Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 08, 2003, 10:58:28 PM

Title: Akiko
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 08, 2003, 10:58:28 PM
With all that new stuff for Amiga, like Pegasos and 3d videocards, what actually happened with the chip Akiko (for the chunky->planar) used in the CD32
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Karlos on November 09, 2003, 01:34:07 AM
Nothing as far as I know. Only the CD32 has the chip which can do the c2p at copy speed (ie as fast as the chip ram bandwidth allows). A68040 can do it as fast, if not faster.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: downix on November 09, 2003, 04:00:58 AM
@Karlos

While yse the 68040 can do it (at 25Mhz at about the same speed) You'd be sacrificing a *lot* of CPU power to do it.  Even in an 060, you'd loose 10-15% of your CPU to do this task.

The point of the Amiga chipset was not to be faster than the CPU could be, it was to take the workload off of the CPU so it could be used for more beneficial tasks, like AI and game logic.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Lo on November 09, 2003, 04:34:27 AM
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Jose on November 09, 2003, 10:11:34 AM
Silly question, does anyone know how the chip is integrated in the mobo and if it would be easy to get it on an A1200?!
 :-o
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: the_leander on November 09, 2003, 10:50:45 AM
iirc C= actually built a cd player for the A1200 that was very oddly set up, came as a trapdoor expantion along with a pcmcia cd rom, and the trapdoor card actually had the akiko chip on board, so we know that it can be done at least.

All you need now is a dead cd32 with a still ok akiko chip on it, a very fine soldering iron, a steady hand, and a custom trapdoor expantion to fit it on.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Radfoo on November 09, 2003, 11:13:02 AM
Quote
All you need now is a dead cd32 with a still ok akiko chip on it, a very fine soldering iron, a steady hand, and a custom trapdoor expantion to fit it on.


Or you could get an SX32 PRO expansion for a CD32, only an 030 though.

Talking of an SX32 PRO, anyone want to sell me one? (please) :-)  :-)  :-)
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Jose on November 10, 2003, 11:03:58 AM
You mean THIS (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd1200.html)
and THIS (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd1200_2.jpg)

VERY cool!!
We got to get that chip on the A1200!
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: bloodline on November 10, 2003, 11:12:35 AM
Quote

Jose wrote:
You mean THIS (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd1200.html)
and THIS (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd1200_2.jpg)

VERY cool!!
We got to get that chip on the A1200!


I'm surprised no one ever made an Akiko compatible card for the Clockport... ;-)


-Edit- Actually I'm surprised I never thought of it before  :-o
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: chris on November 10, 2003, 12:22:41 PM
Hmm... you might also need to patch the Kickstart ROM (graphics.library).  WriteChunkyPixels() uses Akiko on the CD32, but not on the A1200.  The question is, does it detect the presence of Akiko and use the appropriate routine, or is it hard coded depending on the version of graphics.library in the ROM?

Chris
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: bloodline on November 10, 2003, 12:30:35 PM
Quote

chris wrote:
Hmm... you might also need to patch the Kickstart ROM (graphics.library).  WriteChunkyPixels() uses Akiko on the CD32, but not on the A1200.  The question is, does it detect the presence of Akiko and use the appropriate routine, or is it hard coded depending on the version of graphics.library in the ROM?

Chris


I assumed that one would program it the "old way" by using it's hardware regs. But that said, I've never seen any technical documents for it, and I don't know how the software Akiko Emulation worked on the Squiriel drives
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Radfoo on November 10, 2003, 12:58:54 PM
Quote
I don't know how the software Akiko Emulation worked on the Squiriel drives


I do not think any emulation was used. Games would have there own workaround or it would fail.

Apparently not many games used Akiko, so it is not a big problem. Shame though, it is supposed to be quite good :-(
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: bloodline on November 10, 2003, 01:06:07 PM
Quote

Radfoo wrote:
Quote
I don't know how the software Akiko Emulation worked on the Squiriel drives


I do not think any emulation was used. Games would have there own workaround or it would fail.

Apparently not many games used Akiko, so it is not a big problem. Shame though, it is supposed to be quite good :-(


The Manufactured claimed there was Emulation.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: StevenJGore on November 10, 2003, 01:13:39 PM
Quote
Apparently not many games used Akiko, so it is not a big problem. Shame though, it is supposed to be quite good


Microcosm is the only game that used the Akiko chip. I've heard people say that Wing Commander (CD32 edition) used the Akiko chip too, but I've never been able to verify it (I've only ever heard it mentioned in recent forums, I never read it in an Amiga magazine at the time).

Don't forget, the Akiko chip isn't just about chunky to planar conversions. It also handles some functions of the twin-speed CD-ROM drive.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Radfoo on November 10, 2003, 01:18:20 PM
Quote

The Manufactured claimed there was Emulation.


I think they only meant general CD32 emu on an A1200, I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Jose on November 10, 2003, 05:33:38 PM
Wing commander is mentioned as the only one that used it in some CD32 FAQ pdf file I found.

Ok we have two then on the list:
- Wing commander
- Microcosm
.....


The cool thing would be for someone to test both these versions on a simlar specced A1200 and see the difference in speed.

By the way does anyone know how much overhead does a good  C2P software conversion cause, say on an 60/50 for example?

Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: x56h34 on November 10, 2003, 05:50:13 PM
Check out this line of the SX32Pro expansion description @ amiga-hardware.com:

"The unit supports DMA transfers at up to 40MB/sec by using the Akiko chip."

Now how cool is that? :-) Akiko turned out very useful as far as the SX32Pro CD32 expansion/accelerator goes.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Jose on November 10, 2003, 05:53:23 PM
Hmm, doubtfull, shouldn't that be 40Mb/s (= 5MB/s) ?
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: x56h34 on November 10, 2003, 06:03:56 PM
Oh, so you think that they were actually referring to 40 Mbits per sec other than Mbytes? Could be...
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: downix on November 10, 2003, 06:15:58 PM
@Jose

Depending on the skill of the coder, between 5% of the CPU to 15%.  (I've seen some bad coders get 30%+)  Also depends on the resolution, how much chunky data there is, etc.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Radfoo on November 10, 2003, 09:45:14 PM
Does Akiko replace the Gayle chip, or are they completly different?
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: downix on November 10, 2003, 09:46:58 PM
Very different jobs.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Radfoo on November 10, 2003, 10:00:21 PM
So there is no Gayle in a CD32?

You see, I was wondering if something like this (http://www.amiga600.de/USB.htm) could be fitted to a CD32. No good without Gayle though :-(
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Stedy on November 11, 2003, 12:06:08 AM
Quote
Does Akiko replace the Gayle chip, or are they completly different?


Akiko replaces Budgie and Gayle.

It provides the interface between the CPU and custom chips and to the Cd drive. It also contains hardware to speed C2P.

All the info I extracted from the CD32 service manual on Akiko is at
Akiko information (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/CD32/CD32Info/CD32_Akiko/cd32_akiko.html)
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: leirbag28 on November 11, 2003, 01:47:04 AM
I have an SX32 Pro and FMV card............I am absolutely Dying to have these both inside the CD32
at the same time! believe me, it's possible.........anybody wiling to do it? you just have to make a circuit board with a passthrough...........I dont kno squat! about circuitry so I dare not do it with my own CD32......already have blown like 3 of them.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: bloodline on November 11, 2003, 10:35:47 AM
Quote

leirbag28 wrote:
I have an SX32 Pro and FMV card............I am absolutely Dying to have these both inside the CD32
at the same time! believe me, it's possible.........anybody wiling to do it? you just have to make a circuit board with a passthrough...........I dont kno squat! about circuitry so I dare not do it with my own CD32......already have blown like 3 of them.


The FMV card ware huge, and used to hang out of the back of the CD32, it was also really quite crap, since it was essentially a standalone unit (it had it's own Decoder chip, it's own graphics chip and it's own video out ports) :-(

A PPC upgrade for the CD32 would be far more useful.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: leirbag28 on November 11, 2003, 11:18:07 AM
Bloodline: The FMV card ware huge, and used to hang out of the back of the CD32, it was also really quite crap, since it was essentially a standalone unit (it had it's own Decoder chip, it's own graphics chip and it's own video out ports)


 What in the world are you talking about?  I have a FMV card and it does NOT hang out of the CD32.....thats only the little loopback peice.....the card itself is completely engulfed by the CD32.....i have already installed it and the SX32 at the same time and it fits..........you just have to remove the sheilding and the metal case off the MPEG card......now I only did this to make sure it fits so that when someone makes an adaptor for it, that I know it already fits.
And the FMV card for the CD32 by the way is the BEST FMV card I have ever seen for any system........and the only one that played CD-I Digital Video Discs (The first version of VideoCD)......Philips made the highest quality VCDs at the time.

This card is great and is someone figured out how to access it from Workbench, might be able to get it to play MP3's.........I have already enabled it to Play VCD's from workbench when using it with the SX-1
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: bloodline on November 11, 2003, 11:23:07 AM
Ok, sorry, I'm in a bad mood today :-)

But the card is still a "blackbox" video/audio decoder, the Amiga has no ability to access it and use it within the Amiga environment.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: Jose on November 13, 2003, 09:32:24 PM
@Downix

U sure? Even at 640x480? Ok forget it, that's far too few to be worth it...
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: mantisspider on November 13, 2003, 10:13:05 PM
customising an A1200 to have the akiko chip would rock if anything actually used the chip.
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: whabang on November 13, 2003, 11:51:19 PM
Didn't Ultimate GLoom support the Akiko?
BTW, that was a fitting typo! :-D
Title: Re: Akiko
Post by: downix on November 13, 2003, 11:58:32 PM
@Jose

That is on a 68040/060.  On the CD-32, you're talking much more CPU load for the same job.