how you did it?  I would very much appreciate it.  I already have my A2000 connected to a  Windows XP machine with a  null modem cable for file transfer.  I was also considering with a linux box, as my main PC is running linux.

Thanks,
Jeff
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: AAACHIPSET on July 31, 2012, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;541273
The topic says it all really. I assume its possible to do, but I have no idea how to do it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Oh yeah, incase it's necessary to know the machine that's connected to the net is a windows machine and it's OS3.9 that Im trying to get online via serial cable.

would  a a1200  connected  by parallel  port  to  laptop running xp  be able to access  internet  ..i can access  a usb  drive  like that  ..just curious if my 1200 could  go online  through a usb  connected  wireless  internet ..
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: Nostalgiac on July 31, 2012, 10:32:58 PM
I don't want to spoil the party... but the fact that an Ami can display a VNC shared display from a "today"'s PC/Mac/Linux... proofs what ? Surfing the internet over such a remoted display ?

hum
Tom UK
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: desiv on August 01, 2012, 12:08:39 AM
Quote from: Nostalgiac;701720
I don't want to spoil the party...
Why do I sense that there's a "but coming up???
Quote from: Nostalgiac;701720
but
I knew it.. Dang it..  So close..
Quote from: Nostalgiac;701720
the fact that an Ami can display a VNC shared display from a "today"'s PC/Mac/Linux... proofs what ?
Oh, I know that one, it's that...
Quote from: Nostalgiac;701720
Surfing the internet over such a remoted display ?

Dude!!!  You didn't even let me try to answer!!!!
Asking questions that you just answer yourself is definitely a way to spoil any party!!
I ain't inviting you, that's for sure..
I bet you do the same with pictionary...  
You draw a picture and then say "It's a dog"...
:biglaugh: :rofl: :banana:

desiv
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: kickstart on August 01, 2012, 12:56:09 AM
Solve issues using pm, messenger or whatever isnt usefull for users... its the problem of this forum, dont have tutorials for newbies or threads of interest about amiga tricks.
Title: Re: Sharing an internet connection over serial cable
Post by: orange on August 01, 2012, 07:11:20 AM
once again, this: http://bwinton.latte.ca/Palm/ppp.html
can help you with Windows side