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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Lando on December 18, 2009, 01:47:23 AM

Title: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Lando on December 18, 2009, 01:47:23 AM
I was just idly looking at some ancient articles about the Amiga DE on OSNews (http://www.osnews.com/comments/459) and came across a post from Mike Bouma (some people here may remember Mike, some perhaps not too fondly..) but what astounded me was his description of what Amiga DE was intended to be, it isn't just 'similar' to the iPhone, it 'is' the iphone (with a couple of exceptions)

Quote
The games you see here will run without modifications on future cellphones with 16-bit 240x320 color displays. Such phones/PDAs will offer functions like:

- email (touchscreen with handwriting recognition, some will use bluetooth and enables you to use your stylus to write on any surface and wirelessly transmits the data to your phone.)
- webbrowser (not just text, it will support high quality graphics and sound as well, Flash)
- MP3/MPEG multimedia players (something like an inbuilt iPOD and fullscreen videos)
- Global positioning Services (Maps with your location, and find nearest restaurant/hotel/hospital/etc functions)
- Games(Both 3D and 2D but adjusted for small screensizes, online gaming i.e. play chess nomatter where your opponent is located i.e. in a train in Tokyo Japan or in the hospital somewhere in Amsterdam)
- Built-in webcam and 384kbs (currently available in Tokyo) allows you to instantly see to who you are talking with.
- Other stadard functions will also be available of course: Schedule, Calculator, Alarm, Call Answering, Voice Memo in Standby or Text Memo.

Built-in iPod, GPS, Web browser with high quality graphics, 3D gaming... Remember this is in 2001, 8 years ago, when mobile phones were lowly little text-based devices with blocky monochrome screens.  Could it be that a certain Mr. Jobs reads OSNews, came across Mike's post and decided to invent the iPhone? What do you think?
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: mongo on December 18, 2009, 01:59:59 AM
Quote from: Lando;534298
Could it be that a certain Mr. Jobs reads OSNews, came across Mike's post and decided to invent the iPhone?


No.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Tension on December 18, 2009, 04:04:52 AM
No.  Apple's phone is locked down.  Apple have complete control.

I believe the Amiga version would've basically been some type of HAL so different manufacturers could use the same piece of software (or "app" i suppose) cross platform, basically.

Apple are really starting to piss me off.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Bamiga2002 on December 18, 2009, 05:55:01 AM
Maybe Amiga Inc. sold their concept to fund the trial against Hyperion? Hmm...
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Piru on December 18, 2009, 06:00:45 AM
Ahahahahaha
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: fishy_fiz on December 18, 2009, 08:03:19 AM
All he's saying is that future (at the time)phones/pdas/etc will have that functionality, it has nothing to do with AmigaDE specifically. AmigaDE had the "write once, run anywhere" idea in mind, and could have potentially run on the devices that have the functionality you mentioned/quoted without being specially adapted. In no way, shape or form has apple been inspired/copied/etc ideas for iPhone from AmigaDE. They're different kettles of fish.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Homer on December 18, 2009, 09:15:51 AM
Did I ever mention that I invented the doughnut  :python:
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: warpdesign on December 18, 2009, 10:14:56 AM
Lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Sorry :)
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: tone007 on December 18, 2009, 12:56:55 PM
Quote from: Lando;534298
Could it be that a certain Mr. Jobs reads OSNews, came across Mike's post and decided to invent the iPhone? What do you think?


The iPhone is nothing new, PDAs could do much of that stuff before 2001, and:

Quote from: Wikipedia
In October, 2001 Handspring unveiled the Palm OS Treo smartphone, utilizing a full keyboard that combined wireless web browsing, email, calendar and contact organizer, with mobile third-party applications that could be downloaded or synced with a computer.


The iPhone is just another generation of "smartphone," and far from being the first to offer integrated GPS and videochat, etc.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: tone007 on December 18, 2009, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: tone007;534352
The iPhone is nothing new, PDAs could do much of that stuff before 2001, and:



The iPhone is just another generation of "smartphone," and far from being the first to offer integrated GPS and videochat, etc.


edit: hey, the iPhone couldn't offer two-way videochat anyway, could it, since the camera is facing the wrong way.  Maybe a little clip-on mirror would help...
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: tokyoracer on December 18, 2009, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Homer;534330
Did I ever mention that I invented the doughnut  :python:

That's an odious lie!

I invented the pie within 2 slices of bread though, I did I tells ya' *looks shifty*.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jj on December 18, 2009, 01:56:39 PM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ho ho ho ha ha heh heh heh ha ha ha ha he he ho, soooooooooo funny
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: persia on December 18, 2009, 02:00:02 PM
It needs a second, front facing camera.  That would add maybe €5 to 10 to the price, but it would chew up bandwidth, Many users only get a GB of usage a month....

Quote from: tone007;534358
edit: hey, the iPhone couldn't offer two-way videochat anyway, could it, since the camera is facing the wrong way.  Maybe a little clip-on mirror would help...
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Orjan on December 18, 2009, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: persia;534363
It needs a second, front facing camera.  That would add maybe €5 to 10 to the price, but it would chew up bandwidth, Many users only get a GB of usage a month....


Does anyone still use the videochat function? I have never seen a real person use it here in Sweden, and all the new phones that are coming out is lacking the videochat camera.

Also, over here most iPhone buyers gets unlimited data usage.. :)
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: kolla on December 18, 2009, 04:25:49 PM
Quote from: Orjan;534371
Does anyone still use the videochat function? I have never seen a real person use it here in Sweden, and all the new phones that are coming out is lacking the videochat camera.


I've used it once. I had just bought the SE P1i and a friend of mine had bought a Nokia thing, we were sitting in a pub, drinking beer and comparing phones, suddenly we realized both supported videocalls. So, we tried it while sitting there, and that was the only time I ever used it.

Quote
Also, over here most iPhone buyers gets unlimited data usage.. :)


Only iPhone buyers? What stupid discrimination is that?
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: kolla on December 18, 2009, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Lando;534298

Built-in iPod, GPS, Web browser with high quality graphics, 3D gaming... Remember this is in 2001, 8 years ago, when mobile phones were lowly little text-based devices with blocky monochrome screens.


You memory is flawed, many phones had colour displays already. In 2002 Sony Ericsson came with P800, which more or less has all the stuff you mention.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Piru on December 18, 2009, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: kolla;534376
Only iPhone buyers? What stupid discrimination is that?
I'm fairly sure they have unlimited data plans similar to finland. For example I can get unlimited 384/384kbps for 9,90 € / month.

I do have 1mbps/1mbps myself though. N900 would be a bit painful with anything slower ;-)
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: TheMud on December 18, 2009, 06:45:40 PM
Nope - He is not wrong... The Sony Ericsson T68 was the first "real" phone with a color screen... Before that there where some things from Siemens, but those was more PDA's... Nokia's 3510 was later released as 3510i with a color screen but after the T68 (2001)

I've been working there since 1998 :-)
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: bloodline on December 18, 2009, 06:59:25 PM
Quote from: tone007;534352
The iPhone is nothing new, PDAs could do much of that stuff before 2001, and:



The iPhone is just another generation of "smartphone," and far from being the first to offer integrated GPS and videochat, etc.
I have to also agree, the iPhone didn't offer anything new hardware wise in 2007, all it did was refine the parts and bring it all together with a very slick user interface... it was really the interface that was the problem with previous generations of Smart phones.

If you think Bouma was being clever... all he was really saying, was that at some undefined point in the future Mobile phones would be comparable to the (then) current generation of desktops... That is basically a no brainer... what he didn't predict was, what actually is innovative, and that is the iPhone's touch interface... he was stuck (as everyone else was) on the idea of a stylus :)
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: Tron2k2 on December 18, 2009, 08:52:21 PM
Credit where it's due here, guys:  Amiga, Incorporated did come out with what amounts to the iPhone's app store-in 2001.

Remember Gary Peake explaining the developer path at Amigan St. Louis in, what was it 2000?  Gary's people skills aside ;-) the overall scheme sounds very familiar:  You get the SDK, write the app, Amiga helps you QA it and when it's ready, Amiga distributes it via their web based store to anyone who wants to buy it, and then they split the proceeds with you.

This went online in 2001, I have fond memories of helping developers with their apps-I played a lot of soliataire ;-)  And there was a really rad little vertical shooter that kept us amused in the office for weeks as it progressed.  Those were the good times in Sno-Town :-)

Now, we all know that Amiga lacked the one locked down piece of hardware that makes the above mentioned QA process a lot easier, among a ton of other technical factors.  But mostly what Amiga lacked was marketing acumen.

So as usual:  Amiga invents it, then five years later Apple steals, err, is inspired by it, and makes a fortune with it..
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: kolla on December 19, 2009, 01:50:26 AM
Quote from: Tron2k2;534401
Credit where it's due here, guys:  Amiga, Incorporated did come out with what amounts to the iPhone's app store-in 2001.


How many "app stores" do you think there have been up throught the years? Really, all this was done _long_ before Apple did it, and it wasnt a new spectacular idea at the time Amiga talked about it either, it had been around for quite some time already by then.

Appearantly the crowd of blind amiga followers and blind apple followers has a certain overlap. :laughing:
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: persia on December 19, 2009, 02:51:43 AM
THe difference is the apple blind followers are always rewarded for their following. the amiga ones are never rewarded...

Quote from: kolla;534429
How many "app stores" do you think there have been up throught the years? Really, all this was done _long_ before Apple did it, and it wasnt a new spectacular idea at the time Amiga talked about it either, it had been around for quite some time already by then.

Appearantly the crowd of blind amiga followers and blind apple followers has a certain overlap. :laughing:
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jj on December 21, 2009, 11:52:58 AM
Quote from: persia;534432
THe difference is the apple blind followers are always rewarded for their following. the amiga ones are never rewarded...

Rewarded by having to get a new iphone every 6 months for new features that mere around the majority of phones at least two years before :lol:
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jutrem on December 21, 2009, 02:56:01 PM
Amiga Inc. predicted the success of an iPhone like device but some in the amiga community could not see it. Some new Amiga hardware or a ported OS alone will not increase our numbers (Amiga Users). How may Apple user have complained about Apple giving all their attention to the iPhone and the iPod and almost ignoring the desktop machines (OS X)? In fact the iPod and iPhone have done more for the Apple brand than the Mac. Even die hard PC users have iPhones not Windows mobile phones. I have a Windows phone and DE still runs great on it, there is a nice big Amiga boing ball logo when it starts up!
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jj on December 21, 2009, 03:13:03 PM
Thats great, doesnt make AmigaDE any less pointless and irrelevant
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jutrem on December 21, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: JJ;534726
Thats great, doesnt make AmigaDE any less pointless and irrelevant

 Have you used Amiga DE? Do you have a device that it would run on? At least most Apple fans have purchased an iPod or iPhone.

 You MISSED the point. Apple (who had the Mac) wasn't afraid to progress and move into a different consumer area. These products (iPod, iPhone) attracted non Mac users that increased their market presence and share price.  DE could have done the same for the Amiga brand.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jj on December 21, 2009, 03:28:52 PM
No it couldn't.  Not whilst Amiga Inc had anything to do with it.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jutrem on December 21, 2009, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: JJ;534728
No it couldn't.  Not whilst Amiga Inc had anything to do with it.


 Did'nt answer the question. Have you used it DE? Do you have any supported hardware (windows mobile phone or others). If you haven't then you can't make a valid comment on it.
The DE player's probably outsold OS 3.9 and 4.  We also already know (from Hyperion) that Amiga Inc had them port OS 4 to some phones/PDa's. This plus something DE like might attract new users.  At least Apple had sense and went for users with deep pockets. Commodore went low end (... for quick $$) now we're stuck with users that just complain.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: kolla on December 22, 2009, 01:11:32 AM
Quote from: jutrem;534731
Did'nt answer the question. Have you used it DE?

I have, got the devkit and all.

Quote
Do you have any supported hardware (windows mobile phone or others).

"others"?

Quote
If you haven't then you can't make a valid comment on it.
But I can, right?

Quote
The DE player's probably outsold OS 3.9 and 4.
What do you base that probability on? Personally I dont know of anyone who bought anything based on AE. Apart from the old developer kit.

Quote
We also already know (from Hyperion) that Amiga Inc had them port OS 4 to some phones/PDa's.
We do? Sounds very unlikely since powerpc based phones/PDAs are very rare, or even non-existing.

Quote
This plus something DE like might attract new users.
New users of what? AE? Something with a boingball?

Quote
At least Apple had sense and went for users with deep pockets.
Or rather, they made products that at least had some quality.

Quote
Commodore went low end (... for quick $$) now we're stuck with users that just complain.
I dont see the relevance, and who's complaining?
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: kickstart on December 22, 2009, 05:23:06 AM
Quote from: TheMud;534388
Nope - He is not wrong... The Sony Ericsson T68 was the first "real" phone with a color screen... Before that there where some things from Siemens, but those was more PDA's... Nokia's 3510 was later released as 3510i with a color screen but after the T68 (2001)

I've been working there since 1998 :-)

3650 and 7650 are older than 3510i i think.

iphone is a underpowered and overpriced hardware with limited functions but hey!... its from apple and its "cool"... ironic.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jj on December 22, 2009, 11:48:35 AM
Quote from: jutrem;534731
Did'nt answer the question. Have you used it DE? Do you have any supported hardware (windows mobile phone or others). If you haven't then you can't make a valid comment on it.
The DE player's probably outsold OS 3.9 and 4. We also already know (from Hyperion) that Amiga Inc had them port OS 4 to some phones/PDa's. This plus something DE like might attract new users. At least Apple had sense and went for users with deep pockets. Commodore went low end (... for quick $$) now we're stuck with users that just complain.

 
I know what has happened here you have read things that Amiga Inc announced, that never transpired, and believed it as truth.
 
Way way way back in time OS4 was supposed to have a DE player.   Did it happen ?
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: tone007 on December 22, 2009, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: jutrem;534725
Amiga Inc. predicted the success of an iPhone like device but some in the amiga community could not see it.


It really doesn't matter what the Amiga community saw or didn't see.  If Amiga Inc's implementation and marketing were worth a damn (obviously the marketing wasn't, and I don't plan to waste my time looking at the software,) it should've opened up new business outside of the Amiga community.  Selling crap with a well-known name on it generally doesn't open up new business, it likely only attracts people familiar with the old name and most likely turns them right off if the product has very little to do with the original use of the name.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: tone007 on December 22, 2009, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: jutrem;534725
Amiga Inc. predicted the success of an iPhone like device but some in the amiga community could not see it.


It really doesn't matter what the Amiga community saw or didn't see.  If Amiga Inc's implementation and marketing were worth a damn (obviously the marketing wasn't, and I don't plan to waste my time looking at the software,) it should've opened up new business outside of the Amiga community.  Selling crap with an old, well-known name on it generally doesn't open up new business, it likely only attracts people familiar with the old name and most likely turns them right off if the product has very little to do with the original use of the name.  Apple seems to have broken this barrier, with a combination of current market viability of the brand and a complete hardware and software solution in the iPhone.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: tone007 on December 22, 2009, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: jutrem;534725
Amiga Inc. predicted the success of an iPhone like device but some in the amiga community could not see it.


It really doesn't matter what the Amiga community saw or didn't see.  If Amiga Inc's implementation and marketing were worth a damn (obviously the marketing wasn't, and I don't plan to waste my time looking at the software,) it should've opened up new business outside of the Amiga community.  Selling crap with an old, well-known name on it generally doesn't open up new business, it likely only attracts people familiar with the old name and most likely turns them right off if the product has very little to do with the original use of the name.
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: persia on December 22, 2009, 03:10:12 PM
Well-known name?  Maybe if it's business were Spanish Lesbians, but it's hardly a well known name in computers....
Title: Re: Apple stole idea for iPhone from Amiga DE?
Post by: jutrem on January 06, 2010, 10:38:38 PM
Back from from the Christmas/New Year break.  

The new X1000 Amiga One hardware been annouced, and the specs look good (just hope it actually comes out). At least Hyperion's going high end.  Off to that thread now.