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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: rednova on January 30, 2010, 12:29:49 AM
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Dear Friends:
I have the latest lightwave 3d for my super pc.
I have a classic amiga 1200 with complete aladdin 4d.
I have been using both for many years.
Now I would like to get into 'imagine' for my amiga 1200.
I just got the complete imagine package for amiga, disks and manuals.
I am very excited...I think imagine will prove very valuable.
I have a question:
Can anyone tell me anything about imagine ?
Anyone ever used it for fun ?
I would love to learn imagine -amiga-...in addition to lightwave and aladdin.
Pls tell me about imagine !!!
rednova
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I've used Imagine quite often, both the PC and Amiga version. The learning curve is slightly high if you want to take the time and figure out its quirks. I've found that the PC version is better, due to the speed in rendering. What used to take all night is now done in just a few minutes.
What's to say? Its your average 3D program. Just take a look in the 3D area of Aminet and you'll see plenty of examples of what folks used to make with it.
http://www.imagine3d.org
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I had imagine back in the day. I wouldn't bother with i unless you get it for free and are seriously interested in studying the history of 3d software.
If you already like and use lightwave it's several magnitudes better than Imagine.
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I agree with Crom00.... Imagine can make some impressive images, but on the whole I find it far less user-friendly than Lightwave... As an example, Imagine will happily let your render a scene without any lights...oooh, I just rendered a black screen.... :lol: Lightwave always has one light in the scene by default, but of course, you can edit, or delete it if you wish.... The thing I love about LW is the little 'status window' that comes up before rendering, helps to remind me of 'silly' little things like lights, image/animation saving, etc. ....
My .02 ... Find a 3D prog. that you are most comfortable with, then learn everything you can about it.. If any program feels like a 'chore' to use, you'll never spend enough time with it to produce decent images... IIRC, both Imagine and Lightwave had mailing lists with quite a bit of info....
Time to look thru my LightROM CD's , methinks....
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I would go for Blender (you said you had a super PC) if it mustn't be Amiga. Blender evolves all the time and it's pretty amazing what it already does. The learning curve is huge I guess but I'm sure it pays off in the end if you're in for serious rendering work too.
I played with it's sculpt tool a lot and it's just amazing. I've used imagine in the past too and it was good enough back then but today I wouldn't bother when there's alternatives.
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IMO the best rendering software for Amiga is Cinema 4D version 4. You'll be able to set up your first animation-not just scene but animation-complete with lights, textures, motion paths in half an hour. It lacks some high end features like collision detection, but its key frame animation system lets you animate any object property you like eg size, speed, texture, texture, transparancy very very easily. Stuff that takes weeks to learn in Imagine you can learn in a few days with Cinema 4D.
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It's been a long, long time since Ive used it, but I used to like Imagine. Amiga Format ran a good multi part tutorial that I followed eagerly back in "the day". By the time Imagine 5 was released on the CU Amiga cover cd though Id moved on and started using Cinema4d. Although Ive also used it I never really liked Lightwave much. It didnt seem as intuitive to me as some of the other options.
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I've been learning Amiga 3d rendering software this past year and have been really enjoying it. I bought Aladdin4d and it's very powerful and runs well on the lastest Amiga OS (with RTG, etc). The interface is a little "clinical" I find. I've also been learning Lightwave 5.0 on the Amiga. It's much more intuitive I find -- the interface is friendlier and I like the way keyframes are set up.
I've had Imagine on disk for a long time, but never had a manual for it - so I could never get my head around the workflow. I've love to buy a manual if anyone has one for sale (just PM me). I think the version I have was the latest one released on the coverdisk.
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Imagine is really good, besides the difficult learning curve. I remember back then, it was once a tough competitor for the highly praised Lightwave.
As i see it, still Lightwave was difficult for me. I liked Cinema 4D and the incredible simplicity of Tornado 3D.
By the way, the last version of Imagine was 5.19, and it is still supported and sold by the developers.
On the other hand, you can get the PC version for free at the website mentioned above!
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I used to be a heavy Imagine user. mainly due to free cover disks :)
Imagine was powerfull, but clunky to use, had great procedural texture generation.
It got my work into Amiga format, and then into the games industry, so I can't complain!
I learnt to use Imagine from Articles in Amiga magazines, which you could get from here:
http://amr.abime.net/
And the only Imagine site I know of:
http://www.imagine3d.org
Sadly those happy days are gone, and I'm now a 3D studio MAX wage slave.
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@rednova
I'm a dinosaur who loved Turbo Silver and only used Imagine a few times in the media labs at university. At the time, Imagine seemed to generate amazing output, and without the stupid resolution limits of TS, but I never really grokked the Imagine interface. It seemed very complex. But I never encountered the manual and maybe that would have helped.
I did get Imagine on some magazine coverdisks but IIRC they didn't work on NTSC systems. Or maybe I just didn't try hard enough.
I'd still be using Turbo Silver (as horribly primitive as it is) if it worked on my current system and could generate output at higher resolutions than old OCS modes.
There were a lot of Imagine tutorial articles in Amazing Computing, IIRC, and the images printed there always amazed me.
I now have Aladdin 4D but haven't taken the time to learn how to use it. I'd prefer a ray tracer. I'll try Blender when I manage to download it.
Is Imagine for Amiga still for sale somewhere?
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CAD Technologies is still selling Imagine 5.0 for Amiga and supposed to be developing version 6. http://imaginefa.com/
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But there won't be a version 6 for Amiga, long ago I e-mailed and asked but the answer was negative.
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...Imagine 5 was released on the CU Amiga cover cd...
it was version 4.0 in cu amiga cover disk.
i used imagine from v2.0 with an a500/+2mb ram up to 4.0 in my a1200 and i had found the manual of 2.0 from a friend.
i made my avatar with v3.0 or 4.0 http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1318 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../gallery/index.php?n=1318)
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Version 4 was on a cover disk (floppies). V5 was on a cover cd.
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Version 4 was on a cover disk (floppies). V5 was on a cover cd.
I can't understand how anyone can use 3d software on an Amiga in this day and age. Even an ancient dual Pentium Pro 200 rendered soooo much faster than a top of the line 060 machine. LW was never ported to Power PC on the Amiga. As soon as the higher speed Pentiums came into play the Amiga was no loger viable for 3d.
I used my Amiga for video editing as the Flyer was great. I could render Lightwave frames to a Jazz drive and connect that to the A4000 T and assemble the frames for playback in the Video Toaster Flyer or Par.
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Sure, but how is what youve quoted relevant to your response ? :)
CU Amiga coverdiscs are hardly "this day and age". Back then I had no PC, so even though pentiums were available at the time it's hardly going to render faster for me if I dont have one. :)
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i didn't have a pc too until december 2001. i bought one only for settlers 4 :lol:
btw i don't remember imagine5 on cu's cover cds... what was the issue?
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I could be mistaken, it mightve been version 3 on floppies and v4 on cover CD. I seem to recall it was V5, but Im not 100% sure. It was a later version than any of the floppy disc versions I saw that were given away. Unfortunately I lost all of my Amiga magazines and most of my cover cds over time, so I cant check. I do recall it was one of the later CU Amiga magazines that it was on though. Probably within the last half dozen issues.
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By the way, the last version of Imagine was 5.19, and it is still supported and sold by the developers.
On the other hand, you can get the PC version for free at the website mentioned above!
I registered at that website in order to download the PC version of Imagine. It said I would get an e-mail response with a registration/login confirmation link, but I didn't receive any such e-mail! Can someone who has access to the free version there post it or send it to me? Thanks.
Kind of frustrating. The software is now free but you can't find in *anywhere* on the 'net except one place, and the one place where it is won't let you have access to it (everything but Imagine 2.0 for Windows is freely downloadable - for Imagine you have to register).
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@ RedNova
I started with Imagine 2, having struggled with Real3D. Imagine 3.0 was a big step forward & the Manual made a lot more sense than the Imagine 2 manual ever did. There is still a bit of a learning curve though. I've tinkered with a friends copy of Imagine 4 which has a few extra features over 3, but not massively.
In productivity terms, Lightwave is a far far superior program, but it has a much higher learning curve than Imagine 3 onwards imo.
I haven't used Imagine 3 for years, though I still have a Manual & the disks packed away in a box somewhere....
Good luck with where ever you go with this. Whatever you decide, I'm sure you'll have fun. It always is with an Amiga. :D
Kin
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I registered at that website in order to download the PC version of Imagine. It said I would get an e-mail response with a registration/login confirmation link, but I didn't receive any such e-mail! Can someone who has access to the free version there post it or send it to me? Thanks.
Kind of frustrating. The software is now free but you can't find in *anywhere* on the 'net except one place, and the one place where it is won't let you have access to it (everything but Imagine 2.0 for Windows is freely downloadable - for Imagine you have to register).
I was referring to version 4.0 for PC, but not for Windows, for good old DOS. Of course, you can use it under Windows. It is about 12 MB long, so if you still want it, give me a confirmation and i will put it online.
PS: Direct link http://www.imagine3d.org/modules/wfdownloads/visit.php?cid=1&lid=223
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This is the link to the very last version for Windows, 2.19: http://www.imagine3d.org/modules/wfdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=13&lid=202
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@IslDreamer
Your link is only valid for registered users which are logged in, all others cant download it.
You may put it in an online storage website (mediafire, rapidshare, etc)
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By the way. All the files you need are in the 2.0 folder available at imagine.org, the 2.19 you're referring to is only a program file to replace the 2.0 version.
Also, until Johan gets permission from Impulse, its not freeware. Do not take the program and put it on a share site. Registering is free though.
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This is the link to the very last version for Windows, 2.19: http://www.imagine3d.org/modules/wfdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=13&lid=202
Yup, can't access that link. Only for registered users (and the registration process doesn't work).
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This site, CAD Technologies, has an archive page with downloads of TurboSilver, Imagine V1, Imagine V2.9, Imagine V3.0 and Imagine 4.0. I downloaded 4.0 but found Disk 2 has checksum errors. Can anyone confirm if the ADF produces errors for you? I previously had 3.0 installed, and the partial install of 4.0 gave me a working floating point 4.0 version.
The site has information about purchasing later version(s). These version are labeled as historical.
No sign of an Imagine manual online that I have found. This page as The TurboSilver manual, but that's probably not useful for the later versions.
The link... http://www.imaginefa.com/
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@mbrantley
Here you have as attachment the manual and related documentation of the Amiga variant of Imagine 4.
I hope you find them usefull :)
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Grab yourself a copy of Steve Worleys "understanding imagine"
I own 3 copies myself LOL... this book together with the manual will make learning how to use Imagine alot of fun...
I'd like to buy Imagine for OS4.x but I'm just holding of a little...
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This site, CAD Technologies, has an archive page with downloads of TurboSilver, Imagine V1, Imagine V2.9, Imagine V3.0 and Imagine 4.0.
The link... http://www.imaginefa.com/
Some of the renders on that site are absolutely stunning:
http://www.imaginefa.com/gallery.shtml
I wonder if they were really done in Imagine for Amiga. If so, I'm VERY impressed at what this "old" piece of software can do....it seems to me the quality of images still hold up today.
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Grab yourself a copy of Steve Worleys "understanding imagine"
I own 3 copies myself LOL... this book together with the manual will make learning how to use Imagine alot of fun...
This book doesn't seem to be available for purchase anywhere. Amazon.ca and Amazon.com don't list it, and a general Google search pulls up news about the book, but no retailers. Want to sell or trade a copy?
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Some of the renders on that site are absolutely stunning:
http://www.imaginefa.com/gallery.shtml
I wonder if they were really done in Imagine for Amiga. If so, I'm VERY impressed at what this "old" piece of software can do....it seems to me the quality of images still hold up today.
No way were some of them done on the amiga, far too hires and unless imagine 4 up to current standards or a lot of photoshop donw aftwards ?
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No way were some of them done on the amiga, far too hires and unless imagine 4 up to current standards or a lot of photoshop donw aftwards ?
They look perfectly achievable to me. Imagine is not limited to screen resolution. The user specifies width, height, and aspect ratio. Also, the quality of Imagine's output is very good. There's a good chance that no retouching was necessary.
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No way were some of them done on the amiga, far too hires and unless imagine 4 up to current standards or a lot of photoshop donw aftwards ?
Check out these great tutorials from Imagine artist Lahl. She is able to achieve the most "state of the art" image quality with the software. http://members.iinet.net.au/~multispud22/lahl/tutorials/tutorials.htm
The problem with Imagine isn't the raytrace renderer; it's the software's workflow that is hopelessly obsolete vs. contemporary 3d applications.
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Dear Amigans:
I have a super PC system with complete lightwave and is amazing for animation.
However...I got a little extra time to kill...and I would love to make animation
on my old amiga just for fun. I am already using aladdin 4d (on amiga) and I just acquired Imagine with its manuals/disks. I am looking forward to use Imagine just for fun
and see how far I can push my amiga for 3d animation. This is just for fun...I want to make new animations on my amiga.
I could apply all I learned from lightwave...then see if I can make great Imagine renders.
Love,
rednova
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Good luck! It will be a challenge to deal with the slow rendering speeds of Imagine on the Amiga vs. what you're accustomed to seeing with Lightwave on a modern pc.
You can find some Imagine tutorial videos I produced back in the early 90's at Imagine3d.org, along with some great documentation like the I-Files Manual.
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Check out these great tutorials from Imagine artist Lahl. She is able to achieve the most "state of the art" image quality with the software. http://members.iinet.net.au/~multispud22/lahl/tutorials/tutorials.htm
The problem with Imagine isn't the raytrace renderer; it's the software's workflow that is hopelessly obsolete vs. contemporary 3d applications.
So I guess that most of the best demo pictures on the developer for the developer of Imagine on the Amiga (link above in this thread) weren't done on the Amiga version after all. Lahl did them, and while she used to work with Amiga, the examples of her work used on the Amiga Imagine site were rendered in version 2.0 for Windows.
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The Impulse rendering engine in both the Amiga and PC versions of Imagine were the same. I don't know whether the renderer was updated in later releases of Imagine for the Amiga. You will need to check the release logs over at CAD Technologies (http://www.imaginefa.com)
You can definitely achieve the same results as Lahl describes with the Amiga version, but it will take you longer to render each frame.
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I bought Aladdin4d and it's very powerful and runs well on the lastest Amiga OS (with RTG, etc). The interface is a little "clinical"
About Aladdin4D:
1. If I buy it, it will come to me with manuals?
2. Can I model with (meta)nurbs/SDS modelling? Just like LightWave when I hit TAB key?
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Dear Friend:
1- yes, aladdin 4d should come with its manual...and also a cd version to use with emulation on pc WINUAE, which is very good.
2- No, aladdin does not have metanurbs (tab key), but a new version - v6 - is supposed to come out very soon and it will probably be good.
Aladdin is great 3d software for amiga and also for use with WINUAE.
Cheers !!!
rednova
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9H6Vv7KyMg
Modelled and scened on my Amiga 4000. All graphics in the games you see are rendered in Imagine too. If you're wondering why I'm still using Imagine then the answer is simple: "I don't want to spend time to learn another program as I can do so much already with it, including generating custom textures and stuff" :-)
(rendering itself is done using WinUAE on my PC though)
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And this is one of two developed 3d software for Amiga. I try to find some tutorials, but there is nothing on web and Aladdin4D forum is dead...