Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Crom00 on January 07, 2010, 02:45:20 PM
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http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29102
This thing is a linux dreambox with Linux proted to it. It uses a PowerPC chip.
It's just $77
Why is a Sam $500-$700???
Discuss...
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It's a 250mhz CPU with 350 MIPS, it's slower than the XMOS on the AmigaOne X1000
It's mass produced settop box, and what you see for sale there is most likely surplus stock, it didn't cost anything near $77 when it was released, at least not in Norway.
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Pretty obvious answer...because Amigans have no choice!
Find a Chinese firm to do a knock-off SAM & we'll all be happy :D
PZ.
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Because how many tens of thousands of those Dreamboxes were produced? And how many similar products use the same mainboard? Compare that to the number of Sam systems produced... I can't see the link myself (blocked by my work server) but if it's like the Dreamboxes I have at home, it's a 350MHz PPC with 32MB of RAM soldered to the board, practically no expansion possibilities, no storage controller (either IDE or SATA), and a limited flash area for the OS. I hardly think it's comparable to the SAM, even if the Sam is underpowered...
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Ahhh I see so this may have been as high as $300 in price when initially released...
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When it was released it cost from £300 and up in Norway (3000 NOK), current models range from £149 to £999
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That seems to be a counterfeit version of the DM500 (neither Dream Multimedia nor DreamBox signs can be found on the box/unit), so I wouldn't count much on the build quality of the device. If it's based on the DM500, it should have 32MB of RAM onboard, not enough even for OS4, and I guess the memory can't be expanded, too.
Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreambox
Varthall
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Oh, that was it... 250MHz and 350 MIPS :) Not exactly ground breaking. And, as was said there, they were far more expensive when they were originally released, but since the cable encryption in many European countries was changed, most of them are effectively useless to Joe Public. I have a DM600 which had a 2.5" IDE connector, and I still use that as a NAS box at the moment. However, that cost (IIRC) €200, and that was without a hard drive, no USB ports, and extremely poor graphics performance (though fine for RGB TV use)...
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Actually Chinese firms can do it. The Minumum order quantity os 10K units for the kind of price we want. The whole issue is UBOOT and the support of Amiga/ Hyperion. It is possible though.
The real possibility here is a handheld as they're really making lots of these over there. Little hand held retro game players are quite nice. Once manufacturer explained to me why there are sega/Nintendo game players... As best I could understand some manufacturers produced the chips for nintendo and now they get to use the the chip designs in products. What they're not allowed to do though is distrubute commercial games or anything that still have a valid copyright.
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It's just $77. Why is a Sam $500-$700???
because it's just this, a Satellite Receiver...
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Actually Chinese firms can do it.
I know they can...it's just a case of getting one of them to do so.
At the risk of incurring many nasty replies, a Chinese firm SHOULD make a SAM copy & even install illegal UBOOT. Why you ask? Because then there would be competition & we could end up buying legitimate SAMs of higher quality than Chinese, but at a more realistic price.
No way in hell am I forking out what they are asking right now...it's highway robbery for such unspectacular hardware!
PZ.
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Ok guys not trying to rile ayone up just curious. Thanks for the info!
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Well this is the state of the market. I will say that the price for the MiniMig is good. I got quotes of $80 cost to me in quantities of 1000 units. I got quotes from a couple of manufacturers.
In regards to the SAM...They have to make money back. IIt doesnt help when USED Amiga hardware goes for big bucks on ebay. Since Amigans are so willing to pay for underpowered hardware you can't blame Acube for charging what they do for the Sam.
In regards to PPC Amigas....The Chinese are happy with lower margins tho.. lol... I would imagine they'd port linux to it an sell it for use in inudstrial apps or wherever they can sell it in.
They are a force to be reckoned with thoguh...
I agree that competition is a good thing and it's gonna be fun to see how this all plays out. Let everyone understand, the fact we're seeing ANY hardware is a near miracle.
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Let everyone understand, the fact we're seeing ANY hardware is a near miracle.
That's a fair point...or is it?
No matter what anyone says, there is a fairly decent market out there for new Amiga hardware & I honestly think that a 50% reduction in retail price would probably bring a much larger percentage in sales numbers to Acube.
However, without knowing the financial workings of Acube's operations, this may or may not be advantageous.
Either way, I can't afford a SAM & will never be able to, so f*ck it! LOL
PZ.
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At the risk of incurring many nasty replies, a Chinese firm SHOULD make a SAM copy & even install illegal UBOOT.
PZ.
U-Boot is GPL. Anyone can use it.
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Because how many tens of thousands of those Dreamboxes were produced? And how many similar products use the same mainboard? Compare that to the number of Sam systems produced...
I don't get this "argument". What's so special about SAM? Why couldn't it be built on a mass produced mobo? Because we need unique "Amiga HW"? Oh, please...
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No we don't need a unique board. But we do need something that doesn't have the bios in ugly text mode like most awardBios pc boards do, or similar. Why is it only mac which has survived with a minimal footprint of firmware? grr...
But we do need a mass produced board. That's why I root for A-EON and ACube and hope they manage to sell as many boards as possible to any kind of use, not only amiga use.
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That's a fair point...or is it?
No matter what anyone says, there is a fairly decent market out there for new Amiga hardware & I honestly think that a 50% reduction in retail price would probably bring a much larger percentage in sales numbers to Acube.
Please provide numbers and definitions to support this.
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He said that he thinks...
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Please provide numbers and definitions to support this.
Did I not state this to be my own personal opinion? Something *exactly* like this?
"I honestly think"
Remember me saying this?
"However, without knowing the financial workings of Acube's operations, this may or may not be advantageous."
Now, don't be a newsman & underquote me please...LOL
*EDIT* - Thanks koshman...you obviously can read :)
PZ.
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Yes Acube can sell twice as many units with a Lower price. But if they can make the same money selling fewer units at a higher price why bother? They're running a business not a charity.
This is the state of the market. Until someone steps in and takes advantage of this situation to prove that they can make and sell units at a lower price...we're stuck with the current offerings.
Now with Hyperion controllng both Hardware and software we have an apple situation. (one outfit controlling hardware and software) This is better than what we've had until now and I hope this turns out to be a success.
The reality is that aynone outside this forum that still remembers the Amiga and has casually followed its plight comes away with a few thoughts...
A) Amiga users walk a fine line between dedication and insanity
B) The Amiga must be cursed
So when you have a brand whose good points are often overshadowed by the perceptions of it's "looney" users and "horiffic bad fortune" that befalls any owner of the Amiga brand.. Well you kind of throw your arms up in the air and say whateva!!!!
I'm just goona see how this plays out.
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Did I not state this to be my own personal opinion? Something *exactly* like this?
"I honestly think"
He was just asking for numbers to back up your statement.
Perhaps if you had said something like:
In a Fingers Inc. poll, 100% of respondents believed that a 50% price reduction would generate an increase in sales.
(Poll has a margin of error of +- 100%)
desiv
:)
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Yes Acube can sell twice as many units with a Lower price. But if they can make the same money selling fewer units at a higher price why bother?
If that was the case, they would. It would build their brand and grow their market for the next machine.
I don't know if they've marketed the machine hard enough to Linux PPC fans...
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@ Crom00
buy it and install OS4.1 on it and let us know how it works out :-)
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Crom00, speaking of forums...are you here? http://eab.abime.net/
See you there! :D
PZ.
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Havent posted there in eons... or should I say... A-EONS...lol
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Its VERY simple. This device was not produced to be an Amiga. MOST hardware designers that make products for the Amiga want their investment back right away, and because it is Amiga, the greed comes through. If the same product WAS designed with the Amiga name, they would have put it out for $800 or something crazy like that.
Look at the Shark PPC, and the Apple Equivalent, the Apple part $33-$55 (last I saw) you can be darn sure, the Amiga on will cost about $300 .
Its simple 90% of the hardware manufactures are just out to make a quick buck on the Amiga community's back. Trust me, people are gaga over the new X1000 NOW, but a year from now, when people see what a rip off they will charge for it, only a few hundred will sell, and it will fade into memory.
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@quarkx
This pushes my buttons :-)
If the Shark was a Amiga product. Even if it was the same hardware as the Sonnet Cresendo. Do you think it's elves in santas shop who code drivers and software for free?
A coder in Europe can cost as much as €50.000, some are cheaper and some are way more expensive. This guy needs his pay, the hardware engineer who works in any given amiga company also needs his pay. etc etc. And the total cost is then to be recouped through a few hundres or even a few thousand units sold.
I hardly think Jens, Chris or Michael are rubbing their hands and lighting sigars with $100 bills from Amiga hardware sales. The same goes for A-Cube too.
It's simply the scale of things in Amiga land which makes it tough.
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@quarkx
This pushes my buttons :-)
It's simply the scale of things in Amiga land which makes it tough.
This is my point, like I have said before, Hardware for other platforms (like C=64 for example) is pennies on the dollar compared to (NEW) Amiga hardware.
A typical example is NIC's, you can get a new NIC for a C64 for about $65. Now take an Amiga big box Nic and all it is a a $10 PCI NIC, with a Zorro Adaptor, and lets charge oh $135 for it. It has been out for years now, and the price has not dropped 1 red cent.
You can justify it all you want by using excuses such as codding costs, PCB board costs, etc, but the simple facts are that just because it is AMIGA stuff, the prices they charge are stupid crazy. I guess they have bainwashed Amiga users into this for so long, people are buying into it without question.
I see companies are even charging for driver CD'S to registered users of the hardware, and not just a few bucks -but like $35-$40, just to get the drivers. You can't tell me that these companies are NOT taking clear advantage of Amiga Customers. You can jump up and down and make excuses all you want, but if you look at the big picture, you will see the truth.
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Why is it only mac which has survived with a minimal footprint of firmware? grr...
Mac's firmware is butt-ugly. SmartFirmware is not smart but it runs rings around Apple implementation in terms of user friendliness
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But we do need something that doesn't have the bios in ugly text mode like most awardBios pc boards do, or similar.
Have you seen a SAM boot up?
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It's not excuses quarkx, products like Deneb, X-Surf, Sam440 and Indivision all have engineering costs and software costs which have to be covered.
The drivers to use pc pcmia nics with A1200 costs €35. Most of this cost is probably software. Send a mail to AmigaKit or the programmer if you feel that they should have provided the software for free.
I agree that it's strange that some software is still sold at full price, but it's the owner of the softwares privilege to charge what they want. As it's ours not to buy it.
Crumb, when I boot my Mac mini, all I see is a gray screen with an apple. It's there until the OS takes over. Beutifull. When I boot my PC it shows an ASUS logo, spews out loads of text, and then Win7 takes over. Butt ugly.
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Have you seen a SAM boot up?
No, I suspect it's a chatty bios...
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This is a so called "Clone". Among Dreambox users this means an illegal copy of the original product. There are many of these out there now. And the build quality is ok. I did buy two DM500 a while back. Not from that website though, but another clone of the DM500 thats looks exactly like the original. But they was only USD60 each.
If you want to compare prices, look at the original boxes from Dream multimedia. The DM800 and DM8000 are far more expensive. I think the DM8000HD is more than EUR1000, and even that only have a 400Mhz CPU.
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I personally much prefer the informative text boot on my Gentoo box to any apples or other fruit, it speaks to the geek in me :)
Btw, what the BIOS has to do with the way the machine presents (or not) the bootup information??
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No, I suspect it's a chatty bios...
boots up to Workbench in 29 seconds flat!..not much time for chatting :-)
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Ha, my A4000 boots in 18 seconds :D
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Ha, my A4000 boots in 18 seconds :D
My e-uae on linux with OS3.9 on it uses about 4 secs from I press my UAE icon till it's up with backdrop, amidock and all. And that includes a reboot after loading modules (havent bothered creating a dedicated kickstart yet). A reboot afterwards takes around 3 secs. Just so FYI :)
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It'd be cool if MorphOS ran on this thing, it kinda reminds me of an Efika. But MorphOS runs on 1500Mhz hardware now, so 250Mhz seems kinda slow. :|
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The drivers to use pc pcmia nics with A1200 costs €35. Most of this cost is probably software. Send a mail to AmigaKit or the programmer if you feel that they should have provided the software for free.
Wifi drivers are free. You can download them from Aminet. I used them succesfully with my A1200 and A600.
Crumb, when I boot my Mac mini, all I see is a gray screen with an apple. It's there until the OS takes over. Beutifull. When I boot my PC it shows an ASUS logo, spews out loads of text, and then Win7 takes over. Butt ugly.
well, I think you have never used Apple Firmware at all. Press Left_Windows+f+o+Right_Alt when you press the ON button and try to do something with your "beautiful" firmware (like browsing through the hard disk listing directories, partitions and checking which scripts does it load on boot) :-)
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It'd be cool if MorphOS ran on this thing, it kinda reminds me of an Efika. But MorphOS runs on 1500Mhz hardware now, so 250Mhz seems kinda slow. :|
yeah, a friend of mine got a second hand eMac G4/1.25Ghz+USB2+Radeon9200 for 50Euros a pair of days ago and he plans to run MorphOS 2.5 on it. Limited machines running at 250Mhz don't make much sense right now IMHO.
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http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29102
This thing is a linux dreambox with Linux proted to it. It uses a PowerPC chip.
It's just $77
Why is a Sam $500-$700???
Discuss...
Well, it is not a SAM, nor can it really compare to one, but that still does not make your question invalid. There is no excuse for the price of the SAM boards, other than the manufacturer and distributors taking advantage of a few fanatic Amiga religious devotee's that had no other choices at the time.
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yeah, a friend of mine got a second hand eMac G4/1.25Ghz+USB2+Radeon9200 for 50Euros a pair of days ago and he plans to run MorphOS 2.5 on it. Limited machines running at 250Mhz don't make much sense right now IMHO.
He's gonna have a very nice looking doorstop for a few months then.
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Ha, my A4000 boots in 18 seconds :D
Run OS3.9 and a larger HD than 4GB. Welcome to multiple resets my friend! You can now double the startup time. Maybe even triple that ;)
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3.9 boots in about 5 seconds on my A1200, 3.1 even a little quicker. The A2000 is a bit slower (but not much).
Fast booting is a necessary feature though with crash-happy AmigaOS. :P
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That eMac will run Leopard NOT Snow Leopard and could be a very usuable daily computer for websurfing,and games is where it can't keep up with the PC world.
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Things with tubes in them are banned from my house...
That eMac will run Leopard NOT Snow Leopard and could be a very usuable daily computer for websurfing,and games is where it can't keep up with the PC world.
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Things with tubes in them are banned from my house...
How do you buy toilet paper then?
Is it in packages like napkins?
Bidet?
Hmmm :confused:
desiv