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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: mantisspider on November 14, 2003, 01:12:00 AM

Title: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: mantisspider on November 14, 2003, 01:12:00 AM
hi guys,

while surfing the net, i wondered to myself about the demise of the Atari ST and the words, piracy killed off the atari.

http://www.atari.com/
atari looks pretty healthy to me.

Quote

Q: Through its acquisition of Hasbro Interactive in 2001, Infogrames Entertainment SA became the owner of the Atari brand. What plans do you have for the Atari brand?

A: Atari is perhaps the most illustrious name in the interactive game industry and we are thrilled to have it as part of the Atari family. We want to be true to the innovation that marked Atari's launch 20 years ago. With that in mind, we are re-inventing Atari for a new generation. Our inaugural titles, Splashdown, MXRider and Transworld Surf, all of which will launch in November 2001, capture the qualities we believe will define the re-invented Atari. They are innovative, unique, exhilarating, breakthrough, and genre defining games. You can expect to see a great deal more from us regarding Atari in the months ahead.


amiga vs atari ? a pyrrhic victory
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: that_punk_guy on November 14, 2003, 01:18:41 AM
At ASDA, for ~£17 you can buy these Atari-branded joysticks  which plug directly into your TV with a cheap micro built in which you can play Breakout, Space Invaders, Defender, etc on.

Kinda cool, but not as ace as actually having a 2600.
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: ottomobiehl on November 14, 2003, 01:20:24 AM
Quote
atari looks pretty healthy to me.


It is not the same atari as we all knew and loved back in the day.   I think they just use the name to sell games.

Also, I believe there is a group of dedicated fans who are maintaining, upgrading, and improving their Ataire ST's so I think Atari is about as demised as the Amiga is.

Plus, heard the argument that piracy killed off the Amiga too.  But, since the Amiga isn't demised either we know that it isn't true. :-D

It all comes down to perception I guess.   :-D
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: downix on November 14, 2003, 01:20:30 AM
Well, a unification of Atari and Amiga concepts would make one kickass computer.
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Karlos on November 14, 2003, 01:38:25 AM
As a platform, neither have died as each has its dedicated fan base.

Other than clone 680x0 based machines produced in reasonably small numbers where is the atari going?

Therefore, I would say that as a platform amiga is healthier. We have not one, but two hardware successors, each using more recent technologies and off the shelf components. I dont see any son-of-atari Peg/A1 style systems. We had PPC cards that reached the production stage (IIRC there were atari PPC cards that never got beyond the prototype stage).

Even as a 680x0 only machine we have better emulations with systems like WinUAE and Amithlon that surpass any atari emulation I have seen. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a higher proportion of 040/060 users in our userbase too, but that is pure conjecture on my part.

Then there is AROS, attempting to run everywhere...

As a company, possibly atari is in better shape than amiga inc, but it is definately a mere shadow of its former self.
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Debaser on November 14, 2003, 01:49:36 AM
Based upon what I have seen/read.. this thread is a bit silly really. What is going on in ST land isnt really anywhere compared to the Amiga OS side of things. A software company that buys the Atari name to sell some games doesn't qualify as a victor in the Amiga/Atari war. Then again if you are talking about "atari" as a product I guess they have the upper hand. But then again isn't it just a moot point..I mean its just a lable on an xbox game.

-Debaser
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Lo on November 14, 2003, 01:58:56 AM
Quote
Well, a unification of Atari and Amiga concepts would make one kickass computer.
Cool! [color=0000FF]_ATAMIGA!!_[/color]    And for the 3 letter acronymn...[color=CC0000]ATM!![/color]
(*sigh* , the real corporate world sucks)
 :pint:  Sorry, have been imbibing libations.. :-)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: ottomobiehl on November 14, 2003, 02:06:30 AM
Quote
Cool! _ATAMIGA!!_ And for the 3 letter acronymn...ATM!!


 :roll:  :-)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: lempkee on November 14, 2003, 02:15:28 AM
the atari name was bought up by INFOGRAMES in 2001/2 , they use it as a games publisher name and have had quite a success with it due to the fact that atari liscenses have been very big and of special games more or less.

but it has nothing to do with the orginal atari team and all atari users can confirm that and they rescent it!.

its like if Ocean all of a sudden started to produce hardware :)

anyway as we all know, atari was a really big thing in the early 80s to the later 80s with games in the arcades etc + a rather mediocre deal with williams till 1994 or so.


anyway amiga is further, but atari has AGP hacks for their systems , but still no ppc but they have had the coldfire for quite a while now :)

so its sorta even but seriously atari havent really made a name out of them selves the last years as in the fan base.., they ported a few late amiga games to the atari but thats about it.

cheers

pps:the demoscene is still hw bashing the falcon and i am still impressed , though i expect more in the future when they will get a standarized os for it, its basically a hack n slash os atm (bits and pieces...and as we all know...TOS aint really an os:) )
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Belxjander on November 14, 2003, 03:34:38 AM
Maybe Amiga developers can pull the Atari people into the fold by providing them an OS for the HW and they in turn may help the Amiga community with upgrades for our M68K Legacy systems in return ? best of both traditions working together instead of the pissing contest crap

just my 2c
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Karlos on November 14, 2003, 03:36:41 AM
Could be what Downix meant. Some of those atari clones had decent hardware (PCI/060/SDRAM) but TOS is just dreadful ;-)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: downix on November 14, 2003, 03:46:08 AM
@Karlos

TOS sucked, yes.  But MultiTOS is another story, closer in design to UNIX or Linux than TOS ever was.  Think of MultiTOS in the same relation as Windows vs Windows NT.
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Karlos on November 14, 2003, 03:48:42 AM
So marginally less crap then :lol:

Only kidding. MultiTOS was a much bigger step in the right direction, but to be fair, amigaos kicks its ass :-)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: TjLaZer on November 14, 2003, 03:54:38 AM
Well IMHO The Amiga won.  The ST was rushed so Atari could get the edge on Commodore.  This after Atari's failed attempt to buy the Amiga.  The ST was a cool machine but paled in comparison to the Amiga.  I collect nothing but Commodore and Atari systems.  And I can honestly say the Amiga is better hands down, and it reflected in the marketplace at the time too.  :)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Cyberus on November 14, 2003, 09:49:34 AM
MultiTOS - is that like a game of soggy biscuit? :lol:
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: KennyR on November 14, 2003, 09:53:58 AM
Amiga won. Atari was a dead duck when Amiga was just rising to its peak of power. It (Amiga) had better games, a better OS, and better hardware. The only successful Atari was the 2600.
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: bloodline on November 14, 2003, 10:12:41 AM
Who really won?

Sony... :-)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Madgun68 on November 14, 2003, 10:38:49 AM
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: downix on November 14, 2003, 06:15:17 PM
@Cyberus

MultiTOS is a UNIX-like kernel (called MiNT) that runs TOS in a virtual machine.  So you have two sides, the UNIX-like MiNT and the TOS-side for legacy apps.  

There are TOS-replacements, allowing totally GPL'd MultiTOS workalike OS's out there, such as FreeMiNT and SpareMiNT, including a way to emulate such on foreign hardware.
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: that_punk_guy on November 14, 2003, 06:21:34 PM
FreeMiNT, SpareMiNT...

Is there perchance a PepperMiNT flavour?

...

*hangs head in shame*
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Kronos on November 14, 2003, 06:21:50 PM
@lempkee

No Atari-CF-project ever reached production. The last one 1st called
"Pegasus"  :-o  and later renamed is more or less shelved due to
the CF still not being compatible enough, and honestly I expect
Oli's project to go the same way sooner or later (a real shame, but one
should stay realistic).
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Tomas on November 14, 2003, 07:06:16 PM
Atari was bought up by virgin software i think... so they now only develop games

Edit:
bough up by infogrames*
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: DoctorClu on November 14, 2003, 08:15:53 PM
        Speaking as both a Atari and Amiga user now, well, the Atari  name was never really owned by one person anyway (much like Amiga as I understand it).

        Went something like this... Bushell... Time Warner, Jack Tremiel, JTS, Hasbro, and then Infrograms.

        So we haven't had original ownership since like 1976!   And I assure you, Jack Tremiel's era did not produce pong units from Bushnells time.  So to say the current "Atari" is any more or less than the previous Atari's in my opinion is mute.

       Infrograms wisely changed to the Atari name, and have done well with it in my opinion.   Naturally, all hardware platforms continue on without the aid of the "Atari" named company.  Which in my opinion is just fine.  In some ways, the Atari platforms do better now on their own than back when they were being "aided" by Atari.
      (that last remark mirrors a few people feelings about Amiga and it's relation with Commodore.)

       The Atari ST survives with various clones based off the Falcon and TT.  The Milan (40/60) machine was sold till recently.  Recently Falcon users gained another production run of 060 boards for the Falcon.  As it stands, MagicOS is still being sold and improved, as well as various apps.  TOS is owned, last I heard by a company somewhere in Germany.  And in truth, most production for the ST/TT/Falcon happens in Europe.
       Atari still has a few sellers and resellers in the United States, and like the Amiga, a lot of various tinkering going on, and plans for future hardware and hardware hacks by the fan base.

      The Atari Jaguar is a community in and of itself, owned by no one but it's community since Atari (under Hasbro) released the gaming platform to the public domain.

      Did Atari, or Amiga, dominate the world?  No.  Who would want to?  I remember when all these people who have no love for computers started pouring in.  Let them have the windows environement and it's billion viruses.  Let Windows computers be at work.  It is nice to have nichte at home .. weither Atari or Amiga, or whatever, that you have a good idea that those involved really care about what they are doing.  At least you can be sure about 95% of the time right?  :)

       So why am I am Amiga user?  Well, there is a user group in the area, so I thought I'd join the fun.

       Though I don't know the story of Amiga to the detail of my account of Atari above, hearing Amiga's story seems like a mirror image to the Atari story.  Think of it.  :)

      Doctor Clu
      Amiga 3000 / Atari TT030 User
      (As well as Macintosh Duo & Newton 2000) ;)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Cyberus on November 14, 2003, 10:26:34 PM
Quote

that_punk_guy wrote:
FreeMiNT, SpareMiNT...

Is there perchance a PepperMiNT flavour?

...

*hangs head in shame*


How about DoubleMiNT

"Doesn't matter, cos I've got DoubleMiNT":-D

@tpg
We both really ought to learn to contribute properly to these discussions.... :-)
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: downix on November 14, 2003, 10:31:23 PM
Hey DoctorClu, are you the same DoctorClu from Atari Jaguar Interactive II?
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: that_punk_guy on November 14, 2003, 10:45:12 PM
Quote

Cyberus wrote:
Quote

that_punk_guy wrote:
FreeMiNT, SpareMiNT...

Is there perchance a PepperMiNT flavour?

...

*hangs head in shame*


How about DoubleMiNT

"Doesn't matter, cos I've got DoubleMiNT":-D

@tpg
We both really ought to learn to contribute properly to these discussions.... :-)


There's a discussion going on...? :lol:
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: kevh100 on November 14, 2003, 11:40:44 PM
Mmmmm MiNT Operating System... MiNTOS!

sorry!  :nervous:
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Karlos on November 14, 2003, 11:44:55 PM
Off topic...

@that_punk_guy

Quote
But... I don't wanna learn ANSI C!




/mental image of slowly contra-rotating black and white spirals...

Yes. Yes you do. Then you will be in a position to reach out towards C++, C#, java, javascript....

Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: Cyberus on November 15, 2003, 08:16:15 AM
Has anyone here used Objective C?
I tried to learn about it when I was at university for a project using Swarm- quite obscure, I guess it was what existed before the advent of C++...

Me braces myself to be patronised....
Title: Re: so who really won, amiga or atari?
Post by: bloodline on November 15, 2003, 10:33:55 AM
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Off topic...

@that_punk_guy

Quote
But... I don't wanna learn ANSI C!




/mental image of slowly contra-rotating black and white spirals...

Yes. Yes you do. Then you will be in a position to reach out towards C++, C#, java, javascript....



"Thinking in C++" by Bruce Ecle it's not great but a good place to start since it's free and downloadable.