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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 07:54:50 PM

Title: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 07:54:50 PM
Hello

I have a indivision AGA 1200, i am very happy with it. But i have a little problem. When i turn on the machine, i get small graphical glitches in highgfx mode. They disappear after 5min when the machine gets warm. This only happen in 1024x768 highgfx mode. Im positive that the indivison is fitted firmly enough.

I have a amiga inc. a1200 2b motherboard. The indivision is a late batch, sanded and has 1.5firmware.

Some pictures:
(http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt29/toumannen/2.jpg)
(http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt29/toumannen/1.jpg)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on October 29, 2009, 08:59:24 PM
One for Jens, perhaps?

I would have thought that any glitching would be more likely to happen when the machine warms up, rather than before it does.

Perhaps one of the pins isn't making the best contact and only improves once thermal expansion has kicked in?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: F0LLETT on October 29, 2009, 09:20:19 PM
Use a lower screen mode, see if it happens then.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on October 29, 2009, 09:22:13 PM
In my last scandoubler this problems are generated by hot but indivision aga dont generate enouht hot i think.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: F0LLETT on October 29, 2009, 09:31:04 PM
Quote from: kickstart;527747
In my last scandoubler this problems are generated by hot but indivision aga dont generate enouht hot i think.


Hence I asked him to change to a lower screen mode. If it is heat then it will glitch on higher resolutions.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on October 29, 2009, 09:35:33 PM
@follet

Thats right but this resolution seems like a PAL one.

@mr byte

Are you using some application like blazewcp or fblit? Try to boot without startup-sequence.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 09:46:20 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;527746
Use a lower screen mode, see if it happens then.


Ok, i tried every screenmode i could find, and everyone works ok, but not highgfx mode. When i turn on my miggy it works fine for 10sec and then i get the glitches and after 5-10min its gone...very strange.

I dont have fblit installed, but i installed blazewcp today. But the glitches have lasted since i got the indivision 4 weeks ago.

I will try to boot without startup-sequence. I just need to wait for the machine to cool down :)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 10:07:03 PM
Quote from: Mr_Byte;527756
Ok, i tried every screenmode i could find, and everyone works ok, but not highgfx mode. When i turn on my miggy it works fine for 10sec and then i get the glitches and after 5-10min its gone...very strange.

I dont have fblit installed, but i installed blazewcp today. But the glitches have lasted since i got the indivision 4 weeks ago.

I will try to boot without startup-sequence. I just need to wait for the machine to cool down :)


When i try to boot without startup-sequence everything is okay, but thats because highgfx mode is not loaded.

This isnt really a big problem for me. I can use my miggy many hour in row without no problem. Its just the first minuts when i turn my miggy on. But i like to have everyting in order.

Can it be the powersupply? I use a old a500 one, maybe it need some time to work properly?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on October 29, 2009, 10:14:28 PM
I dont care about power supply :-(

Are you using the latest firmware?

My indivision runs good but im not try the highgfx mode (my a1200 is totally disassembly at the moment).
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 10:21:07 PM
Quote from: kickstart;527765
I dont care about power supply :-(

Are you using the latest firmware?

My indivision runs good but im not try the highgfx mode (my a1200 is totally disassembly at the moment).


Yes im using the 1.5 firmware. But im lying to you guys, its not only in highgfx mode, but also in multiscan mode. So its seems glitches come when i use demanding screensmodes when the machine is cold :roflmao:
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on October 29, 2009, 10:37:26 PM
And... just for test... a card resettlement?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on October 29, 2009, 10:38:52 PM
Quote from: kickstart;527771
And... just for test... a card resettlement?


It does sound like something that might be caused by slight movement during thermal expansion.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 10:43:39 PM
Originally Posted by kickstart  
And... just for test... a card resettlement?
----------------------------------------------

I have already tried twice. I really dont like to take it in and out too many times. Im afraid the indivision will be broken. I pressed it really hard Both times (i heard the click noise). No change, same problem.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 10:46:50 PM
Quote from: Karlos;527772
It does sound like something that might be caused by slight movement during thermal expansion.


What do you propose? Try to take it off and install the indivision again?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on October 29, 2009, 10:47:21 PM
Out of ideas today =(

Maybe Jens read this thread and give a solution for all with glitches problems.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 10:49:40 PM
Quote from: kickstart;527777
Out of ideas today =(

Maybe Jens read this thread and give a solution for all with glitches problems.


Yes i hope so. Thank you very much for trying to help. Going to bed now.

ZZZZZZZZzzzzz
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on October 29, 2009, 10:50:30 PM
Quote from: Mr_Byte;527776
What do you propose? Try to take it off and install the indivision again?


Actually, I'd suggest you leave it. You don't want to exert repeated mechanical stress from adding and removing the hardware.

If the problem goes away once the system has warmed up, live with it until someone qualified (Jens himself does post here) can have a go at answering your question.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 29, 2009, 10:52:08 PM
Quote from: Karlos;527780
Actually, I'd suggest you leave it. You don't want to exert repeated mechanical stress from adding and removing the hardware.

If the problem goes away once the system has warmed up, live with it until someone qualified (Jens himself does post here) can have a go at answering your question.


Sounds like a good idea. Thank you very much for trying to help. Have a good night.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: NovaCoder on October 30, 2009, 12:10:30 AM
Jens has already commented....


Maybe I should add this epic thread (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=41376&highlight=strange+indivision) to my Signature ;)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: rkauer on October 30, 2009, 12:48:01 AM
Glitches, huh? http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=43117

 [EDIT] Damn, beated to it by novacoder!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: brianb on October 30, 2009, 01:28:10 AM
I second the just leaving it be...  I know on my Indivision it seemed to take a few days to settle into place.   Some odd issues at first but then it was fine.  

For your setup, it certainly sounds like a thermal issue and messing with it runs the risk of making it worse.   Just consider the first few minutes warm up time, and treat her like a historic car.   ;-)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 30, 2009, 11:53:55 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;527787
Jens has already commented....


Maybe I should add this epic thread (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=41376&highlight=strange+indivision) to my Signature ;)


Thanks mate!

I`ve read the thread now and it is good to see that im not alone. Im gonna try to shorting out E127R with a screw driver tonight and see if that solves the problem. Finger crossed.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Tension on October 30, 2009, 01:42:30 PM
It could be the power supply.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: rkauer on October 30, 2009, 05:26:31 PM
Quote from: Tension;527846
It could be the power supply.

 Nope, could not be.

 The Indivision itself have an internal step-down voltage regulator. Only if the +5V rail in the Amiga decay to less than 3.3V the power supply will become an issue.

 Which, of course, will make the Amiga to not boot at all.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 31, 2009, 06:55:42 PM
I can gladly inform you guys that everything works perfect now :)

I used my new cheap soldering iron to short out the E127R resistor and now it works like a dream. The picture is crisp and clear like never before and no need for warm up.

Some pictures:

My workbench/kitchen:
(http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt29/toumannen/IMG_6983.jpg)

My 1337 skillz with the soldering iron: :roflmao:
(http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt29/toumannen/IMG_6984.jpg)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: klx300r on October 31, 2009, 07:07:26 PM
@ Mr-Byte

awesome pics..thanks! my 1D4 MB never had such issues but it's good info to know :-)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on October 31, 2009, 07:17:17 PM
Quote from: Mr_Byte;527985
I can gladly inform you guys that everything works perfect now :)

I used my new cheap soldering iron to short out the E127R resistor and now it works like a dream. The picture is crisp and clear like never before and no need for warm up.


Good stuff :drink:

Quote
My 1337 skillz with the soldering iron: :roflmao:


There's nothing wrong with that. I've seen far worse ;)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on October 31, 2009, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: klx300r;527987
@ Mr-Byte

awesome pics..thanks! my 1D4 MB never had such issues but it's good info to know :-)


Thanks!

Quote from: Karlos;527989
Good stuff :drink:



There's nothing wrong with that. I've seen far worse ;)


Good to hear. This was my first time with the iron, so i was a little nervous.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Damion on November 01, 2009, 06:19:59 AM
Quote from: Mr_Byte;527985
The picture is crisp and clear like never before and no need for warm up.


Do you mean there has been some general improvement in image quality, in addition to HighGFX/Multiscan modes being stable when cold?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on November 01, 2009, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Damion;528028
Do you mean there has been some general improvement in image quality, in addition to HighGFX/Multiscan modes being stable when cold?


It may be a placebo effect, but yes i think the image was more blurry before. Maybe its only me ;)

I tried with some before and after pictures:

Before with some glitches:
(http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt29/toumannen/2.jpg)

After:
(http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt29/toumannen/after.jpg)

When i see it like this, i dont see much differnce.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on November 01, 2009, 01:33:17 PM
Can you get  your monitor to display 1024x768 without any upscaling? Depending on the native resolution of the display, you might get a bit of a black border, but it should be sharper.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on November 01, 2009, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: Karlos;528058
Can you get  your monitor to display 1024x768 without any upscaling? Depending on the native resolution of the display, you might get a bit of a black border, but it should be sharper.


hmm it's actually a native 1024x768 monitor. To be exactly, it is a lcd tv with vga input. When i first tried to connect it with the indivision, it had a 1cm black border to the right. So i used the indivision tool to stretch the image. Did i do something wrong?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on November 01, 2009, 02:07:40 PM
No, I guess not. I thought you might have a monitor that has a different native resolution. LCD's aren't known for their ability to scale non-native resolutions well.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: F0LLETT on November 01, 2009, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Mr_Byte;528062
hmm it's actually a native 1024x768 monitor. To be exactly, it is a lcd tv with vga input. When i first tried to connect it with the indivision, it had a 1cm black border to the right. So i used the indivision tool to stretch the image. Did i do something wrong?


Use the LCD's auto setting, to try and get rid of the border down the side.
Stretching in the Indivision config, may cause it to not look 100% right.

Karlos is right, all LCD's look crap unless in the native resolution.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on November 01, 2009, 02:48:47 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;528068
Use the LCD's auto setting, to try and get rid of the border down the side.
Stretching in the Indivision config, may cause it to not look 100% right.

Karlos is right, all LCD's look crap unless in the native resolution.


I tried to use the auto setting on the lcd, but it is not good enough. I must use the indivision tool to get rid of the black border. I dont think this lcd is the best, but im happy with the picture quality.

Im thinking about to move my lcd tv over to my bedrom and get a nice little crt monitor for my miggy. I think this will give me a more amigaish picture in the games.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: F0LLETT on November 01, 2009, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: Mr_Byte;528075
I tried to use the auto setting on the lcd, but it is not good enough. I must use the indivision tool to get rid of the black border. I dont think this lcd is the best, but im happy with the picture quality.

Im thinking about to move my lcd tv over to my bedrom and get a nice little crt monitor for my miggy. I think this will give me a more amigaish picture in the games.


Aye, it is true, nothing beats a CRT when it comes to using lots of different resolutions.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Mr_Byte on November 01, 2009, 05:38:04 PM
Changed my lcd tv with a old lcd monitor. This time the auto-config are working perfectly. Check this tread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49942

I like to take pictures :)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on November 01, 2009, 08:14:07 PM
Seems clear at least in this photo, lucky you with this lcd monitors, my lcd native resolution is 1280x1024 too high for highfx =(
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: NovaCoder on November 01, 2009, 11:19:57 PM
Quote from: kickstart;528105
Seems clear at least in this photo, lucky you with this lcd monitors, my lcd native resolution is 1280x1024 too high for highfx =(


Yep you need HighGFX Extreme ;)


Hopefully it will see the light of day soon!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: Karlos on November 01, 2009, 11:41:17 PM
Quote from: kickstart;528105
Seems clear at least in this photo, lucky you with this lcd monitors, my lcd native resolution is 1280x1024 too high for highfx =(


Does it have a non-scaling option?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: kickstart on November 02, 2009, 12:17:54 AM
@karlos

Monitor show all resolutions scaled like dithering.

@novacoder

Thats true? 1280x1024 on aga amigas can be cool, but poor chip ram heh.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA 1200 small glitches
Post by: NovaCoder on November 02, 2009, 02:17:18 AM
Quote from: kickstart;528124
@karlos
Thats true? 1280x1024 on aga amigas can be cool, but poor chip ram heh.


Yep, don't expect it to be very fast either ;)