Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Mangar on January 09, 2010, 05:37:44 PM
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Alright, Hyperion.
You generated a lot of buzz with the X1000 announcement. What are your plans to continue the momentum?
Flick the switch on that hype machine and get it going. Answer some of the questions posed by the community. Before the spark goes out.
I know it's been only a few days since the announcement but I worry that new news will be sporadic.
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"You generated a lot of buzz with the X1000 announcement. What are your plans to continue the momentum?"
i hope (or better i'm quite sure) enjoing theyr new business, like all (erm well ... some) of us should. :)
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They really should have had some ready to go into the hands of devs and reviewers. Saying "Oh man we're gonna release something so awesome!" then the pundits go "When?" and you dig your toe in the ground and look around and go "Hmm, hm...wha...oh? Us? Oh, uh, we're uh beta, that is to say, there's, the production run is sort of, you know how it is..." then lag for 18 months or whatever, not such a good strategy.
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Alright, Hyperion.
You generated a lot of buzz with the X1000 announcement. What are your plans to continue the momentum?
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Which momentum are u talking about ??? :)
Are u really comparing this "thing" with the Commodore Amiga 1000 which wowed us back in 1985 ??
It's all vapor and speculation, as usual.
What's sad, is that there's people (actually a tiny bunch of fanatics) who will buy it, thus feeding the speculation.
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They've learned nothing from Steve Jobs, the master of hype. Don't announce something if you don't have it, at least an evaluation version.
On the 27th Jobs is likely to announce a tablet Mac, he will have it on stage and it will be available in the next week or two. Once you have created the need you have to fill it right away.
Of course the Mac tablet will likely cost less and be far more powerful than the X1000...
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Of course the Mac tablet will likely cost less and be far more powerful than the X1000...
Who cares ?
People still buy netbooks even though they are far less powerful, and cost more than an old PC
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Of course the Mac tablet will likely cost less and be far more powerful than the X1000...
And more useful too.
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Who cares ?
People still buy netbooks even though they are far less powerful, and cost more than an old PC
That depends on which netbook your buying. If it's Atom based, that maybe a horse of a different color.
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Which momentum are u talking about ??? :)
Are u really comparing this "thing" with the Commodore Amiga 1000 which wowed us back in 1985 ??
It's all vapor and speculation, as usual.
What's sad, is that there's people (actually a tiny bunch of fanatics) who will buy it, thus feeding the speculation.
One one hand it's vapor but on the other you'll say people will buy it. And if we do we're fanatics.
I guess we should all leave this site and go to mac.org or windows.org. Like, who in their right mind would go through a multi-year court battle throwing money away to their lawyers for the 'right' to OS4 and beyond because this niche that only a tiny bunch of fanatics support dollar wise. They could probably be better off selling hot dogs on the street corner.
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They really should have had some ready to go into the hands of devs and reviewers. Saying "Oh man we're gonna release something so awesome!" then the pundits go "When?" and you dig your toe in the ground and look around and go "Hmm, hm...wha...oh? Us? Oh, uh, we're uh beta, that is to say, there's, the production run is sort of, you know how it is..." then lag for 18 months or whatever, not such a good strategy.
They said we'd see it before summer. It must be pretty close to done. Hyperion has been good about not doing vaporware stuff.
Do we know that developers don't already have some boards? They'd be under NDA if they did. ;^)
-Nyle
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Alright, Hyperion.
You generated a lot of buzz with the X1000 announcement. What are your plans to continue the momentum?
Flick the switch on that hype machine and get it going. Answer some of the questions posed by the community. Before the spark goes out.
I know it's been only a few days since the announcement but I worry that new news will be sporadic.
well us OS4.1 owners desperately need our promised UPDATE so that's what should be NEXT in my book !
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They can't.
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They said we'd see it before summer. It must be pretty close to done. Hyperion has been good about not doing vaporware stuff.
-Nyle
Hyperion have a pretty good track record in missing timelines (two more weeks anybody?).
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T-shirts & Coupons
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T-shirts & Coupons
What about em?
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What about em?
ala, Amiga inc.
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ala, Amiga inc.
Exactly, not ala Hyperion ;)
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Another A-Box?
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Man some of you are sooooo cynical. Lighten up, this is good news. We have SAM and MAP looks good so far. If nothing happens for a month , then start moaning and shout about vapourware. Till then please STFU! Your spoiling the happy vibe.
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This place is sounding more & more like moobunny..
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It just amazes me on how ANYBODY can get excited about a product/company that is know to bend over their consumers and charge 40000% mark up.
The "WOW" I am going to be first in line to get *ss ****ed by them just because it is Amiga"
is beyond me.
Sorry all, but the blind sheep mentality around here is nice for only so long. Some time soon you will have to wake up and say "Ouch" that hurts.
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It just amazes me on how ANYBODY can get excited about a product/company that is know to bend over their consumers and charge 40000% mark up.
Oh, Come on. A lot of people love their Apple products..
The "WOW" I am going to be first in line to get *ss ****ed by them just because it is Amiga"
is beyond me.
Oh, sorry, thought you were talking about Apple..
Sorry all, but the blind sheep mentality around here is nice for only so long. Some time soon you will have to wake up and say "Ouch" that hurts.
Er.. Now I'm confused again..
:lol:
desiv
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Oh, Come on. A lot of people love their Apple products..
Oh, sorry, thought you were talking about Apple..
Er.. Now I'm confused again..
:lol:
desiv
Oh, don't get me even close to started on Apple. I refuse to buy into that at any price. My business parter wanted to GIVE me an I-phone for Christmas so we can start developing Apps and such. He was even willing to give me that and go half on an I-book, for development. I refused and would rather stick with my 4 year old Palm Treo then look at a modern Apple product. I leave the Apple stuff to him ONLY. Even if Mr.Jobs himself, called me up and personally sent a private jet, and flew me down to Apple HQ, to present an I Device in person, I would just laugh and hang up on him(probably call him an idiot to his face).
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It just amazes me on how ANYBODY can get excited about a product/company that is know to bend over their consumers and charge 40000% mark up.
The "WOW" I am going to be first in line to get *ss ****ed by them just because it is Amiga"
is beyond me.
Sorry all, but the blind sheep mentality around here is nice for only so long. Some time soon you will have to wake up and say "Ouch" that hurts.
Please show us on the doll where the amiga man touched you
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How to continue the "momentum"?
Releasing product would be nice. Or maybe giving a functional system to some of the online hardware sites to play with?
But really, "momentum" .. a bunch of Amiga-users begging for hardware that is nothing more than a 2007 version of the BeBox.
Give us AmigaOS4.x/x86 for $49.95; that'll create momentum.
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They will release an X500 shortly after the X1000 with lower specs for the rest of us.
But first, what is the X1000?
Answer: The X1000 is made by Varisys and has the following processor:
PA Semi’s new PWRficient™ family of CPUs delivers ground breaking performance and efficiency: performance per Watt is up to 300% better than existing embedded computing solutions. The first PWRficient™ device – the PA6T-1682M – combines a pair of 2GHz 64-bit Power Architecture™ cores with AltiVec™ compatible VMX instructions, 2MB of on-chip L2 cache, dual DDR2-1067 memory controllers, and 24 high speed SerDes serial I/Os capable of supporting PCI Express, SGMII and XAUI.
A PPC board with above spec was delivered in 2007 can be found here:
http://varisys.co.uk/vm31.html
Varisys are partners with XMOS, and even spoke at a recent XMOS conference.
http://www.xmoslinkers.org/conference-online-wf
News from their website March 18th, 2009
After two and half years of working together Varisys and XMOS have complete their 16th development/evaluation board.
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Ok. So building on that we can see that the X1000 processor is a PWRficient PA6T-1682M from P.A. Semi.
I believe a lower cost single core chip will be available in an X500.
Assuming it is pin compatible, a single core PA6T-13xxM could lower the costs, and allow them to reach some sort of economy of scale with the motherboard.
Also assuming it is pin compatable, chips with up to 8 cores(right now) and 16 in future could fill an even higher specced line-up perhaps designated X2000 and beyond.
I would kinda think specifying the amount of cores by having the model number divisible by 500 would make more sense than it did in classic days.
I also assume Varisys are supplying this board for what they see as their key markets:
Video and image processing
Telecommunications
Military and aerospace
Radar and Sonar
Speech recognition
Industrial Control
Vetronics
So, perhaps leveraging these markets could help lower costs.
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Give us AmigaOS4.x/x86 for $49.95; that'll create momentum.
You know, I'd probably buy that!
PZ.
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This place is sounding more & more like moobunny..
I don't think the Moobunny regulars would allow the delusional postings to continue on without challenge at a very early stage.
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You know, I'd probably buy that!
PZ.
I wouldn't.
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I'm afraid, try to send a mail at webmaster@hyperion-entertainment.biz
Object : Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
This is the mail system at host mail.hyperion-entertainment.biz.
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.
The mail system
(expanded from
): temporary failure
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I wouldn't.
I would. :hammer:
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I would. :hammer:
@kolla,
Me x 2!
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Me three! The moment I saw this X1000 thing still clinging to the PPC ISA I wrote it off as more of the same.
Pfft! momementum's already spent.
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I've put on my rose tinted glasses and am hoping the excitement (well, among some) created by the announcement is capitalized on and we do see a next generation Amiga.
Sure, price will be a factor on how many of us choose to buy but hey, I've spent stupid amounts of $ since I decided to get my miggys out of the garage a few years ago so I may well decide to spend some more stupid amounts of my $ on this thing.
To keep the momentum going Hyperion need to keep feeding us info, if they stop talking now then my short attention span will move on to something else...
I'd like to see them incorporate UAE into the os so you can -ala vista- run legacy apps in 68k compatibility mode and I'd like to have the option of booting into UAE.
The thing to remember is that we're not in the 80's no more, normal people
just don't get excited about new computers, its only us old farts trying to relive the glory days that will give a toss about it being called an Amiga so they need to make it something special, kinda like what Apple did with Ipods, everyone had mp3 players already, but Apple made Ipods cool and everyone wanted one even though to get music onto them was a PIA compared to drag n drop on other mp3s... marketing.
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Oh, don't get me even close to started on Apple. I refuse to buy into that at any price. My business parter wanted to GIVE me an I-phone for Christmas so we can start developing Apps and such. He was even willing to give me that and go half on an I-book, for development. I refused and would rather stick with my 4 year old Palm Treo then look at a modern Apple product. I leave the Apple stuff to him ONLY. Even if Mr.Jobs himself, called me up and personally sent a private jet, and flew me down to Apple HQ, to present an I Device in person, I would just laugh and hang up on him(probably call him an idiot to his face).
You know Someone once told me that you should ignore what someone says about you if they can't get your name right.
The irrational hatred of Apple and their products amazes me. I think it's ridiculous.
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@BigBenAussie
Video and image processing
Telecommunications
Military and aerospace
Radar and Sonar
Speech recognition
Industrial Control
Vetronics
If this is the other markets then anyone that hope for a future for Amiga should be bursting with pride. No more hobbyists only, unusable, retarded, to low spec, vapor, idiot, pathetic, not too mac, not too pc, wrong board, wrong memory, wrong cpu, wrong color of board, wrong layout of board, Too not Amiga 500 in cpu speed, delusional dreamer, raving lunatic hardware.
Just new cool Amiga with special features. That's good enough for me at least. :)
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It just amazes me on how ANYBODY can get excited about a product/company that is know to bend over their consumers and charge 40000% mark up.
Quarkx,
I have a proposal to make you rich on the back of the Amiga people !
You design a new Amiga, arrange the production etc. You determine the price. I pay the upfront production cost. Until my costs are recouped I get all the sales cost, afterwards we split the profit.
The only extra requirement I may put is that if my upfront costs are too high I may demand a certain number of prepaid pre-orders. This is open for discussion.
Given your comments, this should be able to make you a rich man !
greets,
Staf.
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The irrational hatred of Apple and their products amazes me. I think it's ridiculous.
I don't get it either. Their products are solid and sell well. It doesn't make any sense for a developer to be a platform purist, that's a quick way to become obsolete and wind up collecting unemployment. In 10 years of software development I'd say 80% of all the APIs and platforms I've learned and developed for I could just ball up and toss in the trash as they aren't even relevant today.
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I don't get it either. Their products are solid and sell well. It doesn't make any sense for a developer to be a platform purist, that's a quick way to become obsolete and wind up collecting unemployment. In 10 years of software development I'd say 80% of all the APIs and platforms I've learned and developed for I could just ball up and toss in the trash as they aren't even relevant today.
Mostly I think it boils down to human nature, "us vs them". You see it in you tube comments with the brain dead "MACS CARNT PLAY GAYMS DDUUURF" comments, you see it on amiga sites where it's "how dare they have actually had competent management! How dare they not fail on a wave of bad marketing, canceled projects and unnecessary products! FREEEEEDOOOOOM". Except with the Amiga lunatics it's worse, a combination of Severe jealousy and bitterness, powder coated with the usual.
For an actual software developer to think that way is like getting to choose between your own weight in gold, or to ignore it and play on train tracks instead. Absolute lunacy.
EDIT: I just spotted he's a palm user as well. Yep, bitterness and jealousy.
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I don't imagine there's any valid reason - other than lack of a developer support - why modern Mac's can't play the gamut of PC games. It's the same hardware nowadays.
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Hopefully they are working on the applications which get included as standard with the OS:
- Optical media writing wizard
- Web Browser with Flash, modern PDF, CCS etc support
- Networking built in so it isn't treated as an add-on app
- Chat client to work with Skype, MSN etc
- Basic video editing akin to Movie Maker or the free Mac one
(these are examples and a far from endless list)
Instead of bashing other platforms, we must look at what they have done which make them so attractive and popular to so many people (even if not to you). For example, people with a digital music player would not buy a new platform unless it supported their device. People with a digital camera (which is a huge percentage of computer users) will not buy it if they cannot connect their camera and manage their images.
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I don't imagine there's any valid reason - other than lack of a developer support - why modern Mac's can't play the gamut of PC games. It's the same hardware nowadays.
especially when you can just boot into xp on the mac and play the latest titles, providing your hardware is up to par. I blame direct x and steam.
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@AndyFC
I believe infrastructure components that you would expect, like networking, should be included in the operating system, and possibly very basic apps provided, but I contend that Hyperion shouldn't go further than that.
And now without further ado.... my obligatory treatise on spurring a viable Amiga software market.
I believe the eventual goal should be a viable and sustainable software market, which entices developers to take part for financial reward(even if only for sustenance), and with competition to drive the quality and features of that software to new heights. There is a danger that if you include software with the OS that is too good from the outset you let the air out of the balloon and potentially undercut developers and curtail software development.
A viable software market is important because it is clear that competition results in software of higher quality. There is a reason for the term "Commercial Quality" and that is what I believe we must strive for.
Ultimately, free applications are a false economy which only hurts the platform in the long run. It is often commented, that like anything, if software is given away for free, it is typically considered of little or no value. Regardless of whether it is true or not, of course, it is the general perception that unfortunately pervades in the general public. The mentality that everything must come for free is also anathema to a sustainable software market. It might sound aggressively capitalistic, but without people willing to pay for software, there will be little impetus to further software development, such is the case at the moment. Of course, piracy is an issue that arguably hurt the classic platform in the long run and we should be vigilant of the return of such a mentality.
I understand that the AmigaOS is on life support, and that to some extent, free software is a necessity right now. However, love of the platform can only get you so far, if it wont put food on the table. As the userbase (hopefully) grows and applications mature a software landscape overrun with free software will hurt progress. I am supportive of bounties and ports that enhance software development for every developer or create integral operating system features for every user, but contend that actual applications and games should be paid for. Bounty amounts are but charity and are not the main motivation for the task. However, free early beta downloads and shareware are most acceptable.
Microsoft is a master of providing just enough in their solutions to allow software developers to flourish. They provide all manner of tools but they are careful to never plug up all the holes in their tech.... and they do that on purpose. I can't tell you how many Microsoft technologies I have come across that provide little more than scaffolding. They know that it is in their best interests to nourish third party software and third party service providers to increase their technology's market share. The feedback loop of vested interests promote that technology further.
Hyperion should take aspects of Microsoft's approach with Windows, as AmigaOS is also commercial proprietary OS, and the most successful one at that. AmigaOS is not Linux, which pretty much throws everything in bar the kitchen stink(not a typo). Linux typically only succeeds when businesses pay for it in a service capacity(such as is the case with RedHat and Novell for instance), and I believe the services sector is most unlikely to be a viable form of revenue for the Amiga. There is no denying that the approach I am advocating has helped Apple's iPhone software market, while in contrast, their Mac software market with, what appears to me, to be the alternative approach of providing so much software up front with the OS, is often criticised for the sparsity of its software market. When you provide iLife with each new Mac I believe you get significantly fewer companies bothering to raise the bar in those areas and I contend that this could be the case with any application software bundled with AmigaOS.
Imagine how much great software the Amiga platform would have if developers could make a living from it. United in cause, all Amiga users and developers have the power to make this a reality.
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Oh, don't get me even close to started on Apple. I refuse to buy into that at any price. My business parter wanted to GIVE me an I-phone for Christmas so we can start developing Apps and such. He was even willing to give me that and go half on an I-book, for development. I refused and would rather stick with my 4 year old Palm Treo then look at a modern Apple product. I leave the Apple stuff to him ONLY. Even if Mr.Jobs himself, called me up and personally sent a private jet, and flew me down to Apple HQ, to present an I Device in person, I would just laugh and hang up on him(probably call him an idiot to his face).
You do know that anti-fanboys are just as bad as or worse than normal fanboys?
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You do know that anti-fanboys are just as bad as or worse than normal fanboys?
Hey! I like that "Anti-Fan Boy". Maybe start a website called the Apple Anti-fanboy regime (local 101) :)! I now added it to my signature!
Also, whats up with the PALM comments? Apple stole the whole Idea of apps from palm, but I was never a Palm fan, I thought the Handspring units were 10X better then Palm, and Palm could never seem to Upgrade their hardware, they just brought the same base unit out for years with a new case around it (same specs) and say it was a totally new Palm. Talk about trying to pull the wool over the consumer's eys. The Pro, the 3, the M130 etc were all the same units- but I am off topic and I will drop it for I am not about to start flame wars.
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@quarkx
"Even if Mr.Jobs himself, called me up and personally sent a private jet, and flew me down to Apple HQ, to present an I Device in person, I would just laugh and hang up on him(probably call him an idiot to his face)."
don't worry ... it won't ever happens
Tell me if it is not fanatism this as well?
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@quarkx
"Even if Mr.Jobs himself, called me up and personally sent a private jet, and flew me down to Apple HQ, to present an I Device in person, I would just laugh and hang up on him(probably call him an idiot to his face)."
don't worry ... it won't ever happens
Tell me if it is not fanatism this as well?
No, I truly am safe from that, whats funny is someone from Apple hits my blog on a regular basis according to the stats. They are "keeping an eye" on me sort of speaking- LOL.
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blacklist them! :-)
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Hell yea. I know if I suddenly out of the blue had a business opportunity with some major mega corp and a meeting with top brass, I'd tell 'em to shove it! Absolutely! It'd be the most logical decision ever.
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Hell yea. I know if I suddenly out of the blue had a business opportunity with some major mega corp and a meeting with top brass, I'd tell 'em to shove it! Absolutely! It'd be the most logical decision ever.
Are you managing Amiga Inc?
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Are you managing Amiga Inc?
I wish I was. I'd release a bottom of the barrel PC with linux with a gnome theme that looked like work bench with UAE for $1,000 and amiga nuts would blow their wads and throw cash at me.
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@Koaftder
Bah. How about sorting out the legal issues and releasing Amithlon boxes running OS3.x instead?
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Hey! I like that "Anti-Fan Boy". Maybe start a website called the Apple Anti-fanboy regime (local 101) :)! I now added it to my signature!
Also, whats up with the PALM comments? Apple stole the whole Idea of apps from palm
You forget how Palm started up, doing grafitti for Apple Newton? :laughing:
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Anti-fanboys are folks who were once Fanboys. But due to events beyond thier control like some traumatic failure or change in directon from their object of fanatacism, they internalize and catastrophize the event.
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Oh, don't get me even close to started on Apple. I refuse to buy into that at any price. My business parter wanted to GIVE me an I-phone for Christmas so we can start developing Apps and such. He was even willing to give me that and go half on an I-book, for development. I refused and would rather stick with my 4 year old Palm Treo then look at a modern Apple product. I leave the Apple stuff to him ONLY. Even if Mr.Jobs himself, called me up and personally sent a private jet, and flew me down to Apple HQ, to present an I Device in person, I would just laugh and hang up on him(probably call him an idiot to his face).
You should convince him to develop for Android instead. I see a lot more potential in a more flexible system.
In fact, I wish Hyperion would focus on the mobile market. I'd love an Aphone. :)
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I wish I was. I'd release a bottom of the barrel PC with linux with a gnome theme that looked like work bench with UAE for $1,000 and amiga nuts would blow their wads and throw cash at me.
Actually we'd all tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine. Remember the Amiga, inc are the brainpower behind such Killer apps as "snowman maker" and "telnet force".
@Karlos: That's not a bad idea actually. I wonder, if they could make a PPC pci card (already exist?) and modify uae to allow direct access to that and a graphics card... All they'd need is a really, really stripped out linux distro and Bingo! New cheap OS4 Hardware!
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Actually we'd all tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine. Remember the Amiga, inc are the brainpower behind such Killer apps as "snowman maker" and "telnet force".
@Karlos: That's not a bad idea actually. I wonder, if they could make a PPC pci card (already exist?) and modify uae to allow direct access to that and a graphics card... All they'd need is a really, really stripped out linux distro and Bingo! New cheap OS4 Hardware!
I get the feeling...Amiga is software for you ? Is that the way it must stay ? Why not a case keyboard mobo and ppc. Why not use the Intel as its good at...games/tool and use you amiga for fun/learning ? A software package on a pc isn't really a computer is it ? Join the party, ditch UAE and see the world from a hardware perspective ?
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I get the feeling...Amiga is software for you ? Is that the way it must stay ? Why not a case keyboard mobo and ppc. Why not use the Intel as its good at...games/tool and use you amiga for fun/learning ? A software package on a pc isn't really a computer is it ? Join the party, ditch UAE and see the world from a hardware perspective ?
Well obviously It'd only be for computers they would sell. But if you think that £££ custom low volume hardware is a better idea you have mental problems.
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I get the feeling...Amiga is software for you ? Is that the way it must stay ? Why not a case keyboard mobo and ppc.
For some of us old folks, PPC will never be an Amiga. Regardless on what the current owners dictate as an Amiga.
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Well obviously It'd only be for computers they would sell. But if you think that £££ custom low volume hardware is a better idea you have mental problems.
I don't think its better...and mental hmmm..nice touch...do you come here often? First word I say and you flame me. Nice.
custom low volume hardware isn't bad, if it has a valid purpose.....what I guess is that you don't consider the Amiga a valid purpose based on that logic.
Do it cheap and it will find a purpose or do it in software and i can play lemmings. UAE is a emulator and its serves a purpose and like VMware that i use every day it does the same, keep old software alive and that is cool but it has no future it cannot create new markets or inspire a child to develop a whole new concept. That requires an evolving platform and at present thats dominated by a elite group of vendors who's sole intention is to market asparasion rather that lead invention and that is what is sadly missing in IT. Its a corporate market for corporate solutions, everyone else hasn't got a look in and it thats the way it will remain until a tool emerges that can lead and not follow.
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For some of us old folks, PPC will never be an Amiga. Regardless on what the current owners dictate as an Amiga.
And PPC no wait Intel will never be macintosh, ARM will never be acorn, and X86-32 no wait X86-64 will never be windows.
Get real. it's a chip inside the machine. I don't care how it works so long as it WORKS.
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I don't think its better...and mental hmmm..nice touch...do you come here often? First word I say and you flame me. Nice.
custom low volume hardware isn't bad, if it has a valid purpose.....what I guess is that you don't consider the Amiga a valid purpose based on that logic.
Do it cheap and it will find a purpose or do it in software and i can play lemmings. UAE is a emulator and its serves a purpose and like VMware that i use every day it does the same, keep old software alive and that is cool but it has no future it cannot create new markets or inspire a child to develop a whole new concept. That requires an evolving platform and at present thats dominated by a elite group of vendors who's sole intention is to market asparasion rather that lead invention and that is what is sadly missing in IT. Its a corporate market for corporate solutions, everyone else hasn't got a look in and it thats the way it will remain until a tool emerges that can lead and not follow.
Actually with the solution I suggested UAE and Linux would merely act as a go between, nothing but a really big driver. the X86 cpu can be an Atom, with a G5 or whatever on Pci. That's essentially the same as running natively on an amigaone, but with far more compatibility and a slightly slower boot time. Oh, and much, much cheaper hardware.
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For some of us old folks, PPC will never be an Amiga. Regardless on what the current owners dictate as an Amiga.
...but UAE hosted on x86 windows is?
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... with a G5 or whatever on Pci ... Oh, and much, much cheaper hardware.
I don't think that this solution will be really *much* cheaper. Only in the imagination of people.
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...but UAE hosted on x86 windows is?
No, it will never be a true Amiga. That's something for the history books as something special to many of us.
Now my uses for an Amiga in today's enviroment would be on UAE, namely games. Which is why I was happy when Neutrino was picked, then Linux kernel was picked. It gives me a real world enviroment that can be a next generation Amiga OS and run the old apps (today, zero Amiga apps for me) and games in emulation. I had hopes for AROS, but alas, I have few of those hopes left for it any more. As far as hardware, unless it's revolutionary hardware from alien technology, give me solid, fast, and cheap hardware. I'm far more interested in Freescales' reference tablet http://armdevices.net/2010/01/09/199-chrome-os-tablet-reference-design-based-on-freescale-i-mx515-processor/ then I am X1000. $199 vs $1999 is a no brainer for me.
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I don't think that this solution will be really *much* cheaper. Only in the imagination of people.
Intel atom board for £67 (http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=31889&tid=frooct#)
PPC G3 500mhz £31.15 (https://secure1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_29&products_id=44&osCsid=722e5efd441872cdf7b3511d8564b6e8)
DDR2 2GB £51.69 (ddr2 is going up in price, it's OLD) (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT25672AA800)
Mini atx case £30 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Tm951-Silver-Black-Supply/dp/B000O38O3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161341&sr=1-1)
500GB SATA £40 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Caviar-500GB-Internal/dp/B002BATGF2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161398&sr=1-1)
dvdrw pata £25 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liteon-IHAP122-19-Internal-DVDRW-Software/dp/B001GT9B68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161453&sr=1-1)
Keyboard and mouse £8 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GK-9PB-Keyboard-and-Mouse/dp/B00102A30O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161569&sr=1-2)
AmigaOS 4.1 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=826) £108.30
Total price: £361.14 Pound Sterling.
A weak ppc (but not by much), I know, but there are faster ones out there and at any rate, they can MAKE a ppc card if they want to for less than an entire motherboard. That's MUCH cheaper than a SAM setup from amigakit, with twice the ram too. I've even totaled in a keyboard and mouse like amigakit do. Hell, a SAM motherboard ALONE costs more than this! Go Go Gadget Hyperion.
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In the end it's all software running on hardware, I don't care what the underlying hardware is, as long as it works and is reasonably priced...
No, it will never be a true Amiga. That's something for the history books as something special to many of us.
Now my uses for an Amiga in today's enviroment would be on UAE, namely games. Which is why I was happy when Neutrino was picked, then Linux kernel was picked. It gives me a real world enviroment that can be a next generation Amiga OS and run the old apps (today, zero Amiga apps for me) and games in emulation. I had hopes for AROS, but alas, I have few of those hopes left for it any more. As far as hardware, unless it's revolutionary hardware from alien technology, give me solid, fast, and cheap hardware. I'm far more interested in Freescales' reference tablet http://armdevices.net/2010/01/09/199-chrome-os-tablet-reference-design-based-on-freescale-i-mx515-processor/ then I am X1000. $199 vs $1999 is a no brainer for me.
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Intel atom board for £67 (http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=31889&tid=frooct#)
PPC G3 500mhz £31.15 (https://secure1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_29&products_id=44&osCsid=722e5efd441872cdf7b3511d8564b6e8)
DDR2 2GB £51.69 (ddr2 is going up in price, it's OLD) (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT25672AA800)
Mini atx case £30 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Tm951-Silver-Black-Supply/dp/B000O38O3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161341&sr=1-1)
500GB SATA £40 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Caviar-500GB-Internal/dp/B002BATGF2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161398&sr=1-1)
dvdrw pata £25 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liteon-IHAP122-19-Internal-DVDRW-Software/dp/B001GT9B68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161453&sr=1-1)
Keyboard and mouse £8 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GK-9PB-Keyboard-and-Mouse/dp/B00102A30O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161569&sr=1-2)
AmigaOS 4.1 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=826) £108.30
Total price: £361.14 Pound Sterling.
A weak ppc (but not by much), I know, but there are faster ones out there and at any rate, they can MAKE a ppc card if they want to for less than an entire motherboard. That's MUCH cheaper than a SAM setup from amigakit, with twice the ram too. I've even totaled in a keyboard and mouse like amigakit do. Hell, a SAM motherboard ALONE costs more than this! Go Go Gadget Hyperion.
Mac Mini G4 1.25GHz, 512 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, DVD/CD-RW Combo (http://www.allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=878681000) £85.22
Keyboard and mouse (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GK-9PB-Keyboard-and-Mouse/dp/B00102A30O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161569&sr=1-2) £8
MorphOS 2.4 (http://www.morphos-team.net/faq.html) £134.67
Total price: £220 Pound Sterling.
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Actually with the solution I suggested UAE and Linux would merely act as a go between, nothing but a really big driver. the X86 cpu can be an Atom, with a G5 or whatever on Pci. That's essentially the same as running natively on an amigaone, but with far more compatibility and a slightly slower boot time. Oh, and much, much cheaper hardware.
Why fit the mould, when you can break it ? Make it not compatible and distinctive,be bold, don't follow...lead ? Someone has to....intel had to...apple had to..why does it have to fit with the children of Fairchild ? Why reinvent Vmware for PPC, which is all you are suggesting..its SheepShaver....and it doesn't have a market. It doesn't keep going a million pound app on modern hardware as nothing that vast was written for 68060 or PPC. Its a dead end being the all so rand in a bear market.
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Mac Mini G4 1.25GHz, 512 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, DVD/CD-RW Combo (http://www.allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=878681000) £85.22
Keyboard and mouse (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GK-9PB-Keyboard-and-Mouse/dp/B00102A30O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161569&sr=1-2) £8
MorphOS 2.4 (http://www.morphos-team.net/faq.html) £134.67
Total price: £220 Pound Sterling.
New Vs Second hand, and the solution I quoted has two processors available. Also the ram and HDD on that sucks nuts out of the box.
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Why fit the mould, when you can break it ? Make it not compatible and distinctive,be bold, don't follow...lead ? Someone has to....intel had to...apple had to..why does it have to fit with the children of Fairchild ? Why reinvent Vmware for PPC, which is all you are suggesting..its SheepShaver....and it doesn't have a market. It doesn't keep going a million pound app on modern hardware as nothing that vast was written for 68060 or PPC. Its a dead end being the all so rand in a bear market.
I can't undertand anything you just said, apart from "sheepshaver", which has more of a market than all three amiga os' put together and does something completely different to what I was suggesting.
I was suggesting something like amilithon with 100% compatibility and a pass through to real gfx and CPU hardware.
Sheepshaver is an emulator.
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New Vs Second hand, and the solution I quoted has two processors available. Also the ram and HDD on that sucks nuts out of the box.
Imaginary Vs Real.
Several people actually obtained those setups and will soon run MorphOS on them.
Obviously RAM and HDD can be upgraded for additional cost if needed.
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Imaginary Vs Real.
Several people actually obtained those setups and will soon run MorphOS on them.
Obviously RAM and HDD can be upgraded for additional cost if needed.
Yeah, my solution is imaginary. but it's not impossible, and it's better than the other options for running amigaos 4.1. The second hand mac with morphos option is fantastic, but NEW hardware is VERY important.
I wonder what the current NATAMI progress is. Somebody gets a PPC card working with at and we'll be in business.
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Ehhh... that scenario is only partially imaginary. I'm typing from the real parts of that setup right now, and I currently run Win 7, Mackintosh, AROS, Linux and even Amiga Forever on Linux. That's all too real. And I'd love to run AmigaOS 4.1 on it too, but it's Hyperion's failure to glean reality that prevents me from that.
Two cents...
Ed.
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Ehhh... that scenario is only partially imaginary. I'm typing from the real parts of that setup right now, and I currently run Win 7, Mackintosh, AROS, Linux and even Amiga Forever on Linux. That's all too real. And I'd love to run AmigaOS 4.1 on it too, but it's Hyperion's failure to glean reality that prevents me from that.
Two cents...
Ed.
Somebody buy this man a beer.
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In the end it's all software running on hardware, I don't care what the underlying hardware is, as long as it works and is reasonably priced...
The Amiga system was an Amiga system, nothing quiet else out there between the hardware and software union. It's a snapshot back in history, there will not be anything like it again, nor should there be.
Today there should be a next generation Amiga OS we could be using. Of the three Amiga-like OS, none of them are next generation. At best there is one maybe 1990s OS, and the rest are 1980s OS trying to live in the modern world and all three are failing at it while the Dev pool shrinks a little bit more.
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Intel atom board for £67 (http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=31889&tid=frooct#)
PPC G3 500mhz £31.15 (https://secure1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_29&products_id=44&osCsid=722e5efd441872cdf7b3511d8564b6e8)
DDR2 2GB £51.69 (ddr2 is going up in price, it's OLD) (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT25672AA800)
Mini atx case £30 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Tm951-Silver-Black-Supply/dp/B000O38O3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161341&sr=1-1)
500GB SATA £40 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Caviar-500GB-Internal/dp/B002BATGF2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161398&sr=1-1)
dvdrw pata £25 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liteon-IHAP122-19-Internal-DVDRW-Software/dp/B001GT9B68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161453&sr=1-1)
Keyboard and mouse £8 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GK-9PB-Keyboard-and-Mouse/dp/B00102A30O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263161569&sr=1-2)
AmigaOS 4.1 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=826) £108.30
Total price: £361.14 Pound Sterling.
A weak ppc (but not by much), I know, but there are faster ones out there and at any rate, they can MAKE a ppc card if they want to for less than an entire motherboard. That's MUCH cheaper than a SAM setup from amigakit, with twice the ram too. I've even totaled in a keyboard and mouse like amigakit do. Hell, a SAM motherboard ALONE costs more than this! Go Go Gadget Hyperion.
The performance will be less than stellar if the PPC only has PCI speed access into the rest of the system, especially to the RAM.
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New Vs Second hand, and the solution I quoted has two processors available. Also the ram and HDD on that sucks nuts out of the box.
500 MHz vs. 1250MHz + Altivec.
But apart from this vs. that I think that the idea of a ppc on a pc expansion card is not a bad one (and not really new). Someting like a Siamese system reloaded could be pretty nice.
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I can't undertand anything you just said.
Language is a gift, press the try harder button !
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Generally speaking to keep momentum you have to have it 1st. All I saw was an interesting marketting gimmick (which I admit did have me intrigued), followed by an announcement of hardware (that isnt available yet and has no released date or price(from public perspective)) that received the usual bashing anywhere outside the amiga world, and even from inside it. Semi interesting hardware to those that are interested in things other than raw speed, but hardly momentum building. Having said this though I do wish all the luck to those with an interest in it, for me however it was interesting for about a day until reality set back in.
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Reality is setting in, a likely to be expensive board, with a main processor that is in short supply and the whole system not likely to make a netbook jealous. There's no momentum here to continue. There's too much of a time gap between the announcement and delivery.
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Language is a gift, press the try harder button !
I speak the language pretty damn well, what you typed was gibberish.
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I speak the language pretty damn well, what you typed was gibberish.
Then, I'll leave the intelligent conversation to others, who are far less superior.
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I wonder what the current NATAMI progress is. Somebody gets a PPC card working with at and we'll be in business.
Why? AmigaOS 4.x doesnt need anything that NATAMI offers, and why would NATAMI waste time on fitting PPC when they just aim for OS3.x?
I think you totally missed what NATAMI is about.
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Why? AmigaOS 4.x doesnt need anything that NATAMI offers, and why would NATAMI waste time on fitting PPC when they just aim for OS3.x?
I think you totally missed what NATAMI is about.
It might be fun to support WarpOS at least. I don't know what sort of connectivity the machine is supposed to have but if it has PCI then I suppose one of those Sonnet cards could be used if an appropriate WarpOS module could be implemented for it.
In truth, however, I think the project is suffering from enough feature creep as it is.
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It might be fun to support WarpOS at least. I don't know what sort of connectivity the machine is supposed to have but if it has PCI then I suppose one of those Sonnet cards could be used if an appropriate WarpOS module could be implemented for it.
:roflmao:
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It might be fun to support WarpOS at least. I don't know what sort of connectivity the machine is supposed to have but if it has PCI then I suppose one of those Sonnet cards could be used if an appropriate WarpOS module could be implemented for it.
In truth, however, I think the project is suffering from enough feature creep as it is.
From what I've seen they are brushing up after a change of SRAM to DDR2 and then focusing on getting the damn thing actually produced, Leaving the 68050 softcore as an update/brick for later. There has also been pleasant sounding noises about doing exactly that with a sonnet card. Though given that the design is REALLY compatible with the 1200 and 4000 (can use either kickstart) it would probably just be a couple of days hacking to get OS 4.0 to run on it once a sonnet card is supported for warpOS or whatever. I'm tired, and I've probably screwed up that explanation somehow.
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Reality is setting in, a likely to be expensive board, with a main processor that is in short supply and the whole system not likely to make a netbook jealous. There's no momentum here to continue. There's too much of a time gap between the announcement and delivery.
I'm also surprised that they announced this board before it was ready to ship, especially considering what it will do to sales of the SAM.
To launch a new hw platform with a intergrated, stable and supported version of OS 4.x will cost a lot of $$$, how much have Hyperion got to spend on this puppy I wonder?
Hopefully some lesson have been learned by the powers-that-be over the AmigaOne launch and marketing disaster.
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There has also been pleasant sounding noises about doing exactly that with a sonnet card. Though given that the design is REALLY compatible with the 1200 and 4000 (can use either kickstart) it would probably just be a couple of days hacking to get OS 4.0 to run on it once a sonnet card is supported for warpOS
You guys are really cracking me up... :laughing:
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You guys are really cracking me up... :laughing:
Well aren't you a little optimist.
I'm also surprised that they announced this board before it was ready to ship, especially considering what it will do to sales of the SAM.
To launch a new hw platform with a intergrated, stable and supported version of OS 4.x will cost a lot of $$$, how much have Hyperion got to spend on this puppy I wonder?
Hopefully some lesson have been learned by the powers-that-be over the AmigaOne lanuch and marketing disaster.
That reminds me - How do Hyperion actually make money? The OS4 market is small as hell. I know they ported games over to amiga in the 90's, but that can't have lasted, surely? For all we know it could be an Amiga Inc situation where the company only has it's doors open for money laundering, but with a much better cover up.
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Well aren't you a little optimist.
No ...he's a developer who actually delivers......
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I'm also surprised that they announced this board before it was ready to ship, especially considering what it will do to sales of the SAM.
To launch a new hw platform with a intergrated, stable and supported version of OS 4.x will cost a lot of $$$, how much have Hyperion got to spend on this puppy I wonder?
Hopefully some lesson have been learned by the powers-that-be over the AmigaOne lanuch and marketing disaster.
Unless this was going to be a trial balloon?
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You mean lead balloon?
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Will it run MacOS 8? or Morphos?
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:roflmao:
What? It's about the only reason to put a PPC in a machine entirely conceived as an m68k one (and as you well know, "fun" means context-switch-tastic applications). I didn't mean to imply it would actually be sensible, let alone feasible ;)
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The can make money the same way Amiga Inc does, launder it....
That's really about the only way.
(http://www.frugalmom.net/forums/images/smilies/laundry.gif)
Well aren't you a little optimist.
That reminds me - How do Hyperion actually make money? The OS4 market is small as hell. I know they ported games over to amiga in the 90's, but that can't have lasted, surely? For all we know it could be an Amiga Inc situation where the company only has it's doors open for money laundering, but with a much better cover up.
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I'm just curious what Piru will do the day Natami shows up for real. Probably spend the rest of the day wasted in a sauna :)
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@BigBenAussie
Your research seems fairly sound, but the only part that doesnt fit is that Hyperion claim that the board was built to thier specification, which the boards youve proposed being an X1000 wasnt. There's also "Hyperion AmigaOne" printed on the motherboard.
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Today there should be a next generation Amiga OS we could be using. Of the three Amiga-like OS, none of them are next generation. At best there is one maybe 1990s OS, and the rest are 1980s OS trying to live in the modern world and all three are failing at it while the Dev pool shrinks a little bit more.
Look what happened to the two leading 80's and 90's OS'. Microsoft droped Windows for NT and rebranded it Windows. Apple dropped System for Mac OS X.
Are we willing to drop Amiga OS? We could keep the userland desktop or got for a work/look alike with a modern kernel underneath. Apple has shown it can be done. Doesn't have to be a borrowed kernel like Apple has done. It could be completely written from the ground up. Sort of a modern version of the Amiga microkernel. Though it would take longer.
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@BigBenAussie
Your research seems fairly sound, but the only part that doesnt fit is that Hyperion claim that the board was built to thier specification, which the boards youve proposed being an X1000 wasnt. There's also "Hyperion AmigaOne" printed on the motherboard.
With the "AmigaOne" printing on the mobo, that would be considered customized mobo.
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@BigBenAussie
Your research seems fairly sound, but the only part that doesnt fit is that Hyperion claim that the board was built to thier specification, which the boards youve proposed being an X1000 wasnt. There's also "Hyperion AmigaOne" printed on the motherboard.
The board I see on the Varisys website, only demonstrates that Varisys has built something with similar specs before, that in fact was on sale as far back as 2007. A board containing the XMOS chip, which I contend must be the basis for the X1000, was referred to in the March 18th 2009 news item. The news item states that "After two and half years of working together Varisys and XMOS have completed their 16th development/evaluation board." This would imply that either, A-Eon/Hyperion contracted them for the design work as as far back as late 2006, or they have pretty much.........um........found a lucky convergence of ideas.
It would be nice if it is the PA6T they are using in the X1000, seeing as they have experience with it, and obviously had supply of them, but given Varisys has experience in all manner of PPC chips, it could just as likely be a lower specced chip from another vendor, which would be a shame. The argument against PA6T is that it's difficult to get nowadays, but we don't know what deal Varisys had with P.A.Semi nor if they hoarded supply. Let's face it, Amiga sales could well be a drop in the ocean in terms of supply.
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Doesn't have to be a borrowed kernel like Apple has done. It could be completely written from the ground up. Sort of a modern version of the Amiga microkernel. Though it would take longer.
People whinge about the hardware not making the Amiga what it is; which leaves pretty much the OS and the "look and feel". I say its simply the look and feel that makes an Amiga an Amiga so why not exploit that.
Make a new Amiga window manager for Linux and sell "Amiga - powered by Linux" (tm) systems instead. Then companies can produce Amiga/PowerPC or Amiga/Intel or Amiga/...
Value add by making the Linux underneath configurable entirely from the Amiga UI. There are some awful tools in Gnome/KDE for configuring the important bits of Linux that could do with a nice bit of Amigafying. Workspaces are nice under Gnome, but it'd be nice to be able to drag screens down sometimes (and not have to use Compiz to do it!)
But concentrate on strengths; the UI is fairly intuitive so make it work with Linux. Don't try and manufacture custom hardware because it'll always be second fiddle to the dedicated hardware companies. Don't try to create an entire OS from scratch because it'll never have the diverse hardware support that the existing players have, nor will you ever get the major application developers porting applications.
Unless of course your business model is selling a couple of hundred units to the hardcore, die hard fans that will buy anything with an Amiga badge on it anyway.
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@EvilGuy
Dude, I practically got my head chopped off by the Friendens for saying something like that in 2004. Welcome to 2010.
I still see where you're coming from. There have been Amiga window managers for Linux, but do you see them being prominantly used? Anubis is said to be sort of an in between, that is somewhat more palatable a solution, which is using the Linux kernal, but building the user experience up to be more closely Amiga-like. This gets you hardware support on par with Linux, but hopefully, without the bloat.
Look, probably the hardest part of AmigaOS4 is done, and it is just a matter of building it up, so there is no point for them going back to the scenario you mention.
Getting to x86 is still easier from where they are now than what you suggest. You have to remember that it would be very hard to drag the userbase over with what you suggest.
As for the future, the era of the OS will probably only run another decade, and then user experiences will be downloadable to a non-descript OS on any hardware over the internet practically instantaneously, and configured to your preferences. You could have an AmigaOS preference, with access to the same computing resources as any other. With the trend moving to internet based user experiences, and data rates increasing exponentially I see this as an inevitability. You may have low access or bandwidth right now, but do you really think it won't improve by the end of the decade.
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Well aren't you a little optimist.
That reminds me - How do Hyperion actually make money? The OS4 market is small as hell. I know they ported games over to amiga in the 90's, but that can't have lasted, surely? For all we know it could be an Amiga Inc situation where the company only has it's doors open for money laundering, but with a much better cover up.
converting pc games to linux and mac, as far as I know
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People whinge about the hardware not making the Amiga what it is; which leaves pretty much the OS and the "look and feel". I say its simply the look and feel that makes an Amiga an Amiga so why not exploit that.
Make a new Amiga window manager for Linux and sell "Amiga - powered by Linux" (tm) systems instead. Then companies can produce Amiga/PowerPC or Amiga/Intel or Amiga/...
Value add by making the Linux underneath configurable entirely from the Amiga UI. There are some awful tools in Gnome/KDE for configuring the important bits of Linux that could do with a nice bit of Amigafying. Workspaces are nice under Gnome, but it'd be nice to be able to drag screens down sometimes (and not have to use Compiz to do it!)
But concentrate on strengths; the UI is fairly intuitive so make it work with Linux. Don't try and manufacture custom hardware because it'll always be second fiddle to the dedicated hardware companies. Don't try to create an entire OS from scratch because it'll never have the diverse hardware support that the existing players have, nor will you ever get the major application developers porting applications.
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So basically AROS with more developers? :)
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@EvilGuy
Dude, I practically got my head chopped off by the Friendens for saying something like that in 2004. Welcome to 2010.
rotfl. Yeah, imagine if they'd pulled their fingers out then and did the sensible thing rather then pushing outdated, expensive hardware. But I shouldn't blame them for their fetish, some people like shoes, others ladies underwear, Hyperion & co like PowerPC.
I played with the AmigaWM on SunOS in '96, it had screen dragging and everything. Very nice. If there were an Amiga company around they could've picked it up and made it something special, rather than just an oddity.
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rotfl. Yeah, imagine if they'd pulled their fingers out then and did the sensible thing rather then pushing outdated, expensive hardware. But I shouldn't blame them for their fetish, some people like shoes, others ladies underwear, Hyperion & co like PowerPC.
I played with the AmigaWM on SunOS in '96, it had screen dragging and everything. Very nice. If there were an Amiga company around they could've picked it up and made it something special, rather than just an oddity.
If they binned the X window system, and developed new APIs, like NeXT (apple) did, i'd give them 200% support. If it was just a window manager then no way.
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So basically AROS with more developers? :)
Yeah, pretty much :-)
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The LAST thing we need is another "Linux" powered OS. What is the last count? 4 to 6 million different "flavours" of linux? Because no body can decide on ONE. Lets face it, if you love linux -fine, but many people despise linux and are physically repulsed by people who insist on bashing it into us every single chance they can get. Its worse than some religious zealots who go door to door.
Why do people insist on being lazy and use some form of linux instead of making a whole new OS? This just leads to more Crappy Linux distributions. If you guys want linux to finally take out Windows, PERFECT ONE, ONE Linux, but to have billions of crappy linux distros, and then try to port a nice Amiga band-aid over to it, is not the answer.
Programmers that use linux have no imagination or skill what so ever, they are just building and trying to get credit for other people' hard work. You want to impress me then make a new OS from the ground up.
Yes, I am an Anti- Apple fanboy, but I can put up with the Apple fanboys. Its the Linux Zealots that make my blood boil. For they can't even decide on one distro, but have to fight over millions, and they don't realize that their fancy distro won't work on anyone elses hardware, but their own. It makes me sick.
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The LAST thing we need is another "Linux" powered OS. What is the last count? 4 to 6 million different "flavours" of linux? Because no body can decide on ONE. Lets face it, if you love linux -fine, but many people despise linux and are physically repulsed by people who insist on bashing it into us every single chance they can get. Its worse than some religious zealots who go door to door.
Why do people insist on being lazy and use some form of linux instead of making a whole new OS? This just leads to more Crappy Linux distributions. If you guys want linux to finally take out Windows, PERFECT ONE, ONE Linux, but to have billions of crappy linux distros, and then try to port a nice Amiga band-aid over to it, is not the answer.
Programmers that use linux have no imagination or skill what so ever, they are just building and trying to get credit for other people' hard work. You want to impress me then make a new OS from the ground up.
Yes, I am an Anti- Apple fanboy, but I can put up with the Apple fanboys. Its the Linux Zealots that make my blood boil. For they can't even decide on one distro, but have to fight over millions, and they don't realize that their fancy distro won't work on anyone elses hardware, but their own. It makes me sick.
Uhh isn't Ubuntu the distro that pretty much runs on anything modern, and the most popular distro? It seems they are doing pretty well.
Oh, and there's arch linux which is pretty much a "roll your own distro" kit disguised as an operating system. to be honest linux is the only OS out there that has as much (actually far more) Customization options as Workbench.
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The LAST thing we need is another "Linux" powered OS. What is the last count? 4 to 6 million different "flavours" of linux? Because no body can decide on ONE. Lets face it, if you love linux -fine, but many people despise linux and are physically repulsed by people who insist on bashing it into us every single chance they can get. Its worse than some religious zealots who go door to door.
Why do people insist on being lazy and use some form of linux instead of making a whole new OS? This just leads to more Crappy Linux distributions. If you guys want linux to finally take out Windows, PERFECT ONE, ONE Linux, but to have billions of crappy linux distros, and then try to port a nice Amiga band-aid over to it, is not the answer.
Programmers that use linux have no imagination or skill what so ever, they are just building and trying to get credit for other people' hard work. You want to impress me then make a new OS from the ground up.
Yes, I am an Anti- Apple fanboy, but I can put up with the Apple fanboys. Its the Linux Zealots that make my blood boil. For they can't even decide on one distro, but have to fight over millions, and they don't realize that their fancy distro won't work on anyone elses hardware, but their own. It makes me sick.
:roflmao:
There is pretty much only one linux. Distributions vary but that's basically which package manager, window manager and default packages are included out of the box. Distros are just various groups ideas of what should be put together for a default installation.
At work, we use fedora, at home I use ubuntu. There are a few differences in how certain things work but nothing too drastic. If you've used one linux distro, you can pretty much use any other. There may be millions, but if you aren't comfortable with that, pick a big, well-supported one.
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The LAST thing we need is another "Linux" powered OS.
That's like saying the last thing we need is another "amiga" powered OS. There is 1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 .. oh so many :-)
And it doesn't have to be Linux. Pick any other OS that someone can license with source,
and put the Amiga UI on top of it. It could be BSD, or Minix, or QNX or Windows CE (:o), or ...
Why do people insist on being lazy and use some form of linux instead of making a whole new OS?
Lazy? Pragmatic. You are NEVER going to get an Amiga system supporting 10% of the hardware that Linux supports, so why not leverage Linux's strong points and fix the weaknesses?
Programmers that use linux have no imagination or skill what so ever, they are just building and trying to get credit for other people' hard work. You want to impress me then make a new OS from the ground up.
Its this sort of sanctimonious BS that is killing the Amiga. Well, killed the Amiga, because the only new hardware is based on a design that is years old, followed by an OS that is ancient (talk about a band-aid solution, there you have it, AmigaOS4) with support for a
processor family that is pretty much dead on the desktop. Yay.
For they can't even decide on one distro, but have to fight over millions, and they don't realize that their fancy distro won't work on anyone elses hardware, but their own. It makes me sick.
Choice is bad. Diverse hardware support is bad. A modern OS is bad. That's what happens when you spend too long drinking the Amiga/Hyperion kool-aid. Maybe your sickness is related to the amount of kool-aid you've consumed over the years.
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That's like saying the last thing we need is another "amiga" powered OS. There is 1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 .. oh so many :-)
And it doesn't have to be Linux. Pick any other OS that someone can license with source,
and put the Amiga UI on top of it. It could be BSD, or Minix, or QNX or Windows CE (:o), or ...
WHY? why do you half to piggy back on the work of others? Are we (the communitity) so incompitent and incapable of creating something from scratch? or God Forbid, Port the Amiga OS over to X86?
Its this sort of sanctimonious BS that is killing the Amiga. Well, killed the Amiga, because the only new hardware is based on a design that is years old, followed by an OS that is ancient (talk about a band-aid solution, there you have it, AmigaOS4) with support for a
processor family that is pretty much dead on the desktop. Yay.
Choice is bad. Diverse hardware support is bad. A modern OS is bad. That's what happens when you spend too long drinking the Amiga/Hyperion kool-aid. Maybe your sickness is related to the amount of kool-aid you've consumed over the years.
Hey, if you read ANY of my other posts, I am not a Hyperion supporter. They are lumped in with the 90% of developers (either hardware or software) that is just bending the Amiga community over and taking full advantage of them.
But I guess it boils down to what YOU think an Amiga is. To me an Amiga is a computer made by Commodore with a Motorola processor and custom chips, coupled with a great OS. I look at it as the same as a 1969 'Hemi 'Cuda. It was the artful combination of hardware and software. NO emulator or linux shell can recreate that combination, just like no kit car can be a '69 Cuda, no mater how close it looks.
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WHY? why do you half to piggy back on the work of others? Are we (the communitity) so incompitent and incapable of creating something from scratch? or God Forbid, Port the Amiga OS over to X86?
Going it alone - in a community that everyday gets smaller - will simply give you what has happened in the last ten years. Overpriced, outdated hardware, little software changes and no applications. Look how long its taken Amiga developers to port a modern web browser.
But I guess it boils down to what YOU think an Amiga is. To me an Amiga is a computer made by Commodore with a Motorola processor and custom chips, coupled with a great OS. I look at it as the same as a 1969 'Hemi 'Cuda. It was the artful combination of hardware and software. NO emulator or linux shell can recreate that combination, just like no kit car can be a '69 Cuda, no mater how close it looks.
Amiga to me is a fast, clean interface which doesn't get in the way of doing what you want to do. The only way to share that with the masses is to go mainstream and support hardware that is available in 90% of the worlds PCs and forget about the PowerPC fetish that the die-hards have.
If people want to spend ANOTHER ten years arguing that and getting NOWHERE then Hyperion seem to be going the right way about it. Otherwise, leverage what others have done in computing in the last twenty years and pull the Amiga into the 21st century.
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Yes, I am an Anti- Apple fanboy, but I can put up with the Apple fanboys. Its the Linux Zealots that make my blood boil. For they can't even decide on one distro, but have to fight over millions, and they don't realize that their fancy distro won't work on anyone elses hardware, but their own. It makes me sick.
Do you even have any idea what you are typing any more?
Linux will run on X86, 68K, powerpc, your playstation 2, embedded devices, ARM processors, mobile phones, a few wrist watches and just about anything else that it can be squeezed unto. In fact, I have a hard time finding something that will run on a wider range of hardware.
As for going it alone.. how is that coming along for the amiga again? What exactly do we have to show for the past 15 years of efforts?
Fuck all. THats what
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Do you even have any idea what you are typing any more?
Linux will run on X86, 68K, powerpc, your playstation 2, embedded devices, ARM processors, mobile phones, a few wrist watches and just about anything else that it can be squeezed unto. In fact, I have a hard time finding something that will run on a wider range of hardware.
As for going it alone.. how is that coming along for the amiga again? What exactly do we have to show for the past 15 years of efforts?
Fuck all. THats what
Have you EVER tried compiling some Linux distros? I have tried dozens on all sorts of hardware, only to have them crash or no compile properly (ever tried "tiny linux" on a P1 200 processor with 64 megs of ram - good luck.) Hours spent waisted on crappy distros that crash on re-boot
Sure, we can argue on linux for the NEXT 10 years, as I have heard it all for the LAST 10 years from the linux Zealots (and it is no more "Mainstream" then it was then, Maybe a few percent more), but what does Linux have to do with Amiga- absolutely nothing, other then a "pretend" Amiga GUI.
It seems like EVERY time we talk about ANY OS, the Linux boys want to CRAM it on us (just look through any thread on this very board for the last 10 years). Every year I try at least a dozen times to use linux and the only ones that I can even get to work are Abuntu and I do try to use Amigaforever, but I give up on it in a few hours.
The story (as I understand them) is we HAD an Amiga OS ported to the x86, but somehow the creator got stiffed out of any royalties by the German distributor- Haage & Partner. So no further development was done on it.
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Have you EVER tried compiling some Linux distros? I have tried dozens on all sorts of hardware, only to have them crash or no compile properly (ever tried "tiny linux" on a P1 200 processor with 64 megs of ram - good luck.)
Who the hell compiles from scratch anymore? Plop in a CD and install it. Or hell, buy it preinstalled from Dell, like the windows guys do.
Ive been running linux for years now, on a few different computers and each time its been running just fine out of the box.
The reason linux keeps coming up is simple: AROS is the only thing amiga has right now that actually is going anywhere.
as an aside, check netcraft.com. This website is running off linux ;)
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Have you EVER tried compiling some Linux distros? I have tried dozens on all sorts of hardware, only to have them crash or no compile properly
Sounds like the problem in those cases is you. Maybe you spelled something wrong. If you know what you're doing, Linux works, period.
(and it is no more "Mainstream" then it was then, Maybe a few percent more)
I wonder how many Android/Google phones have sold. Those run Linux, and they're pretty trendy apparently.
Every year I try at least a dozen times to use linux and the only ones that I can even get to work are Abuntu
Well, if the Linux world produced a distribution that even you can successfully run, imagine how many other people are able to use it and happy with a free, well supported OS!
Bottom line is, there are millions of Linux users around the world, if even a small percentage of them are developing for it, they're going to make progress. How many Amiga users are there, a couple thousand? A small percentage of that is... working on OS4, AROS, and MorphOS!
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I wonder how many Android/Google phones have sold. Those run Linux, and they're pretty trendy apparently. !
http://www.googleandblog.com/android-phones-million-sold-faster-than-iphone/3564/
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Have you EVER tried compiling some Linux distros?
All the time - I use Gentoo which in itself if probably one of the most unfriendly Linux distros available. I've custom built Linux
distributions for various people.
For a newb to try and compile a distro though. Wow, thats pretty impressive.
I have tried dozens on all sorts of hardware, only to have them crash or no compile properly (ever tried "tiny linux" on a P1 200 processor with 64 megs of ram - good luck.) Hours spent waisted on crappy distros that crash on re-boot
If you don't know what you're doing then you're going to have problems - the same applies to Mac, Windows, Amiga, ...
Your problems clearly highlight that a) people want to use Linux, b) some people have problems c) there is an opportunity for a company to make Linux easy.
Now think of it this way - AmigaOS is easy to use. Its fast. It does what you generally expect. Sure, there might be some pain learning how AmigaOS works coming from a Windows-only user but it is fairly intuitive. Now imagine that interface running on stable, fast, MODERN hardware.
Forget that its running on Linux, or BSD, or ... on PowerPC or Intel x86, or x64, or SPARC or ...
Apple did it and they've done it well. Amiga in the last few years seems to have copied everything else Apple has done, so why stop now?
It seems like EVERY time we talk about ANY OS, the Linux boys want to CRAM it on us (just look through any thread on this very board for the last 10 years). Every year I try at least a dozen times to use linux and the only ones that I can even get to work are Abuntu and I do try to use Amigaforever, but I give up on it in a few hours.
After a few hours. /shakeshead.
Either way, a UNIX core could be seen as a stop-gap. To get interest back to the platform. There is nothing stopping the Amiga company from developing a UNIX/Amiga hybrid, get some developers then move to a ???/Amiga. But at the moment we're getting NOTHING. Well, thats not true - we're getting more outdated hardware, costing a hell of a lot of money and an OS that is looking prettier - with pretty only minor functional changes.
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All the time - I use Gentoo which in itself if probably one of the most unfriendly Linux distros available. I've custom built Linux
distributions for various people.
For a newb to try and compile a distro though. Wow, thats pretty impressive.
If you don't know what you're doing then you're going to have problems - the same applies to Mac, Windows, Amiga, ...
Your problems clearly highlight that a) people want to use Linux, b) some people have problems c) there is an opportunity for a company to make Linux easy.
Now think of it this way - AmigaOS is easy to use. Its fast. It does what you generally expect. Sure, there might be some pain learning how AmigaOS works coming from a Windows-only user but it is fairly intuitive. Now imagine that interface running on stable, fast, MODERN hardware.
Forget that its running on Linux, or BSD, or ... on PowerPC or Intel x86, or x64, or SPARC or ...
Apple did it and they've done it well. Amiga in the last few years seems to have copied everything else Apple has done, so why stop now?
After a few hours. /shakeshead.
After Apple stole it from someone else.
I must clarify though, the couple of hours on Amigaforever is TRYING to set up any devices. CD rom drives. hard drives etc. I give up and I go back to my real Amigas. They at least work right from boot up. I am getting far to old to Putz with trying to get hardware to run properly.
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Hey fellas, put it in perspective, this is all a storm in a tiny broken teacup.
Truth is, nothing Amiga related is going to have any impact at all on the modern computing world. Sure, there will be a small number of hobbyists plugging away on their niche platform, good luck to them and enjoy.
Argueing over which OS is "better-er" is puerile.
I'm just happy in 2010 computing tech' is very affordable and there -is- a choice of OSes. I recently got a mac book to compliment my windows and linux systems and am having a ball exploring a "new" and surprising OS. Its a similar feeling to when i got my first C64 or A500, tooling around with a stupid smile on my face.