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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: mingle on January 19, 2010, 02:01:24 PM

Title: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: mingle on January 19, 2010, 02:01:24 PM
Hi all,

I've just looking at SheepShaver (the open-source PPC Mac emulator) and a completely unrelated thought came to me:

How hard would it be to borrow/intergrate the SheepShaver source code into WinUAE to make PPC emulation possible?

Now please don't jump on/flame me, as it's just me thinking out loud :-)

I can imagine that a lot of people would be very happy to be able to run OS4.x on their x86 boxes? :-)

Cheers,

Mike.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: _ThEcRoW on January 19, 2010, 02:03:49 PM
The actual developer of winuae stated that he is not interested. It's a shame, because a ppc integration would give the classic ppc amigas a boost, since could eb possible to run OS4 on it.
Maybe someday someone will try it out, as the source is freely available.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: mingle on January 19, 2010, 02:06:11 PM
Ah, okay... It is a pity...

How about giving him an incentive with a "PPC for WinUAE" bounty? :-)

I'd chip in AU$100 straight away!

Cheers,

Mike.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: coldfish on January 19, 2010, 03:18:39 PM
It's only a matter of time before someone adds PPC to Amiga emulation. Then we can all enjoy the majesty of OS4, boot it a few times out of curiosity, get bored and never look at it again.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: mingle on January 19, 2010, 10:53:53 PM
Ha Ha! True... In all honesty, I usually just boot WinUAE just out of a sense of nostalgia and curiosity...

But the same goes for my A500 and also my ex-A1200, and my C64 & Vic-20!
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Gulliver on January 19, 2010, 11:00:47 PM
I wish it was a matter of time! Tony Wilen, the current WinUAE developer, has expressed several times he wont add PPC support. Nowadays he only seems interested in making WinUAE bloated by adding a zillion of obscure features normal users wont use. It is a pitty, he is really a very good developer!
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Hell Labs on January 19, 2010, 11:14:09 PM
Battery powered clock emulation anyone? I don't think anyone could ever conceivably need that, but it's there anyway. PPC emu? nah we can't add that in case people actually use it.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: stefcep2 on January 20, 2010, 03:51:33 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;539207
I wish it was a matter of time! Tony Wilen, the current WinUAE developer, has expressed several times he wont add PPC support. Nowadays he only seems interested in making WinUAE bloated by adding a zillion of obscure features normal users wont use. It is a pitty, he is really a very good developer!

his aim was always to make the most complete classic emulator ie as close to the real thing, as is possible,
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Gulliver on January 20, 2010, 04:03:26 AM
@stefcep2

I know but then, why is he so keen on not adding PPC support. he has explained his reasons, but at the end, it is just that he doesnt want to do it!
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: kolla on January 20, 2010, 04:40:43 AM
Why on earth add PPC to WinUAE for running OS4 when there's nothing in OS4 that depends on amiga hardware? I dont grasp this wish for PPC emulation in UAE at all. Instead you should just add the needed bits to let QEmu emulate an AmigaOne or whatever. The only version of OS4 that runs on PowerUp boards is a very raw and unsupported OS4.0. And yes, I do find proper emulation of RTC incredibly more usefull than PPC emulation.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: persia on January 20, 2010, 04:47:38 AM
We all just want to run OS4 on a PC so that we can have the "Meh" experience it brings.  Wouldn't PearPC be a good starting point for that?
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: EvilGuy on January 20, 2010, 04:59:18 AM
PowerPC fetishists strike again!
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Gulliver on January 20, 2010, 05:07:43 AM
DREAM MODE ON
Not only OS4, but there are also nice OS 3.x WarpOS apps and games (Wipeout 2097, an a DVD videoplayer i cant remember, and a couple of cool emulators).
Of course the possibility of running OS4 is not a bad idea, so that we can finally get rid of the dongle it requires to work (SAM).
MorphOS could also be supported.
DREAM MODE OFF
;)
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: kolla on January 20, 2010, 05:12:12 AM
Quote from: persia;539273
We all just want to run OS4 on a PC so that we can have the "Meh" experience it brings.  Wouldn't PearPC be a good starting point for that?


Sure, if you prefer to start with a dead project with no active development instead of something that is actively developed, like qemu. A certaint MorphOS developer tweaked qemu to simulate a pegasos enough to launch MorphOS at some point, it is not magic but does require some work, and access to the real hardware does ofcourse help.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Golem!dk on January 20, 2010, 05:16:03 AM
Well... luckily WinUAE comes with source, so anyone is free to add PPC (BPPC/CSPPC if it is going to work with anything) emulation.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: kolla on January 20, 2010, 05:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;539278
DREAM MODE ON
Not only OS4, but there are also nice OS 3.x WarpOS apps and games (Wipeout 2097, an a DVD videoplayer i cant remember, and a couple of cool emulators).


My mind boggles... why do you want to run Wipeout 2097 in an emulator when you can simply run the windows version of that game?! I cant think of any game for Amiga/PPC that wasnt a port anyways. And running emulators inside an emulator instead of directly ... what a waste!

Quote
Of course the possibility of running OS4 is not a bad idea, so that we can finally get rid of the dongle it requires to work (SAM).


You still need the dongle to run OS4.1, only OS4.0 runs on PowerUp, and  IIRC you cannot even run OS4.0 on SAM in the first place.

Quote
MorphOS could also be supported.
DREAM MODE OFF
;)


Yeah, old MorphOS 1.4 was so great, we much rather want that than running current MorphOS on Qemu - definetly! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Gulliver on January 20, 2010, 05:27:36 AM
Why?
Just for the fun of it!
If not for what else do you use an Amiga emulator?
As you clearly said there are lots of Windows/Linux/Mac tools and games 1000% percent better than Amiga, so if you are into Amiga emulation, it is just for enjoyment, nostalgia or something along the lines
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Hell Labs on January 20, 2010, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: kolla;539281
My mind boggles... why do you want to run Wipeout 2097 in an emulator when you can simply run the windows version of that game?! I cant think of any game for Amiga/PPC that wasnt a port anyways. And running emulators inside an emulator instead of directly ... what a waste!



You still need the dongle to run OS4.1, only OS4.0 runs on PowerUp, and  IIRC you cannot even run OS4.0 on SAM in the first place.



Yeah, old MorphOS 1.4 was so great, we much rather want that than running current MorphOS on Qemu - definetly! :rolleyes:

The amigaOS port of wipeout had the best graphics. And it makes more sense to emulate morphos 1.4 because of the extra speed, and COST. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't shell out for a keyfile unless I was using it CONSTANTLY. osx is what, £25? Besides which, why emulate amigaos at all? it's not like you need to do it. what a waste.

WHY? because we can.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Karlos on January 20, 2010, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: Hell Labs;539211
Battery powered clock emulation anyone? I don't think anyone could ever conceivably need that, but it's there anyway. PPC emu? nah we can't add that in case people actually use it.

I think you'll find the RTC is already emulated in UAE for a very, very long time :)

Besides, it is useful. I can't imagine using a machine these days that can't remember the date and time.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Linde on January 20, 2010, 04:50:34 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;539207
I wish it was a matter of time! Tony Wilen, the current WinUAE developer, has expressed several times he wont add PPC support. Nowadays he only seems interested in making WinUAE bloated by adding a zillion of obscure features normal users wont use. It is a pitty, he is really a very good developer!


Yeah, and this is a great way to thank him for actively developing one of the most extensive and advanced computer emulators there are. The "zillion of obscure features" are there because in the end they are what makes emulation accurate.

Oh well, the thrill of playing 320x200 Quake in 30 fps (or, as someone else suggested, running some shitty emulators or wipeout) must surely be worth the effort of totally changing the scope of the project and adding PPC emulation.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Hell Labs on January 20, 2010, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: Karlos;539341
I think you'll find the RTC is already emulated in UAE for a very, very long time :)

Besides, it is useful. I can't imagine using a machine these days that can't remember the date and time.

but the battery backed clock option is pointless, WinUAE sets the amiga time from the PC side anyway. Why bother having a menu option to turn it on and off?
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: unusedunused on January 20, 2010, 07:07:30 PM
Quote from: Golem!dk;539280
Well... luckily WinUAE comes with source, so anyone is free to add PPC (BPPC/CSPPC if it is going to work with anything) emulation.


OS4 for cybppc is very outdate and seem not update anymore.So have running OS4 on winuae make absolute no sense.

If somebody want run MOS, the best way is use sheepshaver, emulate a Mac mini and install MOS.
then maybe MOS can use by more users on cheap Hardware and i can test myself how fast OWB on MOS work ;-)

But whats the problem to run MOS on sheepshaver currently.I dont know anything about MAC.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Crom00 on January 20, 2010, 07:14:06 PM
A good reason is that I can walk into Microcenter here in the sates. Walk out with a $950 Quad Core Intel PC...

and with that same $950 + AmigaOs$4 and WINUAEPPC I support OS4 but purchasing OS4 and running it on acutal hardware instead of a SAM, or CVPPC card. Funny thing it'll probably run faster than the sam!
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Golem!dk on January 20, 2010, 07:34:23 PM
Quote from: Crom00;539418
Funny thing it'll probably run faster than the sam!


Or not at all.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: kolla on January 20, 2010, 07:46:59 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;539284
Why?
Just for the fun of it!

I very much doubt that adding PowerUp emulation can be sorted under "fun".
We talk here about rather obscure pieces of hardware that AFAIK aren't very well documented, and with heaploads of corner case issues.

Quote
As you clearly said there are lots of Windows/Linux/Mac tools and games 1000% percent better than Amiga, so if you are into Amiga emulation, it is just for enjoyment, nostalgia or something along the lines


And where does PowerUp fit in here? I bought a CSPPC in 1997 for way too much money, and a CVPPC quite soon after, yes there were a few games and apps, but I dont think any of them justifies the work. My PPC was quite clearly mostly used to accelerate media decoding, on UAE this is not a problem anyhow.

If you really think it makes sense, then go ahead and do it yourself. :)
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: kolla on January 20, 2010, 07:51:51 PM
Quote from: Crom00;539418
A good reason is that I can walk into Microcenter here in the sates. Walk out with a $950 Quad Core Intel PC...

and with that same $950 + AmigaOs$4 and WINUAEPPC I support OS4 but purchasing OS4 and running it on acutal hardware instead of a SAM, or CVPPC card. Funny thing it'll probably run faster than the sam!


"WINUAEPPC" would _only_ be able to run OS 4.0 and not 4.1+, and SAM440 does only run OS4.1+ and _not_ 4.0, so your statement is wrong regardless, as these systems run two different OSes. AFAIK.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Hell Labs on January 20, 2010, 08:00:19 PM
Quote from: bernd_afa;539417
If somebody want run MOS, the best way is use sheepshaver, emulate a Mac mini and install MOS.
then maybe MOS can use by more users on cheap Hardware and i can test myself how fast OWB on MOS work ;-)

But whats the problem to run MOS on sheepshaver currently.I dont know anything about MAC.

If that were possible people would do it. Sheepshaver emulates old world rom (older than the first iMac) macs with g3 processors and no graphics hardware at all (made possible by the fact mac os was designed originally just to use spare cpu cycles for graphics processing). The mac mini, and in fact everything apple made after 1998 is pretty much just a PC with open firmware to replace bios and a PPC wedged in. the sheepshaver style macs are very different.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Gulliver on January 20, 2010, 08:12:43 PM
No one can deny the tremendous work Toni Wilen has done on WinUAE. It is actually one of the best emulators on any platform thanks to him. These posts are not about being disgracefull, but simply telling we want some specific features.
The thing is simple: some of us wish we could run WarpOS/PowerUp/OS4 or whatever apps, games and demos. For too many of you, this seems terrible, for others it would simply be a cool feature.
On the other hand, the fun concept in an emulator is something subjective. If you dont find it cool, you should be open minded and think others might believe the contrary.

For example, Amithlon has WarpOS emulation, and that, is one of the features despite its age that still make it a great emulation enviroment. So please dont tell me that it cannot be achieved, it is a matter of will and hard work.

Dont be so viral about it! :)
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Golem!dk on January 20, 2010, 08:15:43 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;539428
For example, Amithlon has WarpOS emulation


No it doesn't.
Title: Re: PPC emulation in WinUAE - could this help?
Post by: Gulliver on January 20, 2010, 08:45:30 PM
Ups my mistake :)