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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: Magic-Merl on November 09, 2003, 08:42:00 PM
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Question.
How is it that all games (under development!) look so bad. If some of these games were released in the Amiga's hayday (89-93) - we would have laughed at them and yet here we are over a decade later giving praise for games which summount to nothing more than old Public Domain rejects.
Oh am I about to be flamed!!!!!
Don't flame me for my comments. Please please please. Someone prove me wrong. I challenge you all.
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Ok, im gonna be nice, but only just :-P
If there had been a profitable market for Amiga games, which means selling 10000++ copies instead of 1000 copies this really hadnt been an issue, with ppc hardware nowadays, it IS possible to produce games near the quality of ps2 or pc games, but it is a huge task making it possible, you need 6 to 15++ talented programmers, designers, etc etc....
And they dont work on a 1 or 2 year project for free...
Hopefully Gladiateur will be awesome :-D
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You missed my point.
There is a new system coming along which we all believe is going to be the next big thing. Lets face it, thats why we are all here.
Bedroom coders are keeping the Amiga alive as they did throughout it's life. I conceed this point.
So. After investing so much time programming
gameplay and as many addictive qualities as possible, do they look crap?
My final point was - Prove me wrong. I'm still waiting.
BTW: I'm an ex Amiga programmer 680x0 and C. I am well aware of how long it takes to produce a game.
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I didnt miss your point, time will tell if pro quality games will popup more and more when os4 comes out........(thats what u and me are waiting for)
btw if a game looks crap, it still can be more fun to play than a good looking game :-P
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@Magic
You use too many exclamation marks. It's bad for your health and it makes you look bloody stupid.
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So what would you rather play or for that matter - buy. If you were given two games - both were almost identical in all repsects although the graphics on one of those games looked like it belongs on a C64 - I think anyone considering buying would go for the game with the better visuals.
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*yawn*
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I think it's more than a little unfair to judge something still in development as if it were a final product. The graphics might just be quick mock-ups so there's at least something to display.
Here's Reals of Power (http://www.RealmsofPower.de.vu/) which is in development. IMO, the graphics are pretty decent.
There are also titles on the horizon from companies like Hyperion (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/), Epic Interactive (http://www.epic-interactive.com/) and Titan Computer (http://www.titan-computer.com/)
I think everyone needs to concede the point that a small market such as ours is not going to see tons of quality releases that we see on the PC. I think we definately will see some quality releases though.
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Realms of Power.
It does look good.
I am interested in the solo programmer/small teams. These guys will be the backbone of the Amiga initially.
Any more suggestions?
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@Magic-Merl
If you're interested in graphics for games, then this (http://www.amigaflame.com/amicrst.htm) may interest you...
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You use too many exclamation marks. It's bad for your health and it makes you look bloody stupid.
:roflmao:
That is sig-worthy :-)
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- I think anyone considering buying would go for the game with the better visuals.
Dont be daft if it looks good but is crap to play then it is a waste of money gameplay is more important than graphics on any system .
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ok so i guess you never heard of TALES OF TAMAR ?
its an amiga first release (been out for 1+ year now) and its hitting pc and mac + linux etc some time soon.
check out www.tamar.net
looks crap? then you need to wake up.
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www.clickboom.com
www.hyperion-entertainment.com
www.apc-tcp.de (crossfire 2)
www.epic-interactive.com
so i hope you are happy now..
there is alot more even but i cant be botered because of your lame ass post!
either respect what you are given or keep your mouth shut until youve actually done some research.
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@lempkee
Amen! :)
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Magic-Merl wrote:
There is a new system coming along which we all believe is going to be the next big thing. Lets face it, thats why we are all here.
Ummm, i believe everyone is here becaues they enjoy AmigaOS, not because its going to be the "next big thing". The only reason people want it to be is so the platform is more secure. But people use it because they like it, not because its goign to be the next big thing...
If thats the reason you'r using AmigaOS or are sticking around, then it must be very painful for you.
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I hate to say this, but Magic's right to question the poor state of Amiga gaming. The most exciting games to hit the Amiga scene are old PC games, some so old that their source has been released to the public domain (hense the Amiga port).
It would be nice to see more high-end and modern Amiga games, but I'm not holding my breath. There's obviously no market for it, Windows owns the the home PC games market and with good reason.
Personally, I think the Amiga has no chance at competing with the big first person shooters that dominate the PC market. It would be nice to see modern remakes of some of the old classic shoot-em ups. Of course this won't take the Amiga games market anywhere, but it would be nice to see these type of games make a comeback on the platform that really popularized them. You just don't see any good shoot-em ups anymore, especially not on the PC. And oh yes, they all need to have a real industrial feel to them, Psygnosis games come to mind! ;-)
- Mike
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amigamad wrote:
- I think anyone considering buying would go for the game with the better visuals.
Dont be daft if it looks good but is crap to play then it is a waste of money gameplay is more important than graphics on any system .
And why did we all buy Shadow of the beast :-)
The point I think Magic might be hinting at, is that when we were 10 years old, we all went into the computer shop and saw the Amiga with it beautiful graphics and said, Mummy/daddy, I want one of those...
We won't be getting that with the current crop of games that are being ported.
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Any avid gameplayer will know that looks aren't a measure of a games quality. My mum still plays some of my old Amstrad games because she loves the gameplay!
The current Amiga gaming market is only really known to those who are still in the Amiga scene. To even get any people outside of this to take note we need to get the games noticed. Maybe if a game really does have fantastic gameplay then reviews and word of mouth may interest people. But initially, to get people to look, then i do beleive that the game has to look good.
Most gamers today expect good graphics, so would not even consider spending money on something that doesnt fully use the features on their new fancy GeeWhoosh FX Ultra video card.
Computer magazines and the games boxes always seem to pick the most visually stunning bit of the game. Infrequent games buyers, smaller children and parents wouldn't bother to find and read reviews or play demos.
We all know that its a stupid way to judge a game but i'd bet money on the fact thats how a large percentage of the games market buy games.
I'd also bet that a lot of people have bought at least one game purely on looks. Who here bought Rise of the Robots? :P
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Glaucus wrote:
Personally, I think the Amiga has no chance at competing with the big first person shooters that dominate the PC market. It would be nice to see modern remakes of some of the old classic shoot-em ups. Of course this won't take the Amiga games market anywhere, but it would be nice to see these type of games make a comeback on the platform that really popularized them. You just don't see any good shoot-em ups anymore, especially not on the PC. And oh yes, they all need to have a real industrial feel to them, Psygnosis games come to mind! ;-)
Agreed. I haven't seen any new commercial 2D shoot-'em-ups on PCs for absolutely ages - and when they did exist, the scrolling was crap compared to the Amiga version :-) PC games concentrate too much on first person shooters (which I hate), and everything has to be 3D. Why does everything have to be 3D? We are missing all the little fun games like 2D shoot-'em-ups, platform games, overhead racing games. It seems that if it's not 3D, it doesn't get released, simply because it's not 3D, not because the game isn't good. People want 3D... or the programmers want people to have 3D.
I'm not saying 3D is a bad thing, just that there is room for 2D and 3D games to co-exist, and games aren't bad because they are 2D, in fact they can be more fun (I can name more fun 2D Amiga games than 3D PC games). And fun is good, isn't it?
Chris
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EliteII :-(
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kevh100 wrote:
Any avid gameplayer will know that looks aren't a measure of a games quality. My mum still plays some of my old Amstrad games because she loves the gameplay!
It struck me a few days ago, that the artwork on some Amiga games is fantastic and far better than anything I have seen recently. The WormsDC loading screens (including the "on fire" T17 logo), the pinball tables in Slam Tilt are just two examples. Nobody seems to concentrate on static artwork any more, it has to be moving, or rendered on the fly in 3D. Most 2D games look visually more stunning than 3D games, because the artist can take care over the fine details, rather than leaving it to a GPU to render in real time.
Chris
(oh, and I bought ROTR - for a pound!)
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chris wrote:
Glaucus wrote:
Personally, I think the Amiga has no chance at competing with the big first person shooters that dominate the PC market. It would be nice to see modern remakes of some of the old classic shoot-em ups. Of course this won't take the Amiga games market anywhere, but it would be nice to see these type of games make a comeback on the platform that really popularized them. You just don't see any good shoot-em ups anymore, especially not on the PC. And oh yes, they all need to have a real industrial feel to them, Psygnosis games come to mind! ;-)
Agreed. I haven't seen any new commercial 2D shoot-'em-ups on PCs for absolutely ages - and when they did exist, the scrolling was crap compared to the Amiga version :-) PC games concentrate too much on first person shooters (which I hate), and everything has to be 3D. Why does everything have to be 3D? We are missing all the little fun games like 2D shoot-'em-ups, platform games, overhead racing games. It seems that if it's not 3D, it doesn't get released, simply because it's not 3D, not because the game isn't good. People want 3D... or the programmers want people to have 3D.
I'm not saying 3D is a bad thing, just that there is room for 2D and 3D games to co-exist, and games aren't bad because they are 2D, in fact they can be more fun (I can name more fun 2D Amiga games than 3D PC games). And fun is good, isn't it?
Chris
Most, if not all, of my favourite games are 2D ones. They happen to be the ones I grew up with.
But there is no palce in the market for 2D games anymore, just as there is no place in the market for Text adventures.
Times, they move on...
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But there is no palce in the market for 2D games anymore, just as there is no place in the market for Text adventures.
There is a place in the market for them, the problem is that nobody is making them.
Chris
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Most 2D games look visually more stunning than 3D games
I was thinking about that very point 4 days ago... While playing Shadow of the Beast 3. I was thinking these graphics look so good, I love all the little touches, and then It struck me that 3D games are now at the same stage 2D games were in 1983...
That is to say, they will get better... we just have to wait for another 1985 ;-)
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chris wrote:
But there is no palce in the market for 2D games anymore, just as there is no place in the market for Text adventures.
There is a place in the market for them, the problem is that nobody is making them.
Chris
Without saying, "you are wrong", please think carefully about it, seriously do you think that kids would buy a 2D game now?
It's the same thing that has happned before, people wanted 2D games over text adventures, and then the Amiga gave us loads of colours and smooth scrolling and excelent music... no one wanted Manic Miner any more....
Technology, it moves on....
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chris: stop this , and check TALES OF TAMAR , ots weird that people like to comment without even bothering to check a link :)
tamar must be one of the best looking games i have ever seen and guess what...its not a 3d game.
anyway i agree that slamtilt is one of the best looking games ever and one of the best playable games ever, but there is many more that looks and plays great, tzero is one...nightlong is another one, tales of tamar , crossfire 2 (cf2 has a few minor issues in the gfx that drags it down abit).
and only one of thoose games is a pc port....
and most of all tales of tamar is an amiga title that is going pc etc, we all know that feeling eh?, go and check it out!
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restore2003 wrote:
it IS possible to produce games near the quality of ps2 or pc games, but it is a huge task making it possible,
Disagree there. Amiga type hardware and PC type hardware arre so far apart now that you just dont have the kind of power to use the detail possible on modern PC games.
Which ever way you look at it, the Middle of the road X86 processors are a lot faster than the faastest chips available for the Amiga, adn yes I know that you can stick a modern graphics card in one, but its pointless as the processor isn't fast enough. My PC has the same porblem. Radeon 9800 Pro using only a 1 GHz P3. To give you an idea how restrictive it is, I onle got about 7000 3dmarks on 3d mark 2001
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To much talk of tales of tamar and no links to download a demo (for windows).
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Wasn't Worms Armageddon supposed to be ported to Amiga? Whatever happened to it? I wonna kill some worms! Well it ain't that bad, i have Worms DC!
I think that the current Amiga gaming market is bad, almost like the Amiga has been on a life support machine for the past century. But hail to the "bedroom programmers"! Who have given us the likes of Quake, Doom, Heretic 2, Wipeout 2097, etc. At least maybe we have some hope in the future.
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bloodline:
But there is no palce in the market for 2D games anymore
Indeed, but in one of the biggest gaming markets today, 2D is it's primary source. that being the GBA.
OK we put that down to hardware limitation but some 3D games are starting to show on that plaform but its not what it does best, 80% of it games seem to be 2D and most are great fun.
2D i have always loved and i fear when the new handhelds show there faces over the next 2 years, 2D will die as they will have the raw power to make 3D games and 2D wont be such the high priority.
Gfx almost rule over everything in todays PC market, you have a shelf at your local shop with 10 of the latest games, 9 being FPS with the latest support for your 300UKP gfx card and 1 game if your very lucky being a 2D platformer, we can almost guess which will suck in sales because it doesnt look as cool from the pics on the back of the box because its not 3D in some respect.