Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: dougal on December 26, 2009, 10:35:11 AM
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Here is osmething you dont see every day ...
(Not mine.. I wish)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-65-Prototype-C65-C64-DX_W0QQitemZ330387963783QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntike_B%C3%BCrotechnik?hash=item4ceca83f87
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Here is osmething you dont see every day ...
(Not mine.. I wish)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-65-Prototype-C65-C64-DX_W0QQitemZ330387963783QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntike_B%C3%BCrotechnik?hash=item4ceca83f87
Holy mother of...! I always wanted one of these, but not at all cost.
The C64DX/C65 seem to be emulated and is also well-documented. Have anyone ever attempted to clone it?
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Wow! Can't believe I never heard about the C65 before!
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The speed at which some people put their christmas presents on Ebay amazes me.
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It´s very interessting. But to expensive for me.
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The speed at which some people put their christmas presents on Ebay amazes me.
LOL.
blakespot
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The C64DX/C65 seem to be emulated and is also well-documented. Have anyone ever attempted to clone it?
Emulated? I know it's listed in the MESS emulator as non-working and the ccemu program was an april fools. Is there one I'm missing? (hopefully)
Back to the original topic: If I had the money I would be bidding on it, but I don't :(
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Yeah tried that ccemu program.. hahaha Rickrolled on a C64 :P
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The thing I find interesting, and I'd never heard of the C65 either, is that the copyrights are 1990. So, in the midst of attempting to mainstream the Amiga CBM was dumping resources into the next 8-bit machine? Oh my....
Instead of focusing all their folks on pushing forward, CBM was busy reinventing the past.
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My god people. Knowledge about these systems was pretty common. Where have you been that you never heard of it.
As for the price...... when these systems were sold years ago out of the stock of Commodore after the bankruptcy these sold for a lot less. And it's not like there are less then 10 of them either. This price, eventhough it's rather rare, is just way, way too much. But that it Ebay for you. Real value seems to have gone lost with a lot of persons.
For instance. If I look at the prices of new PC hardware here in The Netherlands I can find about 30 webshops here in The Netherlands that are cheaper then EBay.
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Ummm.... The real value is well represented by the bids on eBay. Have you never heard of the free market? I don't know how you get more real than that.
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The thing I find interesting, and I'd never heard of the C65 either, is that the copyrights are 1990. So, in the midst of attempting to mainstream the Amiga CBM was dumping resources into the next 8-bit machine? Oh my....
Instead of focusing all their folks on pushing forward, CBM was busy reinventing the past.
Hell, apple did the same thing with the 2GS. Atari was slinging out mini 2600's well into the 1990's. Nintendo was selling the NES (not SNES) in the US until 1995.
Fact is, well into the Amiga's life the C64 was still being sold and outselling the former. It was still looked on fondly, and to be quite brutally honest I think a C64-like with a "desktop" OS running at 640x400x256 (which the C65 was capable of) probably would've kept Commodore around longer.
The '65 ran at around half the A1000/2000/500's CPU speed, but had superior graphics, and was just as expandable in the RAM area. I'm quite sure 3rd party addons would have given the '65 the same oomph that the 500 had.
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Holy mother of...! I always wanted one of these, but not at all cost.
The C64DX/C65 seem to be emulated and is also well-documented. Have anyone ever attempted to clone it?
It never reached a fully developed state. The prototypes sold were all at different stages of development; some were in a semi functional state (but alpha level at best), others didn't even start. So if what you are looking for is a fully functional consumer level product, there wouldn't be much to "clone"...
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The C65 was originally conceived about '88 ,89. They put a person on it that nobody wanted to work with, and let him alone on the project. Bil Herd wanted to come back to CBM and actually finish the C65, but he was told "That would not be a good Idea", for he had a reputation of butting heads with management just to get it out the door..
Unfortunately, it was too little, too late. The 8 bit erra was dead by the time it was ready. It would have only sold to the same market that wants it today. The CBM Die-hards. If it would have come out in 1985-'86, it would have had a chance to make a dent it the market, and really paved the way for 16bit computing, but as all things at Commodore,the management was 4 years behind.
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FINALLY! A true 'rare' item on eBay. I have heard about these but never knew it was a concept, what a beautiful machine though although rare it's not worth over £2k to me personally but is looks a very nice computer indeed.
Best of luck and hope he/she makes a bomb from it! :)
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Deluxe Paint was even written for this unit. I saw a screenshot not long ago, though I can't seem to find it online right now. It seems a similar concept to the Apple IIgs (in relation to the Mac, as this is in relation to the Amiga). Its CPU is a ~4MHz 65C02, while the GS had a more powerful 65C816, but the graphics chip in the C65 is likely far more powerful than that of the IIgs.
An interesting unit. I'd enjoy one.
blakespot
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I so wish I had the money...
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The '65 ran at around half the A1000/2000/500's CPU speed, but had superior graphics, and was just as expandable in the RAM area. I'm quite sure 3rd party addons would have given the '65 the same oomph that the 500 had.
Superior graphics to the Amiga? Are you sure about that?
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It never reached a fully developed state. The prototypes sold were all at different stages of development; some were in a semi functional state (but alpha level at best), others didn't even start. So if what you are looking for is a fully functional consumer level product, there wouldn't be much to "clone"...
Yes, I am fully aware of that. But it would be totally awesome to clone the most stable version, and then continue the work on it. After all, it was pretty much an "8-bit Amiga".
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My god people. Knowledge about these systems was pretty common. Where have you been that you never heard of i
For instance. If I look at the prices of new PC hardware here in The Netherlands I can find about 30 webshops here in The Netherlands that are cheaper then EBay.
I think it's where we live, the US. I don't recall hearing much about the 64 after the Amiga was introduced. The World of Commodore shows I attended after '86 were strictly focused on the Amiga.
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We'll see if this baby breaks the record set for one sold on ebay around two years ago... US$9,100...
Absolutely out of this world the prices these can reach on ebay... I wish I had that money, it's truly rare item.
Cheers
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Hell, apple did the same thing with the 2GS. Atari was slinging out mini 2600's well into the 1990's. Nintendo was selling the NES (not SNES) in the US until 1995.
Fact is, well into the Amiga's life the C64 was still being sold and outselling the former. It was still looked on fondly, and to be quite brutally honest I think a C64-like with a "desktop" OS running at 640x400x256 (which the C65 was capable of) probably would've kept Commodore around longer.
It's an interesting question as to whether the C65 would have helped CBM hang-on.
Yes, I'm aware that Apple was pushing the IIGS (the Amiga Killer as I recall) and Nintendo was continuing to sell old products. My point was that CBM didn't have an abundance of resources, certainly not to the level of Apple even back then. Apple could throw off a few million pursuing side-projects and Nintendo and Atari didn't spend any resources in continuing to sell their old products.
I don't think anyone wants to argue that CBM spent their resources wisely, do we?
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Superior graphics to the Amiga? Are you sure about that?
It ran a 3.54MHz 65C02. That's not 1/2 the Amiga's oomf. It did have some 8-bit color modes on the low end, which OCS/ECS did not. I do not believe it was particularly close to the Amiga in overall power.
blakespot
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Youtube video of a C65 proto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16iq88QZQb4
blakespot
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An propper low cost A600/A1200 (at the c64 price) with AGA & 020 would have been better. This C65 project makes sense as a refresh item to the C-64 would have maintained Commodores prime retail space everyplace from KMart to Toys R Us. Once they got out they were never invited back in.
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The real value is well represented by the bids on eBay. Have you never heard of the free market? I don't know how you get more real than that.
TRUE!!! I had so much trouble with people who don't understand that fact - whyever! If one guy places a bid of 3000€ and another one a bid of 5000€, what's the worth of the item in the FREE market then? :)
I think everyone should've learned that in school...
One day I'll buy a C65 for sure....we'll see what it's worth FOR ME then ;)
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If only I had the money to bid on this item...
On a side note, does anyone know how much software was ever written for the C65? Although I would really want to own a functioning unit, I'm guessing that there wouldn't be much usefulness aside from keeping it boxed and watching it appreciate in value.
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Looks like an A1200 trapdoor cover could replace the missing C65 one... if not, I doubt it would take a lot to make it fit
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The Commodore 65 was developed, true, when the 64 was still selling well despite the Amiga being far superior. Problem with the 128 was it was so expensive having to build 3 computers in one. This would have been a single computer with a Commodore 64 emulation mode rather than completely mimicking the hardware.
As for 'superior graphics' it had the ability to display more colors in native screenmodes then Amiga which at Hi-Res only displayed 16 and Lo-Res, 32. Though Amiga did have HAM to display 4096 it was often difficult to work with because of the limitations of how color changes had to occur between adjacent pixels (ideal use was digitizing images using a camera such as with Digi-View) and you saw few games ever using it (Pioneer Plague).
It had been shipped to developers to begin writing software for it and since it even had casework designed and built was probably pretty close to completion. This is why you see Deluxe Paint for it. I got mine from CMD who had a bunch from Commodore for this purpose. I had a Rev 4 motherboard that I sold. Usual one is Rev 2b.
It was discontinued, IIRC, because it would be too close competition for the 500.
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I think we've all thought about alternate history before but here's my take: by '84 commodore/mostec should have had a 12mhz 16bit 6502. the c128 should have had that in '85 with the ocs chipset, and an enhanced geos os. by '90 a 32bit 20mhz 6502 with ecs... etc. etc.
by '85 most of the 8-bit producers wanted to go 16 but mostec had nothing for them so they went to the 68000. the 68000 was a great chip but it was quite a few years old in '85. all us c64, atari 800, and even apple II fans had to "make the switch". the apple IIgs was hardly advertised at all and still managed to outsell the toy mac untill apple ramped up mac ads and bury the gs.
pc people never had to "make the switch" and could get hardware from multiple sources. that's why we have core-blahdeeblah etc today.
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Ultimately Commodore/Apple/Atari lost the PC market to Intel/MS by the mid 80s. Nintendo jumped on and held the gaming console world with easy to use/play game systems... while everyone who worked with computers bought IBM PC compatibles at home to match what they had at work. As a earlier posted noted - if Commodore would have stay focused and went after the nitch video/high end graphics market instead of stuff like c65 they might had a chance... but thats commodore... they bite their nose to spite their face. Apple stayed focused on Desktop publishing... but is the iPOD that saved them and with the web making desktop os less important, they can finally sell PCs... mainly laptops... I am using one to write this now (work buys them cause they last longer)
I think now is the time a new 64-bit Amiga OS on netbooks would have a real chance to bring the Amiga OS/brand back. Even Steve Ballmer at MS is in hot water cause linux is dominating the netbook os market and Intel says netbook processors (Atom) has saved their bottom line for 2 years and growing...
Oh well, my 2 cents worth... happy holidays to all!
PS... here is good article about ms missing a lot lately
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1566790/will-microsoft-rid-ballmer
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Companies don't sell the best product for the consumer;companies sell the best product for the company.
By which I mean that product with the highest profit margin that customers will buy in significant numbers.
Personally,I think $9100 is insane for a C65 but then I don't have any original paintings by famous people either;although I do have reproductions or pictures of their pictures.
Are such pictures as I have "emulated"?
From a technical perspective,I think the Apple IIgs was not fully developed by Apple because more money could be had in the Macintosh sales,like Commodore didn't really do what they might with the 128 AND especially bad was the lack of Ram expanders in quantity for the C64/128 in time to make GEOS and other programs comfortable.Commodore used the ram chips in the Amigas.
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I see that the mobo has an area for an expansion (like the A500, 600 and 1200), did it ever have any compatible hardware upgrades?
Either way, what could it be used for or what could it have been used for?
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Well people, the finish price : six thousand and sixty euros! Congrats to the buyer. Treat her well and, don't forget to get the rom dumped for us all to enjoy :)
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I used to collect game systems and computers, ive got way better thing to do with my time and money. I'd never spend that much on any system though. It'd be cool to find something like that in someones attic or something though.
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I see that the mobo has an area for an expansion (like the A500, 600 and 1200), did it ever have any compatible hardware upgrades?
Either way, what could it be used for or what could it have been used for?
It would be cool to see a homebrew scene for the C65, but it looks like the remaining units may be in the hands of collectors and not real "users." Ah, well.
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6060 EUROS !!! Yes !
But I'm not the winner.
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Too few units for an average user... I really wish this little piece of art had entered the production line... At least for some months... Sigh
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6060 EUROS !!! Yes !
But I'm not the winner.
Yes Amazing!!!!
I saw last night when they lacked 15 hrs and the bidding was in 3010 Euros!
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Even Steve Ballmer at MS is in hot water cause linux is dominating the netbook os market
Not even close. Linux enjoyed a little bit of market time on the first storage-lacking EeePCs but the current models have enough storage to run Windows. Last I checked at the local chain stores, there wasn't a single netbook running Linux available.
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Great Cesar's ghost, look at that bid!
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I think that there were less than 100 of the C-65's. I think it was Paxtron that bought up what was available when Commodore went under. They sold them for I think between $100 and $200 and they went fast. The problem was you didn't know what you were getting as the computers were in different states of completion. There were many different rom versions with newer versions not necessarily being the best. The truth was they were a waste of Commodores time and money. It could have been much better spent on the Amiga. The 8-bit market was dead by the time these were being developed except for in Eastern Europe and China.
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Great Cesar's ghost, look at that bid!
the down payment on my house was less!
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I see that the mobo has an area for an expansion (like the A500, 600 and 1200), did it ever have any compatible hardware upgrades?
Either way, what could it be used for or what could it have been used for?
yes, there was a RAM board that fit in there.
What is 'out there' for C65s is not just what was bought up from when Commodore went under (I think it was Liage who was selling them, Centsible ended up with some when they bought out someone I think also). There are also the ones CBM sent out to developers. The one I got from (IIRC) CMD was a Rev 4 motherboard version. The motherboard I bought from Liage (though I suppose it could have been Protecto) was a Rev 2b from purchase of a Commodore factory which went into the case from the one I bought from CMD when I sold the Rev 4.
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oulala 6060 EUROS
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the down payment on my house was less!
Same here! :lol:
Actually despite the sticker shock, I understand the price. This is the holy grail of Commodore collecting, more coveted than even the Commodore LCD (aka Commodore 8bit laptop).