Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: amyren on November 02, 2009, 01:22:30 PM
-
You think the SAM is to expensive?
Here are some facts to consider:
Average salery in US (source http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html)
1986: 17,321; 1987: 18,426; 1988: 19,334; -----> 2006: 38,651; 2007: 40,405; 2008: 41,334
Numbers in US$
The statistics shows that the wages have more than doubled since the Amiga was in the position of selling lots of machines.
Now the prices for Amiga Hardware:
(1985) Amiga 1000: US$ 1,300
(1987) Amiga 2000: US$ 1,500
(1987) Amiga 500: £ 359.90 (about USD $600, todays rate)
(1990) Amiga 3000: US$ 4,100 (monitor incl.)
(1991) CBM CDTV: US$ 1000
(1992) Amiga 600: US$ 500
(1992) Amiga 4000: US$ 3,699
2009: Sam Flex complete Vento Bundle (acube): 675.60 EUR (about US$ 1000, today rate, incl VAT)
So given that the wages have doubled, you can compare the Sam with any of the mentioned old Amiga models, and you find that the Vento bundle is the cheapest of them all.
For the argument sake you could also add the fact that the average age of the target group have probably rised quite a bit. So there are more people in todays target group who actually have a decent job now than there was in 1987. Then many users got the Amiga founded by their own savings and some might get it founded by their parents.
Ok, I know that when the first Amigas was out, it was state of the art technology. But I still think that most users baught it for their own pleasure for the hobbist needs, rather than for buisness. And when we look back at the difficult years behind us, we all know that we cant expect to Amiga to be in front of the technology just over night.
So my point is this, Yes the SAM is expensive compared performance-vice to the PC's. But compared to the old days it is not, it just those damn PC's are sold in millions and because of that is dirt cheap.
I think if someone really wants an Amiga, they can afford to buy it. Its just a matter or priority.
-
you seem to forget Pegasos2 G4/1Ghz which was released for less than 600Euros. It could be overclocked up to 1.25Ghz, runs both OS4.1 and MorphOS and was released more than 5 years ago.
Sam440 is expensive.
-
I think if someone really wants an Amiga, they can afford to buy it. Its just a matter or priority.
So, are you saying that not so many want an Amiga?
-
All of which has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. You have to compare apples to apples. US$1000 will buy you a lot of computer, multiple cores, gigahertz speeds, etc. Sam's specs compared to what you could buy in an AMD or Intel system are a joke. SAMs specs for a thousand US dollars look good in 1999, not 2009.
It's sort of like saying well yeah people should be able to afford a fifty US dollar cup of coffee when Starbucks is selling them for a fiver. Add that to the fact that in Starbucks you can have your choice of flavours and additives whilst in your store you can only have rancid yak butter, and if your coffee cup has a hole in it be grateful there's a cup and we didn't pour it in your hand.
-
@ Persia
Excuse me!!!!
Some of us users here happen to *LIKE* rancid, yak butter in their coffee.......
*snort*
-
It's sort of like saying well yeah people should be able to afford a fifty US dollar cup of coffee when Starbucks is selling them for a fiver. Add that to the fact that in Starbucks you can have your choice of flavours and additives whilst in your store you can only have rancid yak butter, and if your coffee cup has a hole in it be grateful there's a cup and we didn't pour it in your hand.
I disagree, I'd say it's more like: would you rather spend $5 to buy a well-brewed full flavoured coffee you can really savor but it comes in a flimsy plastic cup that's hard to hold without burning you hands, or would you rather spend $0.25 to buy some watered down insta-blend day-old coffee that comes in a nice thermally insullated, ergonomically moulded, spill-proof, thick cardboard cup?
Personally I care more about the taste of the coffee (OS) than the cup (hardware).
-
nice try, but you fail to include the fact that the price of an average home computing system has fallen rock bottom in all those years in your analysis. :hammer:
amiga bundle may be expensive or not, there're just so many alternatives which do much more at a much lower price ... :afro:
-
nice try, but you fail to include the fact that the price of an average home computing system has fallen rock bottom in all those years in your analysis. :hammer:
amiga bundle may be expensive or not, there're just so many alternatives which do much more at a much lower price ... :afro:
Just so! (http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-inspiron-10/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-inspiron-10&s=dhs&cs=19&ref=lthp)
Three of these for the price of a cased Sam Flex; and each comes with an OS. Soooo...one you can have XP on, one you can probably hack OSX onto, and a third for Linux/AROS/Amithlon. All not much bigger than a paperback book.
Or buy a single and multi-boot to all of those; it comes with a 160gb hard drive...
Yeah I know which I'd pick if those were my choices.
-
@ countzero
A basic rule of literacy is that ALL analogies break down when you try to extrapolate them too far. Market trends for coffee could never be used as an analogy for market trends for computers. First of all, there are infinitely more blends of coffee to choose from then there are OS's to choose from. And don't blame me for choosing a bad analogy, persia chose the analogy, I just tried to improve it. Despite your critism, I still think my analogy is better then persia's.
-
@ countzero
A basic rule of literacy is that ALL analogies break down when you try to extrapolate them too far. Market trends for coffee could never be used as an analogy for market trends for computers. First of all, there are infinitely more blends of coffee to choose from then there are OS's to choose from. And don't blame me for choosing a bad analogy, persia chose the analogy, I just tried to improve it. Despite your critism, I still think my analogy is better then persia's.
Fortunately, thanks to the choice of OS's out there, I can get both a good cup and good coffee (to continue your analogy). OSX, Windows of just about any stripe (2000, XP, Vista, 7), AROS, Linuxes galore...
The Amiga Cup holds Amiga Coffee, nothing else (except maybe the occasional shot of Linux Flavoring).
-
Sorry,but thses types of justifications for high prices are bogus.
You cannot ignore all the other factors like price and availabilty of competing systems and new developments.Or higher taxes and fuel costs.
I 've seen the same misuse of logic directed at ham radio operator regarding radio prices.
It is stunningly irrelevant what any item cost twenty years or days ago if there is a new alternative that takes its place and costs less or is more convenient.
-
The point being that you have underpowered over priced hardware compared with the rest of the World and in return you choice of software is extremely limited and the OS lacks basic things like memory protection.
SO in the end you pay much more and get much less in return. On a simple dollar based performance comparison with other computers on the market (MS Windows, Mac OS, Linux,BSD, Haiku, etc) the Sam board quite frankly stinks.
Of course the Amiga market is not the general public, it's a small group of collectors, so the dollar performace ratios don't matter as much, if at all. Indeed, a high price for low performance hardware is an excellent gatekeeper to keep the hoy polloy out. Nobody is going to buy a SAM board based on a rational decision, thereby making the price the perfect way to restrict membership in the club.
It also helps to rationalise why nobody from the general public are buying them. A market priced Amiga not selling would leave only one explanation, there's no hidden millions of people out there waiting for it. That would shatter the hopes and dreams of many Amigans. Better to keep the price up and maintain the myth.
-
It is just insane to try to justify your claims:
An A1000 was $1300 in 1985 and was the best and most modern technology when released, it was a full computer, The SAM, in 2009 is just a motherboard, and the rest, well you all know... :)
If you want to justify you payed too much for SAM, then do it just by saying: it is what i like, and i bought just for the expensive geekness it represents, or something along the lines, but please dont ever try to fool anyone over here by saying SAM is worth its $$$, because no, you cant.
If you want a new Amiga-like enviroment at a reasonable price you could:
-Buy a Pegasos and install AmigaOS4.1
-Buy a Macmini and install MorphOS 2.4
-Buy a PC and install AROS
But never dare to suggest a SAM is reasonable priced!
-
All of which has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. You have to compare apples to apples. US$1000 will buy you a lot of computer, multiple cores, gigahertz speeds, etc. Sam's specs compared to what you could buy in an AMD or Intel system are a joke. SAMs specs for a thousand US dollars look good in 1999, not 2009.
Adding to this, the original poster should factor in that at least some of those Amigas were considered cutting edge (at least in some respects) for their time. I'm wondering how a sam would compare performance/featureset-wise to to an Intel Atom netbook, let alone the mainstream.
-
The price of a Sam is easy:
In computing terms, i. e. MIPS/$€#?, the Sam is insanely expensive. But if you think that AOS4 (and not other Amiga flavour!) is your way and you cannot get hold of a Peg2 or want a brand new piece of hardware, then you have not much of a choice. These ppl probably shoudn't complain, they are free to chose from other alternatives.
But since the general user is not that much iinteresred n AmigaOS 4 it s fair to say, that the Sam is - generally spoken - a piece of rather old fashioned overpriced silicon.
Everyone is free to decide, I decided myself against buying a SAM (there is no benefit), I have enough and faster ppc maschines.
-
Fortunately, thanks to the choice of OS's out there, I can get both a good cup and good coffee (to continue your analogy). OSX, Windows of just about any stripe (2000, XP, Vista, 7), AROS, Linuxes galore...
The important point here is that what constitutes a "good" cup of coffee is totally a matter of opinion. If you don't think Amiga coffee is worth the cost, don't buy it; simple as that.
I think it's pretty obvious by now that nobody's going to buy an Amiga/Sam because it's "pratical" but because they enjoy it. The question is, how much is that enjoyment worth to you? Everyone's going to have a different answer and no amount of arguing or "discussion" is going to change a person's opinion in that regard nor is it going to change the current situation.
-
It just boils down to: what do you need? what do you want?
If you definitely need or want something that runs AmigaOS 4, then you have little choice. Yes, it's pricey but most of us can probably afford it. Surely less pricey and more potent than souping up your beloved 1200.
However, in the perspective of competition the already mentioned problems come up and it doesn't make too much sense to choose a SAM from a rational POV. Sorry. If you think it's your hobby and it's worth it: fine! I'm glad for you that you can get what you want, honestly.
Obviously there's only a few people out there making that choice, so hardware prices are not bound to drop unfortunately. IMHO it'd make a lot of sense to port AmigaOS to an affordable, available hardware platform ASAP. Be it a PPC Mac (which doesn't hold much of a future but is available used in numbers) or a bog standard, el-cheapo x86 board (see Amithlon, AROS).
-
And this is a different time. The first time Amiga came out it was cutting edge hardware pushed beyond all sane limits. That was then, today it's rather ordinary trailing edge technology that is handled gently by the OS to get speed. It has some concessions to modernity but it basically retro in flavour.
On the cutting edge the Amiga survived for a few years and then the Apple and Microsoft engineers came out and ended that. There is no way to stay at the cutting edge without massive commitment of money and time. On the retro end however this is not critical, you don't have to outpace or even keep pace with the market, in fact the market is irrelevant!
The closest thing I can think of is steam punk, you've got the past re-imagined into the present. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if it's enough to pay the bills then it's ok.
-
I love amiga, and hated switching to windows when the cpu speeds got so far ahead of amiga but I do video editing and make music, so I really needed to switch.
Now I've come back to amiga for fun,running a dedicated amiga emulation pc running amikit. Its cheap, runs on an older pc 1.5ghz amd.
I have looked at amiga os4 and drooled a bit but I'm not spending so much money for a processor with speed from 5 or 8 years ago. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way.
They will KILL amiga os if they don't port to x86 or something that has speeds at least approaching modern pc's. I don't see the reluctance to port to x86, except for piracy. While all copy protection can be beaten, Morph-os has done a good job of negating piracy of their os, amiga os can do the same...
For all these reasons, AROS is my choice for a nextgen amiga os. Its fast, free, and runs on most common hardware. My 3ghz aros pc can run rings around ANY morph or amiga os machine, and it costs a tenth of the price of their a morph os or amiga os machine.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a morph or amiga os machine, I just refuse to pay so much for such slow aging hardware.
Steven
-
Agreed, port it to x86 and I'll buy it in a heartbeat. I already have a Core i7 rig'I'm not about to ditch for buying a sam, no matter how cute.
For OS4.1 I will not make the investment in hardware that runs OS4.1 only, or maybe some Linux stuff albeit a lot more slowly then the hardware I have now.
Port it to x86, I'll install it dual boot (maybe triple) and I'll actually use it, instead a little (expensive) machine sitting in a corner never being used.
-
@ amyren
Oh no, not this argument again. Look, trying to make any kind of conclusions regarding the value of todays products based on ancient computer history is completely, totally, utterly *useless*!
Despite its price, the Sam offers a performance level comparable to common PDA's, and you can easily get *two* complete Mac Mini + MorphOS (registered!) systems for the price of one Sam+OS4 system. And each one of the Minis will be so much more useful!
-
I think your logic is flawed... There are a number of factors that can contribute the cost of technology hardware... "Bleeding edge", niche market, and popularity.
I once purchased a 9600 baud modem for $299. Bleeding edge at the time, and I paid dearly for it. Some people would have argued at the time it was a silly purchase and 2400 baud is fine.
Current (kinda sorta?!) Amiga hardware you are paying for niche low volume hardware. So your $/performance is going to be perplexing to most. (unless you are a die-hard amiga person, then it's acceptable)
Most people do not follow any of those trends, except perhaps popularity. They just want something cheap with impressive numbers. (and they may not even know what the numbers mean - ghz, megabytes, etc.)
So yeah anyone theoretically could afford one, but what if they don't want it?
-
Yes, an Amiga 500 was $600 in 1987 but it was cutting edge technology for the time.
Compare the price of a Sam -vs- what $600 will get you in an x86 PC today?
You think the SAM is to expensive?
Here are some facts to consider:
Average salery in US (source http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html)
1986: 17,321; 1987: 18,426; 1988: 19,334; -----> 2006: 38,651; 2007: 40,405; 2008: 41,334
Numbers in US$
The statistics shows that the wages have more than doubled since the Amiga was in the position of selling lots of machines.
Now the prices for Amiga Hardware:
(1985) Amiga 1000: US$ 1,300
(1987) Amiga 2000: US$ 1,500
(1987) Amiga 500: £ 359.90 (about USD $600, todays rate)
(1990) Amiga 3000: US$ 4,100 (monitor incl.)
(1991) CBM CDTV: US$ 1000
(1992) Amiga 600: US$ 500
(1992) Amiga 4000: US$ 3,699
2009: Sam Flex complete Vento Bundle (acube): 675.60 EUR (about US$ 1000, today rate, incl VAT)
So given that the wages have doubled, you can compare the Sam with any of the mentioned old Amiga models, and you find that the Vento bundle is the cheapest of them all.
For the argument sake you could also add the fact that the average age of the target group have probably rised quite a bit. So there are more people in todays target group who actually have a decent job now than there was in 1987. Then many users got the Amiga founded by their own savings and some might get it founded by their parents.
Ok, I know that when the first Amigas was out, it was state of the art technology. But I still think that most users baught it for their own pleasure for the hobbist needs, rather than for buisness. And when we look back at the difficult years behind us, we all know that we cant expect to Amiga to be in front of the technology just over night.
So my point is this, Yes the SAM is expensive compared performance-vice to the PC's. But compared to the old days it is not, it just those damn PC's are sold in millions and because of that is dirt cheap.
I think if someone really wants an Amiga, they can afford to buy it. Its just a matter or priority.
-
Yes, an Amiga 500 was $600 in 1987 but it was cutting edge technology for the time.
Compare the price of a Sam -vs- what $600 will get you in an x86 PC today?
For giggles I looked to see what $600 could get you...
HP - Pavilion Desktop with AMD Athlon™ II X4 Quad-Core Processor
AMD Athlon™ II X4 620 quad-core processor; 6GB DDR2 SDRAM; DL DVD±RW/CD-RW drive; LightScribe technology; 640GB hard drive; Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
$579!
I'll stick with my Mac's, but I thought this interesting... Man PC prices have fallen out...
-
..... My 3ghz aros pc can run rings around ANY morph or amiga os machine, and it costs a tenth of the price of their a morph os or amiga os machine.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a morph or amiga os machine, I just refuse to pay so much for such slow aging hardware.
Steven
I didn't realize that you could get 3GHz AROS PC's for about $50, as the cost of a registered MorphOS MacMini is only about $500, but then your cost estimate was reversed wasn't it. Your 3GHz AROS PC really cost about ten times what the lowest priced MorphOS machine costs, as a few Efika's have been recently advertised at $225 to $250, including the registered license for MorphOS.
-
Yes you can get a 3ghz pc on ebay and other surplus sites if you know where to look... for 50$.
Go look, I see dell 2ghz machines for 50$ all the time, 3ghz, okay some go for 100$-200$ plus shipping now, but I did just get a 3ghz pc, 512megs of ram, 80 gig hard drive, built in sound, video and network for 50$ plus shipping, I can show you the invoice if you like, I was the only bidder, maybe it was a lucky bid but I see these deals all the time.
Do the math... 3ghz aros pc - 50$ plus shipping
Morph os machine - 500$ plus shipping
Amiga os machine - 800$ plus shipping
I won't even get into a debate on an efika board, Come on a 400mhz processor? I have thrown faster computers in the trash, why would I buy that? Oh, and then add the cost of os4.1 at 155$ plus a case and power supply, keyboard mouse, okay now we are over 500$ for a 400mhz novelty computer? No way man.
os4.x is doomed to failure unless they port it to faster hardware. Morph just got a lifeline in the form of mac ports, I hope morph ports to x86 next, I will be the first to buy either of them if they port to x86 or something at least approaching modern hardware.
I don't want to run 5 or 8 year old hardware just for an os. I want an os that takes advantage of modern speeds and hardware advancements.
You can sit with blinders on your eyes if you like, but mine are open.
Oh and BTW AROS is free... You can like me and many however, choose to support development in the form of bounties.
AND its open source...
Steven
-
Must have touched a nerve to get such a heated response.
I don't have blinders on, and have not bought a SAM to run AmigaOS4.1 for just the reasons that you have written, but I am also not interested in any $50 PC's and doubt very much that you find complete 3GHz PC's at that price "all the time".
I have a couple dozen computers here (mostly Amigas) and one of them is a 3.0GHz Quad Core PC that I have had for a while and I would gladly trade it for a decent spec'd fairly recent (read Intel) desktop Mac, but I am very happy to use my 1.5GHz G4 MacMini with registered MorphOS2.4 running on it, and plan to use it more and more for everyday stuff and some AmigaOS/MorphOS programming.
I don't disagree with your assertion that the pricing of ANY Amiga hardware is high and not comparable to hardware for other platforms. I also do not agree with the OP's attempt at logic, but for the Amiga fanatics, price is not an obstacle. Most of them are just happy to have any hardware to run their OS of choice on.
Edit: FYI, AmigaOS4.x does not run on the Efika, only MorphOS2.x, and as I stated in my post, there have been a couple Efika's with the full registered MorphOS2.4 license included offered for sale recently for between $225 to $250.
2nd Edit: I also forgot to say that if MorphOS, or AmigaOS ever get ported to modern hardware, I will be second in line, right behind you to buy it. AROS is a great idea, but it has not impressed me yet.
-
No nerves, just expanding my point, which we agree on I think.
I'd love a mac mini running morph-os just for the record, and I may buy a mac mini just to try morph on before deciding on plunking down the 250$ for a registered version. I've never had a mac but morph os is enough to entice me to buy one.
I got to try a friends pegasos machine and it was the best thing I've seen so far from next gen amiga type stuff, I just can't afford that or an aos machine right now. Because of this, I have tried and really fell in love with aros. It makes that 50$ pc a very exciting thing.
BTW yes the machine was 50$, but I did put in an aros supported soundcard and a nvidia video card with gpu, so I guess in total, I spent about 120$ on it.
You touched on simply enjoying your morph-os machine. That I think is the key. Amigas made computing an enjoyable experience. I am having lots of fun with a dedicated pc running amikit (straight boot to os 3.9 no windows but windows hosted) and My aros pc.
Perhaps you can't really put a price on that excitement and enjoyment, but all of us have budgets, I do what I can on mine.
Steven
-
Go look, I see dell 2ghz machines for 50$ all the time, 3ghz, okay some go for 100$-200$ plus shipping now, but I did just get a 3ghz pc, 512megs of ram, 80 gig hard drive, built in sound, video and network for 50$ plus shipping, I can show you the invoice if you like, I was the only bidder, maybe it was a lucky bid but I see these deals all the time.
Do the math... 3ghz aros pc - 50$ plus shipping
Morph os machine - 500$ plus shipping
Amiga os machine - 800$ plus shipping
While the cost of a AROS capable maschine is indeed very low, your cited cost for a MorphOS maschine is a bit exaggerated. You can run it on any Mac mini G4. Not too sure how much a good deal precisely is, but I heard of many ppl getting a Mac mini quite below 200 US$. For getting a taste of MorphOS you don't need to register, so for less than 200 US$ you will get a system to play around with. If you like it you surely have to add the 150 EUR for the registration (which i US$ is unfortunately a lot especially since the US$ seems to lower its worth even more...).
But if you don't like it dump it off to ebay again, the whole experiment will have costed you some eby fee and teh risk to get a lower sale price than you initially paid for. But prbably your expenses will not exceed 50US$ for testing it.
Anyway trying AROS is for free (give you have a pc around).
I won't even get into a debate on an efika board, Come on a 400mhz processor? I have thrown faster computers in the trash, why would I buy that?
The Efika is definitely not a power house, but a nice little toy which runs surprisingly good. It is best suited for some geeky rojects, furthermore I don't know how much the kWh is charged from your electricity provider, but @ ~0.20 EUR/kWh it saves quite some money to power the Efika on instead of a more powerful maschine (the Efika consumes less energy than my Eee and is fun to use - a thing which is not too true for my Eee). So the Efika is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but it is not always bunt stupid to use.
-
Lets put our cards on the table here and just say it as it is..... The Sam motherboard IS extremely overpriced and extremely under powered .
Fine , everyone is free to spend their money on what they like , but there is absolutely no way to justify the price of the Sam motherboard and I for one would never buy it .
Lets be honest here , its not like its C= Amiga hardware or anything , its just a stupidly overpriced and outdated motherboard which the developers of Amiga OS 4 decided to work with . The motherboard has no value whatsoever .
-
Wow! You know the Amiga platform is prettymuch toast when 9 out of 10 posts on an Amiga forum defend PC hardware over Amiga(ish) flavours.
To those who say "If you dont like it, dont buy it..."
...people aren't, that's THE* problem.
*platforms future; userbase growth, profitability, developer support, etc.
-
I think we can all agree that if for the cost we were offered a fast , modern and complete system* instead of just an outdated motherboard , then many more people would be buying new Amiga hardware .
* When i say complete system , i mean something that is well presented , just like an A3000 or A4000 was . Its own case (Amiga branded , Not a standard Mini ATX) , an Amiga branded keyboard , printed manuals , etc..
-
If AmigaOS ran on X86 you'd get more people trying it for sure. You wouldn't have to run out and buy special hardware just to try the OS. You could even run it in a VirtualBox/VMWare/Parallels window. €1000 just to try, on a 1999 spec computer that can't run any other OS!
-
You think the SAM is to expensive?
I thought this was going to be a thread about Amiga HW.
-
Well, you can get a Lada (http://hsudarren.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/lada1.jpg) or you can get Mercedes (http://www.drivearabia.com/mercedesbenz/thumbnails/mercedesbenz190e8493thum.jpg)... both doing the same work, but in one you are feeling home... in the other not. But that is a personal decision.
-
-Buy a PC and install AROS
Or go dumpster diving for a AROS box. Couple of years ago we did a poll on AROS-Exec.org on what speed the average box found thrown away was more then enough for AROS. Speed that up by two years, your probably finding 1.5GHz to 2GHz in the trash now.
-
Ah, but a Mercedes will get you comfortable cruising speeds well in excess of 200 Km/hr, you get what you pay for in a Mercedes. A Sam board is more a Trabant at a Mercedes price...
(http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/theoryandpractice/trabant-thumb.jpg)
Well, you can get a Lada (http://hsudarren.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/lada1.jpg) or you can get Mercedes (http://www.drivearabia.com/mercedesbenz/thumbnails/mercedesbenz190e8493thum.jpg)... both doing the same work, but in one you are feeling home... in the other not. But that is a personal decision.
-
Just thought id mention:
G4 Mac minis are £50-150, and supported by morphOS now. eMac Support is also in the works, and those are better machines than the mac mini by miles AND much cheaper still.
Why bother even arguing over the price of amiga hardware now? The best modern amigas are now the cheapest of the lot, and there's no point in dropping a fortune on a SAM or second hand A1 when you can get this. Hell, i'm actually worried for the OS4 devs because their market has just been wiped out overnight, they need to release fro the apple hardware AND FAST - or else they'll be having an imagination christmas.
-
Grr, I'm sorry but the prices of the Amiga hardware are completely insane. I'm not sure even if I did have the money I would end up spending the money on that stuff anymore. I guess when I used to have a really cushy job that I made a lot of money in I would have. Not anymore. The poverty that 5 years have shown me tells me that I need more performance bang for my buck. Screw novelty, it's all about the here and now.
-
You think the SAM is to expensive?
Here are some facts to consider:
Average salery in US (source http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html)
1986: 17,321; 1987: 18,426; 1988: 19,334; -----> 2006: 38,651; 2007: 40,405; 2008: 41,334
Numbers in US$
The statistics shows that the wages have more than doubled since the Amiga was in the position of selling lots of machines.
Now the prices for Amiga Hardware:
(1985) Amiga 1000: US$ 1,300
(1987) Amiga 2000: US$ 1,500
(1987) Amiga 500: £ 359.90 (about USD $600, todays rate)
(1990) Amiga 3000: US$ 4,100 (monitor incl.)
(1991) CBM CDTV: US$ 1000
(1992) Amiga 600: US$ 500
(1992) Amiga 4000: US$ 3,699
2009: Sam Flex complete Vento Bundle (acube): 675.60 EUR (about US$ 1000, today rate, incl VAT)
So given that the wages have doubled, you can compare the Sam with any of the mentioned old Amiga models, and you find that the Vento bundle is the cheapest of them all.
For the argument sake you could also add the fact that the average age of the target group have probably rised quite a bit. So there are more people in todays target group who actually have a decent job now than there was in 1987. Then many users got the Amiga founded by their own savings and some might get it founded by their parents.
Ok, I know that when the first Amigas was out, it was state of the art technology. But I still think that most users baught it for their own pleasure for the hobbist needs, rather than for buisness. And when we look back at the difficult years behind us, we all know that we cant expect to Amiga to be in front of the technology just over night.
So my point is this, Yes the SAM is expensive compared performance-vice to the PC's. But compared to the old days it is not, it just those damn PC's are sold in millions and because of that is dirt cheap.
I think if someone really wants an Amiga, they can afford to buy it. Its just a matter or priority.
Interesting bunch of non relevant ideas. Try comparing the price to other motherboards that are available NOW. AND look at how old most of technology on the SAM truly is!
-
Grr, I'm sorry but the prices of the Amiga hardware are completely insane. I'm not sure even if I did have the money I would end up spending the money on that stuff anymore. I guess when I used to have a really cushy job that I made a lot of money in I would have. Not anymore. The poverty that 5 years have shown me tells me that I need more performance bang for my buck. Screw novelty, it's all about the here and now.
This. you might get a slightly-too-expensive deal on ebay or elsewhere IF YOU ARE LUCKY. Unlucky? bend over boy, you gonna pay £160 for 40mhz.
Seriously, boycott that nonsense. You wanna buy amigas? you got two sensible choices:
buy a 500 or 1200 for as cheap as you can get (£30 or so), use it for games and periot software.
buy a mac mini and run MorphOS.
THERE. ARE. NO. OTHER. SANE. OPTIONS.:madashell:
-
eMac Support is also in the works, and those are better machines than the mac mini by miles
eMacs aren't really all that much better than MacMinis, they're pretty close. The lack of 50lbs of CRT makes the Mini a better choice IMO, and I have a few eMacs and Minis here.
The eMacs definitely are cheaper when you can find them, though.
edit: have to say, though, my favorites are the G4 iMacs. LCD on a stick in a gumdrop.
-
Yeah, I love the lampshade ones. You can paint the bottom part in a red/white chequered pattern and call it a boing ball!
eMacs aren't really all that much better than MacMinis, they're pretty close. The lack of 50lbs of CRT makes the Mini a better choice IMO, and I have a few eMacs and Minis here.
The eMacs definitely are cheaper when you can find them, though.
edit: have to say, though, my favorites are the G4 iMacs. LCD on a stick in a gumdrop.
-
Yeah, I love the lampshade ones. You can paint the bottom part in a red/white chequered pattern and call it a boing ball!
I thought the same thing, but IIRC, when I was checking which Macs might have similar specs to the MacMini G4, I think the lampshade iMacs did not have Radeon graphics cards, which would rule them out from running MorphOS at any time in the near future (unless someone has been working on other graphics drivers without telling anyone about them).
-
Well, heck's whistles. Good thing I had no MorphOS aspirations.
-
For me it's always been iMac G3, eMac, and power mac G4. Lampshades are cool though.
It's funny how they thought second hand apple hardware was the best option. But then again, ones that survive the first part of the bathtub curve are incredibly reliable. My iMac G3 fell off a desk RUNNING, with a cd in the drive, and it didn't even crash.
I could see this old apple stuff outlasting every other computer from the period.