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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: ferix on December 11, 2009, 12:53:57 PM

Title: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: ferix on December 11, 2009, 12:53:57 PM
Let's make some noise... :P
Has anybody tried this?

(http://www1.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_7533_1.jpg)

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7533

I have one, and It works fine even on an old 386SX in PIO mode (no DMA at all). It works also on a networked hard disk enclosure, so It should work too on any IDE capable Amiga.
Maybe, I'll try It on my A600 ;)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Thomas on December 11, 2009, 01:43:00 PM
I am still looking for an adapter which allows to use two SATA drives on one IDE controller as master and slave. All adapters I've seen yet block the entire IDE port for only one device, although the IDE port can handle two.

Quote
I'll try It on my A600


It does  not fit without an adapter cable. The A600 has a 44-pin connector, this adapter has a 40-pin connector. And it is rather difficult to find a ribbon cable with a male connector.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: ferix on December 11, 2009, 02:39:32 PM
Quote from: Thomas;533404
I am still looking for an adapter which allows to use two SATA drives on one IDE controller as master and slave. All adapters I've seen yet block the entire IDE port for only one device, although the IDE port can handle two.

This one allows It. You can atach two drives to this adapter. And It works (tested).

Quote from: Thomas;533404
It does  not fit without an adapter cable. The A600 has a 44-pin connector, this adapter has a 40-pin connector. And it is rather difficult to find a ribbon cable with a male connector.

I know It, but I have the proper adapter ;)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Thomas on December 11, 2009, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: ferix;533406
This one allows It. You can atach two drives to this adapter. And It works (tested).


I don't think so. See the second answer in questions & answers on this page: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=118507043

This is how it works on any such adapter I've seen.

Bye,
Thomas
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: ferix on December 11, 2009, 03:02:13 PM
Quote from: Thomas;533407
I don't think so. See the second answer in questions & answers on this page: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=118507043

This is how it works on any such adapter I've seen.

Bye,
Thomas

I can assure It works. I'm using It on a pentium 60 (yeah, the original one) with a HD as master and a CD-ROM as slave. (I know, It's a weird configuration :P)
Maybe It's not the same adapter, I didn't buy It on that shop, but It looks exactly the same.

Edit:
Well, seems that there are lots of adapters. This one claims to work as you want (like mine):

(http://www.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_14666_2.jpg)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14666
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: recidivist on December 11, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
This is terrific news,I had no idea such adapters were available .Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 11, 2009, 05:08:07 PM
Any scsi to sata??
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Golem!dk on December 11, 2009, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: Vlabguy1;533421
Any scsi to sata??

There are these (http://www.acard.com/english/fb0101.jsp?type1_title=SCSIDE%20II%20Bridge&type1_idno=11).
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 11, 2009, 05:31:43 PM
Thank you .

Rich
ny
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: miamiga on March 16, 2010, 06:05:25 AM
Hi all

I used converter to use SATA 80GB HD , every thing works fine except i cannot boot , the HD disappear at startup screen , but recognizable after WB started .

any one success with converters booting .
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Tumbleweed on March 16, 2010, 08:36:34 AM
Has anyone got any idea what the transfer rates are for Amiga to SATA?

The way I see things for getting SATA to work on my A4000D there are several options

1. A4000D standard ide plus SATA adapter
2. A4000D FastATA MKV plus SATA adapter (AmigaKit)
3. Cyberstorm MKII SCSI plus ACARD SCSI to SATA
4. Z3 Fastlane SCSI plus ACARD SCSI to SATA
5. Deneb USB plus USB plus SATA adapter

but which is the best route bearing in mind transfer speed, ability to boot from SATA and cost.

Maybe those who have got SATA working could post their solution plus transfer speed.

Weed
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Piru on March 16, 2010, 09:31:05 AM
Quote from: Tumbleweed;547800

1. A4000D standard ide plus SATA adapter
2. A4000D FastATA MKV plus SATA adapter (AmigaKit)
3. Cyberstorm MKII SCSI plus ACARD SCSI to SATA
4. Z3 Fastlane SCSI plus ACARD SCSI to SATA
5. Deneb USB plus USB plus SATA adapter

but which is the best route bearing in mind transfer speed, ability to boot from SATA and cost.

Most likely 3.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: johnklos on March 16, 2010, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: Tumbleweed;547800
Has anyone got any idea what the transfer rates are for Amiga to SATA?

The way I see things for getting SATA to work on my A4000D there are several options

1. A4000D standard ide plus SATA adapter
2. A4000D FastATA MKV plus SATA adapter (AmigaKit)
3. Cyberstorm MKII SCSI plus ACARD SCSI to SATA
4. Z3 Fastlane SCSI plus ACARD SCSI to SATA
5. Deneb USB plus USB plus SATA adapter

but which is the best route bearing in mind transfer speed, ability to boot from SATA and cost.


On my A4000 I am using an ACARD UW-SCSI to IDE, then an IDE to SATA with a two terabyte drive:
http://reva.xtremeunix.com/Images/4.jpg (http://reva.xtremeunix.com/Images/4.jpg)

The IDE to SATA is on the back of the drive sled. The depth of the CD ROM area on an A4000 is a little bit limiting, of course.

On my A1200 I am doing the same thing, but the adapter is narrow SCSI to IDE to SATA. The drive in there is a 500 gig drive. Both drives are 5900 RPM Seagate LP drives, which is particularly nicer for the A4000 since that's running off of the stock power supply.

I am using the SCSI to IDE to SATA because I had been using SCSI to IDE and didn't want to spend the money on a new adapter (which work fine - I use a few SCSI to SATA elsewhere). The best place to put the drives, of course, is on the fastest bus you can. On my A1200 it's on the Blizzard 1260 SCSI and on the A4000 it's on the CyberStorm SCSI.

It's nice to be able to use the LP drives. I have a 500 gig on the A1200 and a 2 TB on the A4000.

Quote from: Tumbleweed;547800
Maybe those who have got SATA working could post their solution plus transfer speed.


Well, both machines are actively compiling so the speeds might be higher if other things weren't going on, but I'm getting around six megabytes/sec read on the A4000 and 4.5 writing, and four megabytes read on the A1200 and 3.5 writing. This is with NetBSD; I'm sure AmigaDOS is a bit more efficient.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Tumbleweed on March 16, 2010, 09:40:19 AM
@johnklos

What CPU card have you got in your A4000D? And how much did you pay for the ACARD UW-SCSI to IDE?

Weed
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: johnklos on March 16, 2010, 09:41:12 AM
I forgot to mention - I'm using an ACARD ARS-2000SU with a 250 gig 2.5" SATA laptop drive in my A3000. It's perfect when you don't have room for adapters since the whole enclosure with the laptop drive fits in the same amount of space as a low profile 3.5" drive, plus the connector is standard 50 pin SCSI.

http://www.acard.com/english/fb01-product.jsp?prod_no=ARS-2000SUP&type1_title=SCSIDE%20II%20Bridge&type1_idno=11&idno_no=249
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: johnklos on March 16, 2010, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: Tumbleweed;547807
@johnklos
What CPU card have you got in your A4000D? And how much did you pay for the ACARD UW-SCSI to IDE?


I have a CyberStorm Mk III:
http://reva.xtremeunix.com/

The ACARD UW-SCSI to IDE can be bought for around $40 to $50 USD. I have many and use them in many different kinds of machines. This particular kind normally is part of a tray onto which the drive mounts making a full height 3.5" drive, but it worked here because there's practically no space between the power supply and the drive enclosure.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Phantom on April 19, 2010, 11:17:15 PM
I've got one SATA to IDE converter the same as in the picture. Although my A4000 can see the HD cannot see the DVD-ROM.

There is a jumper for Master/Slave options, but nothing changes. Any ideas? Who has completely made it working with 2 devices?
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: amigakit on April 19, 2010, 11:22:31 PM
Incidentally, we stock 40-way Male to Male IDE cables (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=749) which a lot of these SATA adapters require:

(http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/male-male-ide-40-way.jpg)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Phantom on April 19, 2010, 11:27:40 PM
I've connected the adapter directly to A4000 IDE port. In this way I can only have HD?

With this cable I will have both HD and DVD-ROM work?

And why is that? Thanks.

Just looking to this adapter, I will need a female to male adapter as A4000 IDE is already male on the motherboard.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Thomas on April 20, 2010, 06:36:11 AM
Quote from: Phantom;554486
I've got one SATA to IDE converter the same as in the picture. Although my A4000 can see the HD cannot see the DVD-ROM.


You need an ATAPI driver to run CD-ROM-like devices on the IDE bus. OS 3.9, IDEfix97 or the like. This has not changed with an SATA adapter.


Quote

There is a jumper for Master/Slave options, but nothing changes. Any ideas? Who has completely made it working with 2 devices?


One jumper on the adapter for two devices ? This rather sounds like you've got an adapter which supports only one device. You need one which supports two devices like mentioned in the beginning of the thread.

Bye,
Thomas
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: mfilos on April 20, 2010, 07:41:12 AM
Phantom got my adapter (I sent it to him for free to check if it was working with his setup) that I got while reading this thread. The adapter is the following:

(http://www.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_14666_2.jpg)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14666

...which has 2xSATA headers and as Ferix said in the first posts... might work.

I haven't tried it to work on my Amigas nor I cared if if didn't, since the expense of El'Cheapo 5euro (including shipping) was too little to test it. I just got it to have it sitting in case I needed, so I sent Phantom to check it out if working.

The fact that HD is working is nice, so I think that the CDROM will after some tries (Slave or CS jumpering check, HD jumper check, Position in the adapter - since it has 2xHeaders specifically numbered etc). If it won't work... then ... no worries! :)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Thomas on April 20, 2010, 09:18:42 AM
The link is completely useless because it does not contain any description about the function of the adapter.

However, it looks pretty much the same as this one: http://www.delock.de/produkte/gruppen/Konverter/Delock_Converter_IDE_40pin_SATA_2x_HDD_61664.html

And here the description definitely says that the adapter represents *one* IDE device which can be either master or slave. It does not support master *and* slave.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Amiga_Nut on April 20, 2010, 12:02:02 PM
But why would you want a SATA adaptor for the internal IDE port on AGA machines?

PATA drives can go upto 120gb on 2.5" and with careful selection of drive you can get a 7200RPM unit with a useful sized cache. Adding a SATA drive will still mean you are limited to the standard (low) transfer speeds on the  Commodore IDE interface used no?

If it's merely to get larger drives in there then fair enough, other than that I can't see an advantage though. That's not to say I'm not missing the whole point entirely though :)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: alexh on April 20, 2010, 05:15:17 PM
While it probably doesn't matter but if anyone wanted to buy them I can get some 2.5" and 3.5" USB 2.0 -> SATA hard drive internal adapters with our OXU931S chips on them.

I have used them with the Deneb Zorro III USB controller, you can boot from them and they out perform the integrated IDE interface by a long way.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: whiteb on April 21, 2010, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: Piru;547805
Most likely 3.




I got one of those :)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: kolla on April 21, 2010, 12:48:15 PM
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;554547
But why would you want a SATA adaptor for the internal IDE port on AGA machines?

I can walk into any store and buy a cheap SATA disk, not so  for PATA disks. Disk speeds are irrelevant when it comes to amiga usage, no point in going above whatever the lowest you find, the bottleneck is elsewhere.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Thomas on April 21, 2010, 01:06:30 PM
Quote from: kolla;554699
I can walk into any store and buy a cheap SATA disk, not so  for PATA disks.



If you go into a store, you'll pay twice the price anyway, so why not ask for an expensive PATA drive instead of an expensive SATA drive ?

When looking at mail order shops, I'd say that SATA HDD + adapter are as expensive as a PATA HDD of the same size.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: whiteb on April 21, 2010, 01:19:10 PM
Quote from: johnklos;547809
I have a CyberStorm Mk III:
http://reva.xtremeunix.com/

The ACARD UW-SCSI to IDE can be bought for around $40 to $50 USD. I have many and use them in many different kinds of machines. This particular kind normally is part of a tray onto which the drive mounts making a full height 3.5" drive, but it worked here because there's practically no space between the power supply and the drive enclosure.


What about CyberSCSI MK II ?, it does not have UltraWide SCSI.  I would love to slap in a PATA drive i have spare (got an 80 and 120GB here), via SCSI-IDE adaptor to my Cyberstorm MK II.

Better than stuffing the drive on to the Integrated PIO IDE on the 4000 Motherboard.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: Amiga_Nut on April 21, 2010, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: kolla;554699
I can walk into any store and buy a cheap SATA disk, not so  for PATA disks. Disk speeds are irrelevant when it comes to amiga usage, no point in going above whatever the lowest you find, the bottleneck is elsewhere.


For transfer speeds true, for seek times the cache and spindle speed are paramount. As most Amiga files are tiny, the percentage of the total load time that seek time accounts for is significant.
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: whiteb on April 23, 2010, 12:36:40 AM
SO does anyone know what kind of SCSI to IDE bridge I can use for my Cyberscsi MK II ? (As it does not use ultra).

I was thinking of an IDE drive, say my 120GIG, but I would als othink of putting a CF card on it, as the Cyberscsi runs DMA, it would SIGNIFICANTLY speed up things. (Sandisk 4GB Ultra CF, rated to 30MB/s)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: mfilos on April 23, 2010, 06:05:51 AM
Sure. You can use an ACard 7720U (http://www.acard.com/english/fb01-product.jsp?idno_no=23&prod_no=AEC-7720U&type1_title=SCSIDE+Bridge&type1_idno=2) or R-IDSC-E/R (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-IDE-40pin-SCSI-50pin-Converter-Adapter-Mac-PC-/230450465086?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a7eb093e) type adapter. I also know about an Yamaha adapter that works but I dunno the model or product number.

Cheers
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: whiteb on April 23, 2010, 06:21:46 AM
Quote from: mfilos;555005
Sure. You can use an ACard 7720U (http://www.acard.com/english/fb01-product.jsp?idno_no=23&prod_no=AEC-7720U&type1_title=SCSIDE+Bridge&type1_idno=2) or R-IDSC-E/R (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-IDE-40pin-SCSI-50pin-Converter-Adapter-Mac-PC-/230450465086?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a7eb093e)
Cheers


Well, I think I will choose the Ebay one, for 1/10th the price :)
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: mfilos on April 23, 2010, 07:33:15 AM
ACard's price is the manufacturer's one. You can find in eBay from time to time. I got mine for 30 euro (incl. shipping).
Title: Re: SATA HD on Amiga computers
Post by: whiteb on April 23, 2010, 09:00:52 AM
Quote from: mfilos;555012
ACard's price is the manufacturer's one. You can find in eBay from time to time. I got mine for 30 euro (incl. shipping).

Yeah the one I got my eye on is $26.

[edit] Why do Vesalia have them for WELL OVER $100 ? ($133 ?)